On August 13 2017 16:48 letian wrote: Arbiters can do roughly everything that you claim corsairs can and even more for less money and effort. Therefore, arbiters are used in PvT for a reason. Your corsair strategy is only good as it is entertaining.
I still love the Arbiter, stasis is a very good spell. The only thing D-Web really has over stasis is that you can essentially nullify the entire tank line for a few seconds, which means less of your dragoons die, and you can accumulate a nice economic edge over time. Stasis can only hit so many tanks, and some Dragoons/Zealots must die to tanks in general if it's a straight engagement.
With regards to the Valkyries that I mentioned earlier, depending on how late in the game the Valkyries pop out, you can try to lure them into Dragoons, or if you're crazy, mind control several Valkryies with Dark Archons!
I think an interesting strategy could be in using dweb to just force the terran to lose ground and have to reposition while you expand; as long as you have sufficient ground army that they cant just walk forward, they *have* to walk backwards, and depending on the layout of the map, that might mean away from their 3rd/4th.
Should be less APM intensive than trying to throw down 15 dwebs in a fight while macroing, as you don't necessarily need to go in with everything after you dweb them, just the threat of it might even be enough to make them have to reposition.
This was a respone to Sasin opting for Ghosts when he scanned that Rain was going carriers. Rain went 2 stargate corsair with Dweb which essentially rendered the ghosts useless. It's not really a good measure on how viable it is against standard play (tank/vulture/few goliaths and a vessle).
Spoilers are irrelevant - hmm, someone's bumped an old thread discussing corsair use vT, I wonder if there's been a pro game this morning with corsair use vT. Nope, couldn't possibly happen ever, no
Not the mention the recently played game rain vs apmple, I believe I saw some pro used corsair in pvt in proleague long ago, may be 2010~2011, and the map is empire of the sun. The protoss sure suprised his opponent, but it was not really effective.
Corsairs are too expensive, disruption web duration is not great either. This is a nice counter strategy that can be executed as an answer to ghost with lockdowns which would be much more effective against arbiters. So, corsairs + dr.web is a counter strategy not the way of PvT. 3-5 arbiters with statis and recall are much more deadly for terran army than any corsair fleet will even be. Dark archon is just a joke in PvT unless you are a poor player.
On August 13 2017 16:48 letian wrote: Arbiters can do roughly everything that you claim corsairs can and even more for less money and effort. Therefore, arbiters are used in PvT for a reason. Your corsair strategy is only good as it is entertaining.
I still love the Arbiter, stasis is a very good spell. The only thing D-Web really has over stasis is that you can essentially nullify the entire tank line for a few seconds, which means less of your dragoons die, and you can accumulate a nice economic edge over time. Stasis can only hit so many tanks, and some Dragoons/Zealots must die to tanks in general if it's a straight engagement.
With regards to the Valkyries that I mentioned earlier, depending on how late in the game the Valkyries pop out, you can try to lure them into Dragoons, or if you're crazy, mind control several Valkryies with Dark Archons!
D-Web does not have anything over statis because it is more expensive in the first place. Its duration is much shorter and it does not stop terran army from unsieging and pushing. Therefore it is only good when you attack terran siege lines. When toss decides to attack sieged terran he is already ahead and just wants to minimize his losses. In such situation d-web is a good supporting spell. However, even here arbiter will be more efficient with cheaper statis spells and auto cloak unless terran has ghosts which can easily lockdown fewer number of arbiters.
One thing I noticed on that game was that when the AI chooses a target to fire, anything under D-web is considered lower threat, so dragoons don't shoot tanks affected unless there's nothing else to shoot. At least got that impression, should check it thoroughly.
Anyway, the issue is, zealots can't kill what's underneath d-web, goons seems to ignore it, and on top of that the spell hinders you if you want to push further into enemy lines or the terran retreats. It has many issues to be a viable strategy, only place I see d-web being worth it it's on zvp vs turtling zergs massing sunkens and lurkers.
tl:dr, its only good on specific maps where tanks will get clustered up for d-webs to be able to consistently catch like 2-3 tanks at a time and only a good one off build rarely used. its not a good standard. dont use sairs.
On September 19 2017 17:42 Plissken_2097 wrote: One thing I noticed on that game was that when the AI chooses a target to fire, anything under D-web is considered lower threat, so dragoons don't shoot tanks affected unless there's nothing else to shoot. At least got that impression, should check it thoroughly.
Anyway, the issue is, zealots can't kill what's underneath d-web, goons seems to ignore it, and on top of that the spell hinders you if you want to push further into enemy lines or the terran retreats. It has many issues to be a viable strategy, only place I see d-web being worth it it's on zvp vs turtling zergs massing sunkens and lurkers.
why wouldnt zelots be able to kill stuff under dweb?
On September 19 2017 18:53 FlaShFTW wrote: tl:dr, its only good on specific maps where tanks will get clustered up for d-webs to be able to consistently catch like 2-3 tanks at a time and only a good one off build rarely used. its not a good standard. dont use sairs.
Tanks always get clustered up, it's why stasis is so good.
A better tl;dr would be.
Dweb is only only really good on maps where there's lots of unbuildable terrain as the Terran can't turret up his tank lines and will unlikely have a lot of goliaths. Also to take into account is can you afford the supply for the corsairs, if you can and you have the APM to pull it off you can use Corsairs as a surprise tactic.
if the terran doesn't kill you before dweb can come into play, i believe that they can just mass expand and run you down with 10 facs. terran can hold a position with tanks and mines, but what kind of opposing army is a protoss going to make? you will have to make so many corsairs that you won't just run dry on energy at the wrong moment.
i don't think it's fun gameplay to have science vessels trying to hunt down dark archons or corsairs while goliaths are sitting behind to protect. it would be such a slow stalemate if it got to that point.
i really think a terran just timing pushes and kills you before any of that can properly take off.
in asl artosis/tastless pretty good explained why corsairs suck so hard in pvt ^^ u can only make 1 web and then u have to wait if u could make 2 it would be fine but with only 1, u have a to huge downtime
saying rain "owned" with web is a wrong standpoint. overall it wasnt rly good, t just went mass ghosts expecting carriers THATS what made it possible and still he lost alot units and had downtimes where arbiter and more zealots could haveb roken trough
On September 19 2017 20:10 Drake wrote: in asl artosis/tastless pretty good explained why corsairs suck so hard in pvt ^^ u can only make 1 web and then u have to wait if u could make 2 it would be fine but with only 1, u have a to huge downtime
saying rain "owned" with web is a wrong standpoint. overall it wasnt rly good, t just went mass ghosts expecting carriers THATS what made it possible and still he lost alot units and had downtimes where arbiter and more zealots could haveb roken trough
With energy upgrade you can have two d-webs on a single corsair tho.
Corsairs are good on specific situations, like in the Rain vs Ample game where Tastosis were talking about the matter (abandon the carrier plan when seeing ghosts produced). In standard game they are usually not the best choice, since they eat up your supply and the the cost of a single web is quite big. Also if they're scouted in time, even valkyries can be used to counter them.
Another underestimated advantage of arbiters over sairs is they can actually attack. Not only forcing goliaths but also inflicting a fair amount of damage when no goliaths are around.
EPT
