EPTWhy did you play vs D- player? Did you resetstats? or new smurf? otherwise you should play around C- to C+ only.
Protoss imbalance has gone TOO FAR. - Page 2
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Too_MuchZerg
Finland2818 Posts
Why did you play vs D- player? Did you resetstats? or new smurf? otherwise you should play around C- to C+ only. | ||
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blabber
United States4448 Posts
On August 23 2008 03:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote: It isn't balanced at all. Bisu was never good, he was just lucky to discover an imba build. nvm | ||
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Ryot
Canada316 Posts
However, I don't acknowledge that the game is imbalanced. Balance is determined when the best players in the world push the game to its limits and explore all the possibilities. And as far as that goes, the game is balanced fine. But anyways, I remember a while back I couldn't beat any Protoss players. So what I did was I went over a bunch of replays (mine, as well as from other high level players) and I aimed to re-invent how I played TvP. I learned new build orders, timings, and I even started using different hotkeys to optimize my macro. I think you should try something similar. I'm not a ZvP expert, but if there's a build I think Zerg players should be doing right now it's the one that Julyzerg used against Best in game 3. Mass scourges + air armour upgrades. Also, if they're D level and you're C, you have the multi-tasking to add burrowed Hydras to your game most likely (Jaedong style). Anyways what I'm saying is that rethinking how you play a certain match-up, from scratch, could really help out. I know when I did it I dropped a few bad habits and picked up some good ones (timing, upgrades, etc). Good luck OP, hope you find it in you to overcome those Protoss! | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On August 23 2008 03:05 EtherealDeath wrote: Clearly the OP is exaggerating, cause I'm one of those no-skill Protii who play Zerg against Protoss and doesn't lose to D- Nubtii. Obviously you cheese every game. | ||
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SiegeTanksandBlueGoo
China685 Posts
On another note. Fuck, TvP is dumb. All these protosses that I would stomp in pvp just own me so hard in tvp. ^^;; I guess I just suck at terran. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On August 23 2008 03:07 SiegeTanksandBlueGoo wrote: yeah, seriously, if you're losing to D- level protosses, then you are not a C level zerg. Period. I'm a C- level protoss and PvZ guessing his tech is hard as shit expecially when he copies the koreans and gest both spire and hydra den. Double Den Hydra break or Mutalisks. For protoss, if you guess wrong (or if you're a good player, you didn't scout it out completely) you are completely fucked. Gamer-ender style. If you're zerg, you know wha the's making. There's no need to guess anything other than maybe dt/sair or reaver sair, neither of which is a game ender. There's no need to bitch about ZvP. On another note. Fuck, TvP is dumb. All these protosses that I would stomp in pvp just own me so hard in tvp. ^^;; I guess I just suck at terran. Who cares? Either way go sair reaver, and if your A key is attached you should win every time. | ||
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Hypnosis
United States2061 Posts
On August 23 2008 02:46 Haemonculus wrote: As a terran player, I rather routinely get out-macro'd by dumb easy-mode protoss. T_T;; I have a problem with C level protosses, they are just good enough to have solid macro and micro then the unit IMBA comes in. Maybe i should just go tornado Terran every time. But I know what the OP means, sometimes it just seems imbalanced but its your fault. | ||
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pooper-scooper
United States3108 Posts
On August 23 2008 03:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Who cares? Either way go sair reaver, and if your A key is attached you should win every time. You are a very angry young man. Leveling accuasations at every person who dares to disagree with you. You are clearly not interested in having a discussion, you are just interested in bitching. I think that this particular bitching session would be more appropriate as a blog. I don't suppose that you could take a step back from your hubris to aknowledge that as a C level zerg you might not know everything about the game, and that there might be a flaw in your game. No I suppose that is too much to hope for. ZvP may be imbalance, lord if I know, but I do know that you are uninterested in any real discussion on the matter. Enjoy flaming me. | ||
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ahole-surprise
United States813 Posts
Some random things I've been thinking about: I do think it's interesting that anything below the Pro level, Protoss dominates and that there has been a plethora of very strong players who are actually stronger in PvZ than PvT, such as Nony, Dreiven and JF. I remember that in a Nony FPVOD on Python (2 gate tech build), Nony said that his particular build just demonstrates an advantage that Protoss has over Zerg in that he could both build up and tech at the same time while zerg is forced to decide whether to tech or build up. This doesn't mean that there is an imbalance per se, because if the zerg makes the right decisions, then he very well may come out on top but making those right decisions would take more skill than playing Protoss where you can just do both at the same time and the only issue is just executing it. I also think it's noteworthy that players like JF and Dreiven have consistently been beating Zergs, including Mondragon, but have struggled against good terran players. However, it is noteworthy that alot of the matches have been played on maps like Wuthering heights and Blue storm, which some may consider to be a good ZvP map but watching relatively recent pro games on that map, I'm inclined to think otherwise. I actually think the foreign Terran scene is finally starting to catch up and the "balance" that you see in the Korean scene in TvP/PvT is starting to show. But the PvZ ratio may indicate that as foreigners "top out" in skill and game sense, the advantage actually goes to Protoss and that it is up to the Zerg to do something ingenious to win the game. | ||
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SiegeTanksandBlueGoo
China685 Posts
On August 23 2008 03:17 pooper-scooper wrote: You are a very angry young man. Leveling accuasations at every person who dares to disagree with you. You are clearly not interested in having a discussion, you are just interested in bitching. I think that this particular bitching session would be more appropriate as a blog. I don't suppose that you could take a step back from your hubris to aknowledge that as a C level zerg you might not know everything about the game, and that there might be a flaw in your game. No I suppose that is too much to hope for. ZvP may be imbalance, lord if I know, but I do know that you are uninterested in any real discussion on the matter. Enjoy flaming me. I agree. I remember there was a thread somewhere talking about how even Bisu had trouble macroing while doing reaver/sair. I think he's a much more reputable source of PvZ information than Doctor Helvetica, who for god's sakes, we don't even know he's a C level zerg or not. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On August 23 2008 03:17 pooper-scooper wrote: You are a very angry young man. Leveling accuasations at every person who dares to disagree with you. You are clearly not interested in having a discussion, you are just interested in bitching. I think that this particular bitching session would be more appropriate as a blog. I don't suppose that you could take a step back from your hubris to aknowledge that as a C level zerg you might not know everything about the game, and that there might be a flaw in your game. No I suppose that is too much to hope for. ZvP may be imbalance, lord if I know, but I do know that you are uninterested in any real discussion on the matter. Enjoy flaming me. Angry? I haven't attacked anyone, I've just been smarmy. You shouldn't be so quick to analyze the emotional make-up of everyone you meet. That's really obnoxious. | ||
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Gaetele
Esper760 Posts
On August 23 2008 02:56 BlackStar wrote: It's not. That's why zerg has huge strategical and economical advantages over protoss. In ZvP, Corsairs just fly around and snipe your Overlords, destroying any sort of sight you have. Even West and East scrubs still manage to beat me occasionally in PvZ (Koreans...) It's like going to Philadelphia and then getting shot while at the Liberty Bell - it's that painful. Poor Zerglings, just being born to get cut down in the prime of their life without even touching anything. On August 23 2008 02:47 Shauni wrote: LOL. I think someone has problems with fundamentals... And who are you to criticize my fundamentals without having any proof? I worked hard and finally raised my level of play, gaming in TSL and Spirit. It's just that Protoss can win the game by turning SC on. I admit I'm not the best player out there, but I'm not 4pooling my way to B+. There are people on the ladder that shouldn't be that high. On August 23 2008 02:43 Little-Chimp wrote: I'm a D level at best and I will rarely lose to a D- protoss... I think someone's exaggerating their skill level a little bit. Playground mentality, imo. Just because something is hard to believe doesn't mean that it's not true. It is not that hard to believe that some people are just bad at something - look at Casy. Remember back where he won an OSL? He's horrible at TvP. Oh wait. It must be because Protoss is imba, even vs. T! I am not the only one who thinks so, I'm sure. I keep on practicing, practicing but still. I must have spent thousands of hours on this game but I still can't figure out this problem. It can't be my fault. And most of my friends play Protoss, with their 80 APM, but they beat me. Two of them combined is half of my APM. My multitask and macro are far above theirs but it still just isn't enough! The storm kills my entire army, and then the HTs just become Archons. My Overlords run but still see the end of their days to the ever-present Corsairs. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7658 Posts
Julyzerg Jaedong Savior Each in there prime embarrasses the best(lol Best) protoss routinely, even would be contenders. Julyzerg makes every toss look stupid nearly every game .... Jaedong makes mid-game ZvP look like Toss never has a chance.(two of his championships were agains P) Savior has the highest Elo peak of all time in ZvP. The cool thing about BW, is that below the top levels, protoss is fucking awesome and balanced. And on a very very low level even dominate. Why not find 2 or 3 of your most terrible ZvP defeats.... take a notepad, watch the rep, take notes on things you could improve, Post the replays + notes in the strategy forum and begin something productive ....Whinning rarely helps win ZvP ..... I've tried. | ||
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SiegeTanksandBlueGoo
China685 Posts
On August 23 2008 03:22 Gaetele wrote: In ZvP, Corsairs just fly around and snipe your Overlords, destroying any sort of sight you have. Even West and East scrubs still manage to beat me occasionally in PvZ (Koreans...) It's like going to Philadelphia and then getting shot while at the Liberty Bell - it's that painful. Poor Zerglings, just being born to get cut down in the prime of their life without even touching anything. And who are you to criticize my fundamentals without having any proof? I worked hard and finally raised my level of play, gaming in TSL and Spirit. It's just that Protoss can win the game by turning SC on. I admit I'm not the best player out there, but I'm not 4pooling my way to B+. There are people on the ladder that shouldn't be that high. Playground mentality, imo. Just because something is hard to believe doesn't mean that it's not true. It is not that hard to believe that some people are just bad at something - look at Casy. Remember back where he won an OSL? He's horrible at TvP. Oh wait. It must be because Protoss is imba, even vs. T! I am not the only one who thinks so, I'm sure. I keep on practicing, practicing but still. I must have spent thousands of hours on this game but I still can't figure out this problem. It can't be my fault. And most of my friends play Protoss, with their 80 APM, but they beat me. Two of them combined is half of my APM. My multitask and macro are far above theirs but it still just isn't enough! The storm kills my entire army, and then the HTs just become Archons. My Overlords run but still see the end of their days to the ever-present Corsairs. lol, you'd think with 160 apm, you would be able to do some dancing and flanking. | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32282 Posts
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On August 23 2008 03:28 Ancestral wrote: Yes, the game is completely imbalanced P>Z. All those games you see where Zerg beats Protoss didn't actually happen. And all those games where Bisu loses to Zerg didn't happen either, he wins all of them, ever. Bisu doesn't count, considering he sucks. | ||
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ahole-surprise
United States813 Posts
Maybe you're just not making enough hatcheries fast enough. | ||
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
On August 23 2008 03:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Who cares? Either way go sair reaver, and if your A key is attached you should win every time. I agree with this. Only noobs lose Shuttles to Scourges or Hydralisks. Only noobs have their cannons brokens. Only noobs have bug scarabs. When I start a PvZ game, I just hold down the A key and voila, perfect macro, perfect micro. Before my eyes I get a Fleet Beacon and an army of Sairs that fire perfect disruption web and everything. I don't even use the mouse, I don't own one, they're too fancy for me. + Show Spoiler + Sair Reaver is not easy, or even a good build unless you're already an incredible player | ||
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