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On March 03 2021 12:29 mierin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2021 12:26 Volka wrote:
Terrible news. It's not going to be the same. It won't! Every foreigner boycott the ASL starting now.
Boycotting ASL is exactly counterproductive in this case. Let's take a step back and withdraw emotion from this situation and analyze this. If anything, AfreecaTV has been going out of their way to bless us with english coverage for 10 seasons.
Afreeca is a streaming company and at the end of the day their goal is to drive more viewers to their platform. From what I see, most foreign viewers watch the livestream and VODs on Youtube and hardly anyone uses Afreeca (iirc the usual viewer counter for Afreeca ENG is a few hundred whereas the YouTube livestream can reach 4-5k average). This results in them getting almost no revenue which they might be able to live with if it drives more people to use AfreecaTV, but that doesn't happen as well.
A good reason for foreign viewers watching on YouTube is basically down to it's ease of use and familiarity, something which the foreign AfreecaTV website/app does not offer (seriously the foreign AfreecaTV website/app is absolutely terrible and unintuitive). The unfortunate thing is because the domestic market in Korea is so successful, it gives them very little incentive to devote money and resources to invest into building their foreign website/app, not to mention Twitch dwarfs them in the foreign market. If only they could spend a little bit more time and money on their foreign website/app, it would improve things significantly.
So at the end of the day, having a paid for english cast just doesn't make much sense from their point of view even if the Youtube channel is doing well.
Maybe we can think of another solution to this but boycotting ASL due to this decision is not the right move.
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The last thread of my childhood has been snipped off, and the final strand is slowly falling and flailing toward a brutally burning flame. What do adults watch these days for professional pvp action, real housewives? Help
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United States10569 Posts
While this is certainly sad, people here arguing that it's stupid need to calm down and look at it from Afreeca's business perspective.
Afreeca is a KOREAN based platform. It hosts a KOREAN tournament during KOREAN hours. Hardly any English speakers are watching during those hours anyways. A business will generally only pay if they will get financial gains back from an investment. Afreeca invests in casters to promote their games, get additional sponsorship and ad revenue, and attract viewers to watch. Why have commentators in the first place? To make the product more enjoyable and watchable.
Tastosis, unfortunately, are not worth the investment. While they certainly make the product much more enjoyable from an English viewer perspective, not enough viewers tune in to watch. Even fewer are ever buying any products shown via the advertisements (the products are Korean), and only a tiny fraction of the viewers will ever spend money on Afreeca perks or donations. The English fans who watch aren't watching Afreeca so much as they are watching Tastosis, then jump ship immediately. You aren't staying on the website, you aren't buying any of the ad products, so what's the purpose of paying Tastosis money on something that yields almost ZERO returns?
At the end of the day, it is a Korean company sponsoring a game that, while has seen tremendous growth in the foreign audiences, has not seen the growth translate to viewer counts and increased revenue.
However, I would urge Afreeca to allow people to use and upload their own English casts, not just on AfreecaTV, but also Twitch or Youtube. While it is understandable that Afreeca wants all the viewership traffic to their website, there are so many people that just wait for the Youtube video anyways and don't go to Afreeca.tv ever. To me, they lose hardly anything by allowing foreign communities to enjoy the casting in their own languages.
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Why would i watch ASL without tastosis? They are just as professional and as entertaining as the professionals playing the game. Not trying to degrade the skills of the athletes here, its just a reality for our demographic. If they have to make the choice as a business that's fine, but you definitely have to expect this response, and you definitely have to understand it.
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On March 03 2021 14:16 themusic246 wrote:
Why would i watch ASL without tastosis? They are just as professional and as entertaining and the professionals playing the game. Not trying to degrade the skills of the athletes here, its just a reality for our demographic. If they have to make the choice as a business that's fine, but you definitely have to expect this response, and you definitely have to understand it.
Because you want to see the highest level brood war competition of 2021?
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On March 03 2021 14:09 FlaShFTW wrote:
While this is certainly sad, people here arguing that it's stupid need to calm down and look at it from Afreeca's business perspective.
Afreeca is a KOREAN based platform. It hosts a KOREAN tournament during KOREAN hours. Hardly any English speakers are watching during those hours anyways. A business will generally only pay if they will get financial gains back from an investment. Afreeca invests in casters to promote their games, get additional sponsorship and ad revenue, and attract viewers to watch. Why have commentators in the first place? To make the product more enjoyable and watchable.
Tastosis, unfortunately, are not worth the investment. While they certainly make the product much more enjoyable from an English viewer perspective, not enough viewers tune in to watch. Even fewer are ever buying any products shown via the advertisements (the products are Korean), and only a tiny fraction of the viewers will ever spend money on Afreeca perks or donations. The English fans who watch aren't watching Afreeca so much as they are watching Tastosis, then jump ship immediately. You aren't staying on the website, you aren't buying any of the ad products, so what's the purpose of paying Tastosis money on something that yields almost ZERO returns?
At the end of the day, it is a Korean company sponsoring a game that, while has seen tremendous growth in the foreign audiences, has not seen the growth translate to viewer counts and increased revenue.
However, I would urge Afreeca to allow people to use and upload their own English casts, not just on AfreecaTV, but also Twitch or Youtube. While it is understandable that Afreeca wants all the viewership traffic to their website, there are so many people that just wait for the Youtube video anyways and don't go to Afreeca.tv ever. To me, they lose hardly anything by allowing foreign communities to enjoy the casting in their own languages.
This is not entirely true, Tasteless tweeted it was not due to the casters' pay (twitter.com)
The ultimate problem is foreign viewers are not watching on AfreecaTV itself, which Afreeca can easily justify if the number of viewers switch to Afreeca instead of Youtube. The viewer numbers are doing well actually, the english stream got 4-5k average last season which is great for almost no marketing and during a terrible timezone for NA. The YouTube VODs also get 50-100k viewers so it's not a viewer issue but a platform issue.
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On March 03 2021 14:18 Ikirouta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2021 14:16 themusic246 wrote:
Why would i watch ASL without tastosis? They are just as professional and as entertaining and the professionals playing the game. Not trying to degrade the skills of the athletes here, its just a reality for our demographic. If they have to make the choice as a business that's fine, but you definitely have to expect this response, and you definitely have to understand it. Because you want to see the highest level brood war competition of 2021?
I still watch(ed) it, yes. On youtube. Not sure what response you're fishing for here.
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Tastosis to cast BSL when ?!?
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you guys can just watch sc2 gsl instead, tastosis is still there
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United States10569 Posts
On March 03 2021 14:20 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2021 14:09 FlaShFTW wrote:
While this is certainly sad, people here arguing that it's stupid need to calm down and look at it from Afreeca's business perspective.
Afreeca is a KOREAN based platform. It hosts a KOREAN tournament during KOREAN hours. Hardly any English speakers are watching during those hours anyways. A business will generally only pay if they will get financial gains back from an investment. Afreeca invests in casters to promote their games, get additional sponsorship and ad revenue, and attract viewers to watch. Why have commentators in the first place? To make the product more enjoyable and watchable.
Tastosis, unfortunately, are not worth the investment. While they certainly make the product much more enjoyable from an English viewer perspective, not enough viewers tune in to watch. Even fewer are ever buying any products shown via the advertisements (the products are Korean), and only a tiny fraction of the viewers will ever spend money on Afreeca perks or donations. The English fans who watch aren't watching Afreeca so much as they are watching Tastosis, then jump ship immediately. You aren't staying on the website, you aren't buying any of the ad products, so what's the purpose of paying Tastosis money on something that yields almost ZERO returns?
At the end of the day, it is a Korean company sponsoring a game that, while has seen tremendous growth in the foreign audiences, has not seen the growth translate to viewer counts and increased revenue.
However, I would urge Afreeca to allow people to use and upload their own English casts, not just on AfreecaTV, but also Twitch or Youtube. While it is understandable that Afreeca wants all the viewership traffic to their website, there are so many people that just wait for the Youtube video anyways and don't go to Afreeca.tv ever. To me, they lose hardly anything by allowing foreign communities to enjoy the casting in their own languages. This is not entirely true, Tasteless tweeted it was not due to the casters' pay ( twitter.com) The ultimate problem is foreign viewers are not watching on AfreecaTV itself, which Afreeca can easily justify if the number of viewers switch to Afreeca instead of Youtube. The viewer numbers are doing well actually, the english stream got 4-5k average last season which is great for almost no marketing and during a terrible timezone for NA. The YouTube VODs also get 50-100k viewers so it's not a viewer issue but a platform issue.
Payment issue does not mean necessarily that Afreeca isn't still running at a loss on their investment. Just because Tastosis might say, yeah pay us whatever, if Afreeca runs at a loss, the only other alternative would be to pay them 0.
Afreeca also doesn't want to move to another platform, and why would they? They have their own platform that they want to grow and continue to make bigger. Why would they choose to split the audience between the two? They want to corner the market for Korean streamers, not let their investments start going to Youtube. They would rather lose out on X viewers than go to Youtube and have X viewers that would watch on Afreeca migrate to Youtube.
On March 03 2021 14:16 themusic246 wrote:
Why would i watch ASL without tastosis? They are just as professional and as entertaining as the professionals playing the game. Not trying to degrade the skills of the athletes here, its just a reality for our demographic. If they have to make the choice as a business that's fine, but you definitely have to expect this response, and you definitely have to understand it.
Korean casting isn't even bad for an english viewer, and you watch for the enjoyment that is the highest level of Brood War. Most people here will still be watching the ASL, they'll just have to wait for the Youtube VODs to come out because they won't watch on Afreeca. Are you watching for Tastosis, or are you watching for the Brood War is the real question you have to ask yourself.
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On March 03 2021 14:33 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2021 14:20 Dante08 wrote:On March 03 2021 14:09 FlaShFTW wrote:
While this is certainly sad, people here arguing that it's stupid need to calm down and look at it from Afreeca's business perspective.
Afreeca is a KOREAN based platform. It hosts a KOREAN tournament during KOREAN hours. Hardly any English speakers are watching during those hours anyways. A business will generally only pay if they will get financial gains back from an investment. Afreeca invests in casters to promote their games, get additional sponsorship and ad revenue, and attract viewers to watch. Why have commentators in the first place? To make the product more enjoyable and watchable.
Tastosis, unfortunately, are not worth the investment. While they certainly make the product much more enjoyable from an English viewer perspective, not enough viewers tune in to watch. Even fewer are ever buying any products shown via the advertisements (the products are Korean), and only a tiny fraction of the viewers will ever spend money on Afreeca perks or donations. The English fans who watch aren't watching Afreeca so much as they are watching Tastosis, then jump ship immediately. You aren't staying on the website, you aren't buying any of the ad products, so what's the purpose of paying Tastosis money on something that yields almost ZERO returns?
At the end of the day, it is a Korean company sponsoring a game that, while has seen tremendous growth in the foreign audiences, has not seen the growth translate to viewer counts and increased revenue.
However, I would urge Afreeca to allow people to use and upload their own English casts, not just on AfreecaTV, but also Twitch or Youtube. While it is understandable that Afreeca wants all the viewership traffic to their website, there are so many people that just wait for the Youtube video anyways and don't go to Afreeca.tv ever. To me, they lose hardly anything by allowing foreign communities to enjoy the casting in their own languages. This is not entirely true, Tasteless tweeted it was not due to the casters' pay ( twitter.com) The ultimate problem is foreign viewers are not watching on AfreecaTV itself, which Afreeca can easily justify if the number of viewers switch to Afreeca instead of Youtube. The viewer numbers are doing well actually, the english stream got 4-5k average last season which is great for almost no marketing and during a terrible timezone for NA. The YouTube VODs also get 50-100k viewers so it's not a viewer issue but a platform issue. Payment issue does not mean necessarily that Afreeca isn't still running at a loss on their investment. Just because Tastosis might say, yeah pay us whatever, if Afreeca runs at a loss, the only other alternative would be to pay them 0. Afreeca also doesn't want to move to another platform, and why would they? They have their own platform that they want to grow and continue to make bigger. Why would they choose to split the audience between the two? They want to corner the market for Korean streamers, not let their investments start going to Youtube. They would rather lose out on X viewers than go to Youtube and have X viewers that would watch on Afreeca migrate to Youtube. Show nested quote +On March 03 2021 14:16 themusic246 wrote:
Why would i watch ASL without tastosis? They are just as professional and as entertaining as the professionals playing the game. Not trying to degrade the skills of the athletes here, its just a reality for our demographic. If they have to make the choice as a business that's fine, but you definitely have to expect this response, and you definitely have to understand it. Korean casting isn't even bad for an english viewer, and you watch for the enjoyment that is the highest level of Brood War. Most people here will still be watching the ASL, they'll just have to wait for the Youtube VODs to come out because they won't watch on Afreeca. Are you watching for Tastosis, or are you watching for the Brood War is the real question you have to ask yourself.
There's no real way to measure the exact return on investment in this case, but Afreeca can easily justify the investment or loss if the viewer and VOD count of the Youtube English stream was switched over to Afreeca for example. This would mean that their foreign viewers are using Afreeca which would further incentivize invest in an English cast. Which is exactly what happened in this case if you read in-between Tasteless's tweet.
I'm pretty sure Afreeca doesn't make much money or might even run ASL at a loss due to licensing fees to Blizzard and what not, but they continue to run it because it gives them good publicity and indirectly increase their viewership on the platform. So at the end of day they are happy with making a loss if it indirectly increases their viewership in the long run.
Agreed on your point that they would rather lose out X amount of viewers to Youtube than spilt the audience.
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On March 03 2021 14:20 themusic246 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2021 14:18 Ikirouta wrote:On March 03 2021 14:16 themusic246 wrote:
Why would i watch ASL without tastosis? They are just as professional and as entertaining and the professionals playing the game. Not trying to degrade the skills of the athletes here, its just a reality for our demographic. If they have to make the choice as a business that's fine, but you definitely have to expect this response, and you definitely have to understand it. Because you want to see the highest level brood war competition of 2021? I still watch(ed) it, yes. On youtube. Not sure what response you're fishing for here.
Because you asked "Why would i watch ASL without tastosis?"
Theres your answer. If love the game, you watch it regardless of casters. Also most foreigners watching on youtube instead of afrreeca probably had something to do with this. Afreeca is trying to promote their streaming service via this starcraft league, its nothing but an expense to them, and the afreeca foreign stream gets 100ish viewers while the youtube stream gets multiple thousand. This kept going on for multiple seasons and now people are mad because they are shutting it down.
If you want to watch the highest level of starcraft competition you will watch the korean stream, but if you are interested in the casters and their personality just watch their streams instead.
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"Why would i watch (insert sport here) without (insert personality here)?"
what an american mindset
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This is really sad.
This was so great for so long,
so thank you for that.
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I get why they did it, but it still hurts. end of an era
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I've watched nearly 20 years of professional Brood War, most of it in Korean, and Tastosis was the first casting team to make me always want to watch BW in English. Watching ASL was a genuine delight for me primarily due to Tastosis, it won't be the same without them and I highly doubt I'll be motivated enough to watch the Korean casts, honestly.
Afreeca creates a great product and I hope they keep succeeding in the future, especially in Korea, but the english cast was a big reason why I tuned in for every match.
If there is a grassroots effort being set up, please count me in for a monthly subscription if we can somehow get Tastosis to cast ASL on a separate distribution channel.
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Very sad 
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On March 03 2021 11:32 Chris_Havoc wrote:
It also partially explains why they have been casting Valorant for AfreecaTV instead of casting BW events like ASTL 2.
As I understand it, as with ASTL1 they didn't cast it because they didn't get paid to do it. If they get paid to cast ASL why would they cast ASTL for free?
I hope they can band together and do a patreon or something to get paid to cast it in the future, but it just isn't the same when they aren't in the studio and the afreeca site and app if truly awful and practically unusable for me.
This is so damn sad.
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A sad day for foreign Starcraft 1 fans. Whilst current ASL viewership numbers were unlikely to reach those of Starcraft 1's prime, Tastosis' casting definitely contributed to attracting and re-vitalizing interest in the Starcraft 1 scene within the foreign community. Really hope that Afreeca would reconsider this decision and contemplate reversing it in the near future.
Meanwhile, we can all still support Tastosis through their Twitch streams and watching their casts of other games.
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EPT
