[G] Frozen's FE PvP Guide - Page 13

On February 08 2012 07:43 Sayle wrote:


Interesting, I came to the same conclusion ;p



4gate doesn't work against it anyway, as I explained in my last post. There are three counters that I use depending on the situation.

1) If you're confident in your zealot micro and the opportunity presents itself, you can manner pylon his main and rally zealots from one gateway to his base and zealot harass. Follow up with a 2nd gateway and fast goons and you can often get there before his cannons are up, in which case he's screwed. Your zealot micro must be at least equal to his and you need a good manner pylon for this to work. In fact, this is the reason that a lot of top players say this build doesn't work at very high levels: zealot micro is just too strong.

2) 2gate goon + proxy robo reaver (skipping shuttle). It's somewhat all-in but it's a pretty reliable counter if it's not scouted.

3) DT drop. This is also semi all-in and will not work against a very experienced 12nex player. It's basically a free win against inexperienced players though. Just load up 4 DTs and drop them directly on top of any cannon he has in his main. If he built his robo in his main instead of his natural, it's insta-gg.

Unfortunately, my counters are basically to just kill him and not play a long game. However, I have had some discussion with KidCanada about the build and he has a good idea for a long term counter. His idea is to double expand AND double tech (reaver/templar) at the same time. This sounds very flimsy but keep in mind that 1) the 12nex has no attacking power for quite a while and 2) reavers are extremely efficient in defence. Basically, if the 12nex player goes for some kind of mass gate all in to counter your double expand (see my game vs Sziky), you can just stop it with DTs. If he invests in a robo and obs, he will not have enough units to kill your reaver/goon defence. I don't really know the specifics so perhaps KC can shed some light on it.

On February 08 2012 12:01 dRaW wrote:


First off, dont push at all, get GOON RANGE before first goon a 2nd gate around 21psi, then you will cut goons after 5th goon to double expo. If he does any 5zlot push stuff you can easily deflect it (you will have 3goon zlot something like this on the ramp) scout for any hidden zlotsprobes before you double expo then go pressure with goons to force cannons (don't have to commit at all). You will get robo before your 6th goon, get citadel as robo is finishing, get robo support bay+observatory, then templar archive, get 2nd gas @ expo when it's up. if the map is FS you can use pylon wall like in PvT cause its really good to defend, I recommend getting 2 reavers before shuttle (BUT go reaver->ob->reaver), he can't hit any timing with ob before your dt comes out anyway that is what you use to slow any 5-6gate push before ob, and when he has ob you should have a shuttle / 2 reaver and 3 base so you just defend from there. My recommendation is going to 6gate before forge and then get 2 of them to catch up if he did quick upgs. Sorry it's not too specific, I only recall the opening because it proved to be really successful and easy to block their aggression. It seems like you won't be able to afford all this, but you are cutting goons for tech/econ and the fact that he doesn't really know what you're doing makes him unable to be too greedy. (after deflecting his 5zlot push you will easily have army adv and he will be really defensive anyway)

On February 09 2012 01:57 OneOther wrote:

This sounds really interesting, thanks a lot draw. I think one of my opponents does this in a replay, although not as well. ShoX goes for a DT drop into double expo with defensive reavers I believe, but I just happened to get too far ahead since I didn't waste much money on cannons and other defensive measures.

If the fast expanding player scouts your double expo (somehow), is he pretty much forced to go into a two-base all in banking on more minerals collected?

Also, do you have a replay? I want to see how you would hold off a strong two-base attack

On February 08 2012 12:01 dRaW wrote:


First off, dont push at all, get GOON RANGE before first goon a 2nd gate around 21psi, then you will cut goons after 5th goon to double expo. If he does any 5zlot push stuff you can easily deflect it (you will have 3goon zlot something like this on the ramp) scout for any hidden zlotsprobes before you double expo then go pressure with goons to force cannons (don't have to commit at all). You will get robo before your 6th goon, get citadel as robo is finishing, get robo support bay+observatory, then templar archive, get 2nd gas @ expo when it's up. if the map is FS you can use pylon wall like in PvT cause its really good to defend, I recommend getting 2 reavers before shuttle (BUT go reaver->ob->reaver), he can't hit any timing with ob before your dt comes out anyway that is what you use to slow any 5-6gate push before ob, and when he has ob you should have a shuttle / 2 reaver and 3 base so you just defend from there. My recommendation is going to 6gate before forge and then get 2 of them to catch up if he did quick upgs. Sorry it's not too specific, I only recall the opening because it proved to be really successful and easy to block their aggression. It seems like you won't be able to afford all this, but you are cutting goons for tech/econ and the fact that he doesn't really know what you're doing makes him unable to be too greedy. (after deflecting his 5zlot push you will easily have army adv and he will be really defensive anyway)

On July 10 2013 02:25 thezanursic wrote:
How exactly should I deal with a 10/12 into 2 gates in my main. Seems stupid, yes, but I don't know how much exactly I should dedicate to killing them/the pylon.

On July 10 2013 15:04 JMave wrote:


i don't think its actually that hard to hold off 2 gate considering that you build the second pylon in the nat and you have 2 gates pumping zealots. just add a shield battery and you are good to go. also, i have found that manner pylon is really effective against that build so you should avoid it at all costs even if it means having to stop a probe at that location just to prevent it because he will be able to get a zealot in before yours even pops out.

On July 11 2013 19:33 thezanursic wrote:

I guess I didn't clarify it well enough.

10/12 is fine. I've dealt with that before, but I have faced 2-3 people who just proxy 2 more gateways (One of them did it in my main for fucks sake -.-) I really didn't know what to do.