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On July 04 2017 18:28 2Pacalypse- wrote:
I can't believe no one has mentioned here that there are *other* (free for users) methods to curb the smurfers/hackers. For one, an actual anti-hack might help a bit. Requiring new users to play a certain amount of "unranked" games before being able to enter official ladder. Hell, as a last resort, you could do what Dota 2 did, which is to require you to link your phone number with an account.
To be fair, putting the ladder behind a paywall will have the similar effect and is the least amount of work, so I can't really blame Blizzard for doing it, but lets not pretend that their sole reason of doing it is out of the goodness of their hearts.
Exactly this. I think while getting feedback during the whole development proceess, they realised that MM is the most wanted/anticipated feature, with graphics and UI being quite controversial, so it was the most logical decision to make, at least for their POV.
That said, I hope they don't force SC:R and MM on fish, because let's face it, most people that were playing the game before Blizzard showed interest in the scene are not going to switch, even if they buy Remastered and try it out.
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Just at least make the matchmaking available to original using a bought remastered account, think of people who can't run Remastered or end up prefering the old version for whatever reason. It should be simple to do.
We also do want to be able to play against people from other regions without buying a new account for it, so I don't want to see region locking of paid accounts.
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From the perspective of an old player who is already invested in the game 15 dollars is nothing. But for the new players who has been bombarded with stories about how difficult and clunky the game is 15 dollars could become a sticking point.
I would have liked to see ladder open to free accounts after phone number verification or something. I think BW could use an infusion of new blood so I personally would have been happy if matchmaking was available to the free version as well.
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I didn't think about the phone verification of Dota2 but it would have been a better solution than this paywall imo
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I was under the impression that they would be able to queue up 1.18 with SC:R as well, shame. Hearthstone is free, but have their own processes to deter win trading and, to an extent, having multiple accounts. The main reason they are charging money for matchmaking is to make money.
Not that I have any problem with that; I'd be willing to pay $60 for SC:R even, so $15 is a steal for me. Like many people said, it's not the fact that they are charging money, but that they are seemingly backtracking on some of their promises/advertising.
So, does this mean arcade mode or custom games will still be available between 1.18 and SC:R?
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I know this has been discussed to death before, but this $15 for matchmaking is barely a solution to smurfing. Also, I never believed smurfing was even a problem on ICCup although people have beaten that dead horse more times than they needed to, cause every other D/D- player swore to high heaven half the players that kicked their asses to the curb was some secret stealth B- agent mingling in their ranks.
But smurfing used to be an actual problem in foreign BW when there was actually a somewhat sizable community, and there was for some reason a big appeal to it. There was a large amount of people smurfing in clan wars. Even bigger names like Iefnaij was in eastern clans like Lzuruha to beat up D ranked clans like (OD) for fun. I'm pretty sure at one point I was in every fucking eastern clan under dumb aliases and I'd have to choose which clan to smurf for when they'd CW each other. And I knew so many people who did this too, that we'd actively avoid each other. It also has been a historical problem for tournaments too, from the Elky/Smuft hosted World Dream Tour, to KawaiiRice/Lastshadow alternating between TvP/TvZ (because I believe KawaiiRice was very strong in TvP, and Lastshadow was very strong in TvZ), to IdrA/Assem cheating in WCG (I think that was the tournament).
But yeah, anyone who plays any fucking game at all knows a pay wall or even a lot of time invested doesn't stop smurfing. If you have a fetish for ass fucking people worse than you, you will smurf. I had 3 League of Legends accounts that I hit diamond with every season. I didn't even buy them, I power leveled them all to 30 by myself. And anybody who plays CSGO will tell you that the $15 price doesn't mean shit really. So to all y'all redditors and D ranked players who were too scared to play ICCup cause of all dem "smurfs", you in for a rude awakening. I'm buying 3 copies of SC:R and I'm gonna sandbag the fuck out of my accounts just so I can feel good about myself after I steamroll some noobies.
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On July 04 2017 10:50 BigFan wrote:Nice to see them address the matter. Though I would've liked the ladder being available for original starcraft, I have to agree with their reasoning.
That's not reasoning? Why are people still falling for this PR blablabla of companies, politicians etc.? That's literally like saying "Hey, we have closed your bank account. This is to ensure the best possible experience for all our costumers. Please enjoy our future products and services." Does this explain why they shut down your bank account? No. Would you be satisfied with that "explanation". I'm going to dare you and say no again. Giving a reason without giving specifics is like saying nothing at all, it's completly worthless as an argument.
On July 04 2017 21:08 Drake wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2017 19:13 Kadungon wrote:On July 04 2017 15:33 FFW_Rude wrote:
You know that games aren't free to make no ? Do you want micro transaction in BW ? What's 15$ to you if you played BW for 12 years ? It was completely free for Blizzard to ignore SC BW for 15 years, allowing SC BW to blossom (unlike SC2). Then, after 20 years of ignoring, they could just release the source code, which would be free for them to do, to the community. All completely free. so ? i love what they did they also did it mainly for korea
Can you be more specific? Because they did tons of shit I hope you didn't like. What did you love exactly?
On July 04 2017 17:39 Drake wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2017 18:10 raff100 wrote:On June 30 2017 18:07 739 wrote:
And? I don't mind paying 15$ for the HD graphics and a matchmaking feature.
Hell, I'd even pay up to 39.99$ for SC:R And maybe some people don't care about graphics? So they need to spend 15 $ only for the button "find a game"? @Mildcocoa: Did they realize the p2p issue 3 months after the announcement? and that its GOOD its a cheater protection in matchmaking since u have a paywall and u can ban the account !ps: juvenal ur facts are just bad, get better ones
As if they would spend any time or money at that. Maybe for a few month but not in the long run. I like how the financial argument is used again and again in this thread. Blizzard wants to make money, it's not feasible for them to do this for free yadayada. But somehow it's actually feasible for them to employ people for a support team to manage tons of incoming cheat reports and ban cheaters on a regular basis. Blizzard is a profit oriented company and not a welfare organisation - that goes both ways.
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On July 04 2017 21:16 InDi wrote:The thing is, why should I pay for something that has been implemented by the community several times during the last 10 years for free? Iccup, Fish, Shit even GG.net launched his terrible ladder. 1.18 brings nothing to the gameplay, I am not even commenting on the graphics because... let's be honest, who cares. No big updates to the interface, the only appeal is to matchmake against koreans, which you could do already... and they charge 15$ for it? It is just another shitty policy by Blizzard trying to get money (which ofc is their goal) based on their best game. And the fact that they were shady about this matchmaking being not free, it was just to kill any non-official ladders. Everyone got hyped moved to 1.18 and cu later iccup 
Stick with those then, but pretty sure the majority of people will be using match making. You aren't forced to part ways with your hard earned 15 dollars
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they probably just realised matchmaking was one of the most sought after features so why not charge for it? they're many other ways to discourages hackers and smurfs in the ladder mentioned in thread which I doubt they will implement.
curious how much post-release support we'll see with regards to ban waves and updated anti-hack... I'm guessing not much.
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If you want to smurf, you just buy 10 accounts for 15 dollars. Not a lot of money.
If you want to stop people cheating in online tournaments, people that run tournaments need to verify stuff. In the end, stopping cheating in online tournaments is impossible. So that is why you have offline tournaments.
If you want to stop a person on iccup bashing 30 D/C people before they get close to their actual rank, then stop using the stupid iccup system. The iccup system is retarded. I once was A- on iccup, and all I did was play my C+ friends, who somehow got to B because they beat their D friends who trashed their D- friends.
A mathematical algorithm can accurately guess your skill within 5 games. The solution is to change your guess of the true playing strength of a player the more uncertain you think it is. It is silly to have Flash play on iccup, beat a D player, and award him 30 points. Then have him beat another D player, award him 30 points, etc. After Flash beats a D player, you guess his skill is somewhere in between D+ and A+. So you make him play a C ranked player. He beats that one too. You make him play a B+ player.
You don't make him play 40 D/C players in a row. That is because iccup doesn't have a ranking system, at all. They have a point scoring system.
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United States33521 Posts
On July 04 2017 18:28 2Pacalypse- wrote:
I can't believe no one has mentioned here that there are *other* (free for users) methods to curb the smurfers/hackers. For one, an actual anti-hack might help a bit. Requiring new users to play a certain amount of "unranked" games before being able to enter official ladder. Hell, as a last resort, you could do what Dota 2 did, which is to require you to link your phone number with an account.
To be fair, putting the ladder behind a paywall will have the similar effect and is the least amount of work, so I can't really blame Blizzard for doing it, but lets not pretend that their sole reason of doing it is out of the goodness of their hearts.
Blizz did mention that they had made the game much more difficult to hack than in the past, although I have no idea what that means in practical terms. At least, the most recent versions of SC2 seem much harder to hack so maybe they're on to something 
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I think Blizzard should just say that it is best for sales because their technical issues or whatever I don't believe it a second. It is the same game.
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On July 05 2017 02:32 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2017 18:28 2Pacalypse- wrote:
I can't believe no one has mentioned here that there are *other* (free for users) methods to curb the smurfers/hackers. For one, an actual anti-hack might help a bit. Requiring new users to play a certain amount of "unranked" games before being able to enter official ladder. Hell, as a last resort, you could do what Dota 2 did, which is to require you to link your phone number with an account.
To be fair, putting the ladder behind a paywall will have the similar effect and is the least amount of work, so I can't really blame Blizzard for doing it, but lets not pretend that their sole reason of doing it is out of the goodness of their hearts. Blizz did mention that they had made the game much more difficult to hack than in the past, although I have no idea what that means in practical terms. At least, the most recent versions of SC2 seem much harder to hack so maybe they're on to something
Hacking is morally and ethically wrong and as a proud standing member of teamliquid as well as the human race I can't say I condone it.
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Give me a fucking break.
NEWS FLASH: BLIZZARD IS NOT GOING TO MAKE A PROFIT OFF OF SC:R
Get off the edgelord proletariat nonsense. This project will cost them AT LEAST what they make in sales, if not more. This entire project is fan service, they priced it extremely fairly, and there will still always be you members of the oppressed, downtrodden, who are enraged that every part of the game isn't free. After all, you all deserve free everything for life.
God this entire conversation is so obnoxious.
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On July 04 2017 19:52 Endymion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2017 19:44 raff100 wrote:
I'm happy that Pete answered the question and eventually we know that there won't be any ladder for the free version of BW. However ,I'm still scared about how this decision will impact the future playerbase. Let's hope that everyone buys the remastered and fall in love with Broodwar or the playerbase will be even more split between iccup,fish and remastered... if they combine a lack of ladder synergy between 1.18 and remastered, "1 account per purchase," and the $15 price tag, i fully expect the remastered scene to be dead in like 2 months with everyone just playing on 1.16 or 1.18.. one of the biggest draws on bw in pcbangs is you can just roll up, pay for computer time, and sit down with your buds and make fresh accounts and go from there... this whole additional paywall instead of just a serial key goes against pcbang culture, although admittedly overwatch has been doing just fine. edit: in the end, the scene will go where the good players go just like what happened with fish. if fish's ladder has a higher level of competition giving the increased convenience of not having to have 1 account, then fish will win
I'm pretty sure they don't have to buy the game to play it in PC Bangs. They're mostly F2P as long as you pay for computer time.
Overwatch was that way. Blizzard actually had to change the game to require a B.net account linked to a Korean SSN to prevent hackers from creating multiple free accounts. I assume the game is still F2P in PC Bangs there, but players will have to use a single B.net account that is persistent across multiple devices.
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On July 05 2017 02:56 ldv wrote:Give me a fucking break. NEWS FLASH: BLIZZARD IS NOT GOING TO MAKE A PROFIT OFF OF SC:RGet off the edgelord proletariat nonsense. This project will cost them AT LEAST what they make in sales, if not more. This entire project is fan service, they priced it extremely fairly, and there will still always be you members of the oppressed, downtrodden, who are enraged that every part of the game isn't free. After all, you all deserve free everything for life. God this entire conversation is so obnoxious.
If they weren't anticipating making a profit the project would have never been green-lighted. That's why the success of this project will determine if we see remasters for Diablo II / Warcraft III.
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On July 05 2017 03:17 LordOfDabu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2017 02:56 ldv wrote:Give me a fucking break. NEWS FLASH: BLIZZARD IS NOT GOING TO MAKE A PROFIT OFF OF SC:RGet off the edgelord proletariat nonsense. This project will cost them AT LEAST what they make in sales, if not more. This entire project is fan service, they priced it extremely fairly, and there will still always be you members of the oppressed, downtrodden, who are enraged that every part of the game isn't free. After all, you all deserve free everything for life. God this entire conversation is so obnoxious. If they weren't anticipating making a profit the project would have never been green-lighted. That's why the success of this project will determine if we see remasters for Diablo II / Warcraft III.
you really truly have no idea what you are talking about.
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You should perhaps put a mirror to your own words. TYPING IN BOLDED CAPITAL LETTERS does not make whatever you type true. I have no idea what this edgelord proletariat nonsense thing you are talking about btw. WTF is an edgelord btw? We clearly inhabit different circles. With the marketing and brand power of Blizzard behind it, this is clearly not some fan service project; it is an attempt to make as much money as possible as are all Blizzard projects. Your repeated assertions has no reasoning or thought behind it. And enough of your personal insults. You appear to be angry at something and I suggest you take a chill pill.
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On July 05 2017 02:56 ldv wrote:Give me a fucking break. NEWS FLASH: BLIZZARD IS NOT GOING TO MAKE A PROFIT OFF OF SC:RGet off the edgelord proletariat nonsense. This project will cost them AT LEAST what they make in sales, if not more. This entire project is fan service, they priced it extremely fairly, and there will still always be you members of the oppressed, downtrodden, who are enraged that every part of the game isn't free. After all, you all deserve free everything for life. God this entire conversation is so obnoxious.
Even in the case that Blizzard's plan indeed is to do this as a move of good faith towards their fanbase, in hopes to get more future profits from us with SC3/WC4/D4/WoW2, then they will still need PR bullshit. So I don't get this.
Also, I don't see how they can have a classics games team, do SC BW, Diablo, WC2, and expect to lose money on that every time. That makes no sense.
Anything they do, they do with a plan on how that will be profitable to them in the future.
And talking about obnoxious; your all caps are obnoxious. But the way you think you need all caps to flaunt your stupidity is even more so. And keep that alt-right slang for yourself, please.
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EPT
