EPTOn November 20 2021 07:20 jinjin5000 wrote:
fantasy dipped knowing this even before xd
fantasy dipped knowing this even before xd
he chose the "discipline" of organized Esports over to whatever the bw scene is like now, can't say I blame him tho.
FlaSh making Jangbi quit SC incident - Page 2
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51626 Posts
he chose the "discipline" of organized Esports over to whatever the bw scene is like now, can't say I blame him tho. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8930 Posts
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GeckoXp
Germany2016 Posts
On November 20 2021 14:22 evilfatsh1t wrote: actually fantasys recent interview with snow showed that it was his pride as a professional gamer that prevented him from streaming. he wanted to be held in high esteem and be respected for his profession and wanted the barrier between fans and players to be intact. if he streams then hes instantly friends with his audience and he cant command the respect he wants as a professional and therefore decided against streaming i know this is a low tier reply, but what? | ||
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superjoppe
Sweden3694 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13529 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On November 19 2021 13:29 Jealous wrote: That being said, in a time if uncertainty, it isn't entirely fair to compare progamers in the dying BW scene to whiners on ladder. Yes, anyone can say they weren't trying, but we have what amounts to testimonial proof even outside of this video about SC2 being prioritized due to Proleague being prioritized during that period. I can easily imagine many players being forced to practice/play SC2 when they didn't want to, for greater team unity and success. Remember hybrid league with SC2 snipers because SC2 got more games than BW? I wasn't actually comparing them with whiners on the ladder, but talking about a general excuse that has been used in the past in many different areas. I'm personally not a fan of it because even with the switch, and no way to fully confirm this, it's quite likely the other teams were in a similar boat. Stork, who is on the same team as Jangbi, stated that he didn't practice as much either, so how is it that Jangbi managed to apparently practice more than Flash and co? Is it possible that he asked for more time because he was hungry to win the last OSL and it was granted or maybe he was motivated and kept practicing at night after everyone slept? Alternatively, maybe he, too, didn't get as much time as he liked, and his latent skills were much better than his competitors? We just don't know, unless Jangbi states it outright so we never will at this point, but this was the basis of my argument here. That other teams and players were in a similar situation too, so how did Jangbi manage it then? No need to answer this, thinking out loud. On November 19 2021 16:38 evilfatsh1t wrote: your point stands if the players had a choice in what they practiced, but judging from what they said it seems like they didnt. obviously theyre not gonna hold the last tournaments in high esteem if the majority of the professional playerbase wasnt even given the opportunity to practice. if the players are arguing that jangbi won a tournament when it wasnt a level playing field then thats a legitimate point to make. thing is, it's true that we know that their time was getting limited, but none of them stated just how much time they had for BW or how lenient their teams were in regards to adjusting the BW to SCII playtime ratio. My problem with this argument is that if this was an average joe progamer who saw little to moderate success and made it into the last OSL, then it would fit much better. However, cmon man, this is Flash, and he seems like the angriest of them all here. If Flash asked the coach for more time to practice BW since he wanted to win the last OSL, considering his history with the team, would they deny that? Did he ask or try to ask and got denied? We simply don't know, but as mentioned previously, I don't like them reducing Jangbi's OSL win to a mere "none of us practiced so he won" argument. This was a competition after all ~ | ||
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Jealous
10397 Posts
On November 21 2021 05:07 BigFan wrote: I wasn't actually comparing them with whiners on the ladder, but talking about a general excuse that has been used in the past in many different areas. I'm personally not a fan of it because even with the switch, and no way to fully confirm this, it's quite likely the other teams were in a similar boat. Stork, who is on the same team as Jangbi, stated that he didn't practice as much either, so how is it that Jangbi managed to apparently practice more than Flash and co? Is it possible that he asked for more time because he was hungry to win the last OSL and it was granted or maybe he was motivated and kept practicing at night after everyone slept? Alternatively, maybe he, too, didn't get as much time as he liked, and his latent skills were much better than his competitors? We just don't know, unless Jangbi states it outright so we never will at this point, but this was the basis of my argument here. That other teams and players were in a similar situation too, so how did Jangbi manage it then? No need to answer this, thinking out loud. thing is, it's true that we know that their time was getting limited, but none of them stated just how much time they had for BW or how lenient their teams were in regards to adjusting the BW to SCII playtime ratio. My problem with this argument is that if this was an average joe progamer who saw little to moderate success and made it into the last OSL, then it would fit much better. However, cmon man, this is Flash, and he seems like the angriest of them all here. If Flash asked the coach for more time to practice BW since he wanted to win the last OSL, considering his history with the team, would they deny that? Did he ask or try to ask and got denied? We simply don't know, but as mentioned previously, I don't like them reducing Jangbi's OSL win to a mere "none of us practiced so he won" argument. This was a competition after all ~ IIRC from a Bisu interview, he said that in some other teams, they allow their star players who are making a deep run in an OSL/MSL to practice entirely for OSL/MSL and almost ignore their PL duties, while on SKT1 you have to practice for PL first and foremost no matter what individual tournaments you are in. I imagine that this logic applied to SC2 as well, where some teams and players may have been given more leeway in terms of their practice schedule while others were forced into SC2. Sounds like KT forced FlaSh into practicing SC2, while the implication is that JangBi did not have the same pressure - and FlaSh would know about something like that. Is it possible that it's just the liquor and salt talking? Sure. However, I am more likely to believe that there is some truth to FlaSh's words and he is speaking from a position of knowledge on the matter. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8930 Posts
the thing that made flash get pissed off is jangbi talking to other pros in a discussion about whos good and when jangbi was asked about flash his response was "...yeahhhhh". it wasnt a definite acknowledgement of flash but rather a reluctant admission with a caveat. thats what pissed flash off and is why he wanted to put jangbi in his place with 20 spons | ||
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Timebon3s
Norway772 Posts
Competitive people being drunk…and extremely loud and annoying, that one guy that doesn’t laugh is probably sober/designated driver. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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kidcrash
United States624 Posts
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Lorch
Germany3711 Posts
Just ppl talking shit while drunk, flash might be a god, but even gods get drunk | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On November 21 2021 11:21 evilfatsh1t wrote: keep in mind that the point that got flash annoyed in the video isnt actually his loss to jangbi in the osl. that just came up as a separate issue. the thing that made flash get pissed off is jangbi talking to other pros in a discussion about whos good and when jangbi was asked about flash his response was "...yeahhhhh". it wasnt a definite acknowledgement of flash but rather a reluctant admission with a caveat. thats what pissed flash off and is why he wanted to put jangbi in his place with 20 spons sure, and he is allowed to get mad if he wants. Just as Jangbi is allowed to not put Flash in his list either. I mean, from the discussion that he had with Sharp, Jangbi seemed surprised that Protosses were having problems with PvT even if Flash and Last were around, so perhaps he thought that PvT was a matchup that the Protoss player should win even with strong opponents compared to say PvZ where it's more difficult for the Protoss? Perhaps he thought that Flash, as strong as he is, isn't as hard of an opponent as he's made out to be? Maybe he secretly believes that P/Z is harder at high level than T so he acknowledges the best players in those races, aka Bisu and Jaedong (dunno his thoughts about Stork, but there was friction between them anyways)? I could go on and on. Point being that I agree that Flash was pissed about that, but both of them are free to their opinions. I only personally took issue with how downplayed the last OSL win was. It was definitely surprising to see how huge Flash's ego was considering how he presents himself. | ||
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Athinira
Denmark33 Posts
On November 22 2021 09:52 BigFan wrote: I could go on and on. Point being that I agree that Flash was pissed about that, but both of them are free to their opinions. I only personally took issue with how downplayed the last OSL win was. It was definitely surprising to see how huge Flash's ego was considering how he presents himself. Really? As someone who's worked ~10 years in the nightlife-industry, i only have one thing to say: That's alcohol for you  | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
Probably Flash feels that he would've taken down Jangbi ezpz if he had made it to the final instead. Even if true, that doesn't mean Flash deserved to win that OSL. There's always some rock-scissor-paper dynamic at top level competitions of all sports. But that does take away some 'gloss' away from a championship - a 'true deserving' champion is one who will just steamroll every other player in the competition, if given a chance, just based on the level of performance. Kinda mean of Flash to take down Jangbi. But it takes someone like Flash to recognise that there are champions, and then there are CHAMPIONS... | ||
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kidcrash
United States624 Posts
On November 22 2021 14:07 RKC wrote: Fantasy beat Flash convincingly only to fall to Jangbi. Probably Flash feels that he would've taken down Jangbi ezpz if he had made it to the final instead. Even if true, that doesn't mean Flash deserved to win that OSL. There's always some rock-scissor-paper dynamic at top level competitions of all sports. But that does take away some 'gloss' away from a championship - a 'true deserving' champion is one who will just steamroll every other player in the competition, if given a chance, just based on the level of performance. Kinda mean of Flash to take down Jangbi. But it takes someone like Flash to recognise that there are champions, and then there are CHAMPIONS... To be fair Jangbi beat Flash during the Jin Air OSL Ro8 in a straight up macro battle. | ||
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Scaramanga
Australia8093 Posts
On November 20 2021 20:42 RowdierBob wrote: Jangbi was better than Flash back when he was at his peak and Flash is still bitter about it. TBH even Fantasy had passed him too. It’s obvs something that hurts his ego to this day. Flash was clearly better in the kespa days, go look at the stats. Really unsure how you'd come to the conclusion fantasy and jangbi were better. | ||
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TMNT
3382 Posts
He just won a MSL just 2 months prior to his defeat to Jangbi in that 2011 Jin Air OSL. Talk about not being able to practice. Same for Stork. He was in the same team with Jangbi ffs. But let's be honest here, even if Jangbi did practice more than them (which I doubt is the case here), it's still such a lame excuse. It's the equivalent of, say Bonyth claiming Terror's BSL12 win doesn't count because he had baby duty during that time. | ||
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Jealous
10397 Posts
On November 22 2021 21:14 Scaramanga wrote: Flash was clearly better in the kespa days, go look at the stats. Really unsure how you'd come to the conclusion fantasy and jangbi were better. Well, toward the end of the BW era, both had beaten FlaSh in their tournament matches and the games were fairly convincing. Whether it's enough to say they were outright better is up to interpretation, but both were definitely up there and seemed to be on the rise whereas FlaSh seemed to be becoming more mortal relative to his peak; looking at SPL finals is another moment to consider, when it was still pure BW and everything was riding on a W. Both Fantasy and JangBi were doing exciting things in the vT match-up toward the end, both were now consistently making finals, and both had beaten FlaSh to get there. It's not too far outside the realm of reality, qualitatively. | ||
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