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Jealous
10353 Posts
On March 08 2021 15:13 Odoakar wrote: Afreeca player constantly freezes for me, it's unwatchable. If Tastosis starts a Patreon to fund their casting, I'll certainly pitch in. Sorry to hear you are having problems with Afreeca  What if the only way they can cast is if it is through Afreeca, as they said in OP? | ||
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rackdude
United States882 Posts
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flashimba
225 Posts
On March 07 2021 14:53 Samsakzerg wrote: 1. Tastosis are organinsing a deal with ASL for broadcast rights according to Reddit, need confirmation on this but Tastless apparently announced it on his stream that discussions are in progress. first reply below: https://www.reddit.com/r/broodwar/comments/lyop5f/which_casters_would_you_like_to_see_team_up/ 2. All this "talk talk talk" are by fans, creating a buzz, making this relevant. The bigger the buzz is, the more people is drawn to it and the more likely Tastosis or, BW community leaders such as yourself(organiser of 2 events i heard) can harness our collective effort/money hopefully to offer a solution. 3. Try to encourage newcomers, mere fans like myself to contribute, the "do you even know how business runs" is best kept elsewhere. 4. Lets do what's helpful. If Tastosis plans are true and go well, that is our planA, what is planB? It can be an open letter by you to AfreecaTV like you suggested or by another organiser, I will support and sign it. Lets play each of our roles, and this is my open letter to you, from a supporter to an organiser. Most of us want ASL English to be back, a lot of us want it to be back with Tastosis, and are willing to pay. I conclude my response to you, hope you do the same in your next comment. Lets not derail the discussion. I can confirm that Tastosis are trying very hard to negotiate with Afreeca. No details yet, but Tastosis fans should remain hopeful. There's a chance something could happen. The more people that show interest in supporting them, the better Quote from Artosis's stream's bot Tasteless and I are in talks with AfreecaTV about doing an official broadcast / VODs for ASL via crowdfunding (Patreon probably). Please let us know if you are interested in this! | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27230 Posts
On March 08 2021 10:35 Jealous wrote: Just want to let it be known that this was a feature in MBC/OGN during the KeSPA era too  I do love me some dual + split screen FPV. You’re jealous by name and now I’m jealous by nature. Salty enough I missed most of BW’s glory years! | ||
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Puosu
7034 Posts
On March 08 2021 15:40 rackdude wrote: Where do I give Tastosis money? 10 years have gone by: I have a career now. I'm ready to pitch in. There's lots of us | ||
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Asmi
Chile31 Posts
On March 08 2021 15:40 rackdude wrote: Where do I give Tastosis money? 10 years have gone by: I have a career now. I'm ready to pitch in. +1 I hope Tastosis talks with Afreeca turn out well | ||
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1717 Posts
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Lorch
Germany3703 Posts
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9-BiT
United States1089 Posts
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GeckoXp
Germany2016 Posts
On March 07 2021 09:19 Jealous wrote: Just think about it, let's say you have a business and make a product, let's say it's baskets. You spend $1 on the materials and sell them for $21, making $20 profit. Your baskets are really popular in your neighborhood, where delivery is cheap - practically free. However, for whatever reason, your baskets gained a small hardcore following in Angola. To ship your baskets to Angola costs $50. Are you going to ship your baskets to Angola, despite the fact that you are losing $30 for each one? Of course not, because that'd be moronic. Similarly, it is just as moronic to expect a business like ASL to care about the foreign audience when we bring in no notable revenue. That's fun. From a different perspective though, you should think about if there's a possibility that your baskets are everywhere in the neighbourhood and nobody needs them anymore. Obviously that doesn't translate to a digital service such as afreeca, which can generate more content from a wide array of potential games, but you chose that analogy in a digital world. Not to mention, no half talented salesman would entirely ignore the population of die-hard angolians, in the sense he wouldn't check out potential forms of solutions. Might be you can still generate some earnings if you find cheaper ways to ship or allow them the manufacturing of their own baskets after buying a license or something. After all, you want your business to grow, regardless if there are other basket manufacturers on the market or not. If you never change anything, chances are high sales will stagnate, drop and you will die before you can cash out. Point is, I never understood the "Blizz just acts like cooperation" or only slightly different "Korean just does $$$". It's not impossible to find alternatives or show good will, even if it's only to brand yourself as fun coperation or some new age hippie bullshit. The numbers Tastosis show are not so small I'd throw away any chances without second and third though, 'cause the costs are comparably small in marketing terms. I might be wrong tho and Tastosis both drive around in their Porsches and live the good life. | ||
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Jealous
10353 Posts
On March 09 2021 01:51 GeckoXp wrote: That's fun. From a different perspective though, you should think about if there's a possibility that your baskets are everywhere in the neighbourhood and nobody needs them anymore. Obviously that doesn't translate to a digital service such as afreeca, which can generate more content from a wide array of potential games, but you chose that analogy in a digital world. Not to mention, no half talented salesman would entirely ignore the population of die-hard angolians, in the sense he wouldn't check out potential forms of solutions. Might be you can still generate some earnings if you find cheaper ways to ship or allow them the manufacturing of their own baskets after buying a license or something. After all, you want your business to grow, regardless if there are other basket manufacturers on the market or not. If you never change anything, chances are high sales will stagnate, drop and you will die before you can cash out. Point is, I never understood the "Blizz just acts like cooperation" or only slightly different "Korean just does $$$". It's not impossible to find alternatives or show good will, even if it's only to brand yourself as fun coperation or some new age hippie bullshit. The numbers Tastosis show are not so small I'd throw away any chances without second and third though, 'cause the costs are comparably small in marketing terms. I might be wrong tho and Tastosis both drive around in their Porsches and live the good life. Good point, the analogy isn't perfect. Allow me to make a better one: Your landlord lets you keep a roof over your head on the condition that you maintain the property you are renting, and when you ask he for it he gives you a gas powered lawn mower and gas money to do so because you generate very little income of your own and in fact you have a bunch of expenses you can barely cover. Because you're a good dude you also mow the lawn of the little old grandma that lives about 10 miles away because some 20 years ago she sent you some good apple pie but hasn't really done anything for you or the landlord since then. However, the economic downturn has forced your landlord to take out a second mortgage on his home and now money is tight. You go to ask him for the lawnmower and gas money, but he knows that you are spending a lot of it on mowing that old lady's lawn. So, he gives you just enough to mow your own lawn, which you have to do otherwise you get evicted during a recession and become broke and homeless, and that would lead you to lose your job and income to boot. Do you still mow the old lady's lawn? No. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On March 09 2021 01:51 GeckoXp wrote: That's fun. From a different perspective though, you should think about if there's a possibility that your baskets are everywhere in the neighbourhood and nobody needs them anymore. Obviously that doesn't translate to a digital service such as afreeca, which can generate more content from a wide array of potential games, but you chose that analogy in a digital world. Not to mention, no half talented salesman would entirely ignore the population of die-hard angolians, in the sense he wouldn't check out potential forms of solutions. Might be you can still generate some earnings if you find cheaper ways to ship or allow them the manufacturing of their own baskets after buying a license or something. After all, you want your business to grow, regardless if there are other basket manufacturers on the market or not. If you never change anything, chances are high sales will stagnate, drop and you will die before you can cash out. Point is, I never understood the "Blizz just acts like cooperation" or only slightly different "Korean just does $$$". It's not impossible to find alternatives or show good will, even if it's only to brand yourself as fun coperation or some new age hippie bullshit. The numbers Tastosis show are not so small I'd throw away any chances without second and third though, 'cause the costs are comparably small in marketing terms. While I don't disagree with the idea that there is enough of a foreign base that would potentially be willing to pay for tastosis and that Afreeca should explore the option, the outrage that some posters exhibit towards Afreeca's goodwill of close to 5 years (remember that Afreeca also paid BD/xkcd to cast before tastosis stole their thunder lol) due to their decision is something, and this is the primary motivating factor as to why Jealous has been coming up with all these analogies. I think it's understandable to be upset, but keeping it in check and trying to understand why they made the decision and how to move forward from here is the best option here. | ||
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oxKnu
1262 Posts
On March 09 2021 01:44 9-BiT wrote: I think capitulating to Afreeca is a mistake, getting on our backs and begging for scraps like this. We should be crowdfunding a tournament to compete with ASL, not groveling for acceptance. Tooooootally dude. Could you please start the crowdfunding with the first 20,000 dollars? Thanks. | ||
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SchAmToo
United States1141 Posts
On March 09 2021 02:42 Jealous wrote: Good point, the analogy isn't perfect. Allow me to make a better one: Your landlord lets you keep a roof over your head on the condition that you maintain the property you are renting, and when you ask he for it he gives you a gas powered lawn mower and gas money to do so because you generate very little income of your own and in fact you have a bunch of expenses you can barely cover. Because you're a good dude you also mow the lawn of the little old grandma that lives about 10 miles away because some 20 years ago she sent you some good apple pie but hasn't really done anything for you or the landlord since then. However, the economic downturn has forced your landlord to take out a second mortgage on his home and now money is tight. You go to ask him for the lawnmower and gas money, but he knows that you are spending a lot of it on mowing that old lady's lawn. So, he gives you just enough to mow your own lawn, which you have to do otherwise you get evicted during a recession and become broke and homeless, and that would lead you to lose your job and income to boot. Do you still mow the old lady's lawn? No. I dont think these analogies really work with an internet streaming company like Afreeca. Some of the big factors about live-streaming media is how very different it is from other mediums, and thus very costly. Afreeca also does a very different way for streaming than most companies in the west and their methods don't work well with our internet usage/work. Also, i've routinely heard they dont really know that there are western audiences. either because they don't run stats/queries for that data probably because they dont expect we exist, or we exist in such a very small number it's trivial compared to their other numbers. Also, remember Tasteless stated it wasn't about pay. We're not on the inside of what happened or why it happened, and normally tasteless/artosis don't just fold over so I can't imagine it happened here. Truth is, we don't know what happened and maybe won't know. Struggling to find reasons is understandable but the way-out-there theories only work to suffice our own frustrations. Industry contracts not getting renewed can be very nuanced and complicated, or sometimes so blazingly simple and out of left field that unless they directly tell us what happened the best we can do for now is just work on alternatives. tldr; the why isn't so much important now, imho, as trying to figure out alternatives | ||
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oxKnu
1262 Posts
There really is not much depth to it. | ||
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Jealous
10353 Posts
On March 09 2021 05:57 SchAmToo wrote: I dont think these analogies really work with an internet streaming company like Afreeca. Some of the big factors about live-streaming media is how very different it is from other mediums, and thus very costly. Afreeca also does a very different way for streaming than most companies in the west and their methods don't work well with our internet usage/work. Also, i've routinely heard they dont really know that there are western audiences. either because they don't run stats/queries for that data probably because they dont expect we exist, or we exist in such a very small number it's trivial compared to their other numbers. Also, remember Tasteless stated it wasn't about pay. We're not on the inside of what happened or why it happened, and normally tasteless/artosis don't just fold over so I can't imagine it happened here. Truth is, we don't know what happened and maybe won't know. Struggling to find reasons is understandable but the way-out-there theories only work to suffice our own frustrations. Industry contracts not getting renewed can be very nuanced and complicated, or sometimes so blazingly simple and out of left field that unless they directly tell us what happened the best we can do for now is just work on alternatives. tldr; the why isn't so much important now, imho, as trying to figure out alternatives I both agree and disagree. I agree that moving forward and thinking of solutions, putting effort in that direction, is more important than discussing the "why" of it all. However, not giving any credit to Afreeca as an organization and acting like they did this out of malice, making inconsequential threats to stop watching Afreeca events, and being whiny brats saying "fuck off Afreeca" on an internet forum is at least partially due to the fact that people don't understand that there is more than likely to be a perfectly reasonable "why" behind the decision. Exploring at least one of those "why"s can put it into perspective for some of the more rational and mature posters here, and will thus potentially help people get out of the waaaah phase and into the productive phase. Artosis also said it wasn't about money, and I believe he said on stream that they had actually previously agreed to a pay cut to keep it going. However, I haven't heard any talk of them doing it for free either - so again, I don't see how it is reasonable for people to expect Afreeca to do it at a loss. To be fair, the whole Twitch partnership thing does throw a wrench in the works too. | ||
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knotfun
41 Posts
I mean... I'm ok with that. I'm willing to pay. But I thought the problem was the conflict between Afreeca and competitors (Twitch / Youtube), not the wage. I think they should make the situation public and explicit, and then eventually ask for money. | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2435 Posts
On March 09 2021 06:55 oxKnu wrote: Afreeca's business model is League of Legends and semi-naked girls acting dumb on cam fulfilling the anime fantasies of middle aged men. There really is not much depth to it. That's why we need to ditch Afreeca and get some tournaments going on Twitch, am I right fellow true Brood War fans? | ||
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equalheights
Australia30 Posts
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Gourmand
Canada101 Posts
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