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On June 06 2014 07:58 miercat wrote:
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Yeah, I got it. Broken down it's still: More viewers -> ??? -> Profit. It doesn't work that way. It's happening in Korea and it will stay in Korea, read Chef's post above yours. Your point is legit, you want to have Korean games with English commentary. Good for you, honestly. Anyhow, let's move on.
If you want more casters - general word of advice - don't be a viewer only and give feedback. There's nothing worse than just having 50-100 viewers, who never say shit.
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"Key" in the sense that TL was the best place to find detailed information about the Korean scene, and promoted interest in BW in this manner.
Ask yourself what type of person went looking for info about the Korean scene on TL. I think it would be the type of person who came from another StarCraft forum, already played lots of SC, had looked for SWEET STRATS on the internet to get an edge in their game, found pimpest plays, and heard that holy crap Koreans play this game professionally?? Sadly the shock value of that is lost in this age of esports, and for someone who is still amazed by that they are going to try out the ones that are current and still filling stadiums than the one that is old. And people looking for sweet strats are teenagers playing the latest games. So where exactly does the influx of people materialize from in this current day?
I love the game, but the game itself being good is not enough. I really am skeptical how much English casts are going to do to bring people in who aren't playing the game. People who don't know anything about a thing will watch it only if it is already insanely popular. We're missing lots of steps. Insightful commentary only matters to people who want to learn how to play better; exciting commentary is already covered by the Koreans but still requires a pre-existing interest in the idea of it and the game (over other games with exciting commentary). Getting that massive core base of players back is the real problem, those people interested in sweet strats. Even all the diehards of Brood War are too old and too living real life to care about being good at StarCraft anymore. I wonder if that is a problem that is possible to solve in the foreign community anymore.
~~I apologize for a very dismissing and negative post here. I only think that whether you agree with everything I say or not, these are things to be pondered if you are asking questions about the future of foreign Brood War.
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On June 06 2014 06:45 Epoxide wrote:
All I see is want want want. No do.
I might be able to write a Power Rank article if you can confirm that no one else is doing one after LoveTV SL #2 finishes; it's been a while since the last one and a mid year Power Rank article can really let people catch up to date with who's the top players now and who to look out for.
Speaking of "no do", what happened to that liquipedia banner based off of Hyde's SSL9 preview that I suggested a while back? 
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On June 06 2014 06:23 GeckoXp wrote:
Foreign tournaments survived without Korean support for long, even alleged "shit stuff" like the BGH tours / Possi Leagues still run and have an active community. I'm not sure if you think Korea is the only true form of BW or something (not saying that you did), but it sure sounds elitist. Let's just promote whatever, but don't be ignorant and focus on one aspect alone, or while I'm at it, try to unite all the sub communities we have. There's a huge amount of B-net players, who never heard about TL, or if they did, prolly wouldn't find it too interesting, giving that the focus of the audience is so... focused on Koreans.
Well, might be just me. Shouldn't sound as if I want the Koreans to stop what they do, or coverage people to stop giving information (thanks JohnChoi et al.), just... broaden your view a little.
I think not just foreign tournaments but the smaller amateur/special event korean tournaments survived through the times (although most of them seem to be a very small yet fanatical following now). Things like various fish leagues, different clan leagues, team leagues, sonic leagues (the stuff that was running while the BW proscene was still running; the stuff i didn't even know existed  ) and others still run because there's still an interest for it and there are players who play in it!
I can totally agree with this part:
There's a huge amount of B-net players, who never heard about TL, or if they did, prolly wouldn't find it too interesting, giving that the focus of the audience is so... focused on Koreans.
back in 06/07 when I was playing on US west with my friend, I was aware of the existence of TL but I wasn't really interested in following proscenes (although my friend did and updated me on who won what and who's doing awesome) or joining the community. My main interest was replays and/or build order and most of the times I was on TL it was from a google search of some sort haha
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Well I personally know that just seeing english streamers talk about the game and play is good enough to get new people interested.
The whole reason I'm here now is because the snipealot streams are going, and they're speaking only korean. My old highschool friends never were interested in Brood War because there was always the idea that only Koreans can play the game. People streaming the game was for me my #1 influence.
To me I feel like casts of tournaments or other types of tournament coverage fulfill the retention of a newcomer, but do not so much attract new people.
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On June 06 2014 08:12 GeckoXp wrote:Yeah, I got it. Broken down it's still: More viewers -> ??? -> Profit. It doesn't work that way. It's happening in Korea and it will stay in Korea, read Chef's post above yours. Your point is legit, you want to have Korean games with English commentary. Good for you, honestly. Anyhow, let's move on. If you want more casters - general word of advice - don't be a viewer only and give feedback. There's nothing worse than just having 50-100 viewers, who never say shit.
Well, I already provided an example of it working exactly that way. And the alternatives you mentioned will certainly achieve much less. As I said, it's the best option of those available.
I read Chef's post, and I didn't so much see it as being "negative" or "dismissive", but more, inaccurate and irrelevant: the main point was severely flawed: People won't start watching something they don't know about, unless it's already insanely popular?
1) Well, the Korean casters have mentioned before that: BW is so entertaining, that even somebody who has no idea about the game, will still find it enjoyable to watch (especially with commentary). This is true.
2) And, actually, BW did not start out being insanely popular, either in the Korean or Foreign scene. It built up and became popular due to it's inherent strength as a game, and it's unmatched entertainment value. It can easily due so again (it was still highly popular with viewers even in the most recent Pro Leages) - it's just a matter of re-establishing the Pro-Scene - everything will flow easier from this. (I mentioned before why focusing primarily on other things will lead to significant limitations, in any case)
3) The GOMTV seasons showed that BW can be highly popular with foreign audience - it's just a matter of access=English casts of Korean events.
Basically, history and logic has already proven his argument is terrible, and if you're placing any value in it, I would revise your position.
The question was "what will promote the most interest in BW", and from the overall standpoint the answer is still English casts of Korean events.
But yes - I think my point has been proven - let's move on.
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No, what happens in Korea with BW, is of primary importance any case(regarding bringing new viewers on the same scale as before), which I've already stated. The current semi-pro state is not sufficient - and this is the problem more than anything else.
By the way, the question was "what would promote interest in BW". And right now, it's about choosing the best, from not so good options - which is still English commentary of Korean events. But thanks for completely missing the point again.
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I read thread title and knew who/what they were talking about.
I recall those images being all over br.com for quite a while.
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Hello oldtimers. Jaedong vs Stork showmatch tomorrow over at HSC. Could be cool. Or shit. Either way consider yourselves informed.
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Netherlands5963 Posts
On June 07 2014 05:19 AlternativeEgo wrote:
Hello oldtimers. Jaedong vs Stork showmatch tomorrow over at HSC. Could be cool. Or shit. Either way consider yourselves informed.
HSC?
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On June 07 2014 05:36 Peeano wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2014 05:19 AlternativeEgo wrote:
Hello oldtimers. Jaedong vs Stork showmatch tomorrow over at HSC. Could be cool. Or shit. Either way consider yourselves informed. HSC?
some sc2 tournament
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I believe the showmatch was initially going to be subscriber based, it was only going to occur if they got a specific amount of subs. But looks like it's gonna happen now regardless. I'm excited!
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Don't get me wrong, I'm super happy, I just hope it's gonna be better than the last Jaedong vs ForGG thing. That was kinda bad, gameplay wise
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What ever happened to these OSL casts? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/107318-day-osl-cast
I was just listening to Day9's daily of him vs xellos and at the end he mentioned he was going to cast the osl, so i started to look for the osl vods however in that thread it links you to day9 old ustream channel there are no more vods on it, and it states that all the vods were moved to blip.tv so i go to blip.tv go through his vods no osl casts
damn it, i youtubed "day9 osl" and variations nothing turns up
Are these vods lost? anyone have them, i know i use to torrent all the bw osl,msl, proleagues via teamliquid's old torrent thing (which btw was freaken amazing!!) please tell me someone torrented the day9 osl casts :D
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oh there's a good way i think to attract new players/viewers
anyone here good at map making?
edit: as for CASTS i think it's a little premature asking such things because it's so much work to do / ask someone to do
also, proper casts comes with proper production work i doubt anybody would do for bw
(nothing big / complicated, just proper setup, sound, music, material organisation etc)
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Bisutopia19392 Posts
On June 08 2014 21:30 Boonbag wrote:
oh there's a good way i think to attract new players/viewers
anyone here good at map making?
edit: as for CASTS i think it's a little premature asking such things because it's so much work to do / ask someone to do
also, proper casts comes with proper production work i doubt anybody would do for bw
(nothing big / complicated, just proper setup, sound, music, material organisation etc)
The issue for me is that sonic and Lovetv games start at 9am. If they started at 5am like GSL I'd be able to cast the majority of them. Recasting in the afternoon is time consuming and rl is busy for me.
As for a weekend foreign tournament. I would host a crowd funded weekend tournament and split the prize pool among the top 3. But I don't see myself having a full weekend till mid July.
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On June 08 2014 23:07 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2014 21:30 Boonbag wrote:
oh there's a good way i think to attract new players/viewers
anyone here good at map making?
edit: as for CASTS i think it's a little premature asking such things because it's so much work to do / ask someone to do
also, proper casts comes with proper production work i doubt anybody would do for bw
(nothing big / complicated, just proper setup, sound, music, material organisation etc) The issue for me is that sonic and Lovetv games start at 9am. If they started at 5am like GSL I'd be able to cast the majority of them. Recasting in the afternoon is time consuming and rl is busy for me. As for a weekend foreign tournament. I would host a crowd funded weekend tournament and split the prize pool among the top 3. But I don't see myself having a full weekend till mid July.
i'm not certain of this, but i believe the way things are now is good aka, only cast the big important kr events in english like it already happened
i think what would attract ppl would be featured content on TL page, aka articles about current leagues (like we already have now more or less) but maybe with a new formating
also u can integrate the english cast outside the live time in the posts and give access to random potential audience to the biggest thing right away
the thing is, without a constant and shiny coverage, it wont be possible to convey the feel that the kr scene is alive and well (somewhat)
if you make the events sound as big and official as MSL / OSL / PL were
i mean it's already the case to some extent but i imagine bw beeing especially understaffed
hence the change in the coverage type / format
like, the small vod thread is prolly whats the most important in all the forum, yet its like a hidden treasure if youre the regular public
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I'll cast a korean league if someone explains how to make the vods!
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EPT
