EPTwhen will people finally realize that a match up CAN NOT BE IMBALANCED
u can just not look at any match up except mirror match ups without knowing on which map its played..
the map plays such an important role..
its not the match up..
dear lord..
Improving PvZ Balance: Discussion Needed - Page 6
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
when will people finally realize that a match up CAN NOT BE IMBALANCED u can just not look at any match up except mirror match ups without knowing on which map its played.. the map plays such an important role.. its not the match up.. dear lord.. | ||
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Misrah
United States1695 Posts
Sigh- how many of these threads are up now? what a shame.... | ||
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Glaucus
479 Posts
But let's say PvZ is really imbalanced at progamer level and Blizzard fixes it, how the hell is a new player ever going to win a ZvP. I play terran and sometimes I think ZvP is even more imbalanced than TvP, which is ridiculous already. It's annoying how the topic starter tries to prevent everyone from discussing the issue of imbalance. It's stupid. And stop acting so childish. But people need to realize that SC isn't balanced. You can't even show if its possible for a game to be balanced. And even stats don't mean much since it's very possible that at any level of skill certain races have just the more skilled players. I will bet that at iccup at D+- level 1/3th of the terrans used to be C- with either Z or P and played more than twice as long as their D+ opponents. It's very possible that P players are just less skilled at progamer level. Also, the fact that P can't do anything that autowins, which they seemed to be used to, doesn't mean it's imbalanced. In TvP a terran feels abused even when he's winning. Remember that Iris vs Bisu game. T won but it was so ugly for T. P players are used to PvT, which is imbalanced at all levels of play in the same way. And when they play PvZ and they just have a strategic disadvantage they think it's imbalance. Fact is that Z can't stand up against a protoss army because of storm and reavers. Fact is that hive units, which are so absurd in ZvT, don't do so much. The way SC works is just imbalanced. Z has dark swarm, which is an absurd ability. Then T has irradiate, which seems strong but isn't really. It just seems strong because it's the only way to not autolose and it's strong because it prevents zerg from using such an overpowered ability. All matchups are about overpowered abilities and countering them. Problem with protoss is just that it's too easy to play. You can't really do anything fancy with it. So progamers struggle sometimes. But it's still overpowered. Just watch Movie vs Zero. How is protoss imbalanced? And one can list like 10 PvT's where T should have won because P played so bad. And P's never lose because of imba. When P loses a PvT it's easy to see how they could have won if they just didn't play bad. Jangbi vs Really comes to mind. If you were want to do something about PvZ strategically and make it more even, you can make it so a corsair builds faster. Maybe stargates build faster and corsair does at well. Have it cost less gas maybe. Have it not die to 2 scourge and remove the splash damage that kills infinitely many scourge and mutas if you have 5 or more. But then they should also nerf storm. That way mutas will also be less powerful  In the end zerg will always have the advantage at extremely high level because they can fine tune their builds perfectly because of how larva and drones work. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
On December 21 2009 18:34 Misrah wrote: still with p players cry themselves to sleep? Daum you should try zvt, then come back and complain. Sigh- how many of these threads are up now? what a shame.... I did try ZvT. I prefer it to PvT... I'd still be race-picking ZvT/ZvZ/PvZ/PvP if CSL allowed it. EDIT: Glaucus, you're why we can't have a balance discussion thread. | ||
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DarthThienAn
United States2734 Posts
On December 21 2009 19:02 Severedevil wrote: I did try ZvT. I prefer it to PvT... I'd still be race-picking ZvT/ZvZ/PvZ/PvP if CSL allowed it. EDIT: Glaucus, you're why we can't have a balance discussion thread. lol we do allow it. You just have to guess correctly whether or not your opponent will be terran before the lineups go in (ie. figure out what opponent you will get on your map). Then you can play P / ZvT. =], or Z / PvP. | ||
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edahl
Norway483 Posts
boost obs: making observers take 2 scourge to kill instead of 1 would significantly affect the matchup. Has PvT implications, I admit. Just make the scourge do explosive damage. I imagine the obs is a small unit, while every other flier unit in the game is large. So it wouldn't break anything. | ||
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Leath
Canada1724 Posts
On December 21 2009 22:24 edahl wrote: Just make the scourge do explosive damage. I imagine the obs is a small unit, while every other flier unit in the game is large. So it wouldn't break anything. Scourges doing explosive damage would only affect ZvZ actually. Explosive damage does 50% vs small units, and the only small air units are: Mutalisks, Scourges, Observers and interceptors. Scourges would still kill observer in one hit it has 20 shield, 40 hitpoints. Therefore a scourge would damage it by 110 110 - 20 shield = 90 damage left 90/2 = 45 - 40 hitpoints = 0 (with 5 damage exceeding) Boosting the obs would affect PvT probably. Turrets do not prioritize between observers/shuttle. If it takes scourges more hits to kill the observer, so will take a turret. It would make reaver drops and zealot bombs even more devastating PvT.  PS: PvZ is not imbalance t.t Just practice it more. Im a protoss player and makes me sad to see MANLY protoss players whining. Leave that for the girly races. | ||
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edahl
Norway483 Posts
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phaleos
Australia105 Posts
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Chill
Calgary26004 Posts
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