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TL.net Attack! (Episode 1, 02/24) - Page 13
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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micronesia
United States24740 Posts
On February 25 2008 16:14 Ilikestarcraft wrote: how good is intrigue at tvz? I believe it's his best mu, or at least it used to be. | ||
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pachi
Melbourne5338 Posts
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JoxxOr
Sweden1502 Posts
On February 25 2008 20:43 pachi wrote: The viewing audience has no criticism or ideas for future shows? FPVOD commentary instead of an observer? I think the most lacking though in this TLAttack was the "no microphone" from Incontroll. IT would have been so much better if he had a mic  | ||
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lake
Canada150 Posts
On February 25 2008 20:43 pachi wrote: The viewing audience has no criticism or ideas for future shows? I'm trying to think of realistic ways of making it more like bnet attack but I can't think of a method that wouldnt get abused by the community as soon as the stream starts In my opinion it would be a really awesome show if it was like a live fpvod with both commentators and the star player talking. But the only way as an obs to not give a huge advantage would be if they just had vision of the star player The current set up needs to be rethought though I think, it just cripples the commentators ability to talk about the game. Of course I don't know if the idea is to make it any more than what it is. I didn't really find the idea of the star trying to show off and ultimately losing in what ended up being really crappy games with a few exceptions. Inc getting owned by fakesteve was lol especially since he played straight up it would be nice if it was real games where the star can explain why they are the star and his opponent isn't as he plays them. Without just resorting to a bm-off. Like bnet attack, instead of the joke games. But that would also require a star that doesn't lose to bad players. I think the players need to be decided before hand and be people who are atleast C. Total newb bashing won't be fun to watch and neither will the star trying to show off and making the games horrible as a result. I don't see a reason why it can't be insightful and educational and entertaining. Edutainment if you will | ||
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True_Spike
Poland3426 Posts
And that's the way it should be. | ||
Chill
Calgary25987 Posts
I feel like people who are asking for commentary might be missing the point. I highly doubt the Korean commentators on BNet Attack commentate the game from beginning to end. My assumption is that they spend the majority of the time talking to the player, and might point out a key move to tease the player or his opponent. That's what we're looking to do. We're not looking to comment on everything that's going on, if you want that I encourage you to watch Liquibition, which will be exactly that. I think the people asking for FPVods haven't thought it all the way through. Do you REALLY want to watch 6-8 games at 350 apm? You probably won't even get an understanding of the game because it will be flying around so fast and won't encode properly. Couple this with the fact that the person streaming the video cannot talk, so if the pro was streaming the FPVod he wouldn't be able to say anything on his mic. And there are a lot of technical issues that go into streaming this (as shown by us having technical difficulties at the start), so asking the pro to stream video would just add another layer to this. Those are a few reasons why this show will never be an FPVod. Even if it were technically capable, I still wouldn't do it because it doesn't make any sense from an audience's perspective. On February 25 2008 22:52 JoxxOr wrote: FPVOD commentary instead of an observer? I think the most lacking though in this TLAttack was the "no microphone" from Incontroll. IT would have been so much better if he had a mic If you want this, then download an FPVod with commentary? I don't see why this would be in TL Attack. What would be the point of an event where someone stomps newbs while solo commenting on it? If you want that I suggest you look up Combat-Ex on Youtube. This coupled with the fact of how hard it is to comment while playing. It's REALLY hard. On February 25 2008 23:12 True_Spike wrote: "But the only way as an obs to not give a huge advantage would be if they just had vision of the star player" And that's the way it should be. Since both pro and player are on the stream, anything we say about either player is heard. There is no way to make it a "fair" game. That's the entire point of this event! Why would you want to watch half a game? The idea is a fun event, not competitive play. I feel like the underlying theme of TL Attack will stay the same but we'll add some polish so things feel like they're running smoothly and a little more professional. But the commentary will stay immature and the opponent will be able to cheat. That's half of the point of this! | ||
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rpf
United States2705 Posts
I do have a couple of comments: - Is it fair for both players to be listening to the streams? While I understand these aren't tournament games, it's still nice for the commentators to be able to say things other than ambiguous comments that don't give anything away to the other player. You can't really discuss certain nuances of the game. For example, I got on the stream just before FakeSteve/ret's timing attack, and someone noted that since both players were on the stream, it was difficult to talk about the games themselves. What's the point of commentators if you can't discuss the actual games? - Players shouldn't be commentating. I used to do RWAs, and it's outstandingly difficult to both play and commentate. Adding commentary after the game has been played is great, but not during the game. It's next to impossible to pay attention to the game and comment simultaneously. | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
Also, a microphone from the pro is pretty much a must. Inc ended up having a good episode without a mic but the quality of the show will definitely go up with a mic. | ||
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Chill
Calgary25987 Posts
On February 26 2008 00:40 rpf wrote: I didn't realize the games were meant to be so relaxed. I haven't seen the show TL Attack is based on, so I didn't quite get that. I do have a couple of comments: - Is it fair for both players to be listening to the streams? While I understand these aren't tournament games, it's still nice for the commentators to be able to say things other than ambiguous comments that don't give anything away to the other player. You can't really discuss certain nuances of the game. For example, I got on the stream just before FakeSteve/ret's timing attack, and someone noted that since both players were on the stream, it was difficult to talk about the games themselves. What's the point of commentators if you can't discuss the actual games? - Players shouldn't be commentating. I used to do RWAs, and it's outstandingly difficult to both play and commentate. Adding commentary after the game has been played is great, but not during the game. It's next to impossible to pay attention to the game and comment simultaneously. Yea dude you're completely missing the point. Have you seen Pros vs Joes or a similar show involving "professionals" versus amatuers? They don't have live in-depth analysis during the games. What they do have is people trash talking and random banter. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25987 Posts
On February 26 2008 00:46 NonY[rC] wrote: I think the mood of the show should adjust for the players. Some newbs want a chance at glory by winning a real game, some newbs are content with a win by cheating, and some newbs just want to be silly. The pros might feel like playing their best to show off their skill or they might offrace or do weird strategies or whatever. The hosts should recognize what kind of game is about to be played and then adjust for it. The newbs should be picked so that there is a variety of games so that the whole audience is satisfied. Also, a microphone from the pro is pretty much a must. Inc ended up having a good episode without a mic but the quality of the show will definitely go up with a mic. Agreed. I think we tried to do that, like giving Fagtron5000 and Bisu-TL hints when they were losing, while avoiding giving anything away when Uncontrollable and SuperiorWolf were playing. It's kind of hard telling what kind of game it's going to be until you're a few minutes into it. A (working) mic will be a prerequisite to being on the show in the future. Inc's lucky he snuck by in episode 1 :D Also I wanted to give you the mousepad for best play for your "ROFLSUPPLECAKES" but SuperiorWolf was just too good. You'll have to be content with 2nd place this time, which is pretty good for only having 2 seconds of air time. | ||
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Chill
Calgary25987 Posts
On February 26 2008 00:54 lololol wrote: It's possible to delay the stream with 2-3 minutes, so the commentators are free to talk about the game, if people want it so much. How would that work? "We're in channel "come"". 2-3 miuntes later people start joining? I mean we could make it work if need be, but I think people need to get over the fact that people are listening to the stream. That is a positive, not a negative. People can turn the stream off if they want, but it probably wouldn't affect what we said at all. | ||
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lake
Canada150 Posts
On February 26 2008 00:59 Chill wrote: How would that work? "We're in channel "come"". 2-3 miuntes later people start joining? I mean we could make it work if need be, but I think people need to get over the fact that people are listening to the stream. That is a positive, not a negative. People can turn the stream off if they want, but it probably wouldn't affect what we said at all. why do you have to announce on the stream what channel you're in or going to? If you want to be the SC equivalent of a horrible spike tv show thats cool but why do you ask for feedback if you're just gonna tell everyone how wrong they are and how great it is watching 2 people flounder arounding building 6 spires while fagtron5000 spams LOL EZ HOMO I could just hang out in x17 for that not to mention pretty much every game ended with the commentators pleading for the players to hurry things up. Imagine how the spectators feel if even the commentators are getting tired of the antics | ||
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Chill
Calgary25987 Posts
On February 26 2008 01:06 lake wrote: why do you have to announce on the stream what channel you're in or going to? If you want to be the SC equivalent of a horrible spike tv show thats cool but why do you ask for feedback if you're just gonna tell everyone how wrong they are and how great it is watching 2 people flounder arounding building 6 spires while fagtron5000 spams LOL EZ HOMO I could just hang out in x17 for that I'm giving you feedback on your feedback. I think a lot of the comments people are making miss some key issues. We need to announce which channel we're in so we can get in it? We can't use the same channel because there's always 40 people and we get put into The Void. So we need to announce a new channel so we can all get in AND so a new 36 people get a chance at a game. There are already plenty of events with commentary, Yankee League, FPVods, replays all over the place. Liquibition will be your answer to having high-level, live commentary on games. There is no point doubling that in a second event, which is why this event should be different. | ||
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lake
Canada150 Posts
Second 1 good player vs 1 baddish player who wants to be good is not the same as liquibition or replays that are all over the place no matter what form it's presented in Seriously youre so adamant about the way you want it you aren't even maknig sense when refuting my suggestions. The mere fact that you have to sit here and refute suggestions on improving the show that you asked for is telling enough about how receptive you are to criticism. | ||
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jr.
Slovenia41 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25987 Posts
In refuting your suggestions, I'm more pointing out a few things that people may have not thought about before suggesting that format change. | ||
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R1CH
Netherlands10341 Posts
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rpf
United States2705 Posts
On February 26 2008 00:53 Chill wrote: Yea dude you're completely missing the point. Have you seen Pros vs Joes or a similar show involving "professionals" versus amatuers? They don't have live in-depth analysis during the games. What they do have is people trash talking and random banter. -_-;; I haven't seen that show, but I understand what you're saying. I actually thought the games were supposed to be semi-serious games. I misunderstood. | ||
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