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Vasoline73
United States8062 Posts
On June 12 2009 20:36 Kinavca wrote: Effort is already at the top, most feared player in the world right now No. No. No. Not even close. Effort has alot to prove even if he is very good. | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
 EffOrt's streak isn't impressive."The first set of people he beat were bad" "If you look at that list, only a couple are top players" This kind of point is downright hilarious. There are a ton of progammers out there, and for every  Bisu, Jaedong, or  Flash, there's ten of Rock. So normally, yeah, EffOrt plays against people he's way better than. So does Bisu, so does JD. But that's the point! EffOrt is BETTER THAN these guys. And just like [your favorite top player] he beats them. 25-3 is 25 and 3. If it was so easy for EffOrt to accomplish, then why doesn't it happen really often? Here's what's really remarkable about this stretch. EffOrt hasn't lost anything he should've won. He lost to Mind, but beat him in the Bo3. He lost to Bisu, which is totally acceptable. Waay at the beginning he lost to YellOw[ArnC]. There isn't another player right now, who can claim that kind of record recently. People are running around saying that JD, Bisu, and Flash would be the favorite against EffOrt, it's becoming conventional wisdom. I'm not saying it's not true, but honestly, at this point, I've seen nothing that says that EffOrt couldn't take any of them in a BoX. | ||
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JohnBall
Brazil1272 Posts
Jaedong has to get through Much and Effort has to defeat Violet. I'd say both of them have pretty good chances to defeat their opponents and fight it out. It's a pity for Effort though. If he were facing Bisu or Flash he would have a much better chance of victory than against Jaedong. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On June 13 2009 00:01 tree.hugger wrote: 25-3 is 25 and 3. If it was so easy for EffOrt to accomplish, then why doesn't it happen really often? Players capable of it, more often than not, have to play a higher frequency of top tier competition, or don't play as many games (ala Bisu and Gom) and therefore a higher percentage of their games are stuff like Starleagues, where basically no one can muster similar records. Effort is amazing, no doubt, but he has the benefit of a lot of easy opponents, a mostly zerg favored map pool, few people preparing specifically for him, and the offseason's lack of tough BoX series. I am still absolutely impressed by the record, in and of itself, but there are definite reasons other than calling him Savior 2.0. I believe he is right on Jaedong's heels as top zerg, but you can't look at their last 30 games and say Effort had just as hard a time. Doubly so for Bisu, who's probably had the toughest schedule of all, lately, and came through amazingly. Effort is an absolutely astounding player who found himself in an amazingly favorable series of matches, topped off by some really top tier wins at the later part of his streak. Depending on how many more PL games he has that should result in easy wins (heh, 815), I expect his streak to be even larger and more impressive, numberwise. Chances are it'll drop drastically in the upper echelons of a starleague, but it definitely is a testament to his talent that he's done so well, even in advantageous positions. | ||
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ccou
United States681 Posts
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Magic84
Russian Federation1381 Posts
On June 13 2009 02:20 ccou wrote: Yeah, I would put Bisu/JD/Flash the big 3 as Tier 1 and Leta/Effort as Tier 2 right now. Before recently, I felt like it was Jangbi alone at Tier 2. That's accurate. At one point Skyhigh and Fantasy were Tier 2 also, but i just feel Effort is superior to them, he plays better now. I just hope map pool stays balanced, this allows phenomenal zvt players to shine instead of having it as their "worst" matchup. | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
On June 12 2009 20:32 Hyperionnn wrote: no offense soyu but usually legendary players won their first sl. (Bisu, Savior (he won his first msl in his 2nd sl but still ok), Nada, Boxer, oov, July, Jaedong and so on.. Disagree. There are a lot of non 1st time champs that are legends. More than enough to say 1st SL wins aren't a must. Savior, Chojja, Flash, Stork, Jangbi, GGplay, Luxury, Xellos, Kingdom, Ra, ... etc Ok... maybe GGplay is a little weak... but you get the point. It helps to become a legend if you win your first SL obviously. It's like an instant pass. But it's not the only or most common way or wotnot. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
"25-3 is 25 and 3. If it was so easy for EffOrt to accomplish, then why doesn't it happen really often?" It happened 3 other times within the last ~4 months. | ||
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sixghost
United States2096 Posts
On June 13 2009 02:44 Avidkeystamper wrote: I wouldn't call Luxury a legendary player. Legendarily bad at being consistent, maybe. "25-3 is 25 and 3. If it was so easy for EffOrt to accomplish, then why doesn't it happen really often?" It happened 3 other times within the last ~4 months. Please point out the other 3 people who have gone 25-3 in the past 4 months. | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On June 13 2009 03:41 sixghost wrote: Please point out the other 3 people who have gone 25-3 in the past 4 months. Just lucky | ||
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KnightOfNi
United States1508 Posts
On June 13 2009 02:35 SuperJongMan wrote: Disagree. There are a lot of non 1st time champs that are legends. More than enough to say 1st SL wins aren't a must. Savior, Chojja, Flash, Stork, Jangbi, GGplay, Luxury, Xellos, Kingdom, Ra, ... etc Ok... maybe GGplay is a little weak... but you get the point. It helps to become a legend if you win your first SL obviously. It's like an instant pass. But it's not the only or most common way or wotnot. Yes, the absolute LEGENDS of the game won SLs on their first try, but the thing is, these players were playing in a different time. The players were in general weaker then, and these S Class players were MILES above the 2nd tier. That just isn't possible in this day and metagame of starcraft (see Bisu vs Violet), for someone to be that far and away better than everyone else. You have players like Bisu Jaedong and Flash sitting up at the pinnacle of the gaming world, but they lose well more games than, say, oov at his prime, or savior at his. It is a different progaming scene now than it was back then, one that is much more standardized and (I hate to say it) less imaginative. This is why I love watching Horang2 play, you never know what he is going to do and it is so exciting some of the stuff he does (kinda reminds me of Upmagic). It is SO difficult for a progamer to make it to the finals of the tourneys and the thing about these SLs is that the nerves and mindgames play a huge role in everything (see Best vs July rape) that it takes a time or two to get a handle on it. Leta has played bisu and jaedong several times in PL and has about a .500 record against each. Effort has a .500 record against those 2 overall (I think), but the difference now is that Leta has made it to the Ro8 of the MSL and the Ro16 of the OSL before, so he will have a better grasp on his nerves. I will not be surprised to see Effort have the same results as Leta in his first MSL (similar streaks going in, although Leta had a MUCH more difficult group in his first try, having to take out defending champ ForGG and an inform Iris, while Effort has a slumping Luxury, an auto fail TvZ Hiya, and a recently sketchy Hwasin), maybe reaching Ro16 or Ro8 before running into someone more experienced with the mindgames and then getting taken out. He'll be back for the next run and if he's still playing as well as he is now then I wouldn't be surprised to see a semifinal/final appearance from him. It takes a special person to control your nerves on that type of stage, and I haven't seen enough from Effort to believe he is THAT kind of special player (in that regard, he's a unique talent thats for DAMN sure). tl;dr - It will take a SL appearance to let us know how he really stacks up. On June 13 2009 02:39 SuperJongMan wrote: O right, lol he got raped. Twice. By Bisu. | ||
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sixghost
United States2096 Posts
On June 13 2009 03:58 KnightOfNi wrote: That just isn't possible in this day and metagame of starcraft (see Bisu vs Violet), for someone to be that far and away better than everyone else. You have players like Bisu Jaedong and Flash sitting up at the pinnacle of the gaming world, but they lose well more games than, say, oov at his prime, or savior at his. What does the metagame have to do with any of this O_O That poor word, never gets used correctly. | ||
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Shizuru~
Malaysia1676 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7572 Posts
I think the fact that a handfull of gamers , you all know who I'm referring to, have seperated themselves from the pack and considerably out preformed the rest for a very long time now. Bisu, jaedong and flash ... I mean come on guys to be so strong at the highest level of play in the hardest time to be the best is insane. Bisu winning against any of the top 5 zergs is a testament on some of the maps that have come out. Flash beating protoss, LOL, there are 20 protoss with PvT so strong it would make artosis blow a fuse and idra be mannered. Not to mention we have a zerg that has taken zvz to another level, micros in all matchups with the balls of boxer and julyzerg and macros like a neo-oov (cheater-zerg). Any player who is competing with them right now is definately someone special. Stork,Effort,leta, hwasin, fantasy, jangbi,kal all of them are soooo goooooood. I mean the fact that I can already put efforts name next to those players is a definate testament to his dominate play. | ||
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MuffinDude
United States3837 Posts
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
On June 13 2009 03:41 sixghost wrote: Please point out the other 3 people who have gone 25-3 in the past 4 months. Bisu, Jaedong, Leta. | ||
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SimonB
United States1088 Posts
He's still not among the top 4 players in my mind. | ||
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