EPT[G] Frozen's FE PvP Guide - Page 3
| Forum Index > Brood War Strategy |
|
Sky.Technique
United States271 Posts
| ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
One important note: try building your gateway as close as possible to the ramp so it can arrive there before your opponent's first zeaot. If you want, I would be more than happy to review specific problems in your play if you uploaded a replay here or PMed me one. Lastly, if he's sticking with two gate, you do not need to go three gates nor do you need a shield battery. Just have three probes fighting with your zealot force and do not engage him until you have even number of zealots, which WILL inevitably happen (his reinforcement zealots haven't arrived yet) | ||
|
zer0das
United States8519 Posts
Surprisingly effective, especially since we're pretty even in skill and our PvPs usually drag on endlessly. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19305 Posts
| ||
|
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
Anyhow, I was playing some ladder games earlier today and decided to do this build in a PvP Fighting Spirit. When I scout my opponent I see him doing this exact build down to every detail, so I ask "Woah you do this build, too?" he goes "I saw it on TL." And then I am just like I wrote that! Haha it's a good feeling. | ||
|
Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
| ||
|
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On July 23 2010 15:11 Severedevil wrote: I'm curious how this build stacks up to a 1 gate zznexus build. From the numbers I believe you can get your fifth zealot at the same time with that build w/fewer probe cuts and only one gate, but of course the nexus is later. If I scout that build, I would build zealots from both gates non-stop to keep pressuring him. Then he would be forced to cut probes/add gates and so on just to survive, which nullifies any advantage - which I don't really see in the first place. You hardly cut any probes with the FE build in the zealot stage  | ||
|
love1another
United States1844 Posts
Btw, as my name implies, I do love you very much, mr. oneother. | ||
|
Entaro[AoV]
United States184 Posts
advice to guy on top, if you're D/D- stick to a single popular map that is easy to get games on. FS/Python works well. Your learning curve is gonna be very difficult for all aspects of the game if you are playing many maps. | ||
|
Knickknack
United States1187 Posts
FE 1-2zealot expand 2gate zealot expand. 12/13neuxs fe-scout has serious problems with proxy 9/9gates...only chance is hell is if you scout it and cancel nexus. 1-2zealot expand can possibly scout proxy and adapt before expo...though its still serious trouble since you started on 1gate. 10/12 gate zealot expand rapes proxy gates. This gives a taste of the issues involved with each build. As far as this guide the opening bo and responses seem largely good, but I would like to see more of the timing involved vs the various openings. Already mentioned, is that a player can possibly scout you and go 1-2zealot expand and then you hardly have any advantage. The remaining issue to my mind is 13core (think 10/15gate pvt here). The zealots are too late to do any real damage, then you will have to deal with many range goons. So that seems to be the main issue with why fe is not done more often...serious issues vs proxy and 10/15gate. | ||
|
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
I am not really sure what you mean by a player scouting me and going 1-2 zealot expanding, as FE build is vastly better than any type of gate-expand build, especially on maps like Fighting Spirit. He will die to the initial five zealots unless he cuts a large number of probes to get an extra gateway/more zealots. Clearly the FE runs a risk against hardcore proxy, but it can be defended with good micro. There's no perfect build that counters everything - the great part about FE is that there is "hard counter." You can defend and beat everything with proper mechanics and adjustments. Two gate-expand seems to be the only decent alternative (not as good as FE), as one-gate zealot is a bad build that will get beaten by just about any build, including the FE. Of course I have an advantage if he goes zealot first and then expands, 12 Nexus warps in incredibly fast. And another important aspect is that I can match his zealot count without any problem. | ||
|
Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
I tested some relevant timings: Against 13 core: Your gateway timing is the opponent's core timing. Against ZcoreZ: Your opponent will have 2 zealots and 1 dragoon (with one goon halfway done) when your fifth zealot pops. But by the time you get to his base, his third goon will just be spawning. Against ZZcoreZ: Your opponent will have 3 zealots and 2 dragoons finished and ready when your 5 zealots reach his base. Against 10/15 gate: You reach N zealots a little faster than your opponent reaches N dragoons, enough so that your 5 zealots can reach your opponent's base slightly earlier than a 10/15 gate's 5 dragoons can reach its opponent's base. You might be able to impede him with zealots long enough to prepare a wall o' cannons. If the opponent scouts particularly early, they'll be mildly slower than the above. You should be able to block any non-proxied gateway rush and come out with a heavy econ lead, and certainly 5 zealots are useful to buy time (and bolster your army once you have a real army), but I'm not seeing the counter-aggression. They're too late to punish a fast core, and you'll need at least seven to force a second gateway. | ||
|
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
EDIT: Thanks for testing the timing though! The FE can handle one-base builds, be it one gate or two gate. Proxy is dangerous, but defendable. I like it so much because, as stated before, there is no hard-counter :D | ||
|
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
| ||
|
Muirhead
United States556 Posts
Pros have trouble with that even if they 10 gate At best this is like 12 nex PvT and a blind proxy will kill you | ||
|
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
| ||
|
nbaker
United States1341 Posts
Thanks again! | ||
|
love1another
United States1844 Posts
On July 24 2010 10:29 OneOther wrote: Hmm I guess if my opponent had equal micro, it would be difficult to save my Nexus. It also depends on what type of proxy gate it is. A 10/12 gate proxy is somewhat defendable if I pull 5 probes from mineral line, but a 9/9 gate would be nearly impossible to stop. In that case I would just ditch my expo Nexus and pump non-stop probes to get an economic advantage while holding my ramp. (9/9 proxy gates cut a lot of probes obviously) How do you plan to hold a ramp against 9/9 proxy gate? Just float probes and block? The first zealot will be in your base far before your first zealot can get out to block the ramp. (which is actually already the case for shortish distance 10-gate-in-base) A smart opponent will just runby your nat and hunt down your probes. That's clearly a hard-counter right? | ||
|
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
| ||
|
Muirhead
United States556 Posts
He'll have zealots walking around in your main long before you get your first zealot out He won't even do any damage to your warping in nat and will just runby to kill the probes Like in PvT a bbsing terran will bunker rush the main and not the nat if facing a 12 nex | ||
| ||
