EPTOn February 20 2018 14:38 jinjin5000 wrote:
6. Terran beats zerg, Zerg beats protoss, and protoss beats protoss.
6. Terran beats zerg, Zerg beats protoss, and protoss beats protoss.
Lol, this one is brilliant.
BW General Discussion - Page 222
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9566 Posts
Lol, this one is brilliant. | ||
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
( rax into 14cc build...) | ||
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Jae Zedong
407 Posts
The hp complaint about SCVs is a bit conceited since probes mine 12% faster than SCVs. I'm sure a lot of Terrans would trade 20 hp on their workers for 12% faster mining. | ||
Epoxide
Magic Woods9326 Posts
On February 20 2018 22:04 Jae Zedong wrote: I personally don't mind balance "whine" at all, I just think it's refreshing when someone dares to speak their mind. If it's said in anger it's even funnier. The hp complaint about SCVs is a bit conceited since probes mine 12% faster than SCVs. I'm sure a lot of Terrans would trade 20 hp on their workers for 12% faster mining. also protoss not having to have their probes build the buildings or sacrifice themselves | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12064 Posts
On February 20 2018 22:09 Epoxide wrote: also protoss not having to have their probes build the buildings or sacrifice themselves The amount of games I've lost to probe harassing my building scv over the years on the wall is insane T_T | ||
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AdelSC123
France362 Posts
On February 20 2018 22:18 Qikz wrote: The amount of games I've lost to probe harassing my building scv over the years on the wall is insane T_T A classic: | ||
Harem
United States11393 Posts
On February 20 2018 22:18 Qikz wrote: The amount of games I've lost to probe harassing my building scv over the years on the wall is insane T_T Have you tried building valks to counter the probe harass? | ||
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kogeT
Poland2042 Posts
The only changes I can think of that are not immediatetly-game-breaking are: - nuclear silo removed and nuke production moved to cover ops (reason nukes are not used is because you need scans) - queens starting with more energy (mb 75 so they can cast esnare for example immediatetly and boost broodling usage) - scout cheaper and with vision upgrade (200/125 sounds reasonable) and probably silgthly adjusted production time If you do everything else around core units it seems to ruin so many things immediatetly. Mb bunker could have 50 HP less (although that would probably make terrans die more vs P early game) Above changes would give terran nukes for late TvP to clear some of these scattered expos / canon templar ramps), help zergs with 8 raxes (assuming bunker nerf), help zerg in late TvZ vs mech. Scout could come in play or not - probably still not useful but mb. So there is still nothing for PvZ early / late game. Maybe shield battery could recharge the shileds on buildings - could be used to hold hydra busts with few initial cannons. Someone make blizzard consider above balance changes. :D | ||
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Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
On February 20 2018 23:05 kogeT wrote: It would be nice to see some balance in a sense: lower TvP die rate in early game, lower ZvT die rate in early game (bunker rushes/ 8 rax), lower PvZ die rate in early game (ling/hydra bust) and at the same time give some more ways of playing lategame PvZ, something for ZvT to deal with mech and something for TvP to mb lower 200/200 strength for some mobility.. The only changes I can think of that are not immediatetly-game-breaking are: - nuclear silo removed and nuke production moved to cover ops (reason nukes are not used is because you need scans) - queens starting with more energy (mb 75 so they can cast esnare for example immediatetly and boost broodling usage) - scout cheaper and with vision upgrade (200/125 sounds reasonable) and probably silgthly adjusted production time If you do everything else around core units it seems to ruin so many things immediatetly. Mb bunker could have 50 HP less (although that would probably make terrans die more vs P early game) Above changes would give terran nukes for late TvP to clear some of these scattered expos / canon templar ramps), help zergs with 8 raxes (assuming bunker nerf), help zerg in late TvZ vs mech. Scout could come in play or not - probably still not useful but mb. So there is still nothing for PvZ early / late game. Maybe shield battery could recharge the shileds on buildings - could be used to hold hydra busts with few initial cannons. Someone make blizzard consider above balance changes. :D how about no. | ||
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
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EndingLife
United States1605 Posts
On February 20 2018 23:05 kogeT wrote: It would be nice to see some balance in a sense: lower TvP die rate in early game, lower ZvT die rate in early game (bunker rushes/ 8 rax), lower PvZ die rate in early game (ling/hydra bust) and at the same time give some more ways of playing lategame PvZ, something for ZvT to deal with mech and something for TvP to mb lower 200/200 strength for some mobility.. The only changes I can think of that are not immediatetly-game-breaking are: - nuclear silo removed and nuke production moved to cover ops (reason nukes are not used is because you need scans) - queens starting with more energy (mb 75 so they can cast esnare for example immediatetly and boost broodling usage) - scout cheaper and with vision upgrade (200/125 sounds reasonable) and probably silgthly adjusted production time If you do everything else around core units it seems to ruin so many things immediatetly. Mb bunker could have 50 HP less (although that would probably make terrans die more vs P early game) Above changes would give terran nukes for late TvP to clear some of these scattered expos / canon templar ramps), help zergs with 8 raxes (assuming bunker nerf), help zerg in late TvZ vs mech. Scout could come in play or not - probably still not useful but mb. So there is still nothing for PvZ early / late game. Maybe shield battery could recharge the shileds on buildings - could be used to hold hydra busts with few initial cannons. Someone make blizzard consider above balance changes. :D I'm all for the scout changes. I'd love to be able to make scouts and micro them every game like zerg does with mutas. They're too damn expensive and I only get to use them for trolling purposes :/ | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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Cryoc
Germany914 Posts
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GunSlinger
614 Posts
On February 20 2018 15:50 Letmelose wrote: It is nothing all that new though, non-terran players will always whine. It has been this way ever since I started following the professional scene. Zerg and protoss whining about their trials and tribulations, and the terran race telling others to man up. It has less to do with how whiny the individuals are (although Stork is whiny as fuck), but rather how frustrated the players are with the gaming balance and the current status of the meta-game. There is a reason why historically speaking, you rarely see whiny terran players. Oh, how easily people can forget. When Savior was dominating way back in and around 2006, people did not talk about balance all that much. But if the subject came up... goddamn did Terran players ever whine about Mutalisks and Dark Swarm. Not sure when you started following the scene, but there were definitely heated discussions of how OP Zerg was back then. Light still talks about how OP Zerg on his stream if someone brings up 'tesagi'. I remember the Zerg anguish when casual Toss players started emulating the Bisu Build. I myself, often bitched about Corsairs, Psi Storm and DT not alerting you when they killed your workers, etc. I even remember trying to convince my friend that Overlords needed a buff (lol?). Protoss across the world could finally stand there with a smug look on their face and say," Man up." Everything is cyclical. When Flash is finally dethroned, all this tesagi nonsense will be swept under the rug and people can begin to recognize just how amazing Flash's reign is. Instead of focusing on their perceived imbalance issues. | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
so, if I don't want to make my first pylon at specific spot at nat vs Z, I just don't, and gl hf imo touching the balance of BW in a overall positive way is possible, but actiblizzard is definitely incapable of doing it properly | ||
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jinjin5000
United States1560 Posts
sparkle is so bad, if i win a tvz vs viewer, I should get spon $$$ - flash this map is so bad that it belongs in the default broodwar map section, not in a professional tournament. Mapmaker wasn't even thinking when he made this -larva lol -stork if any zerg votes for this map, they have no shame. That said, let's gooooooooooo! Everyone vote for it! -JD and other zergs | ||
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Jealous
10401 Posts
On February 09 2018 22:58 2Pacalypse- wrote: This is the thread, but most of the images are dead now: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/105310-draw-your-way-across-the-cliff Ah, the memories of youth http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/105310-draw-your-way-across-the-cliff?page=22#423 | ||
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Jealous
10401 Posts
On February 20 2018 15:50 Letmelose wrote: It is nothing all that new though, non-terran players will always whine. Even the slightest imbalance will not go unnoticed, and if people think terran players such as Flash will keep a stiff upper lip whatever their circumstances happen to be, they are severely mistaken. While Flash always throws fits of indignation out whenever somebody dares to mention a potential imbalance in favour of the terran race, he personally had zero problems saying that the protoss race was thoroughly broken when he competed as a Starcraft 2 professional. When a news site asked one hundred professional gamers in 2004, on the topic of what made them regret picking their race of choice, these issues came up the most frequently: Terran professionals 1) There is nothing to complain about: 20 out of 41 terran users 2) It is too mechanically intensive: 6 out of 41 terran users 3) Other players accuse terran of being imbalanced: 4 out of 41 terran users Zerg professionals 1) Zerg loses too easily to the terran race: 16 out of 36 zerg users 2) Bunker rush is too powerful: 9 out of 36 zerg users 3) 8 rax is too powerful: 3 out of 36 zerg users Protoss professionals 1) When the maps make it impossible to defeat the zerg race: 8 out of 22 protoss users 2) When the maps make it impossible to defeat either zerg or terran: 3 out of 22 protoss users 3) When the maps are unfavourable for the protoss race: 2 out of 22 protoss users It has been this way ever since I started following the professional scene. Zerg and protoss whining about their trials and tribulations, and the terran race telling others to man up. It has less to do with how whiny the individuals are (although Stork is whiny as fuck), but rather how frustrated the players are with the gaming balance and the current status of the meta-game. There is a reason why historically speaking, you rarely see whiny terran players. Can't the reason why you, historically speaking, rarely see whiny Terran players is because in the early days of Brood War, maps with ridiculous features like huge buildable cliffs behind nat, LT T 2 vs P 12, etc. Terran dominated - and continued to dominate for years? Not saying that this is strictly BECAUSE of Terran as a race, it's possible that NaDa and oov would have been as dominant with another race because of their caliber as a player, but it's because Terrans can't whine when the best player of every generation has almost always been Terran. | ||
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
On February 22 2018 05:07 ProMeTheus112 wrote: imo touching the balance of BW in a overall positive way is possible, but actiblizzard is definitely incapable of doing it properly keep believing...!! (what a nonsense discussion anyways after 20years of a balanced gamplay) | ||
c3rberUs
Japan11840 Posts
1) There is nothing to complain about From terran users lol I miss Stork's whining from the KeSPA days now. | ||
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