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On March 09 2018 07:26 A.Alm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2018 07:23 Miragee wrote:On March 09 2018 07:11 Cryoc wrote:On March 09 2018 06:42 Miragee wrote:On March 08 2018 23:59 TaardadAiel wrote:On March 07 2018 17:51 [AS]Rattus wrote:
has anybody scouted scouts yet on Sparkle? I was thinking the same thing, scout air-to-air attack is theoretically pretty powerful against large units such as Devourers. Gotta watch the game! Even Air to Air scouts are mediocre considering their cost. Scouts have the highest air to air damage output in the game together with the carrier, hardly mediocre. That's not how things work though. There is splash in the game. Scouts are also slow as fuck. They got a range of 4. Even corsairs got a higher range. So their dmg output doesn't matter unless both parties move into melee range and then a-click... Scouts do well against devours. Carriers/Corsairs get a huge amount of their damage removed from 3 armor devours, while the scouts nearly do full damage. Scouts are also the fastest and 'most micro able' air unit protoss has. They are shit on normal maps, but they might be used quite a lot on Sparkle, esp lategame.
The most microable air unit for protoss is the carrier. Using the superior speed of scouts as an argument for how micro-able it is doesn't make much sense when it gets outranged by everything in the game.
Well, we will see if scouts going to be common as an addition for the late game protoss fleet. I personally doubt it because it's probably the single most shitty unit in the game but it wouldn't be the first time I'm wrong (I hope I am). 
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On March 09 2018 09:35 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2018 07:26 A.Alm wrote:On March 09 2018 07:23 Miragee wrote:On March 09 2018 07:11 Cryoc wrote:On March 09 2018 06:42 Miragee wrote:On March 08 2018 23:59 TaardadAiel wrote:On March 07 2018 17:51 [AS]Rattus wrote:
has anybody scouted scouts yet on Sparkle? I was thinking the same thing, scout air-to-air attack is theoretically pretty powerful against large units such as Devourers. Gotta watch the game! Even Air to Air scouts are mediocre considering their cost. Scouts have the highest air to air damage output in the game together with the carrier, hardly mediocre. That's not how things work though. There is splash in the game. Scouts are also slow as fuck. They got a range of 4. Even corsairs got a higher range. So their dmg output doesn't matter unless both parties move into melee range and then a-click... Scouts do well against devours. Carriers/Corsairs get a huge amount of their damage removed from 3 armor devours, while the scouts nearly do full damage. Scouts are also the fastest and 'most micro able' air unit protoss has. They are shit on normal maps, but they might be used quite a lot on Sparkle, esp lategame. The most microable air unit for protoss is the carrier. Using the superior speed of scouts as an argument for how micro-able it is doesn't make much sense when it gets outranged by everything in the game. Well, we will see if scouts going to be common as an addition for the late game protoss fleet. I personally doubt it because it's probably the single most shitty unit in the game but it wouldn't be the first time I'm wrong (I hope I am).
It has a place in the stove build that makes ir the best
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10387 Posts
I personally think that if one were to integrate scouts, they'd be used to snipe the devourers super quickly, and then let the corsairs clean house afterwards. They do so much damage in one shot, that the devourer debuff effect isn't nearly as crippling.
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Well, you can one-shot snipe maybe one or two Devourers, but it does not even matter much because the Devourers main job is to splash 9 Corrosive Spores on as many unit as quickly as possible, so if they get off one or two attacks each they have done their job. To counter Devourer specifically, Stasis or Maelstrom would be a lot better.
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On March 09 2018 16:20 ArvickHero wrote:
I personally think that if one were to integrate scouts, they'd be used to snipe the devourers super quickly, and then let the corsairs clean house afterwards. They do so much damage in one shot, that the devourer debuff effect isn't nearly as crippling.
I remember watching a funny game with larva vs some toss on sparkle, and larva had mutas devourers and queens trying to ensare and catch the sair/scout army and he miss microed and ensared his own mutas which were then destroyed by the sairs
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Bulgaria750 Posts
That is quite a lot of theorycrafting in individual unit encounters and carriers sure are a strong unit, but from what I've seen on Sparkle recently (meta is not a correct word I guess in such short timespans), protoss is on a clock. Yeah, you can possibly turtle to a third and get some carriers, but even with good exchanges, carriers are not too mobile and interceptor losses are inevitable, so it's a big economic burden, and carrier losses are unsurmountable. Plus they take forever to build to a reasonable number, so by the time you tech to carriers - presumably turtling - zerg already has an economic advantage AND has more time to upgrade. So in that sense I'm not sure if scout timing is more important than individual unit characteristics.
And I still suppose grabbing zerg air by the belt is a fine tactical solution to ensnare, plus it makes scourge cloning that much more difficult. But that's theorycrafting again and I actually play terran. If anyone has videos to make a point on either theory or has personal experience, please elaborate 
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As a Z, I love sparkle not because of the balance, but because it reminded me of the time when everyone was trying to beat 5 rax mech transition.
Desperation creates some crazy shit strategies.
Just saw jaedong hit a timing where he ensnared all corsairs and killed most of them with devourer mutas chasing them throughout the map.
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Bulgaria750 Posts
Flash just had an epic ~40 min game with larva with battecruisers (and every other air unit terran has).
I see what you mean, this map makes for some crazy sh!t games. There was a point where Flash's flotilla was splashed with every color of goo there is...
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Sparkle should have some random 1 unit islands everywhere so that z can plague burrow.
There I just fixed the map
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see guys island maps can be balanced (probably?) just gotta get creative with it
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okay seems like restoration is gonna finally see play at minimum to counter parasite
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On March 09 2018 22:32 duke91 wrote:
As a Z, I love sparkle not because of the balance, but because it reminded me of the time when everyone was trying to beat 5 rax mech transition.
what ended up being the play style to help against that?
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Sparkle makes for some hilarious and long games, it takes all the standard builds away. Wonder if ninja nukes are possible with all these islands.
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On March 10 2018 13:44 Disregard wrote:
Sparkle makes for some hilarious and long games, it takes all the standard builds away. Wonder if ninja nukes are possible with all these islands.
would be hard to pull off considering everyone spams, turrents, cannons and spores all over their expos
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On March 10 2018 14:44 Shock710 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2018 13:44 Disregard wrote:
Sparkle makes for some hilarious and long games, it takes all the standard builds away. Wonder if ninja nukes are possible with all these islands. would be hard to pull off considering everyone spams, turrents, cannons and spores all over their expos
there's unbuildable terrain on the islands just for this reason - you need a place to drop safely
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I didn't follow the whole conversation on this thread, but was anyone surprised at Light's build / follow up on Sparkle vs Shine?
Spoilers:
+ Show Spoiler +I don't see Terran losing when they go 2 port Wraiths into more CC / more air, later adding Valks into BCs / Vessel, few tanks to defend expansions with mass turrets.
All the pro games I have seen (streams, fpvods, etc.) where Terran goes for pure air, it just seems like Zerg cannot do anything, unless it's Larva playing out of his mind, and even then he either get crushed by 20 BCs or barely wins because of some clutch spell casting. I dunno. I feel like Terran doesn't have to commit to any big attack/drop until he has an "air deathball". That being said I don't know much about island maps (historically).
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On March 13 2018 08:38 crbox wrote:I didn't follow the whole conversation on this thread, but was anyone surprised at Light's build / follow up on Sparkle vs Shine? Spoilers: + Show Spoiler +I don't see Terran losing when they go 2 port Wraiths into more CC / more air, later adding Valks into BCs / Vessel, few tanks to defend expansions with mass turrets. All the pro games I have seen (streams, fpvods, etc.) where Terran goes for pure air, it just seems like Zerg cannot do anything, unless it's Larva playing out of his mind, and even then he either get crushed by 20 BCs or barely wins because of some clutch spell casting. I dunno. I feel like Terran doesn't have to commit to any big attack/drop until he has an "air deathball". That being said I don't know much about island maps (historically).
Light just didn't expand early enough to keep up with Shine. I think he got the wrong read on what Shine was doing. Shine went 4 hatch before pool, which gave him a massive economic advantage. After that he just kept expanding. I assume Light didn't think Shine opened that way the whole game and thought he would be fine if he destroyed some of Shines new bases to put Shine back on 3. Shine had way too much supply though because of the sick economy he had so he kept expanding and traded armies with Light until Light ran out of minerals.
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On March 13 2018 08:43 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2018 08:38 crbox wrote:I didn't follow the whole conversation on this thread, but was anyone surprised at Light's build / follow up on Sparkle vs Shine? Spoilers: + Show Spoiler +I don't see Terran losing when they go 2 port Wraiths into more CC / more air, later adding Valks into BCs / Vessel, few tanks to defend expansions with mass turrets. All the pro games I have seen (streams, fpvods, etc.) where Terran goes for pure air, it just seems like Zerg cannot do anything, unless it's Larva playing out of his mind, and even then he either get crushed by 20 BCs or barely wins because of some clutch spell casting. I dunno. I feel like Terran doesn't have to commit to any big attack/drop until he has an "air deathball". That being said I don't know much about island maps (historically). Light just didn't expand early enough to keep up with Shine. I think he got the wrong read on what Shine was doing. Shine went 4 hatch before pool, which gave him a massive economic advantage. After that he just kept expanding. I assume Light didn't think Shine opened that way the whole game and thought he would be fine if he destroyed some of Shines new bases to put Shine back on 3. Shine had way too much supply though because of the sick economy he had so he kept expanding and traded armies with Light until Light ran out of minerals.
Definitely. I feel like Light's build was pretty decent, but he like over-committed to drops while not expanding. What you said is pretty spot-on though, as I was watching I I remember Shine taking top left and 3 o'clock simultaneously while Terran stayed on two bases.
He did do some good damage with his drops, but that's pretty meaningless if you don't secure another expo. And then his Allin on Transistor was pretty questionable rofl.
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EPT
