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On March 03 2021 20:05 Crateros wrote:Have you guys clicked on https://www.afreecatv.com/? What did you expect? It looks as bad as it gets. Their whole attempt to step into the english sector was a giant flop. They are happy with their page running on League of Legends and Camgirls. And it not like having a stream team is gonna rip a noticable whole in their budget. Especially when you cover the rest of the world
Agreed, not to mention the constant buffering issues which has been there for the past few years which is still happens to this date.
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I hope theres at least still the Korean YT stream, because AfreecaTV does not work very well for most people (I've usually been fine, but 99% of people I talk to do not have a good time).
The lack of english commentary is a shame because it'll prevent more people from coming in, but if it means that we also lose even more of our ability to watch (because of afreeca being dookie) then that's even worse...
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Have any of the progamers said anything? This probably doesnt affect them much but still interested to see if they have anything to say.
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I do believe that this finally killed my passion for Starcraft. First the Kespa teams disbanded, and now this. Real shame.
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StarCraft will survive. We must be strong. All of us. Together. For the future. Of mankind. And StarCraft.
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Sudden, unexpected, and very very sad. I have been keeping an eye out for news of the next ASL as watching Tastosis cast BW is the geekiest thing I do that I tell people about with the utmost enthusiasm.
This combined with the slow death of Blizzard (or grotesque zombification of Blizz by Activision) feels like we are at the end of an era.
I know fans will keep things alive, it's just a shame to lose such a well produced stream for the english speaking community.
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Been awhile since I last posted bc I only lurk watch and play now but wanted to say that I was a viewer who did not watch much sc:bw, but I watched almost all of the Tastosis casted ASLs and I think this sucks because that was high quality content
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United States10569 Posts
On March 03 2021 20:26 jinjin5000 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2021 14:09 FlaShFTW wrote:
While this is certainly sad, people here arguing that it's stupid need to calm down and look at it from Afreeca's business perspective.
Afreeca is a KOREAN based platform. It hosts a KOREAN tournament during KOREAN hours. Hardly any English speakers are watching during those hours anyways. A business will generally only pay if they will get financial gains back from an investment. Afreeca invests in casters to promote their games, get additional sponsorship and ad revenue, and attract viewers to watch. Why have commentators in the first place? To make the product more enjoyable and watchable.
Tastosis, unfortunately, are not worth the investment. While they certainly make the product much more enjoyable from an English viewer perspective, not enough viewers tune in to watch. Even fewer are ever buying any products shown via the advertisements (the products are Korean), and only a tiny fraction of the viewers will ever spend money on Afreeca perks or donations. The English fans who watch aren't watching Afreeca so much as they are watching Tastosis, then jump ship immediately. You aren't staying on the website, you aren't buying any of the ad products, so what's the purpose of paying Tastosis money on something that yields almost ZERO returns?
At the end of the day, it is a Korean company sponsoring a game that, while has seen tremendous growth in the foreign audiences, has not seen the growth translate to viewer counts and increased revenue.
However, I would urge Afreeca to allow people to use and upload their own English casts, not just on AfreecaTV, but also Twitch or Youtube. While it is understandable that Afreeca wants all the viewership traffic to their website, there are so many people that just wait for the Youtube video anyways and don't go to Afreeca.tv ever. To me, they lose hardly anything by allowing foreign communities to enjoy the casting in their own languages. they already dont allow korean starcraft progamer youtubes to upload their own full games, but just limit it to 7 min highlight at most. The whole streaming platform between youtube and afreeca is tilting too, so do expect more changes going forward.
It's really tilting for sure. Unfortunately, Afreeca has too much to lose by sharing their rights to other platforms. Who knows how many current Afreeca Korean users would actually migrate over to Youtube/Twitch if they streamed on there. One reason I enjoyed KSL so much was that it was casted on Twitch.
On March 03 2021 22:37 quaristice wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2021 11:11 AfreecaTVGlobal wrote:Communities and English casters are still allowed, and encouraged, to broadcast the ASL to their own fans through our clean feed on their AfreecaTV Channels. If you are interested, please contact us here! is the only way to get the clean feed to contact them through that form or is it somewhere streamed on their site
Yep, you get a clean feed that you usually need Potplayer to plug in the addresses and stuff. Very simple honestly, they'll help you figure it out too.
On March 03 2021 23:17 The Intrepid wrote:
If Afreeca guys can't monetize 100k views per VOD on Youtube, that means they are morons. Then they come up with the brilliant solution, don't do Youtube anymore (and lose 100k views/VOD). As I said, morons ...
Dude... do you know how much money 100k views on Youtube even gets you?
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On March 03 2021 23:17 Crateros wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2021 23:11 bracala wrote:On March 03 2021 23:08 Qikz wrote:On March 03 2021 22:49 bracala wrote:
If i understand correctly for example Tastosis still can cast ASL but not LIVE and they can cast VODs only on AfreecaTV?
That should not be a problem,they can watch and cast games just after live is finish. If thats possible they can open channel for donation and set whats the minimum amount of money to do that. Im sure we can earn more money then they would ask for that! They can't cast on Afreeca because they're twitch partners. Same reason Afreeca big streamers can't stream on Twitch. The streaming industry is really shitty like that. Hmm but i see more and more SC players stream on afreeca and twitch at the same time? Maybe they will allow them to stream or upload on youtube i dont know. I really hope something will happen and we will enjoy in ASL again with Tastosis! They sacrifice to be partnered with Twitch (and Afreeca?)
People that stream on all platforms (YT, Twitch, Afreeca) have to pay a tax of 40% from their donations on Afreeca. Premium partners (like Flash, Bisu etc) only pay 20% I think.
On March 03 2021 23:17 The Intrepid wrote:
If Afreeca guys can't monetize 100k views per VOD on Youtube, that means they are morons. Then they come up with the brilliant solution, don't do Youtube anymore (and lose 100k views/VOD). As I said, morons ...
100K views on YT today won't net you even 100$ for that video, and that's probably overestimating it.
Although I am sure Afreeca does not get anything for any of their VODs simply because it's de-monetized by Youtube for using copy-righted music.
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United States4126 Posts
It's so rare to find good post-KeSPA BW vods casted in English. This is a pretty sad day for the foreign community.
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Does Tastosis even need to recast off of a clean feed, live? Half the globe already watches ASL on a delay because of time zone issues.
If the community were to financially support Tastosis, would it be legally possible for them to recast from KCM and ASL vods?
Edit: I understand the Twitch Partner contract, but I'm referring to simply recasting and uploading vods onto YouTube with their English casting.
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this is really sad and a horrible signal...
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United Kingdom12059 Posts
On March 04 2021 01:26 PanoRaMa wrote:
Does Tastosis even need to recast off of a clean feed, live? Half the globe already watches ASL on a delay because of time zone issues.
If the community were to financially support Tastosis, would it be legally possible for them to recast from KCM and ASL vods?
Unless they're willing to break their twitch partner contracts they won't be able to legally recast from VODs as they can't stream on Afreeca.
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On March 04 2021 00:32 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2021 20:26 jinjin5000 wrote:On March 03 2021 14:09 FlaShFTW wrote:
While this is certainly sad, people here arguing that it's stupid need to calm down and look at it from Afreeca's business perspective.
Afreeca is a KOREAN based platform. It hosts a KOREAN tournament during KOREAN hours. Hardly any English speakers are watching during those hours anyways. A business will generally only pay if they will get financial gains back from an investment. Afreeca invests in casters to promote their games, get additional sponsorship and ad revenue, and attract viewers to watch. Why have commentators in the first place? To make the product more enjoyable and watchable.
Tastosis, unfortunately, are not worth the investment. While they certainly make the product much more enjoyable from an English viewer perspective, not enough viewers tune in to watch. Even fewer are ever buying any products shown via the advertisements (the products are Korean), and only a tiny fraction of the viewers will ever spend money on Afreeca perks or donations. The English fans who watch aren't watching Afreeca so much as they are watching Tastosis, then jump ship immediately. You aren't staying on the website, you aren't buying any of the ad products, so what's the purpose of paying Tastosis money on something that yields almost ZERO returns?
At the end of the day, it is a Korean company sponsoring a game that, while has seen tremendous growth in the foreign audiences, has not seen the growth translate to viewer counts and increased revenue.
However, I would urge Afreeca to allow people to use and upload their own English casts, not just on AfreecaTV, but also Twitch or Youtube. While it is understandable that Afreeca wants all the viewership traffic to their website, there are so many people that just wait for the Youtube video anyways and don't go to Afreeca.tv ever. To me, they lose hardly anything by allowing foreign communities to enjoy the casting in their own languages. they already dont allow korean starcraft progamer youtubes to upload their own full games, but just limit it to 7 min highlight at most. The whole streaming platform between youtube and afreeca is tilting too, so do expect more changes going forward. It's really tilting for sure. Unfortunately, Afreeca has too much to lose by sharing their rights to other platforms. Who knows how many current Afreeca Korean users would actually migrate over to Youtube/Twitch if they streamed on there. One reason I enjoyed KSL so much was that it was casted on Twitch. Show nested quote +On March 03 2021 22:37 quaristice wrote:On March 03 2021 11:11 AfreecaTVGlobal wrote:Communities and English casters are still allowed, and encouraged, to broadcast the ASL to their own fans through our clean feed on their AfreecaTV Channels. If you are interested, please contact us here! is the only way to get the clean feed to contact them through that form or is it somewhere streamed on their site Yep, you get a clean feed that you usually need Potplayer to plug in the addresses and stuff. Very simple honestly, they'll help you figure it out too. Show nested quote +On March 03 2021 23:17 The Intrepid wrote:
If Afreeca guys can't monetize 100k views per VOD on Youtube, that means they are morons. Then they come up with the brilliant solution, don't do Youtube anymore (and lose 100k views/VOD). As I said, morons ... Dude... do you know how much money 100k views on Youtube even gets you?
This is a reaction to the state of affairs now.
I get it, they're a small local streaming service that cannot hope to compete.
The main thing that is baffling is the following: They control an entire esports scene. They have access to the best players and they are connected to the most high-end esports industry in the world.
They have had this position for years. And they chose to remain local and small, and are now downsizing again.
I understand all the issues, the clashes with Twitch, Youtube, with Actiblizz even (as they wage their crusade to maintain monopoly control over their esports - which is a whole'n'other level of corporate insanity).
Yet, reflecting Korea as a whole in the last 20 decades, they chose to do relatively nothing with a unique anomaly that created an entire industry.
Instead, they chose to strip-mine whatever is left of Brood War - something that is lasting even longer than anyone would have expected - considering the criminal neglect and outright sabotage over the years. Now that the impossible to foresee downturn is coming, they're just shrugging it off and accepting their fate?
They have a product, it is the Korean esports scene.
You're telling me that that is not a commodity worth trading? To allow them to step outside the confines of their own platform to monetize?
At this point, I'll point towards Blizzards monopolizing tendencies again - and wonder how much of Brood war's continued bleating of the heart monitor is due to total indifference in a game and scene that does not register on the Kotick bi-monthly growth increase chart of giving a shit.
Honestly, there is a timeline where Blizzard and valve switched places, where it was Blizzard that sustained a mod from '98 from its inception to world-dominating esport and where CS got stranded on Contition Zero.
But no, DOTA is a valve game and Actibliz made 2 C 'ds and is making a third for Diablo II (which is totally not going to be a shitshow, cuz they said it won't be).
And here we have Korea squandering 20 years of 'something that shouldn't have ever happened and will never happen again' and mosey on into the sunset, consumed by the amalgam that is global esports - nothing more than an extended marketing campaign; something a 20 year old game doesn't need.
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This really hurts, and although I can understand that this is a simple business decision, I really can't help but feel they never really tried to make the English cast make business sense.
One thing I've never seen on the ASL English casts is an English commercial. Every single commercial was Korean, which understandably means they get zero return on investment from the overseas audience. Right now when you look at the ASL S10 playlist, you'll see that the finals had 135,761 views and the third place match had 100,683 views. I think that's only views after the stream ended though, since Youtube is a terrible platform and doesn't seem to save how many people actually watched it live. But regardless, are you telling me they couldn't find an English language sponsor to make those numbers commercially viable? Surely that can't be the case.
In reality I think this has more to do with them not wanting to stream on alternative platforms anymore, and they know that overseas viewers just don't use AfreecaTV. So basically the English ASL stream has become a victim of streaming platform politics. This is gonna leave me feeling sour when I rewatch old ASL broadcasts and the AfreecaTV CEO comes on stage to get his round of applause before it begins.
Then again, maybe it's just that the pandemic has nullified ticket sales and that just means they needed to cut costs. If that's the case then hopefully after the COVID situation improves there will be an English cast again.
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On March 04 2021 01:56 Greth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2021 00:32 FlaShFTW wrote:On March 03 2021 20:26 jinjin5000 wrote:On March 03 2021 14:09 FlaShFTW wrote:
While this is certainly sad, people here arguing that it's stupid need to calm down and look at it from Afreeca's business perspective.
Afreeca is a KOREAN based platform. It hosts a KOREAN tournament during KOREAN hours. Hardly any English speakers are watching during those hours anyways. A business will generally only pay if they will get financial gains back from an investment. Afreeca invests in casters to promote their games, get additional sponsorship and ad revenue, and attract viewers to watch. Why have commentators in the first place? To make the product more enjoyable and watchable.
Tastosis, unfortunately, are not worth the investment. While they certainly make the product much more enjoyable from an English viewer perspective, not enough viewers tune in to watch. Even fewer are ever buying any products shown via the advertisements (the products are Korean), and only a tiny fraction of the viewers will ever spend money on Afreeca perks or donations. The English fans who watch aren't watching Afreeca so much as they are watching Tastosis, then jump ship immediately. You aren't staying on the website, you aren't buying any of the ad products, so what's the purpose of paying Tastosis money on something that yields almost ZERO returns?
At the end of the day, it is a Korean company sponsoring a game that, while has seen tremendous growth in the foreign audiences, has not seen the growth translate to viewer counts and increased revenue.
However, I would urge Afreeca to allow people to use and upload their own English casts, not just on AfreecaTV, but also Twitch or Youtube. While it is understandable that Afreeca wants all the viewership traffic to their website, there are so many people that just wait for the Youtube video anyways and don't go to Afreeca.tv ever. To me, they lose hardly anything by allowing foreign communities to enjoy the casting in their own languages. they already dont allow korean starcraft progamer youtubes to upload their own full games, but just limit it to 7 min highlight at most. The whole streaming platform between youtube and afreeca is tilting too, so do expect more changes going forward. It's really tilting for sure. Unfortunately, Afreeca has too much to lose by sharing their rights to other platforms. Who knows how many current Afreeca Korean users would actually migrate over to Youtube/Twitch if they streamed on there. One reason I enjoyed KSL so much was that it was casted on Twitch. On March 03 2021 22:37 quaristice wrote:On March 03 2021 11:11 AfreecaTVGlobal wrote:Communities and English casters are still allowed, and encouraged, to broadcast the ASL to their own fans through our clean feed on their AfreecaTV Channels. If you are interested, please contact us here! is the only way to get the clean feed to contact them through that form or is it somewhere streamed on their site Yep, you get a clean feed that you usually need Potplayer to plug in the addresses and stuff. Very simple honestly, they'll help you figure it out too. On March 03 2021 23:17 The Intrepid wrote:
If Afreeca guys can't monetize 100k views per VOD on Youtube, that means they are morons. Then they come up with the brilliant solution, don't do Youtube anymore (and lose 100k views/VOD). As I said, morons ... Dude... do you know how much money 100k views on Youtube even gets you? This is a reaction to the state of affairs now. I get it, they're a small local streaming service that cannot hope to compete. The main thing that is baffling is the following: They control an entire esports scene. They have access to the best players and they are connected to the most high-end esports industry in the world. They have had this position for years. And they chose to remain local and small, and are now downsizing again. I understand all the issues, the clashes with Twitch, Youtube, with Actiblizz even (as they wage their crusade to maintain monopoly control over their esports - which is a whole'n'other level of corporate insanity). Yet, reflecting Korea as a whole in the last 20 decades, they chose to do relatively nothing with a unique anomaly that created an entire industry. Instead, they chose to strip-mine whatever is left of Brood War - something that is lasting even longer than anyone would have expected - considering the criminal neglect and outright sabotage over the years. Now that the impossible to foresee downturn is coming, they're just shrugging it off and accepting their fate? They have a product, it is the Korean esports scene. You're telling me that that is not a commodity worth trading? To allow them to step outside the confines of their own platform to monetize? At this point, I'll point towards Blizzards monopolizing tendencies again - and wonder how much of Brood war's continued bleating of the heart monitor is due to total indifference in a game and scene that does not register on the Kotick bi-monthly growth increase chart of giving a shit. Honestly, there is a timeline where Blizzard and valve switched places, where it was Blizzard that sustained a mod from '98 from its inception to world-dominating esport and where CS got stranded on Contition Zero. But no, DOTA is a valve game and Actibliz made 2 C 'ds and is making a third for Diablo II (which is totally not going to be a shitshow, cuz they said it won't be). And here we have Korea squandering 20 years of 'something that shouldn't have ever happened and will never happen again' and mosey on into the sunset, consumed by the amalgam that is global esports - nothing more than an extended marketing campaign; something a 20 year old game doesn't need.
Yes, they don't care what happens outside of Korea. Sucks that SC is locked there.
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On March 04 2021 01:54 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2021 01:26 PanoRaMa wrote:
Does Tastosis even need to recast off of a clean feed, live? Half the globe already watches ASL on a delay because of time zone issues.
If the community were to financially support Tastosis, would it be legally possible for them to recast from KCM and ASL vods? Unless they're willing to break their twitch partner contracts they won't be able to legally recast from VODs as they can't stream on Afreeca.
I understand the Twitch Partner contract, but I'm referring to simply recasting and uploading vods onto YouTube with their English casting. It won't have anything to do with Twitch, I just wonder if it will cause an issue with AfreecaTV. Again, a lot of people consume their ASL the day-after via YouTube anyway.
If recasting ASL is a no-go, then what about KCM vods? And so on.
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Logged on to my TL account for the first time in 9 ish years to express my disappointment with this. Hopefully they will allow some form of compromise because this is easily my favorite type of esports event.
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United States996 Posts
Ooph. What a punch to the gut. Biggest thanks to Tastosis, and hopefully they'll find a way to bring it back some day.
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EPT
