EPTbut then if he won, it would probably result in a new ELO peak wouldn't it.
either way, bisu fighting ^^
[spoiler] ELO Peaks - Page 13
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imperfect
Canada1652 Posts
but then if he won, it would probably result in a new ELO peak wouldn't it. either way, bisu fighting ^^ | ||
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Simplistik
2173 Posts
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huameng
United States1133 Posts
On February 23 2009 04:05 TheYango wrote: This is exactly why I think the Bisu-hate is ridiculous. How could you hate a player so much as to wish that an all-time record be lower just because you can't stand to see him be #1? You seriously overestimate the amount of hate you need to not want to see someone break a record of a player you like better. If Bisu held the ELO peak, why on Earth would you want, say, Jangbi to break it? You don't have to dislike Jangbi much at all, it's just that Bisu is pretty obviously a better player than Jangbi, so it doesn't make any sense for Jangbi to hold the record over Bisu. If you want records to increase for no reason other than to see a higher number, fine, but people generally want records to represent something. If they don't think Bisu is the best, they surely won't want him to hold a record signifying that. | ||
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quiong
United States268 Posts
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Proposal
United States1310 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
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Proposal
United States1310 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
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BanZu
United States3329 Posts
On February 23 2009 08:02 huameng wrote: You seriously overestimate the amount of hate you need to not want to see someone break a record of a player you like better. If Bisu held the ELO peak, why on Earth would you want, say, Jangbi to break it? You don't have to dislike Jangbi much at all, it's just that Bisu is pretty obviously a better player than Jangbi, so it doesn't make any sense for Jangbi to hold the record over Bisu. If you want records to increase for no reason other than to see a higher number, fine, but people generally want records to represent something. If they don't think Bisu is the best, they surely won't want him to hold a record signifying that. Personally, I don't like  JangBi that much but I don't care if he beats Bisu's all-time high (if Bisu does Reach it). If he's good enough to do it, then he'll do it. There's no reason for me to wish against it. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
On February 23 2009 08:02 huameng wrote: You seriously overestimate the amount of hate you need to not want to see someone break a record of a player you like better. If Bisu held the ELO peak, why on Earth would you want, say, Jangbi to break it? You don't have to dislike Jangbi much at all, it's just that Bisu is pretty obviously a better player than Jangbi, so it doesn't make any sense for Jangbi to hold the record over Bisu. If you want records to increase for no reason other than to see a higher number, fine, but people generally want records to represent something. If they don't think Bisu is the best, they surely won't want him to hold a record signifying that. the problem is "Bisu is pretty obviously a better player than Jangbi" is a subjective statement. obviously Bisu is better right now, he has more titles, better W-L, higher ELO, but what if in a few months Jangbi got to 2400? would Bisu still obviously be a better player? probably not. that's why saying "X shouldn't have a higher ELO because Y is better" doesn't make sense. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 23 2009 08:02 huameng wrote: You seriously overestimate the amount of hate you need to not want to see someone break a record of a player you like better. If Bisu held the ELO peak, why on Earth would you want, say, Jangbi to break it? You don't have to dislike Jangbi much at all, it's just that Bisu is pretty obviously a better player than Jangbi, so it doesn't make any sense for Jangbi to hold the record over Bisu. If you want records to increase for no reason other than to see a higher number, fine, but people generally want records to represent something. If they don't think Bisu is the best, they surely won't want him to hold a record signifying that. A record is a record. It doesn't imply anything about current player skill. If Jangbi or anyone else can break whatever record Bisu sets, I'm completely fine with it. Any indication that the skill level of the game is still moving up is good for everyone. Its indication that competitive play is still alive and flourishing. Either way, you would either have to hate Bisu too much, or like Flash too much to not want a record to be broken. Record-breaking is always worth seeing, IMO. Especially given the new WL format, its perfectly within Flash's ability to pass up Bisu again. He WAS ahead of Bisu just a few days ago. Give him an all-kill or two, and he can do so again, individual leagues be damned. | ||
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Batisterio-PiB
Brazil219 Posts
I dont think ELO is a good measure of dominance.... | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 23 2009 10:16 Batisterio-PiB wrote: If Oov had an WL, GOM intel-classic, MSL with 32 players he would had the record...even savior or nada....the dominance of flash, bisu, jaedong is far from oov, nada or savior... I dont think ELO is a good measure of dominance.... Its not supposed to be. If all your opponents are just as good as you are, then your ELO rises faster than it would if you're way better than they are. ELO peak rising indicates that player skill as a whole is rising, which is a good thing, regardless of who you're a fan of. Savior, Nada, and Oov were more dominant than Flash, Bisu, or Jaedong, but by no means were their actual skills better than Flash/Bisu/Jaedong (e.g. Jaedong now would easily beat Oov of '04, even during his 27-win streak). | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
On February 23 2009 11:08 Hot_Bid wrote: i disagree, if oov had a more heavy schedule he would've had LESS dominance, not more. more games = less time to prepare for the dominant player. It depends how heavy. He could probably play twice the amount of games he'd played and still dominate just as hard. More games for him means more (though not as many) games for everyone. Too many games and he'll probably fold like Flash. | ||
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huameng
United States1133 Posts
On February 23 2009 09:48 TheYango wrote: A record is a record. It doesn't imply anything about current player skill. If Jangbi or anyone else can break whatever record Bisu sets, I'm completely fine with it. Any indication that the skill level of the game is still moving up is good for everyone. Its indication that competitive play is still alive and flourishing. I see your point, but the record can't not imply anything about current player skill AND be an indication that the skill level of the game is still moving up. It just doesn't make sense. I mean, I loved seeing the Patriots go 16-0 in the NFL two seasons ago, (I'm not a fan of theirs) because it's good to see a team that deserves a record get it. I, even as a Flash fan, don't mind Bisu having the #1 ELO peak, because he's simply owning people's souls right now. But some people thought the Pats ran the score up on shitty teams and they deserved to lose in the Super Bowl. Some people think Bisu got very lucky with Backho's gift, or isn't deserving for some other reason, and it certainly doesn't make them Bisu haters. Sometime, Hot_Bid wrote: the problem is "Bisu is pretty obviously a better player than Jangbi" is a subjective statement. obviously Bisu is better right now, he has more titles, better W-L, higher ELO, but what if in a few months Jangbi got to 2400? would Bisu still obviously be a better player? probably not. that's why saying "X shouldn't have a higher ELO because Y is better" doesn't make sense. Well I picked Jangbi specifically because Bisu scrubbed the floor with him so recently. If Jangbi crushes this MSL without a loss and Bisu gets swept by, I dunno, Yarnc (haha yeah right) in OSL, goes 0-3 in WL and then can't qualify for a starleague to save his life, there wouldn't be a debate, Jangbi would deserve to have the higher ELO. I guess he wasn't the best example, we can replace him with Frozean or type-b if you'd like. I was just trying to get the point across that we'd like ELO to represent skill, so if a worse player has a higher ELO than a better player, the system is broken. (This is unavoidable with how quickly the ELO fluctuates, but we can dream.) With Flash vs Bisu, it's not as clear cut as Bisu vs Frozean or Flash vs Pusan, but a lot of people are going to feel strongly that one player is better than the other. And they'll be pissed if their favorite doesn't hold all the records. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 23 2009 12:04 huameng wrote: I see your point, but the record can't not imply anything about current player skill AND be an indication that the skill level of the game is still moving up. It just doesn't make sense. I should be clearer: ELO peak doesn't imply anything about current INDIVIDUAL player skill, but implies something about the skill of the entire player BASE. Bisu's ELO peak being higher than Oov's old peak doesn't mean that Bisu is a more dominant player, but it does mean that he is more likely to be facing players of similar skill level, rather than dominating people much worse than he is (because he loses less for losses, and gains more for wins). | ||
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OmgIRok
Taiwan2699 Posts
/rant [Feel free to own me for this post, I won't check back on this thread because like I JUST MENTIONED THESE OLD NEWS THINGS SHOULD ONLY BE MENTIONED TO AS HISTORY BEING MADE, NOT BEING KEPT CURRENT BY CONTINUOUS BUMPING OVER A SPAN OF A MONTH (AND OR MORE)] | ||
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
PS Caps. Stop. | ||
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
On February 23 2009 14:30 OmgIRok wrote: WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH OLD THREADS THAT TALK ABOUT ELO PEAKS THAT ARE ALREADY BROKEN ITS LIKE READING OLD NEWS/FALSE INFO /rant [Feel free to own me for this post, I won't check back on this thread because like I JUST MENTIONED THESE OLD NEWS THINGS SHOULD ONLY BE MENTIONED TO AS HISTORY BEING MADE, NOT BEING KEPT CURRENT BY CONTINUOUS BUMPING OVER A SPAN OF A MONTH (AND OR MORE)]  | ||
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