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Steeles21600
52 Posts
But jinjin posted on his youtube community awhile back the ASL winrates for terran, and outside of flash terran was universally the worst race. ![[image loading]](https://yt3.ggpht.com/72jjHAJ5unHWl8djMfdvbtduwBDdiQ1UcY4Lo1OcKdJj-p6iMS2to1QnI3jzZhAnI2qWMcaSJaeDTQ=s640-c-fcrop64=1,00000000a6faffff-nd) For me, I guess its just hard for me to understand how terran can vary so widely in their winrates on the same maps with the same players. This isnt even getting into the foreign scene, but its very strange. Is there something in particular about the spongames that makes it different? | ||
kogeT
Poland2040 Posts
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angry_maia
320 Posts
We also have Sorry and Jyj who are both really strong now. | ||
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Steeles21600
52 Posts
On August 31 2021 05:39 angry_maia wrote: Sponbbang matches reflect the current state of the pros while these are all-time ASL stats. If you were to rank players now you'd get a drastically different list: Rain, Bisu, Jaedong, Larva, Effort, Shine are basically either retired or irrelevant. Meanwhile Rush and Light have both improved a TON and could easily win ASLs (Light won KSL). We also have Sorry and Jyj who are both really strong now. Spongames have a sample size from 2017-2021. If you go through terran has the highest winrate at pretty much any date range, so this doesnt really add up. Its a good guess, but it makes it a tougher nut to crack. | ||
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Steeles21600
52 Posts
On August 31 2021 05:36 kogeT wrote: One reason could be that terran is so difficult to master per map. The more you play a single map as terran, the better you will be. This is due to learning proper build placement (terran suffer most from it), learning different positions where to move your army (terran is least mobile). ASL always promoted "new" maps that were often unorthodox, this made terran even weaker. Also terran is the easier race to be cheesed, making it again vulnerable on new maps. But this is just me theory crafting. ASL having weird maps is actually a very good guess koget. For example, that one map that had the third base islands, Blockchain SE. Maybe those maps are enough to mess it up. But this comes with a very strange thing, which is that blockchain actually has a positive terran winrate. Yes, the map that was universally called a terran graveyard is extremely terran favored in spongames. https://www.sponbbang.com/race/?month1=2019-06&month2=2019-12&bj= Terrans aggregate winrate is 58.9%, which is extremely high. Terran winrates are just universally extremely high in spongames. | ||
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CadenZie
Korea (South)545 Posts
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oxKnu
1207 Posts
And naturally people play on the same maps A LOT. Like a lot, every day, many games. So it only makes sense that in the long run Terran players would have the best results since they get to realize their equity on those maps in all match-ups by the time everyone probes the most viable strategies on them. This is a fundamental game theory concept. In the long run, the strongest competitor will prevail. | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3395 Posts
On August 31 2021 05:36 kogeT wrote: One reason could be that terran is so difficult to master per map. The more you play a single map as terran, the better you will be. This is due to learning proper build placement (terran suffer most from it), learning different positions where to move your army (terran is least mobile). ASL always promoted "new" maps that were often unorthodox, this made terran even weaker. Also terran is the easier race to be cheesed, making it again vulnerable on new maps. But this is just me theory crafting. ASL also purposedly picked maps that weren't Terran favoured at some point to prevent Flash winning too much | ||
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FyRe_DragOn
Canada2056 Posts
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QOGQOG
834 Posts
I think the rates will balance over time though. There are a ton of up and coming Terrans: Royal, JyJ, Barracks, and especially Rush. I mean, one game different vs Larva and Rush would probably have won last season. | ||
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
On August 31 2021 06:30 oxKnu wrote: Terran is without question the strongest race in this game and also generally very robust against a lot of 'new' builds, since the Terran replies to a lot of stuff kind of stay the same. And naturally people play on the same maps A LOT. Like a lot, every day, many games. So it only makes sense that in the long run Terran players would have the best results since they get to realize their equity on those maps in all match-ups by the time everyone probes the most viable strategies on them. This is a fundamental game theory concept. In the long run, the strongest competitor will prevail. I could get behind this theory if Flash and Light weren't also the best protosses. | ||
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BonitiilloO
Dominican Republic626 Posts
On August 31 2021 05:36 kogeT wrote: One reason could be that terran is so difficult to master per map. The more you play a single map as terran, the better you will be. This is due to learning proper build placement (terran suffer most from it), learning different positions where to move your army (terran is least mobile). ASL always promoted "new" maps that were often unorthodox, this made terran even weaker. Also terran is the easier race to be cheesed, making it again vulnerable on new maps. But this is just me theory crafting. i have said this so many times people dont still get it. | ||
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ExpatRights
53 Posts
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whaski
Finland577 Posts
On August 31 2021 09:32 Essbee wrote: I could get behind this theory if Flash and Light weren't also the best protosses. Also Last, who is pretty deadly with all races. During 2017-2019 Last held first place in sponbbang. He also kept other terrans in check with his tvt. Too bad it ended costing his health. It would be intresting to see sponmatch stats from 2014-2017 regarding this 'terran problem". | ||
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Optimate
249 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50466 Posts
On August 31 2021 11:22 Optimate wrote: I remember reading a Terran Korean pro stating that Terran players take longer to learn what builds work on new maps than the other races do. That is my belief as to the why. And ASL always have a couple revolutionary maps with all-new features. mostly this and the fact that ASL expanded its map pool definitely didn't do terran a lot of favors. | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
On August 31 2021 10:27 ExpatRights wrote: bw is terran favored Only if you dont know how to work a Shuttle. | ||
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oxKnu
1207 Posts
The only times the maps were not Terran favored we had Transistor and Third World. Both maps ended up having decent win-rates for Terran in the long run disproving the knee-jerk reactions to them. Terran is the classic upper-class white-guy born in the Western world type of scenario. Bitches constantly while everything is laid out for them to win consistently. | ||
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HOLYBATS
Turkey741 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4020 Posts
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