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On July 12 2012 22:10 ImbaTosS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 22:06 deafhobbit wrote:On July 12 2012 20:42 Fleuria wrote:On July 12 2012 20:34 Ryo wrote:On July 12 2012 20:11 Fleuria wrote:
He's one of those people that say bullshit like this for fame, all for his own gain, if he had any real passion he would invested in the bw scene when it was dying and they made the decision to swap, if he sponsored the next 3 osls or something it wouldn't have died but jk all talk no game. I wasn't going to respond since I'm coughing green stuff and all that crap but some of you need to reread the article. Perhaps it wasn't clear before but now I'm setting it straight. ABC-Talk is a section written by DES staff who hear about "insider" news/gossip that they can't give official details about. In this case, the DES staff who wrote this article heard about CEO X from a Kespa insider. According to the author of the article anyway. So no, this isn't some kind of attempt at fame/PR by the CEO. -_- It won't take a genius to figure out who the guy is... it already states he runs a highly successful lan cafe, won't take to long before the scene finds out who the guy is, this is the internet you know. end of the day, if he wanted to save broodwar he would of done it when OSL was struggling for a sponsor and for other support. More importantly, it says he has been a fan of BW "since his school days." Even if school means college, that's damn young for a CEO. Honestly, it's so young it makes me question the veracity of this entire article. I think you mean Validity.
Nope, i mean veracity, as in truthfulness.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/veracity
Wow, i just out-Englished a brit.
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On July 12 2012 21:34 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 21:30 jpak wrote:On July 12 2012 21:12 Caihead wrote:On July 12 2012 21:05 Sawamura wrote:On July 12 2012 21:03 nadafanboy42 wrote:
So what? Broodwar could've survived if it had debased itself to becoming the pet charity of some nostalgic multi-millionaire? Where was this guy when MBCGame was struggling to find a MSL sponsor? Where was he when eSTRO disbanded?
Honestly this shouldn't come as a surprise. There's a lot of sad and angry Broodwar fans amongst us poor people, it makes sense it's the same for rich Broodwar fans. But words are cheap. The suggestion of this article is that "Broodwar could survive if it wasn't switching to SC2", but I call bullshit on that. MBC didn't disband MBCGame because they hated SC2. I seriously doubt Wemade pulled their sponsorship because they didn't want to sponsor SC2 either.
What I'm hearing from this article is that there's a passionate CEO who would've wanted to support Broodwar. What I'm not hearing is that there's a business-savy CEO who thinks sponsoring Broodwar is going to help his company.
I don't think there's any question that if KeSPA wasn't 'forcing' the switch to SC2, Broodwar would've continued to muddle on. But it would've done so as a shadow of its former self.
I can understand that this guy wants to vent his frustration and anger at seeing something he loves end. But nostalgia and charity is not something to base an industry on. Imo it would be nothing short of selfish and irresponsible to ask progamers to throw away their youth on a scene dependant on the whims of a bunch of rich benefactors. No other companies would have killed a product that they have been created for a life time that is supposed to last only 5 years at maximum to be still popular at large and still running competitions in a country . Blizzard and Co did it and I blame them too for the murder of broodwar thanks to them suing poor mbcgame who is already running on low funds and ogn . No one else is to be blame except blizzard for all of this . Well, I mean they basically shifted support to SC2, they didn't actively kill BW, it died on its own due to alot of external events. Blizz didn't make MSL go away, blizz didn't make the match fixing scandal, blizz didn't divert away sponsors and corporate interest (in many ways other games - indirect competitors like LoL also contributed). Be reasonable with the criticism, Blizzard has alot to blame and is an easy target, but be rational about it. It's about half match-fixing, half Blizzard lawsuits. So yeah, while Blizzard is not TOTALLY at fault, to say that it had no part in killing BW is just being naive. Blizzard lawsuits were over profits against Kespa, how about this, what if Kespa had agreed to let blizzard have broadcasting profit margins, then blizzard supported the whole BW scene right there? Also besides, Blizzard was going to push the newer product regardless, I'm not defending it from a BW fan perspective, just saying that it was going to happen.
As I recall the complaint the broadcasting companies made was that they couldn't run based on Blizzard's demands. What else can you call that?
The tech company eqivilent would be Apple charging users with old iPhones huge fees out of nowhere if they stay on the old iPhone. No one really accounts for these unexpected costs... It is not really a choice if you can't afford to stay. Whatever was said precisely in those negotiations we won't know, but we got a pretty general idea that Blizzard was not making realisitic demands, they were killing a product.
I don't think we should forget these events so easily... It justifies them.
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5003 Posts
Most of the content for ABC Talk comes like, months or even a year or so after it has actually happened.
He was probably one of the companies that was looking into sponsor Team 8, but probably backed out since KeSPA seriously started considering SC2 since before 2010-2011 PL season and he had no interest in SC2
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is not too late , go pump money now! with more money bw league survive yay =P ( i know is impossible haiz )
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Good intentions and words, just not in the right time of things.
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Why does everyone care what kespa thinks? didn't GOM starleague come out of nowhere
The real dilemma is team sponsorship and if they will survive
I am convinced BW will outlast SC2
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Seems to me that he will found a new league, not OSL or Proleague, just new BW league. Wonder who would televise it though.
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This sounds like bullshit because a person like that wouldn't invest in T8 then.
EDIT: So is it confirmed that Round 3 of PL will be SC2 only?
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On July 12 2012 23:09 Panasony wrote:
Why does everyone care what kespa thinks? didn't GOM starleague come out of nowhere
Blizzard intended with the Classic Seasons to create a foothold in Korea which would then be used to promote and run Starcraft 2 tournaments.
Also, thanks to Ryo for the article. It's funny though, that many people misunderstood certain parts of it.
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thanks for the translation hope you get better
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Netherlands45349 Posts
too late to little now 
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I wonder how many other sponsors will go down this path, hopefully no more teams shutting down. It is true though that the domestic market, which the current sponsors really care about I assume, is much smaller for SC2 than BW no?
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On July 12 2012 23:19 Shadow_Dog wrote:
This sounds like bullshit because a person like that wouldn't invest in T8 then.
EDIT: So is it confirmed that Round 3 of PL will be SC2 only?
no formal statement yet
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On July 12 2012 23:59 Taku wrote:
I wonder how many other sponsors will go down this path, hopefully no more teams shutting down. It is true though that the domestic market, which the current sponsors really care about I assume, is much smaller for SC2 than BW no?
Not only is market for SC2 smaller still than BW, half of the team sponsors in BW have little to no incentive to market towards US/EU audiences, especially SK Telecom and KT.
I am looking forward to September to see which team decides to fold next.
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On July 13 2012 00:04 jpak wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:59 Taku wrote:
I wonder how many other sponsors will go down this path, hopefully no more teams shutting down. It is true though that the domestic market, which the current sponsors really care about I assume, is much smaller for SC2 than BW no? Not only is market for SC2 smaller still than BW, half of the team sponsors in BW have little to no incentive to market towards US/EU audiences, especially SK Telecom and KT. I am looking forward to September to see which team decides to fold next.
speculation is also pretty important whenever involving investments or sponsorship. It really depends whether BW pros can hold its own in sc2, then with proper marketing they should be able to ease a good portion of their fanbase into sc2.
And with heart of the swarm lurking so close, it'll probably attract attentions and investors again
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On July 13 2012 00:44 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 00:04 jpak wrote:On July 12 2012 23:59 Taku wrote:
I wonder how many other sponsors will go down this path, hopefully no more teams shutting down. It is true though that the domestic market, which the current sponsors really care about I assume, is much smaller for SC2 than BW no? Not only is market for SC2 smaller still than BW, half of the team sponsors in BW have little to no incentive to market towards US/EU audiences, especially SK Telecom and KT. I am looking forward to September to see which team decides to fold next. speculation is also pretty important whenever involving investments or sponsorship. It really depends whether BW pros can hold its own in sc2, then with proper marketing they should be able to ease a good portion of their fanbase into sc2. And with heart of the swarm lurking so close, it'll probably attract attentions and investors again
It's pretty clear that the dual proleague has brought viewership down hard. They are losing fans at the moment, and it will be hard to regain them as the enthusiasm for the game isn't here, and the names can only keep people in, not really bring new viewers.
They are also squandering their brand name.
I don't think they'll ever get that many foreign viewers.
Starcraft has been put out of the main hours on OGN.
Starcraft in korea is only getting smaller now, and I won't be suprise to see retirements and sponsors backing up in a year's time, when the first real year of proleague is really down.
I'm pessimist about the future of the industry, wait and see though.
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I know it won't change anything, but reading this from SNM's blog :
Oh, by the way, if you ask me "how packed was the stadium" for semifinals match, it's nothing compared to GSL. And by nothing, I mean fully packed. So packed that people who couldn't enter were asked to leave due to safety concerns.
made me
On July 13 2012 00:04 jpak wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:59 Taku wrote:
I wonder how many other sponsors will go down this path, hopefully no more teams shutting down. It is true though that the domestic market, which the current sponsors really care about I assume, is much smaller for SC2 than BW no? Not only is market for SC2 smaller still than BW, half of the team sponsors in BW have little to no incentive to market towards US/EU audiences, especially SK Telecom and KT. I am looking forward to September to see which team decides to fold next.
But contrary to KT and SKT who target customers directly among the BW spectators, a company like STX whose main business is trading and ship maintenance has apparently no reason to invest into e-sports, yet they owned a team with one of the biggest budget of the circuit.
BW's potential biggest market is China, and for the last few years, SKT has been doing maneuvers to break into the Chinese market. SKT's IR website even has a Chinese version.
I am not saying that the sponsors would get a positive return on investment for sure, but you can't dismiss the possibility that easily.
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On July 12 2012 22:13 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 21:34 Caihead wrote:On July 12 2012 21:30 jpak wrote:On July 12 2012 21:12 Caihead wrote:On July 12 2012 21:05 Sawamura wrote:On July 12 2012 21:03 nadafanboy42 wrote:
So what? Broodwar could've survived if it had debased itself to becoming the pet charity of some nostalgic multi-millionaire? Where was this guy when MBCGame was struggling to find a MSL sponsor? Where was he when eSTRO disbanded?
Honestly this shouldn't come as a surprise. There's a lot of sad and angry Broodwar fans amongst us poor people, it makes sense it's the same for rich Broodwar fans. But words are cheap. The suggestion of this article is that "Broodwar could survive if it wasn't switching to SC2", but I call bullshit on that. MBC didn't disband MBCGame because they hated SC2. I seriously doubt Wemade pulled their sponsorship because they didn't want to sponsor SC2 either.
What I'm hearing from this article is that there's a passionate CEO who would've wanted to support Broodwar. What I'm not hearing is that there's a business-savy CEO who thinks sponsoring Broodwar is going to help his company.
I don't think there's any question that if KeSPA wasn't 'forcing' the switch to SC2, Broodwar would've continued to muddle on. But it would've done so as a shadow of its former self.
I can understand that this guy wants to vent his frustration and anger at seeing something he loves end. But nostalgia and charity is not something to base an industry on. Imo it would be nothing short of selfish and irresponsible to ask progamers to throw away their youth on a scene dependant on the whims of a bunch of rich benefactors. No other companies would have killed a product that they have been created for a life time that is supposed to last only 5 years at maximum to be still popular at large and still running competitions in a country . Blizzard and Co did it and I blame them too for the murder of broodwar thanks to them suing poor mbcgame who is already running on low funds and ogn . No one else is to be blame except blizzard for all of this . Well, I mean they basically shifted support to SC2, they didn't actively kill BW, it died on its own due to alot of external events. Blizz didn't make MSL go away, blizz didn't make the match fixing scandal, blizz didn't divert away sponsors and corporate interest (in many ways other games - indirect competitors like LoL also contributed). Be reasonable with the criticism, Blizzard has alot to blame and is an easy target, but be rational about it. It's about half match-fixing, half Blizzard lawsuits. So yeah, while Blizzard is not TOTALLY at fault, to say that it had no part in killing BW is just being naive. Blizzard lawsuits were over profits against Kespa, how about this, what if Kespa had agreed to let blizzard have broadcasting profit margins, then blizzard supported the whole BW scene right there? Also besides, Blizzard was going to push the newer product regardless, I'm not defending it from a BW fan perspective, just saying that it was going to happen. As I recall the complaint the broadcasting companies made was that they couldn't run based on Blizzard's demands. What else can you call that? The tech company eqivilent would be Apple charging users with old iPhones huge fees out of nowhere if they stay on the old iPhone. No one really accounts for these unexpected costs... It is not really a choice if you can't afford to stay. Whatever was said precisely in those negotiations we won't know, but we got a pretty general idea that Blizzard was not making realisitic demands, they were killing a product. I don't think we should forget these events so easily... It justifies them.
Yes, because taking what one side of a conflict said and declaring it absolute truth is in no way intellectually dishonest! Honestly I don't see any point in these discussions as it's obvious that the only people still having them are trolls and delusional fanboys. Blizzard's side was that they wanted control over their intellectual properties, which anyone who pays any attention to the entertainment industries knows is one of the things most zealously guarded by any company (in part due to trademark law making it so companies can lose their rights if they fail to try to defend them). KeSPA's side was that Blizzard's demands were unreasonable. Noone knows what was in either side's heads. Personally I do not see how any Broodwar fan, having seen the incompetence and megalomania KeSPA is capable of, could not think they share at least some blame for things ending up the way they did.
You can go and blame Blizzard for everything. But how is Blizzard responsible for the plummeting ratings of OGN and MBC? + Show Spoiler +OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee
Someone got some hard numbers regarding TV ratings for OGN and MBC Game... it doesn't look good. (70th and 60th respectively).
OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee
Basically: OGN has a sixth of the rating they had in 2007, MBC has a third of what they had in 2007.
Yes, Blizzard could have gone balls to the walls to save Broodwar and didn't. But why would they when KeSPA shutdown the GOM tournament Blizzard sponsored? + Show Spoiler +And yes, KeSPA shut it down. Anybody who was a there in the community and actually paying attention should know very well that's what happened. Teams with minimum exposure like Sparkyz and Hero dropping out, while the team with the most over-worked superstar (Hwaseung) staying in till the end? Yeah, sure it was cuss 'players were overworked'.
People can have their little conspiracy theories, but in the end if the Broodwar scene had been a healthy growing industry no amount of legal strong-arming from Blizzard could've shut it down. Blizzard may have had a hand in convincing KeSPA to put down Broodwar, but they aren't the ones who got it sick to begin with. Imo Savior and K-Pop have done more to harm Broodwar then Blizzard ever did or could.
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Oh, that would be just an unimaginable "if". I shall be the happiest man.
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[QUOTE]On July 12 2012 21:03 nadafanboy42 wrote:
"Well, I mean they basically shifted support to SC2, they didn't actively kill BW, it died on its own due to alot of external events. Blizz didn't make MSL go away, blizz didn't make the match fixing scandal, blizz didn't divert away sponsors and corporate interest (in many ways other games - indirect competitors like LoL also contributed). Be reasonable with the criticism, Blizzard has alot to blame and is an easy target, but be rational about it."
I'm pretty sure blizzard did actively kill BW. You don't just waltz into korea 10 years after OGN and MBC built a small dynasty and ask for a cut. Legally you can do whatever you want with your product, but going into korea, literally the only place to actively play the game anymore, and demand a cut of something that isn't pulling in that much revenue/ running off of sponsorships. Actively killing BW, ya.
"It's about half match-fixing, half Blizzard lawsuits. So yeah, while Blizzard is not TOTALLY at fault, to say that it had no part in killing BW is just being naive."
match-fixing is an individual's choice. If I were some kind of savior fanboy who only watched his matches, then I could see how BW could have a smaller audience. But I don't know how many BW fans fit this description. <3 upmagic
"People can have their little conspiracy theories, but in the end if the Broodwar scene had been a healthy growing industry no amount of legal strong-arming from Blizzard could've shut it down. Blizzard may have had a hand in convincing KeSPA to put down Broodwar, but they aren't the ones who got it sick to begin with. Imo Savior and K-Pop have done more to harm Broodwar then Blizzard ever did or could."
I don't see how OGN or MBC could have been insanely profitable. They don't even charge admission for watching some events. Blizzard should have just stayed out of Korea tbh. And stop throwing around the word conspiracy, your lack of maturity is showing.
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EPT
