Wow, I tried it PvP on Blitz; it's a lot harder than it seems. No wonder BlueIris needed a friend to keep him motivated :-/

Right now my most biggest problem is Pylon timing ... especially after you have 6+ Gateways.

BlueIris, if I may ask, did you purposely try to make games last long versus the computer? Or did you merely play with all your ability?

BlueIris

Korea (South)107 Posts

July 10 2007 12:26 GMT

#62

@ Equinox_kr

I purposely let the game drag on. I had about 3 expos and I continuously tried to maintain such low macro. When I was maxed I sacrificed units or mass expanded to keep my macro low. And yes.. supply depot timing was incredibly difficult for me. However, it is merely making two supplies the moment your scvs finish building, etc. It should be even easier on protoss ^^

@Kwark

Sure, lets play a game. Not in order to prove whether apm really counts, but just for fun ^^ I'm sure Fisheye proved that apm doesn't determine the player. I agree, but I think it helps a player with macro and overall speed and control.

I'm 'Art.Love' on USWest -- Feel free to Message me sometime ^^

iluvwendys

10 Posts

July 10 2007 15:56 GMT

#63

i did this against some comps its pretty cool ive never experienced this sorta speed

The Storyteller

Singapore2486 Posts

July 10 2007 16:32 GMT

#64

This makes perfect sense to me. If I may draw an analogy of a boxer, obviously, throwing very fast punches is useless unless you are accurate. However, a boxer can train to throw fast punches first without getting out of breath before training to make those punches accurate. Let's not get distracted by the whole "APM is useless if you don't click on anything useful". Of course, but that doesn't mean high APM is useless in itself, and that doesn't mean this exercise is an end goal. It's a means to an end.

GodsDevil[5thF]

Romania622 Posts

July 10 2007 16:39 GMT

#65

love my 140 apm

CowGoMoo

United States428 Posts

July 10 2007 17:10 GMT

#66

Personally I prefer turning off my monitor and just going through cycles of hotkeys for 5 minutes like I would do in a normal game with 3 bases going. 1a2a3a4a00pp99pp88pp7oo55dtdtdzzzkkkttktkddzd00bpbpbgbg etc. Mouse speed is easy.

Wonders

Australia753 Posts

July 10 2007 17:45 GMT

#67

Focusing only on keeping minerals down and your apm up, not on what you need to do in the game, sounds a little counterproductive. It seems like it's worked for you, but I don't think that many people would be willing to play against a computer for so long, and once they've stopped thinking about their apm and minerals in a proper game, then it'll be back to normal.

Someone has said this before me, and I can't remember who, but for me the best way to improve apm was to speed up your mind. Always try to do what you are doing as fast as possible while thinking about what you need to do next. Then do that as fast as possible, and think about the next thing.

intrigue

Washington, D.C9935 Posts

July 10 2007 19:01 GMT

#68

On July 10 2007 18:46 Equinox_kr wrote:
Wow, I tried it PvP on Blitz; it's a lot harder than it seems. No wonder BlueIris needed a friend to keep him motivated :-/

Right now my most biggest problem is Pylon timing ... especially after you have 6+ Gateways.

BlueIris, if I may ask, did you purposely try to make games last long versus the computer? Or did you merely play with all your ability?

yep, one of the first things you realize with the macro/apm training is how often you need to look back to make pylons

Equinox_kr

United States7395 Posts

July 11 2007 09:39 GMT

#69

On July 11 2007 04:01 intrigue wrote:

Show nested quote +

yep, one of the first things you realize with the macro/apm training is how often you need to look back to make pylons

Haha, I used to wonder why pros were making like 2-3 Pylons at a time; I'm guessing this is the reason

Xeris

Iran17695 Posts

July 11 2007 09:50 GMT

#70

how long are your average games? like do you play until your maxed (try and keep 300 apm / low money until you max out?) or do you make each game like 25 mins or something?

ArC_man

United States2798 Posts

July 11 2007 15:36 GMT

#71

You can actually play team melee w/ the comp, goes up to 800 population XD. You have to make like 10 pylons at once to keep up w/ all the units.

Dark.Carnival

United States5095 Posts

July 11 2007 15:50 GMT

#72

my friend and I used to do this...well, not against computers, but against one another. we would force ourselves every game to play as fast as possible and make sure we kept our money low. it's different though then playing against computers, as we played normal games; just forced ourselves to go as fast as possible, so we worked on micro/macro/gameplay at same time. computer idea seems interesting though, especially if you don't have someone to play against that would do the same excercise with you.
another thing, though less viable for most people, is to mass game. mass gaming really really helps, and if you try to play your best/fastest each game like your excercise against a computer you can improve really fast. only problem is finding someone to game with and having the time to do mass games.

Da_PlayerX

Bulgaria1304 Posts

July 11 2007 15:57 GMT

#73

next step probably is trying to micro some things with the whole "macro+apm" thing , BUT on a map with warning beep after you reach 750 minerals or sort of.
i think it can help you practise a little bit micro during this whole "high-macro-low-mineral-count-with-highest-apm"

hope that help - i think i have such map - lost temple of course but will do for this practise

edit: for example microing things which cost time
for protosses - soooo important storm drop,reaver drop any king of harass
terrans - vulture mining surrounding enemy units, drops etc
zergs - definately mutalisking vs toss and terr

i dont train this way actually , i dont train at all - just playing games trying to macro and micro without caring 4 apm

gl all

Phyre

United States1288 Posts

July 14 2007 11:00 GMT

#74

Just tried this after a long period of inactivity (playing DotA -_-) and this is hard. The highest I ever got in terms of APM in normal play against humans during the time when I played most was around 100-110 so maintaining 300 was a real task. Haven't been able to do it yet. According to BWchart I only held 300 APM for the first minute of pure spamming then 200 APM the next 5 minutes or so. After that I was barely staying over 120 with my average hovering around 200 according to apmlive.

Been a bit hesitant to get online to play since I feel I'd just get stomped with my lowly 90-100 APM, so this has been a great way to practice a bit and build some confidence before looking for practice partners.

kefkalives

Australia1272 Posts

July 14 2007 11:45 GMT

#75

Did kwark and blueiris ever play? results would be interesting.

freelander

Hungary4707 Posts

July 14 2007 12:35 GMT

#76

well, i suggest not having more than 40/50% hotkeys.. it's important imo

infinity21

Canada6683 Posts

July 14 2007 13:03 GMT

#77

On July 14 2007 21:35 freelander wrote:
well, i suggest not having more than 40/50% hotkeys.. it's important imo

I think nada has like 60% hotkey lol

Person514cs

1004 Posts

July 14 2007 13:12 GMT

#78

Yeah. 400 apm means that you have to click 8 times a second. That's definitely not possible for most of us.

mikeymoo

Canada7170 Posts

July 14 2007 13:30 GMT

#79

I just play with my bad (at sc) friends while attempting this. They don't keep up as well, but they don't get confused by stupid things the comp does, and it keeps me more motivated.

270 apm right now, I can almost keep 300, spamming 550 at the beginning

gameguard

Korea (South)2132 Posts

July 14 2007 18:14 GMT

#80

APM kind of correlates with your mechanics. I think something like high 100s to low 200s is sufficient. Speed is critical when you are trying to maintain constant production, make supply, make buildings, all the while controlling your army. I think at least 50%, if not more, of your skill depends on your mechanics. The other half is game sense and experience.

Personally, I can see a tremendous amount of improvement in my game, when my APM was increased from like 125 to 225.