I wanted to answer you all after coming back to Poland, but the situation is serious enough that I will do it from here. Today we have first day off, so I could read it all and I have time to address it.
First of all I want to let you know, that of course I didn't know that Rapid will be / was invited and will come to the LAN. I was surprised to see him in hotel lobby, same as the players who I arrived from the airport with.
Before the event I've only talked with Artosis and Saiyan about them being the casters, of course I was planning to bring as many people as possible to the cast, to make it feels like we are in the LAN party. First day of the cast I was asked to bring Rapid to help with the cast since both Artosis and me were playing/working hard, to be honest it crossed my mind that I shouldn't allow for it, and during a cast I was thinking that it might end up badly - but I was really working my ass out here and I didn't really have time to seat and think about it the day one. I had to set up all the computers, players cameras, fpview, we had only 2 cameras first day, so I needed to switch them and install on each player computer separately after each game, capture them, solve different issues like audio, video, microphones, sharing feed for the casters etc. Not to mention things like obsing the games, updating scores, switching scenes etc. It's probably hard to believe for some people, but it's really a lot of work to make all those things work live on stream, and it was my priority to deliver the best reportage, content, stream out of this event. That being said, it's not justifying my bad decision / judgement on that day, and I agree it's my mistake. Of course after the first day I realized that having Rapid on the stream was a mistake, and I didn't allow him to the cast on the next days.
I've talked with Rapid about it and told him that I hope that he will make some kind of a statement where he explains all this and shows his side of the story, at the same time he knows that I won't bring him back to the casts, at least not until he will clarify the situation, adress the allegations, apologize to some people and resolve this matter. You need to know that banning Rapid was one of the hardest things I've done during all those years of working on StarCraft. I know him for a long time, as he was casting BSL for multiple seasons and I wish him all the best, at the same time he didn't do anything to address any of the allegations towards him. Rapid for now will be banned from casting indefinitely.
Long story short: I screwed up allowing Rapid to cast day one, but I did work my ass off to make this LAN as good as possible and I was focused on so many different things that my mind didn't take this matter as seriously as it should have.
Personally I hope the BSL keeps growing and improving.
I can understand a temporary lapse of judgement.
I am glad you are addressing the issue.
I now know that his contribution was not trivial. He may be the best guy in person in most situations. However ignoring the allegations is not the way to go. It is a serious matter now just as it was in 2020.
I hope he can improve himself as well for his sake and everyone around.
I hold the BSL in high regard.
Personally I will continue to watch, enjoy and recommend the content you provide.
I also hope Rus_Brain as well does not let him cast an eventual RCG, Corrupted Cup or any future event that he has the absolute final say in.
If anyone is still a close personal friend with Rapid tell him it's not too late to address this. Casting may be out of the question, but some things you don't do just because you like or may benefit you in some way. Looking around the threads one can see the arguments made for ignoring this, silence or right out trolling. Those are not the people I would want defending me in the way they do.
On December 14 2023 15:31 cRoSsyy wrote: Not everyone blamed you Zzzero. I appreciate how much you are doing for the community. Looking forward to play upcoming BSLs.
I don't really think anyone was really blaming Zero, more just wanting clarity on the situation. Seeing as Zero himself banned rapid from casting his events 3 years ago and then for him to randomly be casting day one without any clarifications was extremely odd. Since BSL is primarily community funded it is important to bring clarity to the community for these types of controversial decisions/oversight. It certainly didn't help that you had people who were at the LAN defending Rapid's predatory behavior as no big deal either.
I doubt that most people would have even cared or brought this up if this wasn't branded as a BSL/Zero event. If this was just a random russian/polish rus_goon LAN that Rapid was casting, I would assume it would have mostly gone unnoticed. It's especially painful though when, not only is a caster banned for being a predator, but they clearly don't really know the game very well either.
I hope BSL can continue to be funded, and wish Zero the best of luck. I'm sure running an open event in a different country has a world of hurdles that the average TL or reddit poster has no clue about, and I'm glad Rapid was removed from casting after the first day. Although it was a bit slow in my opinion as it's a pretty obvious blunder.
Hiding under a rock is not a good strategy for anyone who is wishing to return or reestablish themselves into a community that they have been shunned away from. If Rapid ever wants to make a public statement, I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in seeing what he would have to say. I bet he would even have a ton of defenders from certain eastern eu countries that may ore may not be "new accounts"
I appreciate you taking some time to make this statement. The oversight itself is an unfinished ruling on rapids removal from the BSL and it never being addressed. Maybe rapid has changed, but it doesn't hide the fact that he just up and left with no statement whatsoever. It would have been nice to hear his statement following the removal from BSL but again he abandoned us, and then hoped we would just accept him. I still don't but I'm also willing to hear him out for you and BSL.
This makes a lot of sense. I've hosted a couple tournaments and it's actually huge work to put these things together. I hope people don't boycott the event over this sort of unintended oversight.
A not small part of me feels sympathy for Rapid after all this. People are quick to pull out the pitchforks when one or more pretty girls say, "This is making me really uncomfortable". On the other hand, Rapid is probably feeling Extremely uncomfortable by the way he is treated in the community - but very few people are willing to raise a finger for him. Avoiding that sort of discomfort by vanishing seems perfectly logical.
A LOT of what makes people uncomfortable is either arbitrary or unknowable until you've crossed that invisible line. With a large enough sample size of people disliking you or whatever, you might draw generalizations that keep you safe - but you'll still never know for sure if pursuing what you want from someone will upset them or be the best thing to do in the long run. Engaging with other people is always a risk. Take too many risks in too short of a time, and have enough of them critically fail - and that's it, reputation ruined. Game over. No re.
Firstly, Mr. Zero, in light of how things played out at the LAN (removal of Rapid from the cast after day 1), I wish you hadn't more or less been forced to make this statement before you were ready to give a more complete statement and fully explain what happened here. But now that we're here, there are some obvious additional questions.
- Who invited Rapid to the LAN in the first place?
- Who asked that Rapid join the cast on day 1?
- Do you assume responsibility for these two actions, or are those individuals held accountable as well in some way?
I'm not here to judge Rapid, but I did trust BSL's judgement of him. I'm an individual, BSL is an organization much more capable of making that judgement than me. Yes, even after years of silence it's still worth hearing his side of the story (not that it should necessarily change anything in terms of his involvement). The real issue, of course, was Rapid being involved in a BSL event without any resolution of a previous BSL decision to remove him from the organization.
In my opinion, it's still unclear who is really responsible for what happened at the LAN, and how something like this would be prevented in the future. Just more to be said here before I would trust supporting BSL again.
With all that nonsense said - thanks for putting on an otherwise great tournament. I did enjoy the opportunity to play in the qualifiers as well.
Please........... This is at best a cheap cover up for the poor decisions of your godfather there, and grown up competent adults know much better than to let him off the hook by accepting that u'll take the hit, I STRONGLY hope that those who raised their voices here keep pressing the matter that the main issue is not Rapid's presence and absence, but your submissive relationship to Mr Above-the-rules. This is but a sample, and not the first one. Neither would it be the last one.
Thanks for making a statement on the matter. To me the most important thing was to know that Rapid being a caster at Thailand wasn't a sudden reversal of his ban, and that you did not invite him specifically to help out with casting. It's enough to know that it was just a heat of the moment decision and not a deliberate change in policy.
For the record, I already suspected that was the case, although it does leave me puzzled why he was there if you didn't invite him. But in the end, what's more important is that we hold people to a high standard of good conduct and don't just forget about past issues of harassment as if they didn't happen.
Thank you for breaking silence despite having been busy. While it was more important to address the issue publicly immediately imho, it is what it is.
Your answer doesn't fully statisfy me, because we didn't get full info on Rapid being there yet. From Rus_Brain's post and yours we can assume: 1. Rapid was invited by Rus_Brain 2. (1 of the reasons) Rus_Brain chose to invite Rapid was because he was able to convince a progamer, i.e. Sharp, to attend 3. Rus_Brain knew about Rapid's history 4. Rus_Brain didn't inform you about any of these decisions
We don't know if Rapid reached out to Rus_Brain first or if Rus_Brain reached out to Rapid. This matters for integrity's sake. For clarity's sake it's also important we get those answers. What deal was made with Rapid? Was he offered to cast again because he could bring in Sharp? Would he still have been invited for being pro at taking pictures if not? (lmao)
Since you agreed to stick your brand (BSL) on Rus_Brain's tournament, you should have been informed on Rapid being there prior to boarding your plane. The same can be said for all others involved: They should have been made aware that Rapid will be there. I'm sorry you were put in this awkward situation far away from home.
If Rus_Brain doesn't want to disclose more factual information, it would be nice if you or other attendees told us more about what you know so we can get a clearer picture on why the fuck Rapid was invited and why he got a chair and mic. The first is already questionable, but if the latter never happened none of this was necessary.
Finally I find it a bit eerie that none of the attendees spoke up about this matter. I find it hard to believe no other attendee than you knew about Rapid's history before-hand and/or didn't read TL to learn about it during all this time.
@Rus_Brain You still have opportunity to come clean and own your mistakes. @Rapid Why are you still silent, but decided it was a good idea to randomly pop up after 3 years and cast on this BSL branded tournament despite being fucking banned by BSL because of the numerous allegations against you?
Thank you Zzzero for taking the time and post an update despite still not being back and rested! It means a lot.
Thank you for clarifying that it was not your decision to have Rapid at the event, and allowing him to cast was a spur-of-the-moment type of mistake that you have since acknowledged and owe up to. I am glad that the integrity of BSL is not compromised and that you did the right thing during the following days!
For the record, I do not have a personal grudge against Rapid. I do not like the way he handled the situation when it all went down three years ago and I understand your decision from back them to back away from being associated with him until his name was cleared or otherwise. What puzzled me the most is that despite the ban, he was given a forum again. Regardless why the ban was issued, it just did not paint BSL in a good picture. However, your statement makes it clear that this was not a premediated exercise and you were caught unaware for the most of it. I am happy with this, we all make mistakes, but it takes courage to admit your wrong doings and twice as much courage to apologize for them. So, well done.
Still, more details on the whole event and situation would definitely be welcome. I am sure I do not need to list them as people in the thread have already pointed them out, but below is a list in any case. I by no means hold you accountable to answer these immediately (or ever), but it would be good if they are addressed at some point:
1. Can you give us more details around the event whenever you feel comfortable talking about it, i.e., when you are rested and are not trying to juggle a thousand more tasks at the same time? 2. Could you clarify who invited Rapid to the event (if known) and his purpose of being there? 3. Did Rapid have a discussion with you or any of the other organizers addressing the controversy around his name? 4. Now that we are at a done deal where you were caught off guard and mistakes were made, what are the repercussions that follow from this? 5. Finally, would anyone take responsibility for the mistake that happened and are there going to be any consequences as a result?
As I said, please address these at your own time whenever is comfortable if you decide to address the questions at all. Once again, thank you for your statement, I am glad all is clear now and I can enjoy the VoDs. Hope everyone had a great time and thank you for putting in the work to organize this and make sure everyone's needs were accommodated during the event. Thank you for contributing to keep the scene alive.
I appreciate you releasing this statement, though as others have said it is incomplete and after you have some well deserved rest you can add to it or release a more detailed one later at your convenience.
Setting up for a tournament is a lot of work, you rightly pointed out all the steps, it s doubly so as you are fresh of a long travel, tired and jetlagged.
That being said, those steps are also always there for such a tournament and should be planned properly. It doesn't take away from the actual difficulty of them, but they shouldn't either be used as an excuse to get rapid behind the mic. Sure rapid could have helped setup, test the system, hung out and be on the pictures. He s a free man, what he and everyone there does privately is their business. He can be your good friend to this day as well, it s irrelevant.
You were asked to bring rapid? Whoever made this call should come clean. I m sure you were exhausted and also possibly not in a position to refuse but someone is ultimately responsible and must own it. There must also be a clear commitment that such issues will never happen again (be it rapid or anyone else banned from BSL). I appreciate you recognise the issue and reaffirming Rapid's ban, kudos for that.
Finally while you (or whoever asked you to use him day 1) pulled rapid after day 1, there was no statement, to my knowledge, that it had been a mistake. Should have done it beginning of day 2 on stream instead of pretending nothing happened. This is water under the bridge now but do consider it for next time an issue arises, though hopefully there won't be one.
Again you re tired after a well run event (if we ignore this one blight, which is honestly sad and such an own goal for what was otherwise a great event) and it is understandable so please enjoy some rest, take the time you need, and then come back with a a bit more answers to some of the outstanding questions if you feel like it, or at the very least update your processes internally to avoid the situation in the future.
Same for whoever asked you to bring rapid. Mistakes can be made, but they shouldn't be recurring. Also can we be assured you are the one running BSL going forward and this situation were someone else essentially overrules you in your own event won't happen again? I would support you and I trust you, but if you re not the one making the calls, then I wouldn't trust whoever does.
This was at best amateur negligence or at worst malicious action, neither have a place if you want to call yourself a professional organization. I hope you tighten your processes and grow from it and be successful. Everyone makes mistakes, it s normal and this statement is a first step in owning it and I praise you for it. Best of luck to you and long live BSL.
Edit: few edits upon rereading zzzero s post and the sequence of events described. I will accept the reasoning and assurances given here, even if i don't fully agree with them and there are some unanswered questions.
As a TO: The moment you saw Rapid walk in the door of the venue you should have walked up to him and politely, yet firmly asked him to leave. That would be the integrity thing to do. You have publicly cut ties with him and banned him. Hanging out with him at the hotel is fine, but the moment he enters a BSL related event, he should be booted right back out. Not doing this brings into question how much any of the BSL rules mean. On top of that you then let the guy cast. I'll save any comments about his casting for my second response, but if you're really that worried about people to talk about starcraft, in a room full of pro players, come on. You could tap half the people playing and they probably would have casted at some point. I've held live events and I know it can be annoying to find a caster sometimes, but of all the people to tap, you picked the one guy you've publicly burned in the past? That's not a great look.
My personal opinion: I don't know enough about the accusations made towards Rapid, because I wasn't active when it all came out. But I do know that he has never denied them or tried to defend himself. That to me is just disgusting. Even politicians know to at least deny things, even if they are true. Additionally, every report I've seen or person I've talked to who's met Rapid in person said he was a creep and not that great to talk to. And also his casting just sucks. With all of these things combined, why are you softballing this? The way I read your statement is that you're more sad that people are upset about Rapid being there than anything else. Why are you trying to defend a guy who won't defend himself? Sure, you might have been friends or maybe you still are. But at some point you have to go "wow, my friend is being a bad person, maybe we shouldn't be friends". We've all done it, it's part of being an adult. As far as I can see, you're defending Rapid because Rus_brain liked the dude, and has said in other threads "fk the kids", so we know how he feels.
At this point ZZZero, you're in a corner. You can either choose to defend Rapid, and you'll win the support of no_brain, and his bots on polish 4chan, or you can side with the community, double down on the Rapid ban, and call out rus. The choice is yours, and I don't envy you.
EDIT (forgot this sentence): I get that decision making in the heat of battle isn’t easy (a decade of production and running events), but there’s still consequences of a wrong choice. I do think you’re a great person Zero.
I find entire thing riddiculous. You guys made really big deal out of nothing. Asking and demanding explanations, putting very serious statements etc. It feels like this is a case of life and death. Just step back and look again on the entire thing and ask yourselves what are you doing. And if, in the end, you actually find this is a very important thing in your life, I am genuinely sorry for you.
There it is, the statement is not satisfying enough. The mob demands names, dates, a full confession including the dude's feelings. They would have acted differently, stood their ground, stopped the tournament, abandoned management, kicked Rapid and Sharp out all in the name of integrity. You definitely would have done that.
Very emotional screed in #14. I think nobody cares that much about your personal opinion which you propably think is more important than anyone elses. And making the irony of rus_brain or Polish "4chan" as you said is just pitiful. You hurt my bots feelings.
But yeah, at least one question wasn't answered and I'm also curious: who invited Rapid to the LAN? (I suppose someone did because after all this time, I wouldn't imagine him coming just like that to that event)
On December 15 2023 00:02 Chaosu wrote: Some of you are unreasonably entitled demanding answers to your questions. Especially those questions which are already answered.
Hello respectable forum veteran.
How nice of you to spew some more of your opinions on this ordeal after 6+ years of inactivity on TL and forever more concerning BW related topics, be brave and name who you're refering to with "Some of you". Be clear. Also please enlighten me on which questions have already been clearly answered and what the answer to those questions is and answered by who. While you're at it also provide a source including a quote of where you found said answers.
Either contribute something useful here or shut up, same goes for last 3 posters that haven't contributed shit and decide their opinion should be heard.
On December 14 2023 19:40 nikolaus8844 wrote: Please........... This is at best a cheap cover up for the poor decisions of your godfather there, and grown up competent adults know much better than to let him off the hook by accepting that u'll take the hit, I STRONGLY hope that those who raised their voices here keep pressing the matter that the main issue is not Rapid's presence and absence, but your submissive relationship to Mr Above-the-rules. This is but a sample, and not the first one. Neither would it be the last one.
How is this a cheap coverup for poor decisions? It's not a perfect response but it's a start and over time it will take shape and be a productive conversation and learning experience. This isn't some witch hunt, and we aren't putting ZZZero to some fire. Just looking for accountability and responsibility.
On December 15 2023 00:02 Chaosu wrote: Some of you are unreasonably entitled demanding answers to your questions. Especially those questions which are already answered.
Not all questions were answered and they did bring up new ones.
On December 15 2023 00:22 dabadeem wrote: I find entire thing riddiculous. You guys made really big deal out of nothing. Asking and demanding explanations, putting very serious statements etc. It feels like this is a case of life and death. Just step back and look again on the entire thing and ask yourselves what are you doing. And if, in the end, you actually find this is a very important thing in your life, I am genuinely sorry for you.
It's not nothing, it's genuine concern. It's not life or death but this is work and his livelihood for the time being. We want BSL to continue to thrive and enjoy the event's he put on. It's just disturbing that someone with Rapid's background was allowed back without a single remorseful sentiment or denial of accusations.
On December 15 2023 01:04 ShadPro wrote: There it is, the statement is not satisfying enough. The mob demands names, dates, a full confession including the dude's feelings. They would have acted differently, stood their ground, stopped the tournament, abandoned management, kicked Rapid and Sharp out all in the name of integrity. You definitely would have done that.
XDDDDDDDDDÐD
Now let's see Rapids statement
I've been wanting rapids statement since the entire allegations started 3 years ago.
On December 15 2023 00:02 Chaosu wrote: Some of you are unreasonably entitled demanding answers to your questions. Especially those questions which are already answered.
Hello respectable forum veteran.
How nice of you to spew some more of your opinions on this ordeal after 6+ years of inactivity on TL and forever more concerning BW related topics, be brave and name who you're refering to with "Some of you". Be clear. Also please enlighten me on which questions have already been clearly answered and what the answer to those questions is and answered by who. While you're at it also provide a source including a quote of where you found said answers.
Either contribute something useful here or shut up, same goes for last 3 posters that haven't contributed shit and decide their opinion should be heard.
Funny how you act authoritatively and seem to think the amount of posts gives you some kind of position to dictate who should post here and what. On top of that are under the impression that your post "contributed" anything to the discussion whilst being a summary of obvious statements and ridiculous demands
Thanks for the statement ZZZero. There are still a lot of missing pieces that would give us a full picture of what happened. At the minimum, we appreciate that Rapid was given the axe after you acknowledged the mistake which led him to being at the event in the first place.
As others have said, we're still missing key facts, though with Rus_Brain's statement earlier, we can probably see what was going on. Brain wanted to bring more firepower to the event in the form of Sharp. Rapid could get him that. It's still unclear who reached out to who, but based upon the way that Brain speaks about Rapid, it's likely that the two did not randomly link up again out of the blue, and that their relationship has continued in spite of the allegations 3 years ago.
ZZZero, realizing that Brain likely brought Rapid back, probably did not want to step on any toes and get into an argument with Brain regarding the fact that Rapid was banned previously, which likely caused him to give pause to a decision on removing Rapid from the event. It took the community response to give ZZZero the confidence to make that decision.
Ultimately, the whole situation seems mostly an issue of Rus_Brain having a desire to make the event as good as possible, which is fine, but at the cost of ethics by bringing back someone who was banned. To this moment, we still do not have any statement from Rapid himself. He's been given ample time, and no doubt he is aware of these threads at this point taking issue with his sudden return. The fact that he has had 3 years to make a response, and now another few days to issue one to address everything, speaks volumes of his silence.
I also look forward to hopefully seeing these NW brigaders leave our forums. Please don't come back.
On December 15 2023 00:02 Chaosu wrote: Some of you are unreasonably entitled demanding answers to your questions. Especially those questions which are already answered.
Hello respectable forum veteran.
How nice of you to spew some more of your opinions on this ordeal after 6+ years of inactivity on TL and forever more concerning BW related topics, be brave and name who you're refering to with "Some of you". Be clear. Also please enlighten me on which questions have already been clearly answered and what the answer to those questions is and answered by who. While you're at it also provide a source including a quote of where you found said answers.
Either contribute something useful here or shut up, same goes for last 3 posters that haven't contributed shit and decide their opinion should be heard.
Funny how you act authoritatively and seem to think the amount of posts gives you some kind of position to dictate who should post here and what. On top of that are under the impression that your post "contributed" anything to the discussion whilst being a summary of obvious statements and ridiculous demands
Shad I like you as a player, and I respect the skill you have, but if you're just going to ignore the rules of Teamliquid then get out of here. You haven't had a single stance on this topic except shitting on the forum and the people who have concern. Then you're just echoing that we are just trying to actively hurt ZZZero. That is not what we are here for. Accountability and responsibility for giving Rapid a stage without an a denial or acknowledgement of his allegations.
On December 14 2023 23:30 Airneanach wrote: At this point ZZZero, you're in a corner. You can either choose to defend Rapid, and you'll win the support of no_brain, and his bots on polish 4chan, or you can side with the community, double down on the Rapid ban, and call out rus. The choice is yours, and I don't envy you.
On December 15 2023 01:55 FlaShFTW wrote: I also look forward to hopefully seeing these NW brigaders leave our forums. Please don't come back.
This is turning into a hate speech towards a large group of people.
thank you for the statement ZZZero. i hope that you get some rest, and then hopefully some of the followup questions others have had in this thread get resolved.
i know a few of the posters from poland and russia "started it" in the last thread with the east vs west crap. but westerners: please stop continuing it. in one of the previous threads i wrote a lengthy post talking about it, so i won't restate everything again. but, just, please stop. it is only harmful.
Please dont think that you guys are representing the community..its only a couple of you think you guys are making this community healthy. all these demands are to keep support bsl and for the long run of the tourney but i think you guys just want to hear more dramas.
Zzzero admitted they shouldnt have rapid and he is banned. Thats it.
On December 14 2023 23:30 Airneanach wrote: At this point ZZZero, you're in a corner. You can either choose to defend Rapid, and you'll win the support of no_brain, and his bots on polish 4chan, or you can side with the community, double down on the Rapid ban, and call out rus. The choice is yours, and I don't envy you.
On December 15 2023 01:55 FlaShFTW wrote: I also look forward to hopefully seeing these NW brigaders leave our forums. Please don't come back.
This is turning into a hate speech towards a large group of people.
you're right, there are racists remarks to the polish and it's individuals who are making statements. That's not right and its coming from a place of hard emotion.
With that being said these indivduals are vehemently defending Rapid's actions when it's always been us wanting rapid to defend it or acknowledge his actions. That alone is the entire basis and why what they are saying holds absolutely no weight here, and is being met with harsh criticism back that is racist.Call them out as individuals not as a race or community.
On December 15 2023 01:14 Peeano wrote: be brave and name who you're refering to with "Some of you".
I don't mean to be name calling. I was merely trying to hint at some stances shown in this thread. Hint can be taken, or missed and we have to accept both. But since you asked, you're one of "some".
On December 15 2023 01:14 Peeano wrote: Also please enlighten me on which questions have already been clearly answered and what the answer to those questions is and answered by who. While you're at it also provide a source including a quote of where you found said answers.
I'd rather ask those who demand questions to read threads carefully, than demand answers from Zero or from me like you're doing now. But since you asked nicely I'll cover one post.
On December 14 2023 17:39 fearthequeen wrote: - Who invited Rapid to the LAN in the first place?
- Who asked that Rapid join the cast on day 1?
- Do you assume responsibility for these two actions, or are those individuals held accountable as well in some way?
On December 14 2023 15:08 ZZZero.O wrote: I didn't know that Rapid will be / was invited and will come to the LAN. [...] First day of the cast I was asked to bring Rapid to help with the cast since both Artosis and me were playing/working hard [...] I agree it's my mistake.
(cited by LUCKY_NOOB in other thread) However this is in the Bombastic 25th Anniversary LAN: 09 - 12 December thread:
ORGANIZERS Rus_Brain - Offline organization and logistics ZZZero - Online organization and stream production
On December 10 2023 00:52 Rus_Brain wrote: Yet, there is more to this tale. I've encountered a person who committed an action so dumbfuck that one might deem it the epitome of folly. Lord have mercy on him; he refrained from blatantly criminal actions. But he did expend both his time and resources to attend this once per quarter century offline gathering. Interestingly, not a single soul objected to this person's appearance or questioned the event's organizers in real life.
Question 1. While it's not explicitly written who invited Rapid to LAN, we 1. know it wasn't Zero (so why demand an answer from him?) 2. know event was not invite only, both for spectators and players 3. know Rapid offered his time and resources to someone and it wasn't Zero.
Question 2. Not answered.
Question 3. Zero takes responsibility for allowing Rapid. The "help accountable" part of is or is not answered.
On December 15 2023 01:14 Peeano wrote: Either contribute something useful here or shut up, same goes for last 3 posters that haven't contributed shit and decide their opinion should be heard.
Also, don't be a backseat moderator. Our moderators handle the moderation so you don't have to.
Thanks for the statement ZZZero. Clarity on who invited Rapid would be good (sounds like it's Rus_Brain, but it'd be good to know!) because including predators in the community is something that there needs to be accountability around.
As an aside, NetWars poster isn't a race, so calling out brigading from there isn't racist.
On December 15 2023 01:14 Peeano wrote: be brave and name who you're refering to with "Some of you".
I don't mean to be name calling. I was merely trying to hint at some stances shown in this thread. Hint can be taken, or missed and we have to accept both. But since you asked, you're one of "some".
On December 15 2023 01:14 Peeano wrote: Also please enlighten me on which questions have already been clearly answered and what the answer to those questions is and answered by who. While you're at it also provide a source including a quote of where you found said answers.
I'd rather ask those who demand questions to read threads carefully, than demand answers from Zero or from me like you're doing now. But since you asked nicely I'll cover one post.
On December 14 2023 17:39 fearthequeen wrote: - Who invited Rapid to the LAN in the first place?
- Who asked that Rapid join the cast on day 1?
- Do you assume responsibility for these two actions, or are those individuals held accountable as well in some way?
On December 14 2023 15:08 ZZZero.O wrote: I didn't know that Rapid will be / was invited and will come to the LAN. [...] First day of the cast I was asked to bring Rapid to help with the cast since both Artosis and me were playing/working hard [...] I agree it's my mistake.
(cited by LUCKY_NOOB in other thread) However this is in the Bombastic 25th Anniversary LAN: 09 - 12 December thread:
ORGANIZERS Rus_Brain - Offline organization and logistics ZZZero - Online organization and stream production
On December 10 2023 00:52 Rus_Brain wrote: Yet, there is more to this tale. I've encountered a person who committed an action so dumbfuck that one might deem it the epitome of folly. Lord have mercy on him; he refrained from blatantly criminal actions. But he did expend both his time and resources to attend this once per quarter century offline gathering. Interestingly, not a single soul objected to this person's appearance or questioned the event's organizers in real life.
Question 1. While it's not explicitly written who invited Rapid to LAN, we 1. know it wasn't Zero (so why demand an answer from him?) 2. know event was not invite only, both for spectators and players 3. know Rapid offered his time and resources to someone and it wasn't Zero.
Question 2. Not answered.
Question 3. Zero takes responsibility for allowing Rapid. The "help accountable" part of is or is not answered.
On December 15 2023 01:14 Peeano wrote: Either contribute something useful here or shut up, same goes for last 3 posters that haven't contributed shit and decide their opinion should be heard.
Also, don't be a backseat moderator. Our moderators handle the moderation so you don't have to.
To summarize; from your research: Q1 is not clearly answered, as we still don't know who invited Rapid Q2 see above, who asked ZZZero to give Rapid the mic? Q3 is not answered fully either.
So I can conclude none of those questions were actually answered. If anything they were answered politically.
It's nice ZZZero owns his mistake for allowing Rapid to cast on day 1, and it's commendable he was responsible for not letting Rapid cast any more days, yet we still know little how it came to be Rapid being there and getting seat and mic at this event with BSL's sticker on it. Seeing Rapid's history... I take it I don't have to repeat why it's important to have more clarity.
I'm asking ZZZero (but not just ZZZero as you can tell from my first post in this thread) because clearly he knows who asked/told/ordered him to let Rapid cast, but he chose to not disclose that information in the OP. Why is that? Makes me wonder. Also, thank you for the Rus_Brain quote: It's safe to assume the person being talked about is Rapid. Why did not a single soul object though? I also addressed this in my first post in this thread. Was there something at jeopardy to not object or did all of them, excluding ZZZero, not give a shit? Maybe they settled down because ZZZero (already) took action on not letting Rapid cast more.
On December 15 2023 02:47 Chaosu wrote: Also, don't be a backseat moderator. Our moderators handle the moderation so you don't have to.
You're right, I'm not a mod. I'm however a staff member, and with moderators missing in action I took it on me to warn people to not add excessive clutter. I've also done this in the previous thread, albeit a bit more friendly.
On December 15 2023 04:16 Peeano wrote: I'm asking ZZZero (but not just ZZZero as you can tell from my first post in this thread)
Technically correct! Last two sentences of your first post are not targeted at Zero. However you keep demading answers from him for organizational aspects that he was not resposible for. And demand even more answers from players and attendees. And it's all in thread where Zero gave is point of view. Do you really think this is all right? I wish you could look at you staff colleague FlaShFTW. He also have unanswered questions but he put 2 + 2 together and doesn't harass Zero for no reason.
You guys need to lower your pitchforks. Take a breather until you stop seeing red, and then come back to the thread with a clear mind. ZZZero's statement just confirms everything that someone who knew him for over 10 years in our scene should've already known. Asking further questions is reasonable, but you can probably fill in the blanks yourself.
The most important things that needed addressing and were addressed by ZZZero:
He didn't know Rapid would be there and most definitely didn't invite him himself
He had a lapse of judgement due to all the stress and chaos around him and allowed Rapid to cast on day 1 of the tournament
He took full accountability for his mistake and corrected his wrong decision from day 2 onwards
Now give the man some time to actually enjoy his time on a beach in Thailand and I'm sure all relevant further questions will be answered in due time.
On December 15 2023 04:16 Peeano wrote: I'm asking ZZZero (but not just ZZZero as you can tell from my first post in this thread)
Technically correct! Last two sentences of your first post are not targeted at Zero. However you keep demading answers from him for organizational aspects that he was not resposible for. And demand even more answers from players and attendees. And it's all in thread where Zero gave is point of view. Do you really think this is all right? I wish you could look at you staff colleague FlaShFTW. He also have unanswered questions but he put 2 + 2 together and doesn't harass Zero for no reason.
I'm not harassing. I want clarity and ZZZero hinted he knows more. I'd like for ZZZero to disclose that bit, at least. If he knows more, I'd like to hear that too, of course.
My post is more about stating what we know and what we don't know. Things I deem important to get clarity on.
I'm not demanding ZZZero to be(come) a detective and give me all the answers. I will say it again in case you missed it. I want clarity. Preferably Rus_Brain will provide clarity, but because of his recent posts (and silence since) it doesn't seem like he cares enough to give that, I ask ZZZero, attendees, including Rapid himself to provide us with more info.
Trying to put my colleague FlaShFTW on your side, and thus against me is just shameful.
On December 15 2023 01:04 ShadPro wrote: They would have acted differently, stood their ground, stopped the tournament, abandoned management, kicked Rapid and Sharp out all in the name of integrity.
Rapid - 100%, no questions asked. Sharp - He can stay, I don't believe in guilt by association, doubt he even knows what Rapid had done and I'd welcome the opportunity to inform him. Everyone should have the chance to renounce their friendship when they find out their friend is actually a piece of shit.
Just to give you a straight answer, even though your conduct does not warrant it.
That brings me to the topic of ZZZero's statement. I can understand trying to provide context for his mistake, such as his previous relationship with Rapid, Rapid's previous contributions to BSL, etc. I won't read too much into it, though it would be easy to view that as implicit support for Rapid in a "b-b-but he's really an alright guy!" type of way. I can also empathize with the chaos that comes from hosting an event in a venue in a country where they mostly do not speak your native language, the venue owners may not speak your native language or even your mutually common language well, where you have to set up a stream and the tournament itself in an unfamiliar venue on unfamiliar machines, etc. because that is what I did. I can also empathize with softening your resolve on a decision you made because you know the fallout of going against the grain (sponsor) can cost your tournament, players, and scene in terms of money, support, etc. because again, I did.
However, a 27-year-old person who sends unsolicited dickpics to community members over the internet is a piece of shit, through and through. A person who has done nothing to address the issue, make amends, or apologize in the years since is an even bigger piece of shit. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. There are simply lines which cannot be crossed and conduct which cannot be tolerated. This is the case here.
So, I find the whole "I was so busy and it was such a surprise and he did so much for BSL before so I just pulled him out a chair and microphone" defense to be a really weak one. However, given that ZZZero has acknowledged that error, apologized, and acted to correct it, I am more than willing to forgive him. Not trying to sound magnanimous here, like my forgiveness means anything to anyone, just stating my opinion.
I won't pretend to be some paragon of morality. I too did things which have been damaging to the foreign StarCraft community. No one is perfect, we all make mistakes and bad decisions. It is the nature of those mistakes, how we handle their consequences, how we own up to them, how we make amends, and how we grow to not repeat those mistakes that demonstrates an evolution in our character. Rapid never did any of that, he just tried to sneak/bribe his way back into the community and act as if nothing happened. Like the disgusting snake that he is.
That is why again I say, fuck Rapid and anyone who supports, defends, or enables him. And that is why I think there is so much vitriol toward the army of Polish posters acting like buffoons here, because they seem eager to overlook a grown man sending photos of his genitalia to underage women over the internet - not that the recipient's gender matters here. Imagine it is your daughter on the receiving end and think about how you - and she - would feel. Fuck you all too.
It is just INCREDIBLE to see how most of the attention keeps being centered on Rapid, who almost certainly we won't see in any form anymore - and is therefore irrelevant, or on Zzzero, who it seems is not the main cause for what happened, and did nonetheless take the full blame.
I meannnnnnnnnnnn........ what are u all afraid off that you would not challenge the actual person at fault???????!?!??! You must have surely noticed the contributions of crvt in the last few BSLs, the combined worth of which no doubt rivals what's about to be put at risk here?!?!
The very fact that he pretty much explicitly stated this is all his doing, and then let Zzzero take the blame SHOULD BE ON ITS OWN A SUFFICIENT REASON FOR YOU TO REFOCUS ON THE REAL ISSUE HERE!!!!!
should I spell it out?????? ZZZERO IS ESSENTIALLY IN NO POSITION TO CHALLNGE RUSBRAIN. THIS COMMUNITY HAS TO DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
On December 15 2023 06:54 nikolaus8844 wrote: It is just INCREDIBLE to see how most of the attention keeps being centered on Rapid, who almost certainly we won't see in any form anymore - and is therefore irrelevant, or on Zzzero, who it seems is not the main cause for what happened, and did nonetheless take the full blame.
I meannnnnnnnnnnn........ what are u all afraid off that you would not challenge the actual person at fault???????!?!??! You must have surely noticed the contributions of crvt in the last few BSLs, the combined worth of which no doubt rivals what's about to be put at risk here?!?!
The very fact that he pretty much explicitly stated this is all his doing, and then let Zzzero take the blame SHOULD BE ON ITS OWN A SUFFICIENT REASON FOR YOU TO REFOCUS ON THE REAL ISSUE HERE!!!!!
should I spell it out?????? ZZZERO IS ESSENTIALLY IN NO POSITION TO CHALLNGE RUSBRAIN. THIS COMMUNITY HAS TO DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
We wouldn't be having this conversation if Rapid wasn't there. We wouldn't be worried about rapid if he didn't disappear for 3 years. Finally we wouldn't be having this discussion at all if there were no allegations against rapid, or rapid responded to his allegations in any shape or form. So it has everything to do with rapid and the relationship he has with this community, and the previous communities.
Besides I already told Rus_Brain to fuck off in the other thread.
Honestly im not sure what do you guys want to hear from ZZZero. Rus Brain team was trying to bring progamers for this 25 anniversary blablabla. They even posted in Jaedong afreeca wall. That didnt work out. Few years ago when Brain made the 20 years anniversary he actually got Shine Sharp and Miso thanks to rapid relationship. Not only that but Rapid was baby sitting those koreans all trip long. Helping them with foods hotels etc etc. I imagine Brain (based in past events ) didnt expect his 25 anniversary Lan to gain this much traction. In fact if you think about it every event the guy makes is all about drama and not exactly about tournament results or the games that happened. Anyway Brain really wanted to bring a progamer to this shit and i assume his last chance was to get in touch with rapid to bring Sharp. I dont even think rapid wanted all this attention since the mf was a ghost till now. He proly went there cuz Brain paid for his flight and maybe some interpreter duties and maybe just got way to comfortable since not one said shit.( Afterall all those guys are nerds that in that moment are not going to do anything about it. ) And smh got the audacity of getting in the BSL stream. The rest is history.
ZZZero is in all this trouble cuz Rus Brain.
Rus Brain instead of coming here and say my fault. It was me the one and zzzero didnt know shit.
Or my bad. I invited Sharp but he actually bringed up Rapid LOL . How im suposed to tell this guy anything if i dont speak korean.
ZZZero explained the situation and apologized. And im pretty sure he is not happy with the situation but it is what it is.
On December 15 2023 00:02 Chaosu wrote: Some of you are unreasonably entitled demanding answers to your questions. Especially those questions which are already answered.
Hello respectable forum veteran.
How nice of you to spew some more of your opinions on this ordeal after 6+ years of inactivity on TL and forever more concerning BW related topics, be brave and name who you're refering to with "Some of you". Be clear. Also please enlighten me on which questions have already been clearly answered and what the answer to those questions is and answered by who. While you're at it also provide a source including a quote of where you found said answers.
Either contribute something useful here or shut up, same goes for last 3 posters that haven't contributed shit and decide their opinion should be heard.
Funny how you act authoritatively and seem to think the amount of posts gives you some kind of position to dictate who should post here and what. On top of that are under the impression that your post "contributed" anything to the discussion whilst being a summary of obvious statements and ridiculous demands
Shad I like you as a player, and I respect the skill you have, but if you're just going to ignore the rules of Teamliquid then get out of here. You haven't had a single stance on this topic except shitting on the forum and the people who have concern. Then you're just echoing that we are just trying to actively hurt ZZZero. That is not what we are here for. Accountability and responsibility for giving Rapid a stage without an a denial or acknowledgement of his allegations.
Thanks, I like you too <3
I really don't know which rules I am breaking here and why am I required to have a stance. Is there a rule that requires me to either condemn someone or accept? Or can I just raise questions and cast doubt over things that some take for granted? I agree with some of the statements made here, but I don't with some either. For this I have already been called a war-supportint Polish nationalist, coming from an incel cesspit, advocate of pedophilia. Maybe you are right, I should be out
TBH, ZZZero knows he fucked up and he posted an explanation. It's reasonable and for me it's done. The two things that glaringly disappoints me more than anything from reading this whole thing though is:
1. The guy whom funds most of the foreign SC tournaments seems toxic AF (Rus_Brain).
2. Almost every top foreigner just disappears and can't be found when there's any critique against ZZZero, Rus_Brain, or others. Maybe it's because they are friends with Rus_Brain, ZZZero, Rapid, etc. (I've had good experiences with ZZZero for example) or they don't want to say anything that would get them kicked off the "in-list" and prevent them from being invited to things, or whatever. Or maybe they just don't care. Who knows. I respect Eon and the few others whom speak up and say it like they see it though because most foreigners or notable figures in the foreign scene just disappear. There's honestly very few strong voices in the foreign community.
G5 maybe you're right about top foreigners disappearing, but please give everyone on LAN benefit of doubt for a week. Players went to LAN in holiday destination, some with their partners (seen in streams) and they are enjoying their holidays. I'm sure we all agree that these few days in sun, on holidays, when it's winter in your home country, are time when you'd rather stay offline and enjoy peace rather than drama.
As long time BWCL Member, Organisator and Clan leader I feel like I should comment too.
Organizing an event and making everything 100% perfect is hardly impossible. It was truly a mistake to give him the chance to cast. ZZZero did give him a chance only on day 1 for like 4h. That's probably also when everything was still very disorganized and he might have been like: "Well better one Rapid as cast as noone". Still not a great idea but then again. We all make mistakes and it is Rapid who did all these things and not ZZZero who did bad.
Rapid should be ashamed of his actions (if all true) at least explain himself which he never did and he should not attend any events (which he didn't until now). + it seems like ZZZero didn't even invite him to this one.
Still BSL is one of the only big events outside Korea and Zero did sooooo much for this community as well as Rus_Brain and other people in the orga team. I have never seen any big flaws from their side so I will 100% still continue watching the events as long as he is not actively promoting Rapid or excusing the things he has done.
Rapid is not BSL, he was kicked from regular BSL casts immediately around 3 years ago. He has no real support from BSL so BSL is not Rapid.
It's good that people raised their concerns so that the community sees that we do not tolerate such a behavior as seemingly shown by Rapid, but then again there's a big difference between his action and eveything BSL does or stands for.
On December 15 2023 08:54 Chaosu wrote: G5 maybe you're right about top foreigners disappearing, but please give everyone on LAN benefit of doubt for a week. Players went to LAN in holiday destination, some with their partners (seen in streams) and they are enjoying their holidays. I'm sure we all agree that these few days in sun, on holidays, when it's winter in your home country, are time when you'd rather stay offline and enjoy peace rather than drama.
Oh I 100% agree with that. It's also hard to be harsh and direct to someone when you're looking at them face to face and they're being nothing but nice to you. My statement wasn't just about this event. Just something as a whole that I recognize.
On December 15 2023 09:23 ESC.BlAckSuN wrote: As long time BWCL Member, Organisator and Clan leader I feel like I should comment too.
Organizing an event and making everything 100% perfect is hardly impossible. It was truly a mistake to give him the chance to cast. ZZZero did give him a chance only on day 1 for like 4h. That's probably also when everything was still very disorganized and he might have been like: "Well better one Rapid as cast as noone". Still not a great idea but then again. We all make mistakes and it is Rapid who did all these things and not ZZZero who did bad.
Rapid should be ashamed of his actions (if all true) at least explain himself which he never did and he should not attend any events (which he didn't until now). + it seems like ZZZero didn't even invite him to this one.
Still BSL is one of the only big events outside Korea and Zero did sooooo much for this community as well as Rus_Brain and other people in the orga team. I have never seen any big flaws from their side so I will 100% still continue watching the events as long as he is not actively promoting Rapid or excusing the things he has done.
Rapid is not BSL, he was kicked from regular BSL casts immediately around 3 years ago. He has no real support from BSL so BSL is not Rapid.
It's good that people raised their concerns so that the community sees that we do not tolerate such a behavior as seemingly shown by Rapid, but then again there's a big difference between his action and eveything BSL does or stands for.
I watched and here's a pretty quick summary of what Bonyth said: He said that no one knew that Rapid was coming, and he doesn't think that ZZZero knew about Rapid. He agreed with the decision to remove Rapid.
He also discussed what the proper punishment was for Rapid, and also thinks that Rapid should give some form of apology or statement.
On December 15 2023 08:37 G5 wrote: 2. Almost every top foreigner just disappears and can't be found when there's any critique against ZZZero, Rus_Brain, or others. Maybe it's because they are friends with Rus_Brain, ZZZero, Rapid, etc. (I've had good experiences with ZZZero for example) or they don't want to say anything that would get them kicked off the "in-list" and prevent them from being invited to things, or whatever. Or maybe they just don't care. Who knows. I respect Eon and the few others whom speak up and say it like they see it though because most foreigners or notable figures in the foreign scene just disappear. There's honestly very few strong voices in the foreign community.
I think this is what I'm worried about. Yes, Rus_Brain is a big player in terms of trying to make events and fund them. However, that also gives him lots of power over the scene in terms of people not wanting to speak up against him if we disagree with him. Case in point, in his explanation in the original thread regarding his decision to get Rapid, he spoke about how he's the one organizing and working hard. And that's great. But that should not mean that you are insulated from criticism, or that we cannot challenge your decision making, such as inviting Rapid.
It also seems, that based on the interactions with Rus_Brain in the threads, that he's a bit of an asshole and refuses to take responsibility. Is this the kind of person we want effectively being the main sponsor of the foreign scene? Is it worth the juice? Idk, it's a tough question and certainly the top foreigners who profit from these events have an incentive to keep him around. It's definitely a very difficult position to be in.
Have your sexual abuser casters. I'm tired of looking at this thread and watching people be absolutely racist, and I'm tired of watching people defend the behavior of sexual abusers.
Kinda got fucked by Rus_Brain. Knowingly inviting a player with an indefinite ban from BSL events to an event while knowingly getting you to host it under the BSL umbrella. Bad times.
It seems some misjudgements might have been made, but nobody is in support of sexual abuse. WCG was not a flawless tournament free from controversies either, regardless of years of learnings, giant budgets and support.
I think it would be good for the Tournament Organizers committee to issue a closing statement as a follow-up on this therad.
The good intentions are appreciated by everyone, but they do not exempt one from adhering to poroper etiquette & accountability. Especially since this escalated the situation disproportionately, started a witch hunt on ZZZero and caused disputes within the community. It would only be appropriate, put some closure to it & at the least prevent any further undesired communication from continuing on and being fragmented.
On December 16 2023 02:55 Smorrie wrote: It seems some misjudgements might have been made, but nobody is in support of sexual abuse. WCG was not a flawless tournament free from controversies either, regardless of years of learnings, giant budgets and support.
I think it would be good for the Tournament Organizers committee to issue a closing statement as a follow-up on this therad.
The good intentions are appreciated by everyone, but they do not exempt one from adhering to poroper etiquette & accountability. Especially since this escalated the situation disproportionately, started a witch hunt on ZZZero and caused disputes within the community. It would only be appropriate, put some closure to it & at the least prevent any further undesired communication from continuing on and being fragmented.
Yes, we are working on one, because of the amount of people who signed the statement it is taking some time as you can imagine so it can be satisfactory to every one. All of your points are well made and well taken
Edit: here it is, I also edited our OP in the other thread to have it all self contained:
Here is a quick summary of the facts as they appear right now:
1. Zzzero was unaware of Rapid's invitation to the event. 2. Zzzero was not the person who invited Rapid. At present we do not know who that person was. 3. Zzzero acknowledges that allowing Rapid to cast during day one of the event was a mistake. In retrospect, he regrets his decision and owns up to that mistake. He also pointed out that the situation during day one was rather chaotic and that, along other reasons, led to eventually letting Rapid cast for a limited time. 4.Allowing Rapid to cast was in no way a premature and unannounced lift of his **existing** BSL ban. It was a rushed ill-advised decision that Zzzero feels sorry about.
We thank Zzzero for addressing this issue in a timely manner.
We all greatly appreciate ZZZero's work and BSL. While we regret what happened, we are satisfied with the explanation and would like nothing more than to move past this. ```
I'm really glad you said something ZZZero, but one thing that worries me is this:
I've talked with Rapid about it and told him that I hope that he will make some kind of a statement where he explains all this and shows his side of the story, at the same time he knows that I won't bring him back to the casts, at least not until he will clarify the situation, adress the allegations, apologize to some people and resolve this matter.
The things he did, some of them are literally criminal. There is no "resolving this matter". He can't take back what he did, nor can he attempt to apologise over 6 years later in some cases, he's clearly shown zero remorse throughout the entire thing and the number of people he's hurt outnumber the number of years he's tried to hide himself away from criticism.
The least he can do is apologise; although even apologising doesn't change what he's done and I genuinely don't think it's a good idea to have someone like that anywhere near our scene. I know he was your friend as he was mine, he was at your wedding and he stayed at my house and I showed him around London with Cadenzie. We were his second chance. He did the same thing during his League days, never mentioned any of that to anyone and has shown himself to be a pathalogical liar. I don't understand how anyone could trust him after what he's done, let alone let him be in the public eye.
Rapid if you're reading this - I was genuinely hoping to never see or hear from you again. You can't take back what you did even if you do apologise - which you've somehow managed to never attempt to do in at least the last 3 years plus however many years you were doing what you were doing in the League scene. You were kicked out of there and wormed your way into ours - hiding everything that came before. You're never going to face any kind of justice for what you did, but the least you can do is disappear and go work a normal job and stay the hell away from all of us. You are a despicable human being and I hope you do at least one good thing in your life by finding a place where you'll no longer hurt anyone else and rot in it.
One issue with the question of how long is an appropriate punishment is that we have yet to even start the clock on a punishment because we’re still in limbo because at no point has he addressed any of the accusations against him or made any kind of restitution to the people he harmed. Rapid basically went on the run on the day the accusations were made and hasn’t looked back since. In 2020 ZZZero suspended him until further notice and that suspension is still in effect because Rapid ghosted the community.
You don’t get to claim that the time you spent on the run from punishment counts against whatever punishment you’re subsequently claiming. The clock on any ban has yet to be started and won’t start until Rapid actually takes responsibility for addressing this issue.
Just wondering, has BSL looked into other casters? I'm surprised that someone (not ZZZero) needed to reach out to him in the first place; I feel like there are a lot of top notch casters out there.
Rapid's silence has spoken volumes. He tacitly admitted to everything. I assumed he tacitly acknowledged he shouldn't be anywhere around the scene, but I guess he's an even worse person than I thought. If he didn't do the things he was accused of he would have said something and counted on the truth to set him free eventually. The stuff he did is unforgivable. Him trying to stroll back into casting like nothing happened is a mind-boggling display of arrogance and a show of contempt for the community. The very least he could have done is disappear. Hopefully now that he's seen he's so hated that mere association with Rapid is (rightfully) a serious issue for others in the community he'll go away forever.
I've talked with Rapid about it and told him that I hope that he will make some kind of a statement where he explains all this and shows his side of the story, at the same time he knows that I won't bring him back to the casts, at least not until he will clarify the situation, adress the allegations, apologize to some people and resolve this matter. You need to know that banning Rapid was one of the hardest things I've done during all those years of working on StarCraft. I know him for a long time, as he was casting BSL for multiple seasons and I wish him all the best, at the same time he didn't do anything to address any of the allegations towards him. Rapid for now will be banned from casting indefinitely. .
You probably won't ever read this, but I think you need to take a long hard look at this part of your statement, ZZZero. It's incredibly common for people who are friends with abusers/sexual predators to excuse their actions to themselves because "you've known them a long time" or "they've always been a good friend to you". The problem here is that you're conflating your good experiences as someone who isn't at all a subject of their predation with other peoples' very real trauma. Yeah, he's been cool to you: you're not an underage girl he's trying to sleep with. This is enabling behavior, and is what allows predators to get away with sexual violence all the time, and if you allow yourself to engage in it use it to shield and empower the aggressor, you're bearing some burden of the responsibility for their sexual violence. I want to repeat that: you are choosing to bear some of the responsibility of his actions with this choice because you are shielding him and giving him more of a forum to hurt people, whether through his actions or simply his continued presence.
The fact that you're already rationalizing a path to allowing him to cast again (apologizing to "some" people? as if that somehow resolves the matter?) shows that you've already, on some level, convinced yourself to do this. You are trying to find an excuse to put your friendship ahead of the well-being of the many women he has sexually harassed, minors he has groomed or attempted to groom, and the Brood War community at large.
This is your chance to re-evaluate and pick the better path. You have every right to privately maintain your friendship with Rapid and encourage him to grow into a better person. I personally hope he does. But you sure as hell should keep that personal decision away from the Brood War scene and the many people his presence will continue to hurt, if you value the work you've done there even the slightest.
On December 17 2023 17:00 Timebon3s wrote: That’s taking it way to far.
Putting someone in a position of prominance/power in front of a community that person has actively preyed upon is definitely choosing to take on some of the responsibility for that person's actions and the harm/trauma they cause. That's how being in a position of responsibility (which ZZZero is) works. It's no different than when the high-ups at a company shield a sexually-harassing manager that they like - the company/execs bear responsibility for the actions they knowingly cover up/protect.
Again, there's a huge difference between choosing to support someone in your private life, which isn't something I'd ever criticise like this, and using your public forum to prop that person at the expense of people they've hurt. You can support someone and encourage them to grow and learn and improve without giving them the mic again and forcing other people to deal with it who haven't consented to forgive and forget.
On December 17 2023 17:00 Timebon3s wrote: That’s taking it way to far.
Putting someone in a position of prominance/power in front of a community that person has actively preyed upon is definitely choosing to take on some of the responsibility for that person's actions and the harm/trauma they cause. That's how being in a position of responsibility (which ZZZero is) works. It's no different than when the high-ups at a company shield a sexually-harassing manager that they like - the company/execs bear responsibility for the actions they knowingly cover up/protect.
Again, there's a huge difference between choosing to support someone in your private life, which isn't something I'd ever criticise like this, and using your public forum to prop that person at the expense of people they've hurt. You can support someone and encourage them to grow and learn and improve without giving them the mic again and forcing other people to deal with it who haven't consented to forgive and forget.
Remember, ZZZero banned him from BSL stuff originally and ZZZero's comment is behind 'confess, clarify, address, resolve, apologize'. It's not like he's saying "Hey bro just apologize and you're good I'll let you cast again", he's saying "I won't let Rapid cast again for BSL stuff until/unless there's a resolution to this matter."
Having a strong stance against your friends is fucking hard, and from the little I can see it seems like ZZZero is doing that. I understand your position and largely agree with it, but I disagree with your read on ZZZero's messaging. He certainly isn't freely forgiving anyone and welcoming them back into a public space without anyone else's consent.
I'm not claiming he's freely forgiving anyone, but I am pointing out that he is approaching this from the wrong angle of trying to lay the path for Rapid to get back on the mic (which, to be frank, he already allowed him to do showing he's not really sticking to his guns here). He's creating a series of checkboxes that will let him potentially rationalize this in the future rather than keeping it a matter between him and his friend while allowing the community to move on and heal.
There is absolutely no value to the community in getting Rapid back in a caster position at this point, and a great deal of harm. ZZZero doesn't get to decide for Rapid's victims, or all the people who would be hurt/upset by his presence in a community event, when it's time to forgive and forget. I'm 100% all for personal forgiveness and I agree having a stance against your friends can be the hardest thing in the world and I don't fault ZZZero at all for wanting to maintain a friendship and help his friend crawl out of a hole. Floating a bunch of "what ifs" that imply he'd invite him back to cast BSLs in the future if Rapid apologized to some people is a completely different story and I'm asking him to take a long hard look at this logic.
I'm not defending Rapid, as I'm completely unaware of what happened beyond what I've read online. However, I've seen some people suggest that if he were innocent (which, again, I have no idea about and am not commenting on), he would come forward and offer a statement. I believe this is not entirely accurate.
I myself have been a victim of some disturbing incidents between 2010 and 2013 and was wrongfully accused by some members of this community. I never came forward, not because I was guilty, but simply because I wanted to put that chapter behind me, and I didn't feel the need for the world to know what happened. I felt like my inner circle knew the truth and that was more than enough for me.
Looking back, I realize I should have spoken up and defended myself, as it not only affected my reputation but also took a toll on my mental health. However, when things happen, not everyone reacts the same way.
Again, I'm not defending Rapid in any way, shape, or form. Never spoke, or met the guy (Unless it's Get.Rapid from back in the day? If anyone know let me know).
I'm just pointing out that assuming an innocent person would '100% come forward' is not accurate. Making such a general statement based on how one might react and assuming everyone would respond the same way can be misleading and even dangerous
I'm not defending Rapid, as I'm completely unaware of what happened beyond what I've read online. However, I've seen some people suggest that if he were innocent (which, again, I have no idea about and am not commenting on), he would come forward and offer a statement. I believe this is not entirely accurate.
I myself have been a victim of some disturbing incidents between 2010 and 2013 and was wrongfully accused by some members of this community. I never came forward, not because I was guilty, but simply because I wanted to put that chapter behind me, and I didn't feel the need for the world to know what happened. I felt like my inner circle knew the truth and that was more than enough for me.
Looking back, I realize I should have spoken up and defended myself, as it not only affected my reputation but also took a toll on my mental health. However, when things happen, not everyone reacts the same way.
Again, I'm not defending Rapid in any way, shape, or form. Never spoke, or met the guy (Unless it's Get.Rapid from back in the day? If anyone know let me know).
I'm just pointing out that assuming an innocent person would '100% come forward' is not accurate. Making such a general statement based on how one might react and assuming everyone would respond the same way can be misleading and even dangerous
Of course false accusations are HORRIFIC! As well as true things that happen and people never speak up. Of course it's hard to speak up, but if you don't it just helps the abuser (whoever they may be).
I think we've gone over this in the threads a few times, but the point is if you are going to be in the public eye the issue has to be addressed at the very least. I don't think that's too much to ask for.
The danger goes both ways btw. Even now without any public statement from the guy we have a person on NetWars website who has this take on it for example:
#96] MistrZZZ #89 good. Viewers watch because they want good entertainment, not because the caster is a good person outside of the community. I personally don't give two fucks if someone killed another person as long as that person will not hurt me. If he's doing a good job then let him do it. Fuck 'murrican retarded culture full of pussies and morons.
I'm glad they typed it in English so I don't have to use translate like the other posts (and potentially get something wrong or lost in translation):
I'm not defending Rapid, as I'm completely unaware of what happened beyond what I've read online. However, I've seen some people suggest that if he were innocent (which, again, I have no idea about and am not commenting on), he would come forward and offer a statement. I believe this is not entirely accurate.
I myself have been a victim of some disturbing incidents between 2010 and 2013 and was wrongfully accused by some members of this community. I never came forward, not because I was guilty, but simply because I wanted to put that chapter behind me, and I didn't feel the need for the world to know what happened. I felt like my inner circle knew the truth and that was more than enough for me.
Looking back, I realize I should have spoken up and defended myself, as it not only affected my reputation but also took a toll on my mental health. However, when things happen, not everyone reacts the same way.
Again, I'm not defending Rapid in any way, shape, or form. Never spoke, or met the guy (Unless it's Get.Rapid from back in the day? If anyone know let me know).
I'm just pointing out that assuming an innocent person would '100% come forward' is not accurate. Making such a general statement based on how one might react and assuming everyone would respond the same way can be misleading and even dangerous
Of course false accusations are HORRIFIC! As well as true things that happen and people never speak up. Of course it's hard to speak up, but if you don't it just helps the abuser (whoever they may be).
I think we've gone over this in the threads a few times, but the point is if you are going to be in the public eye the issue has to be addressed at the very least. I don't think that's too much to ask for.
The danger goes both ways btw. Even now without any public statement from the guy we have a person on NetWars website who has this take on it for example:
#96] MistrZZZ #89 good. Viewers watch because they want good entertainment, not because the caster is a good person outside of the community. I personally don't give two fucks if someone killed another person as long as that person will not hurt me. If he's doing a good job then let him do it. Fuck 'murrican retarded culture full of pussies and morons.
I'm glad they typed it in English so I don't have to use translate like the other posts (and potentially get something wrong or lost in translation):
I didn't only mean false accusation. But I mean falsely accusing someone because of a non-answer (again -- not defending Rapid, I know nothing about this situation).
But it happened to me and it happened to me VERY hard. And reading this post, I also feel like some people are going at ZZZero for the same reason for unjustified reasons. Some people have been hard on him and I think he didn't deserved it at all.
MistrZZZ isn't necessarily the best person you want to quote or take seriously tbh. Dude been a clown for a very long time now. Loud mouths are always gonna be there (MistrZZZ is the perfect proof of that). Very easy to deal with that especially when you see him IRL. But when it come to serious accusations, we need to be more careful and let the pieces come together.
All I'm saying is, don't just assume because someone doesn't provide an immediate statement mean the person is guilty.
I love this community and been a part of it since 2000. Matter of fact, RIP to Geoff (iNcontroL) I remember paying him 8$ an hour to coach me on the WEST server back in 2002. I love nothing more than this community. But man we have to be careful with accusations.
I went quiet after 2011 because of some deep things that happened to me living with some starcraft players that almost costed the life of someone and I've chosen at that time to shut my mouth. That doesn't mean nothing happened to me (which is why in that case I'm actually really happy the victims are speaking out and I hope they keep doing so (in Rapid case)).
As for Rapid, if you really did that then the best thing you can do is just come forward. Apologize, be a man about it and move on. It will be better for both you and the people you hurted. Some people will forgive you, some people won't but at least you will have the peace of mind and I'm sure it will help some of your allegedly victims.
I ain't got no dogs in this fight -- I just want people to know that you have to be careful when throwing accusations. Some people stay quiet and don't pursue because they are actually scared. It took me a long long time to accept what happened to me and I'm sure it's the same for many people.
Thanks, I love u too mr nobody. Too bad you have hard times reading, so u missed a bunch of comments in which I straighten up that exact comment which I actually disagree with. Doesn't matter, you better quote it, print it and then for the next 20 years wait for a proper situation to use it against me, because that's what your life is all about.
The fact that you judge a person's character based on a few pictures also reflects the mindset of an average cancel culture follower. I’m not interested in engaging in a conversation with you or others who share similar iq and lack of understanding of the world as a whole. You are free to ban me on the forum for not subscribing to your illogical and inconsistent worldview, which I and many other intelligent people disagree with. Better get rid of any signs of intelligence, otherwise someone may eventually point out that banning Rapid from casting will not change his fetish and will have exactly 0 effect on that particular part of his life. Only people who will lose are those who enjoyed his entertaining casts and the whole starcraft community which has very limited casters who are at his level.
On December 21 2023 07:12 sexyMIStrZZZ wrote: Thanks, I love u too mr nobody. Too bad you have hard times reading, so u missed a bunch of comments in which I straighten up that exact comment which I actually disagree with. Doesn't matter, you better quote it, print it and then for the next 20 years wait for a proper situation to use it against me, because that's what your life is all about.
The fact that you judge a person's character based on a few pictures also reflects the mindset of an average cancel culture follower. I’m not interested in engaging in a conversation with you or others who share similar iq and lack of understanding of the world as a whole. You are free to ban me on the forum for not subscribing to your illogical and inconsistent worldview, which I and many other intelligent people disagree with. Better get rid of any signs of intelligence, otherwise someone may eventually point out that banning Rapid from casting will not change his fetish and will have exactly 0 effect on that particular part of his life. Only people who will lose are those who enjoyed his entertaining casts and the whole starcraft community which has very limited casters who are at his level.
User was temp banned for this post.
Do you even read before you write you sausage?
You look like a celery out there. I sent you a DM and we can handle it right now. Go read your DM and stop with the typing you twat.
I don't care that much what RAPiD did, it's not like he's convicted rapist or something. Everything else he did via messenging is his private life and it's none of our business. The only thing I hate about him that he vanished like coward and that's why he deserves banishment.
It seems that many people are following this case but only some people actually commented. So I made an anonymous poll regarding the future of Rapid's casting career. Cast your vote if you have a say on the matter.
Im shocked by the number of posters who took sides and seem deeply offended by events that didn't even involve them.
There was a time long ago when personal and private lives were separate. If Rapid is Hilter 2.0, did anyone press charges? Surely if he is accused of serious criminal behaviour and wrongdoing, he should have the right to due process and if found guilty, be given an opportunity to pay his debts and move on with his life? Or did everyone just jump on the witch-hunt bandwagon and smear his name into oblivion?
Talk about a lynch mob...it was 3 years ago...what the hell do you want? Can you imagine the shame he must be dealing with all that time?
I don't know rapid, I never met rapid, I never had anything to do with rapid, but I feel quite comfortable passing judgment on a complex situation by saying he's clearly not like the rest of us infallible humans and should be sent to the gulag with Jeffrey Weinstein.
"Ahh, there's no justice like angry mob Justice."-- Principal Seymour Skinner
It's threads like these that make it plainly obvious is why FlaSh is never coming back.
person above misses the point that Rapid abused his position to sexually harass people. The things he did are directly connected to the position he had and are not exactly "private matters". Tankgirl's logic is flawed to begin with. If someone abuses their position you take away their position and dont give that position back to them. You also don't give a serial offender access to new victims. Up until Rapid proves he wont offend again, you keep him away. He is not some monster, he is just a human. But it is most responsible for everyone to keep him away.
Im shocked by the number of posters who took sides and seem deeply offended by events that didn't even involve them.
There was a time long ago when personal and private lives were separate. If Rapid is Hilter 2.0, did anyone press charges? Surely if he is accused of serious criminal behaviour and wrongdoing, he should have the right to due process and if found guilty, be given an opportunity to pay his debts and move on with his life? Or did everyone just jump on the witch-hunt bandwagon and smear his name into oblivion?
Talk about a lynch mob...it was 3 years ago...what the hell do you want? Can you imagine the shame he must be dealing with all that time?
I don't know rapid, I never met rapid, I never had anything to do with rapid, but I feel quite comfortable passing judgment on a complex situation by saying he's clearly not like the rest of us infallible humans and should be sent to the gulag with Jeffrey Weinstein.
"Ahh, there's no justice like angry mob Justice."-- Principal Seymour Skinner
It's threads like these that make it plainly obvious is why FlaSh is never coming back.
On January 07 2024 21:23 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: person above misses the point that Rapid abused his position to sexually harass people. The things he did are directly connected to the position he had and are not exactly "private matters". Tankgirl's logic is flawed to begin with. If someone abuses their position you take away their position and dont give that position back to them. You also don't give a serial offender access to new victims. Up until Rapid proves he wont offend again, you keep him away. He is not some monster, he is just a human. But it is most responsible for everyone to keep him away.
Best post ITT and the other locked thread, everything else is just blabla.
On January 07 2024 21:23 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: person above misses the point that Rapid abused his position to sexually harass people. The things he did are directly connected to the position he had and are not exactly "private matters". Tankgirl's logic is flawed to begin with. If someone abuses their position you take away their position and dont give that position back to them. You also don't give a serial offender access to new victims. Up until Rapid proves he wont offend again, you keep him away. He is not some monster, he is just a human. But it is most responsible for everyone to keep him away.
Yes this 100%, as someone who has long-term volunteered at a big convention over here that takes safeguarding VERY seriously. There would be a marked difference in reaction and potential suitability to continue in such a role if I’d merely had some hypothetical private embarrassment, versus me actively pursuing attendees at events.
Now, my pull is a lesser one I’d imagine as an amateur SC2 caster at a general event than someone like Rapid who was in industry, and his would be lesser again than an Artosis type.
But part of a role where you have any kind of prestige or rep comes with a responsibility not to leverage admiration in ways that aren’t ethical. And this doesn’t just cover sexual impropriety of course, see the Flash et al crypto controversy for something in another domain.
remembering how day[9] said in a video "i hope savior dies"
and then i compare rapid and savior's situations and how the community at large reacted, and so on.
it says a lot about people's priorities and what they find valuable. i don't mean to minimize savior's behavior, i think savior *should* be banned for life. but then you have this situation which is definitely worse by any reasonable metric.
Im shocked by the number of posters who took sides and seem deeply offended by events that didn't even involve them.
There was a time long ago when personal and private lives were separate. If Rapid is Hilter 2.0, did anyone press charges? Surely if he is accused of serious criminal behaviour and wrongdoing, he should have the right to due process and if found guilty, be given an opportunity to pay his debts and move on with his life? Or did everyone just jump on the witch-hunt bandwagon and smear his name into oblivion?
Talk about a lynch mob...it was 3 years ago...what the hell do you want? Can you imagine the shame he must be dealing with all that time?
I don't know rapid, I never met rapid, I never had anything to do with rapid, but I feel quite comfortable passing judgment on a complex situation by saying he's clearly not like the rest of us infallible humans and should be sent to the gulag with Jeffrey Weinstein.
"Ahh, there's no justice like angry mob Justice."-- Principal Seymour Skinner
It's threads like these that make it plainly obvious is why FlaSh is never coming back.
Seems we've reached the "GowDin's lOw" point in this thread ^_._^
P.S. Flash has issued an apology. Rapid didn't seem ashamed to me in all those LAN photos.
Yes people make references to popular culture and historical figures to make points.
I also references Jeffrey Weinstein.
I will now only meta-reference GowDin's law in future. Thank you for enlightening me in me on the many interesting ways of the internet. I don't live here, I just stop by once every few months.
On January 08 2024 02:12 quaristice wrote: remembering how day[9] said in a video "i hope savior dies"
and then i compare rapid and savior's situations and how the community at large reacted, and so on.
it says a lot about people's priorities and what they find valuable. i don't mean to minimize savior's behavior, i think savior *should* be banned for life. but then you have this situation which is definitely worse by any reasonable metric.
Funny you saying that. What Savior did was ten times worse than what Rapid is accused of. Savior single-handedly destroyed BW scene. If Rapid did what he did at that era no one would give a flying shit about it. Times change.
On January 08 2024 02:12 quaristice wrote: remembering how day[9] said in a video "i hope savior dies"
and then i compare rapid and savior's situations and how the community at large reacted, and so on.
it says a lot about people's priorities and what they find valuable. i don't mean to minimize savior's behavior, i think savior *should* be banned for life. but then you have this situation which is definitely worse by any reasonable metric.
Funny you saying that. What Savior did was ten times worse than what Rapid is accused of. Savior single-handedly destroyed BW scene. If Rapid did what he did at that era no one would give a flying shit about it. Times change.
In that era, there were still small scale sponsorship in foreign bw by the likes of Razer, steelseries etc... An accusation like Rapid is facing would have been extra toxic to them and been dealt with switfly then too. Faster than now where sponsors are essentially gone.
That being said you are right, savior s crimes are way worse
On January 08 2024 02:12 quaristice wrote: remembering how day[9] said in a video "i hope savior dies"
and then i compare rapid and savior's situations and how the community at large reacted, and so on.
it says a lot about people's priorities and what they find valuable. i don't mean to minimize savior's behavior, i think savior *should* be banned for life. but then you have this situation which is definitely worse by any reasonable metric.
Funny you saying that. What Savior did was ten times worse than what Rapid is accused of. Savior single-handedly destroyed BW scene. If Rapid did what he did at that era no one would give a flying shit about it. Times change.
It wasn't just SaviOr, but he for sure was the biggest name involved. A dozen players were involved. Because a dozen players were directly involved or implicated its scale was much bigger than had it been just Savior. A dozen players meant an organized collective effort to match fix, which put everything at stake.
Also do you think this is the right place to advertise your own channel?
I don't really understand why Rapid is being uploaded on the BSL YT after all this. I would not have, at least not without a note or some kind of short intro addressing it. Even without knowing all this drama: BSL still has Rapid banned.
The way that other gaming communities approached such issues, historically, was to just mute the voice of the offenders in the VODs. I think that could have been a good option over giving Rapid even more of a platform. Feels very "We're sorry."
If there is no material change, then it can be said that all of this was ultimately of no consequence, which seems pretty convenient for some. Don't think it's worth discussing at length, though; it is what it is.
On January 08 2024 02:12 quaristice wrote: remembering how day[9] said in a video "i hope savior dies"
and then i compare rapid and savior's situations and how the community at large reacted, and so on.
it says a lot about people's priorities and what they find valuable. i don't mean to minimize savior's behavior, i think savior *should* be banned for life. but then you have this situation which is definitely worse by any reasonable metric.
That’s crazy that you thought it was appropriate to post and promote new Rapid videos and your own channel in this thread.
I understand Zeros point of view where he doesn’t want the content to go to waste but I would of muted the sound (I know it’s a shitty solution) or muted the sound and tried to get the games recasted by someone else.
On January 08 2024 21:39 BlueStar wrote: There is no room for comparison. One is the single most influential Zerg of all time, and the other is a no-name noob caster, for whom nobody cares. Just stop the spam and let go.
noob? nah, his analysis is not noob level. when criticizing you should use more well defined terms though.
nobody? don't try to speak for everyone. as far as being , "no-name" , who the hell wants to be famous these days? with all the doxxing and swatting going on.
On January 09 2024 01:11 Jealous wrote: If there is no material change, then it can be said that all of this was ultimately of no consequence, which seems pretty convenient for some. Don't think it's worth discussing at length, though; it is what it is.
OH REALLY ?
What would you say about the fact, that I had a multiple days after the event ruined because members of the community I work my ass off for, decided to make a coalition against me and to ask people to stop supporting me and my projects ?
What would you say about them going towards reddit, twitter and anywhere they could think of to post this, but when I added a statement and told the truth, they didn't even bother to make another topic with their statement, but added their "position" in the edited post which no one reads ?
How would you feel if you would work your ass off for 10 hours a day for four days straight without even time to eat, and see posts like this as a thank you ? When none of the signed people who made this coalition didn't even bothered to PM me and ask what happened ?
What about the fact that your actions caused me to lose $200/mo+ on the Patreon and who knows how many potential viewers ?
Not to mention that no one gives a shit about the event, production and the games, but everyone is focused on this shitstorm.
Sorry man, but I guess I had enough consequences for one misjudgement.
Regarding uploading the vods on YT, I added info in the description of eac hvideo, I will pin each video with the comment and make post on YT community: "Nothing changed in the topic of Rapid and he is still banned from casting BSL, he was casting only during the first day of the LAN as a misstake. There is a thread on tl.net where I explain how it happened. I was wondering if I should upload those vods, but I decided that StarCraft value of those games and LAN atmosphere would be sad to miss. Also it would be unfair towards the players who came to Thailand on their own expense, to cut their games out."
On January 08 2024 21:39 BlueStar wrote: There is no room for comparison. One is the single most influential Zerg of all time, and the other is a no-name noob caster, for whom nobody cares. Just stop the spam and let go.
noob? nah, his analysis is not noob level. when criticizing you should use more well defined terms though.
nobody? don't try to speak for everyone. as far as being , "no-name" , who the hell wants to be famous these days? with all the doxxing and swatting going on.
I feel like people want to milk this thread until the last ounce of drama is sucked out of it. So I'm just gonna lock it. If you have any new information, or want to discuss something that wasn't already discussed to death, please open a new thread.
EPT
Sharp, to attend
