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On July 05 2017 16:54 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2017 04:10 ldv wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me how little this community can think critically.
There's no chance this project makes a profit. What it is, is a way to draw back older customers back to the Battle.net/Blizzard App platform. Blizzard doesn't make money selling SC:R, they make money when people come back, play some BW, see Overwatch and Heroes of the Storm in the Blizzard app and decide to try those. When those people play Hearthstone. I don't know how much you think this project is going to make, but it isn't enough to pay the salaries of the team of developers working on it, much less the infrastructure they're working on and the overhead of the project itself.
This isn't rocket science! They didn't say to themselves, "$15 per person and we'll all be filthy fucking rich!" They said "$15 will recoup some of this project's costs at a price point the average person over the age of 16 will find more than reasonable, and will also address some side concerns like smurfing and hacking."
This isn't some massive conspiracy to drain you all of your cough savings cough. It's extremely reasonably priced, not profit driven, and the complaining about it makes you all look like entitled god damn children. Why is this dude still allowed to post? Sitting in every post shitting on the entire community, look like as it were an "entitled god damn child" As for a 15$ price tag, i didnt expect it to be free, i was thinking 20 or 30 but 15 is 100% better than that.
Coming from a guy who has been banned seventeen thousand times. I guess you're the expert on what passes for reasonable TL posts.
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Sorry if it was mentioned before.
What about 2vs2 Matchmaking ? I'm a 2vs2 player and I wonder if there's gonna be ladder for that as well ?
If yes than what if my ally doesnt have remastered ? We wont be able to play ladder ?
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On July 05 2017 12:20 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2017 10:16 EsX_Raptor wrote:
It's their game. Not sure why people treat it like public property. there would never have been a shitstorm like this if they hadn't said MM's gonna be free.
tahts the beauty of humans, we can see that an idea we had is stupid and change it 
On July 05 2017 20:21 InDi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2017 01:30 Little-Chimp wrote:On July 04 2017 21:16 InDi wrote:The thing is, why should I pay for something that has been implemented by the community several times during the last 10 years for free? Iccup, Fish, Shit even GG.net launched his terrible ladder. 1.18 brings nothing to the gameplay, I am not even commenting on the graphics because... let's be honest, who cares. No big updates to the interface, the only appeal is to matchmake against koreans, which you could do already... and they charge 15$ for it? It is just another shitty policy by Blizzard trying to get money (which ofc is their goal) based on their best game. And the fact that they were shady about this matchmaking being not free, it was just to kill any non-official ladders. Everyone got hyped moved to 1.18 and cu later iccup Stick with those then, but pretty sure the majority of people will be using match making. You aren't forced to part ways with your hard earned 15 dollars I don't know why you are answering without any argument whatsoever, the point of this topic is to discuss why MM isn't free, I give my opinion, I don't care if its 15$ 500$ or 1$, the point is they let people believe it was going to be free, and now it is not. Let me ask you, why do you want to play SCR? Unless you care about graphics there is no point other than MM, can we agree on that? 99% of the players don't care about graphics, shit that's why we still play BW after 20 years. Now maybe you can understand why they moved their most expected feature from free to pay, and my point is, whoever buys SCR for MM, will be donating 15$ to Blizzard for something that has been implemented several times by the community for free.
1. ur not 99% people have to think their own oppinion is represented by 99%.
2. they said it because they believed it, then they saw its a bad idea (yes it is) and made it as featue for sc:RM (which i like they did because as i said its stupid to have it free)
3. i dont get why oldschool people who NOT WANT THIS ALL even care i mean u can continue play like before so whats teh problem ?
4. this is not to make money the whole project ... if u think they go rich by 15$ of some who wouldnt buy it otherwise, tehy would not have made it compatible ...
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"You're correct in assuming that matchmaking will not be included as part of 1.18. It is currently slated to be available to everyone once we release SC:R."
available doesn't mean its free right?
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On July 05 2017 22:01 ldv wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2017 16:54 arb wrote:On July 05 2017 04:10 ldv wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me how little this community can think critically.
There's no chance this project makes a profit. What it is, is a way to draw back older customers back to the Battle.net/Blizzard App platform. Blizzard doesn't make money selling SC:R, they make money when people come back, play some BW, see Overwatch and Heroes of the Storm in the Blizzard app and decide to try those. When those people play Hearthstone. I don't know how much you think this project is going to make, but it isn't enough to pay the salaries of the team of developers working on it, much less the infrastructure they're working on and the overhead of the project itself.
This isn't rocket science! They didn't say to themselves, "$15 per person and we'll all be filthy fucking rich!" They said "$15 will recoup some of this project's costs at a price point the average person over the age of 16 will find more than reasonable, and will also address some side concerns like smurfing and hacking."
This isn't some massive conspiracy to drain you all of your cough savings cough. It's extremely reasonably priced, not profit driven, and the complaining about it makes you all look like entitled god damn children. Why is this dude still allowed to post? Sitting in every post shitting on the entire community, look like as it were an "entitled god damn child" As for a 15$ price tag, i didnt expect it to be free, i was thinking 20 or 30 but 15 is 100% better than that. Coming from a guy who has been banned seventeen thousand times. I guess you're the expert on what passes for reasonable TL posts.
As someone who has been banned twice as much as him, I can tell you that the experience practically makes you an expert.
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On July 05 2017 15:02 BigFan wrote:
If they wanted to be complete assholes, they can easily affect the tournament scene (you can see this with ATB2 being so delayed!) and quite possibly, cause problems for fish, iccup and sb etc...
FWIW Blizzard has given ICCup problems in the past. That was not the case for SC:R, but we all know that it wasn't necessary. ICCup doesn't have the appeal, marketing and infrastructure anymore to compete with any official Blizzard server.
Fish on the other hand is a very well populated server, it has a very good reputation amongst koreans. There would've been a negative backlash if Blizzard had just tried to shut it out the way it was done with ICCup. Fish has been accepted as semi-official or at least supported server for SC:R and enjoys a limited independence.
ICCup made an official request to Blizzard in order to negotiate terms to become a gateway for SC:R That request was never replied to. Moreover, from my perception, the new layout with matchmaking being only available via SC:R, the launcher being required to play the game et cetera, it's pretty clear to me that Blizzard is trying to shut down the door towards private servers.
I'm ofc aware that it's perfectly fine to do so, legally and IP rights cover this clearly. Then again, this community has held the game upward and going for almost a decade where Blizzard Entertainment didn't do anything about it. And by community i mean the abstract mass of staff people, casters, writers, players, server staff etc. etc. over that time period all around the globe. If not for FISH, WGTour, ICCup, Teamliquid, gosugamers and all the people who contributed, this game would've been dead years ago. Most namely, if not for Kespa and the pro gamers, this game would've faded into oblivion a decade ago. If not for all the passionate fans, SC:R would hold no retail value. Blizzard is generating profit by that collective effort and i don't mind that inherently. They made this game great, but it wouldn't have been the best RTS + Show Spoiler + without the community.
I just think it would've been a sensible move to invite private servers into being SC:R compatible and to guarantee full compatibility between Broodwar and SC:R. Yes perhaps Blizzard would've sold less copies by doing the latter, but i can't say that i care.
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On July 05 2017 22:46 RCCar wrote:
"You're correct in assuming that matchmaking will not be included as part of 1.18. It is currently slated to be available to everyone once we release SC:R."
available doesn't mean its free right?
That's like saying everyone has a Ferrari available to them. You just gotta pay.
It's clear that it was meant to be free, even in the blue post he acknowledges it.
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On July 05 2017 23:17 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2017 22:01 ldv wrote:On July 05 2017 16:54 arb wrote:On July 05 2017 04:10 ldv wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me how little this community can think critically.
There's no chance this project makes a profit. What it is, is a way to draw back older customers back to the Battle.net/Blizzard App platform. Blizzard doesn't make money selling SC:R, they make money when people come back, play some BW, see Overwatch and Heroes of the Storm in the Blizzard app and decide to try those. When those people play Hearthstone. I don't know how much you think this project is going to make, but it isn't enough to pay the salaries of the team of developers working on it, much less the infrastructure they're working on and the overhead of the project itself.
This isn't rocket science! They didn't say to themselves, "$15 per person and we'll all be filthy fucking rich!" They said "$15 will recoup some of this project's costs at a price point the average person over the age of 16 will find more than reasonable, and will also address some side concerns like smurfing and hacking."
This isn't some massive conspiracy to drain you all of your cough savings cough. It's extremely reasonably priced, not profit driven, and the complaining about it makes you all look like entitled god damn children. Why is this dude still allowed to post? Sitting in every post shitting on the entire community, look like as it were an "entitled god damn child" As for a 15$ price tag, i didnt expect it to be free, i was thinking 20 or 30 but 15 is 100% better than that. Coming from a guy who has been banned seventeen thousand times. I guess you're the expert on what passes for reasonable TL posts. As someone who has been banned twice as much as him, I can tell you that the experience practically makes you an expert.
Its funny you say that cause i had to delete my original post and try again since i was 100% certain it'd result in a warning, and probably a ban at that.
On July 05 2017 23:17 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2017 15:02 BigFan wrote:
If they wanted to be complete assholes, they can easily affect the tournament scene (you can see this with ATB2 being so delayed!) and quite possibly, cause problems for fish, iccup and sb etc...
FWIW Blizzard has given ICCup problems in the past. That was not the case for SC:R, but we all know that it wasn't necessary. ICCup doesn't have the appeal, marketing and infrastructure anymore to compete with any official Blizzard server. Fish on the other hand is a very well populated server, it has a very good reputation amongst koreans. There would've been a negative backlash if Blizzard had just tried to shut it out the way it was done with ICCup. Fish has been accepted as semi-official or at least supported server for SC:R and enjoys a limited independence. ICCup made an official request to Blizzard in order to negotiate terms to become a gateway for SC:R That request was never replied to. Moreover, from my perception, the new layout with matchmaking being only available via SC:R, the launcher being required to play the game et cetera, it's pretty clear to me that Blizzard is trying to shut down the door towards private servers. I'm ofc aware that it's perfectly fine to do so, legally and IP rights cover this clearly. Then again, this community has held the game upward and going for almost a decade where Blizzard Entertainment didn't do anything about it. And by community i mean the abstract mass of staff people, casters, writers, players, server staff etc. etc. over that time period all around the globe. If not for FISH, WGTour, ICCup, Teamliquid, gosugamers and all the people who contributed, this game would've been dead years ago. Most namely, if not for Kespa and the pro gamers, this game would've faded into oblivion a decade ago. If not for all the passionate fans, SC:R would hold no retail value. Blizzard is generating profit by that collective effort and i don't mind that inherently. They made this game great, but it wouldn't have been the best RTS + Show Spoiler + without the community. I just think it would've been a sensible move to invite private servers into being SC:R compatible and to guarantee full compatibility between Broodwar and SC:R. Yes perhaps Blizzard would've sold less copies by doing the latter, but i can't say that i care.
One of the issues with Iccup in its current form imo is the port forwarding issue, which not being existent in 1.18 is incredibly nice. I dont expect SCR to revive it to its fullest extent(i hope it does though) But ill still certainly be playing it in the end regardless. Even if its with the old graphics, though i will go through the campaign one time with them of course.
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As long as Fish has the actual competitive "manual" ladder I won't care, and I probably won't buy the remaster. My opinion may seem constantly negative but it's not, it's just my honest opinion.
Am I not allowed to dislike the remastered version?
1. I don't like the graphics, I honest to god prefer the original graphics in every way.
2. I don't care for automated match making. It's going to constantly queue me up with people that have the same MMR as me (or queue me against people based on another similar metric). What if I actually want to go out of my way to play people that are better than me? Or maybe I want to practice a specific match up?
Besides, there are a couple of important questions that remain unanswered. How will turn rate work in regards to the automated match making? Will we be allowed to change it in-game? Will manually created one versus one games still exist? Or will only games done through automated match making count towards your ladder stats?
3. I don't like the new UI. Anything you want to do in the new UI takes more time and more clicks than it did in the old one.
4. Since they've shown to renege on the match making promise, who says they won't change their mind about other (small) things? Right now they're adding skins but supposedly they can be disabled by other players. Maybe they will have a sudden change of heart about this issue as well once it is clear they could more money this way.
It's a reasonable assumption, and one that scares me.
5. They've mishandled the implementation of 1.18 very badly by forcing tournaments to adopt it too early, forcing (?) fish to disable its 1.16 ladder, offering no native integration for iCCup (on the other hand, we already have too many servers...)
6. I would hate for all future tournaments to use the remastered graphics, hopefully there will be 2 streams, one dedicated to the original graphics.
7. Delivering a detrimental blow to the UMS scene by disabling (?) EUD action triggers (sorry I'm not very familiar with terminology or what it actually means).
8. No "innovative" features that would actually be cool:
A. I'm thinking about an integrated version switcher to be able to watch old replays.
B. Reconnecting to a game after being dropped (maybe this one is impossible without making it too tedious for your opponent)
C. Start game from a replay (Similar to the Sc2 feature).
D. Somehow reworking how observers work, so they can't cause the game to lag (something with the game waiting on them sending/receiving data). Don't know how feasible this would be of course.
E. Native custom AI integration? Play against the top bots available just by uploading their "files" instead of having to use BWAPI, chaoslauncher multiinstance, and the bots binaries/library files.
...
9. Questionable map editor support? Have we gotten an official statement that they are working on the editor as well?
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On July 05 2017 23:33 B-royal wrote:
Am I not allowed to dislike the remastered version?
1. I don't like the graphics, I honest to god prefer the original graphics in every way.
Cool.
2. I don't care for automated match making. It's going to constantly queue me up with people that have the same MMR as me (or queue me against people based on another similar metric). What if I actually want to go out of my way to play people that are better than me? Or maybe I want to practice a specific match up?
Get practice partners, like every single other game ever.
3. I don't like the new UI. Anything you want to do in the new UI takes more time and more clicks than it did in the old one.
False.
4. Since they've shown to renege on the match making promise, who says they won't change their mind about other (small) things? Right now they're adding skins but supposedly they can be disabled by other players. Maybe they will have a sudden change of heart about this issue as well once it is clear they could more money this way.
It's a reasonable assumption, and one that scares me.
They didn't promise anything. They don't owe you anything. They made a decision that differed from their original plan. Get over it.
5. They've mishandled the implementation of 1.18 very badly by forcing tournaments to adopt it too early, forcing (?) fish to disable its 1.16 ladder, offering no native integration for iCCup (on the other hand, we already have too many servers...)
What? They didn't force fish to disable 1.16, and why would they offer native integration for iCCup? iCCup didn't work with them to do it, while Fish did. If you don't know what's going on behind the scenes why are you offering this wild speculation?
7. Delivering a detrimental blow to the UMS scene by disabling (?) EUD action triggers (sorry I'm not very familiar with terminology or what it actually means).
Again, if you don't know what it means, why are you speculating and saying it's "delivering a detrimental blow" lol. The remastered map making tools aren't even out yet.
8. No "innovative" features that would actually be cool:
A. I'm thinking about an integrated version switcher to be able to watch old replays. You can already watch old replays. Jesus christ.
B. Reconnecting to a game after being dropped (maybe this one is impossible without making it too tedious for your opponent)
C. Start game from a replay (Similar to the Sc2 feature). You have had the abilit y to do this for 15 years.
D. Somehow reworking how observers work, so they can't cause the game to lag (something with the game waiting on them sending/receiving data). Don't know how feasible this would be of course.This has already been done in 1.18. Do you even play starcraft? Have you even used the new patch?
E. Native custom AI integration? Play against the top bots available just by uploading their "files" instead of having to use BWAPI, chaoslauncher multiinstance, and the bots binaries/library files.
9. Questionable map editor support? Have we gotten an official statement that they are working on the editor as well?
They have said there will be a new map editor.
Overall, you don't seem to know much about 1.18 or 1.16 for that matter, so what the absolute hell are you talking about?
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On July 05 2017 20:21 InDi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2017 01:30 Little-Chimp wrote:On July 04 2017 21:16 InDi wrote:The thing is, why should I pay for something that has been implemented by the community several times during the last 10 years for free? Iccup, Fish, Shit even GG.net launched his terrible ladder. 1.18 brings nothing to the gameplay, I am not even commenting on the graphics because... let's be honest, who cares. No big updates to the interface, the only appeal is to matchmake against koreans, which you could do already... and they charge 15$ for it? It is just another shitty policy by Blizzard trying to get money (which ofc is their goal) based on their best game. And the fact that they were shady about this matchmaking being not free, it was just to kill any non-official ladders. Everyone got hyped moved to 1.18 and cu later iccup Stick with those then, but pretty sure the majority of people will be using match making. You aren't forced to part ways with your hard earned 15 dollars I don't know why you are answering without any argument whatsoever, the point of this topic is to discuss why MM isn't free, I give my opinion, I don't care if its 15$ 500$ or 1$, the point is they let people believe it was going to be free, and now it is not. Let me ask you, why do you want to play SCR? Unless you care about graphics there is no point other than MM, can we agree on that? 99% of the players don't care about graphics, shit that's why we still play BW after 20 years. Now maybe you can understand why they moved their most expected feature from free to pay, and my point is, whoever buys SCR for MM, will be donating 15$ to Blizzard for something that has been implemented several times by the community for free.
When did the community include match making for free? Closest we got was shield battery but never got there yet iirc. That's awesome and all, but we can't pretend it's on the same level as Blizzard updating their own game.
My most anticipated feature is indeed the matchmaking service, exactly because it hasn't been done yet by the community. And yeah we arent entitled to it for free dude, get over it.
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On July 05 2017 23:43 ldv wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2017 23:33 B-royal wrote:
Am I not allowed to dislike the remastered version?
1. I don't like the graphics, I honest to god prefer the original graphics in every way. Cool. Show nested quote +
2. I don't care for automated match making. It's going to constantly queue me up with people that have the same MMR as me (or queue me against people based on another similar metric). What if I actually want to go out of my way to play people that are better than me? Or maybe I want to practice a specific match up?
Get practice partners, like every single other game ever. Show nested quote +3. I don't like the new UI. Anything you want to do in the new UI takes more time and more clicks than it did in the old one. False. Show nested quote +4. Since they've shown to renege on the match making promise, who says they won't change their mind about other (small) things? Right now they're adding skins but supposedly they can be disabled by other players. Maybe they will have a sudden change of heart about this issue as well once it is clear they could more money this way.
It's a reasonable assumption, and one that scares me. They didn't promise anything. They don't owe you anything. They made a decision that differed from their original plan. Get over it. Show nested quote +5. They've mishandled the implementation of 1.18 very badly by forcing tournaments to adopt it too early, forcing (?) fish to disable its 1.16 ladder, offering no native integration for iCCup (on the other hand, we already have too many servers...) What? They didn't force fish to disable 1.16, and why would they offer native integration for iCCup? iCCup didn't work with them to do it, while Fish did. If you don't know what's going on behind the scenes why are you offering this wild speculation? Show nested quote +7. Delivering a detrimental blow to the UMS scene by disabling (?) EUD action triggers (sorry I'm not very familiar with terminology or what it actually means). Again, if you don't know what it means, why are you speculating and saying it's "delivering a detrimental blow" lol. The remastered map making tools aren't even out yet. Show nested quote +8. No "innovative" features that would actually be cool:
A. I'm thinking about an integrated version switcher to be able to watch old replays. You can already watch old replays. Jesus christ.
B. Reconnecting to a game after being dropped (maybe this one is impossible without making it too tedious for your opponent)
C. Start game from a replay (Similar to the Sc2 feature). You have had the abilit y to do this for 15 years.
D. Somehow reworking how observers work, so they can't cause the game to lag (something with the game waiting on them sending/receiving data). Don't know how feasible this would be of course.This has already been done in 1.18. Do you even play starcraft? Have you even used the new patch?
E. Native custom AI integration? Play against the top bots available just by uploading their "files" instead of having to use BWAPI, chaoslauncher multiinstance, and the bots binaries/library files.
Show nested quote +9. Questionable map editor support? Have we gotten an official statement that they are working on the editor as well? They have said there will be a new map editor. Overall, you don't seem to know much about 1.18 or 1.16 for that matter, so what the absolute hell are you talking about?
Show me how to start a game from a replay please! Feature s been here for 15 years? I ve never seen it once. Jaedong vs Flash finals would have liked to know that too... WCG too. Nation wars, cl as well...
Point E (the bots) is a very good question imho.
I also dont lile the new UI or the 1.18 bnet looks and channels in general. Or how you make/look for game. It s cumbersome. But you could say it s a personal opinion. But you should not just dismiss it as you do by saying "false".
It would be interesting to see how the matchmaking system actually works as well. We ll see when we get more info.
Finding practice partners s not easy, but yeah for ladder games it shouldnt matter. For actual practice see my above two points. Again it s a personal preference in a way but you should be a little more understanding of other people s opinion.
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On July 06 2017 00:22 WGT-Baal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2017 23:43 ldv wrote:On July 05 2017 23:33 B-royal wrote:
Am I not allowed to dislike the remastered version?
1. I don't like the graphics, I honest to god prefer the original graphics in every way. Cool.
2. I don't care for automated match making. It's going to constantly queue me up with people that have the same MMR as me (or queue me against people based on another similar metric). What if I actually want to go out of my way to play people that are better than me? Or maybe I want to practice a specific match up?
Get practice partners, like every single other game ever. 3. I don't like the new UI. Anything you want to do in the new UI takes more time and more clicks than it did in the old one. False. 4. Since they've shown to renege on the match making promise, who says they won't change their mind about other (small) things? Right now they're adding skins but supposedly they can be disabled by other players. Maybe they will have a sudden change of heart about this issue as well once it is clear they could more money this way.
It's a reasonable assumption, and one that scares me. They didn't promise anything. They don't owe you anything. They made a decision that differed from their original plan. Get over it. 5. They've mishandled the implementation of 1.18 very badly by forcing tournaments to adopt it too early, forcing (?) fish to disable its 1.16 ladder, offering no native integration for iCCup (on the other hand, we already have too many servers...) What? They didn't force fish to disable 1.16, and why would they offer native integration for iCCup? iCCup didn't work with them to do it, while Fish did. If you don't know what's going on behind the scenes why are you offering this wild speculation? 7. Delivering a detrimental blow to the UMS scene by disabling (?) EUD action triggers (sorry I'm not very familiar with terminology or what it actually means). Again, if you don't know what it means, why are you speculating and saying it's "delivering a detrimental blow" lol. The remastered map making tools aren't even out yet. 8. No "innovative" features that would actually be cool:
A. I'm thinking about an integrated version switcher to be able to watch old replays. You can already watch old replays. Jesus christ.
B. Reconnecting to a game after being dropped (maybe this one is impossible without making it too tedious for your opponent)
C. Start game from a replay (Similar to the Sc2 feature). You have had the abilit y to do this for 15 years.
D. Somehow reworking how observers work, so they can't cause the game to lag (something with the game waiting on them sending/receiving data). Don't know how feasible this would be of course.This has already been done in 1.18. Do you even play starcraft? Have you even used the new patch?
E. Native custom AI integration? Play against the top bots available just by uploading their "files" instead of having to use BWAPI, chaoslauncher multiinstance, and the bots binaries/library files.
9. Questionable map editor support? Have we gotten an official statement that they are working on the editor as well? They have said there will be a new map editor. Overall, you don't seem to know much about 1.18 or 1.16 for that matter, so what the absolute hell are you talking about? Show me how to start a game from a replay please! Feature s been here for 15 years? I ve never seen it once. Jaedong vs Flash finals would have liked to know that too... WCG too. Nation wars, cl as well... Point E (the bots) is a very good question imho. I also dont lile the new UI or the 1.18 bnet looks and channels in general. Or how you make/look for game. It s cumbersome. But you could say it s a personal opinion. But you should not just dismiss it as you do by saying "false". It would be interesting to see how the matchmaking system actually works as well. We ll see when we get more info. Finding practice partners s not easy, but yeah for ladder games it shouldnt matter. For actual practice see my above two points. Again it s a personal preference in a way but you should be a little more understanding of other people s opinion.
The complaints about the 1.18 UI are so strange. It's just a reskin of the exact same user interface. There is absolutely ZERO FUNCTIONALITY CHANGE except the fact that they added turn rate. It's the same clicks, the buttons are just in different places. It's the same exact process to join or create a game. No change whatsoever.
And you can restart a game from a game save. Not from a replay, but how would that work, you start at the end of the replay? That seems only useful for continuing from dropped connections. Needless to say this isn't a 'innovative feature' it's a major addition to the game engine.
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God you are insufferable and have no clue what you're talking about. I will take extreme joy in replying to your post.
On July 05 2017 23:43 ldv wrote:
Cool.
Cool.
On July 05 2017 23:43 ldv wrote:Get practice partners, like every single other game ever.
Your sentence doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, maybe it's because of all the shitposting you do, taking the absolute minimum amount of time to reply to people.
In any case, as if that invalidates my argument? You didn't even understand my argument.
I was presenting a list of my complaints and aspects about the remastered that are currently stopping me from buying it. You telling me to get practice partners because I don't care for the match making as a selling point, is completely unrelated to the point at hand so. Anyway, how's your sex life?
False.
False.
1. While trying to login I get presented with a terms of agreement. Result: 1 extra click necessary to login.
2. They've added sliding windows animations where before there weren't any. Result? Extra time required to switch between menus.
2. Trying to create a game now forces me to click on the private button. If I want to browse for a map, I have to click the map folder. If I want to set turn rate, I have to click on the slider. This is already 3 extra clicks.
3. When arriving in the game lobby, I have to press twice to select my race. 1 extra click.
4. While browsing through folders, no way to use hotkeys to navigate. You have to click on Folders in the list because pressing enter doesn't do anything other than select one of the games/replays.
They didn't promise anything. They don't owe you anything. They made a decision that differed from their original plan. Get over it.
Arguing irrelevant semantics, not an argument. They stated match making was going to be free, they reneged on it. Did you even read my post? I don't give 2 shits about match making if Fish server keeps its manual ladder.
Of course you don't have anything to say about my concern about skins because you know it's a reasonable concern now. The precedent for reneging on previous statements has been set, and if Blizzard decides tomorrow to have another change of heart, skins will be impossible to turn off.
What? They didn't force fish to disable 1.16, and why would they offer native integration for iCCup? iCCup didn't work with them to do it, while Fish did. If you don't know what's going on behind the scenes why are you offering this wild speculation?
Yes they did. Blizzard has been in contact with the people responsible for the Fish server. It's obvious that one of the terms of agreement to offer native support for Fish was the termination of the 1.16 ladder so early in 1.18's development.
This is again obvious from the fact that blizzard also tried to force tournaments to 1.18 way before it was ready. How unsurprising though that you don't have an opinion about that.
iCCup has reached out to Blizzard whether they would also receive native support but there has been no reply from Blizzard's side.
Again, if you don't know what it means, why are you speculating and saying it's "delivering a detrimental blow" lol. The remastered map making tools aren't even out yet.
Sigh. It's called being humble. I'm not a programmer or a professional map maker. I don't know the details but I do know that EUD will not be supported any more and that it's a critical part of the UMS map making. It's Blizzard's job to put people at ease and state what they are working on to rectify this issue.
I'll paint a picture for you, using simple words.
1.18 NOT support EUD.
BUT 1.16 YES support EUD!!
1.16 GOOD for UMS scene
1.18 BAD for UMS scene 
You can already watch old replays. Jesus christ.
No you can't buffoon. Why do you think a version changer existed for 1.16 so people could watch super old replays. Or wait maybe you are suggesting to keep a fresh install of 1.16 on your PC at all times!
You have had the abilit y to do this for 15 years. Another sigh. But another piece of the puzzle for me. It just shows how clueless you are and an annoying troll.
I think I once read a thread about such a tool existing a decade ago, or maybe it was only talking about the recent Sc2 implementation. I can't remember and a quick google search did not result in my finding it again.
This has already been done in 1.18. Do you even play starcraft? Have you even used the new patch?
I play starcraft. Do you? It doesn't seem like it. It doesn't seem like you watch starcraft either. Because all you would have had to do was talk about the recent Filthy BW cup and all the lag problems it had due to observers being in the game.
They have said there will be a new map editor.
Why isn't this part of their features table? Seems quite an important selling point. But then again the mind of blizzard is an enigma which you best accept as is without spending much time on rumination. You'll only get more confused. Another case in point? The horrible unit previews, and the outdated material for their recent trailer.
Overall, you don't seem to know much about 1.18 or 1.16 for that matter, so what the absolute hell are you talking about?
Self-awareness is not something most people have. I'm sorry for you.
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@ldv you know that @B-Royal is one of the most active foreign players, and a coach in the league wherein you are a student, right? I understand that you played the game a long time ago, but in terms of being cognizant of the scene and the impact of Blizzard's actions, if we look at just reputation then I would trust B-Royal over you 100% of the way. It doesn't help that your arguments are either non-existent or laced with a childish attitude. B-Royal brought up good points. I haven't seen any from you besides your actually decently-constructed hypothesis a page or two ago about why everyone in this thread is stupid and doesn't know how games are made and sold and for what purpose. It was an interesting read because you actually followed some sort of inductive reasoning, even if I disagree with you wholeheartedly. Maybe you can try more in that vein, and less of this kindergarten nonsense?
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On July 06 2017 00:25 ldv wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2017 00:22 WGT-Baal wrote:On July 05 2017 23:43 ldv wrote:On July 05 2017 23:33 B-royal wrote:
Am I not allowed to dislike the remastered version?
1. I don't like the graphics, I honest to god prefer the original graphics in every way. Cool.
2. I don't care for automated match making. It's going to constantly queue me up with people that have the same MMR as me (or queue me against people based on another similar metric). What if I actually want to go out of my way to play people that are better than me? Or maybe I want to practice a specific match up?
Get practice partners, like every single other game ever. 3. I don't like the new UI. Anything you want to do in the new UI takes more time and more clicks than it did in the old one. False. 4. Since they've shown to renege on the match making promise, who says they won't change their mind about other (small) things? Right now they're adding skins but supposedly they can be disabled by other players. Maybe they will have a sudden change of heart about this issue as well once it is clear they could more money this way.
It's a reasonable assumption, and one that scares me. They didn't promise anything. They don't owe you anything. They made a decision that differed from their original plan. Get over it. 5. They've mishandled the implementation of 1.18 very badly by forcing tournaments to adopt it too early, forcing (?) fish to disable its 1.16 ladder, offering no native integration for iCCup (on the other hand, we already have too many servers...) What? They didn't force fish to disable 1.16, and why would they offer native integration for iCCup? iCCup didn't work with them to do it, while Fish did. If you don't know what's going on behind the scenes why are you offering this wild speculation? 7. Delivering a detrimental blow to the UMS scene by disabling (?) EUD action triggers (sorry I'm not very familiar with terminology or what it actually means). Again, if you don't know what it means, why are you speculating and saying it's "delivering a detrimental blow" lol. The remastered map making tools aren't even out yet. 8. No "innovative" features that would actually be cool:
A. I'm thinking about an integrated version switcher to be able to watch old replays. You can already watch old replays. Jesus christ.
B. Reconnecting to a game after being dropped (maybe this one is impossible without making it too tedious for your opponent)
C. Start game from a replay (Similar to the Sc2 feature). You have had the abilit y to do this for 15 years.
D. Somehow reworking how observers work, so they can't cause the game to lag (something with the game waiting on them sending/receiving data). Don't know how feasible this would be of course.This has already been done in 1.18. Do you even play starcraft? Have you even used the new patch?
E. Native custom AI integration? Play against the top bots available just by uploading their "files" instead of having to use BWAPI, chaoslauncher multiinstance, and the bots binaries/library files.
9. Questionable map editor support? Have we gotten an official statement that they are working on the editor as well? They have said there will be a new map editor. Overall, you don't seem to know much about 1.18 or 1.16 for that matter, so what the absolute hell are you talking about? Show me how to start a game from a replay please! Feature s been here for 15 years? I ve never seen it once. Jaedong vs Flash finals would have liked to know that too... WCG too. Nation wars, cl as well... Point E (the bots) is a very good question imho. I also dont lile the new UI or the 1.18 bnet looks and channels in general. Or how you make/look for game. It s cumbersome. But you could say it s a personal opinion. But you should not just dismiss it as you do by saying "false". It would be interesting to see how the matchmaking system actually works as well. We ll see when we get more info. Finding practice partners s not easy, but yeah for ladder games it shouldnt matter. For actual practice see my above two points. Again it s a personal preference in a way but you should be a little more understanding of other people s opinion. The complaints about the 1.18 UI are so strange. It's just a reskin of the exact same user interface. There is absolutely ZERO FUNCTIONALITY CHANGE except the fact that they added turn rate. It's the same clicks, the buttons are just in different places. It's the same exact process to join or create a game. No change whatsoever. And you can restart a game from a game save. Not from a replay, but how would that work, you start at the end of the replay? That seems only useful for continuing from dropped connections. Needless to say this isn't a 'innovative feature' it's a major addition to the game engine.
Exactly. It d be great and yes it d be a major rework. So in essence you re saying it hasnt existed for 15 years. It exists in sc2 and it is indeed really useful in tournaments.
The UI is slower as my fellow TLer detailed for you. Also not memorising the name of the last game joined is annoying. So is selecting public/private. There are a lot of little things that add up. The chat channels are horrendous. It s ugly. I prefered the old ones. I hate the ow and sc2 ones. It feels like you re alone. Not the best to find practice partner.
The concerns raised in this thread are mostly legit. We re noy trying.to say sc r sucks. It s more things for blizzard/people to consider. The price isnt the problem either it s the attitude. (real or perceived, i concede that point)
@Jinro : we didn't really have any sort of match making. We experimented when we became the "official blizzard ladder" but it wasnt working well at all (on top of multiple other issues). May be one of the old ladder admins or programmer knows more though.
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On July 06 2017 03:14 Jealous wrote:
@ldv you know that @B-Royal is one of the most active foreign players, and a coach in the league wherein you are a student, right? I understand that you played the game a long time ago, but in terms of being cognizant of the scene and the impact of Blizzard's actions, if we look at just reputation then I would trust B-Royal over you 100% of the way. It doesn't help that your arguments are either non-existent or laced with a childish attitude. B-Royal brought up good points. I haven't seen any from you besides your actually decently-constructed hypothesis a page or two ago about why everyone in this thread is stupid and doesn't know how games are made and sold and for what purpose. It was an interesting read because you actually followed some sort of inductive reasoning, even if I disagree with you wholeheartedly. Maybe you can try more in that vein, and less of this kindergarten nonsense?
i give zero fucks about your appeal to authority. wrong is wrong. Also you're a jackass who fucked up the FBW ladder cause you got drunk and fucked with stuff you shouldn't have fucked with. So your appeal to authority is ineffective in both directions.
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On July 06 2017 01:34 B-royal wrote:
a bunch of drivel..
I'm not going to take the time to respond to all of whatever garbage you just posted, but a few points.
I can watch 1.16 replays on 1.18 right now. I'm doing it. As we speak. I watch them on 1.18 all the time. Still doing it. You're wrong.
All of your complaints about the 1.18 ui are either factually incorrect or really fucking stupid "I have to click twice to select my race" like that's so much worse than "I have to click and drag precisely to select my race" lol? what the fuck are you smoking?
the rest of your post is basically garbage. I have no idea what drugs you're on, or why you skipped out on your primary education, but it's incoherent and when it is coherent, it's patently wrong.
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Croatia9476 Posts
On July 06 2017 05:19 ldv wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2017 03:14 Jealous wrote:
@ldv you know that @B-Royal is one of the most active foreign players, and a coach in the league wherein you are a student, right? I understand that you played the game a long time ago, but in terms of being cognizant of the scene and the impact of Blizzard's actions, if we look at just reputation then I would trust B-Royal over you 100% of the way. It doesn't help that your arguments are either non-existent or laced with a childish attitude. B-Royal brought up good points. I haven't seen any from you besides your actually decently-constructed hypothesis a page or two ago about why everyone in this thread is stupid and doesn't know how games are made and sold and for what purpose. It was an interesting read because you actually followed some sort of inductive reasoning, even if I disagree with you wholeheartedly. Maybe you can try more in that vein, and less of this kindergarten nonsense? i give zero fucks about your appeal to authority. wrong is wrong.
Either start posting some actual arguments or stop posting in this thread. Calling people names and telling them they're wrong will not get you far.
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EPT
