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Another thing to consider: The further you go back the less techniques have been discovered. So there was a learning(copy)- curve. The game must have been "simpler" to play back in the days
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On May 09 2018 10:49 Golgotha wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2018 19:01 SCWes wrote:
Why aren't they fixing the problem with the mouse clicking stopping the keyboard from working. It's so difficult to macro and micro at high APM speeds. In addition some people experience different levels of frustration with this depending on the keyboard/mouse they use sent they have different actuation times. It's difficult going back and forth between SC and SCII, since SCII doesn't have this problem. It should at least be an option for players they can turn on/off in their settings, so they can play with the feel that best suits them. This wasn't a problem when we could use MCA64 Launcher because it had the plugin for it that got rid of it. Without it, it makes the game so difficult to control in the late game when you are constantly microing, macroing, and bouncing around the map. It does suck but you can get used to it. And bw and sc2 can't be changed to make it easy to go from one to the other. That would not make sense. Really, you can get used to the mouse input and keyboard input thing. Hang in there
Why can't it be changed? Why does it not make sense? I have played over 1000 games on SC RM, and I am still not used to it; especially since I go back and forth between the games.This issue comes down to feel/comfort and equipment you use. They added custom hotkeys to BW (a change that does make it easier to go between the games) which makes it more comfortable. I can now have hotkeys that match my SCII hotkeys. If we want to promote SC RM, especially by getting new players from the SCII community this should at least be an option that can be toggled on/off.
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On May 09 2018 08:57 10dla wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2018 08:54 WGT-Baal wrote:On May 09 2018 08:33 10dla wrote:On May 09 2018 08:03 WGT-Baal wrote:On May 08 2018 22:10 10dla wrote:On May 08 2018 15:19 SchAmToo wrote:Nice beginning changes. Hopefully they lock one account = one ladder account. Tired of playing 30 smurfs a day  They wont do that. That was the Brood War experience. And they said they dont want to change the way brood war was played. When i was new on Shield Battery and looked for new player, i instantly got 15 year old TL accounts pretending they are "d-" as well in my games I got a pretty old TL accound and I m like D+/C- may be in the old iccup system (not even that in PvZ). On sb you could ask for advice and all. I played faust, naugrim and TT1 sometimes because nobody else was on and needless to say I got reckt but I learnt a lot from those games and they were very helpful. You can also see me getting destroyed quite regularly in the STPL because my team is short a player and we dont like to give wo because it s sad. But there is always something to learn. Granted if every single game is that way it s not fun, I agree, but one account = one ladder is dumb. At the very least there should be 3, one for each race. I m P, I like to play z for fun but i cant keep up at my P MMR obviously. Also what if I want an account to try new things? A ladder is a competition, the league system is not like in soccer where you play other teams in the same league and (mostly) same level, it is only an icon based on your MMR. Like Tennis if you will, you are rank 5000 and you play Federer? Well too bad, but if you dont aim for the top why do you play the ladder then? there are plenty of custom games around. I m sorry if this sounds harsh, it is not my intention, once again I understand your point but I disagree with it. And i dont think people intentionally tanking their MMR to trash "noobs" are a majority, especially given the state of the scene. A good way around this is automated tournament like SC2 has (had?), and in that case search the whole bnet account for the highest rank of that person (which is easy to do for Blizzard) and then allow players based on that. I guess it would be fair. You wouldnt be able to play your offrace in those for practice but it s a necessary sacrifice in my opinion, wouldnt you agree? EDIT: so after reading the OP I launched 1.16.1 on one screen and sc r on another and no, the SD graphics are not the same, scr SD graphics are inferior. No its cool, the way you guys handle matchmaking is obviously the way to go. Just look at all the growth! I did say the state of the scene is bad, it s a 20yrs old game. SC2 had that one bnet account/one ladder account, and a region lock to boot at launch. (I couldnt play with my US friends anymore unless I bought a 2nd copy of the game during WOL). Numbers are dwindling there too, the ladder is pretty messy as well, there is no magical system. You can have several system in place though, which is why I talked about the automated tournament one, I am honestly trying to discuss possible solutions, but you are just whining. But fine one account each, how does it work then? is there a MMR decay? If there is let s say I m going on vacations and then when I come back I ll get a couple easy wins right, how is that different from a smurf? No MMR decay? Then if you dont have resets once in a while (which just recreate the problem really) the MMR will be so spread out the matchmaking system will need to go and look at huge span of MMR to match you with anyone, and we are back to the same issue. Any MMR based system needs several games to settle, so we could set a hard max limit of games played then so if you are MMR 1000 and played 300games it s more your "true"level as opposed to someone with like 5games that could be a smurf. But then what would stop people from becoming freelosers, thrashing lower ranked players and just leaving the game to get the loss nonetheless. So then what? A report system with replays? But we both know it s not worth it for Blizzard on such an old game. If you want to play with people that are exactly your skill on a fairly regular basis, the best is to either join a team or try to add/pm the people you play with on the ladder that are actually that level. Of course blizzard needs to make the UI easier for that but that would be good. That s how most of us started back in the old days before we had any ladder, this would also help the community stay alive. Having welcoming teams is good, regardless of skill and it s always better to play with people you know or just chat once in a while right? So then what we really need is blizzard to help develop the community aspect with a working friend list, may be a clan list, hey why not even some form of clan recruiting system? I am interested in your opinion if you have something constructive to say. Also please do not imply I have any power over what blizzard does, if I did there wouldnt have been a SCR at all. But I do knwo a couple things about community sites and ladders. Numbers are dwindling? Starcraft 2 numbers are all going up. Ladder being messy? Cant you generalize it any more? In thousands of games i never had the feeling that someone is 200 apm above me and completely crushing me. Starcraft 2 ladder was never a problem in terms of fair matchmaking. Unless you get "Byun". What are the odds? And once in a while, matchmaking is going to have brainfart and put 3 leagues difference together. Shit happens. But there is no need for: "Hey i dont feel like playing people on my level....LETS GO NEW ACCOUNT!". And that shit happens especially in Brood War, since its very taxing to play. Paywall is just perfect to prevent that. It doesnt take much more. Keeps the majority of people honest You guys have to stop with the: "Thats how we used to it!". No one cares
I have over 5k games in sc2. When i was diamond a while back in wol and hots I played people who were high masters and then low plat even high gold. Sure I had nearly a 50% WR but the reason I started playing less in sc2 is because of that. Now you can argue the end of Hots was not the best of time balance wise, and I fully agree, but a lot of my friends around low diam/high plat had the exact same experience.APM is a useless number, some ppl with 200 are so bad it s beyond me, and i got matched against 300+ on sc2 too, lsot some , won some.
I hadnt touched lotv in over a year because I dont like it (that s beside the point). A friend wanted to play so I went to play a couple games on ladder to remember the new units (new to me that is, since i hadnt played LOTV much) I went 21-1. Played people below 70apm (while apm is not a good metric, there is a minimum). Bnet started me against bronze players then placed me silver 3. Took those 22 games to go to plat 2 and then i just gave up because it wasnt fun. What do you think those players felt like? "damn another smurf'' I didnt even pick my main race i just randomed.
And the numbers I saw are dwindling, check the pc bang stats in Korea for a reliable metric if you do not believe me but i dont know about the foreign scene so I accept I can be wrong about that.
"Hey i dont feel like playing people on my level....LETS GO NEW ACCOUNT!" : I never said that, in fact I actually agreed with you that this sucks. And also I dont want the newcomers to SCR to have to go through all the pain old schoolers had to, like going 0-100. That s why I talked about the automated tournament, the MMR check on all accounts (it s still only one BNet account for all the SC R ones, since you do have to pay 15$), and generally trying to offer solutions. You are right that the game was more a mess back in the old days and as such easier to play. There were also more people so you would find more interesting game in the sense that you d see crazy weird strategies. And overall the social aspect was more present, though everysingle time i joined FRA-1 it was to be greeted with (fairly creative tbh) insults and slurs, so is that really a loss? I do not know.
And in general I find the SC community fairly nice and you can ask for help on the forum or even online. For once if I can I would gladly help you, though the odds are we d be evenly matched or you may very well pwm me easily, there is the strategy forum too, and Shield Battery had that family feeling to it as well. You can pm me if you want and I ll gladly give you my bnet account details. There is also the practice partner thread if you dont want to play with me for whatever reason and it s perfectly fine. We are all a big family after all and I am happy that new blood is coming in and wants to enjoy the game. But from there to arguing that everything sucks and all would be magical by having a single account is something I guess we ll have to disagree on, but that s ok, to each their own experiences and ideas. 
EDIT: by the way I agree with the above post, it d be great if they fixed the mouse/keyboard issue...
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lol. “The point of the game is to get better!” And yet all of the people telling me that are the better people. Ask around any newbs are tired of how many smurfs there are. MMR 1400-1700 is wild variant between people literally who never played to people who are Smurfs.
Don’t tell me how to enjoy my game and train, don’t feed me this frat hazing BS of how you also went through it. Ladder is draining because I never get an idea if I’m improving or not because my MMR goes 1700->1400->1600->1390->1750.
The ladder is broken, Smurf’s are no fun, and it leaves us newer people frustrated af. People come in my stream all the time complaining they keep getting 400apm perfect BO smurfs at 1500 and they just quit laddering.
Losing 15 games as a newer player to finally be at 1200 is an AWFUL new player experience.
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On May 09 2018 11:58 SCWes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2018 10:49 Golgotha wrote:On May 08 2018 19:01 SCWes wrote:
Why aren't they fixing the problem with the mouse clicking stopping the keyboard from working. It's so difficult to macro and micro at high APM speeds. In addition some people experience different levels of frustration with this depending on the keyboard/mouse they use sent they have different actuation times. It's difficult going back and forth between SC and SCII, since SCII doesn't have this problem. It should at least be an option for players they can turn on/off in their settings, so they can play with the feel that best suits them. This wasn't a problem when we could use MCA64 Launcher because it had the plugin for it that got rid of it. Without it, it makes the game so difficult to control in the late game when you are constantly microing, macroing, and bouncing around the map. It does suck but you can get used to it. And bw and sc2 can't be changed to make it easy to go from one to the other. That would not make sense. Really, you can get used to the mouse input and keyboard input thing. Hang in there Why can't it be changed? Why does it not make sense? I have played over 1000 games on SC RM, and I am still not used to it; especially since I go back and forth between the games.This issue comes down to feel/comfort and equipment you use. They added custom hotkeys to BW (a change that does make it easier to go between the games) which makes it more comfortable. I can now have hotkeys that match my SCII hotkeys. If we want to promote SC RM, especially by getting new players from the SCII community this should at least be an option that can be toggled on/off.
Because sc2 and bw are two very different games. There are many things in sc2 that you can't do in BW. That's why things like selecting more than twelve units and multiple building select will never be in brood war, even though that would make it much easier for sc2 players to play brood war.
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On May 09 2018 21:16 Golgotha wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2018 11:58 SCWes wrote:On May 09 2018 10:49 Golgotha wrote:On May 08 2018 19:01 SCWes wrote:
Why aren't they fixing the problem with the mouse clicking stopping the keyboard from working. It's so difficult to macro and micro at high APM speeds. In addition some people experience different levels of frustration with this depending on the keyboard/mouse they use sent they have different actuation times. It's difficult going back and forth between SC and SCII, since SCII doesn't have this problem. It should at least be an option for players they can turn on/off in their settings, so they can play with the feel that best suits them. This wasn't a problem when we could use MCA64 Launcher because it had the plugin for it that got rid of it. Without it, it makes the game so difficult to control in the late game when you are constantly microing, macroing, and bouncing around the map. It does suck but you can get used to it. And bw and sc2 can't be changed to make it easy to go from one to the other. That would not make sense. Really, you can get used to the mouse input and keyboard input thing. Hang in there Why can't it be changed? Why does it not make sense? I have played over 1000 games on SC RM, and I am still not used to it; especially since I go back and forth between the games.This issue comes down to feel/comfort and equipment you use. They added custom hotkeys to BW (a change that does make it easier to go between the games) which makes it more comfortable. I can now have hotkeys that match my SCII hotkeys. If we want to promote SC RM, especially by getting new players from the SCII community this should at least be an option that can be toggled on/off. Because sc2 and bw are two very different games. There are many things in sc2 that you can't do in BW. That's why things like selecting more than twelve units and multiple building select will never be in brood war, even though that would make it much easier for sc2 players to play brood war.
So the game has to be artificially harder to be compelling. How pathetic. And this has nothing to do with actual gameplay. You might as well slow the mouse down just to make the game harder
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On May 09 2018 22:05 10dla wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2018 21:16 Golgotha wrote:On May 09 2018 11:58 SCWes wrote:On May 09 2018 10:49 Golgotha wrote:On May 08 2018 19:01 SCWes wrote:
Why aren't they fixing the problem with the mouse clicking stopping the keyboard from working. It's so difficult to macro and micro at high APM speeds. In addition some people experience different levels of frustration with this depending on the keyboard/mouse they use sent they have different actuation times. It's difficult going back and forth between SC and SCII, since SCII doesn't have this problem. It should at least be an option for players they can turn on/off in their settings, so they can play with the feel that best suits them. This wasn't a problem when we could use MCA64 Launcher because it had the plugin for it that got rid of it. Without it, it makes the game so difficult to control in the late game when you are constantly microing, macroing, and bouncing around the map. It does suck but you can get used to it. And bw and sc2 can't be changed to make it easy to go from one to the other. That would not make sense. Really, you can get used to the mouse input and keyboard input thing. Hang in there Why can't it be changed? Why does it not make sense? I have played over 1000 games on SC RM, and I am still not used to it; especially since I go back and forth between the games.This issue comes down to feel/comfort and equipment you use. They added custom hotkeys to BW (a change that does make it easier to go between the games) which makes it more comfortable. I can now have hotkeys that match my SCII hotkeys. If we want to promote SC RM, especially by getting new players from the SCII community this should at least be an option that can be toggled on/off. Because sc2 and bw are two very different games. There are many things in sc2 that you can't do in BW. That's why things like selecting more than twelve units and multiple building select will never be in brood war, even though that would make it much easier for sc2 players to play brood war. So the game has to be artificially harder to be compelling. How pathetic. And this has nothing to do with actual gameplay. You might as well slow the mouse down just to make the game harder
those things are not simply to make the game harder. the game would look completely different if you could select 100 supply of units. bw is very different from sc2 because of these things and that is why many of us enjoy it. It's not just an artificial difficulty. I do agree that the input canceling is annoying, and I wouldn't mind if they changed it, but I can see why they won't.
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On May 09 2018 22:33 Golgotha wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2018 22:05 10dla wrote:On May 09 2018 21:16 Golgotha wrote:On May 09 2018 11:58 SCWes wrote:On May 09 2018 10:49 Golgotha wrote:On May 08 2018 19:01 SCWes wrote:
Why aren't they fixing the problem with the mouse clicking stopping the keyboard from working. It's so difficult to macro and micro at high APM speeds. In addition some people experience different levels of frustration with this depending on the keyboard/mouse they use sent they have different actuation times. It's difficult going back and forth between SC and SCII, since SCII doesn't have this problem. It should at least be an option for players they can turn on/off in their settings, so they can play with the feel that best suits them. This wasn't a problem when we could use MCA64 Launcher because it had the plugin for it that got rid of it. Without it, it makes the game so difficult to control in the late game when you are constantly microing, macroing, and bouncing around the map. It does suck but you can get used to it. And bw and sc2 can't be changed to make it easy to go from one to the other. That would not make sense. Really, you can get used to the mouse input and keyboard input thing. Hang in there Why can't it be changed? Why does it not make sense? I have played over 1000 games on SC RM, and I am still not used to it; especially since I go back and forth between the games.This issue comes down to feel/comfort and equipment you use. They added custom hotkeys to BW (a change that does make it easier to go between the games) which makes it more comfortable. I can now have hotkeys that match my SCII hotkeys. If we want to promote SC RM, especially by getting new players from the SCII community this should at least be an option that can be toggled on/off. Because sc2 and bw are two very different games. There are many things in sc2 that you can't do in BW. That's why things like selecting more than twelve units and multiple building select will never be in brood war, even though that would make it much easier for sc2 players to play brood war. So the game has to be artificially harder to be compelling. How pathetic. And this has nothing to do with actual gameplay. You might as well slow the mouse down just to make the game harder those things are not simply to make the game harder. the game would look completely different if you could select 100 supply of units. bw is very different from sc2 because of these things and that is why many of us enjoy it. It's not just an artificial difficulty. I do agree that the input canceling is annoying, and I wouldn't mind if they changed it, but I can see why they won't.
Stop mixing physical restriction with gameplay restriction together. You are using the m+k block as a balance tool. Which is just insane. Unit selection can be seen as a balance act
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On May 09 2018 14:39 SchAmToo wrote:
lol. “The point of the game is to get better!” And yet all of the people telling me that are the better people. Ask around any newbs are tired of how many smurfs there are. MMR 1400-1700 is wild variant between people literally who never played to people who are Smurfs.
Don’t tell me how to enjoy my game and train, don’t feed me this frat hazing BS of how you also went through it. Ladder is draining because I never get an idea if I’m improving or not because my MMR goes 1700->1400->1600->1390->1750.
The ladder is broken, Smurf’s are no fun, and it leaves us newer people frustrated af. People come in my stream all the time complaining they keep getting 400apm perfect BO smurfs at 1500 and they just quit laddering.
Losing 15 games as a newer player to finally be at 1200 is an AWFUL new player experience.
Yes. I m around 1700 and i regularly get totally smashed that way, especially during the korean hours (late canadian evenings). Global matchmaking in that regard screws it up.
But i m not smurfing, i just can't make it past 1800 for the life of me. Sometimes i get horrible losing streaks and get back to almost 1500, but with 100+ games in my account.
It is not fun for a true newcomer to face ppl like me at 1500 right off the bat I agree. But I dont see a lot of options. I dont think having a single account would change that.
So what do you propose? May be some sort of selection the first time and you d get placed at, say, 1000MMR with a check across all your bnet account that you played less than X games (that number can be adjusted by blizzard). I would totally support that. Or do you have other options? Like I said earlier I agree the system is far from perfect but I raised valid (imho) questions about how it would work and some pitfalls of a sc2-style system.
If you have some ideas to address that then by all means do express them. I will be the first to spam the battle.net forums for blizzard to change for a better system, it s good to have a discussion going on about it since there very clearly is an issue with the current system on top of a hard entry barrier, and it shouldn't be that way. But we need a well thought-out process to submit, not a pitchfork raising and finger pointing exercice.
Have a good day
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On May 09 2018 22:38 10dla wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2018 22:33 Golgotha wrote:On May 09 2018 22:05 10dla wrote:On May 09 2018 21:16 Golgotha wrote:On May 09 2018 11:58 SCWes wrote:On May 09 2018 10:49 Golgotha wrote:On May 08 2018 19:01 SCWes wrote:
Why aren't they fixing the problem with the mouse clicking stopping the keyboard from working. It's so difficult to macro and micro at high APM speeds. In addition some people experience different levels of frustration with this depending on the keyboard/mouse they use sent they have different actuation times. It's difficult going back and forth between SC and SCII, since SCII doesn't have this problem. It should at least be an option for players they can turn on/off in their settings, so they can play with the feel that best suits them. This wasn't a problem when we could use MCA64 Launcher because it had the plugin for it that got rid of it. Without it, it makes the game so difficult to control in the late game when you are constantly microing, macroing, and bouncing around the map. It does suck but you can get used to it. And bw and sc2 can't be changed to make it easy to go from one to the other. That would not make sense. Really, you can get used to the mouse input and keyboard input thing. Hang in there Why can't it be changed? Why does it not make sense? I have played over 1000 games on SC RM, and I am still not used to it; especially since I go back and forth between the games.This issue comes down to feel/comfort and equipment you use. They added custom hotkeys to BW (a change that does make it easier to go between the games) which makes it more comfortable. I can now have hotkeys that match my SCII hotkeys. If we want to promote SC RM, especially by getting new players from the SCII community this should at least be an option that can be toggled on/off. Because sc2 and bw are two very different games. There are many things in sc2 that you can't do in BW. That's why things like selecting more than twelve units and multiple building select will never be in brood war, even though that would make it much easier for sc2 players to play brood war. So the game has to be artificially harder to be compelling. How pathetic. And this has nothing to do with actual gameplay. You might as well slow the mouse down just to make the game harder those things are not simply to make the game harder. the game would look completely different if you could select 100 supply of units. bw is very different from sc2 because of these things and that is why many of us enjoy it. It's not just an artificial difficulty. I do agree that the input canceling is annoying, and I wouldn't mind if they changed it, but I can see why they won't. Stop mixing physical restriction with gameplay restriction together. You are using the m+k block as a balance tool. Which is just insane. Unit selection can be seen as a balance act
we got it, sc2 is the best,you are in the wrong forum
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On May 10 2018 00:08 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2018 22:38 10dla wrote:On May 09 2018 22:33 Golgotha wrote:On May 09 2018 22:05 10dla wrote:On May 09 2018 21:16 Golgotha wrote:On May 09 2018 11:58 SCWes wrote:On May 09 2018 10:49 Golgotha wrote:On May 08 2018 19:01 SCWes wrote:
Why aren't they fixing the problem with the mouse clicking stopping the keyboard from working. It's so difficult to macro and micro at high APM speeds. In addition some people experience different levels of frustration with this depending on the keyboard/mouse they use sent they have different actuation times. It's difficult going back and forth between SC and SCII, since SCII doesn't have this problem. It should at least be an option for players they can turn on/off in their settings, so they can play with the feel that best suits them. This wasn't a problem when we could use MCA64 Launcher because it had the plugin for it that got rid of it. Without it, it makes the game so difficult to control in the late game when you are constantly microing, macroing, and bouncing around the map. It does suck but you can get used to it. And bw and sc2 can't be changed to make it easy to go from one to the other. That would not make sense. Really, you can get used to the mouse input and keyboard input thing. Hang in there Why can't it be changed? Why does it not make sense? I have played over 1000 games on SC RM, and I am still not used to it; especially since I go back and forth between the games.This issue comes down to feel/comfort and equipment you use. They added custom hotkeys to BW (a change that does make it easier to go between the games) which makes it more comfortable. I can now have hotkeys that match my SCII hotkeys. If we want to promote SC RM, especially by getting new players from the SCII community this should at least be an option that can be toggled on/off. Because sc2 and bw are two very different games. There are many things in sc2 that you can't do in BW. That's why things like selecting more than twelve units and multiple building select will never be in brood war, even though that would make it much easier for sc2 players to play brood war. So the game has to be artificially harder to be compelling. How pathetic. And this has nothing to do with actual gameplay. You might as well slow the mouse down just to make the game harder those things are not simply to make the game harder. the game would look completely different if you could select 100 supply of units. bw is very different from sc2 because of these things and that is why many of us enjoy it. It's not just an artificial difficulty. I do agree that the input canceling is annoying, and I wouldn't mind if they changed it, but I can see why they won't. Stop mixing physical restriction with gameplay restriction together. You are using the m+k block as a balance tool. Which is just insane. Unit selection can be seen as a balance act we got it, sc2 is the best,you are in the wrong forum
Now thats a pathetic move. You arent even trying to argue
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On May 09 2018 21:16 Golgotha wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2018 11:58 SCWes wrote:On May 09 2018 10:49 Golgotha wrote:On May 08 2018 19:01 SCWes wrote:
Why aren't they fixing the problem with the mouse clicking stopping the keyboard from working. It's so difficult to macro and micro at high APM speeds. In addition some people experience different levels of frustration with this depending on the keyboard/mouse they use sent they have different actuation times. It's difficult going back and forth between SC and SCII, since SCII doesn't have this problem. It should at least be an option for players they can turn on/off in their settings, so they can play with the feel that best suits them. This wasn't a problem when we could use MCA64 Launcher because it had the plugin for it that got rid of it. Without it, it makes the game so difficult to control in the late game when you are constantly microing, macroing, and bouncing around the map. It does suck but you can get used to it. And bw and sc2 can't be changed to make it easy to go from one to the other. That would not make sense. Really, you can get used to the mouse input and keyboard input thing. Hang in there Why can't it be changed? Why does it not make sense? I have played over 1000 games on SC RM, and I am still not used to it; especially since I go back and forth between the games.This issue comes down to feel/comfort and equipment you use. They added custom hotkeys to BW (a change that does make it easier to go between the games) which makes it more comfortable. I can now have hotkeys that match my SCII hotkeys. If we want to promote SC RM, especially by getting new players from the SCII community this should at least be an option that can be toggled on/off. Because sc2 and bw are two very different games. There are many things in sc2 that you can't do in BW. That's why things like selecting more than twelve units and multiple building select will never be in brood war, even though that would make it much easier for sc2 players to play brood war.
Those things are completely different from the change I am talking about. Those things reduce the skill needed for the game. The issue here is the game simply can't keep up with the speed and decision making of the user. We want the game to reflect the true speed of the player, but instead a quicker user is punished, resulting in poor micro/macro.
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I think there is definetly room to improve the ladder experience, BUT esp those regions with bad con to KR have difficulties to populate enough. EU has barely 24k Ladder Accounts (needless to say its NOT the unique number).
To the matter of input canceling. This was most certainly a limitation of the technology back in the day (or maybe just a bug initially). But it also increases the skill cap, because you have to execute your actions not just fast but also cleanly. When I started 1-2 months after Remaster release i practiced it and Im now totally used to it. Its not a super big deal imo.
I would rather see they fix the freezing units bug.
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On May 10 2018 00:29 SCWes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2018 21:16 Golgotha wrote:On May 09 2018 11:58 SCWes wrote:On May 09 2018 10:49 Golgotha wrote:On May 08 2018 19:01 SCWes wrote:
Why aren't they fixing the problem with the mouse clicking stopping the keyboard from working. It's so difficult to macro and micro at high APM speeds. In addition some people experience different levels of frustration with this depending on the keyboard/mouse they use sent they have different actuation times. It's difficult going back and forth between SC and SCII, since SCII doesn't have this problem. It should at least be an option for players they can turn on/off in their settings, so they can play with the feel that best suits them. This wasn't a problem when we could use MCA64 Launcher because it had the plugin for it that got rid of it. Without it, it makes the game so difficult to control in the late game when you are constantly microing, macroing, and bouncing around the map. It does suck but you can get used to it. And bw and sc2 can't be changed to make it easy to go from one to the other. That would not make sense. Really, you can get used to the mouse input and keyboard input thing. Hang in there Why can't it be changed? Why does it not make sense? I have played over 1000 games on SC RM, and I am still not used to it; especially since I go back and forth between the games.This issue comes down to feel/comfort and equipment you use. They added custom hotkeys to BW (a change that does make it easier to go between the games) which makes it more comfortable. I can now have hotkeys that match my SCII hotkeys. If we want to promote SC RM, especially by getting new players from the SCII community this should at least be an option that can be toggled on/off. Because sc2 and bw are two very different games. There are many things in sc2 that you can't do in BW. That's why things like selecting more than twelve units and multiple building select will never be in brood war, even though that would make it much easier for sc2 players to play brood war. Those things are completely different from the change I am talking about. Those things reduce the skill needed for the game. The issue here is the game simply can't keep up with the speed and decision making of the user. We want the game to reflect the true speed of the player, but instead a quicker user is punished, resulting in poor micro/macro.
Yeah I hear you, the input canceling is annoying. but in the meantime, you can really overcome it quite easily with practice. it won't slow you down if you are a fast player. there are tons of other ways to outspeed your opponent. don't think that input-canceling each other out is holding you back or something. it really isn't. but i'm with you, i'd be happy if they fixed it.
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TLADT24920 Posts
I never toggled the input canceling option in mca64 even though I knew about it so I've personally gotten used to it lol. I do agree though, a fix wouldn't be a bad idea in this case.
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The reality of the matter is, if new blood cant handle a losing streak, or the inevitable variance of a small population match maker, they wouldnt last long in a stressful, high skilled game like bw anyway. "I lost a few games!! " Wut?
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On May 10 2018 03:20 Dazed. wrote:The reality of the matter is, if new blood cant handle a losing streak, or the inevitable variance of a small population match maker, they wouldnt last long in a stressful, high skilled game like bw anyway. "I lost a few games!! " Wut?
Great argument. Keep easy smurfing in the game. Do you want smurfing as a "gatekeeper" function? Or as a trial if you are worthy of playing brood war? And what does this have to do with M+K block?
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On May 09 2018 14:39 SchAmToo wrote:
lol. “The point of the game is to get better!” And yet all of the people telling me that are the better people. Ask around any newbs are tired of how many smurfs there are. MMR 1400-1700 is wild variant between people literally who never played to people who are Smurfs.
Don’t tell me how to enjoy my game and train, don’t feed me this frat hazing BS of how you also went through it. Ladder is draining because I never get an idea if I’m improving or not because my MMR goes 1700->1400->1600->1390->1750.
The ladder is broken, Smurf’s are no fun, and it leaves us newer people frustrated af. People come in my stream all the time complaining they keep getting 400apm perfect BO smurfs at 1500 and they just quit laddering.
Losing 15 games as a newer player to finally be at 1200 is an AWFUL new player experience.
Losing to the 100th different cheese is awful as well. Broodwar is on an extreme in terms of competitive gaming so buckle up kid. There is always fortnite.
The point is, for people who care about their performance, they don't care about their MMR so much as how they feel they are improving. Yeah MMR is a nice yard stick occasionally but it's like weight in weightloss, you don't measure everyday. For those who just want to win (BILL WHERE R U) then it's the wrong game, OR they won't mind tanking until they can easily win. I simply don't understand where you are coming from tbh.
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One idea I have is that if your MMR is 1500 or less, then your average APM should be added into the equation of how much your MMR drops or increases. While that won't eliminate smurfs, your "placement match" would put you in a more accurate rank. For example if you lose your first game and your APM is low (under 100) then your loss in MMR points should be greater.
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On May 10 2018 03:34 dark.matter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2018 14:39 SchAmToo wrote:
lol. “The point of the game is to get better!” And yet all of the people telling me that are the better people. Ask around any newbs are tired of how many smurfs there are. MMR 1400-1700 is wild variant between people literally who never played to people who are Smurfs.
Don’t tell me how to enjoy my game and train, don’t feed me this frat hazing BS of how you also went through it. Ladder is draining because I never get an idea if I’m improving or not because my MMR goes 1700->1400->1600->1390->1750.
The ladder is broken, Smurf’s are no fun, and it leaves us newer people frustrated af. People come in my stream all the time complaining they keep getting 400apm perfect BO smurfs at 1500 and they just quit laddering.
Losing 15 games as a newer player to finally be at 1200 is an AWFUL new player experience. Losing to the 100th different cheese is awful as well. Broodwar is on an extreme in terms of competitive gaming so buckle up kid. There is always fortnite. The point is, for people who care about their performance, they don't care about their MMR so much as how they feel they are improving. Yeah MMR is a nice yard stick occasionally but it's like weight in weightloss, you don't measure everyday. For those who just want to win (BILL WHERE R U) then it's the wrong game, OR they won't mind tanking until they can easily win. I simply don't understand where you are coming from tbh.
agreed, with ANY numerical rating system looking at rating day to day is pointless, there's way too much variance. It will just make you depressed seeing the +/- 300 swings.
Blizz still could do a much better job of improving the new player experience with placement matches (which I think they're adding soon to SCR).
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EPT
