When I was really horrible at starcraft --> Losing in every single public game, I was given a practice exercise that drastically improved my macro and apm.
-------------------------------------------------------- The conditions for the practice was:
-- Minerals below 300 (unless saving up for expansion or mass units i.e. mutalisks)
Basically, there were only two conditions, and it would normally be practice against a computer. Throughout the entire game, you had to maintain both your money and apm. For about a week and a half, all I did was practice this exercise against a computer and I remember one thing. It felt like the dumbest waste of time in the world. It was boring and irritating because at first, it was hard enough just to reach 300 apm and even harder to maintain such a low money count. I lost against computers. I felt like a horrible player, but I continued this exercise with the enthusiasm provided by my friend.
My only goal was to spam and make units. Micro was out of the question (for me at that time). For two hours a day, for a week and a half, I woke up at 6 and played till 8. I held myself back from playing on the internet. My only opponent was the computer.
After about the first week, the exercise became easy and I began to incorporate micro and other aspects than simply speed and macro.
By the end of the week and a half, those restrictions were gone and I was able to play on the internet. The first thing I noticed was that my once 100 apm became 250+ without even trying. I was getting compliments from my friends that I played like a pro. That was just my speed.
My macro was incredible, and without the psychological burden of having to follow the conditions, I was able to play calmly. Rather than only focusing on macro; micro, macro, apm, all came in less than two weeks.
*(Before this exercise, I had great micro with alot of the starcraft units, but because of this, my macro was horrible for my screen would only focus on the units that I was so carefully controlling)
Sure, I didn't know all the ins and outs of stacraft, but I was playing great. The moment I came back on the internet, I played 10 pubs and won every single one of them. I beat the players who I couldn't beat before and somehow, I felt like the training was actually worth it.
Maybe it was just my personal potential or the effectiveness of this practice, but I felt that I would like to share this exercise with the TL-Net Community. In my incredibly long "career" in starcraft, those 2 weeks always stayed in my memory.
In reality, I was playing against a computer. However, I believe that with this exercise, I was actually playing against myself and in essence, teaching myself.
If you feel the need to dismiss this topic, feel free to do so. I am simply providing a summary of what I had to do in order to be at the level I am at now. Feel free to ask any questions
That's cool. I guess it's a good way to increase your speed and non-strategy aspects of the game. Maybe some others should try it and report their results.
As for the first post of this thread, interesting topic, I don't think I could EVER force myself to play vs a computer tho.. I used to want higher apm for a while when BWChart came out so I was spamming every game until I was playing at a natural 200 apm when I stopped spamming, a little bit similiar I guess.
On July 09 2007 19:39 Pressure wrote: well everyone wants to maintain a low money count and APM, but what program did you use to monitor this?
At the time, bwlauncher was still available. I used it to monitor my apm. Monitoring my mineral and gas count is simply at the top right corner of your screen.
As for the first post of this thread, interesting topic, I don't think I could EVER force myself to play vs a computer tho.. I used to want higher apm for a while when BWChart came out so I was spamming every game until I was playing at a natural 200 apm when I stopped spamming, a little bit similiar I guess.
Haha I guess i was just desperate at that time to get better, because the person who introduced me to the exercise had done the same exercise and she was an incredibly good player. But playing against a computer does get dull
A problem I have in increasing my APM is that spam clicking sometimes makes me do things that are counter productive (like moving my probes away). I've watched FPVODs, and what most players seem to do is to keep selecting and deselecting units. Is there a formula or rhythm for doing this? What are your personal preferences in keeping a high APM?
Also, does mouse sensitivity have anything to do with this? I have a low end optical mouse, and sometimes I feel I'm not accurate enough. Is high accuracy a big part of SC, or am I just imagining things? I mean, I don't mis click, it just feels really slow sometimes. I increased the mouse scroll speed to max today and it feels better now, but is there anything else I should do?
@Mikeymoo 2 hours a day. I couldn't sit down and play this game for 14 hours. No matter how fun it is ^^
@rushz0rz I was a terran player at the time. I played against protoss and zerg, choosing depending on my mood I play protoss now though ^^ Just because they are so underused and considered weak at the higher levels
@TheFoReveRwaR
When your doing this exercise, you need to focus all of your attention on simply meeting the conditions. It may sound easy on paper, but hell it took me a long time to even meet the conditions. When your playing against another player, you will most likely get slaughtered before you are able efficiently practice your apm and macro (practicing this exercise for 7 minutes is useless. It gets truly difficult when you are able to take 2 or more expansions). Playing against a computer is hard enough. However, if you are able to keep that high of an apm and macro while playing another player and win, you don't need to even read this thread.
@ riptide
I believe that everyone has a different style of maintaining apm. I really don't pay attention to apm any more, for it comes naturally. But I have a tendency to shift through my troops and at each of my gateways and nexuses. (1a2a3a4a556677889900) When I click at a location, I make alot of useless clicks. I click about 5-10 times to send a unit towards that direction. Its not that I purposely do it to increase my apm, but it has become natural.
Your question on mouse sensitivity is all about preference. I play with a slightly lower mouse sensitivity for I use my wrist alot. Yet some of my friends who play in Nal have a incredibly sensitive mouse. I tried playing a game with that high of sensitivity. My micro was killed.
I've found I got a lot better once I realized I could be better. It's cliche, but whatever. I used think "if I could send targetted units away that would be so good." Now I realize I can do that and I do do that. This story helps no one so I don't know why I'm posting it. Gogo post count boost.
WOW i finsished. i played 5 games and went 4-1. And saying form expeerience this shit is hard. but every game my apm is like only 200.and i swear if this doesnt make me better im gonna be pissed
On July 09 2007 22:30 ff7legend wrote: WOW i finsished. i played 5 games and went 4-1. And saying form expeerience this shit is hard. but every game my apm is like only 200.and i swear if this doesnt make me better im gonna be pissed
hmm, i think you're supposed to be over 300 even if you lose, rather than putting victory first and trying to get high apm as a secondary goal.
brute forcing your apm up seemed incredibly silly to me at first but it has paid off tremendously. three years ago i consciously spammed and spammed in every single pub game and even bgh game i played until i could maintain 200 apm without thinking, and eventually it's channeled into more and more useful actions.
i'm sure many others have 'naturally' worked their way up in terms of speed, but back then i was stuck at 150 apm, and frustrated by my inability to properly macro while microing. this method of getting faster honest to goodness works, and though it takes a bit for the results to show, you will be extremely pleased with yourself when they do.
I believe this is a terrible way to boost your speed, your apm improves when your feel for the keyboard and mouse improves naturally after playing thousands of games. Trying to boost it artificially through spamming and playing the computer is awful for your development. When you play ladder, you'll encounter a lot of players who are average but later when you look at bwchart you'll notice they have 300-400 apm while their macro is still terrible. This is how you become one of those people.
Most of us can keep our money under 100/100 if we're attacked once every 15 minutes like you are if you're playing vs a computer. Your multitasking only improves if you're pressured constantly, not when there's no pressure. When you look at the bwchart of low apm players their graph spikes when there's a battle and they have to micro and build at the same time. Those moments are the only ones when multitasking matters. Rest of the time spamming can easily be replaced with awareness and constantly staring at the minimap. Anyways, sorry to be bashful but this really is a bad way to improve.
If you watch replays of Ret and NonY vs players worse than them you'll see their money is under 200 for most of the game because they're not being pressured, they probably didn't get that way by playing a computer over and over again. Especially ret, if you watch the replays in his rep pack, he could keep his money under 100 consistently mid to late game
On July 09 2007 23:43 zulu_nation8 wrote: If you watch replays of Ret and NonY vs players worse than them you'll see their money is under 200 for most of the game because they're not being pressured, they probably didn't get that way by playing a computer over and over again. Especially ret, if you watch the replays in his rep pack, he could keep his money under 100 consistently mid to late game
On July 09 2007 20:59 Chill wrote: I've found I got a lot better once I realized I could be better. It's cliche, but whatever. I used think "if I could send targetted units away that would be so good." Now I realize I can do that and I do do that. This story helps no one so I don't know why I'm posting it. Gogo post count boost.
Yeah that's kinda what I do normally, I normally have the idea that "If you can think about it, you can do it" So if I imagine myself the king of macro, I can cheat an army just because all your energies is devoted to macro. :D
I tried spam whoring against a comp and it didn't even give me 300 apm. I got 277.
Game 1 ZvT against comp 277 lasted 9:51 Game 2- ZvP against comp 261 apm lasted 10:45
Am i suppose to not attack the computer or something so I can try late game management along with whoring spam? The money under 300 is no problem with the amount of spam I am doin, but if I try spamming any more, it will conflict with my playing.
I have the most horrible habit of hotkeying my production buildings yet not using the hotkeys. Instead, I click the minimap and click each individual production building.I do it extremely fast, though. But, it would be light speed if I used hotkeys.
My micro is awesome but my macro loses me games ._.'''
On July 09 2007 23:43 zulu_nation8 wrote: If you watch replays of Ret and NonY vs players worse than them you'll see their money is under 200 for most of the game because they're not being pressured, they probably didn't get that way by playing a computer over and over again. Especially ret, if you watch the replays in his rep pack, he could keep his money under 100 consistently mid to late game
But he also had 350 apm T_T
that has nothing to do with it, ret has 220, hullah has 140
heh apm i care not about my apm for zerg is above 200 that my vapm so many of my actions are spamming something that i cant build yet hahah i can get ym apm easiely above 300 and still loose ill get apm of 1000 or higher just spamming hotkeys people with near or above 200 apm should consern them selfs less with higher apm and more with stragety my micro is okay but i win off of my macro im a zerg player so i find 200 fine i mean i have a perfect example of some one who just has high apm but no real understanding of the game
my friend lost to another one of my friends who has 1/4 of the apm my first friend had all my first friend knows is how to prtoss rush so he lost to a rush with better stragety heh kinda funny to see a player with 280 apm loose to one with 67 apm i say this is a good idea if you know the game and stragety already cause a comp wont give you the expirence of a real player and if you dont have the expirence you find you self panicing and falling apart in a game rather then winning in style
yeah im wondering about what you do ? in like tvz you can kill the computer with your first 12 mnm, thats like 7 minutes of game there, and a toss will fall to the first 4 tank 6 vult push, do you not attack them ? i play vs comps like that sometimes and i dont attack them but u just always keep my units moving around the map so its like presuring
On July 09 2007 23:43 zulu_nation8 wrote: If you watch replays of Ret and NonY vs players worse than them you'll see their money is under 200 for most of the game because they're not being pressured, they probably didn't get that way by playing a computer over and over again. Especially ret, if you watch the replays in his rep pack, he could keep his money under 100 consistently mid to late game
But he also had 350 apm T_T
that has nothing to do with it, ret has 220, hullah has 140
Let's go back abit, what's the point you are trying to get across? My point is that Nony's 350ish apm helped his macro/micro because he's fast. Yours being?
On July 09 2007 23:43 zulu_nation8 wrote: If you watch replays of Ret and NonY vs players worse than them you'll see their money is under 200 for most of the game because they're not being pressured, they probably didn't get that way by playing a computer over and over again. Especially ret, if you watch the replays in his rep pack, he could keep his money under 100 consistently mid to late game
But he also had 350 apm T_T
that has nothing to do with it, ret has 220, hullah has 140
Let's go back abit, what's the point you are trying to get across? My point is that Nony's 350ish apm helped his macro/micro because he's fast. Yours being?
my point is obviously ret and hullah both have much lower apm yet still have great macro
It worked for me, but I'm really not sure how it will work out for you guys.
@ Zulu This exercise is not for the players who are already good at the game. Rather, it is an exercise that promotes speed while attempting to maintain macro. You are at first, over exaggerating and pushing yourself, therefore being "artificial" in one aspect, but just like everything else in the world, you have to push yourself in order to get better. The purpose is first to gain speed and trust me, a person will do the most useless things in the game to maintain their apm that high. Yet once a person is naturally adapted to maintaining that apm, their actions will become more useful and actually have a purpose as you continue to play the game.
Put it in this viewpoint. Some players aren't good enough to maintain their macro even when they are not being pressured. Again, this exercise isn't for players like Nony or Ret. I am simply putting out an exercise that worked for me and I am sharing this idea to others to see how well they fare.
@besiger.cry Try playing against 2 computers or drag out the game purposely. The first few times you try to do this. It'll be hard just to meet the requirements. It'll be one hectic game. I'm sure everyone here can beat a computer, but I suppose only experience tells. Beating a computer while trying to maintain these conditions is a difficult task in itself.
@kNyTTyM Thats why its hard ;p Instead of focusing on winning the game. Focus on meeting the requirements.
Once you can comfortably meet them, the next step is winning. But first priority should be to meet the standards. It is quite a daunting task from my memories ><
@ KrAzYfoOL Please read my post before you say things like that. I gave plenty of reasons why you should play computers at first. If you have a friend who will play against you and understands what you are trying to accomplish, it would be even better. Yet I personally did not have that friend who was willing to invest that much time to making me better.
Thanks for all the feedback I'm glad alot of you are trying it out. If it doesn't help you at all, feel free to yell at me for wasting alot of your time TT
"seriously most people that have replied fuck off please. I know Incontrol and his 140 apm zerg is 100x better than my 200 apm terran and I know that kouros[fou]'s 170 apm tvz is probably semi pro while mine is pgt C-. They can do more with lower apm because they have more experience and are more clear headed when they play, every moment they know what they have to do and how to react so they don't freak out and start spamming. To get to Kouros's 170 apm tvz level you probably need to have played millions of games at 170 apm beforehand to get to that stage of zen. For some people like me that is more unrealistic than say bashing my keyboard for 3 months until I get to 250 apm and hopefully with the same or little improved knowledge but much better mechanics, I can win players that I couldn't win before. And that is my goal. I've played a lot of tvz games recently where the opponent sucked but had 300 apm so they outmacroed me and I couldn't attack micro macro as fast and thus lost. I don't wanna see that happen ever again, I don't ever wanna get "outpaced" in a starcraft game. And if to that your advice is "learn better builds", "use dropship more often", "outsmart him", then you can gtfo this thread and hang yourself please. I asked a simple question, and want a simple answer, and people come in with their mighty wisdom and lecture me on how apm isn't important and how I should learn to improve other areas. just fuck off please, post some replays for comments and ask questions in the strategy thread for 2 months and I'll spam for 2 months let's see who's improved more after."
omg i did, a rash and youthful me. Luckily I did achieve that state of zen. I was so frustrated at what I thought were slow hands but in truth slow mind. My apm has probably been the same since I made that post but my everything else has improved leaps and bounds. I would probably attribute it to meeting nal_crayon's world wonder 150 apm tvz. If you ever feel like your hands are too slow bother him on west to ob a game. My advice now to the me of then would be to try to play faster but throw away bwchart because you can always do more with the apm you have.
and btw, incontrol's zerg is not 140 apm, it's 1400 apm
For those asking about which program to use, just patch back to 1.14 and use penguin. its the same to you because u play vs computer and dont need to go online.
I've never been able to defend myself when people saw my high apm while they had lower and won. Then later on down the line I was beating them but thats another story. The point is people always bash apm as useless. Well here is the thread telling you all(apm bashers) in simple words so that you may understand why its good. So here's my fast story.
A good gamer always makes the right decisions. APM will not make you better at that, playing the game will. What APM will do is make your mouse faster, your precision better. Those two together make for uber-micro. Those two together makes for uber-macro, go back home grab four probes make them move to pylon area, go back to micro, when probes reach pylon area go back put down 4 gateways, go back to micro then back to probes for 4 more gateways(thats 8 now) all this within 4-5 seconds that you were microing in. Thats why I like to play fast. (I rambled at the end of this one IMO. sorry.
2005 I saw blizzcon(Seen Reach). Downloaded starcraft via Torrents. Found Korean Progaming. Thought I could be pro if I was 300+ apm. So in that I became 300+ apm. I wasn't playing like a pro!? I did not give up, friends said you spam, friends said your apm is uselsss, friends said your apm is not apm, friends said apm is useless clicks and spam. Guess what! Months later my apm now owns. Never give up and you will learn the ways of the game the same way everyone else does, through playing, except you will be faster. It will become simple to play like this, and you will do more back(micro/macro) and forth(micro/macro) style of play. When you see stupid stuff that makes apm look bad, or a fucked up psi. Thats just bad memory not apm's fault. lol^^
For those who think people with high apm forget because they have too much shit going on. They just don't know what fast play is like. We've been slow and didn't like it. So we moved up a few notches. ^^
On July 10 2007 11:36 Knickknack wrote: seems like work and terribly boring...pretty much what sc has become for me.
OK so you learned to spend minerals well and be fast...key skills. No idea what you actually learned about the game though.
Well thats the point of the exercise o.O
Simply for macro and speed for those who need to improve upon it.
------------------------------------------------------------------- I personally believe that apm is important to the game. I believe that 300+ is over kill. Around 170-250 seems about a good apm. A high apm does not necessarily mean that you are good. It simply means that you are able to quickly shift between macro and micro screens, a necessary feat in higher levels of starcraft. For nothing beats experience, but IMHO, I believe APM and speed does help a player.
I am not saying that APM determines the player. I simply put out an exercise that worked and helped me. If you feel the need to dismiss it, then feel free to do so.
I didn't find it that difficult to keep a high apm, but since I was playing a computer (i.e. almost no pressure except right at the beginning sometimes) I found it difficult to spend my minerals once I was 200/200. Granted, I could have tried to overrun by then, but I felt like taking 5 expansions just to see if I could keep up.
I think it's an option worth a try for everyone who's willing to devote their time to such a method.
Small story. Two friends watched me playing a clanwar, both knew the game, played it themself and they saw a few progames with me. Now, the first thing one of my friends said when he watched me was: "This looks like work...".
Sure you can drill yourself until it's second nature. But i for myself allways remember the old "im young and i have time"-times where you just played the game, relaxed and eventually got better. It surely is a way, and i may give it a try sometimes, but i still believe that small and exponential steps will offer you greater success later on. Cause it can be hard to stop bad habits -> spam for instance.
In terms of macro management, efficiency should be the only goal. How you reach that target is of course up to yourself.
i like everything but the '300 apm' part. I worry this would encourage a player to spend WAY more time spamming just to keep the apm up and less time focusing on the best next moves. In my opinion you should keep the exercise but focus on keeping apm above 110.
I also think it would be great to do this in slow mode too, practice hand positions etc.
I too am worried by the 300 apm part. I'd like to challenge BlueIris to a high apm vs low apm showmatch, both because I love my incredibly low apm and because I think the focus on high apm detracts from more valuable training techniques. Up for it?
But it was still a useful topic, thanks for the contribution.
I think I'm going to try this with my noobie friends. It seems a lot smarter to gain as much as possible from playing those friends since they don't challenge me at all.
I tried this vs. the comp but the highest I got was 229 (my normal active apm is 150-180 with the occasional games above and below)
If you can hit 300 at the beginning, then you have what it takes to keep it 300 throughout the game by maintaining the same action patterns that you had in the beginning (or doing analogous spam)
It is an interesting idea that I have tried but not to this extreme. In alot of other sports you practice parts of the sport itself so why not in starcraft. However I'm rather satisfied with my 140ish apm and just try to play fast, accurate and effective now.
Other things I do from time to time vs comps is, trying to get to 200supply as fast as possible. Beat the comp with various strats in as short time as possible ect. About as effective as a pubbie hunters game in terms of training I guess. Just different.
You reached the two conditions in two weeks? That's amazing. You were probably a decent player from the start. I tried some thing similar but I just can't get the mouse to click accurate enough when I go too fast. for example, misplace the supplys or rally the wrong locations.
I purposely let the game drag on. I had about 3 expos and I continuously tried to maintain such low macro. When I was maxed I sacrificed units or mass expanded to keep my macro low. And yes.. supply depot timing was incredibly difficult for me. However, it is merely making two supplies the moment your scvs finish building, etc. It should be even easier on protoss ^^
@Kwark
Sure, lets play a game. Not in order to prove whether apm really counts, but just for fun ^^ I'm sure Fisheye proved that apm doesn't determine the player. I agree, but I think it helps a player with macro and overall speed and control.
I'm 'Art.Love' on USWest -- Feel free to Message me sometime ^^
This makes perfect sense to me. If I may draw an analogy of a boxer, obviously, throwing very fast punches is useless unless you are accurate. However, a boxer can train to throw fast punches first without getting out of breath before training to make those punches accurate. Let's not get distracted by the whole "APM is useless if you don't click on anything useful". Of course, but that doesn't mean high APM is useless in itself, and that doesn't mean this exercise is an end goal. It's a means to an end.
Personally I prefer turning off my monitor and just going through cycles of hotkeys for 5 minutes like I would do in a normal game with 3 bases going. 1a2a3a4a00pp99pp88pp7oo55dtdtdzzzkkkttktkddzd00bpbpbgbg etc. Mouse speed is easy.
Focusing only on keeping minerals down and your apm up, not on what you need to do in the game, sounds a little counterproductive. It seems like it's worked for you, but I don't think that many people would be willing to play against a computer for so long, and once they've stopped thinking about their apm and minerals in a proper game, then it'll be back to normal.
Someone has said this before me, and I can't remember who, but for me the best way to improve apm was to speed up your mind. Always try to do what you are doing as fast as possible while thinking about what you need to do next. Then do that as fast as possible, and think about the next thing.
On July 10 2007 18:46 Equinox_kr wrote: Wow, I tried it PvP on Blitz; it's a lot harder than it seems. No wonder BlueIris needed a friend to keep him motivated :-/
Right now my most biggest problem is Pylon timing ... especially after you have 6+ Gateways.
BlueIris, if I may ask, did you purposely try to make games last long versus the computer? Or did you merely play with all your ability?
yep, one of the first things you realize with the macro/apm training is how often you need to look back to make pylons
On July 10 2007 18:46 Equinox_kr wrote: Wow, I tried it PvP on Blitz; it's a lot harder than it seems. No wonder BlueIris needed a friend to keep him motivated :-/
Right now my most biggest problem is Pylon timing ... especially after you have 6+ Gateways.
BlueIris, if I may ask, did you purposely try to make games last long versus the computer? Or did you merely play with all your ability?
yep, one of the first things you realize with the macro/apm training is how often you need to look back to make pylons
Haha, I used to wonder why pros were making like 2-3 Pylons at a time; I'm guessing this is the reason
how long are your average games? like do you play until your maxed (try and keep 300 apm / low money until you max out?) or do you make each game like 25 mins or something?
my friend and I used to do this...well, not against computers, but against one another. we would force ourselves every game to play as fast as possible and make sure we kept our money low. it's different though then playing against computers, as we played normal games; just forced ourselves to go as fast as possible, so we worked on micro/macro/gameplay at same time. computer idea seems interesting though, especially if you don't have someone to play against that would do the same excercise with you. another thing, though less viable for most people, is to mass game. mass gaming really really helps, and if you try to play your best/fastest each game like your excercise against a computer you can improve really fast. only problem is finding someone to game with and having the time to do mass games.
next step probably is trying to micro some things with the whole "macro+apm" thing , BUT on a map with warning beep after you reach 750 minerals or sort of. i think it can help you practise a little bit micro during this whole "high-macro-low-mineral-count-with-highest-apm" hope that help - i think i have such map - lost temple of course but will do for this practise
edit: for example microing things which cost time for protosses - soooo important storm drop,reaver drop any king of harass terrans - vulture mining surrounding enemy units, drops etc zergs - definately mutalisking vs toss and terr
i dont train this way actually , i dont train at all - just playing games trying to macro and micro without caring 4 apm
Just tried this after a long period of inactivity (playing DotA -_-) and this is hard. The highest I ever got in terms of APM in normal play against humans during the time when I played most was around 100-110 so maintaining 300 was a real task. Haven't been able to do it yet. According to BWchart I only held 300 APM for the first minute of pure spamming then 200 APM the next 5 minutes or so. After that I was barely staying over 120 with my average hovering around 200 according to apmlive.
Been a bit hesitant to get online to play since I feel I'd just get stomped with my lowly 90-100 APM, so this has been a great way to practice a bit and build some confidence before looking for practice partners.
I just play with my bad (at sc) friends while attempting this. They don't keep up as well, but they don't get confused by stupid things the comp does, and it keeps me more motivated.
270 apm right now, I can almost keep 300, spamming 550 at the beginning
APM kind of correlates with your mechanics. I think something like high 100s to low 200s is sufficient. Speed is critical when you are trying to maintain constant production, make supply, make buildings, all the while controlling your army. I think at least 50%, if not more, of your skill depends on your mechanics. The other half is game sense and experience.
Personally, I can see a tremendous amount of improvement in my game, when my APM was increased from like 125 to 225.
Nice thread ; good advices by a manner and skilled poster is always welcome (and generally proves to be useful). I'll try this out when I get some free time (September maybe) but I'm not sure I'll have enough motivation ^_^; Anyway, I'll see.
Thanks for sharing, BlueIris Maybe one day we'll play together if you're not afraid of playing vs a D- Protoss -_-;
Heh, I'm doing a lot better in iCCup than I ever did in PGT, and I did try this. However, I really only did it like 5 times overall, and did not maintain either of the goals, so I can't be 100% sure if it is attributed to this exercise.
that's a pretty decent exercise...maybe it'll improve my game as well, got a game coming up against a friend so i'll be sure to incorporate this exercise while i practice...
the spamming is really to teach you to keep your mouse moving at high apms so that when your not trying for that 300apm goal, you use quick mouse quicks to do useful things instead of spam, and that is what basically helps you improve your unit control at high apms
My apm is kinda low,and i am about to try this out. But i dont rly care my apm... i just dont like that i cant multitask, and my macro is crappy... i dont feel like killing my handz with spamming, and dont see, even if as i see nearly everyone spamz, so probably i am wrong,
Theoretically it will help you improve your hand speed, and thus, your macro and micro multitasking skills, but I would practice it normally because brute force training like that will help you but I don't think it's needed.
Hey I just wanted to say thanks for this thread and the advice. I know it's not for everyone, but it is working for me. My multitasking in general has gotten a lot better, and the hand speed is helping my micro as well.
Today I was able to move up from D- to D as a Terran player. I play at ~200+ APM (used to be 300) and I notice I'm doing less and less spam and more "real game" stuff.
I won't advise anyone to spam 300 apm first. Just 200 is enough. And more importantly : having 500 or less minerals is what will get you play pretty good. That should work greatly.
At least DeifyMe picked a good APM thread to revive. This method is kinda cool (it's actually makes you move faster if you're still moderately new to the game).
I'm suprised there isn't a recommended thread on APM/spam/stuch topics in the Strategy section, even though there are plenty of dumb APM threads out there.
As everyone said, ideally faster hand speed translates into more apt micro/macro/multitask (mainly multitask, IMO). It's really bad of me, but when I teach other people how to play SC, it pains me when I see the mouse move so slowly.
Jup, super thread here. I partially used the technique BlueIris was suggesting and it worked out perfectly. I started playing SC like 9 Months ago, and right now I'm around 280 APM with 180 EAPM, which is decent, I think. I really encourage anyone who wants to push their speed to try it out!
wow...i was following other people's advice of just letting your apm improve itself...i just tried doing this and got an average of 150 and didn't drop below 100! and basically no spamming either except for the first few mins... i usually average 100...so much easier now >.<
This is good advice, my apm went up from 70 to about 130 to where its at right now, 180. Plus I peaked at 534 a few days ago so that makes me somewhat happy
I just increased my APM by 15% by switching to Geico.
More on topic: What do people spam? I have taken to spamming my macro hotkeys whenever I'm not doing anything to check on production in gates/nexii. Are there any other things (that might be useful) that people spam?
On March 31 2008 04:42 DeifyME wrote: Is there any point of spam(except raising apm)?
It allows your hands to react faster to new threats/jobs you have to deal with ingame. If you're just sitting there doing only what's necessary, and then the enemy starts doing a bunch of harass or drops out of nowhere, it's difficult to consciously remember to speed up in order to deal with the new threat.
A good analogy is to that of a car. In a car, if you are sitting parked but then need to move, the acceleration will drastically slow you down. But even if you are rolling along at 5 mph, the acceleration will be that much faster. The same could be said for a kickboxer, it's best to lightly bounce on your toes rather than standing flat-footed.
Tried this at lunch break today, and I have got to say it is really difficult. I was struggling to get above 300 with just pure spam at the beginning, once i actually had stuff to do staying above 200 was a real challenge. In the end BWchart tells me my APM was average 158 and I did spam constantly..
So I have a lot of work to do. I probably 'tried' to much during the game, since i did win vs the CPU and spent some time microing and such, so I will need to focus more on pure APM to attain the constant 300. Was able to keep resources low tho, except when i reached 200/200 and could not macro any more..
Fun practice, i think this will help a lot. Even partway through the game i felt like I could act faster and actually pay attention to what was going on, so I am seeing big improvements right away. I am normally at APM 80-90, so averaging 158 felt really fast to me. Also nice to have something i can do during lunch break other than youtube VODs, since I can not connect to bnet due to router issues.
EDIT: Anyone know of a chaos plugin for live APM measurement that reflect your 'current' APM better? It seems the APMAlert does a whole-game average, so after beginning game spam it did not change very quickly regardless of if I spam or just watch it like a movie.
Rather than spamming I would recommend something else.
Take a normal map. Remove winning conditions so you can play without an opponent. For example python. Then turn one of the islands into a place where you need to micro an SCV against a zealot chasing it.
At the same time you need to get to 200 as fast as possible. Never get stuck on supply. Never have too many minerals, etc.
Maybe add something else as well. Maybe you need to respond to pings or do some other simple task. But maybe the third thing is for more advanced people.
Then, try to switch between different tasks as much as possible. Also switch around when you have that rare free moment. Use all 10 hotkeys, etc etc.
I don't believe in spam. If you need to train muscle memory then practice 1a1a2a3a4a5a6a7a8a9a0 or 5d6d7d8 or something just outside the game.
Im gonna give this a try. I was a fairly decent player up until half a year ago, when I dropped playing BW to focus on academics. My APM was a consistent 120, but its dropped considerably by now. My macro also suffered; I recently played a ZvT match, and even with low drone count, my mineral count nearly broke 1000 D:
when I came back to SC (when SC2 was announced :p) my APM was something like 50 as zerg. as I played more pretty casually without trying to spam, my apm reached and is at about 120-140 average with peaks at like 250. it was nice to see my APM increase when I got a better feel for the hotkeys and game sense, but when I've been trying to increase my APM without spamming some things that helped me were: psychology! after analyzing replays on BWchart I realized when I was peaking during exciting moments that I did infact have the potential to be faster. so I thought to myself that I'd try playing like I did in the peak moments when I have things to do. a big part of being fast imo is always knowing the next step, you have to think fast about what actions you want to do constantly ahead of time. this helped me at least, even though I'm still at 130 apmish without spamming,
My apm before was 130, now its 150 but Ive only tried two games. So with spam im only 20 ahead of where i was...meaning my hands are just slow. How frustrating.
I tried this idea, but then realized I didn't actually spam much after the 5 minute mark. My APM and VAPM (on BWChart... VAPM = EAPM right?) were only 2 off, at 183 and 181 respectively.
During game I was using APM Detector (which I found in one of the resource threads). That program had me clocked at nearly 250+ the entire game, going from 300-400 during the early game (when I was spamming).
How do people usually measure their APM and effective APM? Which program is most consistent and widely used?
I've tried this for 2 days now, I guess I fall inside the "normal" boundaries:
1) Can't stay in 300 APM, dropping after say 20', averaging 250 APM 2) Resource count controlled most of the time, but often poor decisions in order to reach the goal. 3) Resource count gets near impossible to control after say 20'
Frustration is a bitch. Tough to say to self: "Perfectly normal, will improve in due time"
APMAlert for 1.15.1 on Chaoslauncher still works with 1.15.2, so I just use that. A simple apm counter that makes this annoying ass noise when you go below your set goal. (You can change the noise though ^^).
On April 02 2008 13:24 Nitrogen23 wrote: APMAlert for 1.15.1 on Chaoslauncher still works with 1.15.2, so I just use that. A simple apm counter that makes this annoying ass noise when you go below your set goal. (You can change the noise though ^^).
Update your plugins man, I released APMAlert for 1.15.2 like last month
Edit: And APMAlert measures over the whole game, so the APM will flatten out as time goes on. I guess I should make two settings, one for a more dynamic reading and one for a more static reading. I'll work on that a bit later
On April 02 2008 11:17 geno wrote: I tried this idea, but then realized I didn't actually spam much after the 5 minute mark. My APM and VAPM (on BWChart... VAPM = EAPM right?) were only 2 off, at 183 and 181 respectively.
During game I was using APM Detector (which I found in one of the resource threads). That program had me clocked at nearly 250+ the entire game, going from 300-400 during the early game (when I was spamming).
How do people usually measure their APM and effective APM? Which program is most consistent and widely used?
VAPM is not EAPM, it's short for valid APM and it just doesn't count the actions when you try to build a unit and you don't have the resources for it(i.e. invalid actions).
On April 02 2008 17:51 lololol wrote: VAPM is not EAPM, it's short for valid APM and it just doesn't count the actions when you try to build a unit and you don't have the resources for it(i.e. invalid actions).
On April 03 2008 02:28 XCetron wrote: Effective APM, aka not spams or unnecessary clicks.
but you have to realize that the effective apm can still be on the lower side of what you are really at because some actions you need to do multiple times in a row tend to get lost as well
On April 02 2008 13:24 Nitrogen23 wrote: APMAlert for 1.15.1 on Chaoslauncher still works with 1.15.2, so I just use that. A simple apm counter that makes this annoying ass noise when you go below your set goal. (You can change the noise though ^^).
Update your plugins man, I released APMAlert for 1.15.2 like last month
Edit: And APMAlert measures over the whole game, so the APM will flatten out as time goes on. I guess I should make two settings, one for a more dynamic reading and one for a more static reading. I'll work on that a bit later
I just tried this as zerg. It feels relieving to go down to like.. no mins + gas, but it is so irritating when you run out of supply. Forcing APM doesn't work when you have nothing to do... I guess it all comes with practice. I only boosted my average by about 25 210->235 =\. I am gonna try this as a different race and then see how it works out. Wish me luck.
Thanks to the OP for this! It sounds like a really good idea, I think I'm going to do this. I have a lot of free time, even more than two hours a day . So this should probably work well with me. Its simple and logical.
ah, the ever recurring theme of mastering a boring exercise, through which you shove the objective into the subconscious.
training really means training. when people think of the word "training", they usually think of developing skills (alright, mastery and proficiency - very cool). But you also "train" your dog, through simple things and repetition, as if the dog (and you, when you train) had miniscule IQ. It's not very cool or confidence boosting to think of it this way. But because of our biology, the seemingly designed for dunces is actually one of the best ways of learning. (it still sucks to do it though)
im starting this practice.. 2 games, but i get tired of spammin after a while. Im on 158 and 175 :p *my regular apm is about 130* gotta keep on making shortcuts and travel through different screens. And i noticed, that because of focusing on this, i kinda loose my objective on the strategy so
On April 03 2008 07:22 Realpenguin wrote: lol, this exercise is fun. I'm putting my spamming skills to the test, and I can see my macro getting a little bit better already.
By the way, APMAlert (in Chaoslauncher) is quite awesome. Especially with a funny alert sound.
That noise makes me wanna kill myself... I have to find a new one to put in it.
THANK YOU, BLUE IRIS! :D It really helped me! I actually feel my improvement in-game. And I've only done it for 3 days...I will continue to do so until I see it doesn't go any further. Thanks again!
On April 03 2008 06:53 ZeroCartin wrote: im starting this practice.. 2 games, but i get tired of spammin after a while. Im on 158 and 175 :p *my regular apm is about 130* gotta keep on making shortcuts and travel through different screens. And i noticed, that because of focusing on this, i kinda loose my objective on the strategy so
i think the idea is you focus ALL your energy on apm and mins at the beginning, dont worry about strategy at all and dont care if you lose(dont release the replays on the internets either XD that wud be humiliating) and then eventually your hand speed will be natural and you can worry about handy little things like strategy and micro later on
im guna be doing this plus some other exercises to test how it workls and may release a thread about it, what i plan on doing is for 4 days(during spring break) i will do 1 hour on the lt macro training map, 1 hour on ums micro training maps, and 3 hours or more on this. man tho its sort of a lame spring break thing to do but ive been busy and i want to be good before summer cuz then ill spend summer getting good and wont be good before sc2 comes out...
I played a terran yesterday who was about D+ level, when I checked bwchart he had 220 apm, if you keep spamming like this you're become like him, spamming doesn't improve your micro or decision making, it just makes you feel like you're doing more stuff but you're not actually doing more stuff and just losing awareness because you're not looking at the minimap or thinking.
On July 09 2007 23:38 zulu_nation8 wrote: I believe this is a terrible way to boost your speed, your apm improves when your feel for the keyboard and mouse improves naturally after playing thousands of games. Trying to boost it artificially through spamming and playing the computer is awful for your development. When you play ladder, you'll encounter a lot of players who are average but later when you look at bwchart you'll notice they have 300-400 apm while their macro is still terrible. This is how you become one of those people.
Most of us can keep our money under 100/100 if we're attacked once every 15 minutes like you are if you're playing vs a computer. Your multitasking only improves if you're pressured constantly, not when there's no pressure. When you look at the bwchart of low apm players their graph spikes when there's a battle and they have to micro and build at the same time. Those moments are the only ones when multitasking matters. Rest of the time spamming can easily be replaced with awareness and constantly staring at the minimap. Anyways, sorry to be bashful but this really is a bad way to improve.
i posted this when i was playing 15 games a day, I don't think I can word it any better
people are acting like he wants you to spam in real games, i think his idea is spam and increase your handspeed dramatically against comp and then not spam much past 2-3 min mark in normal ga,mes
does this really help? o yea can any1 here help me work my apm alert? some reason when i play on BW it leaves my sc and when i try single player it doesnt do the sound
eh, i wonder if people realize how slow progamers actually really play. the hotkeying and reactions are fast, but in terms of making meaningful actions it's not that fast. a helpful exercise in seeing this is watching fpvods with the lower part of the screen covered. don't pay attention to what is being hotkeyed, just pay attention to the main screen and their screen movements. it's very slow and calculated.
yeah progamers are pretty slow at making meaningful actions that's why they have a calm 300~ apm and are the best in the world. They use their hotkeys to check production and move units etc, it's all calculated but it's also very fast.
on-topic: @darkmole: from what ive seen it works for some people and doesnt work for others, if you want to try be prepared for a lot of hard and boring training...i dont understand what types of problems you say your having
If you wanna play vs comps, try playing on islands, blizzard maps work fine, try for example you being terran vs 4 zergs (yeah 4 can be actually pretty hard), and each time try to finish the game faster, that should improve your multitask and macro significantly.
Or vs 1 comp, practice builds, make some of your own.
Imo playing vs people is still better though.
Oh yeah no battlecruisers allowed, stick to the usual units you would do
Unless you play on a standard map vs a toss or terran to practice builds like i said, they are irrelevant and unimportant for the point of my exercise, it does not force you to a high apm which i consider inecessary and not much helpful, it does help multitasking, macro, micro (on a level since youll be outnumbered in like every battle) and whats really important: stamina, you will need like 40 minutes or more to beat 4-5 comps on an island map and after 20 minutes you WILL feel the strain.
I guess you havent tried it but blizzard maps tend to have few minerals and sometimes only either a vespene geyser or a clump of badly placed minerals so you have to expo plenty of times, if you turtle too much you will starve to death and the comps are pretty agressive most of the times (they sometimes get buggy ) so you have to take care of all your bases constantly.
Also the main parts of the match up should be met, like mnm with tanks and vessels (and obviously dropships) vs pure zergs. Youre not practicing build orders in this thing.
Ps. i havent tried it but it seems impossible when you are zerg. Medics are imbalanced.
Besides, however you want to play (what you want to improve) is your choice, turtling and massing battlecruisers, instead of trying to give it your all with multiple drops of mnm and whatever, is similar to not spamming or keeping above 300 apm the whole game.
I tried this drill for 2 days, never met requirements but had my APM jump about 50 points against the comp. Then I played a game today, and Macroed up a storm like i never had before. I wasnt spamming so my APM actually was lower than it was before, but my multitasking was much improved and i maintained a +150 population for 15 minuets or so in a long drawn out game.
edit: i'm still doing it. I think the key is to focus on "always do more"
we'll, ive stopped playing in TSL for the moment (had to spend some time to figure out what my classes are gonna be this quarter, so i didnt have the chance to play much). but i am trying this exercise, although only a game here and there and not the 2-3 hours per day the OP did.
its helping me focus on macro, and the increase in handspeed actually helped me keep my scouting probe alive longer (although these sessions are just against the computer). i only set my goal at 200 apm, which is twice my normal playing speed, so i guess im not really pushing myself. in fact, one computer is too easy and predictable, so ill probably play vs two computers in training.
Well, Does anyone has a efficient idea of improving protoss skills? To my mind an apm of over 300 with protoss during early gaming doesn't improve the gaming skill. Does anyone has a good idea? Or is even a Gosu reading this and has a hint =)
On May 19 2008 21:09 bosse wrote: Well, Does anyone has a efficient idea of improving protoss skills? To my mind an apm of over 300 with protoss during early gaming doesn't improve the gaming skill. Does anyone has a good idea? Or is even a Gosu reading this and has a hint =)
Think think think!! What is he doing? Where is his expo? Should I break him straight or be gay?
On May 19 2008 21:09 bosse wrote: Well, Does anyone has a efficient idea of improving protoss skills? To my mind an apm of over 300 with protoss during early gaming doesn't improve the gaming skill. Does anyone has a good idea? Or is even a Gosu reading this and has a hint =)
practice, practice, practice, gain game sense, watch replays, practice, analyze ur games, watch vods, talk with experienced players about ur games, practice, practice.
apm 300+?? apm means jackshit, forget apm but try to focus on ur play, try to as efficient as possible.. whats wrong with this retarded high apm discussion... as if any of ur opponent does care or additional 100apm make u play better.
the first five minutes are 1 and 2, the next 10 minutes are 3 and 4. look at any terrans with these kinds of hotkeys like nada or xellos and u find that after 5 minutes, you won't even see the number '2' being pressed. it's mostly just 3 and 4 and then occasionally 6,7, 8.
The reason for this is because if you're getting reaver dropped or dt harassed, the instinct is to use 1 and 2 for units to expel the attack. After the attack is foiled you tend for get to rebind 2 to your cc again so when you're pressing 12121211122121212...2 is nulled. you only reached 50% of your apm. Therefore, after 5 minutes, progamers no longer press '2' and switch gears to 3 and 4 for the rest of the game until they need those keys for units.
but pple who have low apm in general, arent doing the actions that cause apm to go higher -- the most glaring one for me being constant checking of production buldiings. Midgame, most people's apm falls after the early game spam/micro, and that's around when you see D/D+/C- players' macro slip off the face of the earth. If you try to keep your apm above 300, you need to do 'something' to keep it up. Most likely you'll spam 5678, and you'll see your gateway progress and shit, which reminds you to make units consistently throughout the game, which in turn sharpens your mind speed.
--
a short writeup on how the right attitude can make the exercise worthwhile.
I think this exercise is a lot less about game sense/knowledge than it is about simple mechanics and execution. I think a lot of newer players who are just simply not used to moving quickly will find this exercise both difficult and helpful.
take the 300+ apm off that, replace it with keep apm above 120-130 while maintaining minerals below 300 and I'm ok with that advice. btw, I tested that, I am c+ on ICCup and it's not that easy to do it so I will continue to do it at least for a while.
Actually whats about goons against bersis. For example 2 gons against 4 normal bersis. How do you kill them ? Do you you Move / and stop or do you focus one on bersi and move and move? Other Question is about lets say 4 goons against 6 tanks /not sieged) is it possible to kill the tanks and when yes how ? Thanks alot for your answers ( Iam neewwbie )
APM is essential. At least until your like 220-250 + APM, then it doesn't matter that much anymore, and is more a personal preference.
It's funny how some people say "APM doesn't matter" when pro-team coaches time and time again say how important it is and all the pros (don't mention Fisheye) in general have high APM.
Anyways, I'm not gonna turn this into an APM discussion (maybe I already did though...)
Excercises like this are very good to get your speed up
ill tell you best practice watch reps and play normal games ( not some apm shits coz your not progamer and you dont need 300 apm coz you will prolly never have 300 apm without spamming its for pros)and youll get better when you play more games and you will understand more and know what to do in which situation
On May 20 2008 04:19 Owl wrote: ill tell you best practice watch reps and play normal games ( not some apm shits coz your not progamer and you dont need 300 apm coz you will prolly never have 300 apm without spamming its for pros)and youll get better when you play more games and you will understand more and know what to do in which situation
Good point that not everyone can achieve 300 apm nonspam and that gaming exrience can help in real games. But then again this training isnt only for apm, but also for mechanics training such as macro.
Also its always better to have higher non spam apm. Even if you know what to do, you need the ability to do it.
Currently I'm trying to keep my apm above 200 and keep minerals below 500 except when im maxed (i usually hav lower than that when not maxed though; around 200 or so). This training so far has increased my "real game" apm from 100 to 150. I'm aiming to have above 200 apm in real games. In addition to that, my macro, micro, and multitasking has drastically improved from this practice. Thanks a lot blue iris
This practice's main disadvantage though is that its so different from real games in that real BOs arent necessary. Even though my mechanics are getting better, I'm gettin owned more often in real games. I'm plannin to get my mechanics higher first then get gaming experience from playing.
On May 20 2008 04:19 Owl wrote: ill tell you best practice watch reps and play normal games ( not some apm shits coz your not progamer and you dont need 300 apm coz you will prolly never have 300 apm without spamming its for pros)and youll get better when you play more games and you will understand more and know what to do in which situation
we all know this. but what help will knowing what to do when you dont having the timing sense or the speed to pull it off?
On May 20 2008 04:19 Owl wrote: ill tell you best practice watch reps and play normal games ( not some apm shits coz your not progamer and you dont need 300 apm coz you will prolly never have 300 apm without spamming its for pros)and youll get better when you play more games and you will understand more and know what to do in which situation
What exactly is this "spamming" you are speaking of? I think people uses it so vaguely without really thinking of what it means. "Spamming" also has uses, ie checking on your units and getting information, like if your opponent passes by some of your units, information you maybe would have missed if you wouldn't have checked (spammed? :/) on your units.
Basically no good player with high APM spam away just to get high APM or whatever your talking about. There is a reason why people use alot of hotkeys and circle through them, something which you perhaps aren't good enough of a player to get. No offense
I'm around 270-320 APM and if I would play slower I would miss out on so much stuff in my game and would play so much worse. I also play Terran and I think it requires more actions than let's say protoss in PvT and thus more APM; laying spider mines, siegeing/unsiegeing tanks, scanning, stimming etc.
Where do you draw the line between "spamming" and "spamless" APM?
Where do you draw the line between "pros" and "non-pros"?
OK I've tried this exercise today - played 5 games vs comp like that.
Its not that hard, the biggest problem I've met is I can't yet maintain 300 APM every game. Sometimes I check BWchart and it shows only 270+, sometimes about 302.
But my eAPM has started increasing. I usually had 130-140, but now 140+. Good exercise I think After a couple of weeks I think I'll be fully comfortable at 300 APM.
On July 09 2007 20:07 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: Why play against a computer though? Why not just focus on these things and play actual games at the same time?
I guess when you are playing a computer, you don't care about winning or losing so there are no stress or distractions. Also, since it is easy and you don't need to play mind games, you can focus on what you are working on, your mechanics, without worrying about the other important parts of the game.
On May 20 2008 16:11 eX-Corgh wrote: OK I've tried this exercise today - played 5 games vs comp like that.
Its not that hard, the biggest problem I've met is I can't yet maintain 300 APM every game. Sometimes I check BWchart and it shows only 270+, sometimes about 302.
But my eAPM has started increasing. I usually had 130-140, but now 140+. Good exercise I think After a couple of weeks I think I'll be fully comfortable at 300 APM.
Thanks BlueIriS :D
For a while I would play the computer all the time and managed to reach 400 APM of mostly spam, but it was completely useless. After a break from starcraft, and then playing less often and against people, my APM is 150-180 but I am playing a lot better than when I spammed. High APM is good, but you have to increase your understanding of the game so that you know what to do with all those extra actions. I now feel the need for slightly higher APM and might take the advice of the OP to achieve it.
What exactly is this "spamming" you are speaking of? I think people uses it so vaguely without really thinking of what it means. "Spamming" also has uses, ie checking on your units and getting information, like if your opponent passes by some of your units, information you maybe would have missed if you wouldn't have checked (spammed? :/) on your units.
Basically no good player with high APM spam away just to get high APM or whatever your talking about. There is a reason why people use alot of hotkeys and circle through them, something which you perhaps aren't good enough of a player to get. No offense
I'm around 270-320 APM and if I would play slower I would miss out on so much stuff in my game and would play so much worse. I also play Terran and I think it requires more actions than let's say protoss in PvT and thus more APM; laying spider mines, siegeing/unsiegeing tanks, scanning, stimming etc.
Where do you draw the line between "spamming" and "spamless" APM?
Where do you draw the line between "pros" and "non-pros"?
It's all too vague
shows us 2-3 reps? I'm interested in how non-koreans achieve high apm.
from my experience, no two APMs are created equal. One person's 300 apm does not equal another person's 300 apm even when you factor out things like strategy and game sense.
i've seen many non-koreans get 300 apm but their macro can be no better than someone who has 220-240. as someone who averaged 270 for a long time I notice that my game was even better when I dropped down to 220. But I still would like to have the 300 apm, as long as it's not just not the numbers.
so if you have some reps please share so that I may analyze.
On May 20 2008 01:39 bosse wrote: Actually whats about goons against bersis. For example 2 gons against 4 normal bersis. How do you kill them ? Do you you Move / and stop or do you focus one on bersi and move and move? Other Question is about lets say 4 goons against 6 tanks /not sieged) is it possible to kill the tanks and when yes how ? Thanks alot for your answers ( Iam neewwbie )
4 goons will die to 6 tanks when microed. they might even die to 4. depends on how well the terran micros. not how well you micro.
It's pretty pointless to argue "this exercize fucking sucks and it's utterly pointless and harmful to your game", when many people have indicated that after committing to it for a bit, they did see noticible benefit from using it as a training tool. If you personally don't benefit from it after trying it out for a bit, then that's fine too - not everyone matches up to the same training methods in most things anyways.
The general bashing seems a bit childish, esp when it's already been shown to have helped a good # of pple (not to mention the op saying "it might not be for everyone" iirc)
And what is about 5 goons against 5 tanks ? How do you attack the tanks? And how do you split the goons best ? And as fast as possible !? Thanks for your answers Well Bersis = Zealots sorry about that. Its in the german Version Berserker=Zealot
What exactly is this "spamming" you are speaking of? I think people uses it so vaguely without really thinking of what it means. "Spamming" also has uses, ie checking on your units and getting information, like if your opponent passes by some of your units, information you maybe would have missed if you wouldn't have checked (spammed? :/) on your units.
Basically no good player with high APM spam away just to get high APM or whatever your talking about. There is a reason why people use alot of hotkeys and circle through them, something which you perhaps aren't good enough of a player to get. No offense
I'm around 270-320 APM and if I would play slower I would miss out on so much stuff in my game and would play so much worse. I also play Terran and I think it requires more actions than let's say protoss in PvT and thus more APM; laying spider mines, siegeing/unsiegeing tanks, scanning, stimming etc.
Where do you draw the line between "spamming" and "spamless" APM?
Where do you draw the line between "pros" and "non-pros"?
It's all too vague
shows us 2-3 reps? I'm interested in how non-koreans achieve high apm.
from my experience, no two APMs are created equal. One person's 300 apm does not equal another person's 300 apm even when you factor out things like strategy and game sense.
i've seen many non-koreans get 300 apm but their macro can be no better than someone who has 220-240. as someone who averaged 270 for a long time I notice that my game was even better when I dropped down to 220. But I still would like to have the 300 apm, as long as it's not just not the numbers.
so if you have some reps please share so that I may analyze.
Um, just get any rep of some gosu non-koreans? Most of them have APM in the higher areas.
APM is just not macro, actually I would define it as "control" (however vague that may be). High apm usually means that you have a high level of control, meaning you can do alot of stuff at once, macro/micro, check on your units, react fast and so on. Many times faster players can simply outplay slower ones just because they can't keep up with the speed and the pace stuff is happening.
Yeah someone with 240 apm can be better than someone with 300 of course, but 240 is in the "acceptable" range too. It's race dependant as well; toss players can have lower apm and still be on top of their game for instance.
You know how pros almost always notice when their opponent passes by some of their units quickly, well that is due to APM in most cases since the reason they see it is because they flip through their units and it also keep them on their toes and they are ready to react fast as hell.
On a funny sidenote, I wonder what APM Mondragon had in that game vs Dreiven where he totally missed his expo at 1. Quite the silly mistake at that level
On May 20 2008 23:15 bosse wrote: And what is about 5 goons against 5 tanks ? How do you attack the tanks? And how do you split the goons best ? And as fast as possible !? Thanks for your answers Well Bersis = Zealots sorry about that. Its in the german Version Berserker=Zealot
TBH you cant solve that problem with this training alone. But with this training its gonna be 10 goons vs 5 tanks if u know what i mean
This training alone WILL NOT cause you to be No. 1 in icc in 3 weeks. This practice alone is to build mechanics and to improve macro and apm. Higher apm allows higher levels of multitasking and gives you the ability to use higher level strategies. Even if I was good enough to micro 5 goons vs 5 tanks, its useless in the long run if after the micro battle that i won OMG WTF I HAVE 3K MINERALS!!!111 Then out of nowhere your opponent comes up with 5 more tanks and you dont have the next 5 goons in line which were supposed to be building while you were microing.
Sure micro can win battles. Sure you need to understand the game a lot better if you expect to reach at least B- on icc. This SC practice was meant not to train you to do that but to train you to be able to do that. Its no use knowing all the ins and outs of SC if you're not fast enough to do any of them.
Edit: sry man, i thought u were complaining bout the practice
The point of this exercise is to build up your speed so when you start playing at a higher level, your hands are coordinated and fast enough to execute quickly without fucking up.
It's just like doing basketball exercises like in this video:
You'll rarely do something like that in an actual game, but the exercises build solid mechanics that you can then incorporate into your game.
APM increases when you have more things to do. The reason this exercise helps people, is because it forces them to find things to do, when they might otherwise be lazy and be happy with what they already know. Think of a 60 APM newbie. It's not because they're so slow at StarCraft that they have a low APM, it's just that they don't know all the things they could be doing.
Cycling through your army hotkeys (ie: 1234123412341234123412341234) is not useless spam, for one reason: when you're busy macroing your base, if you're spamming that at the same time, you'll respond much quicker than someone who isn't already spamming that. It takes away that second of thinking "Hey, I'm under attack, I should press 1, 1, to get to my army and start microing," because you're already pressing 1 before you've even though of it, so all you need to do is press 1, one more time (and since your mind is already on it from constantly spamming, this is faster too).
Without cycling army hotkeys, I'm fairly certain that it's actually impossible to reach 300 apm. I know that it's the only way I can get up there, but usually I'm too lazy to do that outside of my first army, and end up with apms in the 150-200 range (which is enough to play the rest of the game fluently).
I always jump around all over checking on shit. It gives me a sense of control and makes me play much better. Besides, like you say, you react so much faster when your cycling your hotkeys.
On May 21 2008 05:13 PsycHOTemplar wrote: Cycling through your army hotkeys (ie: 1234123412341234123412341234) is not useless spam, for one reason: when you're busy macroing your base, if you're spamming that at the same time, you'll respond much quicker than someone who isn't already spamming that. It takes away that second of thinking "Hey, I'm under attack, I should press 1, 1, to get to my army and start microing," because you're already pressing 1 before you've even though of it, so all you need to do is press 1, one more time (and since your mind is already on it from constantly spamming, this is faster too).
And I think training yourself to be able to handle the cycling is one of the hardest things to do T_T
On May 21 2008 04:53 ArC_man wrote: The point of this exercise is to build up your speed so when you start playing at a higher level, your hands are coordinated and fast enough to execute quickly without fucking up.
I like this exercise. I think it's great for noobs like myself. Basically after playing 3 games against the comp I've increased my APM from 50-95.
-Keeping minerals below 300 or at least trying to has really made me faster and my build orders tighter. I can get mutas out by 7:15 now rather than 9:00 or more when I first started. Keeping gas low is easy but I still find it hard to keep the minerals under 2000 when I'm in mid-game using lurkers/defilers and I have 3 bases all together. Keeping in mind that I'm still playing computers, now against much tougher AI. (I plan on working my way up, from Entropy, to Raccine 3.0, to 2-3 Raccine 3.0 opponents and finally to bnet and iccup until I can get the basic mechanics down.)
-Trying to get 300 APM forces me to DO something. Check the opponents health, rotate through my hives, check on my army etc. This has improved my multitasking, my larvae count for each hive usually is 1-2 now constantly, rather than 3 for 1-2 minutes.
This the best exercise I think I've ever done for starcraft. It's increased my APM from 110 to roughly 200. My macro is definitely better now and Im going to keep doing this untill I can play well at a high APM.
Well, thinking about if this exercise actualy works or not, to see if I should try it for myself I had several thoughts.
Since it is learning something there are enough analogies to take from other areas, you have to find the right one. Reading a book as fast as you can won't really help you learning it's content, but that would only apply to the strategical side. Only with using strategies in different situations against different players will help you find out when they work, when they don't etc. But this is not what this exercise is aimed at anyway. Of course this is aimed at pure hand-eye coordination for increasing your mechanics. Something very similar is learning an instrument, specifically guitar or piano. Obviously, flailing on the strings or keys won't bring you anywhere, but neither does doing the same to your keyboard. Repeated practice gives you the ability to play faster. Speed here should come from good technique. So you start slowly, specifically playing with a good technique. By repeating then you can go faster and faster without getting sloppy. Of course you might try to play fast right away and get decent at it. But once you got a suboptimal technique (for example using only downstrums on the guitar) its hard to break you habbits, and you will most likely have to start slow again to learn the better technique (alternate picking).
The big question is, does this apply to BroodWar (or RTS in general)?
To answer that, we have to think about good and bad techniques in Starcraft. They do exist. With a lot of training you might be able to move your army around without using hotkeys pretty fast, but a person using hotkeys still has the possibility to do it faster and more efficient. Hotkeying or not hotkeying your army is a very obvious example but there are some technical things like hotkeying your army, moving your screen or hand positions on the keyboard. It is, however, quite hard to tell, if using the arrow keys to scroll or 2 handed keyboard macro are inferior to the standard ways. A lot might just be personal preference, maybe better for one and worse for another situation. This is most likely complex enough for a diploma thesis.
So, let's pretend the player uses the best technique to do something in every situation he is in. What is the best way to learning a specific technique? There are two possible ways to learn it: -Going fast directly to get fast with it quickly. -Go slow first to get a clean technique first and then increasing the speed. I'll take myself on 1a2a3a4a5a6a as an example. If I were to move my terran ball around, I would very often miss one or two groups. While with going fast I screwed up somewhere, I could of course find the group I missed, but couldn't really tell where I went wrong (my main problem was keeping leftclick down too long, so the next group would not be selected). So I played 2 matches with only myself on an empty map and started moving the army around first very slowly, to get it down flawlessly, and then increasing the speed. I believe this way of learning your mechanics, you will end up with better mechanics later on. However, this is more work than the going rapidly method, and if you want to improve fast, and don't care that much at beating the persons on the power rank, going fast right away might be the better way to go.
A question that comes up is, does it even matter? Do the Korean pros do something like this? Do some of them go for one and some for the other way?
I'm really glad that my experiences are helping players I have finally gotten back to starcraft after a year of break haha
If anyone has any questions or anything that needs to be clarified feel free to ask ^^ It is really nice to hear that I am helping starcraft players improve
If you would like, I can also clarify what the purpose of this exercise is. I feel that some members have misunderstood my intentions. Thanks
Hehe imo the only thing you could do to make this more challenging/harder is doing exactly what BlueIris has prescribed but also using one worker to kill the computers CC. Very difficult to do but very beneficial hehe
On June 09 2008 14:22 Plexa wrote: Hehe imo the only thing you could do to make this more challenging/harder is doing exactly what BlueIris has prescribed but also using one worker to kill the computers CC. Very difficult to do but very beneficial hehe
That's a freakin fantastic idea for an addition.
When PvTing being able to multitask not just keeping the probe alive but killing the scv building the building is really helpful and can mess with their builds, and doing the exercise killing the CC while keeping alive the worker doing that really helps with that.
On June 09 2008 14:10 BlueIris wrote: Wow this has become quite an extensive post..
I'm really glad that my experiences are helping players I have finally gotten back to starcraft after a year of break haha
If anyone has any questions or anything that needs to be clarified feel free to ask ^^ It is really nice to hear that I am helping starcraft players improve
If you would like, I can also clarify what the purpose of this exercise is. I feel that some members have misunderstood my intentions. Thanks
Do you actually attack the computer, or just sit and amass units whilst keeping your mineral count low?
Well, I attacked the computer to a certain extent.
I made sure that I am always microing a unit(s) whether that be a probe or a group of dragoon/zealot. I expanded and challenged myself to meet the macro requirements. You will want to mass units and attack as to keep your psi count low in order to continue to practice making units.
Hm this seems very interesting BlueIris, I am 140 apm toss, 150 apm terran, 170 apm zerg, I will try this and see where i get to ^^ Be back in 2 weeks lol
Well I thought I'd try this out. I never bothered trying it when it was first posted, but it seems my apm isn't improving quickly anymore.
My first game againt the comp was freaking annoying as hell. I normally average around 180-200 but this game i spammed up to 311! Keeping mins below 300 isn't even in my mind atm.
For me the problem is comp always go same strats like Protoss always will do all those Zeals and arrive at some point, Zerg turtle... i dled Entropy but I could mess up something or maybe I should activate it somehow? Yes I did install it If there is anyone who wants to train macro with D/D- 85-105 APM Zerg it would be very appreciated If you can create games it would be great even more
I usually play around 120-130apm against people so figured this could help me. However I felt like playing perfect macrowise and only had 151 apm, like nothing I could do better. Of course there's no micro element when playing against comp zerg, you don't have to dodge lurkers or defend against mutas, but with 150apm I was able to make a decent m&m+tank attack on two fronts (one non-existent) at once and making some m&m drops and expanding with proper defense while never holding over 300 minerals or gas. But it's never that easy against player who makes defilers, scourges and/or lurkers, basically keeping you microing nonstop if attempting to attack, therefor hurting macro. I don't see a way to act like this was happening when playing comp.
On June 28 2008 14:02 Ouga wrote: I usually play around 120-130apm against people so figured this could help me. However I felt like playing perfect macrowise and only had 151 apm, like nothing I could do better. Of course there's no micro element when playing against comp zerg, you don't have to dodge lurkers or defend against mutas, but with 150apm I was able to make a decent m&m+tank attack on two fronts (one non-existent) at once and making some m&m drops and expanding with proper defense while never holding over 300 minerals or gas. But it's never that easy against player who makes defilers, scourges and/or lurkers, basically keeping you microing nonstop if attempting to attack, therefor hurting macro. I don't see a way to act like this was happening when playing comp.
Overmacro. You should be able to keep your apm at 300 if you're at enough rax's/etc even with minimal micro involved. That's the whole point of the exercise: to work to get your apm and macro above what you currently naturally feel is adequate.
On June 10 2008 06:55 BlueIris wrote: Well, I attacked the computer to a certain extent.
I made sure that I am always microing a unit(s) whether that be a probe or a group of dragoon/zealot. I expanded and challenged myself to meet the macro requirements. You will want to mass units and attack as to keep your psi count low in order to continue to practice making units.
It is really personal preference
AIs are way too easy...a nice old timing push after their first initial attack will bag them usually. But I will try the exercise, sounds good
aw, i've been doing this regimen for about 5 months now.. hehe from 120 to 140 to 160 to 180 apm.. but i'm still not satisfied.. so better start exercising now!
BlueIris is actually correct.. computer can really be dull at times when you play them all day and all night.
But the good thing about playing computer is that it will not de-moralize you..
Example: I got beaten by my officemate.. our actual record will be 1-4 I 1 win him 4 wins against me..
that de-moralize be real bad..
But when I started playing the computer and started watching how progamers make 200 units within 14 to 16 minutes (how they strategize against certain match ups) that inspired me alot to keep getting faster at the same time balance the memorization of builds in order for me to increase my APM.
Anyway, my point:
if you memorize all the building process on certain matchups = APM will increase because you don't need to think about it.. It will come naturally like some one posted earlier..
On August 27 2008 16:15 Djabanete wrote: If you read any bit of the thread you'll see a lot of people saying that this exercise has helped them play better. It's helped me too, actually. QED?
You are suggesting that bad exercise doesn't help?
You are learning something you don't need. And then you try to adapt it into proper play. It just doesn't make sense.
I mean, forcing your APM to be above whatever number, what does that actually mean? You could just hold down the 1 key. Also, one could just mass repeatedly click. All ways to create artificial APM. But this doesn't help your multitasking a single bit.
Hotkeying all over the map does help. One may also do that. But it's better to make an exercise that focuses on that entirely.
So now you can spam like crazy and get a high APM. But you will play horribly because of it. And then your normal play is still the same. Now you need to fuse the two styles, the two states of mind, into each other. Then weed out the bad habits you learned yourself. And then you spend a lot of time focusing on one aspect of play and you are still getting owned by noobs doing silly things because you don't know how to scout it, how to respond, how to read their intention. You still have no sense of strategy or tactics whatsoever.
On August 27 2008 16:28 H_ wrote: Are people seriously still saying "this is terrible" "no this is good" WHEN THIS WAS BROUGHT UP IN TWO THOUSAND AND FUCKING SEVEN
Yeah, someone made a classic example of an annoying bump. But now people read it in 2008. I don't see your point.
On August 27 2008 18:34 BlackStar wrote: You are learning something you don't need. And then you try to adapt it into proper play. It just doesn't make sense.
Isn't that weird? And yet I played better after doing this exercise. Yay for anecdotal evidence.
I think an UMS map for this exercise would be cool. Any map-makers out there want to give it a shot? I would be glad to try if someone could teach me how to use the editor (or point me in the direction of some good guides for it).
omfg I have no idea how you did this, I mash the fuck out of my keyboard, I go insane, and my apm is only 130. Its gone up by like 15. I cant keep my apm up, and my minerals, as always, skyrocket. The only change is im sloppy as fuck and cant get my build order right what so ever.
Edit: Though in only two games ive noticed way better drone saturation. Guess I was 'cutting' drones on accident all this time because I simply wasn't fast enough.
On December 29 2008 10:08 Dazed_Spy wrote: omfg I have no idea how you did this, I mash the fuck out of my keyboard, I go insane, and my apm is only 130. Its gone up by like 15. I cant keep my apm up, and my minerals, as always, skyrocket. The only change is im sloppy as fuck and cant get my build order right what so ever.
Way to necro a thread.
All it takes is practice, just practice each aspect individually, then slowly put them together.
On December 29 2008 10:08 Dazed_Spy wrote: omfg I have no idea how you did this, I mash the fuck out of my keyboard, I go insane, and my apm is only 130. Its gone up by like 15. I cant keep my apm up, and my minerals, as always, skyrocket. The only change is im sloppy as fuck and cant get my build order right what so ever.
Way to necro a thread.
All it takes is practice, just practice each aspect individually, then slowly put them together.
Well, isn't the guidelines of TL to necro a thread instead of making a new one? Oh well. I'm trying to get good at speed first, hopefully with speed ill be able to keep up with troop production. Here goes another 2 hours @_@.
On December 29 2008 10:22 naonao wrote: Seems this is second time this thread has been necroed.
But this seems to be at least a fun exercise, I think I'll try it some time.
It isnt fun what soever. The results are interesting though.
Edit: in two hours ive gone from avg 100 apm to avg 160 apm, and my macro actually has picked up drastically as a result. GJ blue iris. Does he still frequent these boards?
I need help. My APM is very very low, I don't have much experience with RTS', or PC games for that matter. I downloaded a real time APM counter and BWChart, and my apm is averaging like 35. From reading around, i realized that is REALLY REALLY low. (Note: I just got starcraft about a week ago)
Help?
Edit: After reading the last page I realized 'necroing' a thread might be kinda looked down on. Well, this board gives me a ten day waiting period before I can make threads, so I replied to this one.
On February 23 2009 05:53 Kcub07 wrote: I need help. My APM is very very low, I don't have much experience with RTS', or PC games for that matter. I downloaded a real time APM counter and BWChart, and my apm is averaging like 35. From reading around, i realized that is REALLY REALLY low. (Note: I just got starcraft about a week ago)
Help?
Edit: After reading the last page I realized 'necroing' a thread might be kinda looked down on. Well, this board gives me a ten day waiting period before I can make threads, so I replied to this one.
get some korean replays (preferably progamers or top amateurs), and try to do what they do without falling behind. I guarantee your APM will go above 35 :D
Usually such low apm is caused by not knowing what to do next. You have to stop and think or guess, and you lose time that way. So try and study some builds and learn them to the point you dont really have to think about them
Adding to fusionsdfs advice you should check out the recommended threads in the strategy forum and read some of the guides there so you have a better idea what to do. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=86665 has links to lots of quality commentated first person VODs, you should watch some as a first-person view shows more than a replay can.
If you are completely new to SC you may want to play the campaign first if you haven't done so yet. Be aware that the computer does a lot of things no decent human player would do and the maps are nothing like modern macro maps.
The melee AI is really bad, if you want to play a somewhat normal game against the computer you should go to http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=80272¤tpage=All, download and play against the Entropy II, still not that good but it gets the right units in most matchups and can be a decent challenge for new players.
This exercise isn't so much about training you to do "realistic" tasks but just getting you in the routine of doing standard StarCraft motions...getting your hands to move at a proper speed and knowing what to click are certain times.
sorry for the crazy bump...I took this exercise as a "learn" how to macro" I figure the faster I can do it the more time I can focus on strategy/micro. I know the exercise itself isn't realistic because there is no pressure what so ever but if I perfect it then adding pressure in increments shouldn't be a problem and I won't lose to D- players anymore
Actually having a D/D+ rank in iCCup sort of tells that you have the basic understanding of the build orders, timings, micro tricks and the like..
wait, people bumped this for apm discussion...what.
APM is not really a players concern, it goes up as a player is able to multitask more. Usually its the macro tricks like pimping scvs, keeping minerals low, which eventually leads to gateway/tech timing and keeping an eye on the supply count, that raise the apm. Then scouting, microing in battle's would also eventually add in the equation. But seriously, I think APM is nothing more than a number that tells you how much you can spam, just keep a close look in your eapm instead.
On February 25 2009 22:04 Infinity.SkyLark wrote: Usually its the macro tricks like pimping scvs, keeping minerals low, which eventually leads to gateway/tech timing and keeping an eye on the supply count, that raise the apm. Then scouting, microing in battle's would also eventually add in the equation. But seriously, I think APM is nothing more than a number that tells you how much you can spam, just keep a close look in your eapm instead.
I pimp my SCVs, but my APM is only like 120. Seriously though, I think this exercise could help a fair bit, maybe if you focus on the keeping minerals down. I might try it out for a bit.
i dont give a rat's ass about apm... I do give a rat's ass about having more units than my opponent and I care tremendously about having a constant stream of reinforcements. I didn't do it for the pretty number.
On February 25 2009 22:04 Infinity.SkyLark wrote: Actually having a D/D+ rank in iCCup sort of tells that you have the basic understanding of the build orders, timings, micro tricks and the like..
wait, people bumped this for apm discussion...what.
APM is not really a players concern, it goes up as a player is able to multitask more. Usually its the macro tricks like pimping scvs, keeping minerals low, which eventually leads to gateway/tech timing and keeping an eye on the supply count, that raise the apm. Then scouting, microing in battle's would also eventually add in the equation. But seriously, I think APM is nothing more than a number that tells you how much you can spam, just keep a close look in your eapm instead.
I agree for the most part when you get the hang of the game your speed goes up, but I have friends who've played the game and know the builds but still only have 60 APM. APM is a state of mind - for some (I know Chill said this before) if you tell yourself to move faster you do move faster, but for others, who are just slow most of the time, they do need practice to get the hang of moving faster.
i have a few questions, if this isn't too late of a response to this post. 1. does the spamming help you multitask, because i can't multitask very well (always forgetting other hatcheries, etc.) 2. will this help in using units like defilers/queens? i never use them, and i feel that if i do, i can do a lot better.
Srry to bump this but.. I stumbled on this a couple months back.. Tried it for couple days.. major improvement in Macro due to this!!! thanks for the guide.. I play sc2
I had some friends that got into SC2 and I told them about spam and to practice spamming vs. the computer and they thought it was the stupidest thing in the world. I told them to spam as hard as they could and stay under 500 and all they could say was that I was stupid and that even in VODs you see pros go over 1000.
They can say whatever they want, they can suck as much as they want...forever silver/gold/plat. Don't even know why they bother to ask me.
well you dont need to spam or have over 100 apm to be masters/diamond
oh and screw the sc2 talk in our lovely bw section, lets not pollute it. i dont see anyone else talking about hello kitty online here so why shall we do this sc2 talk while there are some sections above just for it
I have done this on my own before, but slightly differently. I would say that the OP's method is more affective than mine for the first timer. I would only play 1-2 games a day about 3-4 days a week. I would try reaching 200+ apm each time. After about a month or so I was able to maintain 200 apm without any trouble, was thinking faster, and moving much faster. After not doing it for like 3 months, my APM has died down to around 180, so you may want to do the exercise consistently.
I think I will try the OP's method to try to get from 180 to 300 apm. Thanks for the necro post!
By the way, this helps immensely in WC3 and SC2. In wc3 I manage around 250 APM thanks to this technique, and around 180ish in SC2. I think ti definitely helps, but there is no guarantee that this APM is needed for WC3 or SC2, unlike BW.
Thanks for the necro, I had been looking for something just like this. My speed's been the weakest part of my play for a long time, but til now I kept reading that practice and game-grinding were the only ways to get faster. Starting at 143 avg apm, we'll see where I end up!
EDIT: did 1-2 games (15-20min each) of a dumbed-down version of this everyday for 6 days. I used keyboard keys (goal was to start using them) for my 250apm, but didn't bother with keeping resources down. spent less than 3 hours total, but holy fuck at the improvement.
I finally use hatch keys, have a hotkey setup I'm happy with, and play at over 200apm. My macro is many times better too. Fuck yes.
Interesting post. When I started as a Zerg player over 10 years ago, the first rule one of my friends gave me was "never let your money go over 300." Because of this, I would always treat it as a huge emergency if my money ever got higher than that, immediately spending everything regardless of what was going on in the game. Looking back, I think this one recommendation/rule from my friend really shaped the type of player I am now.
I don't understand how an eAPM of over 250 is even possible, unless you're doing two reaver drops while expanding. But over the course of an entire game...?
EPT
(my normal active apm is 150-180 with the occasional games above and below)
. So this should probably work well with me. Its simple and logical.
) so you have to take care of all your bases constantly.
