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Edit: I'll try to keep this updated as games go by.
Lastest update + Show Spoiler +10-07-2010, bigfile msl 2010, group A with flash
I am sucker for stats so I compiled all Jaedong , Bisu and Flash 's BOx games and made stats about it.
Below a BOX or double elimination round etc. is called a match.
I’ve went through all their official games and have made some statistics about it. Below comebacks are where a player loses his first game and then goes on to win the match.
Normal win is where the player wins the first game, and goes on to win the match.
Check it out 
 Jaedong
Comeback wins to won matches ratio: 22/68 32.3%
Normal win of won matches: 46/68 67.6%
Win ratio (of matches): 68/87 78.2%
 Bisu
Comeback wins to won matches ratio: 12/55 21.8%
Normal win of won matches: 43/55 78.2%
Win ratio (of matches): 55/84 65.5%
 Flash
Comeback wins to won matches ratio: 5/59 8.5%
Normal win of won matches: 54/59 91.5%
Win ratio (of matches): 59/77 76.6%
If anyone have a good way to plot this, plz advise me, as this might be easier to intepret.
So JD not only has a huge win ratio of matches, but he also has a high comback win ratio, compared to Bisu and Flash in this case. Especially the old "loose the first game in a match and then win rest" fasion. This can also been seen in the listed games below.
Flash , however, makes very low amount of comebacks when he loses the first game. But he, as JD, still has a very high totalt win ratio and almost all of them are dominations. This is also very impressive.
The difference between Jaedong and Flash is very interesting IMO, especially considering both players have such high win ratio's overall.
All Jaedongs comeback games listed: + Show Spoiler +
Old Post in spoiler.
+ Show Spoiler +For my 283rd post I thought I'd do something special, to contribute with something to this great community. 5-24-09 GOM: + Show Spoiler +So Jaedong just did it again in GOM. Waah I’m a huge Jaedong fan, and because of this I’ve been following him pretty closely, probably like most other people here at TL. One thing that I’ve noticed about JD, besides his crazy skill level, is that he very often loses the first game in a BOX or a double elimination round and then proceeds to win it. So I thought I would look into this with a little more detail. Below a BOX or double elim. round is called a match. I’ve went through all his games that are listed in his profile here at TL and have made some statistics about it and I have also listed all his “comebacks” below. It turns out that over 37.8% of all his match- wins are comebacks. While this might sound impressive for some and maybe less for others I’ve made the same stats for Bisu and Flash. Bisus comeback pecentage is 25.6 which is actually quite high. But if you take both players win ratio (of matches) into account ( Bisu 63.2% Jaedong 77.6%) it’s a quite high percentage for Jaedong. Flash, on the other hand, have a mere 7.3% won matches by comeback. Now one might argue that it is not necessarily a good thing to win with a comeback, because you actually lost the first game. And this certainly is the case for Jaedong compared to Flash, because Flash have an almost as high matches won percentage, 73.2%, as Jaedong so one might say Flash is more dominant in his wins. While this hold true I think that Jaedongs stats display an absolutely stunning mind state. Jaedong plays extremely well under pressure, and maybe even best when one win or loss means do or die!Other interesting stats: + Show Spoiler +Jaedong has the highest match winning percentage at 77.6% followed by Flash at 73.2% and Bisu at 63.2%. Note that I simply selected these three players because they have all been pretty dominant for a relatively long time Stats for the players + Show Spoiler +JaedongComeback wins to won matches ratio: 17/45 37.8% Comeback wins to all matches ratio: 17/58 29.3% Win ratio (of matches): 45/58 77.6% BisuComeback wins to won matches ratio: 11/43 25.6% Comeback wins to all matches ratio: 11/68 16.2% Win ratio (of matches): 43/68 63.2% FlashComeback wins to won matches ratio: 3/41 7.3% Comeback wins to all matches ratio: 3/56 5.4% Win ratio (of matches): 41/56 73.2%
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United States12607 Posts
Nice stats, Jaedong has always been known to "heat up" over the course of a BoX series, and this OP proves it! Well done.
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Whenever Jaedong is down 0-1 or 0-2 commentators start talking about the "Jaedong score". He's quite famous for dropping 1 or 2 games against someone then taking the whole series.
He plays quite well under pressure and if he would be a little more adaptive to certain situations he'd win more titles.
Happy 283-th post!!!
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On May 15 2009 03:34 JWD wrote:
Nice stats, but I'm not so sure it's fair to call advancing out of a MST or OSL group with two wins after a loss a "comeback game".
But Jaedong has always been known to "heat up" over the course of a BoX series, and this OP proves it! Well done.
I think it is, because you have to "come back" and win the next to games without losing. And in some cases its even the same player you have to meet in the final game.
But guess it's just a discussion of the definition of comeback. And lets NOT derail this thread already. 
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plug this into the gapminder?
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United States12607 Posts
On May 15 2009 03:37 Ota Solgryn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2009 03:34 JWD wrote:
Nice stats, but I'm not so sure it's fair to call advancing out of a MST or OSL group with two wins after a loss a "comeback game".
But Jaedong has always been known to "heat up" over the course of a BoX series, and this OP proves it! Well done. I think it is, because you have to "come back" and win the next to games without losing. And in some cases its even the same player you have to meet in the final game. But guess it's just a discussion of the definition of comeback. And lets NOT derail this thread already.
Oh I agree you could call 2-1ing a group from the loser's game a comeback, but just not a "comeback game". Yeah it's a stupid nit...don't worry about it 
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Nice stats, thanks for the write up, what is also impressive that JD only lost 2 Bo5s in his career, once to Forgg in the fateful arena MSL, and his first Bo5 to Rock which is hilarious because he then proceeded to win the OSL after the OSC and rape the shit out of Stork in the finals.
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i always thought that aspect of jaedong was quite interesting
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United States4126 Posts
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Nice information, thanks for doing this.
As people have said Jaedong is known for dropping the first few games and then making a comeback. It would be interesting to see how many of those 1st games lost are from risky builds. Maybe he thinks if he loses the first game it will make the other player over confident. Not that I think he would lose the first game on purpose but maybe theres some psychological reasoning behind this? Ah maybe I'm looking too much into it.
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Nah, it's just Jaedong being the, at his best, strongest player to play the game so far. When he's down a game I figure there's a switch or something he just turns on and goes "Welp time to win." I'm not even a huge Jaedong fan (I like Flash more), but can't deny he's battling at the top for the pure skill and he has that something special, star sense if you will, only matched by Savior in his prime.
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GOMTV MSL Season 4 was where he showed his best comeback skills, imo.
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What about against Flash in Bacchus and ForGG in Arena? I remember him losing the first game there, what happened?
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Jaedong has the heart of a champion. I remember Super Daniel man telling a story about an interview he did with Jaedong:
SDM: Jaedong, when you have to play other top players like Flash and Bisu do you ever get scared before or during the game?
JD: What's the point?
Total baddass.
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This is what you call clutch. Interesting how it applies to e-sports and not only sports like basketball where famous players like MJ and Kobe are known to be quite clutch. In terms of team play, I'd say SkyHigh wins it for a team comeback :D
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Actually, from my experience with fighting games, it happens often that better players intentionally play worse against weaker players on the initial contact, and as a result the weaker players think they're ahead and play to win. As a result, they reveal all their tricks and strategies and all of their game finishing moves right away. Once the better player learns all those tricks, he can counter his opponent perfectly and win the rest of the match with no fear for suddenly losing to something he didn't see coming earlier.
If JD is doing that he obviously won't admit it, since it ruins the whole point of this mind game. But maybe that's what he really does? Makes his opponents expose their cards while keeping his own hidden, and then sweep 100% ensured victories over them with no chance to lose on a fluke because he knows everything they're going to do in every situation before it even happens.
Look at the first 2 games of JD vs Fantasy on the recent OSL. I'm not going to put a spoiler tag because it's beyond time for that. JD lost those two games despite having a very good situational advantage, to really silly things. He made a bad engagement with his muta/scourge and promptly lost them all in the first game, which let fantasy move out earlier than the Z wants and grab map control, from which point JD was run over.
In game 2, JD let the vultures get into his base, even that he could really easily stop them.
Maybe the truth is, he just wanted to see what follow up fantasy has planned after his vulture harass? He wanted to know what's fantasy gameplan after breaking the muta pressure? And once he knows those things, it's really easy to prepare for them ahead of time and just sweep wins.
In game 3, JD made lurkers, but in reality it was obvious that he could win with just muta/hydra a lot earlier. Maybe the reason he made lurkers is because he learned that fantasy uses bio after his valk, and he wanted to prepare for that ahead of time, expecting that to happen in game 3?
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Did SkyHigh do any allkills besides the Oz reverse-allkill in the finals of last season?
Concerning Jaedong, I think he's got everything it takes to be a star. He's an awesome player, is great in interviews, and creates some really tense moments because he's so amazing when under pressure. Batoo OSL final might not be the best ever if you already know the results, but when watching those games live I was completely hyped up.
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United States11390 Posts
On May 15 2009 05:21 Aqo[il] wrote:
Actually, from my experience with fighting games, it happens often that better players intentionally play worse against weaker players on the initial contact, and as a result the weaker players think they're ahead and play to win. As a result, they reveal all their tricks and strategies and all of their game finishing moves right away. Once the better player learns all those tricks, he can counter his opponent perfectly and win the rest of the match with no fear for suddenly losing to something he didn't see coming earlier.
If JD is doing that he obviously won't admit it, since it ruins the whole point of this mind game. But maybe that's what he really does? Makes his opponents expose their cards while keeping his own hidden, and then sweep 100% ensured victories over them with no chance to lose on a fluke because he knows everything they're going to do in every situation before it even happens.
Q: You often lose your first game in an important series.
A: I think losing the first match gives me a reason to try harder to win the other games. I focus on getting a measure of opposing player's condition, his movement and mind games.
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On May 15 2009 05:24 Harem wrote:
Q: You often lose your first game in an important series.
A: I think losing the first match gives me a reason to try harder to win the other games. I focus on getting a measure of opposing player's condition, his movement and mind games.
oo that's a quote?
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United States11390 Posts
On May 15 2009 05:27 Aqo[il] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2009 05:24 Harem wrote:
Q: You often lose your first game in an important series.
A: I think losing the first match gives me a reason to try harder to win the other games. I focus on getting a measure of opposing player's condition, his movement and mind games. oo that's a quote?
Yeah, it's from an interview after he beat Bisu in that GOMTV Special Match.
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EPT
