EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 107
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pebble444
Italy2503 Posts
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
On December 20 2012 17:04 pebble444 wrote: How do i get to the point that i can actually access the fish ladder channel? i have account from long time(1+ years), i never play on it(my teamates don' t have fish) but i want to play on it. So, whats the real deal? i have mini Launcher and all set up. You need to be in a game for 12 hours. This can be accumulated game time but the easy way is to open up some UMS map and leave it running overnight. | ||
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fold
Australia665 Posts
On December 20 2012 18:49 Birdie wrote: You need to be in a game for 12 hours. This can be accumulated game time but the easy way is to open up some UMS map and leave it running overnight. Type /lc in a channel and it will tell you how many hours, minutes and seconds you have left. | ||
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pebble444
Italy2503 Posts
Will try to do as suggested and leave UMS map open when i go sleep and see if it works | ||
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
On December 21 2012 01:30 pebble444 wrote: Thanx Fold and Birdie :D , that command was useful, however it doesn' t seem to be accurate, i went in a game for 30 minutes and after still displayed something like 12 ?? 43 ?? etc. Will try to do as suggested and leave UMS map open when i go sleep and see if it works I think it takes a while to update. | ||
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thezanursic
5500 Posts
And when should I stop making them? 3 base saturation? | ||
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stambe
Bulgaria497 Posts
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puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
On December 24 2012 00:59 thezanursic wrote: How many probes should I have as protoss? And when should I stop making them? 3 base saturation? I have this question as well. Mechanically I can pull off making probes almost non-stop. I do not know when I am actually supposed to stop. | ||
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pebble444
Italy2503 Posts
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thezanursic
5500 Posts
On December 24 2012 03:19 stambe wrote: If you are asking this question, then the answer for you is never stop probe production. When you get more experience you will know when to cut probes and when not to. Until then never stop probe production - it will give you the best results + the constant probe production will embed in your mind and it will become 2nd nature when you start to cut probes so you will never forget to build probes and it will become mechanical while you think about other more important things during the game.. Hope this helps, if not i hope some protoss will give you tips, since i dont play P and i managed SCVs instinctively. My probe production is instinctive... Please do not assume something that may or may not be true. A lot of people say that SC2 doesn't give you any edge, but it does. I have been playing BW for the past 4 months and since the start I have had instinctive probe production. I have learned builds and strategies. I also made up my own rules when to stop building probes, but these timings and numbers are probably incorrect. For example I played a C- Terran today. I won. He was very aggressive all the time, but because I was so focused on not losing probes and macroing when we ended on a 5 v 2 base situation I found that I had built to many probes (at least 15 to much). It wasn't that big a problem since I just suicided them to max out and kill him, but I did make a mistake and it made me question when to actually stop building them. If I wasn't under so much pressure he literally kept attacking me with 3 different dropships and because I was so focused I FORGOT TO STOP building them of course I would usually stop a lot earlier if the game wasn't as such. EDIT: Ohh I'm sorry for being overly defensive in my response, but you literally made an assumption and you didn't provide any useful infromation. [spoiler] If you are asking this question, then the answer for you is never stop probe production [/spoiler] And your response doesn't make sense anyway even if I was at the point where my nexsai (?) wouldn't be particularly active after I would improve my mechanics and surpass this particular phase it would be natural for me to ask this question and that's why I'm doing it because I am and I have been for a long time without worker production problems. As I said above I have tried to find any information regarding this, but I couldn't. I am sure that my instinct of when to stop making probes is not terribly off, but it can surely be improved and it can undoubtedly be given a certain timing or a particular thing to look out for to know when I am on the mark (3 base saturation for instance). | ||
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thezanursic
5500 Posts
On December 24 2012 04:27 puppykiller wrote: I have this question as well. Mechanically I can pull off making probes almost non-stop. I do not know when I am actually supposed to stop. THIS. This is how I feel. I NEVER had a problem with probe production, but knowing when to stop is another. | ||
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Forcewater
United Kingdom206 Posts
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thezanursic
5500 Posts
On December 24 2012 06:53 Forcewater wrote: Why don't you pick a number or a time to stop building workers and try that out for a few games? Because that would take A LOT of time. I can literally ask get the near optimal answer which is probably not to far from mine be sure about it and stop questioning it (which is probably worse than actually not building enough or over building them) and use the practice time on things that don't have an easy answer. | ||
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
So if you have 12 gateways (or your objective is to have 12 gateways) producing 4 goons and 6 zealots and 2 HT constantly, then you will need a certain amount of probes mining gas, and mining minerals. This is part of the reason why Koreans and perhaps some of the foreigners (good koreans and foreigners that is) are able to simply outproduce you all the time: their economy management is such that they always have just enough workers to achieve whatever they need, no more, no less. | ||
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pebble444
Italy2503 Posts
 vs  ). And not even. So once you learn to get to late game with a healthy economy, (in what becomes a macro late game) the fun part starts. The more your opponent is farther away from your skill level (better worse Makes no difference), the less likely it is that you will get to late game. So the advice to make constantly workers until 60 applies more to when you play macro game and versus your skill level (say with a friend). Again its situational. Say you play with a friend who (PvT) likes to send a zealot early on. In the first case you decide to go rax FE. The standard by the book says to get depot(or refinery first depends) at 16.then make a marine and a bunker at 18 (you make marine and then scv) In those cases, with experience, it is good to not make that worker when you are on 16 supply and make a bunker instead, and start the scv after the bunker. Or your friend likes to go reaver. You plant down a cc (assuming here siege expo) get that engeneering bay after your CC is down, before making that extra scv. So your turret is up faster. So he has to come in your base from a different angle, so instead of getting 10 scv kills he gets 4 lets say. Cutting that one or two workers effectivly saved you more. What i' m growing to understand is Every game is different and you should cut workers and make them differently. This depends on: Your build. Aggressivness: how much you plan to be aggresive, or your opponent is being. Map: If you want to get a better econ the walling off and and making chokepoints smaller, you can defend with a smaller army, thus you can invest more in scvs. Your opponents eco Two basic things that are more important than making workers until 60 supply: in general, priority should go to not missing a single round of workers until you are at 30, unless there is some cheese going on; This is of the utmost importance. When that zealot gets into your base, while you are microing that marine, missing a single round of scv can be the difference beetwen having those 500 minerals or gas in the mid game to make that extra tank or vulture or goliath or whatever that wins you the game. The earlier you make the worker the more it will generate income for you. One of the first workers you start with is much more valuable than a worker you made at 120 supply. Because it mines for longer. That doesn' t mean after 30 or 60 supply you should not make workers for the rest of the game. (even if you don t lose any workers) it simply means Another tip for terrans: every worker that is idle for quite a while is a worker that doesn' t exist. This more early one. Late game you may have more important priorities. But early game send those idle scv' s back to work! This may seem obvious, but it is actually overseen from low level players. And high level terrans do this constantly. (that being said, in the mid-game having 2 or 3 scv' s in key spots to constantly make supply depot for me makes all the difference, makes it easier to make depots and tech structures quickly and reflexevly) What i' m finding more and more is to cut 1 or 2 rounds of scv, for different reasons. Maybe i want to get 2 more siege tanks before securing my third. Maybe i want to get 1 or 2 more factories up, and i stop making scvs for 2 rounds to have money to make them. Maybe i want to get an updrage, maybe i want to build a cc. After this one should keep making workers, and cutting them in strategic moments. So you must Un-learn what you ve learnt till know. Again all this advice is situational, so as far as i m concerned cutting workers is different on every map, every Match-up, your build/strategy for that game. All this is really basic but it is extremly important. A good player has good fundamentals. A quote from SpiningPanda' s stream, when he was examining some pro games: " i' ve noticed that pros always cut workers in specific moments, to build structures or units or tech, and resume producing them after" Birdie that thread is about Zerg' s economy which is completly different from the Terran one and Protoss. I don' t even want to get I hope some better player than me can provide more insight. | ||
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
Birdie that thread is about Zerg' s economy which is completly different from the Terran one and Protoss. I don' t even want to get It includes the Terran numbers too. I don't know if any foreign resource has the Protoss ones listed but it shouldn't be too hard to work them out. They're very useful for knowing exactly how many workers you need and when you can cut workers and so on. | ||
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stambe
Bulgaria497 Posts
On December 24 2012 06:43 thezanursic wrote: My probe production is instinctive... Please do not assume something that may or may not be true. A lot of people say that SC2 doesn't give you any edge, but it does. I have been playing BW for the past 4 months and since the start I have had instinctive probe production. I have learned builds and strategies. I also made up my own rules when to stop building probes, but these timings and numbers are probably incorrect. For example I played a C- Terran today. I won. He was very aggressive all the time, but because I was so focused on not losing probes and macroing when we ended on a 5 v 2 base situation I found that I had built to many probes (at least 15 to much). It wasn't that big a problem since I just suicided them to max out and kill him, but I did make a mistake and it made me question when to actually stop building them. If I wasn't under so much pressure he literally kept attacking me with 3 different dropships and because I was so focused I FORGOT TO STOP building them of course I would usually stop a lot earlier if the game wasn't as such. EDIT: Ohh I'm sorry for being overly defensive in my response, but you literally made an assumption and you didn't provide any useful infromation. [spoiler] If you are asking this question, then the answer for you is never stop probe production [/spoiler] And your response doesn't make sense anyway even if I was at the point where my nexsai (?) wouldn't be particularly active after I would improve my mechanics and surpass this particular phase it would be natural for me to ask this question and that's why I'm doing it because I am and I have been for a long time without worker production problems. As I said above I have tried to find any information regarding this, but I couldn't. I am sure that my instinct of when to stop making probes is not terribly off, but it can surely be improved and it can undoubtedly be given a certain timing or a particular thing to look out for to know when I am on the mark (3 base saturation for instance). Well in 05-07 when someone asked how many workers they needed, and when to stop making them the answer was exactly the one i gave you. Also i never mentioned SC2 in my post so i dont know why you get defensive about it. In the game you gave us as example i think it shows its better to have more than less if you cant find the best number of probes for every situation which is pretty hard. So go for more if you are not sure about the exact numbers. The question you ask is not very relevant until you hit the very high ranks like B+ and above since there are probably alot of other things to improve before that takes precedence. And yes that was the answer for that again in 05-07  . Like the posts above me state there is a terran and zerg numbers for scv/drones required for each unit to be produced but i've never seen a protoss one yet. Also i would like to know how to count workers since ive never figured it out, and only used visual conformation whenever i tried to asses do i have enough workers or not. It depends alot on what are you trying to do - if want to hit a specific timing or get some upgrade or building faster you may need to cut some probes but the exact minimal amount and then resume production just enough to support the new gates/upgrades, etc.If you want to know about base saturation, well it goes like this i think: good saturation - 2 probes per mineral optimal saturation - 2.5 probes per mineral max saturation - 3 probes per mineral (i think after 3 per min there so little gain if any so its not applicable in a game) Also APM plays a huge role in correctly determining how many probes you have since managing eco perfectly takes a lot of attention and mind load (at least for me) so it difficult to do other things perfectly as well while you maintain focus on eco. Good mechanics is the way to the top but thats the hardest thing to learn in this game. If you have 300 apm with decent multitask its so much easier to learn and execute builds and have time to asses situations, in this case do i have enough probes and did i reached the desired number while you subconsciously and automatically do other stuff. Wow thats a lot of babbeling on my part, i hope i contributed something to the topic. | ||
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EchOne
United States2906 Posts
Is Brood War time the same as real time? | ||
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traceurling
United States1240 Posts
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
i don't remember how much faster tho lol | ||
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