I fell in love with this game back 2019 or some years after Remastered was launched. It was a big rewind from when i was a child and watched my brother play the original campaign and ruined it by overwriting his save file, while wasting docent of mutalisks in some level. I even played some pirated version without audio for a short time in my early preteens, fun though i never felt in love with it at that point.
Only later after i graduated from school and got into university i rediscovered it and have been playing non stop at some points with some big breaks and sometimes short ones.
I think it is a great game to learn to analyze stuff, manage stress, build yourself a routine and a plan and work on it, while testing it in a real competitive environment. Watch Pros and test their builds, having fun. Its fun to perfect your strategies, improve your abilities, test different settings and how they affect your performance or not like hotkeys, screen resolution and technology doping,etc.
Non the less starcraft is very grinding and the community can be very nice and often also very toxic. It is fun to see different people and cultures online and the korean culture we get exposed is also amazing to see in VODs, translation videos, etc.
Though this game has a lot to offer, i feel like it has a lot of requirements as well... Computer, a good internet connection, some decent desk, good lighting(sun shining on reflecting screen not so good...), mental fortitude,non stop attention when playing(most times),etc. If not your experience can suffer a lot ... And you level literally decreases, for a thing that takes a lot of your time with minimal reward.
This is probably also one of the main things that limits starcraft 1 growing possibility and predefines its social groups.
But lets be honest their are just better games out there, and our time on this earth is limited. I feel like Chess an other passion of mine is just better in every regard. You can literally play it vs anyone, it is booming like never before, you dont even need to waste your eye light to play it, even playing it blind with a somewhat normal experience is possible. You can play it only on your phone, computer with minimal investment and poor internet. Play offline vs god or different levels. Keep your mind sharp, specially while your body gets older. I love starcraft, but these past months it just feels like a waste of time when i try to play it and even though i like to watch epic games of soulkey. It feels at some point enough is enough...
Leonix, I respect your opinion. I like both chess and starcraft. It is easier to play chess against all levels of players, including vs computers. But BW remains the best game ever invented.
Look at this game between Sk and FlaSh to cheer you up!
Im just answering your title and thats a yes. SCR will always be a waste of time and a way to procrastinate your life but if you still accept that and keep on playing you have made a choice.
You will thereby sacrifice time you could have spent on creating an awesome product or service or a great experience in some other form.
Chess as SCR is also a drug. Ive spent days going around thinking about moves and imo its not that much healthier than SCR in terms of wasting your time. At least not if ure a competitive person that always strive to be better at any cost.
I don't think there is a better game out there, but the game is still 25 years old and most of the posters here have several thousand hours playtime so feeling that way is totally natural.Try different game modes, just playing one day a week or just take a break for a while and do other things.
There are tons of better single player games, but BW is the best multiplayer game. The best RTS by far. Chess is boring since it comes with it's own permanent maphack and you'll always have to wait your opponent's next move. You may as well play HoMM 3 if you enjoy waiting for your opponent to make his moves.
Moving units, micro, in BW requires skill, moving a chess piece doesn't. BW has sound, chess doesn't. In BW you can always play better, in chess you cannot. Remastered added more colours to embrace gender-/sexuality positivity. Meanwhile chess is still racist, black vs white. Chess only seems sophisticated because there is checkers. BW is sophiscated regardless whether SC2 is there or not. I could continue, but you should have caught my drift by now.
On April 13 2023 18:45 Peeano wrote: Remastered added more colours to embrace gender-/sexuality positivity. Meanwhile chess is still racist, black vs white.
Excuse me, was it a joke or you seriously called chess racist?
On April 13 2023 18:45 Peeano wrote: Remastered added more colours to embrace gender-/sexuality positivity. Meanwhile chess is still racist, black vs white.
Excuse me, was it a joke or you seriously called chess racist?
Yes. This is well known.
In chess, there is a general consensus among players and theorists that the player who makes the first move (White) has an inherent advantage. Since 1851, compiled statistics support this view; White consistently wins slightly more often than Black, usually scoring between 52 and 56 percent.
On April 13 2023 18:45 Peeano wrote: There are tons of better single player games, but BW is the best multiplayer game. The best RTS by far. Chess is boring since it comes with it's own permanent maphack and you'll always have to wait your opponent's next move. You may as well play HoMM 3 if you enjoy waiting for your opponent to make his moves.
Moving units, micro, in BW requires skill, moving a chess piece doesn't. BW has sound, chess doesn't. In BW you can always play better, in chess you cannot. Remastered added more colours to embrace gender-/sexuality positivity. Meanwhile chess is still racist, black vs white. Chess only seems sophisticated because there is checkers. BW is sophiscated regardless whether SC2 is there or not. I could continue, but you should have caught my drift by now.
Chess is a 2 Billion USD Market . Starcraft? Maybe 2 billion wons?
On April 13 2023 18:45 Peeano wrote: There are tons of better single player games, but BW is the best multiplayer game. The best RTS by far. Chess is boring since it comes with it's own permanent maphack and you'll always have to wait your opponent's next move. You may as well play HoMM 3 if you enjoy waiting for your opponent to make his moves.
Moving units, micro, in BW requires skill, moving a chess piece doesn't. BW has sound, chess doesn't. In BW you can always play better, in chess you cannot. Remastered added more colours to embrace gender-/sexuality positivity. Meanwhile chess is still racist, black vs white. Chess only seems sophisticated because there is checkers. BW is sophiscated regardless whether SC2 is there or not. I could continue, but you should have caught my drift by now.
Chess is a 2 Billion USD Market . Starcraft? Maybe 2 billion wons?
Are you playing chess professionally? If not, the money in it is irrelevant, a lot of us play football or other sports, it s so many billions dollars worldwide but it doesnt matter because we re not making any money of it, if anything we re losing money by paying for season fees etc.
Leonix it comes down to what you like to do, if you enjoy the game at times (any game) then i d argue it s worth it for you, personally. It could be chess, playing an instrument, having a drink, whatever, that s your life. Not anything has to be money making or grand standing. Sure if you could cure cancer or play bw, perhaps cancer research should come first but otherwise do what you want with your time. There is no meaning to existence but what we make of it
On April 14 2023 00:17 Artosis wrote: the struggle against yourself and towards improvement in the most mechanically difficult game ever created will never be a waste of time.
sitting on ladder cheesing and doing only tricks to gain fake MMR will always be a waste of time.
On April 14 2023 00:17 Artosis wrote: the struggle against yourself and towards improvement in the most mechanically difficult game ever created will never be a waste of time.
sitting on ladder cheesing and doing only tricks to gain fake MMR will always be a waste of time.
Playing Starcraft and actively trying to climb the ladder/sharpen your skills is absolutely a big time sink, very grindy and mentally punishing. I think what your doing though is assigning a job type function to something that's a hobby and your attitude is going south.
I don't play Starcraft on the ladder with any expectation to win, I win probably 1 out of 6 games. I have a career, a wife, a baby son, I don't have time to sink hours a day into ladder games and sharpening my mechanics and studying games and memorizing build orders, my free time is far too limited for that at this point in my life.
But watching ASL and listening to Tasteosis do their thing? Way more fun use of my time, and if I want to go play BGH or Desert Strike whats wrong with that? I love Chess but wouldn't waste a second of my time watching people play it, even Magnus, it's just plain boring as hell. Fun to play but was designed about 4K years before the internet so spectator sport wasn't exactly in mind I'm sure.
On April 13 2023 12:53 Leonix wrote: I fell in love with this game back 2019 or some years after Remastered was launched. It was a big rewind from when i was a child and watched my brother play the original campaign and ruined it by overwriting his save file, while wasting docent of mutalisks in some level. I even played some pirated version without audio for a short time in my early preteens, fun though i never felt in love with it at that point.
Only later after i graduated from school and got into university i rediscovered it and have been playing non stop at some points with some big breaks and sometimes short ones.
I think it is a great game to learn to analyze stuff, manage stress, build yourself a routine and a plan and work on it, while testing it in a real competitive environment. Watch Pros and test their builds, having fun. Its fun to perfect your strategies, improve your abilities, test different settings and how they affect your performance or not like hotkeys, screen resolution and technology doping,etc.
Non the less starcraft is very grinding and the community can be very nice and often also very toxic. It is fun to see different people and cultures online and the korean culture we get exposed is also amazing to see in VODs, translation videos, etc.
Though this game has a lot to offer, i feel like it has a lot of requirements as well... Computer, a good internet connection, some decent desk, good lighting(sun shining on reflecting screen not so good...), mental fortitude,non stop attention when playing(most times),etc. If not your experience can suffer a lot ... And you level literally decreases, for a thing that takes a lot of your time with minimal reward.
This is probably also one of the main things that limits starcraft 1 growing possibility and predefines its social groups.
But lets be honest their are just better games out there, and our time on this earth is limited. I feel like Chess an other passion of mine is just better in every regard. You can literally play it vs anyone, it is booming like never before, you dont even need to waste your eye light to play it, even playing it blind with a somewhat normal experience is possible. You can play it only on your phone, computer with minimal investment and poor internet. Play offline vs god or different levels. Keep your mind sharp, specially while your body gets older. I love starcraft, but these past months it just feels like a waste of time when i try to play it and even though i like to watch epic games of soulkey. It feels at some point enough is enough...
I play SC because it's fun. And when I stop having fun with SC, then I stop playing it for a while. It's as simple as that.
Like Hawk said it is fun, just like watching a movie or any other leisurely activity that doesn't improve you. Another thing not mentioned is community, SCBW has an awesome community from CPL to BSL, hell look at this forum that we are on
On April 14 2023 03:04 CHEONSOYUN wrote: Gaming is a waste of time!
This is a great philosophical topic! It depends on where you want to sink in your hours, and we do have a choice! Activities a lot of people spend a LOT of time on in a similar category to gaming include: -Watching series and movies -Watching sports -Reading entertainment litterature -Browsing social media, follow influencers
Some are more serious about gaming, and have it as a hobby, and might even have important social relations in gaming. Then, it would be closer to activities like: -Organized sports -Excercise, beyond what your body needs. -Studying something for your own enjoyment -Hunting, collecting, clubbing, crafting, refurbishing or any other hobby people have for mostly selfish reasons.
So, what is a "waste of time", really? If playing a game adds enough to your life according to your personal preferences, then why not go for it? Especially sinking mindless hours into the 4 first categories can arguably be WORSE than playing an demnding, competetive RTS.
Any game is a waste of time if you don't do it professionally or treat it as a form of entertainment. Playing games should be treated like reading a book, watching a movie or series or something like that, it's just another form of entertainment in the modern world. If you treat the game differently, or if you don't enjoy the game but just tryhard under heavy stress, then you need to change your attitude or your game, because you are actually wasting your time. For me, Starcraft was great until I had a lot of time, playing regularly allowed me to keep some level close to my "max", but as soon as I stopped playing regularly, after a month's break, I felt like I missed a year of training, went back a year in skills. It was very frustrating, and I have to admit that the gameplay itself also stressed me out, especially 1v1, and since there was no 2v2 ladder in the remaster, it was the final nail in the coffin. Ultimately, for these reasons, after 20 years of playing SC, I started playing something else where a month break doesn't make me feel like I'm a newbie again, every game doesn't stress me out, and I feel like I'm just having a good time, what after years of playing SC was impossible.
On April 13 2023 18:45 Peeano wrote: There are tons of better single player games, but BW is the best multiplayer game. The best RTS by far. Chess is boring since it comes with it's own permanent maphack and you'll always have to wait your opponent's next move. You may as well play HoMM 3 if you enjoy waiting for your opponent to make his moves.
Moving units, micro, in BW requires skill, moving a chess piece doesn't. BW has sound, chess doesn't. In BW you can always play better, in chess you cannot. Remastered added more colours to embrace gender-/sexuality positivity. Meanwhile chess is still racist, black vs white. Chess only seems sophisticated because there is checkers. BW is sophiscated regardless whether SC2 is there or not. I could continue, but you should have caught my drift by now.
Chess is a 2 Billion USD Market . Starcraft? Maybe 2 billion wons?
Are you playing chess professionally? If not, the money in it is irrelevant, a lot of us play football or other sports, it s so many billions dollars worldwide but it doesnt matter because we re not making any money of it, if anything we re losing money by paying for season fees etc.
Leonix it comes down to what you like to do, if you enjoy the game at times (any game) then i d argue it s worth it for you, personally. It could be chess, playing an instrument, having a drink, whatever, that s your life. Not anything has to be money making or grand standing. Sure if you could cure cancer or play bw, perhaps cancer research should come first but otherwise do what you want with your time. There is no meaning to existence but what we make of it
This. With most hobbies (including competition or not), you just end up spending more and more money on equipment etc. until you go pro.
SC is still a really good game as long as you're enjoying yourself, its worth it. Its the last of its breed, when games actually required skill and difficulty levels weren't catered to a group of people. I understand from developers perspective but theres very few things more satisfying then improving at something that is super hard to master. Sc, just has layers and layers of complexity despite the limited and simplicity of the units.
On April 13 2023 18:45 Peeano wrote: There are tons of better single player games, but BW is the best multiplayer game. The best RTS by far. Chess is boring since it comes with it's own permanent maphack and you'll always have to wait your opponent's next move. You may as well play HoMM 3 if you enjoy waiting for your opponent to make his moves.
Moving units, micro, in BW requires skill, moving a chess piece doesn't. BW has sound, chess doesn't. In BW you can always play better, in chess you cannot. Remastered added more colours to embrace gender-/sexuality positivity. Meanwhile chess is still racist, black vs white. Chess only seems sophisticated because there is checkers. BW is sophiscated regardless whether SC2 is there or not. I could continue, but you should have caught my drift by now.
Chess is a 2 Billion USD Market . Starcraft? Maybe 2 billion wons?
lmao yeah this is why i play basketball in the park, because one day, i will make the NBA
I have given this a lot of thought, and my conclusion is that yes, BW is a waste of time. But! It is a waste of my time, which I wasn't doing anything better with anyway.
On April 13 2023 18:45 Peeano wrote: Remastered added more colours to embrace gender-/sexuality positivity. Meanwhile chess is still racist, black vs white.
Excuse me, was it a joke or you seriously called chess racist?
First time I hear this as well. Hilarious. Must be Woke level thought process.
I really shouldn't have to explain what is and isn't sarcasm to long time TL members. Perhaps to a new member and/or snowflake I would have to, then I will.
No. Starcraft can teach you a lot: self control discipline creativity motivation multitasking logical connections cognitive abillities hand eye coordination better eyesight improve ability to make precide decisions in a short amount of time learn to lose memory training reaction speed etc.
On April 14 2023 18:34 ash.]Rancor[ wrote: No. Starcraft can teach you a lot: self control discipline creativity motivation multitasking logical connections cognitive abillities hand eye coordination better eyesight improve ability to make precide decisions in a short amount of time learn to lose memory training reaction speed etc.
i learned a lot of insults in foreign languages. sex dog pussy hair
On April 14 2023 18:34 ash.]Rancor[ wrote: No. Starcraft can teach you a lot: self control discipline creativity motivation multitasking logical connections cognitive abillities hand eye coordination better eyesight improve ability to make precide decisions in a short amount of time learn to lose memory training reaction speed etc.
if you play in the various leagues you also learn what timezones are and how they work! ;-)
On April 14 2023 18:20 Peeano wrote: You monkeys. It's obvious af.
I really shouldn't have to explain what is and isn't sarcasm to long time TL members. Perhaps to a new member and/or snowflake I would have to, then I will.
No need to be rude if someone doesn't understand your jokes. gg no re
On April 14 2023 18:20 Peeano wrote: You monkeys. It's obvious af.
I really shouldn't have to explain what is and isn't sarcasm to long time TL members. Perhaps to a new member and/or snowflake I would have to, then I will.
No need to be rude if someone doesn't understand your jokes. gg no re
Speaking as someone who's loved BW since '98 but never really learned how to play it a few years back, I can say that the learning curve is so steep that the time and effort I'd have to spend to get anywhere near where I'd want to be (hitting my build and keeping on top of my macro for a whole game from start to finish, win or lose) is more than I have to offer at this time in my life.
Because of this, like some others here, I watch more than I play.
That said, what I have learned has been helpful in my professional life. I'm not naturally strong at organization, project management, and process. BW is all about strategic project management and mechanics (process) under pressure. The practice of keeping on top of all the BW "mini games"—following a build strategy, base management, macro, micro, teching, worker management, scouting, etc.—aligns to a degree with the project management side of managing digital marketing for a small company where you wear a lot of hats.
I even project manage using a BW-themed Trello flow:
So waste of time? Not for me. Would I put this on my resume? Maybe I should But you gotta have clear expectations going into a game like this that has been so refined for so many years and is built on challenging mechanics.
I was just thinking about how someone writing a post talking about Starcraft being a waste of time, is a terrible use of their time. I mean, they could be playing Go.
Then I realized, that posting that would probably be a waste of time, so I wrote this post to warn others about the dangers of posting. Too bad I didn't post until after the OP did.
On April 26 2023 08:28 BronzeKnee wrote: I was just thinking about how someone writing a post talking about Starcraft being a waste of time, is a terrible use of their time. I mean, they could be playing Go.
Then I realized, that posting that would probably be a waste of time, so I wrote this post to warn others about the dangers of posting. Too bad I didn't post until after the OP did.
On April 26 2023 08:28 BronzeKnee wrote: I was just thinking about how someone writing a post talking about Starcraft being a waste of time, is a terrible use of their time. I mean, they could be playing Go.
Then I realized, that posting that would probably be a waste of time, so I wrote this post to warn others about the dangers of posting. Too bad I didn't post until after the OP did.
Such a waste.
By doing one thing you are effectively not doing everything else. So yeah, everything can be a waste of time. The question comes down to leisure and productivity. Some people feel like they have too much leisure time and are not productive, then they can reduce gaming time. Others do not regret their gaming time. It's up to you to find your balance
I like the discussion on this. I think about it a lot myself.
Let's say I want to win at life - then I'd want to optimize my lifestyle build order by cutting corners on time-sink investments that aren't useful. The problem is, the idea of winning at life is entirely - and I do mean ENTIRELY - subjective.
Making more money than I need to spend to be happy might be a waste of time. Or chasing happiness beyond what makes me more money might be a waste of time. Even having and raising children might be a waste of time depending on what you decide is important. And the things you decide are important are ultimately arbitrary.
But... they don't feel arbitrary. My passion for watching pro starcraft feels legitimate, even if it doesn't help me get laid or flex on my haters.
It's a waste of time if you don't just enjoy playing, learning, struggling in it anymore, just like everything else. Once you hit a wall in this game (or even what you perceive is your personal skill ceiling without considerably more effort) it can become very frustrating, then it's better to take a break.
In general it doesn't matter for your enjoyment whether something is old or difficult or not for the masses - unless you're more looking for a quick way to be "in" and get famous, then BW is probably not what you're looking for (unless you can attract a crowd on Afreeca with your style).
You are simply not getting the reward you expect from playing the game. Now if you seek recognition by society somehow, how about studying quantum mechanics, play an instrument, start a business, make money or become a very very very good chess player coze no one cares about noobs.
I mean this is really "low tier philosophy" to realize what is a "waste of time" is super subjective.
If you have billions of $ I think doing almost any work/anything for money is a waste of time - in that scenario actually doing something you enjoy is a pretty good idea.
If you have close to no money and struggle to live - just doing things that bring joy might be a pretty bad idea.
Overall I would say: If things bring you joy but arent harmful at the same time (e.g. hard drugs like heroin as a striking example) that is meaningful and good and not a waste of time.
If your point is that SC BW is not an endeavor that will make you money - easy agree. It is close to impossible and even if you achieved it your hourly rate would probably be below 1$..
If you enjoy getting better at something SC:BW is definitely in the S-Tier realm..
Community can be a driving factor, too. For me personally the community time was during 2000-2010 ish..
But if you are interested and active I assume there is still a nice community.
Just want to focus on the last part of your post about chess and SC, they’re just totally different games. It’s like comparing Chess and poker, they’re just trying to be entirely different things.
You have incomplete info in SC and poker whereas chess has both parties with 100% perfect information the entire game. Chess is far more reliant on memorization of thousands of boards than it is any sort of on the fly thought process, and it’s really not developing a ton, and this has been a complaint since the days of Bobby Fischer. Here’s another point, you can become amazing at Chess having never played it, you cannot do the same with a study of SC.
i think bw is definitely good for you. it's one of the greatest games ever made and although it's become rather streamlined at top levels (meaning that generally a single progression is best) there is still a lot to be had from practicing and playing. i can imagine a lot of things which are more of a waste of time.
When I think about what constitutes a waste of time, it's tempting to take the retrospective view. Do I regret playing Brood War after school every day and not doing my homework, getting into fights with my parents, not doing as well as I could in school, limiting my future potential, skipping out on learning other more universally applicable skills? A little bit; it is tempting to get carried away thinking about the "what ifs" of life. Many of those hours were "wasted" in that regard.
But not all of them. During one of those hours, I was registering for a league that introduced me to some lifelong friends, our lives becoming inextricably intertwined by becoming housemates, going to parties in the city, and the millions of positive experiences, connections, and lessons that came as a cascading result of that one hour's investment into StarCraft. Hundreds of those hours were spent posting on TeamLiquid, which got me an under-the-table work-from-home job back in like 2008, which in turn got me a consistent consulting gig that put food on the table and paid a meager rent for years, funding my degenerate lifestyle. More recently, I found another job opportunity through TeamLiquid where some of my StarCraft skills actually do transfer (mostly keyboard + mouse skills but still), and it is the best job I've ever had. I fucking love my job.
None of these things would have happened without StarCraft and the thousands of hours I "wasted" on it. You never know when one of those "wasted" hours turns out to be one which changes your life forever - as long as you invest yourself into it, the community, and keep your mind open to opportunity.
Would I have been better off learning guitar, or studying for exams, or investing myself more heavily into my fitness and participation in team sports when I was younger? Maybe. But it's a waste of time to think about that. What I do know is that StarCraft has given me a wealth of positive, transformative, and irreplaceable experiences and memories. So, it wasn't a waste, to me.
extreme utilitarianism meant to gaslight labourer/salaryman? dont waste your time thinking about that. just do your own goals avoid comparing to others and focus on improving yourself.
Technically, everything is a waste of time, as all we do and everything we are will be long forgotten, given enough time. Might as well have some fun while we're here :D
As long as it's fun and/or rewarding in any way, I'd say it isn't a waste. But better to spend your time on something else if you feel you want to prioritize something else, though. As far as I'm concerned, to remove BW entirely from my life, would be to remove a part of what I am.
StarCraft is home. StarCraft is life. StarCraft is a bridge on which new friendships can flourish.
There is problem with playing the game from time to time. But other hobbies build skills or even potentially potential career paths. Also other hobbies involve exercise which is good for you. Going super hard on starcraft like people in the community advise is honestly bad for your mental and physical health. Almost everyone I see that really commits to starcraft accomplishes absolutely nothing and is incredibly hard on themselves and others, holding an very high standard.
So no, I do not think playing the game like a normal game or hobby has any problems. But really committing to the game like many people in here do, I think is an awful waste of time and youll get more fulfillment from doing almost anything else.
To answer that question, you must answer what the purpose of (your) life is, and then compare that to StarCraft. Does StarCraft contribute to or fulfil that purpose?
I'll get you started with two relevant questions.
1: Is art, or beauty in general (beholding beauty, creating beauty, becoming beautiful), a waste of time? 2: If not, then is StarCraft beautiful?
EPT
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Rg5d3Gw.jpg)
