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It never ceases to amaze me how little this community can think critically.
There's no chance this project makes a profit. What it is, is a way to draw back older customers back to the Battle.net/Blizzard App platform. Blizzard doesn't make money selling SC:R, they make money when people come back, play some BW, see Overwatch and Heroes of the Storm in the Blizzard app and decide to try those. When those people play Hearthstone. I don't know how much you think this project is going to make, but it isn't enough to pay the salaries of the team of developers working on it, much less the infrastructure they're working on and the overhead of the project itself.
This isn't rocket science! They didn't say to themselves, "$15 per person and we'll all be filthy fucking rich!" They said "$15 will recoup some of this project's costs at a price point the average person over the age of 16 will find more than reasonable, and will also address some side concerns like smurfing and hacking."
This isn't some massive conspiracy to drain you all of your cough savings cough. It's extremely reasonably priced, not profit driven, and the complaining about it makes you all look like entitled god damn children.
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On July 04 2017 18:28 2Pacalypse- wrote:
I can't believe no one has mentioned here that there are *other* (free for users) methods to curb the smurfers/hackers. For one, an actual anti-hack might help a bit. Requiring new users to play a certain amount of "unranked" games before being able to enter official ladder. Hell, as a last resort, you could do what Dota 2 did, which is to require you to link your phone number with an account.
To be fair, putting the ladder behind a paywall will have the similar effect and is the least amount of work, so I can't really blame Blizzard for doing it, but lets not pretend that their sole reason of doing it is out of the goodness of their hearts.
On July 05 2017 02:47 iFU.pauline wrote:
I think Blizzard should just say that it is best for sales because their technical issues or whatever I don't believe it a second. It is the same game.
All of this. I have no doubt in my mind that this is solely because so many people posted on forums like these and responded to devs with the statement that they would not be buying SC:R because they don't care about graphics. What they care about is functionality (which we got to some degree in 1.18) and ladder (which they pulled from 1.18).
On July 05 2017 00:49 SCC-Faust wrote:
I know this has been discussed to death before, but this $15 for matchmaking is barely a solution to smurfing. Also, I never believed smurfing was even a problem on ICCup although people have beaten that dead horse more times than they needed to, cause every other D/D- player swore to high heaven half the players that kicked their asses to the curb was some secret stealth B- agent mingling in their ranks.
But smurfing used to be an actual problem in foreign BW when there was actually a somewhat sizable community, and there was for some reason a big appeal to it. There was a large amount of people smurfing in clan wars. Even bigger names like Iefnaij was in eastern clans like Lzuruha to beat up D ranked clans like (OD) for fun. I'm pretty sure at one point I was in every fucking eastern clan under dumb aliases and I'd have to choose which clan to smurf for when they'd CW each other. And I knew so many people who did this too, that we'd actively avoid each other. It also has been a historical problem for tournaments too, from the Elky/Smuft hosted World Dream Tour, to KawaiiRice/Lastshadow alternating between TvP/TvZ (because I believe KawaiiRice was very strong in TvP, and Lastshadow was very strong in TvZ), to IdrA/Assem cheating in WCG (I think that was the tournament).
But yeah, anyone who plays any fucking game at all knows a pay wall or even a lot of time invested doesn't stop smurfing. If you have a fetish for ass fucking people worse than you, you will smurf. I had 3 League of Legends accounts that I hit diamond with every season. I didn't even buy them, I power leveled them all to 30 by myself. And anybody who plays CSGO will tell you that the $15 price doesn't mean shit really. So to all y'all redditors and D ranked players who were too scared to play ICCup cause of all dem "smurfs", you in for a rude awakening. I'm buying 3 copies of SC:R and I'm gonna sandbag the fuck out of my accounts just so I can feel good about myself after I steamroll some noobies.
The hero we need.
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Ya we get that 15 doesn't prevent smurfing, but it does lower it.
I mean god damn some people here can't fork over the price once out of blizz spite or something
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On July 05 2017 04:55 Little-Chimp wrote:
Ya we get that 15 doesn't prevent smurfing, but it does lower it.
I mean god damn some people here can't fork over the price once out of blizz spite or something
Maybe blizzard put a paywall to make moola off the smurfers on ladder. Not only do they not want to truly fix the smurf problem, but they are profiting off of this dark and ritualistic practice. This is some corrupted black government level shit.
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It's their game. Not sure why people treat it like public property.
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On July 05 2017 10:16 EsX_Raptor wrote:
It's their game. Not sure why people treat it like public property.
The Broodwar community is one of the reasons Blizzard has such a high status. They should give back to their loyal fans that got them to where they are in the industry. I would be much more inclined to buy their future games if they made effort to show that they're doing what they are for more than just money.
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If you think Blizzard made SCR for the money, well I hate to tell you this, but they didn't. It Blizzard was truly only doing this for money, this game would never have been remade. Seriously, I guarantee that SCR is going to be very very very low on their money making list. I bet you Hearthstone/Overwatch/etc will make more this year for Blizzard then SCR.
I mean Blizzard could make a Diablo 4, Warcraft 4, WoW 2 and those would be far far more profitable then SCR will ever be. Anyone who thinks that Blizzard is making SCR just for the money isn't thinking clearly. There are far better ways to make a lot more money then remaking Broodwar in HD.
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On July 05 2017 11:50 blade55555 wrote:
If you think Blizzard made SCR for the money, well I hate to tell you this, but they didn't. It Blizzard was truly only doing this for money, this game would never have been remade. Seriously, I guarantee that SCR is going to be very very very low on their money making list. I bet you Hearthstone/Overwatch/etc will make more this year for Blizzard then SCR.
I mean Blizzard could make a Diablo 4, Warcraft 4, WoW 2 and those would be far far more profitable then SCR will ever be. Anyone who thinks that Blizzard is making SCR just for the money isn't thinking clearly. There are far better ways to make a lot more money then remaking Broodwar in HD.
The difference in my opinion is not that it isn't the most profitable project or that they won't make a ton of money off this. It's that they saw a ton of POTENTIAL earnings being wasted year in, year out. Projects like Shield Battery and OpenBW would have effectively closed out any earning potential for Blizzard from Brood War. By releasing Remastered and putting the matchmaking only available through SC:R they ensured that they would be the ones to profit from any future interest in what was already a scene headed towards revival even prior to the announcement of SC:R.
The thing is that sure, they won't make their money back on SC:R this summer, or maybe even this year. But as we saw in this thread, numerous people had bought the game multiple times in the past. I have three keys myself. That of course won't be the case in the coming years with online copies being available, but it certainly wasn't the case in the past decade or so since everyone started playing on cracked versions on third party servers. By releasing SC:R, Blizzard can openly consider any third party services or cracked games as competitors to their product, and thus enforce more stringent rules. Hell, just by releasing 1.18, they pretty much made it guaranteed that ICCup will get a significantly smaller portion of any potential new users that they could have, especially compared to the past few years. By not giving consent to Afreeca and forcing them to wait for SC:R release, forcing them to play 1.18 even when progamers were complaining about it, it is evident they are trying to push their profit lines and not their product, so to speak. This is very much a way for them to reclaim control of their game and most importantly, the profitability of said game. Blizzards increase in revenue from BW is guaranteed. Blizzard's ability to largely monopolize the majority of future new users and make money from them, something they haven't done/been able to do in over a decade, is guaranteed. Let's not forget that because of them removing match-making from 1.18, they pretty much made 1.18 their free "demo" for the obviously intended full-fledged product, SC:R. "Hey, try this free version which will likely have a smaller population on public servers, with no ladder, for free! But, if you want to really experience this game, give us $15!" This of course all makes sense from a business standpoint, but I am confused as to why more people don't see this, why some are apologists, and why even more are focused on the $15 or the profit margin in the short term as the key elements here. To me, this seems much more of a power grab from community-run efforts than anything else. We have been free of Blizzard's sphere of influence more or less since they pushed SC2 down our throats in Korea, and now they have reined us in anew. All hail King Blizzard.
Also, it is much much easier to simply re-release an already successful and seemingly timeless game than it is to come up with fresh ideas and new games from scratch that are guaranteed to return on their investment.
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On July 05 2017 10:16 EsX_Raptor wrote:
It's their game. Not sure why people treat it like public property.
there would never have been a shitstorm like this if they hadn't said MM's gonna be free.
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On July 05 2017 11:50 blade55555 wrote:
I mean Blizzard could make a Diablo 4, Warcraft 4, WoW 2 and those would be far far more profitable then SCR will ever be. Anyone who thinks that Blizzard is making SCR just for the money isn't thinking clearly. There are far better ways to make a lot more money then remaking Broodwar in HD.
How many employees would need to work on WoW2 vs how many employees working on SC remastered?
They will make a decent profit from retail sale of the game.Then you've got all the dumb skins and announcer packs that they'll put out.Licensing fees for PC Bangs.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On July 05 2017 00:50 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2017 10:50 BigFan wrote:Nice to see them address the matter. Though I would've liked the ladder being available for original starcraft, I have to agree with their reasoning. That's not reasoning? Why are people still falling for this PR blablabla of companies, politicians etc.? That's literally like saying "Hey, we have closed your bank account. This is to ensure the best possible experience for all our costumers. Please enjoy our future products and services." Does this explain why they shut down your bank account? No. Would you be satisfied with that "explanation". I'm going to dare you and say no again. Giving a reason without giving specifics is like saying nothing at all, it's completly worthless as an argument.
Miragee, please, that's such a terrible example! I'm not even going to bother explaining the problem with it. I already posted a response to someone else in this thread so you'll have to read that for an answer.
Facts are that BW is not going anywhere and neither is 1.18. With it being free to play now, at least any new players can try the game and if they like it, can just get remastered for the graphics and ladder etc... BW is Blizzard's IP and they can do whatever they want with it much to our dismay. If they wanted to be complete assholes, they can easily affect the tournament scene (you can see this with ATB2 being so delayed!) and quite possibly, cause problems for fish, iccup and sb etc...
Blizzard is also free to go back on their original words. It might not look great but the point is that they are offering a product and decided that mm is better suited for rm. You can disagree all you want and that's fine. People are free to dismiss it and continue using BW as is and nothing will change. If you don't agree, you're also free to withhold your money and not buy it. Vote with your wallet.
As a side note: I believe that you can still play someone with remastered using normal BW but can only ladder in remastered (guessing they have a greyed out button or something if you don't have rm).
On July 05 2017 12:19 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2017 11:50 blade55555 wrote:
If you think Blizzard made SCR for the money, well I hate to tell you this, but they didn't. It Blizzard was truly only doing this for money, this game would never have been remade. Seriously, I guarantee that SCR is going to be very very very low on their money making list. I bet you Hearthstone/Overwatch/etc will make more this year for Blizzard then SCR.
I mean Blizzard could make a Diablo 4, Warcraft 4, WoW 2 and those would be far far more profitable then SCR will ever be. Anyone who thinks that Blizzard is making SCR just for the money isn't thinking clearly. There are far better ways to make a lot more money then remaking Broodwar in HD. The difference in my opinion is not that it isn't the most profitable project or that they won't make a ton of money off this. It's that they saw a ton of POTENTIAL earnings being wasted year in, year out. Projects like Shield Battery and OpenBW would have effectively closed out any earning potential for Blizzard from Brood War. By releasing Remastered and putting the matchmaking only available through SC:R they ensured that they would be the ones to profit from any future interest in what was already a scene headed towards revival even prior to the announcement of SC:R. The thing is that sure, they won't make their money back on SC:R this summer, or maybe even this year. But as we saw in this thread, numerous people had bought the game multiple times in the past. I have three keys myself. That of course won't be the case in the coming years with online copies being available, but it certainly wasn't the case in the past decade or so since everyone started playing on cracked versions on third party servers. By releasing SC:R, Blizzard can openly consider any third party services or cracked games as competitors to their product, and thus enforce more stringent rules. Hell, just by releasing 1.18, they pretty much made it guaranteed that ICCup will get a significantly smaller portion of any potential new users that they could have, especially compared to the past few years. By not giving consent to Afreeca and forcing them to wait for SC:R release, forcing them to play 1.18 even when progamers were complaining about it, it is evident they are trying to push their profit lines and not their product, so to speak. This is very much a way for them to reclaim control of their game and most importantly, the profitability of said game. Blizzards increase in revenue from BW is guaranteed. Blizzard's ability to largely monopolize the majority of future new users and make money from them, something they haven't done/been able to do in over a decade, is guaranteed. Let's not forget that because of them removing match-making from 1.18, they pretty much made 1.18 their free "demo" for the obviously intended full-fledged product, SC:R. "Hey, try this free version which will likely have a smaller population on public servers, with no ladder, for free! But, if you want to really experience this game, give us $15!" This of course all makes sense from a business standpoint, but I am confused as to why more people don't see this, why some are apologists, and why even more are focused on the $15 or the profit margin in the short term as the key elements here. To me, this seems much more of a power grab from community-run efforts than anything else. We have been free of Blizzard's sphere of influence more or less since they pushed SC2 down our throats in Korea, and now they have reined us in anew. All hail King Blizzard. Also, it is much much easier to simply re-release an already successful and seemingly timeless game than it is to come up with fresh ideas and new games from scratch that are guaranteed to return on their investment.
This portion of the statement is false. 1.18 never had matchmaking, aka, it was never there then taken out. Blizzard just said, hey, we believed mm is better as rm feature only and went that route. You can argue monetary value or control or w/e the reason for the change (they talked about griefing of new and lower-level players) but facts remains that we have not been shown any mm so far. As I mentioned above, those who were only interested in mm are free to be mad if they want that the free version doesn't get it, it's certainly within your right.
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Why quote the whole post if you're only going to argue semantics? I think it's pretty clear in the context of the thread that I am aware of what the topic of discussion is, and meant that they are removing what they had initially promised for 1.18, just didn't write out the whole thing.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On July 05 2017 15:26 Jealous wrote:
Why quote the whole post if you're only going to argue semantics? I think it's pretty clear in the context of the thread that I am aware of what the topic of discussion is, and meant that they are removing what they had initially promised for 1.18, just didn't write out the whole thing.
I wanted to cut the rest but didn't want it to look like I am purposely removing bits and pieces to try and support my point etc... Anyways, fair enough. Promises being changed aren't great which is why I said people are free to be mad and should vote with their wallet instead.
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This mm isn't such a great deal really, usually you create a game wait for someone to join and press ok, it is the same shit 
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On July 05 2017 04:10 ldv wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me how little this community can think critically.
There's no chance this project makes a profit. What it is, is a way to draw back older customers back to the Battle.net/Blizzard App platform. Blizzard doesn't make money selling SC:R, they make money when people come back, play some BW, see Overwatch and Heroes of the Storm in the Blizzard app and decide to try those. When those people play Hearthstone. I don't know how much you think this project is going to make, but it isn't enough to pay the salaries of the team of developers working on it, much less the infrastructure they're working on and the overhead of the project itself.
This isn't rocket science! They didn't say to themselves, "$15 per person and we'll all be filthy fucking rich!" They said "$15 will recoup some of this project's costs at a price point the average person over the age of 16 will find more than reasonable, and will also address some side concerns like smurfing and hacking."
This isn't some massive conspiracy to drain you all of your cough savings cough. It's extremely reasonably priced, not profit driven, and the complaining about it makes you all look like entitled god damn children.
Why is this dude still allowed to post? Sitting in every post shitting on the entire community, look like as it were an "entitled god damn child"
As for a 15$ price tag, i didnt expect it to be free, i was thinking 20 or 30 but 15 is 100% better than that.
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On July 05 2017 16:54 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2017 04:10 ldv wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me how little this community can think critically.
There's no chance this project makes a profit. What it is, is a way to draw back older customers back to the Battle.net/Blizzard App platform. Blizzard doesn't make money selling SC:R, they make money when people come back, play some BW, see Overwatch and Heroes of the Storm in the Blizzard app and decide to try those. When those people play Hearthstone. I don't know how much you think this project is going to make, but it isn't enough to pay the salaries of the team of developers working on it, much less the infrastructure they're working on and the overhead of the project itself.
This isn't rocket science! They didn't say to themselves, "$15 per person and we'll all be filthy fucking rich!" They said "$15 will recoup some of this project's costs at a price point the average person over the age of 16 will find more than reasonable, and will also address some side concerns like smurfing and hacking."
This isn't some massive conspiracy to drain you all of your cough savings cough. It's extremely reasonably priced, not profit driven, and the complaining about it makes you all look like entitled god damn children. Why is this dude still allowed to post? Sitting in every post shitting on the entire community, look like as it were an "entitled god damn child" As for a 15$ price tag, i didnt expect it to be free, i was thinking 20 or 30 but 15 is 100% better than that.
Classic mekhami 
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On July 05 2017 01:30 Little-Chimp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2017 21:16 InDi wrote:The thing is, why should I pay for something that has been implemented by the community several times during the last 10 years for free? Iccup, Fish, Shit even GG.net launched his terrible ladder. 1.18 brings nothing to the gameplay, I am not even commenting on the graphics because... let's be honest, who cares. No big updates to the interface, the only appeal is to matchmake against koreans, which you could do already... and they charge 15$ for it? It is just another shitty policy by Blizzard trying to get money (which ofc is their goal) based on their best game. And the fact that they were shady about this matchmaking being not free, it was just to kill any non-official ladders. Everyone got hyped moved to 1.18 and cu later iccup Stick with those then, but pretty sure the majority of people will be using match making. You aren't forced to part ways with your hard earned 15 dollars
I don't know why you are answering without any argument whatsoever, the point of this topic is to discuss why MM isn't free, I give my opinion, I don't care if its 15$ 500$ or 1$, the point is they let people believe it was going to be free, and now it is not. Let me ask you, why do you want to play SCR? Unless you care about graphics there is no point other than MM, can we agree on that?
99% of the players don't care about graphics, shit that's why we still play BW after 20 years.
Now maybe you can understand why they moved their most expected feature from free to pay, and my point is, whoever buys SCR for MM, will be donating 15$ to Blizzard for something that has been implemented several times by the community for free.
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On July 05 2017 20:21 InDi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2017 01:30 Little-Chimp wrote:On July 04 2017 21:16 InDi wrote:The thing is, why should I pay for something that has been implemented by the community several times during the last 10 years for free? Iccup, Fish, Shit even GG.net launched his terrible ladder. 1.18 brings nothing to the gameplay, I am not even commenting on the graphics because... let's be honest, who cares. No big updates to the interface, the only appeal is to matchmake against koreans, which you could do already... and they charge 15$ for it? It is just another shitty policy by Blizzard trying to get money (which ofc is their goal) based on their best game. And the fact that they were shady about this matchmaking being not free, it was just to kill any non-official ladders. Everyone got hyped moved to 1.18 and cu later iccup Stick with those then, but pretty sure the majority of people will be using match making. You aren't forced to part ways with your hard earned 15 dollars I don't know why you are answering without any argument whatsoever, the point of this topic is to discuss why MM isn't free, I give my opinion, I don't care if its 15$ 500$ or 1$, the point is they let people believe it was going to be free, and now it is not. Let me ask you, why do you want to play SCR? Unless you care about graphics there is no point other than MM, can we agree on that? 99% of the players don't care about graphics, shit that's why we still play BW after 20 years. Now maybe you can understand why they moved their most expected feature from free to pay, and my point is, whoever buys SCR for MM, will be donating 15$ to Blizzard for something that has been implemented several times by the community for free.
To be 100% fair, what has been implemented for free so far is just ladder, not match making as far as I know. Although it is true that SB did promise match making "for free" as well, and it is true that Blizzard ' s work with 1.18 put at least a slight wrench in the works on that end, so while what you said is technically not 100% there is still weight behind it.
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On July 05 2017 15:02 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2017 00:50 Miragee wrote:On July 04 2017 10:50 BigFan wrote:Nice to see them address the matter. Though I would've liked the ladder being available for original starcraft, I have to agree with their reasoning. That's not reasoning? Why are people still falling for this PR blablabla of companies, politicians etc.? That's literally like saying "Hey, we have closed your bank account. This is to ensure the best possible experience for all our costumers. Please enjoy our future products and services." Does this explain why they shut down your bank account? No. Would you be satisfied with that "explanation". I'm going to dare you and say no again. Giving a reason without giving specifics is like saying nothing at all, it's completly worthless as an argument. Miragee, please, that's such a terrible example! I'm not even going to bother explaining the problem with it. I already posted a response to someone else in this thread so you'll have to read that for an answer. Facts are that BW is not going anywhere and neither is 1.18. With it being free to play now, at least any new players can try the game and if they like it, can just get remastered for the graphics and ladder etc... BW is Blizzard's IP and they can do whatever they want with it much to our dismay. If they wanted to be complete assholes, they can easily affect the tournament scene (you can see this with ATB2 being so delayed!) and quite possibly, cause problems for fish, iccup and sb etc... Blizzard is also free to go back on their original words. It might not look great but the point is that they are offering a product and decided that mm is better suited for rm. You can disagree all you want and that's fine. People are free to dismiss it and continue using BW as is and nothing will change. If you don't agree, you're also free to withhold your money and not buy it. Vote with your wallet. As a side note: I believe that you can still play someone with remastered using normal BW but can only ladder in remastered (guessing they have a greyed out button or something if you don't have rm).
Wait, please tell me why it is a terrible example. It's almost the same the only difference is that closing your bank account would arguably be more severe. It still proves my point. A reasoning without details is worthless, period. I have read all your posts in this thread and mind you, I didn't find one valid argument as to why Blizzards statement is worth anything.
The rest of what you are saying is basically: Hey, it's their "property", they can do with it what they want and you have to suck it up. No, simply no. They are a company that wants to sell a product. I as a customer have to assure that I get the product I want if the company doesn't. Because when I always suck it up the company just continues to do everything the way it benefits them the most.
I really don't get the logic behind this. First and foremost it's the company that wants to sell a product and to make a good name for themselves for future products. I as a customer only buy products I like or need. It's the job of the company to ensure the costumer likes the product. Somehow in this discussion this idea got not only reversed but entirely butchered. Now the customer has to like whatever the company is doing regardless and just pay up. If you don't want to play for it, shut up. I tell you one thing: This only works for the company as long as enough people shut up and pay because they don't care if they are being ripped of.
And please, before anyone comes along and tells me again that it is only 15 $ and I'm blowing this way out of proportion: Yes I do. This is a debate on principles. While this might not be the most severe case, Blizzard has shown over the last decade that this is not a one-time issue. They have done it again and again and again. And at this point, it's important to hold them accountable.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Wgtour actually had semi-automated matchmaking via a game matching bot didnt it?
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EPT
