EPTI agree.
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle - Page 7
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6813 Posts
I agree. | ||
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TMNT
3118 Posts
But feel free to make sarcastic posts like a 10 year old. For all our Zerg supporters here, somebody please try to explain how all the Zerg pros have better ZvP than ZvT and the game is still balanced lol? | ||
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Puosu
7003 Posts
On November 15 2025 03:40 TMNT wrote: Im a dork | ||
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Ze'ev
151 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/s8lcwIU.png?fb) TMNT is the new MTCN. | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10328 Posts
On November 15 2025 01:27 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Look at this shit. zerg has a 44% WR vs Terran. Do you ever see zerg players complaining or screaming imba etc ? And still zerg is finding ways to win ASL. If this mf TMNT saw protoss with a 44% WR he will be asking blizzard to make a balance patch for sure. and 44% with the most insane roster of zerg players this earth knows btw. SK SOMA QUEEN JAEDONG HERO. And protoss is basically Snow Bisu Mini lol. And somehow the WR protoss vs zerg is closer to 50. Cuz Rain is retired or semi retired. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/pMAXpzF.png) If you actually compare talent pool vs talent pool i Swear to god Protoss is doing fantastic. 44% WR zerg vs terran gentleman. And here we are listening to this Surtur Brood player telling us all that bs and manipualting data as he wishes. Holyshit i went to eloboard to check the Roaring currets stats and i was expecting something crazy for protoss. like 20% WR cuz of the way he talks. then the score is so close that i couldnt believe my eyes. In fairness, Soma didnt have to play any Terrans in brackets (though the only terran i would really have him disadvantaged to would be FlaSh), and Soulkey's 4 peat was pretty much all Zergs and Protosses, with only really the big challenge having been a Ro8 match against Light as a serious Terran contender (he was always going to smash Rush and Sharp). So that's why zergs aren't complaining about ZvT right now when there's... not really much to complain about because we have too little sample size and results at the moment in bracket stage in the recent years. | ||
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Malinor
Germany4734 Posts
Game 1 Cannot find a VOD with korean commentary. That is unfortunate. | ||
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TMNT
3118 Posts
On November 15 2025 04:41 Ze'ev wrote: zzz so no analysis then? No reason to take a newbie seriously if hes just throwing around insults, freaking out like a child, and refusing (and unable) to substantiate his opinion as the least bit credible. Fucking insane that after everything you said was already proved wrong by me, you can keep going on like this. Another one proving me right in this post. Keep jerking off then. Also madness that there are multiple stats laid down that suggest the ZvP imba and none of the Zerg supporters here can explain, yet the one who laid them down is accused of ignoring the stats. You lot are full of shit and are just talking like trolls. | ||
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Ze'ev
151 Posts
On November 15 2025 05:17 TMNT wrote: still no analysis eh? Just admit you can't give analysis and your claim is therefore baseless. If you knew what you were talking about you would just explain: instead I get childish rage and shallow commentary but never any analysis. Fucking insane that after everything you said was already proved wrong by me, you can keep going on like this. Another one proving me right in this post. Keep jerking off then. Also madness that there are multiple stats laid down that suggest the ZvP imba and none of the Zerg supporters here can explain, yet the one who laid them down is accused of ignoring the stats. You lot are full of shit and are just talking like trolls. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6813 Posts
On November 15 2025 07:52 Ze'ev wrote: still no analysis eh? Just admit you can't give analysis and your claim is therefore baseless. If you knew what you were talking about you would just explain: instead I get childish rage and shallow commentary but never any analysis. TMNT battle report ? With his own analitical mind put into it and detailing build orders and counters. No gonna lie that would hit hard. That will prove one thing for sure. Is him the coach that never played the game but he understand it perfectly and can helps others to improve and progress and offer and clear vision of what is happening ? Or is him the guy that pick data from everywhere ( Cuz is not even his data ) and just share it with others but has no idea what it means or cant understand really what to do with it apart from sharing it with someone that actually understand it. Is funny how zerg vs terran WR is so low at 44% yet i never seen this guy saying that zerg need better zerg vs terran maps. Yet Protoss is doing way better but protoss need all the help you can give to them lol. | ||
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TMNT
3118 Posts
On November 15 2025 07:52 Ze'ev wrote: still no analysis eh? Just admit you can't give analysis and your claim is therefore baseless. If you knew what you were talking about you would just explain: instead I get childish rage and shallow commentary but never any analysis. Analysis of what in the first place lol? | ||
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TMNT
3118 Posts
On November 15 2025 08:12 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Is funny how zerg vs terran WR is so low at 44% yet i never seen this guy saying that zerg need better zerg vs terran maps. Yet Protoss is doing way better but protoss need all the help you can give to them lol. I distinctively remember you yourself were crying about TvZ maps a while ago along with... guess whom? Me. Can't remember which topic and how to find it back though. But this is what I can find two years ago: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2023 03:34 TMNT wrote: Maybe I should start a new thread on this as well, because I normally was more concerned about P win rate being sub 50% in all matchups. But the last two seasons have me realized that TvZ is also a big problem: http://eloboard.com/men/bbs/board.php?bo_table=map_stac Polypoid: 56.3% Vermeer: 57% Eclipse: 52.6% Sylphid: 59.6% (who let this happen?) Fighting Spirit: 51.9% (and I thought it was the worst map ever) Allegro: 51.4% Ascension: 58.5% Revolver: 54.3% Butter: 53% Largo: 55.1% (that's why you were replaced by Allegro) Nemesis: 56.1% Odyssey: 56.9% Metaverse: 59.7% (sigh) Monopoly: 51.9% 76: 52.3% Neo Arkanoid: 51.6% Retro: 50.4% (there's hope) Goodnight: 47% (finally, but ZvP is broken here) Dark Orgin: 46.5% Heartbreak Ridge: 46.1% (turns out maps need to have a backdoor for Z to beat T) With this stats I'm surprised Zerg players haven't moaned more during the years. Maybe because they still get to beat Protoss? Also hilarious that FS and Eclipse are the two maps Arty hate the most while Vermeer was well made according to him >  Once again, when it comes to fact. Get it right first. | ||
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Ze'ev
151 Posts
On November 15 2025 08:53 TMNT wrote: your talking about facts whenI distinctively remember you yourself were crying about TvZ maps a while ago along with... guess whom? Me. Can't remember which topic and how to find it back though. But this is what I can find two years ago: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2023 03:34 TMNT wrote: Maybe I should start a new thread on this as well, because I normally was more concerned about P win rate being sub 50% in all matchups. But the last two seasons have me realized that TvZ is also a big problem: http://eloboard.com/men/bbs/board.php?bo_table=map_stac Polypoid: 56.3% Vermeer: 57% Eclipse: 52.6% Sylphid: 59.6% (who let this happen?) Fighting Spirit: 51.9% (and I thought it was the worst map ever) Allegro: 51.4% Ascension: 58.5% Revolver: 54.3% Butter: 53% Largo: 55.1% (that's why you were replaced by Allegro) Nemesis: 56.1% Odyssey: 56.9% Metaverse: 59.7% (sigh) Monopoly: 51.9% 76: 52.3% Neo Arkanoid: 51.6% Retro: 50.4% (there's hope) Goodnight: 47% (finally, but ZvP is broken here) Dark Orgin: 46.5% Heartbreak Ridge: 46.1% (turns out maps need to have a backdoor for Z to beat T) With this stats I'm surprised Zerg players haven't moaned more during the years. Maybe because they still get to beat Protoss? Also hilarious that FS and Eclipse are the two maps Arty hate the most while Vermeer was well made according to him > Once again, when it comes to fact. Get it right first. 1) you cant actually show Eon complaining about imbalance by your own admission 2) you cant give any analysis whatsoever on the imbalance 3) the thread you linked barely has any balance complaints at all and certainly nothing of this magnitude in length, or the amount of notable zerg players. wheres that analysis btw? On November 15 2025 08:12 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: TMNT battle report ? With his own analitical mind put into it and detailing build orders and counters. No gonna lie that would hit hard. That will prove one thing for sure. Is him the coach that never played the game but he understand it perfectly and can helps others to improve and progress and offer and clear vision of what is happening ? Or is him the guy that pick data from everywhere ( Cuz is not even his data ) and just share it with others but has no idea what it means or cant understand really what to do with it apart from sharing it with someone that actually understand it. Is funny how zerg vs terran WR is so low at 44% yet i never seen this guy saying that zerg need better zerg vs terran maps. Yet Protoss is doing way better but protoss need all the help you can give to them lol.  | ||
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Kraekkling
624 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/nqHDZMTD/h.png) | ||
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TMNT
3118 Posts
On November 15 2025 09:49 Ze'ev wrote: Do you know where you are? Do you understand the topic, what were discussing? The games, the matchup? Do you need some help? How could you possibly be confused about context? your talking about facts when 1) you cant actually show Eon complaining about imbalance by your own admission 2) you cant give any analysis whatsoever on the imbalance 3) the thread you linked barely has any balance complaints at all and certainly nothing of this magnitude in length, or the amount of notable zerg players. wheres that analysis btw? The link is to a post where I highlighted the imba of TvZ maps - which Eon claimed that he's never seen me saying anything about. Have some reading comprehension. I literally said right there I remember him crying about TvZ maps but can't remember where or how to find the posts. Also quite recently he was crying about PvZ maps being too good for P (more spots to hide zealots). I don't understand what analysis you are demanding. But first of all, why do I have to supply your demand when you yourself have provided fuck all arguments about anything related to BW in this thread since joining this conversation? All you have done up to this point is making personal insults towards me. Where's your response to post #120 when I took the time to point out one by one that all you said was wrong? A meme? More questions? Now, the following post is not directed towards you specifically, as I can't spend all time for people like you. So please fuck off. | ||
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TMNT
3118 Posts
1/ the global ZvP win rate during Kespa is 54.7% (~10k games) 2/ the global ZvP win rate since eloboard was created is 52.4% (~ 26k games) 3/ the ZvP score in SL finals is 11-2 4/ the ZvP score in KCM finals (team game btw) is 10-1 5/ every Zerg players has significantly better win rate in ZvP than ZvT 6/ the gameplay shows a clear disadvantage for Protoss with regards to information in the early game, which leads to the Hydra bust problem - a move that can kill Protoss outright which has repeatedly occurred for years and never been resolved. Any person with more than average IQ and sufficient education would understand that if a mirror matchup is balanced then a non-mirror matchup has to be imba, and if the above 6 points are not enough evidences for you to deduce that the advantage leans towards Z, I don't know what to say. But feel free to provide counterpoints and counter-evidences. Just remember that if our Zerg supporters here want to disprove the ZvP imba, they have to explain why the above 6 points aren't valid. | ||
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Ze'ev
151 Posts
On November 15 2025 11:27 TMNT wrote: Do you even know what burden of proof is? your making a claim; substantiate the claim. zvp is imbalanced and this series proves it: either analyze something in this series or analyze any number of recent games to demonstrate your high level of understanding of zvp and how it is fundamentally imbalanced. Your pretending not to know what im talking about because we both know your a scrub who cant give fuck all in terms of analysis; you cant meet the burden of your claim. The link is to a post where I highlighted the imba of TvZ maps - which Eon claimed that he's never seen me saying anything about. Have some reading comprehension. I literally said right there I remember him crying about TvZ maps but can't remember where or how to find the posts. Also quite recently he was crying about PvZ maps being too good for P (more spots to hide zealots). I don't understand what analysis you are demanding. But first of all, why do I have to supply your demand when you yourself have provided fuck all arguments about anything related to BW in this thread since joining this conversation? All you have done up to this point is making personal insults towards me. Where's your response to post #120 when I took the time to point out one by one that all you said was wrong? A meme? More questions? Now, the following post is not directed towards you specifically, as I can't spend all time for people like you. So please fuck off. | ||
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Ze'ev
151 Posts
On November 15 2025 11:37 TMNT wrote: This isnt analysis its low level data mining and surface level commentary. your clearly a D level scrub loooolNow, the main topic of current conversation is: "Is ZvP imba?" My opinion is yes. And such opinion is supported by the following evidences: 1/ the global ZvP win rate during Kespa is 54.7% (~10k games) 2/ the global ZvP win rate since eloboard was created is 52.4% (~ 26k games) 3/ the ZvP score in SL finals is 11-2 4/ the ZvP score in KCM finals (team game btw) is 10-1 5/ every Zerg players has significantly better win rate in ZvP than ZvT 6/ the gameplay shows a clear disadvantage for Protoss with regards to information in the early game, which leads to the Hydra bust problem - a move that can kill Protoss outright which has repeatedly occurred for years and never been resolved. Any person with more than average IQ and sufficient education would understand that if a mirror matchup is balanced then a non-mirror matchup has to be imba, and if the above 6 points are not enough evidences for you to deduce that the advantage leans towards Z, I don't know what to say. But feel free to provide counterpoints and counter-evidences. Just remember that if our Zerg supporters here want to disprove the ZvP imba, they have to explain why the above 6 points aren't valid. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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TMNT
3118 Posts
Turns out it's actually your responsibility to provide high level data analysis and in depth commentary to prove that the matchup is balanced, starting with disproving the 6 observations above lol. | ||
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Ze'ev
151 Posts
On November 15 2025 13:25 TMNT wrote: lol wtf. You’re making a positive claim about balance — and making a positive claim means you have the burden of proof. Everyone else finds you ridiculous and is expressing skepticism, and you’re refusing to actually substantiate your claim beyond shallow reasoning, data-mining, or insulting people because you can’t back it up and you’re too insecure to back down.The burden of proof actually lies with the side who claims ZvP is balanced, for reason I already stated: if PvP is balanced then PvZ can't be balanced because P and Z are different. Tell me why the default assumption is "balanced"? Turns out it's actually your responsibility to provide high level data analysis and in depth commentary to prove that the matchup is balanced, starting with disproving the 6 observations above lol. | ||
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sas.Sziky
Hungary333 Posts
 see you guys in next ASL | ||
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