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I don't think Protoss is the worst race
I reviewed all games of ASL and saw Protoss wasn't the worst race.
Protoss arrived round of 8 in all season, it's similar Terran and Zerg. Protoss was absent 2 times in round of 4 (ASL9,10). Terran was absent 3 times in round of 4 (ASL5,10,11). Zerg was absent 1 time in round of 4 (ASL1). Difference about the number of race in semifinal and final is not much.
Through 13 seasons of ASL, there are so much players, maps have played/used but Protoss, Terran and Zerg still fine. We have different maps but we never have winrate 100% in all matchup, except mirror matchup. It means any race can win/lose in all maps. ASL is Player vs Players, it's not Race vs Race. Skill of player will define who will win.
Flash said that Everything is skill. It means the all of rest is not important (race, map, luck, matchup...). Winner is always who played better. It doesn't depend on race, map, luck, matchup...
I don't think Protoss is the worst race but Protoss have so much bad players, that is why Protoss usually lose in the final match.
If Terran is the best race, why Terran just won 6 times in 13 seasons. It would be 2 if we minus Flash. Maybe I can know what race is the worst after this topic.
 AfreecaTV StarCraft League Remastered
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https://tl.net/forum/bw-tournaments/584057-new-worlds-map-contest-2-top-12-submissions
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U cant compare non-pros with pro games, especially in SC:BW were every tiny mining matters.
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Netherlands5198 Posts
There is no worst race, there is no best race. Protoss is strong, Zerg is weak, Terran is slow.
Map and luck definitely matter, but in general greater skill wins, yes.
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*says protoss is not the worst race*
*shows data showing that protoss is not doing as well as Zerg or Terran*
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So what you did here, I think, is something like:
(1) presented data that is consistent with protoss being the worst race but also consistent with other explanations
(2) made the highly contentious claim that nothing but skill matters in determining who wins
(3) arrived, therefore, at the conclusion that the data is explained by protoss being the least skilled
But there are at least two issues here:
(a) the claim that only skill matters is doing all the work for you. If your reader comes in with the belief that protoss is disadvantaged, so race matters, you need a really convincing argument, perhaps with some data, to make them change their belief. But you don't do this.
(b) your explanation has the problem that it presents a further problem: why are the elite protoss players less skilled than the elite terran and the elite zergs? What explains this?
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You cannot make definite conclusions regarding which race is the best and the worst, even with that much data. The performance of each race ist always dependent on maps and on the player pool. But if you assume that over the years the maps and the player pools balanced themselves out, you can conclude that protoss players can perform on a similar level as the other races.
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Bisutopia19299 Posts
In the ASL specifically, Protoss won when the maps were Protoss favored. ASL does a good job saying map balance can be more important then the player pool. See the Rain vs Snow season.
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Hardest race to play:
1.Terran
2. Zerg
3. Protoss
Best race if played close to perfection:
1. Zerg
2. Terran
3. Protoss
My opinion
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Imba race : Protoss
Best race when played to perfection:Terran
shit race that doesnt matter how good you play u still loss to some shitty protoss sending zealots to your base: Zerg
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At the highest level when players have incredible macro and balance that with great micro, what it comes down to is decision making and scouting. All the pros know what decisions need to be made if they have the intel since they have played thousands of games, but scouting for protoss at a higher level is harder. Terran has scans and mines, zerg has zerglings and overlords, protoss has zealots and obs. Now observers at a lower level are great since they are cloaked, but at a high level where players are actively trying to deny vision and have detection sitting an observer outside your opponents base is no longer viable. Also obs cost gas. Sure there are zealots, but that is 100 minerals to check for an expansion compared to 25 minerals or straight up free that the other races pay to scout. So although the game is very balanced I believe it is vision that makes the difference at a professional level. The next time you watch a PvZ or PvT check out the mini map. Terran v Protoss will have mines everywhere and scans, while protoss vision is limited to their army. In Zerg vs Protoss, the zerg will have lings sitting on expansions outside of the base, and sometimes if the protoss is not dominating the air the zerg will have overlords splitting the map gaining vision of anything past the halfway mark
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On July 12 2022 01:41 Kare wrote:
Hardest race to play:
1.Terran
2. Zerg
3. Protoss
Best race if played close to perfection:
1. Zerg
2. Terran
3. Protoss
My opinion
It's always been like this.
Even going to 17 years ago when pros were just figuring stuff out.
Generally speaking I think Terran has outperformed expectations. (and not just because of Flash).
Those 'standard' maps (4p) that everyone applauds are specifically very kind and safe for Terran. I think this is the main reason for their dominance.
The minute mapmakers stray away from the classic formula, Protoss starts winning or Zerg suffers a lot against Terran.
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Historically, results wise, it was always like this: T > Z >> P. It is a much stronger argument that P is the worst performing race than that T is the best performing race. KLM results also point very strong in that direction.
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On July 12 2022 04:18 Mutaller wrote:
At the highest level when players have incredible macro and balance that with great micro, what it comes down to is decision making and scouting. All the pros know what decisions need to be made if they have the intel since they have played thousands of games, but scouting for protoss at a higher level is harder. Terran has scans and mines, zerg has zerglings and overlords, protoss has zealots and obs. Now observers at a lower level are great since they are cloaked, but at a high level where players are actively trying to deny vision and have detection sitting an observer outside your opponents base is no longer viable. Also obs cost gas. Sure there are zealots, but that is 100 minerals to check for an expansion compared to 25 minerals or straight up free that the other races pay to scout. So although the game is very balanced I believe it is vision that makes the difference at a professional level. The next time you watch a PvZ or PvT check out the mini map. Terran v Protoss will have mines everywhere and scans, while protoss vision is limited to their army. In Zerg vs Protoss, the zerg will have lings sitting on expansions outside of the base, and sometimes if the protoss is not dominating the air the zerg will have overlords splitting the map gaining vision of anything past the halfway mark
Protoss should always have map control against terran and zerg other than a few all-in openings or 973 hydras.
Having map control and roaming the map while denying scouting is FREE scouting. Pro protoss players with map control never sit their army at their rally point when they have map control, they are always pressuring and engaging/retreating. I always felt it was T>P>Z rather than T>Z>P overall.
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On July 12 2022 02:36 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Imba race : Protoss
Best race when played to perfection:Terran
shit race that doesnt matter how good you play u still loss to some shitty protoss sending zealots to your base: Zerg
shit race that doesnt matter how good you play u still loss to some shitty protoss sending zealots to your base: Zerg & Terran
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On July 12 2022 01:41 Kare wrote:
Hardest race to play:
1.Terran
2. Zerg
3. Protoss
Best race if played close to perfection:
1. Zerg
2. Terran
3. Protoss
My opinion
This is correct
Protoss is the worst race when played at top tier pro level, and I’m so happy about it because I hate all the cheating/cheesing/BMing apes I see on the ladder
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On July 12 2022 07:43 TentativePanda wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2022 02:36 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Imba race : Protoss
Best race when played to perfection:Terran
shit race that doesnt matter how good you play u still loss to some shitty protoss sending zealots to your base: Zerg shit race that doesnt matter how good you play u still loss to some shitty protoss sending zealots to your base: Zerg & Terran
Spoken like someone who's never lost a PvP to zealots in the base.
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This blog is such a gem.
I am so in agreement with the following statement :
In YGOSU, it is mostly agreed upon that when three or more players are playing on team melee, protoss becomes the strongest race due to the likelihood of strong play-making potential from units such as early game harassment from probes having a single player dedicate all his focus on it, corsairs that never die throughout the entire game versus the zergs, and game changing late-game spellcasters such as arbiters.
I was thinking the same about Protoss before, and then I saw a few team melee games between Bisu+Best vs Light+Rush, and man oh man did the Protoss team totally destroy Terran.
The thing is, the Terran army during a fight always gets some sort of value even if you set your units up badly. If Protoss units are in range, they fire. Same thing can't be said for Protoss:
+ Dragoons hitting Depots or a floating Barrack.
+ Zealots getting on top of each other, and worse, eating a mine together.
+ High Templars evaporating before casting any storms
+ Shuttles dying mid-air because frankly, by the time you have the time to grab them they're already dead.
All of the above examples can be mitigated by a great player but only to some extent. Chances are, if you are able to finish sorting out the targeting of your ground army, your Shuttles are likely on auto pilot and you won't be able to cast all the storms you'd like. But if you have two or three players controlling the same battle. The extra values Protoss can get is huge.
Same thing can be said for PvZ. No more scouting Probe dying early. No more High Templar full of energy dying before storm can get off. No more Corsair wasting.
Obviously Terran and Zerg can benefit a lot from team melee as well. But I feel like the extra values are nowhere near Protoss'.
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I would say it is the worst race if your opponent best match up is vs Protoss.
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EPT
