EPTASL5 Round of 24 Maps - Page 3
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
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wander
Japan45 Posts
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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FlopTurnReaver
Switzerland1980 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6607 Posts
On February 28 2018 13:51 wander wrote: I watched Jaedong and some others play a few matches on Sparkle yesterday. The matches were really fun to watch. I can't say much about balance, but the potential strategies are exciting. Not often do you see queens used against HTs/sairs or maelstrom against dropships, etc. 22% winrate zvp in sponmatches on the new maps. | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
On March 01 2018 03:26 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: 22% winrate zvp in sponmatches on the new maps. What about ZvT? | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4238 Posts
On February 28 2018 11:19 orvinreyes wrote: To those whining about Sparkle, try to see how it benefits the BW scene. It brings back interest in the game, people expect some Boxer-like builds to come out from the map, compared to the usual super-optimized maps that may get boring quickly. ASL5 is gonna be sick! "Whining"? Are you kidding me, every single long time BW gamer will tell you that island maps put zerg at a big disadvantage. It has never been different, there's no reason to assume otherwise just because this map looks slightly different. The obstacles for zerg most likely can't be compensated with an extra vespene gas gayser, the issues go much deeper than that. Sparkle is a positional nightmare for zerg. There aren't even any big central platforms for hydras to walk around and threaten/protect expansions or block incoming air attacks. I know old island maps that were more balanced than this. "Benefits the BW scene"? By making zerg players lose by default? Flipping them off in the name of "boxer-like builds"? What does that even mean, it's not 2001 anymore. Everything at the top level is about maximum efficiency, balance must always have higher priority than strategic diversity, otherwise the worst-performing races will disappear from the progaming landscape. "ASL 5 is gonna be sick!" I highly doubt it. ASL5 is likely gonna feature only two races. Zerg probably won't survive. What's "sick" is that a popular vote overrules two decades of accumulated progaming knowledge. Conventional wisdom goes out the window thanks to fan request. Terrible. Now that I've thought about it I'm 100% convinced this decision must be overruled immediately. We must all protest the usage of any and all island maps in this ASL. NOW!! | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/GGpf1Aq.jpg) Is.... ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/7mpZLdb.jpg) Sparkle..! ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/qtsp1gG.jpg) But, joke aside, as fun as it is to see these exotic unit combinations that only really come into play on island maps (there was a Mini v Effort match today where Mini went scout and won) and to see 'toss eviscerate zerg, most matches I saw were one sided. It will definitely be exciting and interesting in the way extreme situations are. The balance was tilted and 'toss now has a chance to fly through the groupstages while Zerg faces an uphill battle. Terran probably wins, anyway. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6607 Posts
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CoL_DarkstaR
Germany649 Posts
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RWLabs
Korea (South)273 Posts
On March 01 2018 05:07 Magic Powers wrote: "Whining"? Are you kidding me, every single long time BW gamer will tell you that island maps put zerg at a big disadvantage. It has never been different, there's no reason to assume otherwise just because this map looks slightly different. The obstacles for zerg most likely can't be compensated with an extra vespene gas gayser, the issues go much deeper than that. Sparkle is a positional nightmare for zerg. There aren't even any big central platforms for hydras to walk around and threaten/protect expansions or block incoming air attacks. I know old island maps that were more balanced than this. "Benefits the BW scene"? By making zerg players lose by default? Flipping them off in the name of "boxer-like builds"? What does that even mean, it's not 2001 anymore. Everything at the top level is about maximum efficiency, balance must always have higher priority than strategic diversity, otherwise the worst-performing races will disappear from the progaming landscape. "ASL 5 is gonna be sick!" I highly doubt it. ASL5 is likely gonna feature only two races. Zerg probably won't survive. What's "sick" is that a popular vote overrules two decades of accumulated progaming knowledge. Conventional wisdom goes out the window thanks to fan request. Terrible. Now that I've thought about it I'm 100% convinced this decision must be overruled immediately. We must all protest the usage of any and all island maps in this ASL. NOW!! The irony is that most of the votes were from Zergs. Sure when Sparkle was a play-Zerg-or-you-lose map it was a breath of fresh air from Fighting Spirit and Circuit Breakers, but now that it's a reverse-advantage map it's some great catastrophe. If you really care so much about racial balance, where were you when Outsider, Andromeda, and Circuit Breakers were in the same map pool? Or when 4 Zergs were in the round of 8? Protoss getting slaughtered 8:2 in Outsider? Oh, well they just need to put in more effort. But Sparkle, that one map, will be the ruin of all Zergs. Now mind you, I'm against am island map of this size because I don't think that large island map games are generally that interesting. But instead of moaning about some perceived victimhood Zerg has, I'd think considering patches and/or strategies for the map would be more productive. | ||
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hiro protagonist
1294 Posts
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Magic Powers
Austria4238 Posts
On March 01 2018 08:58 RWLabs wrote: The irony is that most of the votes were from Zergs. Sure when Sparkle was a play-Zerg-or-you-lose map it was a breath of fresh air from Fighting Spirit and Circuit Breakers, but now that it's a reverse-advantage map it's some great catastrophe. If you really care so much about racial balance, where were you when Outsider, Andromeda, and Circuit Breakers were in the same map pool? Or when 4 Zergs were in the round of 8? Protoss getting slaughtered 8:2 in Outsider? Oh, well they just need to put in more effort. But Sparkle, that one map, will be the ruin of all Zergs. Now mind you, I'm against am island map of this size because I don't think that large island map games are generally that interesting. But instead of moaning about some perceived victimhood Zerg has, I'd think considering patches and/or strategies for the map would be more productive. There's no disadvantage in BW comparable to the zerg disadvantage on island maps. Zerg loses so many games on island maps against both the other races, it's not funny. Also, Andromeda? That map is not anti-toss, it's anti-terran. At least protoss is favored against terran to compensate for the 41% against zerg. On Outsider protoss at least has a 39% winrate against zerg. That's a far cry from what zerg typically has on island maps. And Circuit Breaker? Do you even look at the statistics? So far that's been a perfectly balanced map for all matchups. What a bad example, I must honestly wonder if you're just trolling. Protoss rarely has a reason to be angry about map choices. Protoss has a natural small disadvantage against zerg, and nothing can be done about it. But island maps have always been a nightmare for zergs, way more than most maps have been for protoss. The examples you gave are bad anyway and I shouldn't have to explain this stuff any deeper. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
note: tight map gives terran > toss > zerg open map gives zerg > toss > terran maybe island map has toss > zerg = terran ? i've brought this up before and can't quite remember what the argument was for making a map favored for toss as opposed to terran or zerg, perhaps someone can make a case for it | ||
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FlopTurnReaver
Switzerland1980 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/d8wmDGM.jpg) I realise that it's the worst matchup to showcase this! Then again, might also make for some new interesting playstyles | ||
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konadora
Singapore66201 Posts
On March 01 2018 12:03 FlopTurnReaver wrote: I kinda feel like this could be a bit of an issue.. + Show Spoiler + I realise that it's the worst matchup to showcase this! Then again, might also make for some new interesting playstyles its like HBR all over again lul | ||
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konadora
Singapore66201 Posts
map imbalance will ALWAYS exist, save for very few that have over time proven to be "balanced" aka fighting spirit. but its these imbalances that make the games exciting and new strategies to evolve. look at chupungryeong, destination, outsider, longinus, parallel lines.. if you guys all wanted "perfect balanced maps" all the time, brood war would not have gotten this far because every game would have been the same old shit. imbalance brings balance. | ||
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blabber
United States4448 Posts
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