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REHABILITATED* (sorry it was like 3 AM ;p)
First of all I'd like to apologize in advanced if I am posting this in the wrong spot.
Hello I am completely new to sc...... weird enough too as I have played wc3 for 4 years and some wc2 before then.
But anyway I want to start by saying that I am soooo amazed by 2 things in sc.
1. The depth of the game it self, even with the tiny bit of knowledge I have gotten from this game i can say that this game is easily 10x more complex and deep than wc3.
2. The community support. It is huge, 1000x bigger than wc3's. This website is amazing there is so many resources and knowledge its incredible. And looks like i picked up the game at a perfect time too, got to watch my first sc vods and they were the TSL. So nice.
I am not even going to begin with the "Im new what do I dew" question because there is just so many resources available on this site. Its just great!
Anyway my goal is to get decently good at this game. So if you have any suggestions I would love all the help i can get. I have been reading liquipedia and watching vods and some replays already.
This is my plan of action and I'd love some feedback on what you think. if its a good idea or not.
I really don't want to pick a permanent race at the moment as i want to have a broader view of the game. But this is the way i see it.
There is a total of 6 match ups in this game (mirrors included), but 9 match ups to learn (i.e TvsP, PvsT). From what I have seen there is almost endless amounts of strats to do per match up. I mean if you just look at build orders on liquipedia there is like 8 builds per match up. So that already seems very overwhelming(in wc3 there is like 1 build per match up, and if you are orc 1 build period haha).
So my plan is basically to take it a step at a time and sort of learn 2 basic strats per match but learn 1 and 1/2 at a time. Let me explain the 1/2.
For example I want to start with learning ZvsT build 2/3 Hatch muta (getting some of the lingo down !  ) . So spend time learning the strat perfecting etc... that is taking care of 1, but also i feel like i'll be half learning some TvsZ. Then I would move on to learning PvsZ a build there etc... Sort of knocking it down 1 match up at a time. At the same time working on the mechanics.
(This is the technique i used to learn to play the piano. Took it one song at a time till i perfected a song moved on to a different chord etc feel like it was a faster way to learn the instrument than what i did to learn the violin which was a much broader learn a lil of everything at once approach..)
After that i suppose the next step would be to chose a race and further improve on what I have already learned.
Let me know what you guys think.
I do have one question, How ambitious is it to say that I hope to be Rank D+/C- iccup Within 6 months. Is it crazy? or achievable? What about C? I know it would probably be easier if i stick to one race but I am weird like that and I refuse to do it! .
Anyway sorry for the long long post, any suggestions advice anything is appreciated. Thanks in advanced!!
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Osaka27148 Posts
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Thank you sir! I had seen one of those but not the 2nd one  . Ty Ty.
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Perfectly realistic to become C- in 6 months considering you have RTS experiance already. Of course it's going to depend on how much effort youre willing to put into it.
If you ask Kolll he'd say you suck unless you get B- by then end of your first 6 months or so.. ^^
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you played Warcraft2, you skipped Starcraft, you then played Warcraft3 for 4 years.
Something's wrong.
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Funny you mention he was the guy i dled my first rep pack from. Only to find out that this guy is 14!
Talk about raw talent.
On March 09 2010 17:50 intrudor wrote:
you played Warcraft2, you skipped Starcraft, you then played Warcraft3 for 4 years.
Something's wrong.
Well wc3 was already out at the time, I just didnt really know about it. to be perfectly honest i barely even played wc2... I played free castles and then I bought Wc3.
Anyway I've seen the light. =]
SC ftw ;P
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That's an interesting way to learn the game. I think the fastest way to reach c- would be to pick just one of those races and try and learn the 3 mus. The opening build orders are only really half the early game, the other half is tweaking it to your opponent. On the other hand, going one mu at a time would give a very complete understanding of the game which is awesome especially with sc2 coming up. I'd say your way sounds fine but I imagine it'll be very frustrating to start over 9 times. Gl!
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Yeah I think a big part is going to be whether I give up or not. Its always easier to go back to right clicking people in wc3 with my blademaster but I hope I stick to it. If i do I think ill do just fine
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I'm a C Terran myself, and I'd be willing to play you every once in a while if you want some free practice and any advice I can offer. (We can focus on specific build or w/e, but my knowledge of Zerg is not that good in ZvP/ZvZ)
Best of luck in your endeavors, your methodical approach is certainly good, and your goal is achievable if you are willing to put some constant effort in.
Be sure to watch Day[9] daily, he sometimes really slows down to the tiniest aspects of the game, explaining them simply and repeatedly so I guess it would be a really insightful learning experience to listen to some of his casts.
You can find his thread in the Broodwar section.
Also, it's REHABILITATED. Just a pet peeve of mine
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On March 09 2010 17:32 heaven- wrote:I do have one question, How ambitious is it to say that I hope to be Rank D+/C- iccup Within 6 months. Is it crazy? or achievable? What about C? I know it would probably be easier if i stick to one race but I am weird like that and I refuse to do it! .
Well, it took me 4 months to get to C/C+, but I play only one race (zerg), however, I find analysis other races inside gameplay (idk if that's the right term) very helpful. Learning all 3 races isn't a bad idea as long as you work on it. (for example: some of my friends play all 3 races, but since they don't like 1 or 2 matchups they just tend to cheese on them and doesn't focus on the "standard" strategies). Anyways, gl :}.
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Sorry about the Typo. 3 AM
I had to reinstall windows on my computer and I am unable to install iTunes or Quicktime for some reason. It just starts the installer but then dies out and computer starts to lag but no installation ever comes. ( im saying this because i assume you need itunes to listen to a podcast, or im retarded)
Yeah Proom I'd love to play you sometime. Actually Wed Im off from school and work! :D..gonna be a sc all day for me. My Name in iccup is Negato. I am not sure what Cheese means but i guess its some sort of all in strat, which i suppose is not bad to learn but mb later. not right now
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United States4126 Posts
How fast you improve depends on how much you're willing to apply yourself to the game. If you have enough dedication to play for several hours a day, you can easily achieve C- within 6 months.
From your post, it seems like you want to play all three races. From personal experience, I don't recommend this. Not only does it require you to learn 6 more matchups, but it'll be harder for you to learn overall because you'll have so much more to learn than if you were practicing with just one race. I recommend choosing one race after playing around with the three, and sticking with the one you're most comfortable with.
I wish you luck in your endeavor.
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the quickest way to C would be to only play one matchup:
"C- Heartbreak Zerg wanted" type games, but that's not fun
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On March 09 2010 18:36 Bill Murray wrote:
the quickest way to C would be to only play one matchup:
"C- Heartbreak Zerg wanted" type games, but that's not fun
I dont think the OP is searching for the quickest way to get to some rank, instead he's looking forward to improving his skill level :}.
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Be sure to PM me if you're up for any games (top left corner)
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On March 09 2010 17:50 heaven- wrote:Well wc3 was already out at the time,
yes. but SC was also already out at the time. Bad excuse.
On March 09 2010 17:50 heaven- wrote:SC ftw ;P
indeed
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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lol@inc what a pimp.
heaven i didn't know u were learning sc. we should play sometime! i have basically the same exact goal as you lmao and i started a few weeks ago; difference is I have played sc wayyyy back so i at least remember some stuff; also i've kept with the scene. but im fuckin terrible lolol.
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It's hard to say how far you can get in 6 months without knowing where you are at now. That being said though, I am pretty sure anyone can go from 0 to D+ in that time if they just put their mind to it. Your main obsticles, as a WC3 player will be to constantly put workers to mine and needing to select individual buildings in order to macro.
If you want to improve, I suggest having a focus of practice for each game such as "This game I will make sure I do the build order perfectly", "This game I will make sure I hotkey everything correctly and only use the hotkeys", "This game I will focus on positioning and micro", "This game I will make sure I spend my money without queueing". Look at your replays and note down what mistakes you are making. Some might not be obvious to you so if possible get a friend to help you occasionally.
I approve of your ambition to play all the matchups because they all come in different flavours, so that will make it easier to keep playing and be more fun.
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Its surely a reachable goal. How was you when you play WC3. If you can get a 10+ winstreak, you can reach D+/C- level I think.
I played SC when it first came out, played 3 years of WC3(quit one year after the realease of TFT).
Actually if you are a veteran WC3 player, all you need to learn in SC is macro, you have a pretty good micro from WC3 already.
And ofc the commitment to play many games a day. Thats a must.
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Koll did B- in 6months. anything is possible if you just dedicate time and effort into it 
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don't have much to offer in terms of strats and such, but welcome =)
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Welcome to the light buddy !
About your strat of improving i can say its preety good. you need good understanding of all races if you wanna be really good in this game like Mondragon orr you can be good with one race but play like robot like kolll.
When i started sc i played random for like few months geting the basics for all races and then after i swtiched to my favorite matchups which are pvz pvt zvp now but i can play all races good which is condition to be really good in sc. If you dedicate alot of time and serious training then i guess you can hit C-/C in few months with no problem.
If you need any help im alwyas free to help msg me on iccup my acc is Get.DuDuk
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i thought i'd give my opinion. I did D+ in 6 months, but i only played hard for 3 months. During this time I watched practically every pro vod that came out for the matchups i play (and about half of those that i don't play). Since theN I have been busy and only played casually, but i think if you played hard for 6 months straight C- would be doable. Also it may be easier for you since you played RTS some before. I started out at 60 apm so it took me quite some time to naturally improve to 170
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hi!
having played war3 myself in between PGT and ICC when it got popular (yes, i betrayed you all ^^), there are a good number of noticeable differences that will really help you out -
I'm speaking from an experienced perspective, having ranked to C+ on iccup and gotten a 56% ratio with a 750 win count on Azeroth (which is pretty good I'd say, for my one and only account).
My SC and WC3 friends are all playing SC2 now, and from what I hear from WC3 players, here is what is hard to adjust to:
- constant worker production (to an extent of course)
- macro view of the game (i.e. I may have lost the battle, but I secured an expo and am defending it with HT/reavers/cannons so I'm ahead economically)
- tricks/deceptions (hiding buildings means what?)
- scouting your enemy - SO important in all SC matchups
but also some useful things:
- WC3 level micro is definitely necessary for your SC openings. Especially in mirror matches, one screw up will probably cost you the game.
- in WC3, you understand while you go heavy on a certain unit against a race (because they'll go a certain unit against you, for example) - in SC it's like that too, and I think the unit mixes will come pretty quickly.
That said, I went from SC -> WC3 -> SC/SCII so I don't have a pure WC3 perspective
hope that helps!
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First of all, welcome.
On March 09 2010 17:32 heaven- wrote:
Anyway my goal is to get decently good at this game. So if you have any suggestions I would love all the help i can get. I have been reading liquipedia and watching vods and some replays already.
Define "decently good"..... Reading liquipedia, watching vods, watching replays, and searching the forum for any specific questions are definitely good ways of increasing your knowledge of the game. Another thing you will need to do is practice specific micro tricks. Play some friends on a "Micro Tourney" UMS game, it will test your micromanagement of certain units. Another thing you could do is find some of the specific training maps (hotkey training maps, macro training maps, mutalisk micro, vulture micro, etc.....). Get good at those, with a solid strategic understanding of the game, and you'll have the ability to hit C and beyond.
I do have one question, How ambitious is it to say that I hope to be Rank D+/C- iccup Within 6 months. Is it crazy? or achievable? What about C? I know it would probably be easier if i stick to one race but I am weird like that and I refuse to do it! .
You can definitely hit the D+/C- ranks if you play fairly often. But you should be warned that the skill difference between ranks is actually pretty big (the biggest probably between B+ and A-, although CPU and D- can give it a run for it's money). You will also run into people who are of a higher skill, and are either warming up for more serious games, are working their way up the ladder, or are purposely smurfing, so that will knock you down. Take these games as learning experiences, so you can see how a better player can tear you apart from the smallest of mistakes. The higher you get in the ladder, the less often this will happen.
My "goal" when I first started was to try to stay out of D- in my first season. I managed to do that. After that, my goal was to hit D+, eventually. I had no intention on becoming "decent" at this game. I ended up hitting C- pretty comfortably in my third season (9 months). In this period of time, I averaged about 1 game per day, and 1 vod/podcast/whatever else per day, so somewhere around 45 minutes per day. That is not a lot of time. My macro and micro are terrible still. If you were to put some serious effort into getting better, you can definitely hit C pretty quickly.
Don't be afraid of asking questions. I've asked a few stupid ones myself. If you really try to figure out the game, you will have many epiphanies during the process.
For a really awesome perspective of the game, watch Day[9]. Watching his casts ended up helping me jump from a struggling D player to a pretty solid C- in just 1 season, with no real change in mechanical skill (I had an increase of 1 apm that season.....).
Another thing you can do to get better is to join the ICCUP training program (or at least hang around in the channel). There are always people in the channel willing to practice, so if you are having a hard time with one specific thing, ask for help. Joining any clan/team helps, but the ICCUP training program has a lot of people in a similar situation to yourself, making it a really good choice.
Most importantly - GL HF
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On March 09 2010 23:43 ThePhan2m wrote:
Koll did B- in 6months
...by doing the same build every game.
Not to undermine the significance of his achievement, surely not anyone can do it, however I'm really not impressed by him at all. While he does hold some decent and legitimate skill, he completely lacks the experience usually found amongst gamers that reach the B ranks in a few years of playing. Maybe it has something to do with his age as well, I'm sure he has the ability to mature into a great player.
His losses to Gosi Terran (I think?) in the TSL are proof of his lack of experience/adaptability.
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On March 10 2010 01:18 minus_human wrote:...by doing the same build every game. Not to undermine the significance of his achievement, surely not anyone can do it, however I'm really not impressed by him at all. While he does hold some decent and legitimate skill, he completely lacks the experience usually found amongst gamers that reach the B ranks in a few years of playing. Maybe it has something to do with his age as well, I'm sure he has the ability to mature into a great player. His losses to Gosi Terran (I think?) in the TSL are proof of his lack of experience/adaptability.
I'll bet alot of people that have been playing sc for there whole life couldn't do that even if it was "the same build"
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On March 10 2010 01:21 Saturnize wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2010 01:18 minus_human wrote:On March 09 2010 23:43 ThePhan2m wrote:
Koll did B- in 6months ...by doing the same build every game. Not to undermine the significance of his achievement, surely not anyone can do it, however I'm really not impressed by him at all. While he does hold some decent and legitimate skill, he completely lacks the experience usually found amongst gamers that reach the B ranks in a few years of playing. Maybe it has something to do with his age as well, I'm sure he has the ability to mature into a great player. His losses to Gosi Terran (I think?) in the TSL are proof of his lack of experience/adaptability. I'll bet alot of people that have been playing sc for there whole life couldn't do that even if it was "the same build"
And your point, besides repeating a part of what I wrote, is what?
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On March 10 2010 01:18 minus_human wrote:...by doing the same build every game. Not to undermine the significance of his achievement, surely not anyone can do it, however I'm really not impressed by him at all. While he does hold some decent and legitimate skill, he completely lacks the experience usually found amongst gamers that reach the B ranks in a few years of playing. Maybe it has something to do with his age as well, I'm sure he has the ability to mature into a great player. His losses to Gosi Terran (I think?) in the TSL are proof of his lack of experience/adaptability.
I totally agree. And he lost to Fenix btw.
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I started on WC3 TFT ladders, then moved back to SC/BW. If you study hard enough and play a lot of games, reviewing your replays and matching them up to make sure you have a seamless build order, you can make D+ in 2 months.
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I guess I'll just put this out about races. I'm only D/D+ but Terran is really hard early on as their armies take lots of babysitting and Bio is the most demanding (macro/micro) wise ingame. (I think T_T) Protoss are easiest to play, most of the time but in PvZ they have some trouble vs zerg. Zerg are really hard to macro as you've got hatcheries everywhere. Also they're really gas heavy. Also if you want I play T if you wanna play some games :D
been playing for ~6 months and still D/D+ T_T
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I, for one, don't have the ambition to practice a whole lot in order to get better. However, the game is more fun if you win more often/have the mechanics to use more interesting strategies.
When starting off, you are going to spend a good chunk of time just improving your mechanics. If you go on iccup and try doing 3 hatch muta you will likely mess it up every time and may not even get to the mutas much of the time. This can be very tedious trying to get better while getting demolished.
My solution was to play games that are more fun depending on your skill level. When I first got on iccup, i mostly played 3v3 on BGH. Total noob thing to do, but trust me, it is more fun playing 3v3s than getting smashed in 1v1s. Also, even though you won't learn the perfect BO or strategy in a 3v3, you will find that your mechanics do improve and you have a lot of fun doing it.
After that I moved on to occasional 1v1ing and primarily 2v2ing. Once again, in 2v2s the build orders are very different, but you get great mechanics practice and it is much more competitive than 3v3ing. In the past I was always a low D/D- player, but my friend and I easily hit D+ as a 2v2 team(because the skill level is lower amongst 2v2ers generally) It was way more fun for me to learn that way rather than try to grind out a 10% win ratio your first iccup season.
This all might be moot for you if you have enough rts experience, though.
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yeah dude half my clan is playing sc now lol we aren't really trying in w3 that much anymore -- its hard to practice cause ladder is hack-filled now.
I'll PM my msn.
also checking out ur reps! xD
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Pretty sure you can get to C- in a month playing 2~3 hrs day with a decent trainning schedule.
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Unless something has changed, posting your MSN publicly isn't against a rule.
Anyways, most people are giving good advice and you seem to have a lot of motivation so instead of repeating the same "get good mechanics" thing I will wish you the best of luck!
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It all depends on how good you are at understanding build orders and timings of each race. If it's true that Wc3 had very few build orders to learn then you won't be used to timings at all. Watching progamer VODs and replays might help you learn build orders and general timings.
More importantly, you should watch and analyze your own replays after each game, for maximum improvement. Players have general tendencies at each rank and if you get an idea of what their weaknesses are through watching every replay you will be able to beat more people. Afterwards you'll have to develop an insane amount of mechanics and metagame knowledge in order to compete. This is where pro replays and VODs are most effective (I highly suggest TSL2 VODs because commentary is in English and it's much much more useful to have commentary when you want to understand something).
I think a great way to improve is to play as all three races. By doing this you can implement strategies that others use against you.
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Welcome to TL and SC
I think with prior WC3 experience, C- in 6 months (while difficult) is achievable. Took me like 6 months to go from D- to D ~.~
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I had almost no experience with RTS games when I started playing on Battle.net about 6 months ago. My highest rank was very low C- so some one like you who is an ex-warcraft player and are already watching vods. It's extremely possible to become C by then.
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Thanks for all the encouragement everyone. really hyped up about this.
ok since its allowed
my msn is yeah_f_u2@hotmail.com
If you ever wanna play some sc just let me know =].
Aside from TSL vods are there any English Commentary vods of recent games preferably koreans. (gotta learn from the best haha)
???
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is awesome32274 Posts
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Thanks both of ya .
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Really? REALLY?Advertising? Isn't that like in one of the commandments for TL?
Anyways, play all MUs and get a feel for a few of each race's very basic bo's/cheeses just by studying them/ doing versus the cpu every once in a while(I do this whenever I lose a bunch of games versus 1 particular race. PvZ lose to zerg then redo all their BOs against cpu then I might watch the rep to see the timing of a particular timing attack(if its something like a 3 hatch ling all-in) I may also look at the rep I lost and copy down the Bo (thankfully blizzard made it so that in SCII this is automatically copied down at end of game) to see the difference(if any) between my BO and the enemy's. This is not necessarily how you may want to approach it but this is how I would approach it.
edit: o and, if you haven't already, CHOOSE PROTOSS! We have the most awesome guide ever! THE ULTIMATE DT GUIDE!(scroll down strategy thread)
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On March 10 2010 11:19 3FFA wrote:Really? REALLY?Advertising? Isn't that like in one of the commandments for TL? Anyways, play all MUs and get a feel for a few of each race's very basic bo's/cheeses just by studying them/ doing versus the cpu every once in a while(I do this whenever I lose a bunch of games versus 1 particular race. PvZ lose to zerg then redo all their BOs against cpu then I might watch the rep to see the timing of a particular timing attack(if its something like a 3 hatch ling all-in) I may also look at the rep I lost and copy down the Bo (thankfully blizzard made it so that in SCII this is automatically copied down at end of game) to see the difference(if any) between my BO and the enemy's. This is not necessarily how you may want to approach it but this is how I would approach it. edit: o and, if you haven't already, CHOOSE PROTOSS! We have the most awesome guide ever! THE ULTIMATE DT GUIDE!(scroll down strategy thread)
We haz too manyz protozziz in zis world. ^^
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as an orc player i think the comparison with protoss is a bit narrow minded, sure they both have high hp units; but protoss is less mechanically demanding and focuses more on macro (playing standard, that is). terran requires the same kind of skillset in terms of emphasis on mechanics, and standard cookie cutter builds that you refine to perfection as orc in war3.
you can solidly practice 1rax FE every game vs zerg into standard bio based ball; you can do FD or siege expand every game vs toss, fac cc ebay and just turtle harass and macro up. of course you have to adapt but your gameplan/starting bo will be the same and then you go from there.
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On March 10 2010 12:06 bluegoo wrote:
as an orc player i think the comparison with protoss is a bit narrow minded, sure they both have high hp units; but protoss is less mechanically demanding and focuses more on macro (playing standard, that is). terran requires the same kind of skillset in terms of emphasis on mechanics, and standard cookie cutter builds that you refine to perfection as orc in war3.
you can solidly practice 1rax FE every game vs zerg into standard bio based ball; you can do FD or siege expand every game vs toss, fac cc ebay and just turtle harass and macro up. of course you have to adapt but your gameplan/starting bo will be the same and then you go from there.
that completely depends on the mu. pvz is nothing like this at all. pvz is about harassment, timing attacks, surprise tech switches, and hope that your own expos survive.
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On March 10 2010 12:08 majesty.k)seRapH wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2010 12:06 bluegoo wrote:
as an orc player i think the comparison with protoss is a bit narrow minded, sure they both have high hp units; but protoss is less mechanically demanding and focuses more on macro (playing standard, that is). terran requires the same kind of skillset in terms of emphasis on mechanics, and standard cookie cutter builds that you refine to perfection as orc in war3.
you can solidly practice 1rax FE every game vs zerg into standard bio based ball; you can do FD or siege expand every game vs toss, fac cc ebay and just turtle harass and macro up. of course you have to adapt but your gameplan/starting bo will be the same and then you go from there. that completely depends on the mu. pvz is nothing like this at all. pvz is about harassment, timing attacks, surprise tech switches, and hope that your own expos survive.
even that is only a slight exception to the general rule IMHO. + Show Spoiler [not entirely on topic] +if you watch how nony plays you will see that its mainly his macro even though he is harassing nonstop. when he does the +1 zlot into dual stargate aggression, many times he loses all his units completely but as long has he has done more damage and keeps macroing, he is still ahead due to beastly macro rather than his amazing micro; that is to say, it is more his macro that is actually winning the game. I remember in a livestream many of the people in chat were ragging on nony this one game, because he kept losing all his zlots that he was harassing with and they were all like OMFG zerg making a 4th nony loses. Then Chill lol's while calling everyone fucking idiots while nony, who had done more damage, then did a timing on the zergs nat off 2-base and raped face.
It seems like because of my sig you are assuming I dont know PvZ. But that isn't entirely true. I am not discounting what you said since it does seem to be true at the korean pro level; however I am just letting you know that you are completely missing my point; If you want a race that is like orc, which can be described in the following terms:
ORC in war3:tft
-one general army composition vs all races; softcounters everything with good micro
--transition and slightly different possibilities vs UD
-one starting bo
--small adaptations and/or cheesy, all-in opportunities at beginning of tier2 that have very low success rates at high lvl
-microing an army that isn't good at one particular thing, except surviving and not letting units escape; the army tanks damage so the green guy with sword deals it.
-MICRO
-powerful army from less bases
more similar to T than P. Really this was all I am trying to say.
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On March 10 2010 12:39 bluegoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2010 12:08 majesty.k)seRapH wrote:On March 10 2010 12:06 bluegoo wrote:
as an orc player i think the comparison with protoss is a bit narrow minded, sure they both have high hp units; but protoss is less mechanically demanding and focuses more on macro (playing standard, that is). terran requires the same kind of skillset in terms of emphasis on mechanics, and standard cookie cutter builds that you refine to perfection as orc in war3.
you can solidly practice 1rax FE every game vs zerg into standard bio based ball; you can do FD or siege expand every game vs toss, fac cc ebay and just turtle harass and macro up. of course you have to adapt but your gameplan/starting bo will be the same and then you go from there. that completely depends on the mu. pvz is nothing like this at all. pvz is about harassment, timing attacks, surprise tech switches, and hope that your own expos survive. even that is only a slight exception to the general rule IMHO. + Show Spoiler [not entirely on topic] +if you watch how nony plays you will see that its mainly his macro even though he is harassing nonstop. when he does the +1 zlot into dual stargate aggression, many times he loses all his units completely but as long has he has done more damage and keeps macroing, he is still ahead due to beastly macro rather than his amazing micro; that is to say, it is more his macro that is actually winning the game. I remember in a livestream many of the people in chat were ragging on nony this one game, because he kept losing all his zlots that he was harassing with and they were all like OMFG zerg making a 4th nony loses. Then Chill lol's while calling everyone fucking idiots while nony, who had done more damage, then did a timing on the zergs nat off 2-base and raped face.
It seems like because of my sig you are assuming I dont know PvZ. But that isn't entirely true. I am not discounting what you said since it does seem to be true at the korean pro level; however I am just letting you know that you are completely missing my point; If you want a race that is like orc, which can be described in the following terms: ORC in war3:tft -one general army composition vs all races; softcounters everything with good micro --transition and slightly different possibilities vs UD -one starting bo --small adaptations and/or cheesy, all-in opportunities at beginning of tier2 that have very low success rates at high lvl -microing an army that isn't good at one particular thing, except surviving and not letting units escape; the army tanks damage so the green guy with sword deals it. -MICRO -powerful army from less bases more similar to T than P. Really this was all I am trying to say.
actually, i assumed you didnt know pvz b/c your icon is terran, and the only toss mu you mention is pvt.
i apologize for misunderstanding your meaning in trying to draw parallels between wc3 and scbw, as i have almost no experience with wc3.
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i apologize for misunderstanding your meaning in trying to draw parallels between wc3 and scbw, as i have almost no experience with wc3.
Yeah no hard feelings, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear that that was what I wanted to do; basically heaven- is an orc player I think he should learn some terran! Only thing about that is, practicing mass TvT with him won't be fun LOL.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
this is far and away the most important thread for a brand new zerg user: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=65335
mutalisk control is more important than basically anything else in ZvT. use the advantage (or simple delay of whatever he's doing) to try different shit and see what's good and what's terrible out of things you invent or stuff you read about. it will create a solid foundation for your matches entering the midgame, which means you're free to dictate the pace and less likely to find yourself franticly trying to defend against stuff. plus a lot of terrans are just bad and if you're good at mutalisk micro you can just kill people.
download the micro maps posted in the OP of the thread I linked, or search TL for some. Play the shit out of them until you massacre scourge and marines and so on
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I saw in the iccup launcher that there is like map of the weeks. Are those the maps you have to play in order for it to count in ladder?? or whats that about.
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On March 10 2010 12:52 bluegoo wrote:Show nested quote +
i apologize for misunderstanding your meaning in trying to draw parallels between wc3 and scbw, as i have almost no experience with wc3.
Yeah no hard feelings, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear that that was what I wanted to do; basically heaven- is an orc player I think he should learn some terran! Only thing about that is, practicing mass TvT with him won't be fun LOL.
TvT doesn't get the love it deserves 
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On March 10 2010 13:49 heaven- wrote:
I saw in the iccup launcher that there is like map of the weeks. Are those the maps you have to play in order for it to count in ladder?? or whats that about.
ICCup has a specific map pool, which you can download as a pack on their website. Map of the week is a system wherein each week, 5 maps are worth 30% additional points when you get a victory on 'em, providing you are connected with the anti-hack on. So, winning a D vs D match on one of the maps of the week (type /motw in chat to see what the current list is) nets you 130 points instead of 100, and so on.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
i don't know if you really needed such specific information but there it is
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gl in your quest for c-! Good job creating a thread named after me too ;D
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I haven't read through the thread in detail, so what I'm about to say has probably already been said.
The first and most important thing is to get your mechanics down. You should already have decent ones if you played WC3 seriously at all. It will be an issue of further developing them in the direction SC requires, as opposed to what WC3 requires. You need to be able to execute build orders very tightly, and you need to be able to macro properly, keeping money down, keeping one, at most two, units building in all of your production buildings, etc.
Secondly, I would recommend picking one race at the onset and focusing on one matchup. Then focus on one build order, the standard. This will help you not only in getting a grasp of the game, the sense it requires, and getting a feel overall for it, but it will also be the most helpful thing in getting the basic mechanics down for any matchup (arguably, it will differ with zerg since their macro differs from the other two races, though).
Third, I highly recommend watching lots and lots of VODs. Watch Korean ones. Watch Day[9]'s podcasts of Korean games. Build orders are great, but they don't directly teach you how to adapt. This is the best way to learn gameflow and what to do at different points in the game, compromising between massing games (which can burn you out and get frustrating) and just hanging around liquipedia and the strat forum here.
Play many games at the start just so you get a feel for how SC plays...the units are pretty retarded sometimes, and building placement can be very awkward. Learn what units are available, what ones are used in whatever matchup and situation and why.
From there, learn what the overarching goals are for every build order used in every matchup. Every build order has differing effects and so your overall strategy in the game will change depending on which one you choose to pick. Some are early timing attacks used to end the game quickly or to cripple your opponent allowing for another followup attack. Other early timing attacks are designed to get you an expansion. Other ones have no early or even midgame attack timing, and are used to secure a late game advantage. Figure out why the build order you're learning is used, and understand the things that can make that build order fail. Then figure out what you can do to try to recover. Do you attack your opponent's latest expansion? Do you just try to hold map control while expo'ing yourself? Do you skip workers and try to end it early? Do you just give up your expansion and counter?
I hope this helps.
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Very nice suggestions PH.
Thanks.
IM currently playing vs a friend who is C- and he is kicking my ass again and again. :\
right now my biggest problem is i tend to have 1-3 drone/scvs/probes afk and it starts to add up.
Then it gets to a point i have 2k minerals ;|
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Lol. When I try playing wc3, I failed cause I got to high upkeep in like 10 minute T_T. But sc is fun and chaotic and fun. Have fun. ^.^
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yeah high upkeep you dont want to get unless you have a serious econ advantage.
actually you sometimes don't even want to go above no upkeep depending on the situation.
Like elf vs orc. They basically stay 50 all game, and orc has to go above 60 or they never will win. ;p
You will see alot of good orcs sort of do quick hit and runs vs elf trying to hit wells to stall them below or at 50 while the orc army gets ahead. Even the 50 vs 70 fight sometimes goes bad for the orc. Frankly Orc is overpowered, however its a very unforgiving race, no mistake can be made early game or gg.
And in SC... man not getting a single win vs my friend is frustrating me. but i guess thats gonna be the pattern for a while.
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On March 10 2010 16:13 heaven- wrote:Very nice suggestions PH. Thanks. IM currently playing vs a friend who is C- and he is kicking my ass again and again. :\ right now my biggest problem is i tend to have 1-3 drone/scvs/probes afk and it starts to add up. Then it gets to a point i have 2k minerals ;|
Learning to properly manage my macro was the biggest single jump in skill I've made. Focusing solely on it took me from D to D+ in a few days. And I've only gotten marginally better in the 2 years since then, lol. I blame taking long breaks of only watching proleague. xD
You want to develop a cycle of worker production, unit production, and supply production. You really have to hardwire this into your brain through practise before it becomes natural to you. In the meantime, don't be afraid to que up workers, make several supply units at once, and an excess of production facilities. I really want to stress the last point, actually. Make significantly more factories/gateways/hatcheries than you see good players make when you get to mid/late game. Accept that you will slip up on your macro here and there and take advantage of the buffer this can give you. It is so, so much better to have too many and have wasted 300 minerals or so (although this is rarely ever the case) than to have 2000 minerals stack up and have a handicapped army. Eventually your builds will become more refined, but begin with airing on the side of too much production infrastructure.
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Today I went 0 and 12.
With no yet any game that was "close"
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On March 10 2010 16:45 heaven- wrote:
yeah high upkeep you dont want to get unless you have a serious econ advantage.
actually you sometimes don't even want to go above no upkeep depending on the situation.
Like elf vs orc. They basically stay 50 all game, and orc has to go above 60 or they never will win. ;p
You will see alot of good orcs sort of do quick hit and runs vs elf trying to hit wells to stall them below or at 50 while the orc army gets ahead. Even the 50 vs 70 fight sometimes goes bad for the orc. Frankly Orc is overpowered, however its a very unforgiving race, no mistake can be made early game or gg.
And in SC... man not getting a single win vs my friend is frustrating me. but i guess thats gonna be the pattern for a while.
don't play too good players all the time or you might lose the will to play, and you'd be missin' out on a great game. Make sure you treat yourself with a win now and then, even if its againt a D- player, just to be reminded that you did actually learn something.
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On March 10 2010 17:04 heaven- wrote:
Today I went 0 and 12.
With no yet any game that was "close"
better than my first day T_T
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On March 10 2010 19:18 bluegoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2010 17:04 heaven- wrote:
Today I went 0 and 12.
With no yet any game that was "close" better than my first day T_T
?? how could it be better, you went 0-13 ?
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D+ is 6 months is completely reasonable... I did it, and starcraft is my first rts...
although I did start out 0-49...
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On March 10 2010 19:20 nttea wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2010 19:18 bluegoo wrote:On March 10 2010 17:04 heaven- wrote:
Today I went 0 and 12.
With no yet any game that was "close" better than my first day T_T ?? how could it be better, you went 0-13 ?
i went 2-25 on iccup my first day, which IMO is worse.
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the more you lose the more u learn. Its a fact of Life.
Learn From your Mistakes. PEACE!
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On March 10 2010 19:46 aznhockeyboy16 wrote:
D+ is 6 months is completely reasonable... I did it, and starcraft is my first rts...
although I did start out 0-49...
I admire your endurance!!
Congrat on Ds though')
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i think that with sc2 coming this is the worst time ever to start playing bw. in my opinion you should simply wait until sc2 finish the beta and start playing that game..i don't see the sense to put much effort to become a good sc player now
and no i am not trolling
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sc2 wont come out till like the end of the year. And my computer cannot handle sc2 (its old)
So by the time sc2 comes out, I'd say 8 months. And i Have saved enough money to build a new powerhouse computer (about 1 year). I would be a sc1 B+ Baby.
:D
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heaven-
I think your approach is good and I don't think I can add much more in terms of advice, so instead I'll add you on msn and connect you to some people who shouldn't be too much ahead of your level, because I find getting practice partners at your own level is much better than iccup massgaming against randoms(random skill levels too)
Gl with your goal!
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On March 11 2010 01:25 heaven- wrote:
sc2 wont come out till like the end of the year. And my computer cannot handle sc2 (its old)
So by the time sc2 comes out, I'd say 8 months. And i Have saved enough money to build a new powerhouse computer (about 1 year). I would be a sc1 B+ Baby.
:D
It's nice to have high expectations, but I don't think you understand how good B+ players are. Stay reasonable and you won't get discouraged and quit. Try and get C in my opinion.
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On March 09 2010 17:32 heaven- wrote:
1. The depth of the game it self, even with the tiny bit of knowledge I have gotten from this game i can say that this game is easily 10x more complex and deep than wc3.
You sir, don't know what are you talking about.
And jumping to conclusions after aquiring a "tiny bit of knowledge" is a very bad thing.
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I got to D+ in 2 months. Its not hard if you put in time to improve, and I would have kept playing but school started again and I didnt have time to just keep gaming and watching videos and gaming etc etc.
Find a good clan to join as they usually will not hesitate in helping you improve. They also give you a steady source of people to play against.
Sounds like mechanics is your major problem, drones // minerals etc. Majority of my hotkeys are on buildings rather then units, that way i can keep building while controlling my army.
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B+ in a year is completely realistic if you're ready to play 25+ games a day and know how to practice efficiently and have very good practice partners/helpers, otherwise lol no.
On March 10 2010 23:26 LuDwig- wrote:
i think that with sc2 coming this is the worst time ever to start playing bw. in my opinion you should simply wait until sc2 finish the beta and start playing that game..i don't see the sense to put much effort to become a good sc player now
and no i am not trolling
I'd say that if he was looking to become a progamer or make any profit but if he just wants to get good and have fun there is no wrong in choosing SC1 over SC2, its not like the game is going to completely disappear after SC2 is released. Hell even War2 still has a small scene around it and that game never reached what SC1 did.
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well the B+ in a year was just joke. im just really interested in this game.
So much deeper than wc3. So fun.
Either way sc2 wont be happening in a long time despite the early beta.... and even if it came out early im not in the economic situation to buy a new computer.
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you ever have issues hosting a replay. game keep saying : "A game with that Name already exists" even tho i made the game name like 234o82u235235203 lol...
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That happens when you're not using the most recent iccup map pack.
Try another map.
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On March 10 2010 16:45 heaven- wrote:
yeah high upkeep you dont want to get unless you have a serious econ advantage.
actually you sometimes don't even want to go above no upkeep depending on the situation.
Like elf vs orc. They basically stay 50 all game, and orc has to go above 60 or they never will win. ;p
You will see alot of good orcs sort of do quick hit and runs vs elf trying to hit wells to stall them below or at 50 while the orc army gets ahead. Even the 50 vs 70 fight sometimes goes bad for the orc. Frankly Orc is overpowered, however its a very unforgiving race, no mistake can be made early game or gg.
And in SC... man not getting a single win vs my friend is frustrating me. but i guess thats gonna be the pattern for a while.
Really, if he's C- don't expect to win =/ the skill difference between even one rank is quite large. Iiiif you as kme.
Also about the game making, that happens when you're making a ladder/melee game and it isn't a standard iCCup map with the little |iCCup| before it.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
are you practicing mutalisk micro yet heaven?!
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i practiced some.
Kind of tough, my mutas tend to hover over enemy and not attack by the time i run them away again.
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On March 11 2010 09:00 Nub4ever wrote:
Also about the game making, that happens when you're making a ladder/melee game and it isn't a standard iCCup map with the little |iCCup| before it.
Even tho its just a replay???
Ooops sorry about the double post.
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I'm in a similar boat. I've played SC on and off for several years, but I've never been very good. After watching a few replays I realized my game is totally vs computer oriented and I need to relearn alot. A google search for starcraft strategies brought me here and I've been reading up quite a bit on tactics and junk.
What I really need at this point is to play some human players who actually respond to my actions instead of a computer AI that throw itself at my walls of tanks/cannons/etc I've built
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Hitting this wall of frustration at my inability to beat anyone
not used to it.....
not used to losing at all :"(
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On March 11 2010 11:23 heaven- wrote:Hitting this wall of frustration at my inability to beat anyone not used to it..... not used to losing at all :"(
it's 100% normal, actually, you have an advantage over most people who started playing, because you actually are organized
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.................... bah its extremely frustrating.
mb im hoping for too much too fast.
but man this is frustrating, what really pisses me off is people who join my D- games
and play like C-
idk why ppl like to pretend to be D-
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well heaven, those ppl are called smurfs.
they intentionally paly as a lower rank just to get easy wins. =\
and welcome to the teamliquid/starcraft community! hope you have a fun time playing the game. PM if you want to play some time!
edit: don't get frustrated if you lose a lot. A friend of mine told me that you have lose a bunch of games on iccup first before you start to win consistently.
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Some people are really mean to new players haha.
I mean i did tittle my games F/D- haha what did they expect.
sigh... i think i need to stop for a bit take a break or something im like 1-32.
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Lol i was listening to Day9 commentate in a game.
And hes adorable (no homo).
lol makes me laugh.
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ICCUP is pretty difficult right now. You caught the start of the season, so most people won't be at their usual rank yet =\ I'm a C-~ player and I've been D- twice so far (this season), chillin at 925 right now.
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On March 09 2010 17:44 Robinsa wrote:Perfectly realistic to become C- in 6 months considering you have RTS experiance already. Of course it's going to depend on how much effort youre willing to put into it. If you ask Kolll he'd say you suck unless you get B- by then end of your first 6 months or so.. ^^
damn you must be an rts god >>
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wtf. Did day9's livestream room disappear??/
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On March 11 2010 13:20 Saturnize wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2010 17:44 Robinsa wrote:Perfectly realistic to become C- in 6 months considering you have RTS experiance already. Of course it's going to depend on how much effort youre willing to put into it. If you ask Kolll he'd say you suck unless you get B- by then end of your first 6 months or so.. ^^ damn you must be an rts god >>
I heard on the "Hyungjun becomes a progamer" show that it takes at least 6 months of doing nothing but playing starcraft with the best, most dedicated trainer to go from just starting to winning courage. You'd need to be at least Korean A- level (better than foreign A-) to win courage, so B- isn't too unrealistic.
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On March 11 2010 13:27 heaven- wrote:
wtf. Did day9's livestream room disappear??/
working for me :|
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oh no what did i do :'(
:'(
that guy is a brilliant errr what would you call it.. Commentator? Advisor?
Ill call him prof.
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Really, play out of the blue is difficult, you have too many things to figure out yourself.
I recommend you watching replays in the rep section. Watching pro's VOD is gonna help to.
By that you can learn the timing, the reason of actions that those good players make, and many positioning as well.
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Yea, it's gonna be a while before you start getting on your winning streak. ICCUP is quite high standard for a new player even at D level. Especially with all the smurfs floating around.
Focus on macro. Macro wins games in droves at low levels. Just get in the habit of always constantly have something building in your production facilities no matter what. And try to keep your mineral count below 1k. If you see it going up really high, but you're producing stuff well then add more production facilities. You can never have too many! (until you get to higher level anyways x])
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I'm happy to see you've seen the light lol jk... just one tip from me is don't get discouraged when you lose, because sc can be a very frustrating game if you lose your cool and makes a lot of ppl angry cuz you put so much effort and trying to do everything right and you want to play a straight up long standard macro game and the guy cheeses you stomping your efforts. so just keep cool and keep playing and enjoy!
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Yeah definitely trying to not get discouraged.
Day9 videos really cheered me up.
I liked something he said, he said you should not feel bad when you see you have a big issue, instead be glad you know exactly what to work on. Man is a genius, love the guy (no homo).
With that said I am beginning to think that Although i want to stick to my original idea of playing all races and learning a build at a time, i wont be skipping around from race to race. Ill learn a build for all matches as protoss for example. then move on to terran or zerg etc... Just dont know which one to begin with cuz they all soo fun to play?
I do have another question. It is clear to me that in sc you need to basically hotkey all the way to 9 or 0. Listening to D9 hes talking about going 5sz 6sz 7zs etc... For 5 and 6 im fine but once it gets up there im debating whether you are supposed to quickly move your right hand and use it for the numbers... or just use left hand and click Select larva for example and then hit Z.
thoughts????
Edit:
Another issue im going to have to learn to resolve is time management. I live with my gf and shes getting a lil annoyed of the time im spending on the computer.
And I do waste sometime just sort of doing alot of nothing....gotta buckel down.
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For using the higher number hotkeys it's just a matter of learning how to use your hand. zerg macro can easily be done once you are comfortable with the motions. Look at progamer hands while they warm up or during a game and see how the hand can be used.
Also I think T and P are the most fun, but I think I have a natural hatred against zerg xD
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On March 11 2010 16:25 heaven- wrote:
Day9 videos really cheered me up.
I liked something he said, he said you should not feel bad when you see you have a big issue, instead be glad you know exactly what to work on. Man is a genius, love the guy (no homo).
day9 is amazing.
On March 11 2010 16:25 heaven- wrote:(...)For 5 and 6 im fine but once it gets up there im debating whether you are supposed to quickly move your right hand and use it for the numbers... or just use left hand and click Select larva for example and then hit Z.
Neither. Don't ever release your mouse - the left hand is for key management. But also, don't get accustomed to click-build/research things. You need to learn them hot keys! Actually, you should be this anal about it - whenever you find yourself clicking to do a research or build a unit/building, stop to check out its hot key and use that instead. It will be hard to do at first, but it will serve you well in the long run.
I believe most zergs use like 1-4 for units and 5+ for hatches. 5sz6sz7sz8sz etc shouldn't be to hard to get the hang on, and it's more important anyway to be able to 1a2a3a4a fast. That is - while macroing is certainly your main focus, a zerg army that doesn't attack all at once but one group at a time is a wasted army.
On March 11 2010 16:25 heaven- wrote:
Another issue im going to have to learn to resolve is time management. I live with my gf and shes getting a lil annoyed of the time im spending on the computer.
And I do waste sometime just sort of doing alot of nothing....gotta buckel down.
I guess this could actually be a good thing. I know very well how easy it is to jsut sit around and waste time. Try to be efficient when sitting down to practice - get in a routine of maybe checking your thread here at tl.net and then go game/watch reps to learn. Try to get motivated and psyched before setting down so you are ready to go right into the fray. You may end up doing a lot more than someone sitting in his own apartment without a hissy gf around. =)
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Hello.
I've been playing Starcraft ever since it came out. But! But, I played only singleplayer, and only recently I've started playing it over battle net and with my friends. (While we wait for StarCraft 2).
I hope you don't mind me hijacking this thread, but I need help (how obvious)
I'll upload replays of me and my friend playing,
and ask you if you could watch it and reflect on it, please.
I main Zerg and want to get better with them. I've read topics that are recommended and also things on liquipedia. I usually go with 3 hatch muta, but my Terran friend managed to beat me with the build order shown in replay.
Here are the rared replays: [url blocked]
Edit: I finally found the "New topic" button only to be stopped by the 3 day 'trial' before I can post new topics.
Since, obviously you are really dedicated StarCraft players, and dedicate whole threads to one person in order to help him, if my post is in the way of helping heaven, mods can move it to a new thread.
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lol i was so psyched about coming home to some sc that i forgot where i parked at my college... so im like "oh noes sc!"
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On March 11 2010 18:08 hefty wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 16:25 heaven- wrote:
Day9 videos really cheered me up.
I liked something he said, he said you should not feel bad when you see you have a big issue, instead be glad you know exactly what to work on. Man is a genius, love the guy (no homo).
day9 is amazing. Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 16:25 heaven- wrote:(...)For 5 and 6 im fine but once it gets up there im debating whether you are supposed to quickly move your right hand and use it for the numbers... or just use left hand and click Select larva for example and then hit Z. Neither. Don't ever release your mouse
This is not good advice imo, there's nothing wrong with leaving your mouse to macro with both hands. Pro gamers do it too.
And I mean why not, ur not going to do anything with your mouse while you 5sh6sh7sh8sh9sh anyways so you might as well speed up the process by using both hands.
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Dont' worry if you are uncomfortable with all the keys.
Jaedong is a beast and he only uses 7 hotkeys =D
(Though most use them all or up to 9)
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getting the hang of a couple of builds now.
Really realizing how unforgiving this game is.
If you are like 30 second you can lose the game.
<3
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On March 12 2010 09:33 heaven- wrote: getting the hang of a couple of builds now. Really realizing how unforgiving this game is. If you are like 30 second you can lose the game. <3
Yeah, even at like D level one mistake can cost you the game
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Well day 2 ends with a 1-9 Record I didnt play as much cuz i spent alot practicing build vs computer.
Still getting ass raped .
I need some Day9 now to cheer me up.
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Better than my first games :D my first ~100 games were all losses T_T lol
mass game at this rate U'll be c- in no time :D
I fail at typing on my
iPod
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Thanks for the support :D
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On March 12 2010 14:43 heaven- wrote:
Thanks for the support :D
Just keep at it man. You're improving more than you can feel right now.
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I'm glad relatively unbiased eyes see SC as a more intricate venture than war3 :D. Not sure if someone's mentioned it, but I'd also recommend you start watching some good ol day9 daily in your spare time:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=104154
He's pretty much the foremost god of information in regards to sc2. I don't really know of anyone else that's been in the biz longer or more helpful/concise than he.
Careful on youtube with game commentators, though, not everyone knows what they're talking about.
EDIT: I'm retarded and someone already suggested day9 I guess.
Getting raped repeatedly is good as long as you're learning from it. Watch replays of your losses and try to find out what went wrong. It may be frustrating but it's a very important part of the process. Many of my newbie friends react be constantly grinding games and not knowing why they're losing and not getting very much better as a result. I was fortunate enough to have a buddy to talk to during the learning process (randomko_orean is my roomie) so I had quite a leg up in the treacherous beginnings, perhaps you may know someone that knows a thing or two about sc. Keep up the good work staying in touch with the community!
If getting raped repeatedly is discouraging you, I'd recommend (for now) you start to settle down on one race that you feel you have a preference for right now.
i.e. spend a good amount of time playing exclusively one race, get a good feel of it, get builds down and the MU's down, and then move on to another race when you're comfortable. Perhaps the next race you play being the one you are doing the best against with your current race, etc.
It is extremely difficult to learn all 3 races at once IMO because you don't get any repetition.
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Here we go about to begin day 3 of my Sc adventure! :O
I decided to really focus on my build of PVZ for now. Gonna probably spend a couple of hours just working on the build again and again then try to play some zergs see how it goes.
But first, while i eat I'm gonna watch a d9 thingy.
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Concentrating on one matchup first, even better.
IMO, P by nature is the most forgiving race for noobs to start out with, good choice.
PvZ also happens to be THE most epic mu in the game
I'm not biased I swear...
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Valhalla18444 Posts
Hey I know this is your 'help me' strategy thread and all but posting just a smiley face really isn't acceptable around here
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oh, My apologies. Had no idea there were rules against smileys.
But what better convey how excited I am atm :D.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
Posting a smiley face is just fine, here look I'll do it too so you don't feel self-conscious :D
We expect a little more out of an individual post, though.
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On March 13 2010 08:02 zomgzergrush wrote:
Concentrating on one matchup first, even better.
IMO, P by nature is the most forgiving race for noobs to start out with, good choice.
PvZ also happens to be THE most epic mu in the game
I'm not biased I swear...
buuuut I'm not EXACTLY sure but once you get around the C~ ranks P start having quite a hard time, sair reaver and those builds take LOTS of apm. I've heard of people talking about switching races then, it's hard as T takes a lot of positioning and army management and Zerg macro is with hatcheries everywhere.
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On March 09 2010 17:32 heaven- wrote:REHABILITATED* (sorry it was like 3 AM ;p) First of all I'd like to apologize in advanced if I am posting this in the wrong spot. Hello I am completely new to sc...... weird enough too as I have played wc3 for 4 years and some wc2 before then. But anyway I want to start by saying that I am soooo amazed by 2 things in sc. 1. The depth of the game it self, even with the tiny bit of knowledge I have gotten from this game i can say that this game is easily 10x more complex and deep than wc3. 2. The community support. It is huge, 1000x bigger than wc3's. This website is amazing there is so many resources and knowledge its incredible. And looks like i picked up the game at a perfect time too, got to watch my first sc vods and they were the TSL. So nice. I am not even going to begin with the "Im new what do I dew" question because there is just so many resources available on this site. Its just great! Anyway my goal is to get decently good at this game. So if you have any suggestions I would love all the help i can get. I have been reading liquipedia and watching vods and some replays already. This is my plan of action and I'd love some feedback on what you think. if its a good idea or not. I really don't want to pick a permanent race at the moment as i want to have a broader view of the game. But this is the way i see it. There is a total of 6 match ups in this game (mirrors included), but 9 match ups to learn (i.e TvsP, PvsT). From what I have seen there is almost endless amounts of strats to do per match up. I mean if you just look at build orders on liquipedia there is like 8 builds per match up. So that already seems very overwhelming(in wc3 there is like 1 build per match up, and if you are orc 1 build period haha). So my plan is basically to take it a step at a time and sort of learn 2 basic strats per match but learn 1 and 1/2 at a time. Let me explain the 1/2. For example I want to start with learning ZvsT build 2/3 Hatch muta (getting some of the lingo down ! ) . So spend time learning the strat perfecting etc... that is taking care of 1, but also i feel like i'll be half learning some TvsZ. Then I would move on to learning PvsZ a build there etc... Sort of knocking it down 1 match up at a time. At the same time working on the mechanics. (This is the technique i used to learn to play the piano. Took it one song at a time till i perfected a song moved on to a different chord etc feel like it was a faster way to learn the instrument than what i did to learn the violin which was a much broader learn a lil of everything at once approach..) After that i suppose the next step would be to chose a race and further improve on what I have already learned. Let me know what you guys think. I do have one question, How ambitious is it to say that I hope to be Rank D+/C- iccup Within 6 months. Is it crazy? or achievable? What about C? I know it would probably be easier if i stick to one race but I am weird like that and I refuse to do it! . Anyway sorry for the long long post, any suggestions advice anything is appreciated. Thanks in advanced!!
Hi Im a C/C- terran and protoss user. im also a leader of team [FuN]. we help new guys like you out all the time. op [FuN] on iccup. we also have vent. pm me for vent info if you ever want to come on and game with us.Our biggest success was Blade[FuN] started 2 seasons ago. he came from one of those other gay games lol no offense, i think it was something with germans or some shit. anyways. he Got 4789 points his second season of iccup and high D+ his first. Fortunetly for him he also got a sc2 beta key lol lucky kid. anyways com on by sometime we will game
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That sounds great Drums.
my iccup account is Negato
and my msn: Yeah_f_u2@hotmail.com
I just got back from work, imma eat dinner and brb. Time to start up some SC!
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K well i doubt you'll hit C any time soon but you should learn the races and as soon as you seem to be good at 1 of the 3 start focusing more attention on that race :D.
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On March 14 2010 04:11 Drums wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2010 17:32 heaven- wrote:REHABILITATED* (sorry it was like 3 AM ;p) First of all I'd like to apologize in advanced if I am posting this in the wrong spot. Hello I am completely new to sc...... weird enough too as I have played wc3 for 4 years and some wc2 before then. But anyway I want to start by saying that I am soooo amazed by 2 things in sc. 1. The depth of the game it self, even with the tiny bit of knowledge I have gotten from this game i can say that this game is easily 10x more complex and deep than wc3. 2. The community support. It is huge, 1000x bigger than wc3's. This website is amazing there is so many resources and knowledge its incredible. And looks like i picked up the game at a perfect time too, got to watch my first sc vods and they were the TSL. So nice. I am not even going to begin with the "Im new what do I dew" question because there is just so many resources available on this site. Its just great! Anyway my goal is to get decently good at this game. So if you have any suggestions I would love all the help i can get. I have been reading liquipedia and watching vods and some replays already. This is my plan of action and I'd love some feedback on what you think. if its a good idea or not. I really don't want to pick a permanent race at the moment as i want to have a broader view of the game. But this is the way i see it. There is a total of 6 match ups in this game (mirrors included), but 9 match ups to learn (i.e TvsP, PvsT). From what I have seen there is almost endless amounts of strats to do per match up. I mean if you just look at build orders on liquipedia there is like 8 builds per match up. So that already seems very overwhelming(in wc3 there is like 1 build per match up, and if you are orc 1 build period haha). So my plan is basically to take it a step at a time and sort of learn 2 basic strats per match but learn 1 and 1/2 at a time. Let me explain the 1/2. For example I want to start with learning ZvsT build 2/3 Hatch muta (getting some of the lingo down ! ) . So spend time learning the strat perfecting etc... that is taking care of 1, but also i feel like i'll be half learning some TvsZ. Then I would move on to learning PvsZ a build there etc... Sort of knocking it down 1 match up at a time. At the same time working on the mechanics. (This is the technique i used to learn to play the piano. Took it one song at a time till i perfected a song moved on to a different chord etc feel like it was a faster way to learn the instrument than what i did to learn the violin which was a much broader learn a lil of everything at once approach..) After that i suppose the next step would be to chose a race and further improve on what I have already learned. Let me know what you guys think. I do have one question, How ambitious is it to say that I hope to be Rank D+/C- iccup Within 6 months. Is it crazy? or achievable? What about C? I know it would probably be easier if i stick to one race but I am weird like that and I refuse to do it! . Anyway sorry for the long long post, any suggestions advice anything is appreciated. Thanks in advanced!! Hi Im a C/C- terran and protoss user. im also a leader of team [FuN]. we help new guys like you out all the time. op [FuN] on iccup. we also have vent. pm me for vent info if you ever want to come on and game with us.Our biggest success was Blade[FuN] started 2 seasons ago. he came from one of those other gay games lol no offense, i think it was something with germans or some shit. anyways. he Got 4789 points his second season of iccup and high D+ his first. Fortunetly for him he also got a sc2 beta key lol lucky kid. anyways com on by sometime we will game
i sent you a pm too
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bah, wanted to play sc today but wc3 clan war today... vs a ridiculously strong team we have probably no chance against but oh well gotta try.
kod ftw.
then back to sc! rawr.
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I suggest to you to start learning game mechanic having fun (better with friends).
Start sc learning BOs will be boring and frustrating after some days then you just change game ^^
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if i get discouraged i watch day9 or a rep and my motivation sky rockets again :D
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i hate in toss mirror (at this level at least) how the guy that sits and hides at his base is usually the winner. i hate that type of playstyle. just sit there and turtle
Its just easier to defend a ramp and micro/macro right next to your base than to push out.
><
Still suffering from terrible macro.
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Hey heaven, I'm getting on soonish and I'm not great, but I'm not terrible. I can play any race decently while I'm better at P, but everything needs work on my end too. So....add N3rV[420] and taco420
I pop in and out a lot
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On March 16 2010 03:37 heaven- wrote: i hate in toss mirror (at this level at least) how the guy that sits and hides at his base is usually the winner. i hate that type of playstyle. just sit there and turtle Its just easier to defend a ramp and micro/macro right next to your base than to push out. >< Still suffering from terrible macro.
When they turtle, set up a contain and then outmacro them by taking another expansion. If you're having trouble doing this on a map like Python, try it on Destination first: the double-bridges makes it VERY hard for a turtling Toss player to break the contain due to needing to funnel their units across. It basically forces them into a harrass-orientated play. if you keep adequate defences at your expansions, say a cannon or two (which is fine if you have the base advantage), their harrass won't work all that well.
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lol just played a guy who felt extremely proud that he beat me by pretending to be D-
Kind of funny how close the game was, I would have been embarrassed not proud that i almost lost to a guy who's played for 4 days.
"hahaha im no D- hahah"
ok
:D
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Man, I keep jumping between D- and D.
So rough
My friend got C- in like 3 months.
My goal was 6... i wonder how he did it.
Even more, i wonder how Zenio got A- in a year :O
I wonder what Day9 would say?
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On March 17 2010 03:40 heaven- wrote:Man, I keep jumping between D- and D. So rough My friend got C- in like 3 months. My goal was 6... i wonder how he did it. Even more, i wonder how Zenio got A- in a year :O I wonder what Day9 would say?
I hope I'm not just an idiot but who's Zenio? Also often people just make new accounts or smurfs so if you're looking at their profile on iCCup it may not be correct.
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1. The depth of the game it self, even with the tiny bit of knowledge I have gotten from this game i can say that this game is easily 10x more complex and deep than wc3.
YES YESSSSSSSSSSSSS <3
HE UNDERSTANDS!
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Just curious, don't you have any school work to do?
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On March 17 2010 05:37 Nub4ever wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 03:40 heaven- wrote:Man, I keep jumping between D- and D. So rough My friend got C- in like 3 months. My goal was 6... i wonder how he did it. Even more, i wonder how Zenio got A- in a year :O I wonder what Day9 would say? I hope I'm not just an idiot but who's Zenio? Also often people just make new accounts or smurfs so if you're looking at their profile on iCCup it may not be correct.
Zenio is an ex-WC3 progamer if I remember right.
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On March 17 2010 07:31 theramstoss wrote:
Just curious, don't you have any school work to do?
yeah thats exactly why i have like 2 hours if that a day.
i go to school in morning then work till night, i play at night. tho its spring break right now...
:D
Zenio wasn't exactly a pro-gamer.
he didnt get paid i dont think. He was an orc player, who played for a Chinese team called eXpertise.
He was a decent orc player. Did not get much done tho, couple of league wins here and there.
Assuming he never played sc before ( which he probably did, since he is Korean)
getting A- in a year is pretty good.
Even if he started as D+/C player already still good. I dare say C+ even.
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this is not warcraft 3, Macro > micro
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hmm. I got a sc2 beta key.
lol well i guess my plans have changed eh
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EPT
