EPT[I] Flare TvZ - Page 4
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Misrah
United States1695 Posts
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Severedevil
United States4838 Posts
If you have ghost + nuke, and M&M, I see the logic in using optic flare, but ghost+nuke is not currently competitive. There doesn't seem to be much incentive in dropping ghosts over dropping + stimming regular infantry. Admittedly, I am still curious as to whether or not nuke would be a reasonable way to bust a Zerg's front, when the Zerg is massing sunkens to hold off the push until swarm, and if you were try, including optic flare to prevent a snipe on the ghost might serve a purpose. Probably it just takes too long to get the nuke, particularly when you need the tanks anyway to shove lurkers around (in a 9-minute push). | ||
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caldo149
United States469 Posts
use flare on Lurkers harassing expansions. Sometimes Zerg will use a Lurker or 2 and just try to mess with your shit but instead of trying to kill the Lurker(s) you could just blind 'em and maybe save some marines...? Medics might be faster than trying to get tanks to the expansion. This is more of an issue in late game. | ||
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StalkerSC
Canada378 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
On November 24 2009 05:57 cgrinker wrote: First off that game was fucking awesome, and against By.hero. Second that build was fucking awesome and was obviously to check out walling vs Zergling rush on outsider. Third, if there was another game against gogo I sound like a dbag right now. fourth, that build is going into LP just as soon as I figure out how to put them in there. It's not exactly standard, and tough to pull off. | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On November 24 2009 07:08 Gnarly wrote: You're off topic. Quit discussing wraiths and medics being together. I'm not, and I'm the OP, so quit derailing this thread. I don't know why you guys just don't get it. I have decided to not open your threads/blogs from now on. For my own good. | ||
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Misrah
United States1695 Posts
On November 24 2009 08:59 OneOther wrote: I have decided to not open your threads/blogs from now on. For my own good. This made me lol profusely. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. | ||
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Kyo Yuy
United States1286 Posts
On November 24 2009 06:39 Gnarly wrote: You still haven't understood what I've been saying. I'm not talking about 2port > flare, so I won't be talking about 2port > flare. It just happened to be in the OP as a thought, nothing more, and yet people like you seem to think, "Oh, let's dismiss the context of this sentence, just single out 2port > flare, say that's what he is saying, and then debate on an argument which doesn't even exist." Another thing, I know for a fact that zerg's use their overlords for scouting certain areas, and is actually recommended, instead of just keeping your ovies in your base. Yeah, sure, mutalisks can easily scout the same spot an ovie can, but they aren't gonna chill there, like an ovie would. It's like observers, you make some and put them in a certain area to check out what's going on. From liquipedia: 'If the map allows for it, Overlords should be kept above cliffs or ridges where the opponent cannot see them with a ground army. They can also just be spread around the map and retreated when a ground army is sighted so the Zerg player knows where the opponent's army is. Overlords can also be placed at potential expansion sites to monitor whether the opponent is taking an expansion. The exception to this advice is Zerg vs. Zerg." "versus Terran You must be careful when scouting Terrans with Overlords early game because just two Marines will kill it if given the opportunity. However, overlords can be placed on ridges or in areas where the Terran player cannot snipe them to watch for dropships. " If you blind them, they lose their scouting purpose. Scouting is very valuable, unless I'm just a complete noob. Get it? The only thing in my post that is specific to 2port wraiths is the second paragraph. Delete the second paragraph and everything I say pertains to the entire TvZ matchup. Overlords are NOT like observers. Observers are CLOAKED. Overlords can be shot down the moment your first marine comes out, but even if you know an observer is there, you have to invest in a turret to shoot it down/force it out of position, waste a valuable scan, or get a Science Vessel. Overlords are used to scout for expos, but they cannot be used to thoroughly scout an opponent's main past a certain point. Are you assuming that Terrans have no anti air and cannot shoot down an overlord? An Overlord that is out of attack range of turrets and marines cannot get much scouting information, meaning that Optical Flare has very little benefit. Overlords aren't the only way to scout, and rarely are they the only unit out on the map. Lurkers often hold important ramps and chokes, scourge are often patrolling around, and zerglings are everywhere. Since you are NOT just talking about cloaked wraiths, what use is there in blinding overlords when the zerg have a NUMBER of ground units and air units that can scout? Scourge are used to scout just as much as Overlords are. Same with mutalisks and zerglings. | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + because not everyone is D- like you are | ||
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Ronald_McD
Canada807 Posts
Most of the time... The energy is better used on healing your marines, and blinding your enemy's units is not worth the resources, energy, or apm it takes to make it useful. There might be some rare situations, but today's meta game favours the macro intensive play style, and focusing on gimmicky little tricks like using optical flare on a bunch of overlords is a waste. | ||
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saltywet
Hong Kong1316 Posts
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29 fps
United States5724 Posts
On November 24 2009 14:29 saltywet wrote: play me, im d- and ill let u flare my overlords lol your username is awesome. totally translates into something hilarious | ||
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LeoTheLion
China958 Posts
IF WE"RE GONNA USE COMSAT FOR SIGHT SO WE CAN BLIND THE OVERLORD WHY DON"T WE JUST KLIL IT INSTEAD | ||
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
On November 24 2009 15:11 LeoTheLion wrote: GYS I HAVE A BETTER IDEA IF WE"RE GONNA USE COMSAT FOR SIGHT SO WE CAN BLIND THE OVERLORD WHY DON"T WE JUST KLIL IT INSTEAD Lol yeah I mean, the cost of 1 starport + 1 wraith to kill those hard to reach overlords is hardly more than the cost of flare(whatever that may be) | ||
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Gnarly
United States151 Posts
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zerglingsfolife
United States1694 Posts
I can see a few useful units for flare. imagine I spawn at 5 o clock on destination. i fast expo and start adding rax/researching stim+range then flare. Zerg 2 or 3 hatch mutas and keeps me in my base for a time. Once I fight it off, I see zerg trying to burrow a lurker or 2 behind cliff, hitting my scvs mining at the natural. If Zerg has delayed my tanks with siege or science vessel tech with his muta harass, I am in a very uncomfortable position. However, with flare I can either blind his OL which is out of range of my rines (lurkers lose sight and can't hit my workers), or I can Scan once and then blind his lurk(s): *FLARE has 9 Range!* 1) end harassment at the cost of 75 or 150 mana. Potentially saving tons of minerals from lost mining time where I'd either have to A)wait for tank with siege,or B) wait for vessel with irradiate, or C)move mnm to behind my natural, delaying my ability to pressure and opening myself to a counter. Another time i can think where blind might be helpful is in late game. Imagine a ZvT on HBR. Late game I'm patrolling the map with a rogue control group of mnm trying to take out zerg expansions. I see 2/3 lurks burrowed on a ridge that would be difficult to engage with my group. I blind 2/3 lurks and can then outrange them*(if they really do get range halved when blind). I can think take out the lurks and take out the zergs expansion. These are just a few instances where I thought it could be used. | ||
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FortuneSyn
1826 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2394 Posts
*commits suicide* | ||
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FortuneSyn
1826 Posts
On November 24 2009 18:07 zerglingsfolife wrote: First off let me say I'm a D player so you can disregard my post if you like. I can see a few useful units for flare. imagine I spawn at 5 o clock on destination. i fast expo and start adding rax/researching stim+range then flare. Zerg 2 or 3 hatch mutas and keeps me in my base for a time. Once I fight it off, I see zerg trying to burrow a lurker or 2 behind cliff, hitting my scvs mining at the natural. If Zerg has delayed my tanks with siege or science vessel tech with his muta harass, I am in a very uncomfortable position. However, with flare I can either blind his OL which is out of range of my rines (lurkers lose sight and can't hit my workers), or I can Scan once and then blind his lurk(s): *FLARE has 9 Range!* 1) end harassment at the cost of 75 or 150 mana. Potentially saving tons of minerals from lost mining time where I'd either have to A)wait for tank with siege,or B) wait for vessel with irradiate, or C)move mnm to behind my natural, delaying my ability to pressure and opening myself to a counter. Another time i can think where blind might be helpful is in late game. Imagine a ZvT on HBR. Late game I'm patrolling the map with a rogue control group of mnm trying to take out zerg expansions. I see 2/3 lurks burrowed on a ridge that would be difficult to engage with my group. I blind 2/3 lurks and can then outrange them*(if they really do get range halved when blind). I can think take out the lurks and take out the zergs expansion. These are just a few instances where I thought it could be used. I have actually never thought of blinding lurks up a ramp to take out zerg's third, nice! | ||
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ejac
United States1195 Posts
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