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Because they're mutually exclusive as intentions does not mean both things can not happen at the same time. Death due to ignorance or incompetence while blizzard squeezes some last bucks out of the inextricable hype that comes with the remaster.
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On July 07 2017 06:19 B-royal wrote:
Because they're mutually exclusive as intentions does not mean both things can not happen at the same time. Death due to ignorance or incompetence while blizzard squeezes some last bucks out of the inextricable hype that comes with the remaster.
This. Also, making money off of hype and a "booming" scene now doesn't mean they intend or try to make money with BW in the long run.
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On July 07 2017 05:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2017 02:12 Miragee wrote:On July 07 2017 01:35 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On July 06 2017 21:20 Miragee wrote:On July 06 2017 12:33 Jealous wrote:On July 06 2017 11:31 Ancestral wrote:On July 05 2017 12:19 Jealous wrote:On July 05 2017 11:50 blade55555 wrote:
If you think Blizzard made SCR for the money, well I hate to tell you this, but they didn't. It Blizzard was truly only doing this for money, this game would never have been remade. Seriously, I guarantee that SCR is going to be very very very low on their money making list. I bet you Hearthstone/Overwatch/etc will make more this year for Blizzard then SCR.
I mean Blizzard could make a Diablo 4, Warcraft 4, WoW 2 and those would be far far more profitable then SCR will ever be. Anyone who thinks that Blizzard is making SCR just for the money isn't thinking clearly. There are far better ways to make a lot more money then remaking Broodwar in HD. By not giving consent to Afreeca and forcing them to wait for SC:R release, forcing them to play 1.18 even when progamers were complaining about it, it is evident they are trying to push their profit lines and not their product, so to speak. This is very much a way for them to reclaim control of their game and most importantly, the profitability of said game. :/ I didn't realize the case. I'm sure many remember clearly how Blizzard mustered a lot of manpower to try and destroy competitive BW in Korea to make way for their shiny new product. They did everything short of deploying brownshirts to smash every CD, computer, and server with the binary install files. After basically going to war with KeSPA, I guess maybe they are just back to their old tactics of trying to have complete control over the entire scene like they did with SCII, which ironically made it a non-starter in Korea, because BW was made great as a competitive game mostly through the work of the community. I was conceptualizing it as mostly out of recognition for their own history that they decided to do Remastered, but you're right; the timing makes it look like they realized BW was going to succeed in Korea no matter how hard they opposed it, so they just decided that they might as well have control over it if it does. I guess maybe 100 years from now or whenever BW is in the public domain, it can finally flourish unfettered. Fresh from the press. Thought you might find it relevant. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/522899-asl-team-battle-season-2?page=7#140Say it ain't so. EDIT: Just want to clarify that in my earlier post, all I stipulated was that Blizzard had not (yet?) given consent to Afreeca to run ATB. Now they have flat-out rejected it, according to K.J.H., who in my eyes has been a reliable source for Korean scene information as of late. Oh god, not again. Fuck Blizzard seriously. If they are going to destroy the BW scene a second time I hope from the bottom of my heart that they will go bankrupt as soon as possible. Activision Blizzard is a 40+ billion dollar company that is in the midst of a huge upsurge in terms of revenue and profitability and future outlook, so you might have to wait for a while for that. I know, it's a shame. On July 07 2017 01:37 BLinD-RawR wrote:On July 06 2017 21:20 Miragee wrote:On July 06 2017 12:33 Jealous wrote:On July 06 2017 11:31 Ancestral wrote:On July 05 2017 12:19 Jealous wrote:On July 05 2017 11:50 blade55555 wrote:
If you think Blizzard made SCR for the money, well I hate to tell you this, but they didn't. It Blizzard was truly only doing this for money, this game would never have been remade. Seriously, I guarantee that SCR is going to be very very very low on their money making list. I bet you Hearthstone/Overwatch/etc will make more this year for Blizzard then SCR.
I mean Blizzard could make a Diablo 4, Warcraft 4, WoW 2 and those would be far far more profitable then SCR will ever be. Anyone who thinks that Blizzard is making SCR just for the money isn't thinking clearly. There are far better ways to make a lot more money then remaking Broodwar in HD. By not giving consent to Afreeca and forcing them to wait for SC:R release, forcing them to play 1.18 even when progamers were complaining about it, it is evident they are trying to push their profit lines and not their product, so to speak. This is very much a way for them to reclaim control of their game and most importantly, the profitability of said game. :/ I didn't realize the case. I'm sure many remember clearly how Blizzard mustered a lot of manpower to try and destroy competitive BW in Korea to make way for their shiny new product. They did everything short of deploying brownshirts to smash every CD, computer, and server with the binary install files. After basically going to war with KeSPA, I guess maybe they are just back to their old tactics of trying to have complete control over the entire scene like they did with SCII, which ironically made it a non-starter in Korea, because BW was made great as a competitive game mostly through the work of the community. I was conceptualizing it as mostly out of recognition for their own history that they decided to do Remastered, but you're right; the timing makes it look like they realized BW was going to succeed in Korea no matter how hard they opposed it, so they just decided that they might as well have control over it if it does. I guess maybe 100 years from now or whenever BW is in the public domain, it can finally flourish unfettered. Fresh from the press. Thought you might find it relevant. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/522899-asl-team-battle-season-2?page=7#140Say it ain't so. EDIT: Just want to clarify that in my earlier post, all I stipulated was that Blizzard had not (yet?) given consent to Afreeca to run ATB. Now they have flat-out rejected it, according to K.J.H., who in my eyes has been a reliable source for Korean scene information as of late. Oh god, not again. Fuck Blizzard seriously. If they are going to destroy the BW scene a second time I hope from the bottom of my heart that they will go bankrupt as soon as possible. the last 5 years are proof that killing BW is not as easy as that, calm down. Uh, BW took 4 years to somewhat recover from the last blow Blizzard dealt to the scene. It's still nowhere near back to what it was. I don't want to see what the scene might look like after another blow, sorry. On July 07 2017 01:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Blizzard doesn't want to kill BW, that's a silly notion. Err, you know what happened when they tried to force SC2 on the korean market, right? They pretty much wanted to kill BW and were quite vocal about it. Remember the speech Mike Morhaime did at the end of the last MSL (I think?) where he said everything good has come to an end someday and BW's day had come? The speech that made Kim Carrier cry? They don't care about BW one bit. They care about profit and advertisement. Since the SC2 scene is dwindeling and the BW scene is rising again, SC:R is pretty much the move to jump on the bandwagon and put their thumb on the scene and press it for revenue. Their continuous forceful acting speaks volumes. The sad thing is I think it will work out for them. Even if they end up splitting the community, dealing another fatal blow to the community in the long run, it won't hurt them. That's because the newcomers who will jump on the game due to SC:R will leave quickly again. Those will keep buying Blizzard products in the future and will probably even look at the whole SC:R thing and say that Blizzard did something good for all the fans and that BW would have never survived as long without it. This is because they don't know anything about the scene and what it went through and they weren't involved anywhere close enough to understand what Blizzard actually did. I know this all sounds very pessimistic. It might turn out to go all well and I really hope it will. However, over the past decade I have learned to approach everything that comes from Blizzard with heavy pessimism. If I don't I'm bound to get devastated. "Blizzard wants to profit from BW" and "Blizzard wants to kill BW" are mutually exclusive notions. Blizzard very much does not want to kill BW.
Except that is literally what happened with the KeSPA debacle. It's possible to have profit as so paramount a motive that unfair practices are enacted to get it.
http://www.businessinsider.com/sears-obsession-with-wall-street-2016-3
Not saying that's what's going on here. Here, I think there's some degree of execs just not "getting" it. "It" being the fact that BW was made a spectacular success independent of Blizzard, and that independence was a necessary factor.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On July 06 2017 03:24 WGT-Baal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2017 00:25 ldv wrote:On July 06 2017 00:22 WGT-Baal wrote:On July 05 2017 23:43 ldv wrote:On July 05 2017 23:33 B-royal wrote:
Am I not allowed to dislike the remastered version?
1. I don't like the graphics, I honest to god prefer the original graphics in every way. Cool.
2. I don't care for automated match making. It's going to constantly queue me up with people that have the same MMR as me (or queue me against people based on another similar metric). What if I actually want to go out of my way to play people that are better than me? Or maybe I want to practice a specific match up?
Get practice partners, like every single other game ever. 3. I don't like the new UI. Anything you want to do in the new UI takes more time and more clicks than it did in the old one. False. 4. Since they've shown to renege on the match making promise, who says they won't change their mind about other (small) things? Right now they're adding skins but supposedly they can be disabled by other players. Maybe they will have a sudden change of heart about this issue as well once it is clear they could more money this way.
It's a reasonable assumption, and one that scares me. They didn't promise anything. They don't owe you anything. They made a decision that differed from their original plan. Get over it. 5. They've mishandled the implementation of 1.18 very badly by forcing tournaments to adopt it too early, forcing (?) fish to disable its 1.16 ladder, offering no native integration for iCCup (on the other hand, we already have too many servers...) What? They didn't force fish to disable 1.16, and why would they offer native integration for iCCup? iCCup didn't work with them to do it, while Fish did. If you don't know what's going on behind the scenes why are you offering this wild speculation? 7. Delivering a detrimental blow to the UMS scene by disabling (?) EUD action triggers (sorry I'm not very familiar with terminology or what it actually means). Again, if you don't know what it means, why are you speculating and saying it's "delivering a detrimental blow" lol. The remastered map making tools aren't even out yet. 8. No "innovative" features that would actually be cool:
A. I'm thinking about an integrated version switcher to be able to watch old replays. You can already watch old replays. Jesus christ.
B. Reconnecting to a game after being dropped (maybe this one is impossible without making it too tedious for your opponent)
C. Start game from a replay (Similar to the Sc2 feature). You have had the abilit y to do this for 15 years.
D. Somehow reworking how observers work, so they can't cause the game to lag (something with the game waiting on them sending/receiving data). Don't know how feasible this would be of course.This has already been done in 1.18. Do you even play starcraft? Have you even used the new patch?
E. Native custom AI integration? Play against the top bots available just by uploading their "files" instead of having to use BWAPI, chaoslauncher multiinstance, and the bots binaries/library files.
9. Questionable map editor support? Have we gotten an official statement that they are working on the editor as well? They have said there will be a new map editor. Overall, you don't seem to know much about 1.18 or 1.16 for that matter, so what the absolute hell are you talking about? Show me how to start a game from a replay please! Feature s been here for 15 years? I ve never seen it once. Jaedong vs Flash finals would have liked to know that too... WCG too. Nation wars, cl as well... Point E (the bots) is a very good question imho. I also dont lile the new UI or the 1.18 bnet looks and channels in general. Or how you make/look for game. It s cumbersome. But you could say it s a personal opinion. But you should not just dismiss it as you do by saying "false". It would be interesting to see how the matchmaking system actually works as well. We ll see when we get more info. Finding practice partners s not easy, but yeah for ladder games it shouldnt matter. For actual practice see my above two points. Again it s a personal preference in a way but you should be a little more understanding of other people s opinion. The complaints about the 1.18 UI are so strange. It's just a reskin of the exact same user interface. There is absolutely ZERO FUNCTIONALITY CHANGE except the fact that they added turn rate. It's the same clicks, the buttons are just in different places. It's the same exact process to join or create a game. No change whatsoever. And you can restart a game from a game save. Not from a replay, but how would that work, you start at the end of the replay? That seems only useful for continuing from dropped connections. Needless to say this isn't a 'innovative feature' it's a major addition to the game engine. Exactly. It d be great and yes it d be a major rework. So in essence you re saying it hasnt existed for 15 years. It exists in sc2 and it is indeed really useful in tournaments. The UI is slower as my fellow TLer detailed for you. Also not memorising the name of the last game joined is annoying. So is selecting public/private. There are a lot of little things that add up. The chat channels are horrendous. It s ugly. I prefered the old ones. I hate the ow and sc2 ones. It feels like you re alone. Not the best to find practice partner. The concerns raised in this thread are mostly legit. We re noy trying.to say sc r sucks. It s more things for blizzard/people to consider. The price isnt the problem either it s the attitude. (real or perceived, i concede that point) @Jinro : we didn't really have any sort of match making. We experimented when we became the "official blizzard ladder" but it wasnt working well at all (on top of multiple other issues). May be one of the old ladder admins or programmer knows more though.
I miss wgtour  Having every single replay of every game available was such a cool feature.
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United States33699 Posts
On July 07 2017 06:57 Ancestral wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2017 05:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On July 07 2017 02:12 Miragee wrote:On July 07 2017 01:35 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On July 06 2017 21:20 Miragee wrote:On July 06 2017 12:33 Jealous wrote:On July 06 2017 11:31 Ancestral wrote:On July 05 2017 12:19 Jealous wrote:On July 05 2017 11:50 blade55555 wrote:
If you think Blizzard made SCR for the money, well I hate to tell you this, but they didn't. It Blizzard was truly only doing this for money, this game would never have been remade. Seriously, I guarantee that SCR is going to be very very very low on their money making list. I bet you Hearthstone/Overwatch/etc will make more this year for Blizzard then SCR.
I mean Blizzard could make a Diablo 4, Warcraft 4, WoW 2 and those would be far far more profitable then SCR will ever be. Anyone who thinks that Blizzard is making SCR just for the money isn't thinking clearly. There are far better ways to make a lot more money then remaking Broodwar in HD. By not giving consent to Afreeca and forcing them to wait for SC:R release, forcing them to play 1.18 even when progamers were complaining about it, it is evident they are trying to push their profit lines and not their product, so to speak. This is very much a way for them to reclaim control of their game and most importantly, the profitability of said game. :/ I didn't realize the case. I'm sure many remember clearly how Blizzard mustered a lot of manpower to try and destroy competitive BW in Korea to make way for their shiny new product. They did everything short of deploying brownshirts to smash every CD, computer, and server with the binary install files. After basically going to war with KeSPA, I guess maybe they are just back to their old tactics of trying to have complete control over the entire scene like they did with SCII, which ironically made it a non-starter in Korea, because BW was made great as a competitive game mostly through the work of the community. I was conceptualizing it as mostly out of recognition for their own history that they decided to do Remastered, but you're right; the timing makes it look like they realized BW was going to succeed in Korea no matter how hard they opposed it, so they just decided that they might as well have control over it if it does. I guess maybe 100 years from now or whenever BW is in the public domain, it can finally flourish unfettered. Fresh from the press. Thought you might find it relevant. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/522899-asl-team-battle-season-2?page=7#140Say it ain't so. EDIT: Just want to clarify that in my earlier post, all I stipulated was that Blizzard had not (yet?) given consent to Afreeca to run ATB. Now they have flat-out rejected it, according to K.J.H., who in my eyes has been a reliable source for Korean scene information as of late. Oh god, not again. Fuck Blizzard seriously. If they are going to destroy the BW scene a second time I hope from the bottom of my heart that they will go bankrupt as soon as possible. Activision Blizzard is a 40+ billion dollar company that is in the midst of a huge upsurge in terms of revenue and profitability and future outlook, so you might have to wait for a while for that. I know, it's a shame. On July 07 2017 01:37 BLinD-RawR wrote:On July 06 2017 21:20 Miragee wrote:On July 06 2017 12:33 Jealous wrote:On July 06 2017 11:31 Ancestral wrote:On July 05 2017 12:19 Jealous wrote:On July 05 2017 11:50 blade55555 wrote:
If you think Blizzard made SCR for the money, well I hate to tell you this, but they didn't. It Blizzard was truly only doing this for money, this game would never have been remade. Seriously, I guarantee that SCR is going to be very very very low on their money making list. I bet you Hearthstone/Overwatch/etc will make more this year for Blizzard then SCR.
I mean Blizzard could make a Diablo 4, Warcraft 4, WoW 2 and those would be far far more profitable then SCR will ever be. Anyone who thinks that Blizzard is making SCR just for the money isn't thinking clearly. There are far better ways to make a lot more money then remaking Broodwar in HD. By not giving consent to Afreeca and forcing them to wait for SC:R release, forcing them to play 1.18 even when progamers were complaining about it, it is evident they are trying to push their profit lines and not their product, so to speak. This is very much a way for them to reclaim control of their game and most importantly, the profitability of said game. :/ I didn't realize the case. I'm sure many remember clearly how Blizzard mustered a lot of manpower to try and destroy competitive BW in Korea to make way for their shiny new product. They did everything short of deploying brownshirts to smash every CD, computer, and server with the binary install files. After basically going to war with KeSPA, I guess maybe they are just back to their old tactics of trying to have complete control over the entire scene like they did with SCII, which ironically made it a non-starter in Korea, because BW was made great as a competitive game mostly through the work of the community. I was conceptualizing it as mostly out of recognition for their own history that they decided to do Remastered, but you're right; the timing makes it look like they realized BW was going to succeed in Korea no matter how hard they opposed it, so they just decided that they might as well have control over it if it does. I guess maybe 100 years from now or whenever BW is in the public domain, it can finally flourish unfettered. Fresh from the press. Thought you might find it relevant. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/522899-asl-team-battle-season-2?page=7#140Say it ain't so. EDIT: Just want to clarify that in my earlier post, all I stipulated was that Blizzard had not (yet?) given consent to Afreeca to run ATB. Now they have flat-out rejected it, according to K.J.H., who in my eyes has been a reliable source for Korean scene information as of late. Oh god, not again. Fuck Blizzard seriously. If they are going to destroy the BW scene a second time I hope from the bottom of my heart that they will go bankrupt as soon as possible. the last 5 years are proof that killing BW is not as easy as that, calm down. Uh, BW took 4 years to somewhat recover from the last blow Blizzard dealt to the scene. It's still nowhere near back to what it was. I don't want to see what the scene might look like after another blow, sorry. On July 07 2017 01:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Blizzard doesn't want to kill BW, that's a silly notion. Err, you know what happened when they tried to force SC2 on the korean market, right? They pretty much wanted to kill BW and were quite vocal about it. Remember the speech Mike Morhaime did at the end of the last MSL (I think?) where he said everything good has come to an end someday and BW's day had come? The speech that made Kim Carrier cry? They don't care about BW one bit. They care about profit and advertisement. Since the SC2 scene is dwindeling and the BW scene is rising again, SC:R is pretty much the move to jump on the bandwagon and put their thumb on the scene and press it for revenue. Their continuous forceful acting speaks volumes. The sad thing is I think it will work out for them. Even if they end up splitting the community, dealing another fatal blow to the community in the long run, it won't hurt them. That's because the newcomers who will jump on the game due to SC:R will leave quickly again. Those will keep buying Blizzard products in the future and will probably even look at the whole SC:R thing and say that Blizzard did something good for all the fans and that BW would have never survived as long without it. This is because they don't know anything about the scene and what it went through and they weren't involved anywhere close enough to understand what Blizzard actually did. I know this all sounds very pessimistic. It might turn out to go all well and I really hope it will. However, over the past decade I have learned to approach everything that comes from Blizzard with heavy pessimism. If I don't I'm bound to get devastated. "Blizzard wants to profit from BW" and "Blizzard wants to kill BW" are mutually exclusive notions. Blizzard very much does not want to kill BW. Except that is literally what happened with the KeSPA debacle. It's possible to have profit as so paramount a motive that unfair practices are enacted to get it. http://www.businessinsider.com/sears-obsession-with-wall-street-2016-3Not saying that's what's going on here. Here, I think there's some degree of execs just not "getting" it. "It" being the fact that BW was made a spectacular success independent of Blizzard, and that independence was a necessary factor.
Hey, why don't you tell me what you think happened in the "KeSPA debacle."
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On July 07 2017 12:33 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2017 06:57 Ancestral wrote:On July 07 2017 05:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On July 07 2017 02:12 Miragee wrote:On July 07 2017 01:35 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On July 06 2017 21:20 Miragee wrote:On July 06 2017 12:33 Jealous wrote:On July 06 2017 11:31 Ancestral wrote:On July 05 2017 12:19 Jealous wrote:On July 05 2017 11:50 blade55555 wrote:
If you think Blizzard made SCR for the money, well I hate to tell you this, but they didn't. It Blizzard was truly only doing this for money, this game would never have been remade. Seriously, I guarantee that SCR is going to be very very very low on their money making list. I bet you Hearthstone/Overwatch/etc will make more this year for Blizzard then SCR.
I mean Blizzard could make a Diablo 4, Warcraft 4, WoW 2 and those would be far far more profitable then SCR will ever be. Anyone who thinks that Blizzard is making SCR just for the money isn't thinking clearly. There are far better ways to make a lot more money then remaking Broodwar in HD. By not giving consent to Afreeca and forcing them to wait for SC:R release, forcing them to play 1.18 even when progamers were complaining about it, it is evident they are trying to push their profit lines and not their product, so to speak. This is very much a way for them to reclaim control of their game and most importantly, the profitability of said game. :/ I didn't realize the case. I'm sure many remember clearly how Blizzard mustered a lot of manpower to try and destroy competitive BW in Korea to make way for their shiny new product. They did everything short of deploying brownshirts to smash every CD, computer, and server with the binary install files. After basically going to war with KeSPA, I guess maybe they are just back to their old tactics of trying to have complete control over the entire scene like they did with SCII, which ironically made it a non-starter in Korea, because BW was made great as a competitive game mostly through the work of the community. I was conceptualizing it as mostly out of recognition for their own history that they decided to do Remastered, but you're right; the timing makes it look like they realized BW was going to succeed in Korea no matter how hard they opposed it, so they just decided that they might as well have control over it if it does. I guess maybe 100 years from now or whenever BW is in the public domain, it can finally flourish unfettered. Fresh from the press. Thought you might find it relevant. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/522899-asl-team-battle-season-2?page=7#140Say it ain't so. EDIT: Just want to clarify that in my earlier post, all I stipulated was that Blizzard had not (yet?) given consent to Afreeca to run ATB. Now they have flat-out rejected it, according to K.J.H., who in my eyes has been a reliable source for Korean scene information as of late. Oh god, not again. Fuck Blizzard seriously. If they are going to destroy the BW scene a second time I hope from the bottom of my heart that they will go bankrupt as soon as possible. Activision Blizzard is a 40+ billion dollar company that is in the midst of a huge upsurge in terms of revenue and profitability and future outlook, so you might have to wait for a while for that. I know, it's a shame. On July 07 2017 01:37 BLinD-RawR wrote:On July 06 2017 21:20 Miragee wrote:On July 06 2017 12:33 Jealous wrote:On July 06 2017 11:31 Ancestral wrote:On July 05 2017 12:19 Jealous wrote:On July 05 2017 11:50 blade55555 wrote:
If you think Blizzard made SCR for the money, well I hate to tell you this, but they didn't. It Blizzard was truly only doing this for money, this game would never have been remade. Seriously, I guarantee that SCR is going to be very very very low on their money making list. I bet you Hearthstone/Overwatch/etc will make more this year for Blizzard then SCR.
I mean Blizzard could make a Diablo 4, Warcraft 4, WoW 2 and those would be far far more profitable then SCR will ever be. Anyone who thinks that Blizzard is making SCR just for the money isn't thinking clearly. There are far better ways to make a lot more money then remaking Broodwar in HD. By not giving consent to Afreeca and forcing them to wait for SC:R release, forcing them to play 1.18 even when progamers were complaining about it, it is evident they are trying to push their profit lines and not their product, so to speak. This is very much a way for them to reclaim control of their game and most importantly, the profitability of said game. :/ I didn't realize the case. I'm sure many remember clearly how Blizzard mustered a lot of manpower to try and destroy competitive BW in Korea to make way for their shiny new product. They did everything short of deploying brownshirts to smash every CD, computer, and server with the binary install files. After basically going to war with KeSPA, I guess maybe they are just back to their old tactics of trying to have complete control over the entire scene like they did with SCII, which ironically made it a non-starter in Korea, because BW was made great as a competitive game mostly through the work of the community. I was conceptualizing it as mostly out of recognition for their own history that they decided to do Remastered, but you're right; the timing makes it look like they realized BW was going to succeed in Korea no matter how hard they opposed it, so they just decided that they might as well have control over it if it does. I guess maybe 100 years from now or whenever BW is in the public domain, it can finally flourish unfettered. Fresh from the press. Thought you might find it relevant. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/522899-asl-team-battle-season-2?page=7#140Say it ain't so. EDIT: Just want to clarify that in my earlier post, all I stipulated was that Blizzard had not (yet?) given consent to Afreeca to run ATB. Now they have flat-out rejected it, according to K.J.H., who in my eyes has been a reliable source for Korean scene information as of late. Oh god, not again. Fuck Blizzard seriously. If they are going to destroy the BW scene a second time I hope from the bottom of my heart that they will go bankrupt as soon as possible. the last 5 years are proof that killing BW is not as easy as that, calm down. Uh, BW took 4 years to somewhat recover from the last blow Blizzard dealt to the scene. It's still nowhere near back to what it was. I don't want to see what the scene might look like after another blow, sorry. On July 07 2017 01:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Blizzard doesn't want to kill BW, that's a silly notion. Err, you know what happened when they tried to force SC2 on the korean market, right? They pretty much wanted to kill BW and were quite vocal about it. Remember the speech Mike Morhaime did at the end of the last MSL (I think?) where he said everything good has come to an end someday and BW's day had come? The speech that made Kim Carrier cry? They don't care about BW one bit. They care about profit and advertisement. Since the SC2 scene is dwindeling and the BW scene is rising again, SC:R is pretty much the move to jump on the bandwagon and put their thumb on the scene and press it for revenue. Their continuous forceful acting speaks volumes. The sad thing is I think it will work out for them. Even if they end up splitting the community, dealing another fatal blow to the community in the long run, it won't hurt them. That's because the newcomers who will jump on the game due to SC:R will leave quickly again. Those will keep buying Blizzard products in the future and will probably even look at the whole SC:R thing and say that Blizzard did something good for all the fans and that BW would have never survived as long without it. This is because they don't know anything about the scene and what it went through and they weren't involved anywhere close enough to understand what Blizzard actually did. I know this all sounds very pessimistic. It might turn out to go all well and I really hope it will. However, over the past decade I have learned to approach everything that comes from Blizzard with heavy pessimism. If I don't I'm bound to get devastated. "Blizzard wants to profit from BW" and "Blizzard wants to kill BW" are mutually exclusive notions. Blizzard very much does not want to kill BW. Except that is literally what happened with the KeSPA debacle. It's possible to have profit as so paramount a motive that unfair practices are enacted to get it. http://www.businessinsider.com/sears-obsession-with-wall-street-2016-3Not saying that's what's going on here. Here, I think there's some degree of execs just not "getting" it. "It" being the fact that BW was made a spectacular success independent of Blizzard, and that independence was a necessary factor. Hey, why don't you tell me what you think happened in the "KeSPA debacle."
Rather than tell you what I think happened, I will tell you what actually happened, though I think you already know so I don't understand your combative rhetorical tone.
What happened is, KeSPA had been the governing body of BroodWar for the better part of the decade and had cultivated what was admittedly already a popular RTS into what essentially became the genesis of professional e-sports as we know them today. All the while, countless BroodWar events were broadcasted and KeSPA and the networks were able to do so unmolested by Blizzard.
Then, as Blizzard grew as a company and indeed had a sequel to BroodWar in the pipeline, they decided that they ought to just now, after the BroodWar community made BroodWar what it was, exercise their intellectual property rights. They were ultimately successful in this endeavor and it is now company policy to police tournaments this way, despite never having done so during the entire period when BW became what it was through grassroots effort, and continuing not to do so until they had a sequel in the works and were far richer as a company.
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United States33699 Posts
On July 07 2017 13:10 Ancestral wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2017 12:33 Waxangel wrote:On July 07 2017 06:57 Ancestral wrote:On July 07 2017 05:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On July 07 2017 02:12 Miragee wrote:On July 07 2017 01:35 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On July 06 2017 21:20 Miragee wrote:On July 06 2017 12:33 Jealous wrote:On July 06 2017 11:31 Ancestral wrote:On July 05 2017 12:19 Jealous wrote:
[quote]
By not giving consent to Afreeca and forcing them to wait for SC:R release, forcing them to play 1.18 even when progamers were complaining about it, it is evident they are trying to push their profit lines and not their product, so to speak. This is very much a way for them to reclaim control of their game and most importantly, the profitability of said game. :/ I didn't realize the case. I'm sure many remember clearly how Blizzard mustered a lot of manpower to try and destroy competitive BW in Korea to make way for their shiny new product. They did everything short of deploying brownshirts to smash every CD, computer, and server with the binary install files. After basically going to war with KeSPA, I guess maybe they are just back to their old tactics of trying to have complete control over the entire scene like they did with SCII, which ironically made it a non-starter in Korea, because BW was made great as a competitive game mostly through the work of the community. I was conceptualizing it as mostly out of recognition for their own history that they decided to do Remastered, but you're right; the timing makes it look like they realized BW was going to succeed in Korea no matter how hard they opposed it, so they just decided that they might as well have control over it if it does. I guess maybe 100 years from now or whenever BW is in the public domain, it can finally flourish unfettered. Fresh from the press. Thought you might find it relevant. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/522899-asl-team-battle-season-2?page=7#140Say it ain't so. EDIT: Just want to clarify that in my earlier post, all I stipulated was that Blizzard had not (yet?) given consent to Afreeca to run ATB. Now they have flat-out rejected it, according to K.J.H., who in my eyes has been a reliable source for Korean scene information as of late. Oh god, not again. Fuck Blizzard seriously. If they are going to destroy the BW scene a second time I hope from the bottom of my heart that they will go bankrupt as soon as possible. Activision Blizzard is a 40+ billion dollar company that is in the midst of a huge upsurge in terms of revenue and profitability and future outlook, so you might have to wait for a while for that. I know, it's a shame. On July 07 2017 01:37 BLinD-RawR wrote:On July 06 2017 21:20 Miragee wrote:On July 06 2017 12:33 Jealous wrote:On July 06 2017 11:31 Ancestral wrote:On July 05 2017 12:19 Jealous wrote:
[quote]
By not giving consent to Afreeca and forcing them to wait for SC:R release, forcing them to play 1.18 even when progamers were complaining about it, it is evident they are trying to push their profit lines and not their product, so to speak. This is very much a way for them to reclaim control of their game and most importantly, the profitability of said game. :/ I didn't realize the case. I'm sure many remember clearly how Blizzard mustered a lot of manpower to try and destroy competitive BW in Korea to make way for their shiny new product. They did everything short of deploying brownshirts to smash every CD, computer, and server with the binary install files. After basically going to war with KeSPA, I guess maybe they are just back to their old tactics of trying to have complete control over the entire scene like they did with SCII, which ironically made it a non-starter in Korea, because BW was made great as a competitive game mostly through the work of the community. I was conceptualizing it as mostly out of recognition for their own history that they decided to do Remastered, but you're right; the timing makes it look like they realized BW was going to succeed in Korea no matter how hard they opposed it, so they just decided that they might as well have control over it if it does. I guess maybe 100 years from now or whenever BW is in the public domain, it can finally flourish unfettered. Fresh from the press. Thought you might find it relevant. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/522899-asl-team-battle-season-2?page=7#140Say it ain't so. EDIT: Just want to clarify that in my earlier post, all I stipulated was that Blizzard had not (yet?) given consent to Afreeca to run ATB. Now they have flat-out rejected it, according to K.J.H., who in my eyes has been a reliable source for Korean scene information as of late. Oh god, not again. Fuck Blizzard seriously. If they are going to destroy the BW scene a second time I hope from the bottom of my heart that they will go bankrupt as soon as possible. the last 5 years are proof that killing BW is not as easy as that, calm down. Uh, BW took 4 years to somewhat recover from the last blow Blizzard dealt to the scene. It's still nowhere near back to what it was. I don't want to see what the scene might look like after another blow, sorry. On July 07 2017 01:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Blizzard doesn't want to kill BW, that's a silly notion. Err, you know what happened when they tried to force SC2 on the korean market, right? They pretty much wanted to kill BW and were quite vocal about it. Remember the speech Mike Morhaime did at the end of the last MSL (I think?) where he said everything good has come to an end someday and BW's day had come? The speech that made Kim Carrier cry? They don't care about BW one bit. They care about profit and advertisement. Since the SC2 scene is dwindeling and the BW scene is rising again, SC:R is pretty much the move to jump on the bandwagon and put their thumb on the scene and press it for revenue. Their continuous forceful acting speaks volumes. The sad thing is I think it will work out for them. Even if they end up splitting the community, dealing another fatal blow to the community in the long run, it won't hurt them. That's because the newcomers who will jump on the game due to SC:R will leave quickly again. Those will keep buying Blizzard products in the future and will probably even look at the whole SC:R thing and say that Blizzard did something good for all the fans and that BW would have never survived as long without it. This is because they don't know anything about the scene and what it went through and they weren't involved anywhere close enough to understand what Blizzard actually did. I know this all sounds very pessimistic. It might turn out to go all well and I really hope it will. However, over the past decade I have learned to approach everything that comes from Blizzard with heavy pessimism. If I don't I'm bound to get devastated. "Blizzard wants to profit from BW" and "Blizzard wants to kill BW" are mutually exclusive notions. Blizzard very much does not want to kill BW. Except that is literally what happened with the KeSPA debacle. It's possible to have profit as so paramount a motive that unfair practices are enacted to get it. http://www.businessinsider.com/sears-obsession-with-wall-street-2016-3Not saying that's what's going on here. Here, I think there's some degree of execs just not "getting" it. "It" being the fact that BW was made a spectacular success independent of Blizzard, and that independence was a necessary factor. Hey, why don't you tell me what you think happened in the "KeSPA debacle." Rather than tell you what I think happened, I will tell you what actually happened, though I think you already know so I don't understand your combative rhetorical tone. What happened is, KeSPA had been the governing body of BroodWar for the better part of the decade and had cultivated what was admittedly already a popular RTS into what essentially became the genesis of professional e-sports as we know them today. All the while, countless BroodWar events were broadcasted and KeSPA and the networks were able to do so unmolested by Blizzard. Then, as Blizzard grew as a company and indeed had a sequel to BroodWar in the pipeline, they decided that they ought to just now, after the BroodWar community made BroodWar what it was, exercise their intellectual property rights. They were ultimately successful in this endeavor and it is now company policy to police tournaments this way, despite never having done so during the entire period when BW became what it was through grassroots effort, and continuing not to do so until they had a sequel in the works and were far richer as a company.
Blizzard was involved with talks with KeSPA since 2007 when the Proleague broadcasting rights controversy occurred, where KeSPA tried to sell the PL rights to a third party (IEG).
The impending release of StarCraft II in 2010 may have forced escalation of the conflict, but it's incorrect to say Blizzard swooped in from nowhere to "kill" BW and promote SC2 in 2010.
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On July 07 2017 13:21 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2017 13:10 Ancestral wrote:On July 07 2017 12:33 Waxangel wrote:On July 07 2017 06:57 Ancestral wrote:On July 07 2017 05:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On July 07 2017 02:12 Miragee wrote:On July 07 2017 01:35 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On July 06 2017 21:20 Miragee wrote:On July 06 2017 12:33 Jealous wrote:On July 06 2017 11:31 Ancestral wrote:
[quote]
:/
I didn't realize the case. I'm sure many remember clearly how Blizzard mustered a lot of manpower to try and destroy competitive BW in Korea to make way for their shiny new product. They did everything short of deploying brownshirts to smash every CD, computer, and server with the binary install files. After basically going to war with KeSPA, I guess maybe they are just back to their old tactics of trying to have complete control over the entire scene like they did with SCII, which ironically made it a non-starter in Korea, because BW was made great as a competitive game mostly through the work of the community.
I was conceptualizing it as mostly out of recognition for their own history that they decided to do Remastered, but you're right; the timing makes it look like they realized BW was going to succeed in Korea no matter how hard they opposed it, so they just decided that they might as well have control over it if it does.
I guess maybe 100 years from now or whenever BW is in the public domain, it can finally flourish unfettered. Fresh from the press. Thought you might find it relevant. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/522899-asl-team-battle-season-2?page=7#140Say it ain't so. EDIT: Just want to clarify that in my earlier post, all I stipulated was that Blizzard had not (yet?) given consent to Afreeca to run ATB. Now they have flat-out rejected it, according to K.J.H., who in my eyes has been a reliable source for Korean scene information as of late. Oh god, not again. Fuck Blizzard seriously. If they are going to destroy the BW scene a second time I hope from the bottom of my heart that they will go bankrupt as soon as possible. Activision Blizzard is a 40+ billion dollar company that is in the midst of a huge upsurge in terms of revenue and profitability and future outlook, so you might have to wait for a while for that. I know, it's a shame. On July 07 2017 01:37 BLinD-RawR wrote:On July 06 2017 21:20 Miragee wrote:On July 06 2017 12:33 Jealous wrote:On July 06 2017 11:31 Ancestral wrote:
[quote]
:/
I didn't realize the case. I'm sure many remember clearly how Blizzard mustered a lot of manpower to try and destroy competitive BW in Korea to make way for their shiny new product. They did everything short of deploying brownshirts to smash every CD, computer, and server with the binary install files. After basically going to war with KeSPA, I guess maybe they are just back to their old tactics of trying to have complete control over the entire scene like they did with SCII, which ironically made it a non-starter in Korea, because BW was made great as a competitive game mostly through the work of the community.
I was conceptualizing it as mostly out of recognition for their own history that they decided to do Remastered, but you're right; the timing makes it look like they realized BW was going to succeed in Korea no matter how hard they opposed it, so they just decided that they might as well have control over it if it does.
I guess maybe 100 years from now or whenever BW is in the public domain, it can finally flourish unfettered. Fresh from the press. Thought you might find it relevant. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/522899-asl-team-battle-season-2?page=7#140Say it ain't so. EDIT: Just want to clarify that in my earlier post, all I stipulated was that Blizzard had not (yet?) given consent to Afreeca to run ATB. Now they have flat-out rejected it, according to K.J.H., who in my eyes has been a reliable source for Korean scene information as of late. Oh god, not again. Fuck Blizzard seriously. If they are going to destroy the BW scene a second time I hope from the bottom of my heart that they will go bankrupt as soon as possible. the last 5 years are proof that killing BW is not as easy as that, calm down. Uh, BW took 4 years to somewhat recover from the last blow Blizzard dealt to the scene. It's still nowhere near back to what it was. I don't want to see what the scene might look like after another blow, sorry. On July 07 2017 01:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Blizzard doesn't want to kill BW, that's a silly notion. Err, you know what happened when they tried to force SC2 on the korean market, right? They pretty much wanted to kill BW and were quite vocal about it. Remember the speech Mike Morhaime did at the end of the last MSL (I think?) where he said everything good has come to an end someday and BW's day had come? The speech that made Kim Carrier cry? They don't care about BW one bit. They care about profit and advertisement. Since the SC2 scene is dwindeling and the BW scene is rising again, SC:R is pretty much the move to jump on the bandwagon and put their thumb on the scene and press it for revenue. Their continuous forceful acting speaks volumes. The sad thing is I think it will work out for them. Even if they end up splitting the community, dealing another fatal blow to the community in the long run, it won't hurt them. That's because the newcomers who will jump on the game due to SC:R will leave quickly again. Those will keep buying Blizzard products in the future and will probably even look at the whole SC:R thing and say that Blizzard did something good for all the fans and that BW would have never survived as long without it. This is because they don't know anything about the scene and what it went through and they weren't involved anywhere close enough to understand what Blizzard actually did. I know this all sounds very pessimistic. It might turn out to go all well and I really hope it will. However, over the past decade I have learned to approach everything that comes from Blizzard with heavy pessimism. If I don't I'm bound to get devastated. "Blizzard wants to profit from BW" and "Blizzard wants to kill BW" are mutually exclusive notions. Blizzard very much does not want to kill BW. Except that is literally what happened with the KeSPA debacle. It's possible to have profit as so paramount a motive that unfair practices are enacted to get it. http://www.businessinsider.com/sears-obsession-with-wall-street-2016-3Not saying that's what's going on here. Here, I think there's some degree of execs just not "getting" it. "It" being the fact that BW was made a spectacular success independent of Blizzard, and that independence was a necessary factor. Hey, why don't you tell me what you think happened in the "KeSPA debacle." Rather than tell you what I think happened, I will tell you what actually happened, though I think you already know so I don't understand your combative rhetorical tone. What happened is, KeSPA had been the governing body of BroodWar for the better part of the decade and had cultivated what was admittedly already a popular RTS into what essentially became the genesis of professional e-sports as we know them today. All the while, countless BroodWar events were broadcasted and KeSPA and the networks were able to do so unmolested by Blizzard. Then, as Blizzard grew as a company and indeed had a sequel to BroodWar in the pipeline, they decided that they ought to just now, after the BroodWar community made BroodWar what it was, exercise their intellectual property rights. They were ultimately successful in this endeavor and it is now company policy to police tournaments this way, despite never having done so during the entire period when BW became what it was through grassroots effort, and continuing not to do so until they had a sequel in the works and were far richer as a company. Blizzard was involved with talks with KeSPA since 2007 when the Proleague broadcasting rights controversy occurred, where KeSPA tried to sell the PL rights to a third party (IEG). The impending release of StarCraft II in 2010 may have forced escalation of the conflict, but it's incorrect to say Blizzard swooped in from nowhere to "kill" BW and promote SC2 in 2010.
Sure, it is incorrect to say that. Blizzard and/or it's employees made statements strongly implying that SC2 would replace BroodWar in the competitive scene though, which demonstrates extreme tone-deafness on their part in my opinion.
And yes, of course you're right about the proleague controversy being the catalyst. The SC2 announcement was imminent at that point, and as you noted that its impending release likely escalated the conflict, it only makes sense that Blizzard was especially wary of the precedent that could be set given they envisioned their new game replacing BW for the most part.
If I've implied I think Blizzard is evil empire, I've implied wrongly. Obviously, they deserve to make money for their work. But the cancelling of ATB seemingly for literally no reason other than the timing didn't coincide with their own release plans to me seems to reinforce a pattern of behavior on their part contrary to the flourishing of their own product.
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United States33699 Posts
On July 07 2017 13:27 Ancestral wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2017 13:21 Waxangel wrote:On July 07 2017 13:10 Ancestral wrote:On July 07 2017 12:33 Waxangel wrote:On July 07 2017 06:57 Ancestral wrote:On July 07 2017 05:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On July 07 2017 02:12 Miragee wrote:On July 07 2017 01:35 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On July 06 2017 21:20 Miragee wrote:On July 06 2017 12:33 Jealous wrote:[quote] Fresh from the press. Thought you might find it relevant. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/522899-asl-team-battle-season-2?page=7#140Say it ain't so. EDIT: Just want to clarify that in my earlier post, all I stipulated was that Blizzard had not (yet?) given consent to Afreeca to run ATB. Now they have flat-out rejected it, according to K.J.H., who in my eyes has been a reliable source for Korean scene information as of late. Oh god, not again. Fuck Blizzard seriously. If they are going to destroy the BW scene a second time I hope from the bottom of my heart that they will go bankrupt as soon as possible. Activision Blizzard is a 40+ billion dollar company that is in the midst of a huge upsurge in terms of revenue and profitability and future outlook, so you might have to wait for a while for that. I know, it's a shame. On July 07 2017 01:37 BLinD-RawR wrote:On July 06 2017 21:20 Miragee wrote:On July 06 2017 12:33 Jealous wrote:[quote] Fresh from the press. Thought you might find it relevant. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/522899-asl-team-battle-season-2?page=7#140Say it ain't so. EDIT: Just want to clarify that in my earlier post, all I stipulated was that Blizzard had not (yet?) given consent to Afreeca to run ATB. Now they have flat-out rejected it, according to K.J.H., who in my eyes has been a reliable source for Korean scene information as of late. Oh god, not again. Fuck Blizzard seriously. If they are going to destroy the BW scene a second time I hope from the bottom of my heart that they will go bankrupt as soon as possible. the last 5 years are proof that killing BW is not as easy as that, calm down. Uh, BW took 4 years to somewhat recover from the last blow Blizzard dealt to the scene. It's still nowhere near back to what it was. I don't want to see what the scene might look like after another blow, sorry. On July 07 2017 01:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Blizzard doesn't want to kill BW, that's a silly notion. Err, you know what happened when they tried to force SC2 on the korean market, right? They pretty much wanted to kill BW and were quite vocal about it. Remember the speech Mike Morhaime did at the end of the last MSL (I think?) where he said everything good has come to an end someday and BW's day had come? The speech that made Kim Carrier cry? They don't care about BW one bit. They care about profit and advertisement. Since the SC2 scene is dwindeling and the BW scene is rising again, SC:R is pretty much the move to jump on the bandwagon and put their thumb on the scene and press it for revenue. Their continuous forceful acting speaks volumes. The sad thing is I think it will work out for them. Even if they end up splitting the community, dealing another fatal blow to the community in the long run, it won't hurt them. That's because the newcomers who will jump on the game due to SC:R will leave quickly again. Those will keep buying Blizzard products in the future and will probably even look at the whole SC:R thing and say that Blizzard did something good for all the fans and that BW would have never survived as long without it. This is because they don't know anything about the scene and what it went through and they weren't involved anywhere close enough to understand what Blizzard actually did. I know this all sounds very pessimistic. It might turn out to go all well and I really hope it will. However, over the past decade I have learned to approach everything that comes from Blizzard with heavy pessimism. If I don't I'm bound to get devastated. "Blizzard wants to profit from BW" and "Blizzard wants to kill BW" are mutually exclusive notions. Blizzard very much does not want to kill BW. Except that is literally what happened with the KeSPA debacle. It's possible to have profit as so paramount a motive that unfair practices are enacted to get it. http://www.businessinsider.com/sears-obsession-with-wall-street-2016-3Not saying that's what's going on here. Here, I think there's some degree of execs just not "getting" it. "It" being the fact that BW was made a spectacular success independent of Blizzard, and that independence was a necessary factor. Hey, why don't you tell me what you think happened in the "KeSPA debacle." Rather than tell you what I think happened, I will tell you what actually happened, though I think you already know so I don't understand your combative rhetorical tone. What happened is, KeSPA had been the governing body of BroodWar for the better part of the decade and had cultivated what was admittedly already a popular RTS into what essentially became the genesis of professional e-sports as we know them today. All the while, countless BroodWar events were broadcasted and KeSPA and the networks were able to do so unmolested by Blizzard. Then, as Blizzard grew as a company and indeed had a sequel to BroodWar in the pipeline, they decided that they ought to just now, after the BroodWar community made BroodWar what it was, exercise their intellectual property rights. They were ultimately successful in this endeavor and it is now company policy to police tournaments this way, despite never having done so during the entire period when BW became what it was through grassroots effort, and continuing not to do so until they had a sequel in the works and were far richer as a company. Blizzard was involved with talks with KeSPA since 2007 when the Proleague broadcasting rights controversy occurred, where KeSPA tried to sell the PL rights to a third party (IEG). The impending release of StarCraft II in 2010 may have forced escalation of the conflict, but it's incorrect to say Blizzard swooped in from nowhere to "kill" BW and promote SC2 in 2010. Sure, it is incorrect to say that. Blizzard and/or it's employees made statements strongly implying that SC2 would replace BroodWar in the competitive scene though, which demonstrates extreme tone-deafness on their part in my opinion.
citation please
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On July 07 2017 13:34 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2017 13:27 Ancestral wrote:On July 07 2017 13:21 Waxangel wrote:On July 07 2017 13:10 Ancestral wrote:On July 07 2017 12:33 Waxangel wrote:On July 07 2017 06:57 Ancestral wrote:On July 07 2017 05:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On July 07 2017 02:12 Miragee wrote:On July 07 2017 01:35 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On July 06 2017 21:20 Miragee wrote:
[quote]
Oh god, not again. Fuck Blizzard seriously. If they are going to destroy the BW scene a second time I hope from the bottom of my heart that they will go bankrupt as soon as possible. Activision Blizzard is a 40+ billion dollar company that is in the midst of a huge upsurge in terms of revenue and profitability and future outlook, so you might have to wait for a while for that. I know, it's a shame. On July 07 2017 01:37 BLinD-RawR wrote:On July 06 2017 21:20 Miragee wrote:
[quote]
Oh god, not again. Fuck Blizzard seriously. If they are going to destroy the BW scene a second time I hope from the bottom of my heart that they will go bankrupt as soon as possible. the last 5 years are proof that killing BW is not as easy as that, calm down. Uh, BW took 4 years to somewhat recover from the last blow Blizzard dealt to the scene. It's still nowhere near back to what it was. I don't want to see what the scene might look like after another blow, sorry. On July 07 2017 01:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Blizzard doesn't want to kill BW, that's a silly notion. Err, you know what happened when they tried to force SC2 on the korean market, right? They pretty much wanted to kill BW and were quite vocal about it. Remember the speech Mike Morhaime did at the end of the last MSL (I think?) where he said everything good has come to an end someday and BW's day had come? The speech that made Kim Carrier cry? They don't care about BW one bit. They care about profit and advertisement. Since the SC2 scene is dwindeling and the BW scene is rising again, SC:R is pretty much the move to jump on the bandwagon and put their thumb on the scene and press it for revenue. Their continuous forceful acting speaks volumes. The sad thing is I think it will work out for them. Even if they end up splitting the community, dealing another fatal blow to the community in the long run, it won't hurt them. That's because the newcomers who will jump on the game due to SC:R will leave quickly again. Those will keep buying Blizzard products in the future and will probably even look at the whole SC:R thing and say that Blizzard did something good for all the fans and that BW would have never survived as long without it. This is because they don't know anything about the scene and what it went through and they weren't involved anywhere close enough to understand what Blizzard actually did. I know this all sounds very pessimistic. It might turn out to go all well and I really hope it will. However, over the past decade I have learned to approach everything that comes from Blizzard with heavy pessimism. If I don't I'm bound to get devastated. "Blizzard wants to profit from BW" and "Blizzard wants to kill BW" are mutually exclusive notions. Blizzard very much does not want to kill BW. Except that is literally what happened with the KeSPA debacle. It's possible to have profit as so paramount a motive that unfair practices are enacted to get it. http://www.businessinsider.com/sears-obsession-with-wall-street-2016-3Not saying that's what's going on here. Here, I think there's some degree of execs just not "getting" it. "It" being the fact that BW was made a spectacular success independent of Blizzard, and that independence was a necessary factor. Hey, why don't you tell me what you think happened in the "KeSPA debacle." Rather than tell you what I think happened, I will tell you what actually happened, though I think you already know so I don't understand your combative rhetorical tone. What happened is, KeSPA had been the governing body of BroodWar for the better part of the decade and had cultivated what was admittedly already a popular RTS into what essentially became the genesis of professional e-sports as we know them today. All the while, countless BroodWar events were broadcasted and KeSPA and the networks were able to do so unmolested by Blizzard. Then, as Blizzard grew as a company and indeed had a sequel to BroodWar in the pipeline, they decided that they ought to just now, after the BroodWar community made BroodWar what it was, exercise their intellectual property rights. They were ultimately successful in this endeavor and it is now company policy to police tournaments this way, despite never having done so during the entire period when BW became what it was through grassroots effort, and continuing not to do so until they had a sequel in the works and were far richer as a company. Blizzard was involved with talks with KeSPA since 2007 when the Proleague broadcasting rights controversy occurred, where KeSPA tried to sell the PL rights to a third party (IEG). The impending release of StarCraft II in 2010 may have forced escalation of the conflict, but it's incorrect to say Blizzard swooped in from nowhere to "kill" BW and promote SC2 in 2010. Sure, it is incorrect to say that. Blizzard and/or it's employees made statements strongly implying that SC2 would replace BroodWar in the competitive scene though, which demonstrates extreme tone-deafness on their part in my opinion. citation please
An employee of Blizzard said something along the lines of "all good things come to an end" or "nothing lasts forever." Someone else commented on it in this thread or the other one where this is being discussed. I also remember it happening. However, he and I may be collectively insane.
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TLADT24920 Posts
I think you are talking about Mike Morhaime at the last OSL finals?
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On July 07 2017 13:47 BigFan wrote:
I think you are talking about Mike Morhaime at the last OSL finals?
That sounds correct, yes, thanks. It wasn't totally explicit, but it pushes the limits of credulity to say there was no such implication given it occurred exactly when the transition to SCII only was occurring.
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Maybe he was talking about how the OSL was ending lol
Do you remember him rubbing his hands together on stage, cackling with an evil laugh as well?
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That's what I imagine the whole board of directors do at Activision-Blizzard do all day. Interspersed with the occasional food and toilet breaks in between.
Toi be fair though there did seem to be a definate undercurrent of trying to sink BW to push SC2 sales in the phrasing and actions of Blizzard. Now of course the opposite will be true, but without the sinking of SC2.
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United States33699 Posts
On July 07 2017 22:51 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Toi be fair though there did seem to be a definate undercurrent of trying to sink BW to push SC2 sales in the phrasing and actions of Blizzard. Now of course the opposite will be true, but without the sinking of SC2.
again: citation, please (I'm still waiting for the actual videos/text on the previous quotes too)
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Baa?21247 Posts
On July 07 2017 06:19 B-royal wrote:
Because they're mutually exclusive as intentions does not mean both things can not happen at the same time. Death due to ignorance or incompetence while blizzard squeezes some last bucks out of the inextricable hype that comes with the remaster.
I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Blizzard will do everything it can to try to keep BW alive because Blizzard wants to profit from it. If you're suggesting Blizzard is incompetent, the immense success and popularity, and more importantly, profitability, of their titles indicates otherwise.
On July 07 2017 06:31 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2017 06:19 B-royal wrote:
Because they're mutually exclusive as intentions does not mean both things can not happen at the same time. Death due to ignorance or incompetence while blizzard squeezes some last bucks out of the inextricable hype that comes with the remaster.
This. Also, making money off of hype and a "booming" scene now doesn't mean they intend or try to make money with BW in the long run.
They'll make money as long as there's money to be made, Blizzard is pretty good at that. Blizzard doesn't become as profitable as it does by willfully killing off profit streams, nor by neglecting profit streams and causing their decline.
The release of SC:R represents for the first time in history when Blizzard's profits are, in theory, directly aligned with the BW esports scene, a relationship that was much more abstract and difficult to measure, if not outright nonexistent, in ~2000 - 2010, give or take.
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I find it very curious to see that a lot of people think, Blizzard would care about BW for more than maybe the first year after remastered has been released. They might even sponsor one tournament, but I wouldn't be under the illusion that you can expect anything more from Blizzard than the bare minimum that is not shutting down the official servers exactly like they did in the past.
I think it is very likely that history will repeat itself, the official servers will again be abandoned in favor of private servers as soon as the first hacks arrive and next to no counter-measures happen.
It wouldn't even surprise me to see something similar to the "Mike Morhaime" speech in an ASL semi-finals in 5 years (if "Pro"-BW can make it that far), telling us to go play SC3. But they might also just not approve a tour at all if there is an upcoming release date for a game in the RTS genre as is their current agenda.
Having that in mind, it is actually good, that matchmaking won't be possible with 1.18, as private servers won't be completely abandoned then and can survive until the official b.net becomes trash.
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On July 08 2017 03:46 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2017 22:51 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Toi be fair though there did seem to be a definate undercurrent of trying to sink BW to push SC2 sales in the phrasing and actions of Blizzard. Now of course the opposite will be true, but without the sinking of SC2. again: citation, please (I'm still waiting for the actual videos/text on the previous quotes too)
It's your choice to disbelieve the collective memory of several people who watched a video. I'm not going to hunt down the entire OSL finals video. The games are easy to find, but the whole broadcast less so. If you feel better thinking that it didn't happen, go for it.
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15$ who cares they said one thing and changed their mind. total non issue. 15 bucks is chump change and they're probably not gonna even turn a profit on this - so its cool they even did this new version in the first place. i support blizzard and will shell out money in appreciation
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EPT
