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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9505 Posts
On July 13 2012 07:37 jpak wrote: He was considering... until SC2 came into the picture. Then he withdrew his consideration. You and others really need to stop talking about things you don't know as if they're facts. Unless someone here has an insider information, all this guessing of what really happened is pretty pointless. | ||
Waxangel
United States33390 Posts
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hydrogg
United States377 Posts
On July 13 2012 07:50 2Pacalypse- wrote: You and others really need to stop talking about things you don't know as if they're facts. Unless someone here has an insider information, all this guessing of what really happened is pretty pointless. That's what it said in the article... | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
I believe the latter will be the case. | ||
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InTheFade
United States1721 Posts
On July 13 2012 09:10 Lightwip wrote: Either OSL will crowd out the other competitions or it will fail to have enoufh influence to break into the market so late. I believe the latter will be the case. You forgot about the third and most likely outcome: the OSL will coexist with the dozens of seasonal GSLs, MLGs, DHs, ISs, IPL, and those other ones I can't remember quite off the top of my head. However, the OSL will probably never be the most prized SC tournament, thus it will really have no meaning as it did in BW as THE Starleague. But it will go on as long as there's money to be made for OGN, sponsors, and players. I still hold the belief that there is an SC2 bubble, but Blizzard planned this out and will stretch the scene to its limits with its constant patching and 2 upcoming expansions. | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
The only shame is that pro BW isn't going to be coming back when the OSL fails to gain enough support. | ||
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Zer atai
United States691 Posts
I think that he did not believe that bw was dying, and when the official announcement of the sc2 switch, he panicked. Because he only believed it then. | ||
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Seraphic
United States3849 Posts
OSL is still OSL. Most everyone in Korea that knows Starcraft, will know OSL. It is the people outside of Korea that is the issue really, always sort of have been like that. We all know OSL here, but who else that doesn't watch Starcraft in general? Whoever this person is, he should have done something and not sat there I think. Now it is too late for that, BW will probably be gone after Proleague and this OSL, which is...terrible. | ||
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SlowBullets
United States839 Posts
On July 13 2012 11:39 Seraphic wrote: You guys are forgetting HotS is coming. Regardless of how far behind the BW elites are, I believe when HotS release, that will give them more of a chance to come back. OSL is still OSL. Most everyone in Korea that knows Starcraft, will know OSL. It is the people outside of Korea that is the issue really, always sort of have been like that. We all know OSL here, but who else that doesn't watch Starcraft in general? Whoever this person is, he should have done something and not sat there I think. Now it is too late for that, BW will probably be gone after Proleague and this OSL, which is...terrible. I'd be surprised if HotS made the same impact as BroodWar did to the original SC tbh. | ||
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BearStorm
United States795 Posts
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On July 13 2012 08:55 Waxangel wrote: Daily esports is very pro BW, so take it with a grain of salt D: Well at least to me - Thank god there is a source that's pro BW because we need one right now. | ||
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Brett
Australia3820 Posts
On July 12 2012 21:03 nadafanboy42 wrote: So what? Broodwar could've survived if it had debased itself to becoming the pet charity of some nostalgic multi-millionaire? Where was this guy when MBCGame was struggling to find a MSL sponsor? Where was he when eSTRO disbanded? Honestly this shouldn't come as a surprise. There's a lot of sad and angry Broodwar fans amongst us poor people, it makes sense it's the same for rich Broodwar fans. But words are cheap. The suggestion of this article is that "Broodwar could survive if it wasn't switching to SC2", but I call bullshit on that. MBC didn't disband MBCGame because they hated SC2. I seriously doubt Wemade pulled their sponsorship because they didn't want to sponsor SC2 either. What I'm hearing from this article is that there's a passionate CEO who would've wanted to support Broodwar. What I'm not hearing is that there's a business-savy CEO who thinks sponsoring Broodwar is going to help his company. I don't think there's any question that if KeSPA wasn't 'forcing' the switch to SC2, Broodwar would've continued to muddle on. But it would've done so as a shadow of its former self. I can understand that this guy wants to vent his frustration and anger at seeing something he loves end. But nostalgia and charity is not something to base an industry on. Imo it would be nothing short of selfish and irresponsible to ask progamers to throw away their youth on a scene dependant on the whims of a bunch of rich benefactors. Good post. I understand that BW fans are upset about the game losing support and 'pro' status; I'm one of them. But the business of BW has been on a steady decline for some time. If anything, this guy's empty words are more enraging than anything else because he didn't put his money where his mouth is when the business side of things began to decline. | ||
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leperphilliac
United States399 Posts
I mean, BW seems so much more popular in Korea even when OnGameNet is switching completely to SC2, my cousins tell me practically nobody cares about it and LoL, MMORPGs and BW are at the top still. | ||
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Cr4zyH0r5e
Peru1308 Posts
There were a lot of factors that could have impacted the investor's decision; whether this is true or not isn't even certain. But assuming that it is, there's a lot that one has to consider about the status of BW at the time and the hype Blizzard created for SC2. Then again one should take into account Waxangel's post. I don't want to bother dwelling any longer on this issue. The transition has already occurred and whether this was for good or bad only time will tell. After having played SC2, I can say with certainty that there's enough about the game that I don't like for me to not be interested in buying HoTS or whatever the 3rd sequel may be. I'm just glad that someone's showing some love for BW even if this is a made up report from DeS. | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
We all know that there are a lot of SC1 players and fans don't like the transition into SC2 in Korean SPL and OSL. There are many reasons, subjective or objective. But the most fundamental and ultimate reason is that SC2 is not a game that the majority of SC1 fans approves and appreciates. SC2 is considered as just a "different game", rather than a real sequel that possess an improved experience for both players and spectators, for strategies and tactics, and for competition and esports. Even in the Alpha phase of SC2 many SC1 fans with dense experiences of StarCraft pro scene have given constructive criticisms and suggestions about how to make a better sequel, Blizzard still insists on many of the fundamental design flaws that later are proved to be deal-breaker to the whole gameplay and esports experiences. Two most criticized problem is the deathball and lack of micro-able units and maybe the reluctant to bring back SC1 units. These problems were pointed out in 2009 way before the game is finalized but Blizzard just ignored them. The funniest thing is that these problems have been continuously brought up even until today. But Dustin Browder's famous response is: "if you want BW, just go play BW. It's still a great game". This is arrogance to some extent. And this arrogance later bites in the !@#. Diablo 3 is the best example of this. Their ignorance of the fan base's opinion pays them back with one of the most criticized game (Diablo 3) in history. | ||
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plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
On July 13 2012 16:06 larse wrote: OK. I will make a nasty point here. We all know that there are a lot of SC1 players and fans don't like the transition into SC2 in Korean SPL and OSL. There are many reasons, subjective or objective. But the most fundamental and ultimate reason is that SC2 is not a game that the majority of SC1 fans approves and appreciates. SC2 is considered as just a "different game", rather than a real sequel that possess an improved experience for both players and spectators, for strategies and tactics, and for competition and esports. Even in the Alpha phase of SC2 many SC1 fans with dense experiences of StarCraft pro scene have given constructive criticisms and suggestions about how to make a better sequel, Blizzard still insists on many of the fundamental design flaws that later are proved to be deal-breaker to the whole gameplay and esports experiences. Two most criticized problem is the deathball and lack of micro-able units and maybe the reluctant to bring back SC1 units. These problems were pointed out in 2009 way before the game is finalized but Blizzard just ignored them. The funniest thing is that these problems have been continuously brought up even until today. But Dustin Browder's famous response is: "if you want BW, just go play BW. It's still a great game". This is arrogance to some extent. And this arrogance later bites in the !@#. Diablo 3 is the best example of this. Their ignorance of the fan base's opinion pays them back with one of the most criticized game (Diablo 3) in history. Both of those problems are being addressed in HotS. Units like the Viper, which can take enemy units, and the widow mine, which forces a player to break up a deathball, are steps in the right direction. As for more micro-able units, there's the addition of the oracle, viper, and other units I can't remember. Also, even after HotS, there's still Legacy of the Void sometime in 2013/4, so the potential for new units to address the problems is very likely. It would also do wonders to have a kickass plot like BW did, and not a non-cliché storyline like WoL did. | ||
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AssyrianKing
Australia2111 Posts
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nadafanboy42
Netherlands209 Posts
On July 13 2012 16:06 larse wrote: OK. I will make a nasty point here. We all know that there are a lot of SC1 players and fans don't like the transition into SC2 in Korean SPL and OSL. There are many reasons, subjective or objective. But the most fundamental and ultimate reason is that SC2 is not a game that the majority of SC1 fans approves and appreciates. SC2 is considered as just a "different game", rather than a real sequel that possess an improved experience for both players and spectators, for strategies and tactics, and for competition and esports. What majority of SC1 fans? The foreign SC1 community has by and large switched to SC2. In the Korean community fans have been dropping Broodwar for years now, and we can't know for sure how many of those still left will accept SC2 until at least a season after KeSPA and OGN have fully switched over. I will agree that the majority of SC1 fans prefer Broodwar over SC2, but don't extend that into "everyone hates SC2's guts just like me". SC2 is a different game, but it is also a similar game. To some people the things that are different will be most important, to others the things that are similar will be most important. Even in the Alpha phase of SC2 many SC1 fans with dense experiences of StarCraft pro scene have given constructive criticisms and suggestions about how to make a better sequel, Blizzard still insists on many of the fundamental design flaws that later are proved to be deal-breaker to the whole gameplay and esports experiences. Blizzard listened and implemented many of the suggestions of the community. The macro-mechanics like larva inject and chronoboost were added only because Blizzard listened to the fan complaints that MBS hurt the potential skill differentiation. Two most criticized problem is the deathball and lack of micro-able units Both of these are problems Blizzard has acknowledged and are actively trying to fix in HotS. and maybe the reluctant to bring back SC1 units. The Viper is pretty much a flying defiler (consume+blinding cloud). Hydra have gotten their speed upgrade back. Oracle is half an arbiter. Blizzard isn't bringing back SC1 units because it would be bullshit to copy-paste old units into a completely new game and think that'll work. But the new units show Blizzard is more then happy to take inspiration from the old Broodwar units and bring back their spells and abilities in new forms that actually work in a new game. These problems were pointed out in 2009 way before the game is finalized but Blizzard just ignored them. No, Blizzard did not ignore them. Blizzard had to balance these problems against modern market demands. Just because the die-hard Broodwar fans consider it the perfect game, doesn't change that 99.999% of gamers, the people who are actually buying the game and thus funding its development, hate games like Broodwar with their out-dated graphics and completely non-user friendly UI. Had you actually bothered to read the Starcraft II reviews in mainstream gaming media, you would find the primary complaint was how conservative SC2 was, how much Blizzard had refused to update the game and kept in many mechanics and principles from Broodwar that were considered dated by modern RTS standards. Blizzard only did this because they were listening to the Broodwar fans and pros, and trying to address their concerns as much as they could while still making a game that would actually sell copies in today's gaming market. The funniest thing is that these problems have been continuously brought up even until today. But Dustin Browder's famous response is: "if you want BW, just go play BW. It's still a great game". This is arrogance to some extent. And this arrogance later bites in the !@#. Diablo 3 is the best example of this. Their ignorance of the fan base's opinion pays them back with one of the most criticized game (Diablo 3) in history. So now it's arrogance to acknowledge Broodwar is a great game? I'm pretty sure Dustin Browder could spin gold and you'd call it bat poop. What Browder is responding to is the constant demand that SC2 should be exactly like Broodwar. It is not, it is not supposed to be. Starcraft 2 is a new game that takes elements from Broodwar, keeps some, removes some, changes others and adds its own new things on top of it. All Browder is saying is that if you want a game exactly like Broodwar, go play Broodwar! No shit Sherlock! If you want a game like Broodwar, but more up-to-date to modern RTS standards and with new elements added to it, maybe Starcraft 2 is for you. Or maybe not, but don't hold it to bullshit standards. Regarding Diablo 3 all I've got to say is: http://www.ingame.msnbc.msn.com/technology/ingame/diablo-3-sales-set-record-despite-launch-issues-790219 I've increasingly noticed in the gaming community the appearance of the 'hardcore narrative'. Which is that the (often buthurt) 'hardcore' community creates their own narrative about the succes or failure of a game company, completely ignoring that the industry has long since passed them by. Gaming is not about catering to elite groups of diehard fans. It's a mass-market entertainment industry. If the 'hardcore' crowd hates a game, it doesn't mean jack if the actual customers are still buying it. The same is with Starcraft II eSports. The delusional Broodwar fans keep shitting on SC2, but you know what? There are hundreds of thousands of foreign fans who love watching SC2. SC2 is single-handedly responsible for the revival and unprecedented growth of the international eSports scene over the past years. The only factually correct complaint is that SC2 has failed in Korea. But quite frankly, if Broodwar with the full weight of KeSPA, OGN, and 10 years of history behind it couldn't hang on to its fans. How in the world could you expect a new game, directly competing with it, to come close to its success? We don't know how things are going to pan out from here. Maybe with KeSPA and OGN behind it, HotS will succeed where WoL failed. Maybe it won't and LoL will become the main Korean eSport. Or maybe neither will and in a few years OGN will go the way of MBC, and all that'll be left will be a GOMTV primarily supported by foreigner money. Either way it's a matter of wait, see, pray, and doing our best to support the things we love. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
i have not seen more than one credible campaign to help bring back the BW leagues you know and love. (much love for kona's "One last push") frankly, a lot of us (foreigners) aren't physically there to observe the games and the culture. the players' efforts, personalities and storylines are all enjoyed through translated words and people who were actually there... or the scope and lenses of a camera---this is all regardless of how real it feels and seems. unfortunately, the game saw a very real end (the same way a lot of professional leagues do), and the main hubs for BW competition is stopping support for now. i know some people who are so selfish that even if they had a sport of art as important as BW [is to some people] to them, they would still not give all that they could to help it flourish. i can't help but feel that this is part of what it came down to. a lack of selflessness over the years, and needing to have a [physical] hand in the community. are you really going to stop your support for starcraft-related esports with that? i could see myself doing that, but i'm not that changed of a person yet. i'm geniunely excited with how much star2 has now because to me, it has that potential of furthering the depth and richness of people who play it. i see people ALL OVER THE WORLD going to events in person and doing what i see every event-goer do when they see their idol on stage.... and,, you say that you're not intersted in it--or more precisely the game that's being played. that's FINE.. i hope you grow happy with something else in your life sooner rather than later... i'm happy with what's available right this moment though. jaedong flash and bw legends in star2? fuuuuuuuuucking unreal hype. | ||
ImbaTosS
United Kingdom1689 Posts
On July 13 2012 17:55 nanaoei wrote: this all needs some realism to it, and what i say will anger some people regardless of if i want that or not. i have not seen more than one credible campaign to help bring back the BW leagues you know and love. (much love for kona's "One last push") frankly, a lot of us (foreigners) aren't physically there to observe the games and the culture. the players' efforts, personalities and storylines are all enjoyed through translated words and people who were actually there... or the scope and lenses of a camera---this is all regardless of how real it feels and seems. unfortunately, the game saw a very real end (the same way a lot of professional leagues do), and the main hubs for BW competition is stopping support for now. i know some people who are so selfish that even if they had a sport of art as important as BW [is to some people] to them, they would still not give all that they could to help it flourish. i can't help but feel that this is part of what it came down to. a lack of selflessness over the years, and needing to have a [physical] hand in the community. are you really going to stop your support for starcraft-related esports with that? i could see myself doing that, but i'm not that changed of a person yet. i'm geniunely excited with how much star2 has now because to me, it has that potential of furthering the depth and richness of people who play it. i see people ALL OVER THE WORLD going to events in person and doing what i see every event-goer do when they see their idol on stage.... and,, you say that you're not intersted in it--or more precisely the game that's being played. that's FINE.. i hope you grow happy with something else in your life sooner rather than later... i'm happy with what's available right this moment though. jaedong flash and bw legends in star2? fuuuuuuuuucking unreal hype. Yeah thanks for the newsflash, a whole post which begun by saying that we don't try to actually help (first count of bullshit), continued to accuse selfishness, and went on to bring the tired, maddening cliche about how lovely it'll be to see the players, whatever they're playing (second count of bullshit, for almost all here). To cap it all off you throw in the most exhausted troll favourite of insensitive kids everywhere- "jaedong flash and bw legends in star2? fuuuuuuuuucking unreal hype". Why should we share your peculiar opinions, and pretend they're all based around noble selflessness in some obscure way? Get off your high horse, you're not better than any of us. | ||
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EPT
huh? If he didn't want BW to be replaced by SC2, couldn't he have marshaled every other like-minded individual to find a way to see if pro BW could still be viable for a little bit longer? 
