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On May 15 2008 13:44 ChaosKnight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2008 13:14 Superiorwolf wrote:On May 15 2008 12:51 mahnini wrote:On May 15 2008 12:46 Hypnosis wrote:
Listen up newbs: all 3 are the hardest..
but to choose one it has to be zerg for this simple reason: The army control is too critical for it to be an easier race. With Terran you can make a ball and attack. With toss you have to slightly flank and your fine. With zerg if you dont flank, OR your muta control sucks, you are fucked. If you dont do really good flanks you lose.... thats the bottom line because all three race's macro is about the same. I lol'd Also... with terran you can make a ball and attack? For all 3 matchups if you do that you're screwed. Lurkers will pwn u, toss flank will pwn u (u gotta micro those siege and vults wowww?) and enemy terran will also pwn u. Well, your Terran has it easy. Shadow rush = gg no re kthxbai. Show nested quote +On May 15 2008 13:31 caigo wrote:On May 15 2008 10:45 fusionsdf wrote:On May 15 2008 10:33 Seraphim wrote:
fusionsdf, maybe you didn't play easy opponents, you'd realize that your so-called theories would be retarded its not my fault tanks only do like 1/4 dmg to probes wtf is up with that? also protoss macro is just like 1z2z3d4d5h Terran macro is just like 1v2v3v4t5t I suck with Terran and Zerg (I suck at all races actually, >.> ), but I can still say that Protoss is not ezmode. Let's not get stray from the actual discussion. The most proliferate argument is not that Protoss is an easy race, but rather, the easiest to master. Just because a race is easy to master doesn't mean that anyone can do it: it still takes ample skill and dedication. However, let's make a scenario:
From the first page:
On May 15 2008 00:47 ErOs_YasoT wrote:
Me and my friend were arguing the other day about which race being the HARDEST to master at the INTERMEDIATE level... He believes it is terran while i believe it is zerg
On May 15 2008 00:47 ErOs_YasoT wrote:
INTERMEDIATE level...
On May 15 2008 00:47 ErOs_YasoT wrote:
INTERMEDIATE
This thread is about intermediate level players, not complete mastery of a race.
But, if we are talking about complete mastery...
On May 15 2008 13:44 ChaosKnight wrote:
To put it simply, each race can always be improved upon. You can never perfect your style or skill at a race, as there is always an extra expansion you could make or dedicate more time to macro or micro, or perhaps, build up more APM. However, as players attempt to get closer to this "perfection," results tend to come much faster for Protosses when compared to Terrans or Zergs (however, in the long run, Protoss players tend to "max out" sooner). Protoss is typically the less demanding race as I noted in a previous post, and that is why I believe this to be true.
Once again, no race is "easy to master."
Hmm, I agree with this to some extent. I do not think that Protoss are less demanding, but I can see your point. Also, I do not believe the results that "come faster for Protoss" are really that significant. No one race completely dominates at any skill level.
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On May 15 2008 13:36 Darkmole wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2008 11:36 clazziquai wrote:PM from fusiondf  I dont play iccup but if I did Im sure I would b- toss anyone find this funny? lol yea i find that funny cuz i remember beating him ^^
you've never beaten me
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lol i just noticed fusionsdf quote "whats that, you have basic macro skills? well fuck then welcome to team protoss."
Caigo was so compelled to join tl.net today and comment about this injustice lol also nice to see he changed his race to toss *cough* as far as I remember its default is scv
There is no argument intermediate play terran is the hardest but that no fun. The clarity in why terran is the hardest at intermediate level is just that after the slow push became weaker against more modern pvt strategies and unviable for tvp more or less the required micro just becomes insanely not viable to compete
I’m pretty same sure anyone can agree with that at the intermediate level a zerg can just spam units and gain macro to crush people *cough* gosia and of course zerg has some powerful eccentrics people can play to rush at lower levels.
Although it becomes a blurred line when its terran and zerg at Korean level just because zerg and terran are played a lot differently at that level mostly a lot better so other things become one again possible to play.
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On May 15 2008 14:03 caigo wrote:
This thread is about intermediate level players, not complete mastery of a race.
I was talking about intermediate mastery. I guess I wasn't clear.
On May 15 2008 14:03 caigo wrote:But, if we are talking about complete mastery... Show nested quote +On May 15 2008 13:44 ChaosKnight wrote:
To put it simply, each race can always be improved upon. You can never perfect your style or skill at a race, as there is always an extra expansion you could make or dedicate more time to macro or micro, or perhaps, build up more APM. However, as players attempt to get closer to this "perfection," results tend to come much faster for Protosses when compared to Terrans or Zergs (however, in the long run, Protoss players tend to "max out" sooner). Protoss is typically the less demanding race as I noted in a previous post, and that is why I believe this to be true.
Once again, no race is "easy to master." Hmm, I agree with this to some extent. I do not think that Protoss are less demanding, but I can see your point. Also, I do not believe the results that "come faster for Protoss" are really that significant. No one race completely dominates at any skill level.
I think the results are significant. If you have two low tier players of equal skill, let's say a Terran and Protoss, that Terran will experience certain hell. Two gate rushes or any sort of early zealot harass will completely rape the Terran player--marine micro is a difficult thing. Unless the Terran can wall (and even that is not always an option), a Protoss can get a significant lead on a Terran. Yes, 2 marines can kill a zealot with good micro, but holy shit if that even happens. The Protoss player doesn't even need to attend to the zealot while the Terran player will be feeling some serious pain. At this level of play, the Terran player will practically lose almost all macro if he micros to stop a zealot, meanwhile, the toss is already teching goon and expanding. If the Terran doesn't micro, then he's kissing the game goodbye.
As for ZvP, zergs need to manage their money and unit ratios pretty well to get the lead on a Protoss. However, at lower levels, I believe that Zergs have a general advantage over Protoss. That's another debate, though.
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On May 15 2008 14:28 ChaosKnight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2008 14:03 caigo wrote:
This thread is about intermediate level players, not complete mastery of a race. I was talking about intermediate mastery. I guess I wasn't clear. Show nested quote +On May 15 2008 14:03 caigo wrote:But, if we are talking about complete mastery... On May 15 2008 13:44 ChaosKnight wrote:
To put it simply, each race can always be improved upon. You can never perfect your style or skill at a race, as there is always an extra expansion you could make or dedicate more time to macro or micro, or perhaps, build up more APM. However, as players attempt to get closer to this "perfection," results tend to come much faster for Protosses when compared to Terrans or Zergs (however, in the long run, Protoss players tend to "max out" sooner). Protoss is typically the less demanding race as I noted in a previous post, and that is why I believe this to be true.
Once again, no race is "easy to master." Hmm, I agree with this to some extent. I do not think that Protoss are less demanding, but I can see your point. Also, I do not believe the results that "come faster for Protoss" are really that significant. No one race completely dominates at any skill level. I think the results are significant. If you have two low tier players of equal skill, let's say a Terran and Protoss, that Terran will experience certain hell. Two gate rushes or any sort of early zealot harass will completely rape the Terran player--marine micro is a difficult thing. Unless the Terran can wall (and even that is not always an option), a Protoss can get a significant lead on a Terran. Yes, 2 marines can kill a zealot with good micro, but holy shit if that even happens. The Protoss player doesn't even need to attend to the zealot while the Terran player will go through hell. At this level of play, the Terran player will practically lose almost all macro if he sacrifices micro to stop a zealot, meanwhile, the toss is already teching goon and expanding. Zergs need to manage their money unit ratios pretty well to get the lead on a Protoss. However, at lower levels, I believe that Zergs have a general advantage over Protoss.
Let's just put it this way. No other race has the ability to gay up their ramps the way Terrans do.
Two gate vs Terran is really laughable, unless we're talking about proxies or maps like Longinus with no ramps.
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On May 15 2008 14:31 Reflex wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2008 14:28 ChaosKnight wrote:On May 15 2008 14:03 caigo wrote:
This thread is about intermediate level players, not complete mastery of a race. I was talking about intermediate mastery. I guess I wasn't clear. On May 15 2008 14:03 caigo wrote:But, if we are talking about complete mastery... On May 15 2008 13:44 ChaosKnight wrote:
To put it simply, each race can always be improved upon. You can never perfect your style or skill at a race, as there is always an extra expansion you could make or dedicate more time to macro or micro, or perhaps, build up more APM. However, as players attempt to get closer to this "perfection," results tend to come much faster for Protosses when compared to Terrans or Zergs (however, in the long run, Protoss players tend to "max out" sooner). Protoss is typically the less demanding race as I noted in a previous post, and that is why I believe this to be true.
Once again, no race is "easy to master." Hmm, I agree with this to some extent. I do not think that Protoss are less demanding, but I can see your point. Also, I do not believe the results that "come faster for Protoss" are really that significant. No one race completely dominates at any skill level. I think the results are significant. If you have two low tier players of equal skill, let's say a Terran and Protoss, that Terran will experience certain hell. Two gate rushes or any sort of early zealot harass will completely rape the Terran player--marine micro is a difficult thing. Unless the Terran can wall (and even that is not always an option), a Protoss can get a significant lead on a Terran. Yes, 2 marines can kill a zealot with good micro, but holy shit if that even happens. The Protoss player doesn't even need to attend to the zealot while the Terran player will go through hell. At this level of play, the Terran player will practically lose almost all macro if he sacrifices micro to stop a zealot, meanwhile, the toss is already teching goon and expanding. Zergs need to manage their money unit ratios pretty well to get the lead on a Protoss. However, at lower levels, I believe that Zergs have a general advantage over Protoss. Let's just put it this way. No other race has the ability to gay up their ramps the way Terrans do. Two gate vs Terran is really laughable, unless we're talking about proxies or maps like Longinus with no ramps.
Well as the terran needs to get more rines to hold off the rax or sd getting wailed on by zelots he sets his tank pop father and father back at lower levels goons usualy pop way before the tank will. and usualy 2 goons with a 2 gate will arrive when the tank does forceing the terran to take scv on min lines to keep that one tank alive becuase the rines cant hit the goons behind the suppy depot that well. TvP at low levels early game is hell.
Although i will say low levels zvp has a certian power over toss that fall away shortly after when the toss goes oh just because i fe doesnt mean i stop making expos for the rest of the game lulz
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On May 15 2008 14:28 ChaosKnight wrote:
I think the results are significant. If you have two low tier players of equal skill, let's say a Terran and Protoss, that Terran will experience certain hell. Two gate rushes or any sort of early zealot harass will completely rape the Terran player--marine micro is a difficult thing. Unless the Terran can wall (and even that is not always an option), a Protoss can get a significant lead on a Terran. Yes, 2 marines can kill a zealot with good micro, but holy shit if that even happens. The Protoss player doesn't even need to attend to the zealot while the Terran player will be feeling some serious pain. At this level of play, the Terran player will practically lose almost all macro if he micros to stop a zealot, meanwhile, the toss is already teching goon and expanding. If the Terran doesn't micro, then he's kissing the game goodbye.
As for ZvP, zergs need to manage their money and unit ratios pretty well to get the lead on a Protoss. However, at lower levels, I believe that Zergs have a general advantage over Protoss. That's another debate, though.
Hmm, I suppose you're right.
But, for a lower-level Protoss player, a well defended ramp is not easy to deal with.
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On May 15 2008 14:42 caigo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2008 14:28 ChaosKnight wrote:
I think the results are significant. If you have two low tier players of equal skill, let's say a Terran and Protoss, that Terran will experience certain hell. Two gate rushes or any sort of early zealot harass will completely rape the Terran player--marine micro is a difficult thing. Unless the Terran can wall (and even that is not always an option), a Protoss can get a significant lead on a Terran. Yes, 2 marines can kill a zealot with good micro, but holy shit if that even happens. The Protoss player doesn't even need to attend to the zealot while the Terran player will be feeling some serious pain. At this level of play, the Terran player will practically lose almost all macro if he micros to stop a zealot, meanwhile, the toss is already teching goon and expanding. If the Terran doesn't micro, then he's kissing the game goodbye.
As for ZvP, zergs need to manage their money and unit ratios pretty well to get the lead on a Protoss. However, at lower levels, I believe that Zergs have a general advantage over Protoss. That's another debate, though. Hmm, I suppose you're right. But, for a lower-level Protoss player, a well defended ramp is not easy to deal with.
Well thats after the terran get siege tanks then the ramps become powerful at low level but liek the first 3 mins is hell for a terran playing agaist a 2 or 3 gate toss
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United States10774 Posts
On May 15 2008 14:44 IzzyCraft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2008 14:42 caigo wrote:On May 15 2008 14:28 ChaosKnight wrote:
I think the results are significant. If you have two low tier players of equal skill, let's say a Terran and Protoss, that Terran will experience certain hell. Two gate rushes or any sort of early zealot harass will completely rape the Terran player--marine micro is a difficult thing. Unless the Terran can wall (and even that is not always an option), a Protoss can get a significant lead on a Terran. Yes, 2 marines can kill a zealot with good micro, but holy shit if that even happens. The Protoss player doesn't even need to attend to the zealot while the Terran player will be feeling some serious pain. At this level of play, the Terran player will practically lose almost all macro if he micros to stop a zealot, meanwhile, the toss is already teching goon and expanding. If the Terran doesn't micro, then he's kissing the game goodbye.
As for ZvP, zergs need to manage their money and unit ratios pretty well to get the lead on a Protoss. However, at lower levels, I believe that Zergs have a general advantage over Protoss. That's another debate, though. Hmm, I suppose you're right. But, for a lower-level Protoss player, a well defended ramp is not easy to deal with. Well thats after the terran get siege tanks then the ramps become powerful at low level but liek the first 3 mins is hell for a terran playing agaist a 2 or 3 gate toss
you know the cycle goes on forever..
microing vs a ramp isn't easy for protoss either
it's not easy for terran either
there
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On May 15 2008 14:31 Reflex wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2008 14:28 ChaosKnight wrote:On May 15 2008 14:03 caigo wrote:
This thread is about intermediate level players, not complete mastery of a race. I was talking about intermediate mastery. I guess I wasn't clear. On May 15 2008 14:03 caigo wrote:But, if we are talking about complete mastery... On May 15 2008 13:44 ChaosKnight wrote:
To put it simply, each race can always be improved upon. You can never perfect your style or skill at a race, as there is always an extra expansion you could make or dedicate more time to macro or micro, or perhaps, build up more APM. However, as players attempt to get closer to this "perfection," results tend to come much faster for Protosses when compared to Terrans or Zergs (however, in the long run, Protoss players tend to "max out" sooner). Protoss is typically the less demanding race as I noted in a previous post, and that is why I believe this to be true.
Once again, no race is "easy to master." Hmm, I agree with this to some extent. I do not think that Protoss are less demanding, but I can see your point. Also, I do not believe the results that "come faster for Protoss" are really that significant. No one race completely dominates at any skill level. I think the results are significant. If you have two low tier players of equal skill, let's say a Terran and Protoss, that Terran will experience certain hell. Two gate rushes or any sort of early zealot harass will completely rape the Terran player--marine micro is a difficult thing. Unless the Terran can wall (and even that is not always an option), a Protoss can get a significant lead on a Terran. Yes, 2 marines can kill a zealot with good micro, but holy shit if that even happens. The Protoss player doesn't even need to attend to the zealot while the Terran player will go through hell. At this level of play, the Terran player will practically lose almost all macro if he sacrifices micro to stop a zealot, meanwhile, the toss is already teching goon and expanding. Zergs need to manage their money unit ratios pretty well to get the lead on a Protoss. However, at lower levels, I believe that Zergs have a general advantage over Protoss. Let's just put it this way. No other race has the ability to gay up their ramps the way Terrans do.
Precisely. Terrans have what is arguably the weakest early-game defense in StarCraft, of which makes walls extremely important. This weakness is only amplified at the intermediate levels.
On May 15 2008 14:31 Reflex wrote:
Two gate vs Terran is really laughable, unless we're talking about proxies or maps like Longinus with no ramps.
Really? A Protoss can just attack+move a few zealots into a Terran's base, not pay attention to them at all, and possibly do significant damage (provided there is no wall). The Terran will probably have 1-4 marines and be creating a factory. The Terran will probably lose the SCV making the Factory and thereby losing tech momentum, as well as (a) lose the marines and get pwnt, followed by losing tons of SCVs in defense, or (b) micro the marines while failing to consistently buy SCVs and having new ones mine, which then causes the Terran to lose economic momentum.
On May 15 2008 14:42 caigo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2008 14:28 ChaosKnight wrote:
I think the results are significant. If you have two low tier players of equal skill, let's say a Terran and Protoss, that Terran will experience certain hell. Two gate rushes or any sort of early zealot harass will completely rape the Terran player--marine micro is a difficult thing. Unless the Terran can wall (and even that is not always an option), a Protoss can get a significant lead on a Terran. Yes, 2 marines can kill a zealot with good micro, but holy shit if that even happens. The Protoss player doesn't even need to attend to the zealot while the Terran player will be feeling some serious pain. At this level of play, the Terran player will practically lose almost all macro if he micros to stop a zealot, meanwhile, the toss is already teching goon and expanding. If the Terran doesn't micro, then he's kissing the game goodbye.
As for ZvP, zergs need to manage their money and unit ratios pretty well to get the lead on a Protoss. However, at lower levels, I believe that Zergs have a general advantage over Protoss. That's another debate, though. Hmm, I suppose you're right. But, for a lower-level Protoss player, a well defended ramp is not easy to deal with.
The Protoss will simply be playing a more defensive mid/late-game. The Terran will probably have trouble moving out with his forces, sending them across the map as a gigantic single file line. Not to mention, the sieging will probably be late (or badly placed), and mines will be non-existent (or, once again, badly placed). Not only will this be easy to defeat with zealots and dragoons alone, but I'm sure an Arbiter will give the Protoss an incredible advantage, forcing the Terran to micro way more than he possibly can.
Using recall offensively will also end the game if the Terran is some annoying turtle.
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who ever said terran is the hardest but the most rewarding has it about right. A great terran player is very versatile. He's got an army built for many stuations, suited to many styles, and is usually good on a large range of map. but becoming good enough to take those rewards is much harder than the other races.
protoss are the easiest by far to play, but isn't as suited to as many situations as terran. people making up situations like ' countering a terran push' or something aren't being realistic. coming up with a specific situation like that says nothing about how hard or easy one race is. it's like me saying trying to counter a 3 gas protoss with mass arbs. oooh, therefore protoss is the hardest and terran is the easiest! naw.
zerg is somewhere in the middle. obviously harder than protoss, but it's not as hard as terran.
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On May 15 2008 14:22 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2008 13:36 Darkmole wrote:On May 15 2008 11:36 clazziquai wrote:PM from fusiondf I dont play iccup but if I did Im sure I would b- toss anyone find this funny? lol yea i find that funny cuz i remember beating him ^^ you've never beaten me
yes i did i have proof replays
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On May 15 2008 14:58 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2008 14:44 IzzyCraft wrote:On May 15 2008 14:42 caigo wrote:On May 15 2008 14:28 ChaosKnight wrote:
I think the results are significant. If you have two low tier players of equal skill, let's say a Terran and Protoss, that Terran will experience certain hell. Two gate rushes or any sort of early zealot harass will completely rape the Terran player--marine micro is a difficult thing. Unless the Terran can wall (and even that is not always an option), a Protoss can get a significant lead on a Terran. Yes, 2 marines can kill a zealot with good micro, but holy shit if that even happens. The Protoss player doesn't even need to attend to the zealot while the Terran player will be feeling some serious pain. At this level of play, the Terran player will practically lose almost all macro if he micros to stop a zealot, meanwhile, the toss is already teching goon and expanding. If the Terran doesn't micro, then he's kissing the game goodbye.
As for ZvP, zergs need to manage their money and unit ratios pretty well to get the lead on a Protoss. However, at lower levels, I believe that Zergs have a general advantage over Protoss. That's another debate, though. Hmm, I suppose you're right. But, for a lower-level Protoss player, a well defended ramp is not easy to deal with. Well thats after the terran get siege tanks then the ramps become powerful at low level but liek the first 3 mins is hell for a terran playing agaist a 2 or 3 gate toss you know the cycle goes on forever.. microing vs a ramp isn't easy for protoss either it's not easy for terran either there
its only hard to micro as toss agnist a terran ramp early on if you attack move past the block lol other wise until the first 2 tanks pop toss is just giving the terran hell hell
Basically at liek 100apm level it 2 gate works like this hell 1 gate
terrran walls becuase he knows a zelot is too much to handel even with about the 2 3 rines he will have when the zelot comes.
The first zelot comes the wall is completed by now and the 2 rines are ready in hold position right behind the sd.
the toss player doesnt slow production he makes maybe 2 more zelots before the first goon timeing pops and by then the terran has maybe 4 rines to deal with 3 zelots he would make more the he needs the tanks for the goons
the 3 zelots run up the ramp wail on the sd not really careing about the rines even with ff they sd will burn down way before a zelot is downed.
The terran has to take a extra scv to repair the sd before it bruns down.
by the time the repair is done the first goon shows up and well it gets free hits on the sd because it shares range with rines to it can hit the sd without much retaliation also the goon can handel 1 2 rines that could get in range with fany high gorund poisitioning.
By then the toss has 2 gates and pop 2 more goons hell breaks loose now becuase you constally had to be 1 more scv to keep the other scv alive becuase the toss wails on that and the sd.
Pushing the first tank even further behind and by the time you get your tank out its out number 3 to 1 from the goons and you need to bring 3 4 scv to keep the sd and the tank alive long enough before the toss backs off and you pop another tank and get siege.
Basically that is low level terran vs toss hell
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On May 15 2008 14:58 ChaosKnight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2008 14:31 Reflex wrote:
Two gate vs Terran is really laughable, unless we're talking about proxies or maps like Longinus with no ramps. Really? A Protoss can just attack+move a few zealots into a Terran's base, not pay attention to them at all, and possibly do significant damage (provided there is no wall). The Terran will probably have 1-4 marines and be creating a factory. The Terran will probably lose the SCV making the Factory and thereby losing tech momentum, as well as (a) lose the marines and get pwnt, followed by losing tons of SCVs in defense, or (b) micro the marines while failing to consistently buy SCVs and having new ones mine, which then causes the Terran to lose economic momentum.
So are you affirming what I just wrote? I basically said that two gating PvT fails hard, unless it's on a map where the Terran can't wall... so I don't understand what you're trying to prove with what you said.
If you're talking about a map with ramps, then yes. The Terran can easily fend off an early zealot attack. A couple of marines with two hold position scvs, repairing each other is more than enough to shut down an early attack. Worse comes to worse, the Terran will just have to make a few more marines to stall until either a tank or scv comes out.
P.S- IzzyCraft, for god's sake man, lay off the drugs before you type!
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On May 15 2008 15:22 Reflex wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2008 14:58 ChaosKnight wrote:On May 15 2008 14:31 Reflex wrote:
Two gate vs Terran is really laughable, unless we're talking about proxies or maps like Longinus with no ramps. Really? A Protoss can just attack+move a few zealots into a Terran's base, not pay attention to them at all, and possibly do significant damage (provided there is no wall). The Terran will probably have 1-4 marines and be creating a factory. The Terran will probably lose the SCV making the Factory and thereby losing tech momentum, as well as (a) lose the marines and get pwnt, followed by losing tons of SCVs in defense, or (b) micro the marines while failing to consistently buy SCVs and having new ones mine, which then causes the Terran to lose economic momentum. So are you affirming what I just wrote? I basically said that two gating PvT fails hard, unless it's on a map where the Terran can't wall... so I don't understand what you're trying to prove with what you said. If you're talking about a map with ramps, then yes. The Terran can easily fend off an early zealot attack. A couple of marines with two hold position scvs, repairing each other is more than enough to shut down an early attack. Worse comes to worse, the Terran will just have to make a few more marines to stall until either a tank or scv comes out.
Lol you honestly think a terran with scrappy 100 apm can keep 2 scv repairing eachother and not screw up while he techs to tanks if the toss has any balls something like that is easly broken also your assumeing that the terran will get tanks out in time before the goons pop which is not usualy the case at the level he is talking about
Psh the only drugs i take is that i'm from cali with a care free attitude
i thought i whent over this i type while watching tv or reading lol so i dont really look or know if im typing something corrently
i rember i had to edit one post becuase it said like
wekk u fubd ut gard ti vekueve sinetgubg kuje tgat
well i find it hard to believe soemthign like that
had pos was off while typing lol
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On May 15 2008 15:22 Reflex wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2008 14:58 ChaosKnight wrote:On May 15 2008 14:31 Reflex wrote:
Two gate vs Terran is really laughable, unless we're talking about proxies or maps like Longinus with no ramps. Really? A Protoss can just attack+move a few zealots into a Terran's base, not pay attention to them at all, and possibly do significant damage (provided there is no wall). The Terran will probably have 1-4 marines and be creating a factory. The Terran will probably lose the SCV making the Factory and thereby losing tech momentum, as well as (a) lose the marines and get pwnt, followed by losing tons of SCVs in defense, or (b) micro the marines while failing to consistently buy SCVs and having new ones mine, which then causes the Terran to lose economic momentum. So are you affirming what I just wrote? I basically said that two gating PvT fails hard, unless it's on a map where the Terran can't wall... so I don't understand what you're trying to prove with what you said. If you're talking about a map with ramps, then yes. The Terran can easily fend off an early zealot attack. A couple of marines with two hold position scvs, repairing each other is more than enough to shut down an early attack. Worse comes to worse, the Terran will just have to make a few more marines to stall until either a tank or scv comes out.
Yes, I was stating that a Terran without a wall can be easily killed off. However, you are correct when you say that an effective wall can protect a Terran throughout the early-game: I doubt anyone would bother arguing over that matter. The latter section of my previous post addresses the rest of the game, however.
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I'm sorry Izzy, I'm not too familiar with the way Terrans play at D---.
I would hope that even a Terran with a "scrappy 100 apm" can hit 'R' on his keyboard and click, especially when only running one base.
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Me beating you Fusionsdf
[url blocked]
[url blocked]
those are the proofs that i beat you... and now im more of a fresh player and that apm is now even higher than ever :D
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On May 15 2008 15:30 Reflex wrote:
I'm sorry Izzy, I'm not too familiar with the way Terrans play at D---.
I would hope that even a Terran with a "scrappy 100 apm" can hit 'R' on his keyboard and click, especially when only running one base.
Apparently you idea of low level play is not as low as my idea of it lol
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intermediate protoss is the easiest
intermediate terran is the hardest
pro level terran is the easiest
pro level zerg is the hardest
imo
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EPT
