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The zerg is very good, my stimpack is late, and my macro isn't great. That said, comments on this game would be appreciated. In particular, the wraith harass seemed to be completely in vain, considering the size and strength of his hydra/mute army that attacked when i was hoping to secure my natural.
I get the feeling that even with better macro, no mar/med/wraith army could win at that timing. Should I already have my natural built with turrets? Did I turtle in my main too much? I'm used to defending an earlier hydra or muta strike on a 2h timing, but not so much a 3h mixed army.
Good TL terran players, what would you have done differently? Specifics instead of "improve your macro" would be appreciated.
Thanks!
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watching rep! i use 2port wraith a lot so i could help you out 
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OK, the first thing ill tell you is, why dont you make that factory in a proxy position? at 13scv u can go to one of the expansions (11 or 1) and build the factory there, that way the first vulture will really hurt him and keep him busy till the wraiths arrive.
Second, the first wraiths, use them to kill scouting overlords, that is, set the rally points of the SP to the places where the scouting overlord might be, this is important! the first things you should kill with the wraith are overlords. When you arrived at his base you started killing drones, you should have waited a bit before that, searched for other ovies and kill them, so his psi gets red and cant get more drones/hidras for a while or his only option is the get one of them, not both.
Also, one hydra can be taken out by wraith xp if he defends with very few hidras take them out with a bit of micro, stackthem and hold/atack or w/e.
Aaaaaand, the best of advices, macro a bit more, sometimes i use this BO and my gas just isnt enough, you had like 500 gas or more with only 4 or 5 wraith. You need a lot of them to take drones in one shot ( i think 6 or 7) and 11 to ake ovies in one. Thats the critical mass you need to have, but in the meantime harass a bit.
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OK, the first thing ill tell you is, why dont you make that factory in a proxy position? at 13scv u can go to one of the expansions (11 or 1) and build the factory there, that way the first vulture will really hurt him and keep him busy till the wraiths arrive.
Second, the first wraiths, use them to kill scouting overlords, that is, set the rally points of the SP to the places where the scouting overlord might be, this is important! the first things you should kill with the wraith are overlords. When you arrived at his base you started killing drones, you should have waited a bit before that, searched for other ovies and kill them, so his psi gets red and cant get more drones/hidras for a while or his only option is the get one of them, not both.
Also, one hydra can be taken out by wraith xp if he defends with very few hidras take them out with a bit of micro, stackthem and hold/atack or w/e.
Aaaaaand, the best of advices, macro a bit more, sometimes i use this BO and my gas just isnt enough, you had like 500 gas or more with only 4 or 5 wraith. You need a lot of them to take drones in one shot ( i think 6 or 7) and 11 to ake ovies in one. Thats the critical mass you need to have, but in the meantime harass a bit.
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Ok, note that your doing a mechanical build so your god awful macro and mediocre micro is going to make it very hard to pull off.
heres the stuff I noticed:
- its 9 depot, not 8 like you did.
- You don't build another depot on 18/26
- your ports should start at 21-23 depending on whether you made a vulture
- you must make wraiths more consistently. You can't wait 30 seconds to start like you did in this game.
- split your first 2 wraiths across the map to scout for ovies. On desti send them up the two sides after checking the sides of your main.
- start your control tower for cloak after your 2nd wraith against 2 hatch and 4th wraith against 3 hatch.
- your macro transition is ridculously bad. I mean you cant expect to beat semi competant players if you 4 rax off 1 base before academy.
- early game you could have done a ton of damage with your wraiths if youd tried to. He had 2 hydras when you arrived. With good (better) micro you could have killed several drones and ovies.
overall alot of problems that need to be addressed here. Against the 3 hat your opponent did you can consider adding a fastish 2nd cc as its debateable how successful a 1 base 3 rax transition will be.
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u did way to less damage. if u go 2port your cc will be later so u need to make some damage. first hunt his ovis and if u see 2-3 hydras kill them. if he is saving one place to good use the mobility of your wraiths and harass his main. force him to spend money on spores or hydras. when u reach the critical mass of wraiths and his spores/hydras are our of positions snipe drones/ovis in one or hydras in 2 hits. delay his 3rd with your wraiths u have mapcontroll untill he has speedovis and even than u can snipe 2 or 3 ovis very fast. if u lack in mechanics dont use this build.
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i didnt watch your replay since i read the above comments and it seems they found enough flaws already. my overall tips for 2 port Wraith:
-ling tight wall, one marine. scvs to repair if linged. i usually assign 3-4 scvs to hotkey 3 so i cant readily call them to repair if needed.
-proxy factory or don't do this BO.
-must do damage with first vult. need to kill drones. forget about lings unless they are chasing your vult. usually 2-3 vults is enough to slow them down. afterwards float your factory to their nat. its good scouting and then cant defend their main mineral line from wraiths if they are spitting at the factory.
-learn wraith micro trix. group your wraiths with an scv or marine. assuming your base is walled off your wraiths will ball up allowing easy H(old Position) or P(atrol) micro. Go for drones and overlords. Do NOT send wraiths to auto hydras. Wraiths fly and are fast. move them around gaining crucial scoutting info and causing constant threat at the Z weak points.
-i dont use cloak. its up to you. if you cant do enough damage without cloak then its not gonna help that much by the time its done imo.
-by the time they have significant hydra force for a counter attack you should have expanded with bunkers and academy online. check for expos with your wraiths. dont sacrifice them. they are quite useful in your second M&M push. )
-make sure to be on the lookout for what Z is up to with your first SCV/vulture. if you see hydra den finished and lair evolving off two hatch they are likely going lurkers. punish them quickly or be prepared at home. this is another benefit of killing the scouting ovie near your base (i.e. to prevent slow lurker drop).
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On October 18 2009 23:18 MeProU_Kor wrote:
if u lack in mechanics dont use this build.
Best advice ever
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I offraced as Zerg recently and played a T who went 2 Port. He focused pretty much entirely on killing my overlords, and it was one of the most annoying things I have ever experienced in SC. I never realized this while playing T how annoying it is for the Zerg, I usually went straight for drones when I did 2 Port.
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On October 19 2009 01:47 oo_xerox wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2009 23:18 MeProU_Kor wrote:
if u lack in mechanics dont use this build. Best advice ever
Not appreciated.
The problem is that the build isn't very well defined after placing the ports down, so it's difficult to build smoothly when you are essentially freestyling the transition. Perhaps you can point me to a good guide or offer some constructive feedback?
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On October 18 2009 22:31 Piy wrote:
Ok, note that your doing a mechanical build so your god awful macro and mediocre micro is going to make it very hard to pull off.
heres the stuff I noticed:
- its 9 depot, not 8 like you did.
- You don't build another depot on 18/26
- your ports should start at 21-23 depending on whether you made a vulture
- you must make wraiths more consistently. You can't wait 30 seconds to start like you did in this game.
- split your first 2 wraiths across the map to scout for ovies. On desti send them up the two sides after checking the sides of your main.
- start your control tower for cloak after your 2nd wraith against 2 hatch and 4th wraith against 3 hatch.
- your macro transition is ridculously bad. I mean you cant expect to beat semi competant players if you 4 rax off 1 base before academy.
- early game you could have done a ton of damage with your wraiths if youd tried to. He had 2 hydras when you arrived. With good (better) micro you could have killed several drones and ovies.
overall alot of problems that need to be addressed here. Against the 3 hat your opponent did you can consider adding a fastish 2nd cc as its debateable how successful a 1 base 3 rax transition will be.
Thanks for the comments.
Is it risky getting a quick 2nd when mutas and hydras are out? I've had pretty poor luck against hydras and speed overlords. Wouldn't tanks or medics + stim need to be ready to defend, since wraiths just crumble to hydras? Also, what's the ideal upgrade timing on infantry? I find it hard to contain a zerg with wraiths and marmed if the marmed are 0-0 against hydras.
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On October 19 2009 03:28 mmp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2009 01:47 oo_xerox wrote:On October 18 2009 23:18 MeProU_Kor wrote:
if u lack in mechanics dont use this build. Best advice ever Not appreciated. The problem is that the build isn't very well defined after placing the ports down, so it's difficult to build smoothly when you are essentially freestyling the transition. Perhaps you can point me to a good guide or offer some constructive feedback?
sarcasm maybe? -.-
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United States565 Posts
Good freestyle = good mechanics. For what i know the majority of decent/good players C+ above would freestyle once they put wraith + cloak down. They just have better mechanics to pull it off. Once you play more and shit, it'll naturally build up. So yeah, if you basically dont know how to adapt to what the zerg is doing, this build will = 90% loss for u.
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if u lack in mechanics dont use this build.
Really though, 2 port wraith is similar to Jaedong's 2 hatch muta play, you must be very aggressive with your wraiths and find any opening you can.
Make SURE you kill his overlords, it is very important. Once you have critical mass, you really HAVE to abuse it in order to pay off all that money you spent in it, especially snipe overlords constantly when you have enough wraiths, zerg cannot move out without lords.
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I've seen a 2port build where the guy starts with the proxy factory, only gets 2 wraiths (to kill some overlords and have the Z make hydras) from the 2 ports then adds a risky nat cc => sk terran and rips the guy. viable?
I watched the replay, and... yeah basically what the above posters said, work on your mechanics. Macroing, microing and finding weak points in the zerg defense come with practice.
Stylish's 2port build goes like this:
9 supply
11 rax
12 gas
13 start supply (wall)
16 fact
18 scout
22 two port
22 supply
30 supply
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.repdepot.net/img/thumbs/22675.jpg)
