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BW General Discussion - Page 276

Forum Index > BW General
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chozen86
Profile Blog Joined May 2017
United States60 Posts
March 21 2019 20:06 GMT
#5501
this is really interesting! makes it even more important (to me) that AlphaStar (for most of the showmatch series) never had to switch screens (basically had something like a "whole-map" view to operate from (see, e.g., https://www.alexirpan.com/2019/02/22/alphastar.html)
mishimaBeef
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada2259 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-03-22 14:21:40
March 22 2019 14:15 GMT
#5502
On March 22 2019 20:30 mishimaBeef wrote:
aha that reminded me of an idea i had a while back

seeing as how balance is tightly coupled to the map design, is there any good that can come from matchup specific maps?

creating a cool and interesting map for one particular matchup can be done but most times will be imbalanced for some other matchup

maps that are required to fit all 6 matchups greatly reduces the space for innovation and creativity

i think this might be the number one way to breathe fresh ideas into the game without touching any of the core gameplay mechanics. all that is required is a paradigm shift away from the idea that every map is made to fit all matchups.


On March 22 2019 22:07 mozzybw wrote:
I tend to agree, if new, obscure maps were to be introduced fairly sporadically in tournaments, it wouldn't lend too much time to exposing any particular race's major strengths or weaknesses. Could lead to some cool on the spot strats.


On March 22 2019 22:50 mishimaBeef wrote:
ah okay, maybe i didn't fully clarify my idea but it is to have maps that are only played for certain matchups

for example, it is round of 8 in ASL, and for each match, one of the games (perhaps game 2?) is played on a matchup specific map. these maps are highly tuned for the given matchup and are not played on outside of the given matchup. so if it were a TvZ match, then map 2 will be on "the TvZ map"... in another match, say PvZ, then map 2 will be played on "the PvZ map".

the reason this method works is that there is no risk of exposing a weakness of a particular race/matchup for the map because the map is specifically designed to only be played on for a certain matchup

basically the point is to tune towards innovative timings for specific matchups without having to worry about screwing things up with regards to timings in another matchup

off the cuff example: a PvP map (or more generally a mirror match map?) where a 3rd base is very easy to secure. of course this would not be balanced to my understanding in say TvZ since terran will too easily secure a 3rd. no problem though, since the map wouldn't be played for TvZ, there would be a different matchup specific map played for TvZ matches

another quick example: having multiple paths to the main or wider ramps, which would not do well in matches where it's Zerg vs Not-Zerg

maybe these matchup specific maps can be flavored to tie into the lore as well? either through doodads, or naming or what not. and for televised matches would certainly make for some interesting commentary for the typically slower first few minutes of the game.


reposted here for visibility and discussion
(from: Can we talk about Broodwar's underused units? -- https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/544549-can-we-talk-about-broodwars-underused-units?view=all)
Dare to live the life you have dreamed for yourself. Go forward and make your dreams come true. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
chozen86
Profile Blog Joined May 2017
United States60 Posts
March 22 2019 15:36 GMT
#5503
On March 22 2019 23:15 mishimaBeef wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2019 20:30 mishimaBeef wrote:
aha that reminded me of an idea i had a while back

seeing as how balance is tightly coupled to the map design, is there any good that can come from matchup specific maps?

creating a cool and interesting map for one particular matchup can be done but most times will be imbalanced for some other matchup

maps that are required to fit all 6 matchups greatly reduces the space for innovation and creativity

i think this might be the number one way to breathe fresh ideas into the game without touching any of the core gameplay mechanics. all that is required is a paradigm shift away from the idea that every map is made to fit all matchups.


Show nested quote +
On March 22 2019 22:07 mozzybw wrote:
I tend to agree, if new, obscure maps were to be introduced fairly sporadically in tournaments, it wouldn't lend too much time to exposing any particular race's major strengths or weaknesses. Could lead to some cool on the spot strats.


Show nested quote +
On March 22 2019 22:50 mishimaBeef wrote:
ah okay, maybe i didn't fully clarify my idea but it is to have maps that are only played for certain matchups

for example, it is round of 8 in ASL, and for each match, one of the games (perhaps game 2?) is played on a matchup specific map. these maps are highly tuned for the given matchup and are not played on outside of the given matchup. so if it were a TvZ match, then map 2 will be on "the TvZ map"... in another match, say PvZ, then map 2 will be played on "the PvZ map".

the reason this method works is that there is no risk of exposing a weakness of a particular race/matchup for the map because the map is specifically designed to only be played on for a certain matchup

basically the point is to tune towards innovative timings for specific matchups without having to worry about screwing things up with regards to timings in another matchup

off the cuff example: a PvP map (or more generally a mirror match map?) where a 3rd base is very easy to secure. of course this would not be balanced to my understanding in say TvZ since terran will too easily secure a 3rd. no problem though, since the map wouldn't be played for TvZ, there would be a different matchup specific map played for TvZ matches

another quick example: having multiple paths to the main or wider ramps, which would not do well in matches where it's Zerg vs Not-Zerg

maybe these matchup specific maps can be flavored to tie into the lore as well? either through doodads, or naming or what not. and for televised matches would certainly make for some interesting commentary for the typically slower first few minutes of the game.


reposted here for visibility and discussion
(from: Can we talk about Broodwar's underused units? -- https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/544549-can-we-talk-about-broodwars-underused-units?view=all)


Love this idea!! Could maybe trial run in SPTL? Or do a showmatch series based on a few interesting new map designs?
oxKnu
Profile Joined December 2017
1260 Posts
March 22 2019 19:35 GMT
#5504
So which pros are participating in the KSL qualifiers coming up? Which are not?
AntiHack
Profile Joined January 2009
Switzerland553 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-03-23 13:33:11
March 23 2019 13:30 GMT
#5505
We have 35k ppl watching a brand new Pro League... I'm speechless

EDIT: 40k
"I am very tired of your grammar errors" - Zoler[MB]
jiujiu
Profile Joined March 2019
4 Posts
March 23 2019 15:35 GMT
#5506
--- Nuked ---
AntiHack
Profile Joined January 2009
Switzerland553 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-03-23 18:15:16
March 23 2019 16:25 GMT
#5507
On March 24 2019 00:35 jiujiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 23 2019 22:30 AntiHack wrote:
We have 35k ppl watching a brand new Pro League... I'm speechless

EDIT: 40k

I assume Britney is streaming it. Why are you speechless? What K-Pop singer is sitting next to him?

Jelous 2019 troll?
It was 25k already without Britney. And btw I'm more amazed by having a successful new tournaments in a 21 years old videogame then the numbers itself.

Now tell me from which "successful" esport is you coming from to come here trolling in the BW forum?
"I am very tired of your grammar errors" - Zoler[MB]
jiujiu
Profile Joined March 2019
4 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-03-23 16:57:53
March 23 2019 16:57 GMT
#5508
--- Nuked ---
AntiHack
Profile Joined January 2009
Switzerland553 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-03-23 18:18:01
March 23 2019 17:24 GMT
#5509
On March 24 2019 01:57 jiujiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2019 01:25 AntiHack wrote:
On March 24 2019 00:35 jiujiu wrote:
On March 23 2019 22:30 AntiHack wrote:
We have 35k ppl watching a brand new Pro League... I'm speechless

EDIT: 40k

I assume Britney is streaming it. Why are you speechless? What K-Pop singer is sitting next to him?

Jelous 2019 troll?
It was 25k already without Britney. And btw I'm more amazed by having new successful new tournaments in a 21 years old videogame then the numbers itself.

Now tell me from which "successful" esport is you coming from to come here trolling in the BW forum?

The game doesnt drive those numbers, its the faces. If it would be about the game, it would still fill stadiums. There wasnt much going on before Flash and Jaedong returned

Oh! you're a sc1 history expert now! [Sarcasm]
How many viewers had KSL season 1 finals anf how many kpop singers were streaming with Britney?

You still have to answer my question, which uber successful esport filled your ego to come up with those bold statements?

Also, where's the "ignore troll" button in this forum?

Edit: Faces of who? Players? Omg champions "faces" helping the audience of a sport! That's a revolution!!

User was warned for this post.
"I am very tired of your grammar errors" - Zoler[MB]
lohoh
Profile Joined March 2019
1 Post
March 23 2019 21:27 GMT
#5510
--- Nuked ---
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10337 Posts
March 23 2019 21:35 GMT
#5511
We're having back-to-back BW events all day today, with some overlap. BSL, Qikz vs. Doc, LMaster's All-Stars, KSL...

All I wanted to say is that this is fucking awesome.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
Ty2
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United States1434 Posts
March 23 2019 23:02 GMT
#5512
--- Nuked ---
Writer
Broodwar4lyf
Profile Blog Joined February 2016
304 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-03-24 03:39:25
March 24 2019 03:29 GMT
#5513
KSL 3 Qualifiers on twitch atm

https://www.twitch.tv/starcraft_kr
https://cinesnipe.com
oxKnu
Profile Joined December 2017
1260 Posts
March 24 2019 14:11 GMT
#5514
Flash is practicing like crazy on the KSL maps right now. So I guess he is entering KSL after all. Wow.
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10045 Posts
March 24 2019 18:33 GMT
#5515
New vulture instant attack after laying mines:

ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
onlystar
Profile Joined March 2015
United States971 Posts
March 24 2019 20:32 GMT
#5516
^ that is just sick
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5221 Posts
March 25 2019 00:36 GMT
#5517
Flash just broke 1400 barrier on sponbbang Elo. Cool.
The heart's eternal vow
SchAmToo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1141 Posts
March 25 2019 18:33 GMT
#5518
On March 25 2019 03:33 TT1 wrote:
New vulture instant attack after laying mines:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4ZdNF-_2vs&feature=youtu.be


Is that shift+hold-position after mine drop command?
twitch.tv/schamtoo | twitter.com/schamtoo
Jan1997
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
Norway671 Posts
March 25 2019 21:59 GMT
#5519
BW seems to have gained popularity since last time I played. (Last summer) logging in to play some ladder games and there's like 50-60 people on EN-1 compared to like 10-15 last year. That's great. Que times are way down too.
Do something today that your future self will be thankful for.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
March 28 2019 02:14 GMT
#5520
Anyone know when EffOrt is leaving to the military?
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
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