EPTStarcraft Brood war HD remaster - Page 15
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This is NOT a BW vs SC2 topic thread. Be cautious of what you post. Starting Page 26, warnings/bans will be handed out if this note is ignored. | ||
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castleeMg
Canada786 Posts
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Lazix
Australia378 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States14000 Posts
On August 07 2016 03:10 blade55555 wrote: Regardless of peoples opinions on Blizzards games, one thing I think everyone can agree on is that they are very polished. I would be very shocked if they released BW HD remake with the problems that aoe2hd had. It's why I like Blizzard games a lot (well sc1/2 and diablo  ).Its like Halo MCC, except this will actually work | ||
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Ingvar
Russian Federation421 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
On August 07 2016 04:42 Ingvar wrote: If it means a need for rebalance - I would take a chance on it. You might, but I'm close to certain the top korean scene wont, and if they wont I wont. Keep the pathing, keep the exciting "stupid" scarabs, keep it all. | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
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Shinokuki
United States924 Posts
On August 07 2016 04:42 Ingvar wrote: If they are actually making it a remake, I hope they make SOME changes. Okay, I can live without MBS and more than 12 units in control group (though I'm not sure how much people would buy such a game). However, you just can't have shitty AI like goliaths and dragoons in a game in 2016. And scarabs, motherfucking scarabs. If it means a need for rebalance - I would take a chance on it. This indicates you don't know anything about retarded scrab AI. A good player can get 8/10 scrab to work while bad player can get 2/10 to work. Its also skills. | ||
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Espers
United Kingdom606 Posts
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Mistakes
United States1102 Posts
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Ingvar
Russian Federation421 Posts
On August 07 2016 05:01 Shinokuki wrote: This indicates you don't know anything about retarded scrab AI. A good player can get 8/10 scrab to work while bad player can get 2/10 to work. Its also skills. While it is skills, it is also bad game design. While SC:BW is one of the best games of all time, it isn't perfect. While I understand a natural fear of changing a game which last balance patch was in 2001, I don't take every single aspect of it as a religious dogma. And if there is a chance of making a game better, I don't see why I shouldn't welcome it. Pathing and overkill and limited control are essential for BW - there is no need to change it. Inability of a dragoon to walk down a ramp is not essential. I mean, some of Starcraft coding was shitty even for 1998 - compare it with AoE II which was released a year later; and code is not wine or whiskey, 18 years don't make it better. | ||
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Shinokuki
United States924 Posts
On August 07 2016 05:47 Ingvar wrote: While it is skills, it is also bad game design. While SC:BW is one of the best games of all time, it isn't perfect. While I understand a natural fear of changing a game which last balance patch was in 2001, I don't take every single aspect of it as a religious dogma. And if there is a chance of making a game better, I don't see why I shouldn't welcome it. Pathing and overkill and limited control are essential for BW - there is no need to change it. Inability of a dragoon to walk down a ramp is not essential. I mean, some of Starcraft coding was shitty even for 1998 - compare it with AoE II which was released a year later; and code is not wine or whiskey, 18 years don't make it better. Yeah thats my point. don't change obviously important aspect of bw. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On August 07 2016 05:47 Ingvar wrote: While it is skills, it is also bad game design. While SC:BW is one of the best games of all time, it isn't perfect. While I understand a natural fear of changing a game which last balance patch was in 2001, I don't take every single aspect of it as a religious dogma. And if there is a chance of making a game better, I don't see why I shouldn't welcome it. Pathing and overkill and limited control are essential for BW - there is no need to change it. Inability of a dragoon to walk down a ramp is not essential. I mean, some of Starcraft coding was shitty even for 1998 - compare it with AoE II which was released a year later; and code is not wine or whiskey, 18 years don't make it better. @Ingvar, there are things that shouldn't be done because they are bad and there are things that are good but shouldn't be done because it can lead to a slippery slope argument. Now this is going to be an opinion thing of course because everyone has their own splits between bugs and features in Broodwar. If you use the reason of 'fixing the pathing makes it a better game because bad pathing doesn't anything to the game' for changing the AI, then how are you not able to justify other things like changing overkill and limited control? You could just as easily say 'removing 12 unit control limit makes it a better game because it is oppressive to new players.' I rather not even get into those arguments and only fix things that break the game like the sprite limit breaking valks, the color issues, hackers on West, obs on top of turrets breaking turrets etc. You might want to checkout Day[9]'s recent BW talk about how all these weird BW quirks lead to interesting playstyle consequences here: | ||
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brancy
2 Posts
Also i saw bw in bnet shop that theres an sc bw played with bnet acc so its probably gonna work. but i trust blizzard they wont screw it up | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
in 2014: I'm playing a lot of Hearthstone right now for reasons that have nothing to do with my opinion of SC2 in 2016: Here is why BW is better than SC2. | ||
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brancy
2 Posts
the question is what will happen with all those helpfull mods (like the mod editors e.g: scmdraft) if they make a small change in the engine/data none (or most) of the old maps wont work (and admit it there are a bunch of maps accumulated over 18 years | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14000 Posts
On August 07 2016 04:42 Ingvar wrote: If they are actually making it a remake, I hope they make SOME changes. Okay, I can live without MBS and more than 12 units in control group (though I'm not sure how much people would buy such a game). However, you just can't have shitty AI like goliaths and dragoons in a game in 2016. And scarabs, motherfucking scarabs. If it means a need for rebalance - I would take a chance on it. Plz no. Dont change anything. Keep the old voice acting as well. Just update graphics plz. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Templarfreak
United States39 Posts
On August 07 2016 04:58 ProMeTheus112 wrote: You know what would be nice, give more modability to Starcraft by extending the map editor and maybe giving access to some code so that we can make some mods to experiment with patching it ourselves. StarCraft GPTP and BWAPI are exactly this. Both of which expose a lot of BW's natives and make it much easier to code new functions. You still have to search through BW with a hex editor or RAM watcher to modify existing code, but you can add new code EZ-PZ. Burning Ground and StarCraft Revolution both heavily use GPTP while AI mods make a lot of use of BWAPI. | ||
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heronn
34 Posts
Next they should balance some totaly unused units like e.g.: - Scout: decreased cost to 250m 100g; - Ghost: Lockdown cost decreased to 75 energy and range increased to 10 (like ghost wep range); - Corsair: little increase web lenght. | ||
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
On August 07 2016 05:47 Ingvar wrote: While it is skills, it is also bad game design. While SC:BW is one of the best games of all time, it isn't perfect. While I understand a natural fear of changing a game which last balance patch was in 2001, I don't take every single aspect of it as a religious dogma. And if there is a chance of making a game better, I don't see why I shouldn't welcome it. Pathing and overkill and limited control are essential for BW - there is no need to change it. Inability of a dragoon to walk down a ramp is not essential. I mean, some of Starcraft coding was shitty even for 1998 - compare it with AoE II which was released a year later; and code is not wine or whiskey, 18 years don't make it better. the central problem is: any change will affect balance in a major way. improve goon pathing? Big impact on racial balance in PvT and PvZ. improve scarab AI? Reavers might be OP after that. And im not even talking about changing a single unit stat. These flaws are surely no example of great game design, but have contributed their part to racial balance. "fix" them and racial balance will shift. And we don't need that. Racial balance is very good in BW, in fact better than Blizzard ever made it happen in Sc2 and they really tried hard there. If you don't understand why it's so impactful- play the game a lot and you'll notice. On August 07 2016 16:26 heronn wrote: Imo players should have possibility to select 24 "double units" like zergling. Next they should balance some totaly unused units like e.g.: - Scout: decreased cost to 250m 100g; - Ghost: Lockdown cost decreased to 75 energy and range increased to 10 (like ghost wep range); - Corsair: little increase web lenght. bigger selection groups for lings are just broken. The limit of control groups has to be considered as balance factor that inhibits crackling/swarm from being to powerful in the lategame. | ||
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