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I know most of us probably have a friend or two who wants to play BW with us every now and then or whatever. The problem is this, we are somewhat hardcore players and they are the casual noobies that get slaughtered by the dozens everyday with our mouse hand alone.
My friend hasn't played since like 99 and I recently gave him my old CD key and he DL'ed the game off blizz website. He's been playing a lot (rec is like 60-55). But he just sucks and his apm is like 50-60.
So my question is this, How do you play with these people? Do you dumb down your style and just play by his rules? Do you just fuck around every game? Do you give orders throughout the game?
Any tips or advice are welcome.
PS- He usually wants to play BGH games which is even more annoying because I have to carry the team and with enemy having infinite money it is endless. We usually play 2v2 btw.
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Hrm, what I would probably do is just lpay alot of BGH and hunters with him. You'd be surprise how well people get their mechanics down when they do team. Plus it will make you play harder since youl'l have to pick up the slack due to your friend's skil level.
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I have had many experiences in playing with people like this. I constantly try to get my friends into starcraft, so I always end up playing against noobs.
A number of things you can do:
1: Play offrace. This is a great opportunity to get better at offrace anyways, and it'll make you much worse so that they can have an easier time. Just play random.
2: Grind it into their heads that they shouldn't play BGH/fastest. you shouldn't have too hard a time since it looks like you're in the situation of having people WANT to play with you rather than you convince them to play. So tell them you won't play with them unless they play on normal money maps.
3: Play 1v2s, or 1v3s if they're terrible enough.
4: Talk to them while you play, like on ventrilo or in person, give them advice about what they're doing wrong, etc. Tell them WHY they should be doing something. The biggest problem noobs have is figuring out WHY they should be doing X instead of doing Y, and why it is based on what their opponent is doing.
If you do 2v2s ALLIED to one of them, that is much different. That is just painful, i don't know what to say T_T. Good luck 
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Vatican City State1872 Posts
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The funny thing too is that I'll do a standard build and try and attack one of the opponents with him and we can't take them down, I end up being fucked. He has static de all over so they counter me instead and I lose and he goes "You fucking suck" every game.
So should I just play defense mode and just watch him/help him.
Oh and he doesn't wanna play 1v1 or not be on my team if we play together. So, yea.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On September 05 2008 09:06 CharlieMurphy wrote:
The funny thing too is that I'll do a standard build and try and attack one of the opponents with him and we can't take them down, I end up being fucked. He has static de all over so they counter me instead and I lose and he goes "You fucking suck" every game.
So should I just play defense mode and just watch him/help him.
Oh and he doesn't wanna play 1v1 or not be on my team if we play together. So, yea.
This sounds like a pretty shitty friend.
EDIT: If you want to 1v1, all sorts of fun stuff. 1v2, but you with 2 bases to start; 1v1 with vision to him; etc. etc.
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I'd just try giving me some simple him a few simple 2v2 builds, hopefully hes sticking to one race, if not I'd suggest telling he to do that. Then if he does the build wrong give him tips/advice of what he can do better. If hes not willing to learn there is no real point in trying, so just play with him for fun, and if its not fun then there is no real point to playing at all. If hes trying to learn and get better then keep playing.
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I have the exact same problem. And since ive been encouragin 1v1, some of them are quitting cuz its too much rape from my side So they play against themselves. What i really cant handle is when I sit next to them, and tell em they should do this or that to counter what the opponent is doing, and they just dont care. They just want to play for fun, not competitivity -_-
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hmm, those handicap ideas sound fun. Got any more weird ones I can try?
EDIT- are there any UMS melee maps that have handicaps and fun shit like this? That would be cool.
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I usually make them play vs comps on blood bath and have buildorder competition. As in who has the best score with the same BO and stuff like that. When they get the build order down (takes like 10games) you go on and play 2:2 hunters and tell them to go by that BO and you will fare suprisingly good. Granted that you learn them some decent hunters build order in the first place.
Then I rape them with queens+broodling in 1:1 and they quit. 
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Russian Federation386 Posts
I usually play with my noob friend (he started only a couple of months ago) and he plays terribly. I give advice on BO, unit composition, timing, macro, etc, but it takes a while before he stats doing what I say. Untill recently he played without hotkeys at all O_O!! We play 1v1 thanks God though...
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1) Find maps that he likes and play them, but don't be afraid to suggest new maps and help him learn them once a week.
2) Noob stomp with them! Go on bnet, host games like "2 vs 2 noobs gogogo" and just let yr friend have fun and help bring their confidence up. Don't do this too much, but it can be fun for them.
3) See if they are down for watching replays of exciting games. Help them learn what is going on.
4) Play them. If they love the game, they will probably be down for playing you.
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Oh yeah I know what you mean. I have a friend in school who I always knew was asian (obv) but recently I found out he was South Korean so I asked him about SC and of course he knew about it. However it's a good thing I was careful because we were talking about our accounts and when I told him I had one account with 200 games he was like, "woah man you must be mega hard core." Good thing I didn't tell him about my account with about 2.5k games.... and I haven't even played on it in the last year.
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lol Jonoman, you sure he wasn't being sarcastic? You can build up 200 in a month, easy.
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get more shitty friends and play a free-for-all on BGH.
its pretty fun, especially at LAN where you can scream in their faces.
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Me and my buddies have a "Friday Night SC" thing where we just get together on B.Net and play Phantom or some other stupid game.
You don't really have to play melee unless they REALLY want to, I find that playing maps that really don't require micro/macro (Nexus Destroyers, Defense maps, w/e) is much more enjoyable to everybody. 
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My brothers and i play KOTHs like a lot. Except were all about D+, but yeah those are my irl people i play with. Um my older brother has a bunch of noob friends, and i just offrace them. Except one, Jimmy, goes like WTF PLAY ME 4 REAL
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I've never had a friend not give up on melee within 2-3 months no matter my approach, so I really dont know the answer
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you can play with a probe per base limit, which would hopefully cut your income to the point where it cancels out your other mechanics and gives your friend some what of a chance
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I find it's easier if you have more than one friend so they have someone else to play against. To start out, you play against a good friend and have them observe. The game is much cooler watching two good people duke it out. Then you teach them the BO you used (ex. FE into speedzeals) since they are more eager learning it once they've seen it in action. You get the two weaker players who were observing to play. Observe them play and go over the replay with them and point out things.
Go and play some UMS, say Team Micro Melee with the good players as builders, and enjoy yourselves. Break for a while and let them try the BOs on other players on bnet that they could beat or against some of your other weaker friends.
When they get better you can offrace and try against them.
This worked the best for me so hopefully you have more than one friend willing to try SC out.
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On September 05 2008 08:50 CharlieMurphy wrote:
I know most of us probably have a friend or two who wants to play BW with us every now and then or whatever. The problem is this, we are somewhat hardcore players and they are the casual noobies that get slaughtered by the dozens everyday with our mouse hand alone.
My friend hasn't played since like 99 and I recently gave him my old CD key and he DL'ed the game off blizz website. He's been playing a lot (rec is like 60-55). But he just sucks and his apm is like 50-60.
So my question is this, How do you play with these people? Do you dumb down your style and just play by his rules? Do you just fuck around every game? Do you give orders throughout the game?
Any tips or advice are welcome.
PS- He usually wants to play BGH games which is even more annoying because I have to carry the team and with enemy having infinite money it is endless. We usually play 2v2 btw.
im actually about to game tonight with a kid from school who thinks he can beat me. he asked me what was that thing that made marines shoot faster ><
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He sounds like an asshole if he tells you that you suck because you guys lose hahaha. I'd seriously just ask him what he wants to get out of BW, and what he wants to do in it? Is he interested at all in pro gaming or that style of play? Or would he solely just play BGH and money maps? Maybe move him slowly from BGH by playing Hunters?
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Do nothing for 1 min after the game starts
(by nothing, I mean quite literally nothing)
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this reminds me of that jaedong replay i watched today where he beat a protoss on bluestorm with ling/scourge/queen only :[ use a unit choice handicap!
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show them a boxer scv rush or something for inspiration to play competitively!
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United States3824 Posts
You play embarrassing joke builds until they post on certain websites about how SC players think they are hardcore because they "Spam keys"
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So wait, is this thread about how to play nice with your friends or how to get them interested in playing Brood War?
I thought it was the former at first but most people seem to be detailing how to move them off BGH maps or how to get them interested in pro-gaming.
Anyway I guess that must be it seeing as it'd be pretty weird to have to ask how to play nice with people who aren't as good as you.
Are you one of those guys who beats little kids into the ground when they challenge you to vidya gaems? Just throw a few games in interesting ways, let them have some fun. It sucks to lose all the time.
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you play to win, no pity given. Dominate them
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Backstab him, he sounds like a douche.
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i usually just 3v3 bgh with IRL friends. we have fun.
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On 2v2, send out two drones, one to each enemy and harass them while playing normally.
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Use chaoslauncher and try to stay near his APM level.
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United States11637 Posts
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I got a friend to start playing but all he wants to play is fastest, lol. Then when I finally get him to play a REAL map with me he just fills his main with cannons and techs straight to carriers regardless of mu. I tell him that this just means he'll lose every game a bit more slowly rather than win but trying to teach him proper strategy is like trying to pound nails into cement. So if you're one of those who thinks, as I used to, that you wished your rl friends would start playing- be careful what you wish for. It's easy to forget this is not a game you can just pick up and play. :/
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- play them 1v2 or even 1v3
- play team games and team up with the worst (and maybe still do 2v3 or so)
- don't start playing for the first 2 minutes or so, although that makes you really vulnerable to a rush
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i don't attack newbies until i hit 200/200, though sometimes i wonder if that's even more soul crushing than the game ending in 5 minutes
off-racing helps too, if you're feeling really bad for him try to beat a protoss with pure m&m, no matter how many cannons he puts up
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-1v2
-1v2 or 1v3 team melee
-play with an UMS handicap by making all your stuff build slower and build more expensive while you start out with less starting workers..
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he's saying that YOU suck? lol.. that's not very nice....
are opponents are also weak? if so then its like strong + weak vs weak + weak, so its still ok, and then you can take them out one at a time. or play a macro game since noobs tend to not expo
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Just fuck around every game. You can't expect to play seriously when he doesn't play seriously (playing on BGH 24/7? come on).
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my friend is a noob too and i win easily vs him, can we have a noob connection so our friends can play vs eachother on iccup or bnet? pm me
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my friends are pretty hardcore, cant sympathize with your problem ;;
but pyrogeneix's idea sounds like it would provide some amusement
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On September 05 2008 11:48 infinity21 wrote:Do nothing for 1 min after the game starts (by nothing, I mean quite literally nothing)
One time I gave my friend a one minute head start. The fucker 4 pooled me.
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On September 05 2008 11:48 infinity21 wrote:Do nothing for 1 min after the game starts (by nothing, I mean quite literally nothing)
There was a show on OGN (I forget the name) where progamers had to eat a super hot goguma before they could start playing LOL
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On September 06 2008 04:43 Equinox_kr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2008 11:48 infinity21 wrote:Do nothing for 1 min after the game starts (by nothing, I mean quite literally nothing) There was a show on OGN (I forget the name) where progamers had to eat a super hot goguma before they could start playing LOL
omg I totally should've eaten my lunch before I started playing haha
We always played during lunch periods @ high school
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On September 06 2008 04:43 Equinox_kr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2008 11:48 infinity21 wrote:Do nothing for 1 min after the game starts (by nothing, I mean quite literally nothing) There was a show on OGN (I forget the name) where progamers had to eat a super hot goguma before they could start playing LOL
HAHAHAHAHAHA I want to see that.
Enjoy the game the way they do, and try and get away with the most bullshit shit ever.... Teach him to cannon rush or 4pool ... Very basic cheesey stuff. Make sure that you always live longer  .... he'll eventually realize your better and if he gets curious will start asking questions on there own. If they aren't purposefully trying to learn, a competive approach to learning won't always be the best I've noticed.
Play BGH ffas they are the most fun game ever.
Period.
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On September 05 2008 09:22 CharlieMurphy wrote:
hmm, those handicap ideas sound fun. Got any more weird ones I can try?
EDIT- are there any UMS melee maps that have handicaps and fun shit like this? That would be cool.
Lastshadow maps, go! Seriously, it'd make games more even, but then your friend wouldn't be able to learn build order timings very well.
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Most noobs are noobs for a reason. They just play for fun. They dont care about learning to play the 'proper' way. They have zero interest in learning a solid build. Dont try teaching him like others have suggested, that will just frustrate you in the end. Just do joke builds or use handicaps or whatever. Just have fun and dont worry about competitive play. If the person actually wants to get good then they will look up strategy guides and find websites like TL and he will ask you for help. If the person does none of those things then dont try teaching them. The odd hint or pointer here or there is ok, but dont expect them to improve a lot. Ive only had one friend ever that was decent at starcraft and that was many many years ago. I tried ot get him back into the game, but he figured it would be to much work since everyone is really good now. Others I have played with just suck. I had to explain to one guy that building two bunkers at the top of his ramp in pvt was completely unnecessary. Most people have no idea how to play this game and just want to mass an army and blow shit up and of course watch it while it happens and go 'oh cool that was awesome'.
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On September 05 2008 09:55 CharlieMurphy wrote:
lol Jonoman, you sure he wasn't being sarcastic? You can build up 200 in a month, easy.
He was serious. I could kind of tell from the way the rest of our bw discussion went. He said he had never liked laddering since it didn't allow you to play on "fastest" speed setting which means he has no clue about pgt, wgt, iccup and that he hasn't played since waaayyyy long ago when it was the integrated ladder and you had to play it on slower than fastest settings.
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i hate those players who give up after losing. keep playing and learn!!! goddamn you n00bs!
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I hate fucking assholes who think they're the shit because they keep owning you..
Not starcraft BTW, Counter-Strike
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On September 05 2008 09:06 CharlieMurphy wrote:
The funny thing too is that I'll do a standard build and try and attack one of the opponents with him and we can't take them down, I end up being fucked. He has static de all over so they counter me instead and I lose and he goes "You fucking suck" every game.
So should I just play defense mode and just watch him/help him.
Oh and he doesn't wanna play 1v1 or not be on my team if we play together. So, yea.
If he seriously thinks that you suck rather than him, start playing defensively as fuck and just watch as he dies until he realizes how much he sucks.
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This is what I've noticed from playing with my friends who aren't too interested in taking the time to learn the game, despite my best efforts to push them in the right direction.
To determine whether or not somebody can be serious about playing is whether or not they would play the game without you. In other words, are they only playing because you asked them if they wanted to go online, or would they actually go online and try to find a game by themselves? If the answer is the previous, then they probably won't get too much into the game unless they get really into playing 1v1 against you.
I think the best way to get them interested in "1v1 serious playing" is to warm them up to it. Start off with 2v1 games against a comp, where you just sort of support them. You don't need to be too nit picky with their strategy, just let them have fun. If this becomes too easy, you can move onto 2 computers.
But of course, playing computers is only so much fun..eventually they'll ask you to make a 2v2 game for people to join. Blood bath is probably the best for this. You don't need to worry too much about timing expos and other intricacies of strategy. You'll probably lose a lot of these. I've found that the best way to win them is to try to kill one of the other players early, if possible. Develop a strategy with your friend where you both rush the player who's worse off, possibly with cheese. Even if you lose, your friend will probably be ecstatic about cheese rushing + killing at least one of them.
Every now and then, play them 1v1 with some of the creative handicaps that people have already mentioned. Hopefully, he'll (or if you're REALLY lucky, she'll) get interested enough that he wants to look up strategies or something to that extent to get better.
The most important thing to remember is that you can't force someone to become serious about something. Some people just have other things that they would rather focus on, and that's completely understandable. So if they just like to goof around, let them, but nudge them towards the notion of playing to win, and hope that eventually they see the light. (I used to have two friends who, whenever I played with, would insist that we make 2v2 games on fastest and then back stab the person who joins. Hilarious at the time, but looking back on it, incredibly cruel. =D)
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I will reiterate what I think is best: use an editor, choose a race to play other than what he does, and make the cost / build times for your race high enough that the game is somewhat even.
All of these are good ideas, but I think this is easiest for you since you can just play normally albeit more slowly.
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great way to practice your 1v3's!
just came out of two 1v2's and a 1v3 earlier
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Kau
Canada3500 Posts
If you're on a laptop you can do one of the following:
a) Two hands, touchpad + keyboard.
b) Two hands, touchpad only.
c) One hand, touchpad + keyboard.
d) One hand, touchpad only.
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i had this friend in school who said he could kick my ass at starcraft.
I won a 15 minute game with straight scvs.
We haven't spoken since.
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EPT
