EPTDoes this have any sort of advantage?
To me it seems +1 attack would be better as its cheaper and aids u in killing units more efficiently.
Zerg Carapace
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RowdierBob
Australia13295 Posts
Does this have any sort of advantage? To me it seems +1 attack would be better as its cheaper and aids u in killing units more efficiently. | ||
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Zerg0
149 Posts
I reckon it does help more than melee because your #1 goal for lings is to get 'em to the target, usually if your lings have reached their target, they cause dmg no matter what, getting 'em there is the problem without being shot up. Also, carapace helps with lurkers and hydras too, since they probably want to make sure their lurkers have a better chance when running up to the MM and tanks. I would go carapace first so my lings/hydra/lurk all get the upgrade, and then get melee. | ||
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SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
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Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
Say lurkers for example: 2 shots unless terran has 3 armor when you have +1 1 or 2 shots less vs tank when you have +2 I think..? Anyway, just micro, so you don't need carapace ;D I think most zergs upgrade it because they like ultra and when they get to hive having 4 armor ultra's really fast is good Oo; | ||
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SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13295 Posts
On June 28 2004 10:04 SoMuchBetter wrote: anyway, who cares, just double upgrade your shit and it all gets done =( Maybe on LT, but im thinking on something with a little less gas. | ||
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Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
Personally attack only helps in limited situations. True if a T gets armor then you rather need it as hydras do quite a bit less damage to marines and lurkers don't even kill them in 2 hits anymore. But if you have armor and a T gets armor or is slower on upgrading then you stand to benefit as they will be doing 20% less damage to your units. I personally think armor is the most useful of the three upgrades, but it really depends on what you are doing. If you are playing on low econ getting to 0/2 and using lings/few lurkers with defiler support and scourge backup for SV is probably your best bet. | ||
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Mydnyte
3306 Posts
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Zerg0
149 Posts
After your first few harasses, a good terran will be totally immune to further muta harass, so then its time to start going lurk/hydra/ling or tech ultra/ling/defiler. No one I know upgrades air attack/defense because mutas are only used so u can expand urself and get a breath of fresh air. Why mutas are only temporarily is because good terrans, once stabilized, have enough turret, 1 bunk w/ 3 marines, and can irridiate the hell outta ur mutas. | ||
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Mydnyte
3306 Posts
But of course, if you don't macro it/micro it/use it properly you're fucked in every hole possible. | ||
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Zerg0
149 Posts
Also, can you send me that replay cuz I'm sure Boxer did something that made him lose. | ||
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SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
if terran goes mech, go pure mutalisk with upgraded carapace. | ||
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Mydnyte
3306 Posts
On June 28 2004 19:55 Zerg0 wrote: Yeah well Boxer can nuke rush and win, but I doubt few on this board would suggest that strategy. The safest route is just to use them temporarily as a containment mechanism where you can harass and expand without worries. Also, can you send me that replay cuz I'm sure Boxer did something that made him lose. Didn't say I had the replay, I did see it though. But when I quit, all replays = gone. And it was in 1.09 I believe. Long ass time ago. | ||
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Mydnyte
3306 Posts
On June 28 2004 19:59 SoMuchBetter wrote: i recommend it if terran goes mech, go pure mutalisk with upgraded carapace. This strategy is common sense, any other strategy against pure mech terran can be suicide. Mutas are the answer against mech, especially with armor upgs. | ||
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Zerg0
149 Posts
stop changing situations that rarely happen, in fact, i'll do it too I RECOMMEND IT!!! GO PURE MUTAS IF TERRAN MASSES SCV!!!! | ||
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SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
Not that he was talking about Flyer Carapace, but for the people who think going muta sucks, it doesn't. When they get that +1 attack, 24 mutas and some lings can tear ass on a terran. If they can get their +1 attack for mutas before you get your +1 attack for marines, you're going to have a hard time, especially if they bring scourge or know how to micro out an irridiated muta later in the game, if you even last that long | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13295 Posts
On June 29 2004 10:25 hasuwar wrote: Not that he was talking about Flyer Carapace, but for the people who think going muta sucks, it doesn't. When they get that +1 attack, 24 mutas and some lings can tear ass on a terran. If they can get their +1 attack for mutas before you get your +1 attack for marines, you're going to have a hard time, especially if they bring scourge or know how to micro out an irridiated muta later in the game, if you even last that long Any decent terran would have a shitload of mnm and vessel and own this =[ Save this strat as a party trick. | ||
ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
Anyway, back to carapace. I like to do that vs toss no matter what, to counter +1 attack. Many toss players time their expands just when they get +1 attack, or go for zling burners (+1 speedlots). If you cancel out this advantage you'll take the toss by surprise and often leave him clueless. | ||
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Dave[9]
United States2365 Posts
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
On June 29 2004 10:30 RowdierBob wrote: Any decent terran would have a shitload of mnm and vessel and own this =[ Save this strat as a party trick. I am a decent terran, and it's happend to me. And a shitload of MnM doesn't always do the trick, I'm telling you. | ||
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
On June 29 2004 14:47 Dave307 wrote: Its the same thing with zvz, when you upgrade carapace for the first lvl, its better than +1 attack, but if you continue more, i think the attack would run over the defence. Somebody probably know this better than me, but as far as I've been told over the years, attack grades does not affect splash damage, so with armor muta bounce (9-3-1) goes down to (8-2-0) and etc. | ||
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Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
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Mydnyte
3306 Posts
On June 29 2004 01:56 Zerg0 wrote: if 1 out of 50 terrans i played went mech i would rip off my clothes and run happily across my beloved state of virginia to bathe at a nearby christian well. stop changing situations that rarely happen, in fact, i'll do it too I RECOMMEND IT!!! GO PURE MUTAS IF TERRAN MASSES SCV!!!! AND YOU'RE STILL AN IDIOT ANYWAYS! OMGWTFBBQ  | ||
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Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
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Mydnyte
3306 Posts
Great shit. So good. Delicious, really.  | ||
Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On June 29 2004 15:09 ToKoreaWithLove wrote: Somebody probably know this better than me, but as far as I've been told over the years, attack grades does not affect splash damage, so with armor muta bounce (9-3-1) goes down to (8-2-0) and etc. It does, but only by 1/3 and 1/9. E.g. mutalisk with +3 attack deals 12-4-1.5 . Either way, armour upgrades are a lot more effective in muta battles than attack ups. | ||
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
On June 30 2004 23:19 Bill307 wrote: It does, but only by 1/3 and 1/9. E.g. mutalisk with +3 attack deals 12-4-1.5 . Either way, armour upgrades are a lot more effective in muta battles than attack ups. Bill do you also know about the sairs? What kind of splash damage will they do when a few grades is in place? | ||
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Overlord
Romania651 Posts
On July 01 2004 00:38 ToKoreaWithLove wrote: Bill do you also know about the sairs? What kind of splash damage will they do when a few grades is in place? In Starcraft (BroodWar) there are three type of Splash Damage: Radial Splash, Line Splash, and Air Splash. Any unit with splash damage has 3 value: S1, S2, and S3. These values determine the 'far' of area that is affected by splash damage from unit's weapon. In Radial Splash, S1 means how far (in pixel) any unit will be dealt with 100% damage from the weapon, while S2 and S3 show how far any unit will be dealt with 50% and 25% damage. Air Splash has same meaning with Radial Splash, but only work in air units. Line Splash is almost the same with Radial Splash, but it only affects the area between the target unit and the attacker (In other words: "in the line of fire"). Unit that has Radial Splash damage: Siege Tank (Siege Mode), Spider Mine, Psi Storm, and Infested Terran. Unit that has Line Splash damage: Firebat, Archon, Scarab, and Lurker. Unit that has Air Splash damage: Corsair and Valkyrie. Devourer has special Splash Damage, so it can't do damage to any nearby target unit. Nuclear Missile and Irradiate has special damage adjustment. In table below, is the value of S1, S2, and S3. Unit S1 S2 S3 ----------------------------------- Firebat 15 20 25 Siege Tank 10 25 40 Scarab 20 40 60 Spider Mine 50 75 100 Inf. Terran 20 40 60 Archon 3 15 30 Lurker 20 20 20 Corsair 5 50 100 Valkyrie 5 50 100 Psi Storm 48 48 48 Nuclear Miss. 128 192 256 Irradiate 64 64 64 | ||
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Zerg0
149 Posts
 oh wait nm, i thought ur name was overmind. my bad. | ||
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KillerPenguin
United States516 Posts
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
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Typhoon
196 Posts
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
From own experiences I'm tempted to guess yes. | ||
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Typhoon
196 Posts
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
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Overlord
Romania651 Posts
On July 01 2004 14:33 ToKoreaWithLove wrote: great info overlord - but it really did not answer my question. If muta gets slightly updated splash, does this also holds true for valks and sairs? From own experiences I'm tempted to guess yes. As muta is not listed i suppose corsair attack gets the whole upgrade and then the aboce three regions apply to the new damage. | ||
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Million
United States559 Posts
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Zerg0
149 Posts
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Casper...
Liberia4948 Posts
with hive comes ultra so why mess around? on gas nat maps, lurker volume is not an issue lurker volume and faster hive crack/ult, or an upgrade which really won't help unless you have 4 bases working | ||
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Casper...
Liberia4948 Posts
z will not get 4 bases working and t will get 2+ attack grades | ||
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Casper...
Liberia4948 Posts
bw continues to evolve amazing | ||
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Casper...
Liberia4948 Posts
i think i made that exact same point 2 or whatever years ago when they introduced carapace +2 on ultras | ||
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tehredbandit
United States77 Posts
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tehredbandit
United States77 Posts
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JoeUser
United States684 Posts
+5 armor does own m&m, but tanks and irrad are still an issue. | ||
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Splinter
United States188 Posts
On June 28 2004 19:55 Zerg0 wrote: That game was set up...his opponent had something like under 40apmYeah well Boxer can nuke rush and win, but I doubt few on this board would suggest that strategy. | ||
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