This article was released by Dailyesports this morning. It was published under the ABC-Talk section, where they don't release names of the individuals mentioned in the article.
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It won't be long before Starcraft: Broodwar leagues will vanish. From the 3rd round of Proleague onwards, BW will be completely replaced with SC2 and the ongoing tving Starleague 2012 only has 2 matches left to be played.
For a long time, BW leagues were active only in Korea and lacked a globalized element. Yet fans will miss the leagues once they vanish.
Under these conditions, there is news that one company owner is questioning why BW leagues are being abolished. This CEO, who once met up with Kespa to discuss the founding of Team 8, has a tremendous love for BW. He has been hooked on BW since his school days. The company that he runs even has in-house PC Bangs to allow staff members to play games during their breaks. There is no SC2 installed on those PCs, only BW. Isn't this CEO's love for BW really immense?
It's been said that if this CEO were to sponsor a BW league, he would be willing to fork out twice the sponsorship money of the current league sponsor. According to one Kespa insider, "because BW leagues are definitely ending, he won't be funding an SC2 individual league or Team 8." The CEO had adamantly said that "the only game I want to invest in is BW. While BW was still being maintained, I considered establishing an association with Team 8 but I have no interest in SC2 leagues."
To hear such news after the recent, massively successful match between Jangbi and Zero, the overwhelming regret felt about the abolition of BW is like a tsunami that's crushing you.
------------------------------------- Translator's comments: Who knows whether the article is even true or not. It's under ABC-Talk.
In any case, it didn't say when he spoke to Kespa about the founding of Team 8, it could have been in 2011 or 2012. We've known for some time that Kespa has had the intention to switch to SC2 at least since 2011, if not even before that. So this CEO (if he exists) would have been told about this when he approached them about sponsoring a league/team.
On July 12 2012 13:12 DystopiaX wrote: If he was so willing to fund Team 8 or another tourney then why didn't he? Or at least make his interest known to the public earlier so that something could actually have happened? This makes him sound good and all but really he didn't do much, and I doubt he was as willing to do so as he claimed he was.
he says right in the interview. its because he didn't want to invest in SC2. It was largely known at that time that sc2 was being considered for Kespa leagues, I know this CEO would have known that and likely didn't invest in Team8 because of it
On July 12 2012 20:11 Fleuria wrote: He's one of those people that say bullshit like this for fame, all for his own gain, if he had any real passion he would invested in the bw scene when it was dying and they made the decision to swap, if he sponsored the next 3 osls or something it wouldn't have died but jk all talk no game.
I wasn't going to respond since I'm coughing green stuff and all that crap but some of you need to reread the article. Perhaps it wasn't clear before but now I'm setting it straight. ABC-Talk is a section written by DES staff who hear about "insider" news/gossip that they can't give official details about.
In this case, the DES staff who wrote this article heard about CEO X from a Kespa insider. According to the author of the article anyway. So no, this isn't some kind of attempt at fame/PR by the CEO. -_-
If he was so willing to fund Team 8 or another tourney then why didn't he? Or at least make his interest known to the public earlier so that something could actually have happened? This makes him sound good and all but really he didn't do much, and I doubt he was as willing to do so as he claimed he was.
On July 12 2012 13:12 DystopiaX wrote: If he was so willing to fund Team 8 or another tourney then why didn't he? Or at least make his interest known to the public earlier so that something could actually have happened? This makes him sound good and all but really he didn't do much, and I doubt he was as willing to do so as he claimed he was.
he says right in the interview. its because he didn't want to invest in SC2. It was largely known at that time that sc2 was being considered for Kespa leagues, I know this CEO would have known that and likely didn't invest in Team8 because of it
On July 12 2012 13:12 DystopiaX wrote: If he was so willing to fund Team 8 or another tourney then why didn't he? Or at least make his interest known to the public earlier so that something could actually have happened? This makes him sound good and all but really he didn't do much, and I doubt he was as willing to do so as he claimed he was.
he says right in the interview. its because he didn't want to invest in SC2. It was largely known at that time that sc2 was being considered for Kespa leagues, I know this CEO would have known that and likely didn't invest in Team8 because of it
Weird timing for article, but I don't think CEO's can always just do whatever they want. There probably is a board of trustees, official kespa business to go through, etc that take a lot of time. Especially if he wanted to do proleague instead of just 1 individual tournament (working out the details for a whole year of sponsorship with OGN). Surprised like first 5 responses was to be so aggressive against him--even if you can do whatever you want as CEO it would take time.
Good man, maybe a little overhyped, but sad to see TT
On July 12 2012 13:24 N.geNuity wrote: Weird timing for article, but I don't think CEO's can always just do whatever they want. There probably is a board of trustees, official kespa business to go through, etc that take a lot of time. Especially if he wanted to do proleague instead of just 1 individual tournament (working out the details for a whole year of sponsorship with OGN). Surprised like first 5 responses was to be so aggressive against him--even if you can do whatever you want as CEO it would take time.
Good man, maybe a little overhyped, but sad to see TT
Hmm yeah, I don't quite get all the negativity either. Noone even knows how big a company he runs. Negotiations take time, especially when Kespa is involved.
Feels very sensationalized and unverifiable. It could be true, but even if it is, you have to remember that it's pretty easy for someone in his position to make such grandiose claims about what he would have done after all is said and done. The fact of the matter is that he, and many other corporate sponsors, just weren't giving the kind of money they needed to keep the scene BW only, and long before the SC2 talks were even restarted.
On July 12 2012 13:24 N.geNuity wrote: Weird timing for article, but I don't think CEO's can always just do whatever they want. There probably is a board of trustees, official kespa business to go through, etc that take a lot of time. Especially if he wanted to do proleague instead of just 1 individual tournament (working out the details for a whole year of sponsorship with OGN). Surprised like first 5 responses was to be so aggressive against him--even if you can do whatever you want as CEO it would take time.
Good man, maybe a little overhyped, but sad to see TT
its actually tremendous balls to say something like this, because usually in business / corporate law it's illegal to not profit maximize when you have the knowledge of options in a leadership position (liability / responsibility to share holders). People really need to give him some slack, sure it might be a mixed PR statement but saying this could mean internal opposition with in his own company.
I agree with the first few responses. I mean, props for his support but it's not like BW suddenly went away overnight. We've had pity sponsorships for the last 2 years or so where this and other companies could have shown their support. Even if KeSPA was going to dab into SC2 eventually, if the BW support was there we'd probably just see separate divisions of PL like Special Forces rather than a full on transition. But it wasn't.
On July 12 2012 13:24 N.geNuity wrote: Weird timing for article, but I don't think CEO's can always just do whatever they want. There probably is a board of trustees, official kespa business to go through, etc that take a lot of time. Especially if he wanted to do proleague instead of just 1 individual tournament (working out the details for a whole year of sponsorship with OGN). Surprised like first 5 responses was to be so aggressive against him--even if you can do whatever you want as CEO it would take time.
Good man, maybe a little overhyped, but sad to see TT
its actually tremendous balls to say something like this, because usually in business / corporate law it's illegal to not profit maximize when you have the knowledge of options in a leadership position. People really need to give him some slack, sure it might be a mixed PR statement but saying this could mean internal opposition with in his own company.
Yeah, it's quite possible. Also, companies don't usually make an announcement about sponsoring a Kespa tournament until the agreement has been signed. There's not a lot of transparency.
I'm still waiting to see where all the new money SC2 is supposed to bring in will come from. Everyone acts like the obvious reason for switching to SC2 was to get sponsorship money from international companies, but it doesn't seem that obvious to me. If they were really after international attention wouldn't they have gone with the English client and gotten English commentary by now? The whole thing feels like some kind of conspiracy where half of the puzzle pieces are missing.
oh also didnt see that this until now--read too much into "holy shit some rich guy could have sponsored BW forever"--but the article also furthers the rumour in the snm thread that round 3 is a full switch but is a pretty definitive statement (although article isn't official news).
I'd like for BW to continue just like anyone else , but also like others have stated, I think this is a little to late to do any good, but I hope for the best. I expect the worst though. T_T
On July 12 2012 13:58 BrosephBrostar wrote: I'm still waiting to see where all the new money SC2 is supposed to bring in will come from. Everyone acts like the obvious reason for switching to SC2 was to get sponsorship money from international companies, but it doesn't seem that obvious to me. If they were really after international attention wouldn't they have gone with the English client and gotten English commentary by now? The whole thing feels like some kind of conspiracy where half of the puzzle pieces are missing.
On July 12 2012 13:13 LOcDowN wrote: Sounds like PR bullshit, just all talks when the smoke is cleared.
I'm inclined to agree with this, I want to be naive and believe otherwise, but recently theres a lot of talk but no action about stopping/disappointment in the SC2 juggernaut that is going to put BW away. (eg: Coach Park, Stork, probably a few other ones I can't recall right now)
On July 12 2012 13:58 BrosephBrostar wrote: I'm still waiting to see where all the new money SC2 is supposed to bring in will come from. Everyone acts like the obvious reason for switching to SC2 was to get sponsorship money from international companies, but it doesn't seem that obvious to me. If they were really after international attention wouldn't they have gone with the English client and gotten English commentary by now? The whole thing feels like some kind of conspiracy where half of the puzzle pieces are missing.
Redbull just sponsored StarTale.
If you look at the viewer counts for livestreams, MLG/Dreamhack are raking in over 20,000 viewers ( for days, not just for the ro16 or whatever) easily plus guys like destiny/stephano getting over 4,000 viewers whenever they stream. I'd assume GSL gets even more being the "Korean" tournament.
I think during the Jangbang OSL Sayle's count was like 2,000? There are probably more unlisted stream that get a few thousand here and there, plus ESPORTSTV . But yeah, SC 2 brings a higher viewer count and way way bigger international attention.
On July 12 2012 13:58 BrosephBrostar wrote: I'm still waiting to see where all the new money SC2 is supposed to bring in will come from. Everyone acts like the obvious reason for switching to SC2 was to get sponsorship money from international companies, but it doesn't seem that obvious to me. If they were really after international attention wouldn't they have gone with the English client and gotten English commentary by now? The whole thing feels like some kind of conspiracy where half of the puzzle pieces are missing.
On July 12 2012 13:58 BrosephBrostar wrote: I'm still waiting to see where all the new money SC2 is supposed to bring in will come from. Everyone acts like the obvious reason for switching to SC2 was to get sponsorship money from international companies, but it doesn't seem that obvious to me. If they were really after international attention wouldn't they have gone with the English client and gotten English commentary by now? The whole thing feels like some kind of conspiracy where half of the puzzle pieces are missing.
Redbull just sponsored StarTale.
If you look at the viewer counts for livestreams, MLG/Dreamhack are raking in over 20,000 viewers ( for days, not just for the ro16 or whatever) easily plus guys like destiny/stephano getting over 4,000 viewers whenever they stream. I'd assume GSL gets even more being the "Korean" tournament.
I think during the Jangbang OSL Sayle's count was like 2,000? There are probably more unlisted stream that get a few thousand here and there, plus ESPORTSTV . But yeah, SC 2 brings a higher viewer count and way way bigger international attention.
As a sc2 turned bw fan I am all for any continuation and hope to see more of the Chinese leagues if its all that we can get. But a continuation of a bw league would be great I wonder what the terms were of the agreement with blizzard and GOM and if it stated they had to swap to sc2. Hopefully if sponsorship comes through they can turn tail!
On July 12 2012 13:58 BrosephBrostar wrote: I'm still waiting to see where all the new money SC2 is supposed to bring in will come from. Everyone acts like the obvious reason for switching to SC2 was to get sponsorship money from international companies, but it doesn't seem that obvious to me. If they were really after international attention wouldn't they have gone with the English client and gotten English commentary by now? The whole thing feels like some kind of conspiracy where half of the puzzle pieces are missing.
Redbull just sponsored StarTale.
If you look at the viewer counts for livestreams, MLG/Dreamhack are raking in over 20,000 viewers ( for days, not just for the ro16 or whatever) easily plus guys like destiny/stephano getting over 4,000 viewers whenever they stream. I'd assume GSL gets even more being the "Korean" tournament.
I think during the Jangbang OSL Sayle's count was like 2,000? There are probably more unlisted stream that get a few thousand here and there, plus ESPORTSTV . But yeah, SC 2 brings a higher viewer count and way way bigger international attention.
You forget the people that watch BW on TV.
And the time I bothered to look there were 74k+ concurrent viewers for the OSL on this 1 Chinese stream (there are >5 streams)
I don't care if it "sounds" real or not - the truth is - one guy who owns a company cannot donate the amount of money it would take to run a sporting event. So for those saying "Well, it's too little, too late." but if he were to start a new league, he would have to contend with OGN. If OGN ceases supporting BroodWar, then it becomes more viable that he can take over BroodWar.
On July 12 2012 13:58 BrosephBrostar wrote: I'm still waiting to see where all the new money SC2 is supposed to bring in will come from. Everyone acts like the obvious reason for switching to SC2 was to get sponsorship money from international companies, but it doesn't seem that obvious to me. If they were really after international attention wouldn't they have gone with the English client and gotten English commentary by now? The whole thing feels like some kind of conspiracy where half of the puzzle pieces are missing.
Redbull just sponsored StarTale.
If you look at the viewer counts for livestreams, MLG/Dreamhack are raking in over 20,000 viewers ( for days, not just for the ro16 or whatever) easily plus guys like destiny/stephano getting over 4,000 viewers whenever they stream. I'd assume GSL gets even more being the "Korean" tournament.
I think during the Jangbang OSL Sayle's count was like 2,000? There are probably more unlisted stream that get a few thousand here and there, plus ESPORTSTV . But yeah, SC 2 brings a higher viewer count and way way bigger international attention.
You forget the people that watch BW on TV.
And the time I bothered to look there were 74k+ concurrent viewers for the OSL on this 1 Chinese stream (there are >5 streams)
BURN!!!
Which company CEO could this be... Hyundai? LG? Hmm...
On July 12 2012 13:58 BrosephBrostar wrote: I'm still waiting to see where all the new money SC2 is supposed to bring in will come from. Everyone acts like the obvious reason for switching to SC2 was to get sponsorship money from international companies, but it doesn't seem that obvious to me. If they were really after international attention wouldn't they have gone with the English client and gotten English commentary by now? The whole thing feels like some kind of conspiracy where half of the puzzle pieces are missing.
Redbull just sponsored StarTale.
If you look at the viewer counts for livestreams, MLG/Dreamhack are raking in over 20,000 viewers ( for days, not just for the ro16 or whatever) easily plus guys like destiny/stephano getting over 4,000 viewers whenever they stream. I'd assume GSL gets even more being the "Korean" tournament.
I think during the Jangbang OSL Sayle's count was like 2,000? There are probably more unlisted stream that get a few thousand here and there, plus ESPORTSTV . But yeah, SC 2 brings a higher viewer count and way way bigger international attention.
You forget the people that watch BW on TV.
And the time I bothered to look there were 74k+ concurrent viewers for the OSL on this 1 Chinese stream (there are >5 streams)
BURN!!!
Which company CEO could this be... Hyundai? LG? Hmm...
Definitely not LG since they sponsor Incredible Miracle.
On July 12 2012 13:58 BrosephBrostar wrote: I'm still waiting to see where all the new money SC2 is supposed to bring in will come from. Everyone acts like the obvious reason for switching to SC2 was to get sponsorship money from international companies, but it doesn't seem that obvious to me. If they were really after international attention wouldn't they have gone with the English client and gotten English commentary by now? The whole thing feels like some kind of conspiracy where half of the puzzle pieces are missing.
Redbull just sponsored StarTale.
If you look at the viewer counts for livestreams, MLG/Dreamhack are raking in over 20,000 viewers ( for days, not just for the ro16 or whatever) easily plus guys like destiny/stephano getting over 4,000 viewers whenever they stream. I'd assume GSL gets even more being the "Korean" tournament.
I think during the Jangbang OSL Sayle's count was like 2,000? There are probably more unlisted stream that get a few thousand here and there, plus ESPORTSTV . But yeah, SC 2 brings a higher viewer count and way way bigger international attention.
You forget the people that watch BW on TV.
And the time I bothered to look there were 74k+ concurrent viewers for the OSL on this 1 Chinese stream (there are >5 streams)
BURN!!!
Which company CEO could this be... Hyundai? LG? Hmm...
Definitely not LG since they sponsor Incredible Miracle.
Well if it's S.Korean it's not limited to just the technology industry, so could be anything.
On July 12 2012 13:58 BrosephBrostar wrote: I'm still waiting to see where all the new money SC2 is supposed to bring in will come from. Everyone acts like the obvious reason for switching to SC2 was to get sponsorship money from international companies, but it doesn't seem that obvious to me. If they were really after international attention wouldn't they have gone with the English client and gotten English commentary by now? The whole thing feels like some kind of conspiracy where half of the puzzle pieces are missing.
Redbull just sponsored StarTale.
If you look at the viewer counts for livestreams, MLG/Dreamhack are raking in over 20,000 viewers ( for days, not just for the ro16 or whatever) easily plus guys like destiny/stephano getting over 4,000 viewers whenever they stream. I'd assume GSL gets even more being the "Korean" tournament.
I think during the Jangbang OSL Sayle's count was like 2,000? There are probably more unlisted stream that get a few thousand here and there, plus ESPORTSTV . But yeah, SC 2 brings a higher viewer count and way way bigger international attention.
Sure viewer count is important but you have to consider the money and how Kespa is supposed to get it. Even though BW is having a hard time with sponsorship SC2 doesn't really seem to be doing that much better. When you look at BW sponsors it's major companies like SK Telecom and Samsung. Who sponsors SC2 teams? It isn't Verizon or GE or anything comparable to the Kespa corporations. Companies like Redbull are the kind of sponsorship SC2 needs if it wants to really take off, but what is Kespa doing to attract them? Going by the LR threads international viewership for PL seems pretty abysmal and the ideas that were talked about before the season began like English commentary have yet to go anywhere. Nothing about the situation adds up. It makes me think there's a really important factor driving things that we don't know about.
On July 12 2012 13:58 BrosephBrostar wrote: I'm still waiting to see where all the new money SC2 is supposed to bring in will come from. Everyone acts like the obvious reason for switching to SC2 was to get sponsorship money from international companies, but it doesn't seem that obvious to me. If they were really after international attention wouldn't they have gone with the English client and gotten English commentary by now? The whole thing feels like some kind of conspiracy where half of the puzzle pieces are missing.
Redbull just sponsored StarTale.
If you look at the viewer counts for livestreams, MLG/Dreamhack are raking in over 20,000 viewers ( for days, not just for the ro16 or whatever) easily plus guys like destiny/stephano getting over 4,000 viewers whenever they stream. I'd assume GSL gets even more being the "Korean" tournament.
I think during the Jangbang OSL Sayle's count was like 2,000? There are probably more unlisted stream that get a few thousand here and there, plus ESPORTSTV . But yeah, SC 2 brings a higher viewer count and way way bigger international attention.
SC2 brings bigger international viwership that's still a drop in the ocean when compared to Korean/China and their BW viwership.
As for Redbull sponsoring StarTale, it looks more like a minor sponsor. I have yet to see a major SC2 sponsor actually fork millions of dollars a years to support their team, like BW sponsors did. Currently it's not even a fraction of that (just read about the Intel sponsorship of Slayers, was supposed to be a big deal).
On July 12 2012 13:58 BrosephBrostar wrote: I'm still waiting to see where all the new money SC2 is supposed to bring in will come from. Everyone acts like the obvious reason for switching to SC2 was to get sponsorship money from international companies, but it doesn't seem that obvious to me. If they were really after international attention wouldn't they have gone with the English client and gotten English commentary by now? The whole thing feels like some kind of conspiracy where half of the puzzle pieces are missing.
Redbull just sponsored StarTale.
If you look at the viewer counts for livestreams, MLG/Dreamhack are raking in over 20,000 viewers ( for days, not just for the ro16 or whatever) easily plus guys like destiny/stephano getting over 4,000 viewers whenever they stream. I'd assume GSL gets even more being the "Korean" tournament.
I think during the Jangbang OSL Sayle's count was like 2,000? There are probably more unlisted stream that get a few thousand here and there, plus ESPORTSTV . But yeah, SC 2 brings a higher viewer count and way way bigger international attention.
SC2 brings bigger international viwership that's still a drop in the ocean when compared to Korean/China and their BW viwership.
As for Redbull sponsoring StarTale, it looks more like a minor sponsor. I have yet to see a major SC2 sponsor actually fork millions of dollars a years to support their team, like BW sponsors did. Currently it's not even a fraction of that (just read about the Intel sponsorship of Slayers, was supposed to be a big deal).
I believe the only sponsorship of an sc2 team that is similar to a BW team sponsorship is LG sponsoring IM, LG became part of the player ID and Mvp and Nestea get a good salary from it.
Unfortunately, I do think it's too late. Plans for SC2 switchover are already in place so ugh. Maybe 6 months ago this would be great. I don't know why he comes out and says this now though.
chinese viewers, korean tv watchers are probably a lot more than the viewers that gsl gets. The foreign stuff is only small though. But doesn't look like kespa is that interested in foreign sponsors anyways.
On July 12 2012 13:58 BrosephBrostar wrote: I'm still waiting to see where all the new money SC2 is supposed to bring in will come from. Everyone acts like the obvious reason for switching to SC2 was to get sponsorship money from international companies, but it doesn't seem that obvious to me. If they were really after international attention wouldn't they have gone with the English client and gotten English commentary by now? The whole thing feels like some kind of conspiracy where half of the puzzle pieces are missing.
Redbull just sponsored StarTale.
If you look at the viewer counts for livestreams, MLG/Dreamhack are raking in over 20,000 viewers ( for days, not just for the ro16 or whatever) easily plus guys like destiny/stephano getting over 4,000 viewers whenever they stream. I'd assume GSL gets even more being the "Korean" tournament.
I think during the Jangbang OSL Sayle's count was like 2,000? There are probably more unlisted stream that get a few thousand here and there, plus ESPORTSTV . But yeah, SC 2 brings a higher viewer count and way way bigger international attention.
there is a bigger outside of the english speaking world.
Well he didn't gave money for Team 8 but now he says he wants to support BW only, seems like an ad for his own company or for himself. The name of the company will be found out in no time anyway
wtf @ everyone making negative comments toward this! Yes the timing seems too late, but it's obvious he has been behind the scenes talking to kespa and everyone else much before any of us knew about the demise of BW. This CEO has made a PUBLIC statement of his stance on only supporting BW. All any of us have done at this point is make statements on TL about how we feel on the matter, so I don't see how any of you can give this guy grief. For all we know this could be the guy that resurrects the Korean BW scene. If I knew who this guy was I would send him a box of chocolates, because I feel the exact same way he does
On July 12 2012 15:56 slappy wrote: wtf @ everyone making negative comments toward this! Yes the timing seems too late, but it's obvious he has been behind the scenes talking to kespa and everyone else much before any of us knew about the demise of BW. This CEO has made a PUBLIC statement of his stance on only supporting BW. All any of us have done at this point is make statements on TL about how we feel on the matter, so I don't see how any of you can give this guy grief. For all we know this could be the guy that resurrects the Korean BW scene. If I knew who this guy was I would send him a box of chocolates, because I feel the exact same way he does
Agreed, just too many sc2 fanboys in here it seems.
On July 12 2012 15:49 Darksoldierr wrote: Well he didn't gave money for Team 8 but now he says he wants to support BW only, seems like an ad for his own company or for himself. The name of the company will be found out in no time anyway
Ok if it was an ad for his own company and himself why would he put it under an anonymous column where they probably wont ever find out his name or his company. LOL
On July 12 2012 15:56 slappy wrote: wtf @ everyone making negative comments toward this! Yes the timing seems too late, but it's obvious he has been behind the scenes talking to kespa and everyone else much before any of us knew about the demise of BW. This CEO has made a PUBLIC statement of his stance on only supporting BW. All any of us have done at this point is make statements on TL about how we feel on the matter, so I don't see how any of you can give this guy grief. For all we know this could be the guy that resurrects the Korean BW scene. If I knew who this guy was I would send him a box of chocolates, because I feel the exact same way he does
Agreed, just too many sc2 fanboys in here it seems.
Team tags and post counts are how you tell the sc2 boys from the BW fatalists. With BW, there are the fans who want to sit in a corner and pout, and there are those who want to raise their fist in loud acclaim. Sounds like this CEO is the latter. The thread recently opened, "One last push", by Konadora, and this CEO's statements are very similar timings. What makes this CEO so different than us and our efforts(besides the fact that he has been way more involved and active behind the scenes than we could dream of)? He gets more credit than we do as far as one voice goes. If ALL OF BW TL banded together and came up with a huge statement toward the carrying on of the BW scene, maybe we could amount to something of worth as well.
He can still go for his own starleague. If it has a big enough prizemoney, I am sure people like Jangbi (see my signature) will play in it. Also there are still some really good semipros, which will def play that.
The entire BW infrastructure is gone. There are only 3 players left with incentive to play BW. Everyone else has to play SC2 lest they lose their progamer livelihood.
On July 12 2012 15:56 slappy wrote: wtf @ everyone making negative comments toward this! Yes the timing seems too late, but it's obvious he has been behind the scenes talking to kespa and everyone else much before any of us knew about the demise of BW. This CEO has made a PUBLIC statement of his stance on only supporting BW. All any of us have done at this point is make statements on TL about how we feel on the matter, so I don't see how any of you can give this guy grief. For all we know this could be the guy that resurrects the Korean BW scene. If I knew who this guy was I would send him a box of chocolates, because I feel the exact same way he does
He may have at some point trying to make his company sponsor something BW related (team or tournament), and I respect him for that. But a year ago, as a CEO, he could have made a non anonymous announcement saying that he was publicly supporting BW. And all the answers on the thread would have been "FUCK YEAH CEO <3<3<3".
That move could have made other executives from any company step up. I mean Korean Air executives publicly showed their support for BW. It's not about them sponsoring 2 OSLs, it's about them publicly saying "We love Brood War and we are proud to support it". In a context where sponsors were shy and hesitating because of IP lawsuit/match fixing scandal, such an announcement for Korean Air was invaluable to the scene.
Even if he didn't successfully convince the shareholders of his company (do every sponsoring deal even have to go through the board of directors?) he could have showed his support. Not anonymously, and when it wasn't too late.
edit: Don't misunderstand me, this anonymous statement is still much much better than if he had remained silent forever, but it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.
this CEO dude is smart enough and didnt whistled past few years just because BW and KESPA itself was in danger because of Blizzard and its ip rights bullshit. Blizzard itself have scared all the investors and possible sponsors when they tried to screw over BW with their quarrel with KESPA. Now the things are calmer and Blizzard/Kespa have achieved their plan and deals to kill BW entirely, CEO's and rich guys like this will start talking now.
I get what you're saying Endy, but obviously this guy sat in meetings with Kespa to discuss these matters and got fed a mouthful of sc2. We're all spectators on the side lines here expecting the universe from this guy, but I'm sure he knows a thing or two that we don't. Yea, the timing of his statement is like raising morale only to smash it lower than before, so I wonder whether I'd be happier if this statement was never released, but maybe there's more going on behind the scenes that we don't know about that this CEO is fighting for? He seems to have every bit of passion that I do for BW, and if I was in his position I'd be pulling every string I could.
Reading that gave me a little hope for the BW scene, but I believe that even if this CEO was to sponsor his own BW league, it wouldn't last very long (unless he's the head of some major company like SBS), since it doesn't seem very profitable, and all the major players would know that SC2 is the future, and therefore would invest their time into getting good at SC2 to be able to have the results they need to succeed. If only there was something anyone could do to keep the scene alive and well in Korea...
Please for the love of brood war, make this happen. I know for a fact there will still be the same amount of live spectators in korea and in china that want specifically BW, not SC2. I don't think I can watch another sc2 match, especially that fat kid MC. Flash all day er day.
This talk of sponsorship while keeping the company anonymous always sounds really suspect to me. Though the same thing back when there was "news" about team8 sponsorship last year... I suppose it could have been the same company.
On July 12 2012 16:43 Marshall_D wrote: Please for the love of brood war, make this happen. I know for a fact there will still be the same amount of live spectators in korea and in china that want specifically BW, not SC2. I don't think I can watch another sc2 match, especially that fat kid MC. Flash all day er day.
MC still cool =3 calm down this thread is about BW not SC2
Well that sucks :/ Would have been nice if something had happened, I mean Team 8 could really use a sponsor. This interview feels like it came about out of regret, you know when you've missed out on doing something and now it's too late, but you still want people to know you wanted to do something...sadly that's all this interview will amount to I think, just intentions.
Well with the implication under this is a bit clearer. Not much too say really, except I guess I share some strange love with a CEO from a country half a world away whose culture is completely foreign to me. I'll let the polemics to other people, not in the mood today. And yes, thanks Ryo, your work and dedication is always appreciated, get better soon =)
It's simple really. It's for the same reason why I and many others do not support the current form of Proleague. Why would anyone support a transition away from a game they love?
On July 12 2012 17:59 flashimba wrote: It's simple really. It's for the same reason why I and many others do not support the current form of Proleague. Why would anyone support a transition away from a game they love?
its transitioning away in the first place because they don't have the support
On July 12 2012 13:10 GTR wrote: So, where was this guy when the scene needed him the most? D: I mean passion is great and all, but what use is there to it if you can't use it?
Exactly. Why didn't he sponsor Team8 when he had the chance? Seems like a lot of talk to me :[
On July 12 2012 13:10 GTR wrote: So, where was this guy when the scene needed him the most? D: I mean passion is great and all, but what use is there to it if you can't use it?
Exactly. Why didn't he sponsor Team8 when he had the chance? Seems like a lot of talk to me :[
Because Kespa was going to eventually going to switch to SC2 anyways as the BW scene was very unstable. Team 8 not having a sponsor was probably a smallest issue. Also, the dude only likes BW so he'll only throw money at it if he's sure the BW scene won't collapse. People don't like to invest money on uncertainties. I thought the article's point was pretty simple to grasp.
On July 12 2012 15:49 Darksoldierr wrote: Well he didn't gave money for Team 8 but now he says he wants to support BW only, seems like an ad for his own company or for himself. The name of the company will be found out in no time anyway
Ok if it was an ad for his own company and himself why would he put it under an anonymous column where they probably wont ever find out his name or his company. LOL
It would be a shameless ad if he would come out with his name. Give it a month, everyone will know who is this guy, and he can say "oh but i went anyonym, no idea how it happend"
A lot of you are focusing on the wrong part of his article. He stated that he wasn't interested in SCToo, so sponsoring T8 was not an option (which is fine, well ok not really but understandable). On that point it's interesting when he talked to Kespa - in '11 or '12. In case it was this year, then it's more understandable.
What he could (and should) have done is sponsor the current OSL (which did not have a sponsor till the very last second) and/or talk to OGN and sponsor the next one as well - on condition it would be BW. This way he would be able to prolong the prosperity of pro BW a bit more. And it would also give Kespa something to think about regarding the switch. Obviouslt none of that happened, so either he did not have the foresight or he was unable to go through with his plans.
Regardless which one it was in the end, it is heartwarming that there are people in Korea that think like us and want to sponsor a Starleague (and are in position to do that). Of course my whole argument is based on the article being a legitimate piece, otherwise it's all moot.
He's one of those people that say bullshit like this for fame, all for his own gain, if he had any real passion he would invested in the bw scene when it was dying and they made the decision to swap, if he sponsored the next 3 osls or something it wouldn't have died but jk all talk no game.
On July 12 2012 13:10 GTR wrote: So, where was this guy when the scene needed him the most? D: I mean passion is great and all, but what use is there to it if you can't use it?
Exactly. Why didn't he sponsor Team8 when he had the chance? Seems like a lot of talk to me :[
Because Kespa was going to eventually going to switch to SC2 anyways as the BW scene was very unstable. Team 8 not having a sponsor was probably a smallest issue. Also, the dude only likes BW so he'll only throw money at it if he's sure the BW scene won't collapse. People don't like to invest money on uncertainties. I thought the article's point was pretty simple to grasp.
And what should we gather from the fact that he did not invest in anything BW? That he just sat around thinking about it until the clock ran out on all opportunities? The article is silly. It offers an appeal to emotion from Mr. X, and nothing more for anyone. There is nothing you, a BW fan, can take from this article but additional angst. There's nothing I, a SC2 fan, can take from this article at all.
Kespa killed it's chance of getting any more sponsor when they announced their switch to sc2 and potential sponsors like the one stated in article didn't want to get involve with the sc2 brand as they viewed broodwar to be a more promising game and brand . It's kespa fault any way and I don't blame the ceo in any way for not investing in something that doesn't appeal to him and his company image .
On July 12 2012 20:11 Fleuria wrote: He's one of those people that say bullshit like this for fame, all for his own gain, if he had any real passion he would invested in the bw scene when it was dying and they made the decision to swap, if he sponsored the next 3 osls or something it wouldn't have died but jk all talk no game.
I wasn't going to respond since I'm coughing green stuff and all that crap but some of you need to reread the article. Perhaps it wasn't clear before but now I'm setting it straight. ABC-Talk is a section written by DES staff who hear about "insider" news/gossip that they can't give official details about.
In this case, the DES staff who wrote this article heard about CEO X from a Kespa insider. According to the author of the article anyway. So no, this isn't some kind of attempt at fame/PR by the CEO. -_-
Well what did you expect? There will never be an esport thats as interesting and beautiful to watch as Broodwar. It's been deemed culture and when you hear the word esports, especially on TL, it's not uncommon to think of Boodwar. SC2 is like LoL to a Quake player. It's not as interesting, doesn't look as difficult, doesn't have the same epic moments and is not as personal, hence the lack of excitement. And add to it that all of a sudden, even noobs can do the tricky gosu skits. Broodwar may be dead, we can thank the main stream for that, but perhaps one day, in a galaxy far, far away, someone will realize 'how awesome 2 lurkers on hold position at the top of a 3rd exp's choke defending against 9 marines, 2 medics & 1 firebat looks like, just as the terran force stims and falls right into the trap.'
On July 12 2012 20:11 Fleuria wrote: He's one of those people that say bullshit like this for fame, all for his own gain, if he had any real passion he would invested in the bw scene when it was dying and they made the decision to swap, if he sponsored the next 3 osls or something it wouldn't have died but jk all talk no game.
I wasn't going to respond since I'm coughing green stuff and all that crap but some of you need to reread the article. Perhaps it wasn't clear before but now I'm setting it straight. ABC-Talk is a section written by DES staff who hear about "insider" news/gossip that they can't give official details about.
In this case, the DES staff who wrote this article heard about CEO X from a Kespa insider. According to the author of the article anyway. So no, this isn't some kind of attempt at fame/PR by the CEO. -_-
It won't take a genius to figure out who the guy is... it already states he runs a highly successful lan cafe, won't take to long before the scene finds out who the guy is, this is the internet you know.
end of the day, if he wanted to save broodwar he would of done it when OSL was struggling for a sponsor and for other support.
On July 12 2012 20:11 Fleuria wrote: He's one of those people that say bullshit like this for fame, all for his own gain, if he had any real passion he would invested in the bw scene when it was dying and they made the decision to swap, if he sponsored the next 3 osls or something it wouldn't have died but jk all talk no game.
I wasn't going to respond since I'm coughing green stuff and all that crap but some of you need to reread the article. Perhaps it wasn't clear before but now I'm setting it straight. ABC-Talk is a section written by DES staff who hear about "insider" news/gossip that they can't give official details about.
In this case, the DES staff who wrote this article heard about CEO X from a Kespa insider. According to the author of the article anyway. So no, this isn't some kind of attempt at fame/PR by the CEO. -_-
It won't take a genius to figure out who the guy is... it already states he runs a highly successful lan cafe, won't take to long before the scene finds out who the guy is, this is the internet you know.
end of the day, if he wanted to save broodwar he would of done it when OSL was struggling for a sponsor and for other support.
Really, he runs a highly successful lan cafe? Where did you hear that from? -_-
Ok, I'll give my interpretation of what the article is trying to say. A CEO tried to exchange his sponsorship in exchange of "long term" guanrantees that bw wouldn't be fazed out. Apparently that did not work, which shows that the "impossible to find sponsorship for bw" talk was mayyyybe not that true, and that the sc2 transition happened for more complicated reasons than that. As this did not work, a gossip journalist gives the info. I don't know how you can get mad at the guy for ffree advertising or not stepping up earlier, what he tried to do seems pretty clear and understandable.
So what? Broodwar could've survived if it had debased itself to becoming the pet charity of some nostalgic multi-millionaire? Where was this guy when MBCGame was struggling to find a MSL sponsor? Where was he when eSTRO disbanded?
Honestly this shouldn't come as a surprise. There's a lot of sad and angry Broodwar fans amongst us poor people, it makes sense it's the same for rich Broodwar fans. But words are cheap. The suggestion of this article is that "Broodwar could survive if it wasn't switching to SC2", but I call bullshit on that. MBC didn't disband MBCGame because they hated SC2. I seriously doubt Wemade pulled their sponsorship because they didn't want to sponsor SC2 either. What I'm hearing from this article is that there's a passionate CEO who would've wanted to support Broodwar. What I'm not hearing is that there's a business-savy CEO who thinks sponsoring Broodwar is going to help his company. I don't think there's any question that if KeSPA wasn't 'forcing' the switch to SC2, Broodwar would've continued to muddle on. But it would've done so as a shadow of its former self.
I can understand that this guy wants to vent his frustration and anger at seeing something he loves end. But nostalgia and charity is not something to base an industry on. Imo it would be nothing short of selfish and irresponsible to ask progamers to throw away their youth on a scene dependant on the whims of a bunch of rich benefactors.
On July 12 2012 21:03 nadafanboy42 wrote: So what? Broodwar could've survived if it had debased itself to becoming the pet charity of some nostalgic multi-millionaire? Where was this guy when MBCGame was struggling to find a MSL sponsor? Where was he when eSTRO disbanded?
Honestly this shouldn't come as a surprise. There's a lot of sad and angry Broodwar fans amongst us poor people, it makes sense it's the same for rich Broodwar fans. But words are cheap. The suggestion of this article is that "Broodwar could survive if it wasn't switching to SC2", but I call bullshit on that. MBC didn't disband MBCGame because they hated SC2. I seriously doubt Wemade pulled their sponsorship because they didn't want to sponsor SC2 either. What I'm hearing from this article is that there's a passionate CEO who would've wanted to support Broodwar. What I'm not hearing is that there's a business-savy CEO who thinks sponsoring Broodwar is going to help his company. I don't think there's any question that if KeSPA wasn't 'forcing' the switch to SC2, Broodwar would've continued to muddle on. But it would've done so as a shadow of its former self.
I can understand that this guy wants to vent his frustration and anger at seeing something he loves end. But nostalgia and charity is not something to base an industry on. Imo it would be nothing short of selfish and irresponsible to ask progamers to throw away their youth on a scene dependant on the whims of a bunch of rich benefactors.
No other companies would have killed a product that they have been created for a life time that is supposed to last only 5 years at maximum to be still popular at large and still running competitions in a country . Blizzard and Co did it and I blame them too for the murder of broodwar thanks to them suing poor mbcgame who is already running on low funds and also ogn.There is no other way of saying this but hey thanks for suing everything that is still giving you free promotion of a game that is already expired beyond it's designated life cycle .They asked for this in order to ensure that their new game becomes the only game that is popular in korea. No one else is to be blame except blizzard for all of this .
On July 12 2012 21:03 nadafanboy42 wrote: So what? Broodwar could've survived if it had debased itself to becoming the pet charity of some nostalgic multi-millionaire? Where was this guy when MBCGame was struggling to find a MSL sponsor? Where was he when eSTRO disbanded?
Honestly this shouldn't come as a surprise. There's a lot of sad and angry Broodwar fans amongst us poor people, it makes sense it's the same for rich Broodwar fans. But words are cheap. The suggestion of this article is that "Broodwar could survive if it wasn't switching to SC2", but I call bullshit on that. MBC didn't disband MBCGame because they hated SC2. I seriously doubt Wemade pulled their sponsorship because they didn't want to sponsor SC2 either. What I'm hearing from this article is that there's a passionate CEO who would've wanted to support Broodwar. What I'm not hearing is that there's a business-savy CEO who thinks sponsoring Broodwar is going to help his company. I don't think there's any question that if KeSPA wasn't 'forcing' the switch to SC2, Broodwar would've continued to muddle on. But it would've done so as a shadow of its former self.
I can understand that this guy wants to vent his frustration and anger at seeing something he loves end. But nostalgia and charity is not something to base an industry on. Imo it would be nothing short of selfish and irresponsible to ask progamers to throw away their youth on a scene dependant on the whims of a bunch of rich benefactors.
No other companies would have killed a product that they have been created for a life time that is supposed to last only 5 years at maximum to be still popular at large and still running competitions in a country . Blizzard and Co did it and I blame them too for the murder of broodwar thanks to them suing poor mbcgame who is already running on low funds and ogn . No one else is to be blame except blizzard for all of this .
Well, I mean they basically shifted support to SC2, they didn't actively kill BW, it died on its own due to alot of external events. Blizz didn't make MSL go away, blizz didn't make the match fixing scandal, blizz didn't divert away sponsors and corporate interest (in many ways other games - indirect competitors like LoL also contributed). Be reasonable with the criticism, Blizzard has alot to blame and is an easy target, but be rational about it.
On July 12 2012 21:03 nadafanboy42 wrote: So what? Broodwar could've survived if it had debased itself to becoming the pet charity of some nostalgic multi-millionaire? Where was this guy when MBCGame was struggling to find a MSL sponsor? Where was he when eSTRO disbanded?
Honestly this shouldn't come as a surprise. There's a lot of sad and angry Broodwar fans amongst us poor people, it makes sense it's the same for rich Broodwar fans. But words are cheap. The suggestion of this article is that "Broodwar could survive if it wasn't switching to SC2", but I call bullshit on that. MBC didn't disband MBCGame because they hated SC2. I seriously doubt Wemade pulled their sponsorship because they didn't want to sponsor SC2 either. What I'm hearing from this article is that there's a passionate CEO who would've wanted to support Broodwar. What I'm not hearing is that there's a business-savy CEO who thinks sponsoring Broodwar is going to help his company. I don't think there's any question that if KeSPA wasn't 'forcing' the switch to SC2, Broodwar would've continued to muddle on. But it would've done so as a shadow of its former self.
I can understand that this guy wants to vent his frustration and anger at seeing something he loves end. But nostalgia and charity is not something to base an industry on. Imo it would be nothing short of selfish and irresponsible to ask progamers to throw away their youth on a scene dependant on the whims of a bunch of rich benefactors.
No other companies would have killed a product that they have been created for a life time that is supposed to last only 5 years at maximum to be still popular at large and still running competitions in a country
Erm basically the entire tech industry is like this, rolling out new versions that are mild improvements (some times not even) at more expensive prices, look at apple =_= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence And they will do this and keep doing it because the financial economy where consumers are ignorant and susceptible to marketing will always fall for it.
I admit an am no BW veteran (got into starcraft when SC2 came out), but i like watching BW matches. My problem with this article is that he could have sponsored this last OSL to show that he cared.
And what did he do? Nothing..... Sponsoring one OSL didn't mean he would be sponsoring the SC2 scene.
On July 12 2012 21:03 nadafanboy42 wrote: So what? Broodwar could've survived if it had debased itself to becoming the pet charity of some nostalgic multi-millionaire? Where was this guy when MBCGame was struggling to find a MSL sponsor? Where was he when eSTRO disbanded?
Honestly this shouldn't come as a surprise. There's a lot of sad and angry Broodwar fans amongst us poor people, it makes sense it's the same for rich Broodwar fans. But words are cheap. The suggestion of this article is that "Broodwar could survive if it wasn't switching to SC2", but I call bullshit on that. MBC didn't disband MBCGame because they hated SC2. I seriously doubt Wemade pulled their sponsorship because they didn't want to sponsor SC2 either. What I'm hearing from this article is that there's a passionate CEO who would've wanted to support Broodwar. What I'm not hearing is that there's a business-savy CEO who thinks sponsoring Broodwar is going to help his company. I don't think there's any question that if KeSPA wasn't 'forcing' the switch to SC2, Broodwar would've continued to muddle on. But it would've done so as a shadow of its former self.
I can understand that this guy wants to vent his frustration and anger at seeing something he loves end. But nostalgia and charity is not something to base an industry on. Imo it would be nothing short of selfish and irresponsible to ask progamers to throw away their youth on a scene dependant on the whims of a bunch of rich benefactors.
No other companies would have killed a product that they have been created for a life time that is supposed to last only 5 years at maximum to be still popular at large and still running competitions in a country
Erm basically the entire tech industry is like this, rolling out new versions that are mild improvements (some times not even) at more expensive prices, look at apple =_= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence And they will do this and keep doing it because the financial economy where consumers are ignorant and susceptible to marketing will always fall for it.
Well since we are discussing business here I have a great counter example to this anyway and it broodwar should have gone the same way and have gone open source.
On July 12 2012 21:03 nadafanboy42 wrote: So what? Broodwar could've survived if it had debased itself to becoming the pet charity of some nostalgic multi-millionaire? Where was this guy when MBCGame was struggling to find a MSL sponsor? Where was he when eSTRO disbanded?
Honestly this shouldn't come as a surprise. There's a lot of sad and angry Broodwar fans amongst us poor people, it makes sense it's the same for rich Broodwar fans. But words are cheap. The suggestion of this article is that "Broodwar could survive if it wasn't switching to SC2", but I call bullshit on that. MBC didn't disband MBCGame because they hated SC2. I seriously doubt Wemade pulled their sponsorship because they didn't want to sponsor SC2 either. What I'm hearing from this article is that there's a passionate CEO who would've wanted to support Broodwar. What I'm not hearing is that there's a business-savy CEO who thinks sponsoring Broodwar is going to help his company. I don't think there's any question that if KeSPA wasn't 'forcing' the switch to SC2, Broodwar would've continued to muddle on. But it would've done so as a shadow of its former self.
I can understand that this guy wants to vent his frustration and anger at seeing something he loves end. But nostalgia and charity is not something to base an industry on. Imo it would be nothing short of selfish and irresponsible to ask progamers to throw away their youth on a scene dependant on the whims of a bunch of rich benefactors.
No other companies would have killed a product that they have been created for a life time that is supposed to last only 5 years at maximum to be still popular at large and still running competitions in a country . Blizzard and Co did it and I blame them too for the murder of broodwar thanks to them suing poor mbcgame who is already running on low funds and ogn . No one else is to be blame except blizzard for all of this .
Well, I mean they basically shifted support to SC2, they didn't actively kill BW, it died on its own due to alot of external events. Blizz didn't make MSL go away, blizz didn't make the match fixing scandal, blizz didn't divert away sponsors and corporate interest (in many ways other games - indirect competitors like LoL also contributed). Be reasonable with the criticism, Blizzard has alot to blame and is an easy target, but be rational about it.
It's about half match-fixing, half Blizzard lawsuits. So yeah, while Blizzard is not TOTALLY at fault, to say that it had no part in killing BW is just being naive.
On July 12 2012 21:03 nadafanboy42 wrote: So what? Broodwar could've survived if it had debased itself to becoming the pet charity of some nostalgic multi-millionaire? Where was this guy when MBCGame was struggling to find a MSL sponsor? Where was he when eSTRO disbanded?
Honestly this shouldn't come as a surprise. There's a lot of sad and angry Broodwar fans amongst us poor people, it makes sense it's the same for rich Broodwar fans. But words are cheap. The suggestion of this article is that "Broodwar could survive if it wasn't switching to SC2", but I call bullshit on that. MBC didn't disband MBCGame because they hated SC2. I seriously doubt Wemade pulled their sponsorship because they didn't want to sponsor SC2 either. What I'm hearing from this article is that there's a passionate CEO who would've wanted to support Broodwar. What I'm not hearing is that there's a business-savy CEO who thinks sponsoring Broodwar is going to help his company. I don't think there's any question that if KeSPA wasn't 'forcing' the switch to SC2, Broodwar would've continued to muddle on. But it would've done so as a shadow of its former self.
I can understand that this guy wants to vent his frustration and anger at seeing something he loves end. But nostalgia and charity is not something to base an industry on. Imo it would be nothing short of selfish and irresponsible to ask progamers to throw away their youth on a scene dependant on the whims of a bunch of rich benefactors.
No other companies would have killed a product that they have been created for a life time that is supposed to last only 5 years at maximum to be still popular at large and still running competitions in a country . Blizzard and Co did it and I blame them too for the murder of broodwar thanks to them suing poor mbcgame who is already running on low funds and ogn . No one else is to be blame except blizzard for all of this .
Well, I mean they basically shifted support to SC2, they didn't actively kill BW, it died on its own due to alot of external events. Blizz didn't make MSL go away, blizz didn't make the match fixing scandal, blizz didn't divert away sponsors and corporate interest (in many ways other games - indirect competitors like LoL also contributed). Be reasonable with the criticism, Blizzard has alot to blame and is an easy target, but be rational about it.
It's about half match-fixing, half Blizzard lawsuits. So yeah, while Blizzard is not TOTALLY at fault, to say that it had no part in killing BW is just being naive.
Blizzard lawsuits were over profits against Kespa, how about this, what if Kespa had agreed to let blizzard have broadcasting profit margins, then blizzard supported the whole BW scene right there? Also besides, Blizzard was going to push the newer product regardless, I'm not defending it from a BW fan perspective, just saying that it was going to happen.
It would be nice if he'd invest in BW anyways, such as in grassroots weekend lans or something, but it sounds he like might be just as sad and disillusioned as the rest of us, so maybe not. Anyways, if he's a CEO he doesn't have the right to spend the money however he wants to, so he'd have to generate some kind of ROI. I'm glad there are fans who won't stand for anything but Broodwar--it gives me hope that we'll continue to have something in the absence of Kespa, whether this guy is involved or not.
On July 12 2012 21:03 nadafanboy42 wrote: So what? Broodwar could've survived if it had debased itself to becoming the pet charity of some nostalgic multi-millionaire? Where was this guy when MBCGame was struggling to find a MSL sponsor? Where was he when eSTRO disbanded?
Honestly this shouldn't come as a surprise. There's a lot of sad and angry Broodwar fans amongst us poor people, it makes sense it's the same for rich Broodwar fans. But words are cheap. The suggestion of this article is that "Broodwar could survive if it wasn't switching to SC2", but I call bullshit on that. MBC didn't disband MBCGame because they hated SC2. I seriously doubt Wemade pulled their sponsorship because they didn't want to sponsor SC2 either. What I'm hearing from this article is that there's a passionate CEO who would've wanted to support Broodwar. What I'm not hearing is that there's a business-savy CEO who thinks sponsoring Broodwar is going to help his company. I don't think there's any question that if KeSPA wasn't 'forcing' the switch to SC2, Broodwar would've continued to muddle on. But it would've done so as a shadow of its former self.
I can understand that this guy wants to vent his frustration and anger at seeing something he loves end. But nostalgia and charity is not something to base an industry on. Imo it would be nothing short of selfish and irresponsible to ask progamers to throw away their youth on a scene dependant on the whims of a bunch of rich benefactors.
No other companies would have killed a product that they have been created for a life time that is supposed to last only 5 years at maximum to be still popular at large and still running competitions in a country . Blizzard and Co did it and I blame them too for the murder of broodwar thanks to them suing poor mbcgame who is already running on low funds and ogn . No one else is to be blame except blizzard for all of this .
Well, I mean they basically shifted support to SC2, they didn't actively kill BW, it died on its own due to alot of external events. Blizz didn't make MSL go away, blizz didn't make the match fixing scandal, blizz didn't divert away sponsors and corporate interest (in many ways other games - indirect competitors like LoL also contributed). Be reasonable with the criticism, Blizzard has alot to blame and is an easy target, but be rational about it.
It's about half match-fixing, half Blizzard lawsuits. So yeah, while Blizzard is not TOTALLY at fault, to say that it had no part in killing BW is just being naive.
Blizzard lawsuits were over profits against Kespa, how about this, what if Kespa had agreed to let blizzard have broadcasting profit margins, then blizzard supported the whole BW scene right there? Also besides, Blizzard was going to push the newer product regardless, I'm not defending it from a BW fan perspective, just saying that it was going to happen.
I knew it was going to happen anyway but that doesn't make me any less upset at Blizzard. Should it?
On July 12 2012 21:03 nadafanboy42 wrote: So what? Broodwar could've survived if it had debased itself to becoming the pet charity of some nostalgic multi-millionaire? Where was this guy when MBCGame was struggling to find a MSL sponsor? Where was he when eSTRO disbanded?
Honestly this shouldn't come as a surprise. There's a lot of sad and angry Broodwar fans amongst us poor people, it makes sense it's the same for rich Broodwar fans. But words are cheap. The suggestion of this article is that "Broodwar could survive if it wasn't switching to SC2", but I call bullshit on that. MBC didn't disband MBCGame because they hated SC2. I seriously doubt Wemade pulled their sponsorship because they didn't want to sponsor SC2 either. What I'm hearing from this article is that there's a passionate CEO who would've wanted to support Broodwar. What I'm not hearing is that there's a business-savy CEO who thinks sponsoring Broodwar is going to help his company. I don't think there's any question that if KeSPA wasn't 'forcing' the switch to SC2, Broodwar would've continued to muddle on. But it would've done so as a shadow of its former self.
I can understand that this guy wants to vent his frustration and anger at seeing something he loves end. But nostalgia and charity is not something to base an industry on. Imo it would be nothing short of selfish and irresponsible to ask progamers to throw away their youth on a scene dependant on the whims of a bunch of rich benefactors.
No other companies would have killed a product that they have been created for a life time that is supposed to last only 5 years at maximum to be still popular at large and still running competitions in a country . Blizzard and Co did it and I blame them too for the murder of broodwar thanks to them suing poor mbcgame who is already running on low funds and ogn . No one else is to be blame except blizzard for all of this .
Well, I mean they basically shifted support to SC2, they didn't actively kill BW, it died on its own due to alot of external events. Blizz didn't make MSL go away, blizz didn't make the match fixing scandal, blizz didn't divert away sponsors and corporate interest (in many ways other games - indirect competitors like LoL also contributed). Be reasonable with the criticism, Blizzard has alot to blame and is an easy target, but be rational about it.
It's about half match-fixing, half Blizzard lawsuits. So yeah, while Blizzard is not TOTALLY at fault, to say that it had no part in killing BW is just being naive.
Blizzard lawsuits were over profits against Kespa, how about this, what if Kespa had agreed to let blizzard have broadcasting profit margins, then blizzard supported the whole BW scene right there? Also besides, Blizzard was going to push the newer product regardless, I'm not defending it from a BW fan perspective, just saying that it was going to happen.
I knew it was going to happen anyway but that doesn't make me any less upset at Blizzard. Should it?
Well, it's fine to be upset, I'm upset too, want a hug?
On July 12 2012 21:03 nadafanboy42 wrote: So what? Broodwar could've survived if it had debased itself to becoming the pet charity of some nostalgic multi-millionaire? Where was this guy when MBCGame was struggling to find a MSL sponsor? Where was he when eSTRO disbanded?
Honestly this shouldn't come as a surprise. There's a lot of sad and angry Broodwar fans amongst us poor people, it makes sense it's the same for rich Broodwar fans. But words are cheap. The suggestion of this article is that "Broodwar could survive if it wasn't switching to SC2", but I call bullshit on that. MBC didn't disband MBCGame because they hated SC2. I seriously doubt Wemade pulled their sponsorship because they didn't want to sponsor SC2 either. What I'm hearing from this article is that there's a passionate CEO who would've wanted to support Broodwar. What I'm not hearing is that there's a business-savy CEO who thinks sponsoring Broodwar is going to help his company. I don't think there's any question that if KeSPA wasn't 'forcing' the switch to SC2, Broodwar would've continued to muddle on. But it would've done so as a shadow of its former self.
I can understand that this guy wants to vent his frustration and anger at seeing something he loves end. But nostalgia and charity is not something to base an industry on. Imo it would be nothing short of selfish and irresponsible to ask progamers to throw away their youth on a scene dependant on the whims of a bunch of rich benefactors.
No other companies would have killed a product that they have been created for a life time that is supposed to last only 5 years at maximum to be still popular at large and still running competitions in a country . Blizzard and Co did it and I blame them too for the murder of broodwar thanks to them suing poor mbcgame who is already running on low funds and ogn . No one else is to be blame except blizzard for all of this .
Well, I mean they basically shifted support to SC2, they didn't actively kill BW, it died on its own due to alot of external events. Blizz didn't make MSL go away, blizz didn't make the match fixing scandal, blizz didn't divert away sponsors and corporate interest (in many ways other games - indirect competitors like LoL also contributed). Be reasonable with the criticism, Blizzard has alot to blame and is an easy target, but be rational about it.
It's about half match-fixing, half Blizzard lawsuits. So yeah, while Blizzard is not TOTALLY at fault, to say that it had no part in killing BW is just being naive.
Blizzard lawsuits were over profits against Kespa, how about this, what if Kespa had agreed to let blizzard have broadcasting profit margins, then blizzard supported the whole BW scene right there? Also besides, Blizzard was going to push the newer product regardless, I'm not defending it from a BW fan perspective, just saying that it was going to happen.
I knew it was going to happen anyway but that doesn't make me any less upset at Blizzard. Should it?
Well, it's fine to be upset, I'm upset too, want a hug?
Even if they pumped BW back with tournaments, doubt any of the current programers would risk or abandon their currently salary playing SC2. It would be too unstable for BW to be brought back imo
"Under these conditions, there is news that one company owner is questioning why BW leagues are being abolished. This CEO, who once met up with Kespa to discuss the founding of Team 8, has a tremendous love for BW. He has been hooked on BW since his school days. The company that he runs even has in-house PC Bangs to allow staff members to play games during their breaks. There is no SC2 installed on those PCs, only BW. Isn't this CEO's love for BW really immense?"
That statement got to me a bit. There is only BW installed on them. Well give someone only one choice it's more obvious what they'll play. I disagree with that course even if it is BW.
On July 12 2012 21:03 nadafanboy42 wrote: So what? Broodwar could've survived if it had debased itself to becoming the pet charity of some nostalgic multi-millionaire? Where was this guy when MBCGame was struggling to find a MSL sponsor? Where was he when eSTRO disbanded?
Honestly this shouldn't come as a surprise. There's a lot of sad and angry Broodwar fans amongst us poor people, it makes sense it's the same for rich Broodwar fans. But words are cheap. The suggestion of this article is that "Broodwar could survive if it wasn't switching to SC2", but I call bullshit on that. MBC didn't disband MBCGame because they hated SC2. I seriously doubt Wemade pulled their sponsorship because they didn't want to sponsor SC2 either. What I'm hearing from this article is that there's a passionate CEO who would've wanted to support Broodwar. What I'm not hearing is that there's a business-savy CEO who thinks sponsoring Broodwar is going to help his company. I don't think there's any question that if KeSPA wasn't 'forcing' the switch to SC2, Broodwar would've continued to muddle on. But it would've done so as a shadow of its former self.
I can understand that this guy wants to vent his frustration and anger at seeing something he loves end. But nostalgia and charity is not something to base an industry on. Imo it would be nothing short of selfish and irresponsible to ask progamers to throw away their youth on a scene dependant on the whims of a bunch of rich benefactors.
No other companies would have killed a product that they have been created for a life time that is supposed to last only 5 years at maximum to be still popular at large and still running competitions in a country . Blizzard and Co did it and I blame them too for the murder of broodwar thanks to them suing poor mbcgame who is already running on low funds and ogn . No one else is to be blame except blizzard for all of this .
Well, I mean they basically shifted support to SC2, they didn't actively kill BW, it died on its own due to alot of external events. Blizz didn't make MSL go away, blizz didn't make the match fixing scandal, blizz didn't divert away sponsors and corporate interest (in many ways other games - indirect competitors like LoL also contributed). Be reasonable with the criticism, Blizzard has alot to blame and is an easy target, but be rational about it.
It's about half match-fixing, half Blizzard lawsuits. So yeah, while Blizzard is not TOTALLY at fault, to say that it had no part in killing BW is just being naive.
Blizzard lawsuits were over profits against Kespa, how about this, what if Kespa had agreed to let blizzard have broadcasting profit margins, then blizzard supported the whole BW scene right there? Also besides, Blizzard was going to push the newer product regardless, I'm not defending it from a BW fan perspective, just saying that it was going to happen.
I knew it was going to happen anyway but that doesn't make me any less upset at Blizzard. Should it?
Well, it's fine to be upset, I'm upset too, want a hug?
On July 12 2012 20:11 Fleuria wrote: He's one of those people that say bullshit like this for fame, all for his own gain, if he had any real passion he would invested in the bw scene when it was dying and they made the decision to swap, if he sponsored the next 3 osls or something it wouldn't have died but jk all talk no game.
I wasn't going to respond since I'm coughing green stuff and all that crap but some of you need to reread the article. Perhaps it wasn't clear before but now I'm setting it straight. ABC-Talk is a section written by DES staff who hear about "insider" news/gossip that they can't give official details about.
In this case, the DES staff who wrote this article heard about CEO X from a Kespa insider. According to the author of the article anyway. So no, this isn't some kind of attempt at fame/PR by the CEO. -_-
It won't take a genius to figure out who the guy is... it already states he runs a highly successful lan cafe, won't take to long before the scene finds out who the guy is, this is the internet you know.
end of the day, if he wanted to save broodwar he would of done it when OSL was struggling for a sponsor and for other support.
More importantly, it says he has been a fan of BW "since his school days." Even if school means college, that's damn young for a CEO. Honestly, it's so young it makes me question the veracity of this entire article.
On July 12 2012 20:11 Fleuria wrote: He's one of those people that say bullshit like this for fame, all for his own gain, if he had any real passion he would invested in the bw scene when it was dying and they made the decision to swap, if he sponsored the next 3 osls or something it wouldn't have died but jk all talk no game.
I wasn't going to respond since I'm coughing green stuff and all that crap but some of you need to reread the article. Perhaps it wasn't clear before but now I'm setting it straight. ABC-Talk is a section written by DES staff who hear about "insider" news/gossip that they can't give official details about.
In this case, the DES staff who wrote this article heard about CEO X from a Kespa insider. According to the author of the article anyway. So no, this isn't some kind of attempt at fame/PR by the CEO. -_-
It won't take a genius to figure out who the guy is... it already states he runs a highly successful lan cafe, won't take to long before the scene finds out who the guy is, this is the internet you know.
end of the day, if he wanted to save broodwar he would of done it when OSL was struggling for a sponsor and for other support.
More importantly, it says he has been a fan of BW "since his school days." Even if school means college, that's damn young for a CEO. Honestly, it's so young it makes me question the veracity of this entire article.
On July 12 2012 20:11 Fleuria wrote: He's one of those people that say bullshit like this for fame, all for his own gain, if he had any real passion he would invested in the bw scene when it was dying and they made the decision to swap, if he sponsored the next 3 osls or something it wouldn't have died but jk all talk no game.
I wasn't going to respond since I'm coughing green stuff and all that crap but some of you need to reread the article. Perhaps it wasn't clear before but now I'm setting it straight. ABC-Talk is a section written by DES staff who hear about "insider" news/gossip that they can't give official details about.
In this case, the DES staff who wrote this article heard about CEO X from a Kespa insider. According to the author of the article anyway. So no, this isn't some kind of attempt at fame/PR by the CEO. -_-
It won't take a genius to figure out who the guy is... it already states he runs a highly successful lan cafe, won't take to long before the scene finds out who the guy is, this is the internet you know.
end of the day, if he wanted to save broodwar he would of done it when OSL was struggling for a sponsor and for other support.
More importantly, it says he has been a fan of BW "since his school days." Even if school means college, that's damn young for a CEO. Honestly, it's so young it makes me question the veracity of this entire article.
On July 12 2012 21:03 nadafanboy42 wrote: So what? Broodwar could've survived if it had debased itself to becoming the pet charity of some nostalgic multi-millionaire? Where was this guy when MBCGame was struggling to find a MSL sponsor? Where was he when eSTRO disbanded?
Honestly this shouldn't come as a surprise. There's a lot of sad and angry Broodwar fans amongst us poor people, it makes sense it's the same for rich Broodwar fans. But words are cheap. The suggestion of this article is that "Broodwar could survive if it wasn't switching to SC2", but I call bullshit on that. MBC didn't disband MBCGame because they hated SC2. I seriously doubt Wemade pulled their sponsorship because they didn't want to sponsor SC2 either. What I'm hearing from this article is that there's a passionate CEO who would've wanted to support Broodwar. What I'm not hearing is that there's a business-savy CEO who thinks sponsoring Broodwar is going to help his company. I don't think there's any question that if KeSPA wasn't 'forcing' the switch to SC2, Broodwar would've continued to muddle on. But it would've done so as a shadow of its former self.
I can understand that this guy wants to vent his frustration and anger at seeing something he loves end. But nostalgia and charity is not something to base an industry on. Imo it would be nothing short of selfish and irresponsible to ask progamers to throw away their youth on a scene dependant on the whims of a bunch of rich benefactors.
No other companies would have killed a product that they have been created for a life time that is supposed to last only 5 years at maximum to be still popular at large and still running competitions in a country . Blizzard and Co did it and I blame them too for the murder of broodwar thanks to them suing poor mbcgame who is already running on low funds and ogn . No one else is to be blame except blizzard for all of this .
Well, I mean they basically shifted support to SC2, they didn't actively kill BW, it died on its own due to alot of external events. Blizz didn't make MSL go away, blizz didn't make the match fixing scandal, blizz didn't divert away sponsors and corporate interest (in many ways other games - indirect competitors like LoL also contributed). Be reasonable with the criticism, Blizzard has alot to blame and is an easy target, but be rational about it.
It's about half match-fixing, half Blizzard lawsuits. So yeah, while Blizzard is not TOTALLY at fault, to say that it had no part in killing BW is just being naive.
Blizzard lawsuits were over profits against Kespa, how about this, what if Kespa had agreed to let blizzard have broadcasting profit margins, then blizzard supported the whole BW scene right there? Also besides, Blizzard was going to push the newer product regardless, I'm not defending it from a BW fan perspective, just saying that it was going to happen.
As I recall the complaint the broadcasting companies made was that they couldn't run based on Blizzard's demands. What else can you call that?
The tech company eqivilent would be Apple charging users with old iPhones huge fees out of nowhere if they stay on the old iPhone. No one really accounts for these unexpected costs... It is not really a choice if you can't afford to stay. Whatever was said precisely in those negotiations we won't know, but we got a pretty general idea that Blizzard was not making realisitic demands, they were killing a product.
I don't think we should forget these events so easily... It justifies them.
Most of the content for ABC Talk comes like, months or even a year or so after it has actually happened.
He was probably one of the companies that was looking into sponsor Team 8, but probably backed out since KeSPA seriously started considering SC2 since before 2010-2011 PL season and he had no interest in SC2
Why does everyone care what kespa thinks? didn't GOM starleague come out of nowhere The real dilemma is team sponsorship and if they will survive I am convinced BW will outlast SC2
I wonder how many other sponsors will go down this path, hopefully no more teams shutting down. It is true though that the domestic market, which the current sponsors really care about I assume, is much smaller for SC2 than BW no?
On July 12 2012 23:59 Taku wrote: I wonder how many other sponsors will go down this path, hopefully no more teams shutting down. It is true though that the domestic market, which the current sponsors really care about I assume, is much smaller for SC2 than BW no?
Not only is market for SC2 smaller still than BW, half of the team sponsors in BW have little to no incentive to market towards US/EU audiences, especially SK Telecom and KT.
I am looking forward to September to see which team decides to fold next.
On July 12 2012 23:59 Taku wrote: I wonder how many other sponsors will go down this path, hopefully no more teams shutting down. It is true though that the domestic market, which the current sponsors really care about I assume, is much smaller for SC2 than BW no?
Not only is market for SC2 smaller still than BW, half of the team sponsors in BW have little to no incentive to market towards US/EU audiences, especially SK Telecom and KT.
I am looking forward to September to see which team decides to fold next.
speculation is also pretty important whenever involving investments or sponsorship. It really depends whether BW pros can hold its own in sc2, then with proper marketing they should be able to ease a good portion of their fanbase into sc2.
And with heart of the swarm lurking so close, it'll probably attract attentions and investors again
On July 12 2012 23:59 Taku wrote: I wonder how many other sponsors will go down this path, hopefully no more teams shutting down. It is true though that the domestic market, which the current sponsors really care about I assume, is much smaller for SC2 than BW no?
Not only is market for SC2 smaller still than BW, half of the team sponsors in BW have little to no incentive to market towards US/EU audiences, especially SK Telecom and KT.
I am looking forward to September to see which team decides to fold next.
speculation is also pretty important whenever involving investments or sponsorship. It really depends whether BW pros can hold its own in sc2, then with proper marketing they should be able to ease a good portion of their fanbase into sc2.
And with heart of the swarm lurking so close, it'll probably attract attentions and investors again
It's pretty clear that the dual proleague has brought viewership down hard. They are losing fans at the moment, and it will be hard to regain them as the enthusiasm for the game isn't here, and the names can only keep people in, not really bring new viewers. They are also squandering their brand name. I don't think they'll ever get that many foreign viewers. Starcraft has been put out of the main hours on OGN. Starcraft in korea is only getting smaller now, and I won't be suprise to see retirements and sponsors backing up in a year's time, when the first real year of proleague is really down. I'm pessimist about the future of the industry, wait and see though.
I know it won't change anything, but reading this from SNM's blog :
Oh, by the way, if you ask me "how packed was the stadium" for semifinals match, it's nothing compared to GSL. And by nothing, I mean fully packed. So packed that people who couldn't enter were asked to leave due to safety concerns.
On July 12 2012 23:59 Taku wrote: I wonder how many other sponsors will go down this path, hopefully no more teams shutting down. It is true though that the domestic market, which the current sponsors really care about I assume, is much smaller for SC2 than BW no?
Not only is market for SC2 smaller still than BW, half of the team sponsors in BW have little to no incentive to market towards US/EU audiences, especially SK Telecom and KT.
I am looking forward to September to see which team decides to fold next.
But contrary to KT and SKT who target customers directly among the BW spectators, a company like STX whose main business is trading and ship maintenance has apparently no reason to invest into e-sports, yet they owned a team with one of the biggest budget of the circuit.
BW's potential biggest market is China, and for the last few years, SKT has been doing maneuvers to break into the Chinese market. SKT's IR website even has a Chinese version.
I am not saying that the sponsors would get a positive return on investment for sure, but you can't dismiss the possibility that easily.
On July 12 2012 21:03 nadafanboy42 wrote: So what? Broodwar could've survived if it had debased itself to becoming the pet charity of some nostalgic multi-millionaire? Where was this guy when MBCGame was struggling to find a MSL sponsor? Where was he when eSTRO disbanded?
Honestly this shouldn't come as a surprise. There's a lot of sad and angry Broodwar fans amongst us poor people, it makes sense it's the same for rich Broodwar fans. But words are cheap. The suggestion of this article is that "Broodwar could survive if it wasn't switching to SC2", but I call bullshit on that. MBC didn't disband MBCGame because they hated SC2. I seriously doubt Wemade pulled their sponsorship because they didn't want to sponsor SC2 either. What I'm hearing from this article is that there's a passionate CEO who would've wanted to support Broodwar. What I'm not hearing is that there's a business-savy CEO who thinks sponsoring Broodwar is going to help his company. I don't think there's any question that if KeSPA wasn't 'forcing' the switch to SC2, Broodwar would've continued to muddle on. But it would've done so as a shadow of its former self.
I can understand that this guy wants to vent his frustration and anger at seeing something he loves end. But nostalgia and charity is not something to base an industry on. Imo it would be nothing short of selfish and irresponsible to ask progamers to throw away their youth on a scene dependant on the whims of a bunch of rich benefactors.
No other companies would have killed a product that they have been created for a life time that is supposed to last only 5 years at maximum to be still popular at large and still running competitions in a country . Blizzard and Co did it and I blame them too for the murder of broodwar thanks to them suing poor mbcgame who is already running on low funds and ogn . No one else is to be blame except blizzard for all of this .
Well, I mean they basically shifted support to SC2, they didn't actively kill BW, it died on its own due to alot of external events. Blizz didn't make MSL go away, blizz didn't make the match fixing scandal, blizz didn't divert away sponsors and corporate interest (in many ways other games - indirect competitors like LoL also contributed). Be reasonable with the criticism, Blizzard has alot to blame and is an easy target, but be rational about it.
It's about half match-fixing, half Blizzard lawsuits. So yeah, while Blizzard is not TOTALLY at fault, to say that it had no part in killing BW is just being naive.
Blizzard lawsuits were over profits against Kespa, how about this, what if Kespa had agreed to let blizzard have broadcasting profit margins, then blizzard supported the whole BW scene right there? Also besides, Blizzard was going to push the newer product regardless, I'm not defending it from a BW fan perspective, just saying that it was going to happen.
As I recall the complaint the broadcasting companies made was that they couldn't run based on Blizzard's demands. What else can you call that?
The tech company eqivilent would be Apple charging users with old iPhones huge fees out of nowhere if they stay on the old iPhone. No one really accounts for these unexpected costs... It is not really a choice if you can't afford to stay. Whatever was said precisely in those negotiations we won't know, but we got a pretty general idea that Blizzard was not making realisitic demands, they were killing a product.
I don't think we should forget these events so easily... It justifies them.
Yes, because taking what one side of a conflict said and declaring it absolute truth is in no way intellectually dishonest! Honestly I don't see any point in these discussions as it's obvious that the only people still having them are trolls and delusional fanboys. Blizzard's side was that they wanted control over their intellectual properties, which anyone who pays any attention to the entertainment industries knows is one of the things most zealously guarded by any company (in part due to trademark law making it so companies can lose their rights if they fail to try to defend them). KeSPA's side was that Blizzard's demands were unreasonable. Noone knows what was in either side's heads. Personally I do not see how any Broodwar fan, having seen the incompetence and megalomania KeSPA is capable of, could not think they share at least some blame for things ending up the way they did.
You can go and blame Blizzard for everything. But how is Blizzard responsible for the plummeting ratings of OGN and MBC? + Show Spoiler +
OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee Someone got some hard numbers regarding TV ratings for OGN and MBC Game... it doesn't look good. (70th and 60th respectively).
OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee Basically: OGN has a sixth of the rating they had in 2007, MBC has a third of what they had in 2007.
Did Blizzard convince Savior to start match-fixing? Yes, Blizzard could have gone balls to the walls to save Broodwar and didn't. But why would they when KeSPA shutdown the GOM tournament Blizzard sponsored? + Show Spoiler +
And yes, KeSPA shut it down. Anybody who was a there in the community and actually paying attention should know very well that's what happened. Teams with minimum exposure like Sparkyz and Hero dropping out, while the team with the most over-worked superstar (Hwaseung) staying in till the end? Yeah, sure it was cuss 'players were overworked'.
People can have their little conspiracy theories, but in the end if the Broodwar scene had been a healthy growing industry no amount of legal strong-arming from Blizzard could've shut it down. Blizzard may have had a hand in convincing KeSPA to put down Broodwar, but they aren't the ones who got it sick to begin with. Imo Savior and K-Pop have done more to harm Broodwar then Blizzard ever did or could.
"Well, I mean they basically shifted support to SC2, they didn't actively kill BW, it died on its own due to alot of external events. Blizz didn't make MSL go away, blizz didn't make the match fixing scandal, blizz didn't divert away sponsors and corporate interest (in many ways other games - indirect competitors like LoL also contributed). Be reasonable with the criticism, Blizzard has alot to blame and is an easy target, but be rational about it."
I'm pretty sure blizzard did actively kill BW. You don't just waltz into korea 10 years after OGN and MBC built a small dynasty and ask for a cut. Legally you can do whatever you want with your product, but going into korea, literally the only place to actively play the game anymore, and demand a cut of something that isn't pulling in that much revenue/ running off of sponsorships. Actively killing BW, ya.
"It's about half match-fixing, half Blizzard lawsuits. So yeah, while Blizzard is not TOTALLY at fault, to say that it had no part in killing BW is just being naive."
match-fixing is an individual's choice. If I were some kind of savior fanboy who only watched his matches, then I could see how BW could have a smaller audience. But I don't know how many BW fans fit this description. <3 upmagic
"People can have their little conspiracy theories, but in the end if the Broodwar scene had been a healthy growing industry no amount of legal strong-arming from Blizzard could've shut it down. Blizzard may have had a hand in convincing KeSPA to put down Broodwar, but they aren't the ones who got it sick to begin with. Imo Savior and K-Pop have done more to harm Broodwar then Blizzard ever did or could."
I don't see how OGN or MBC could have been insanely profitable. They don't even charge admission for watching some events. Blizzard should have just stayed out of Korea tbh. And stop throwing around the word conspiracy, your lack of maturity is showing.
I believe that if this was 2006/2007, sometime before all the conflicts starting arising (matchfixing, Blizz ip rights), the CEO would invest in BW in a heartbeat. CEOs of top Korean companies and Kespa insiders probably had all the information revealed to them long ago about the inevitable SC2 switch, thus were hesitant on their sponsorships. He basically expresses that companies would sponsor BW if it was healthy and stable, but that obviously was not the case a year ago. If he sponsors team 8 and Kespa switches to SC2, he'd be fucked since he hates that game, thus he held back the money. In the end, it's all speculation with a lot of "what ifs", but it's still sad that BW had to end like this while people still had geniune love for the game.
On July 13 2012 01:58 Daozzt wrote: I believe that if this was 2006/2007, sometime before all the conflicts starting arising (matchfixing, Blizz ip rights), the CEO would invest in BW in a heartbeat. CEOs of top Korean companies and Kespa insiders probably had all the information revealed to them long ago about the inevitable SC2 switch, thus were hesitant on their sponsorships. He basically expresses that companies would sponsor BW if it was healthy and stable, but that obviously was not the case a year ago. If he sponsors team 8 and Kespa switches to SC2, he'd be fucked since he hates that game, thus he held back the money. In the end, it's all speculation with a lot of "what ifs", but it's still sad that BW had to end like this while people still had geniune love for the game.
then why didn't he sponsor the OSL? it was BW only....
On July 13 2012 01:58 Daozzt wrote: I believe that if this was 2006/2007, sometime before all the conflicts starting arising (matchfixing, Blizz ip rights), the CEO would invest in BW in a heartbeat. CEOs of top Korean companies and Kespa insiders probably had all the information revealed to them long ago about the inevitable SC2 switch, thus were hesitant on their sponsorships. He basically expresses that companies would sponsor BW if it was healthy and stable, but that obviously was not the case a year ago. If he sponsors team 8 and Kespa switches to SC2, he'd be fucked since he hates that game, thus he held back the money. In the end, it's all speculation with a lot of "what ifs", but it's still sad that BW had to end like this while people still had geniune love for the game.
then why didn't he sponsor the OSL? it was BW only....
that is what is confuzing to me...
Probably because he wanted to sponsor for the long term, but BW was going away within a year.
On July 13 2012 01:58 Daozzt wrote: I believe that if this was 2006/2007, sometime before all the conflicts starting arising (matchfixing, Blizz ip rights), the CEO would invest in BW in a heartbeat. CEOs of top Korean companies and Kespa insiders probably had all the information revealed to them long ago about the inevitable SC2 switch, thus were hesitant on their sponsorships. He basically expresses that companies would sponsor BW if it was healthy and stable, but that obviously was not the case a year ago. If he sponsors team 8 and Kespa switches to SC2, he'd be fucked since he hates that game, thus he held back the money. In the end, it's all speculation with a lot of "what ifs", but it's still sad that BW had to end like this while people still had geniune love for the game.
then why didn't he sponsor the OSL? it was BW only....
that is what is confuzing to me...
Probably because he wanted to sponsor for the long term, but BW was going away within a year.
still doesn't make sense to me.... if he loved BW so much... it shouldn't have mattered...
This CEO loved BW so much that he didn't lift a finger to try to save it? huh? If he didn't want BW to be replaced by SC2, couldn't he have marshaled every other like-minded individual to find a way to see if pro BW could still be viable for a little bit longer?
The only reason that Kespa is switching to SC2 is to attempt to survive a bit longer through the foreigner scene since the korean SC2 scene is pretty much DOA at this point from everything anecdotal thing we hear. If pro SC2 weren't this popular outside Korea, I could see kespa hanging onto bw until the bitter end but it makes more sense for them to see if they can survive in some form through Blizzard/foreigner support.
On July 13 2012 01:58 Daozzt wrote: I believe that if this was 2006/2007, sometime before all the conflicts starting arising (matchfixing, Blizz ip rights), the CEO would invest in BW in a heartbeat. CEOs of top Korean companies and Kespa insiders probably had all the information revealed to them long ago about the inevitable SC2 switch, thus were hesitant on their sponsorships. He basically expresses that companies would sponsor BW if it was healthy and stable, but that obviously was not the case a year ago. If he sponsors team 8 and Kespa switches to SC2, he'd be fucked since he hates that game, thus he held back the money. In the end, it's all speculation with a lot of "what ifs", but it's still sad that BW had to end like this while people still had geniune love for the game.
then why didn't he sponsor the OSL? it was BW only....
that is what is confuzing to me...
Probably because he wanted to sponsor for the long term, but BW was going away within a year.
still doesn't make sense to me.... if he loved BW so much... it shouldn't have mattered...
I think his hatred of SC2 outstrips his love for BW.
On July 13 2012 05:31 amazingoopah wrote: This CEO loved BW so much that he didn't lift a finger to try to save it? huh? If he didn't want BW to be replaced by SC2, couldn't he have marshaled every other like-minded individual to find a way to see if pro BW could still be viable for a little bit longer?
The only reason that Kespa is switching to SC2 is to attempt to survive a bit longer through the foreigner scene since the korean SC2 scene is pretty much DOA at this point from everything anecdotal thing we hear. If pro SC2 weren't this popular outside Korea, I could see kespa hanging onto bw until the bitter end but it makes more sense for them to see if they can survive in some form through Blizzard/foreigner support.
From what I see, it looks like Kespa was already set on its course to replace BW with SC2 by the time this CEO came to negotiate. If that couldn't have changed, there was no reason for him to sponsor a team only to see it play the game he doesn't like a year later.
On July 13 2012 01:58 Daozzt wrote: I believe that if this was 2006/2007, sometime before all the conflicts starting arising (matchfixing, Blizz ip rights), the CEO would invest in BW in a heartbeat. CEOs of top Korean companies and Kespa insiders probably had all the information revealed to them long ago about the inevitable SC2 switch, thus were hesitant on their sponsorships. He basically expresses that companies would sponsor BW if it was healthy and stable, but that obviously was not the case a year ago. If he sponsors team 8 and Kespa switches to SC2, he'd be fucked since he hates that game, thus he held back the money. In the end, it's all speculation with a lot of "what ifs", but it's still sad that BW had to end like this while people still had geniune love for the game.
then why didn't he sponsor the OSL? it was BW only....
that is what is confuzing to me...
Probably because he wanted to sponsor for the long term, but BW was going away within a year.
still doesn't make sense to me.... if he loved BW so much... it shouldn't have mattered...
I think his hatred of SC2 outstrips his love for BW.
On July 13 2012 01:58 Daozzt wrote: I believe that if this was 2006/2007, sometime before all the conflicts starting arising (matchfixing, Blizz ip rights), the CEO would invest in BW in a heartbeat. CEOs of top Korean companies and Kespa insiders probably had all the information revealed to them long ago about the inevitable SC2 switch, thus were hesitant on their sponsorships. He basically expresses that companies would sponsor BW if it was healthy and stable, but that obviously was not the case a year ago. If he sponsors team 8 and Kespa switches to SC2, he'd be fucked since he hates that game, thus he held back the money. In the end, it's all speculation with a lot of "what ifs", but it's still sad that BW had to end like this while people still had geniune love for the game.
then why didn't he sponsor the OSL? it was BW only....
that is what is confuzing to me...
Probably because he wanted to sponsor for the long term, but BW was going away within a year.
still doesn't make sense to me.... if he loved BW so much... it shouldn't have mattered...
I think his hatred of SC2 outstrips his love for BW.
then, in my book, he is an idiot...
When you take a look at how Proleague is doing right now, not so much.
On July 13 2012 01:58 Daozzt wrote: I believe that if this was 2006/2007, sometime before all the conflicts starting arising (matchfixing, Blizz ip rights), the CEO would invest in BW in a heartbeat. CEOs of top Korean companies and Kespa insiders probably had all the information revealed to them long ago about the inevitable SC2 switch, thus were hesitant on their sponsorships. He basically expresses that companies would sponsor BW if it was healthy and stable, but that obviously was not the case a year ago. If he sponsors team 8 and Kespa switches to SC2, he'd be fucked since he hates that game, thus he held back the money. In the end, it's all speculation with a lot of "what ifs", but it's still sad that BW had to end like this while people still had geniune love for the game.
then why didn't he sponsor the OSL? it was BW only....
that is what is confuzing to me...
Probably because he wanted to sponsor for the long term, but BW was going away within a year.
still doesn't make sense to me.... if he loved BW so much... it shouldn't have mattered...
I think his hatred of SC2 outstrips his love for BW.
then, in my book, he is an idiot...
Not trying to defend him but for me, since this PL started with the dual format, the quality of BW played has been downgraded significantly that I think the quality of this OSL to be affected as well with poor performance from most players in the group stage. Not only that it made me stop watching both PL and OSL since it's painful to watch such petty play from those once brilliant players but also made me think that even the players have already given up on BW, now doing it only for the sake of their job. The recent OSL semi that I luckily didn't miss is the only thing that brought me back to post here.
...and this is why you can't just be a perfect optimist and pretend that SC2 will magically become a beloved game as brood war. People in SK don't even play it because of the stupid pricing model, let alone love it.
From the 3rd round of Proleague onwards, BW will be completely replaced with SC2
Surprised few have picked up on this. This is recent matter, and it appears -- as this is supposed to come through KeSPA channels -- that a decision has been made regarding no more BW in SPL round 3.
The point is that even if OGN completely switches to broadcasting SC2, what really are their chances of achieving the same glory as their hey days with Brood War? StarCraft 2 markets is very saturated with MLG, DreamHack, IPL, GTSL, NASL, and of course GSL. Comparing to Brood War that only had MBC to compete with (excluded Gom since it was cancelled). Now OGN wouldn't receive nearly as much attention as they want with the game that in the end they are really going to get around the same viewership as Brood War because of the high competition.
Lets face it, Tasteless and Artosis are staying in Gom. The only way they are going to harness attentions from the foreign community is through the quality of their English casting. Unless they get Day[9] or 2GD as their ambassador, they will always be second rate relative to GSL. That leaves them the only option of digging into domestic market in which CEOs like this one won't sponsor and many fans wanting to continue the legacy of BW will be bitter enough to not tune in.
On July 13 2012 01:58 Daozzt wrote: I believe that if this was 2006/2007, sometime before all the conflicts starting arising (matchfixing, Blizz ip rights), the CEO would invest in BW in a heartbeat. CEOs of top Korean companies and Kespa insiders probably had all the information revealed to them long ago about the inevitable SC2 switch, thus were hesitant on their sponsorships. He basically expresses that companies would sponsor BW if it was healthy and stable, but that obviously was not the case a year ago. If he sponsors team 8 and Kespa switches to SC2, he'd be fucked since he hates that game, thus he held back the money. In the end, it's all speculation with a lot of "what ifs", but it's still sad that BW had to end like this while people still had geniune love for the game.
then why didn't he sponsor the OSL? it was BW only....
that is what is confuzing to me...
Probably because he wanted to sponsor for the long term, but BW was going away within a year.
still doesn't make sense to me.... if he loved BW so much... it shouldn't have mattered...
It's easy to talk about what he should have done, but in reality when millions of dollars are at stake it's probably not such a simple decision for him.
On July 13 2012 05:31 amazingoopah wrote: This CEO loved BW so much that he didn't lift a finger to try to save it? huh? If he didn't want BW to be replaced by SC2, couldn't he have marshaled every other like-minded individual to find a way to see if pro BW could still be viable for a little bit longer?
The only reason that Kespa is switching to SC2 is to attempt to survive a bit longer through the foreigner scene since the korean SC2 scene is pretty much DOA at this point from everything anecdotal thing we hear. If pro SC2 weren't this popular outside Korea, I could see kespa hanging onto bw until the bitter end but it makes more sense for them to see if they can survive in some form through Blizzard/foreigner support.
He sponsored Team 8 so a bunch of players wouldn't have to retire. So yeah, he lifted a finger to save it, to say the least.
On July 13 2012 06:37 Xiphos wrote: The point is that even if OGN completely switches to broadcasting SC2, what really are their chances of achieving the same glory as their hey days with Brood War? StarCraft 2 markets is very saturated with MLG, DreamHack, IPL, GTSL, NASL, and of course GSL. Comparing to Brood War that only had MBC to compete with (excluded Gom since it was cancelled). Now OGN wouldn't receive nearly as much attention as they want with the game that in the end they are really going to get around the same viewership as Brood War because of the high competition.
Lets face it, Tasteless and Artosis are staying in Gom. The only way they are going to harness attentions from the foreign community is through the quality of their English casting. Unless they get Day[9] or 2GD as their ambassador, they will always be second rate relative to GSL. That leaves them the only option of digging into domestic market in which CEOs like this one won't sponsor and many fans wanting to continue the legacy of BW will be bitter enough to not tune in.
I fear for the future of the organization.
Aren't they doing the lol game though (it probably has potential to be bigger than BW ever was for a year or two)? It probably isn't very smart to focus on one particular game too much anyways. Their SC2 project will be fine as well I'm sure - probably not gonna be as big as BW was on it's heyday, but it'll be fine.
On July 13 2012 06:37 Xiphos wrote: The point is that even if OGN completely switches to broadcasting SC2, what really are their chances of achieving the same glory as their hey days with Brood War? StarCraft 2 markets is very saturated with MLG, DreamHack, IPL, GTSL, NASL, and of course GSL. Comparing to Brood War that only had MBC to compete with (excluded Gom since it was cancelled). Now OGN wouldn't receive nearly as much attention as they want with the game that in the end they are really going to get around the same viewership as Brood War because of the high competition.
Lets face it, Tasteless and Artosis are staying in Gom. The only way they are going to harness attentions from the foreign community is through the quality of their English casting. Unless they get Day[9] or 2GD as their ambassador, they will always be second rate relative to GSL. That leaves them the only option of digging into domestic market in which CEOs like this one won't sponsor and many fans wanting to continue the legacy of BW will be bitter enough to not tune in.
I fear for the future of the organization.
Aren't they doing the lol game though (it probably has potential to be bigger than BW ever was for a year or two)? It probably isn't very smart to focus on one particular game too much anyways. Their SC2 project will be fine as well I'm sure - probably not gonna be as big as BW was on it's heyday, but it'll be fine.
Not sure that it will as GSL will eat away their domestic market and DreamHack and MLG will occupy the foreign scene.
OR the completely opposite might happen
GSL gets trumped by OGN because sponsors decides to invest into a longer standing organization in which the whole scene have to be under the jurisdiction of KesPa a la Brood War once again. With stronger backing organizations and stable atmosphere with superior training regime, it will be again converting competition for the foreign market.
I don't want to see either of the above happening.
I saw this and literally teared up, I really hope he will actually act on what he said and keep BW alive. I don't want to see the day when the Broodwar forum disappears completely -_-
On July 13 2012 05:31 amazingoopah wrote: This CEO loved BW so much that he didn't lift a finger to try to save it? huh? If he didn't want BW to be replaced by SC2, couldn't he have marshaled every other like-minded individual to find a way to see if pro BW could still be viable for a little bit longer?
The only reason that Kespa is switching to SC2 is to attempt to survive a bit longer through the foreigner scene since the korean SC2 scene is pretty much DOA at this point from everything anecdotal thing we hear. If pro SC2 weren't this popular outside Korea, I could see kespa hanging onto bw until the bitter end but it makes more sense for them to see if they can survive in some form through Blizzard/foreigner support.
He sponsored Team 8 so a bunch of players wouldn't have to retire. So yeah, he lifted a finger to save it, to say the least.
Hmmm, I thought the article said that he considered sponsoring it and was talking with KeSPA about it, yet I don't really see any mention of him actually ending up sponsoring anything.
On July 13 2012 05:31 amazingoopah wrote: This CEO loved BW so much that he didn't lift a finger to try to save it? huh? If he didn't want BW to be replaced by SC2, couldn't he have marshaled every other like-minded individual to find a way to see if pro BW could still be viable for a little bit longer?
The only reason that Kespa is switching to SC2 is to attempt to survive a bit longer through the foreigner scene since the korean SC2 scene is pretty much DOA at this point from everything anecdotal thing we hear. If pro SC2 weren't this popular outside Korea, I could see kespa hanging onto bw until the bitter end but it makes more sense for them to see if they can survive in some form through Blizzard/foreigner support.
He sponsored Team 8 so a bunch of players wouldn't have to retire. So yeah, he lifted a finger to save it, to say the least.
Hmmm, I thought the article said that he considered sponsoring it and was talking with KeSPA about it, yet I don't really see any mention of him actually ending up sponsoring anything.
He was considering... until SC2 came into the picture. Then he withdrew his consideration.
On July 13 2012 05:31 amazingoopah wrote: This CEO loved BW so much that he didn't lift a finger to try to save it? huh? If he didn't want BW to be replaced by SC2, couldn't he have marshaled every other like-minded individual to find a way to see if pro BW could still be viable for a little bit longer?
The only reason that Kespa is switching to SC2 is to attempt to survive a bit longer through the foreigner scene since the korean SC2 scene is pretty much DOA at this point from everything anecdotal thing we hear. If pro SC2 weren't this popular outside Korea, I could see kespa hanging onto bw until the bitter end but it makes more sense for them to see if they can survive in some form through Blizzard/foreigner support.
He sponsored Team 8 so a bunch of players wouldn't have to retire. So yeah, he lifted a finger to save it, to say the least.
Hmmm, I thought the article said that he considered sponsoring it and was talking with KeSPA about it, yet I don't really see any mention of him actually ending up sponsoring anything.
He was considering... until SC2 came into the picture. Then he withdrew his consideration.
You and others really need to stop talking about things you don't know as if they're facts. Unless someone here has an insider information, all this guessing of what really happened is pretty pointless.
On July 13 2012 05:31 amazingoopah wrote: This CEO loved BW so much that he didn't lift a finger to try to save it? huh? If he didn't want BW to be replaced by SC2, couldn't he have marshaled every other like-minded individual to find a way to see if pro BW could still be viable for a little bit longer?
The only reason that Kespa is switching to SC2 is to attempt to survive a bit longer through the foreigner scene since the korean SC2 scene is pretty much DOA at this point from everything anecdotal thing we hear. If pro SC2 weren't this popular outside Korea, I could see kespa hanging onto bw until the bitter end but it makes more sense for them to see if they can survive in some form through Blizzard/foreigner support.
He sponsored Team 8 so a bunch of players wouldn't have to retire. So yeah, he lifted a finger to save it, to say the least.
Hmmm, I thought the article said that he considered sponsoring it and was talking with KeSPA about it, yet I don't really see any mention of him actually ending up sponsoring anything.
He was considering... until SC2 came into the picture. Then he withdrew his consideration.
You and others really need to stop talking about things you don't know as if they're facts. Unless someone here has an insider information, all this guessing of what really happened is pretty pointless.
Either OSL will crowd out the other competitions or it will fail to have enoufh influence to break into the market so late. I believe the latter will be the case.
On July 13 2012 09:10 Lightwip wrote: Either OSL will crowd out the other competitions or it will fail to have enoufh influence to break into the market so late. I believe the latter will be the case.
You forgot about the third and most likely outcome: the OSL will coexist with the dozens of seasonal GSLs, MLGs, DHs, ISs, IPL, and those other ones I can't remember quite off the top of my head. However, the OSL will probably never be the most prized SC tournament, thus it will really have no meaning as it did in BW as THE Starleague. But it will go on as long as there's money to be made for OGN, sponsors, and players.
I still hold the belief that there is an SC2 bubble, but Blizzard planned this out and will stretch the scene to its limits with its constant patching and 2 upcoming expansions.
SC2 is pretty much held together by fickle investors who will run away in a moment's notice if better promotional opportunities arise. Teams come and go with no hope for long-term sponsorship. The only shame is that pro BW isn't going to be coming back when the OSL fails to gain enough support.
To those who say, "Why didn't he invest when bw was dying?"
I think that he did not believe that bw was dying, and when the official announcement of the sc2 switch, he panicked. Because he only believed it then.
You guys are forgetting HotS is coming. Regardless of how far behind the BW elites are, I believe when HotS release, that will give them more of a chance to come back.
OSL is still OSL. Most everyone in Korea that knows Starcraft, will know OSL. It is the people outside of Korea that is the issue really, always sort of have been like that. We all know OSL here, but who else that doesn't watch Starcraft in general?
Whoever this person is, he should have done something and not sat there I think. Now it is too late for that, BW will probably be gone after Proleague and this OSL, which is...terrible.
On July 13 2012 11:39 Seraphic wrote: You guys are forgetting HotS is coming. Regardless of how far behind the BW elites are, I believe when HotS release, that will give them more of a chance to come back.
OSL is still OSL. Most everyone in Korea that knows Starcraft, will know OSL. It is the people outside of Korea that is the issue really, always sort of have been like that. We all know OSL here, but who else that doesn't watch Starcraft in general?
Whoever this person is, he should have done something and not sat there I think. Now it is too late for that, BW will probably be gone after Proleague and this OSL, which is...terrible.
I'd be surprised if HotS made the same impact as BroodWar did to the original SC tbh.
I appreciate the passionate stance, but I wish the statement included or is followed by more proactive actions. I too wish competitive BW could live forever, but maybe he could have cried out for community support earlier or maybe try to pump some money in a risky attempt to revive interest in the old classic. Otherwise the article just makes me feel sad with a tiny fraction of most likely false hope
On July 12 2012 21:03 nadafanboy42 wrote: So what? Broodwar could've survived if it had debased itself to becoming the pet charity of some nostalgic multi-millionaire? Where was this guy when MBCGame was struggling to find a MSL sponsor? Where was he when eSTRO disbanded?
Honestly this shouldn't come as a surprise. There's a lot of sad and angry Broodwar fans amongst us poor people, it makes sense it's the same for rich Broodwar fans. But words are cheap. The suggestion of this article is that "Broodwar could survive if it wasn't switching to SC2", but I call bullshit on that. MBC didn't disband MBCGame because they hated SC2. I seriously doubt Wemade pulled their sponsorship because they didn't want to sponsor SC2 either. What I'm hearing from this article is that there's a passionate CEO who would've wanted to support Broodwar. What I'm not hearing is that there's a business-savy CEO who thinks sponsoring Broodwar is going to help his company. I don't think there's any question that if KeSPA wasn't 'forcing' the switch to SC2, Broodwar would've continued to muddle on. But it would've done so as a shadow of its former self.
I can understand that this guy wants to vent his frustration and anger at seeing something he loves end. But nostalgia and charity is not something to base an industry on. Imo it would be nothing short of selfish and irresponsible to ask progamers to throw away their youth on a scene dependant on the whims of a bunch of rich benefactors.
Good post.
I understand that BW fans are upset about the game losing support and 'pro' status; I'm one of them. But the business of BW has been on a steady decline for some time. If anything, this guy's empty words are more enraging than anything else because he didn't put his money where his mouth is when the business side of things began to decline.
Hmm, what are the chances of another broodwar league forming? Would it be banned by Blizzard?
I mean, BW seems so much more popular in Korea even when OnGameNet is switching completely to SC2, my cousins tell me practically nobody cares about it and LoL, MMORPGs and BW are at the top still.
Apparently good reading comprehension has become a rarer trait to find on TL posters. Also, the majority of the posters criticizing this man registered after 2010 (yes, I bothered to check), and ignore much of the shit-storm that began around 2007-2008 with the match-fixing scandal, copyright problems, and blizzard's agenda to rise the cost of running a BW league and push SC2 ahead openly.
There were a lot of factors that could have impacted the investor's decision; whether this is true or not isn't even certain. But assuming that it is, there's a lot that one has to consider about the status of BW at the time and the hype Blizzard created for SC2.
Then again one should take into account Waxangel's post. I don't want to bother dwelling any longer on this issue. The transition has already occurred and whether this was for good or bad only time will tell. After having played SC2, I can say with certainty that there's enough about the game that I don't like for me to not be interested in buying HoTS or whatever the 3rd sequel may be. I'm just glad that someone's showing some love for BW even if this is a made up report from DeS.
We all know that there are a lot of SC1 players and fans don't like the transition into SC2 in Korean SPL and OSL. There are many reasons, subjective or objective. But the most fundamental and ultimate reason is that SC2 is not a game that the majority of SC1 fans approves and appreciates. SC2 is considered as just a "different game", rather than a real sequel that possess an improved experience for both players and spectators, for strategies and tactics, and for competition and esports.
Even in the Alpha phase of SC2 many SC1 fans with dense experiences of StarCraft pro scene have given constructive criticisms and suggestions about how to make a better sequel, Blizzard still insists on many of the fundamental design flaws that later are proved to be deal-breaker to the whole gameplay and esports experiences. Two most criticized problem is the deathball and lack of micro-able units and maybe the reluctant to bring back SC1 units.
These problems were pointed out in 2009 way before the game is finalized but Blizzard just ignored them. The funniest thing is that these problems have been continuously brought up even until today. But Dustin Browder's famous response is: "if you want BW, just go play BW. It's still a great game". This is arrogance to some extent. And this arrogance later bites in the !@#. Diablo 3 is the best example of this. Their ignorance of the fan base's opinion pays them back with one of the most criticized game (Diablo 3) in history.
On July 13 2012 16:06 larse wrote: OK. I will make a nasty point here.
We all know that there are a lot of SC1 players and fans don't like the transition into SC2 in Korean SPL and OSL. There are many reasons, subjective or objective. But the most fundamental and ultimate reason is that SC2 is not a game that the majority of SC1 fans approves and appreciates. SC2 is considered as just a "different game", rather than a real sequel that possess an improved experience for both players and spectators, for strategies and tactics, and for competition and esports.
Even in the Alpha phase of SC2 many SC1 fans with dense experiences of StarCraft pro scene have given constructive criticisms and suggestions about how to make a better sequel, Blizzard still insists on many of the fundamental design flaws that later are proved to be deal-breaker to the whole gameplay and esports experiences. Two most criticized problem is the deathball and lack of micro-able units and maybe the reluctant to bring back SC1 units.
These problems were pointed out in 2009 way before the game is finalized but Blizzard just ignored them. The funniest thing is that these problems have been continuously brought up even until today. But Dustin Browder's famous response is: "if you want BW, just go play BW. It's still a great game". This is arrogance to some extent. And this arrogance later bites in the !@#. Diablo 3 is the best example of this. Their ignorance of the fan base's opinion pays them back with one of the most criticized game (Diablo 3) in history.
Both of those problems are being addressed in HotS. Units like the Viper, which can take enemy units, and the widow mine, which forces a player to break up a deathball, are steps in the right direction. As for more micro-able units, there's the addition of the oracle, viper, and other units I can't remember. Also, even after HotS, there's still Legacy of the Void sometime in 2013/4, so the potential for new units to address the problems is very likely. It would also do wonders to have a kickass plot like BW did, and not a non-cliché storyline like WoL did.
On July 13 2012 16:06 larse wrote: OK. I will make a nasty point here.
We all know that there are a lot of SC1 players and fans don't like the transition into SC2 in Korean SPL and OSL. There are many reasons, subjective or objective. But the most fundamental and ultimate reason is that SC2 is not a game that the majority of SC1 fans approves and appreciates. SC2 is considered as just a "different game", rather than a real sequel that possess an improved experience for both players and spectators, for strategies and tactics, and for competition and esports.
What majority of SC1 fans? The foreign SC1 community has by and large switched to SC2. In the Korean community fans have been dropping Broodwar for years now, and we can't know for sure how many of those still left will accept SC2 until at least a season after KeSPA and OGN have fully switched over. I will agree that the majority of SC1 fans prefer Broodwar over SC2, but don't extend that into "everyone hates SC2's guts just like me". SC2 is a different game, but it is also a similar game. To some people the things that are different will be most important, to others the things that are similar will be most important.
Even in the Alpha phase of SC2 many SC1 fans with dense experiences of StarCraft pro scene have given constructive criticisms and suggestions about how to make a better sequel, Blizzard still insists on many of the fundamental design flaws that later are proved to be deal-breaker to the whole gameplay and esports experiences.
Blizzard listened and implemented many of the suggestions of the community. The macro-mechanics like larva inject and chronoboost were added only because Blizzard listened to the fan complaints that MBS hurt the potential skill differentiation.
Two most criticized problem is the deathball and lack of micro-able units
Both of these are problems Blizzard has acknowledged and are actively trying to fix in HotS.
and maybe the reluctant to bring back SC1 units.
The Viper is pretty much a flying defiler (consume+blinding cloud). Hydra have gotten their speed upgrade back. Oracle is half an arbiter. Blizzard isn't bringing back SC1 units because it would be bullshit to copy-paste old units into a completely new game and think that'll work. But the new units show Blizzard is more then happy to take inspiration from the old Broodwar units and bring back their spells and abilities in new forms that actually work in a new game.
These problems were pointed out in 2009 way before the game is finalized but Blizzard just ignored them.
No, Blizzard did not ignore them. Blizzard had to balance these problems against modern market demands. Just because the die-hard Broodwar fans consider it the perfect game, doesn't change that 99.999% of gamers, the people who are actually buying the game and thus funding its development, hate games like Broodwar with their out-dated graphics and completely non-user friendly UI. Had you actually bothered to read the Starcraft II reviews in mainstream gaming media, you would find the primary complaint was how conservative SC2 was, how much Blizzard had refused to update the game and kept in many mechanics and principles from Broodwar that were considered dated by modern RTS standards. Blizzard only did this because they were listening to the Broodwar fans and pros, and trying to address their concerns as much as they could while still making a game that would actually sell copies in today's gaming market.
The funniest thing is that these problems have been continuously brought up even until today. But Dustin Browder's famous response is: "if you want BW, just go play BW. It's still a great game". This is arrogance to some extent. And this arrogance later bites in the !@#. Diablo 3 is the best example of this. Their ignorance of the fan base's opinion pays them back with one of the most criticized game (Diablo 3) in history.
So now it's arrogance to acknowledge Broodwar is a great game? I'm pretty sure Dustin Browder could spin gold and you'd call it bat poop. What Browder is responding to is the constant demand that SC2 should be exactly like Broodwar. It is not, it is not supposed to be. Starcraft 2 is a new game that takes elements from Broodwar, keeps some, removes some, changes others and adds its own new things on top of it. All Browder is saying is that if you want a game exactly like Broodwar, go play Broodwar! No shit Sherlock! If you want a game like Broodwar, but more up-to-date to modern RTS standards and with new elements added to it, maybe Starcraft 2 is for you. Or maybe not, but don't hold it to bullshit standards. Regarding Diablo 3 all I've got to say is: http://www.ingame.msnbc.msn.com/technology/ingame/diablo-3-sales-set-record-despite-launch-issues-790219 I've increasingly noticed in the gaming community the appearance of the 'hardcore narrative'. Which is that the (often buthurt) 'hardcore' community creates their own narrative about the succes or failure of a game company, completely ignoring that the industry has long since passed them by. Gaming is not about catering to elite groups of diehard fans. It's a mass-market entertainment industry. If the 'hardcore' crowd hates a game, it doesn't mean jack if the actual customers are still buying it. The same is with Starcraft II eSports. The delusional Broodwar fans keep shitting on SC2, but you know what? There are hundreds of thousands of foreign fans who love watching SC2. SC2 is single-handedly responsible for the revival and unprecedented growth of the international eSports scene over the past years. The only factually correct complaint is that SC2 has failed in Korea. But quite frankly, if Broodwar with the full weight of KeSPA, OGN, and 10 years of history behind it couldn't hang on to its fans. How in the world could you expect a new game, directly competing with it, to come close to its success? We don't know how things are going to pan out from here. Maybe with KeSPA and OGN behind it, HotS will succeed where WoL failed. Maybe it won't and LoL will become the main Korean eSport. Or maybe neither will and in a few years OGN will go the way of MBC, and all that'll be left will be a GOMTV primarily supported by foreigner money. Either way it's a matter of wait, see, pray, and doing our best to support the things we love.
this all needs some realism to it, and what i say will anger some people regardless of if i want that or not.
i have not seen more than one credible campaign to help bring back the BW leagues you know and love. (much love for kona's "One last push") frankly, a lot of us (foreigners) aren't physically there to observe the games and the culture. the players' efforts, personalities and storylines are all enjoyed through translated words and people who were actually there... or the scope and lenses of a camera---this is all regardless of how real it feels and seems. unfortunately, the game saw a very real end (the same way a lot of professional leagues do), and the main hubs for BW competition is stopping support for now. i know some people who are so selfish that even if they had a sport of art as important as BW [is to some people] to them, they would still not give all that they could to help it flourish. i can't help but feel that this is part of what it came down to. a lack of selflessness over the years, and needing to have a [physical] hand in the community.
are you really going to stop your support for starcraft-related esports with that? i could see myself doing that, but i'm not that changed of a person yet. i'm geniunely excited with how much star2 has now because to me, it has that potential of furthering the depth and richness of people who play it. i see people ALL OVER THE WORLD going to events in person and doing what i see every event-goer do when they see their idol on stage.... and,, you say that you're not intersted in it--or more precisely the game that's being played.
that's FINE.. i hope you grow happy with something else in your life sooner rather than later... i'm happy with what's available right this moment though. jaedong flash and bw legends in star2? fuuuuuuuuucking unreal hype.
On July 13 2012 17:55 nanaoei wrote: this all needs some realism to it, and what i say will anger some people regardless of if i want that or not.
i have not seen more than one credible campaign to help bring back the BW leagues you know and love. (much love for kona's "One last push") frankly, a lot of us (foreigners) aren't physically there to observe the games and the culture. the players' efforts, personalities and storylines are all enjoyed through translated words and people who were actually there... or the scope and lenses of a camera---this is all regardless of how real it feels and seems. unfortunately, the game saw a very real end (the same way a lot of professional leagues do), and the main hubs for BW competition is stopping support for now. i know some people who are so selfish that even if they had a sport of art as important as BW [is to some people] to them, they would still not give all that they could to help it flourish. i can't help but feel that this is part of what it came down to. a lack of selflessness over the years, and needing to have a [physical] hand in the community.
are you really going to stop your support for starcraft-related esports with that? i could see myself doing that, but i'm not that changed of a person yet. i'm geniunely excited with how much star2 has now because to me, it has that potential of furthering the depth and richness of people who play it. i see people ALL OVER THE WORLD going to events in person and doing what i see every event-goer do when they see their idol on stage.... and,, you say that you're not intersted in it--or more precisely the game that's being played.
that's FINE.. i hope you grow happy with something else in your life sooner rather than later... i'm happy with what's available right this moment though. jaedong flash and bw legends in star2? fuuuuuuuuucking unreal hype.
Yeah thanks for the newsflash, a whole post which begun by saying that we don't try to actually help (first count of bullshit), continued to accuse selfishness, and went on to bring the tired, maddening cliche about how lovely it'll be to see the players, whatever they're playing (second count of bullshit, for almost all here).
To cap it all off you throw in the most exhausted troll favourite of insensitive kids everywhere- "jaedong flash and bw legends in star2? fuuuuuuuuucking unreal hype". Why should we share your peculiar opinions, and pretend they're all based around noble selflessness in some obscure way? Get off your high horse, you're not better than any of us.
On July 12 2012 21:03 nadafanboy42 wrote: So what? Broodwar could've survived if it had debased itself to becoming the pet charity of some nostalgic multi-millionaire? Where was this guy when MBCGame was struggling to find a MSL sponsor? Where was he when eSTRO disbanded?
Honestly this shouldn't come as a surprise. There's a lot of sad and angry Broodwar fans amongst us poor people, it makes sense it's the same for rich Broodwar fans. But words are cheap. The suggestion of this article is that "Broodwar could survive if it wasn't switching to SC2", but I call bullshit on that. MBC didn't disband MBCGame because they hated SC2. I seriously doubt Wemade pulled their sponsorship because they didn't want to sponsor SC2 either. What I'm hearing from this article is that there's a passionate CEO who would've wanted to support Broodwar. What I'm not hearing is that there's a business-savy CEO who thinks sponsoring Broodwar is going to help his company. I don't think there's any question that if KeSPA wasn't 'forcing' the switch to SC2, Broodwar would've continued to muddle on. But it would've done so as a shadow of its former self.
I can understand that this guy wants to vent his frustration and anger at seeing something he loves end. But nostalgia and charity is not something to base an industry on. Imo it would be nothing short of selfish and irresponsible to ask progamers to throw away their youth on a scene dependant on the whims of a bunch of rich benefactors.
No other companies would have killed a product that they have been created for a life time that is supposed to last only 5 years at maximum to be still popular at large and still running competitions in a country . Blizzard and Co did it and I blame them too for the murder of broodwar thanks to them suing poor mbcgame who is already running on low funds and ogn . No one else is to be blame except blizzard for all of this .
Well, I mean they basically shifted support to SC2, they didn't actively kill BW, it died on its own due to alot of external events. Blizz didn't make MSL go away, blizz didn't make the match fixing scandal, blizz didn't divert away sponsors and corporate interest (in many ways other games - indirect competitors like LoL also contributed). Be reasonable with the criticism, Blizzard has alot to blame and is an easy target, but be rational about it.
It's about half match-fixing, half Blizzard lawsuits. So yeah, while Blizzard is not TOTALLY at fault, to say that it had no part in killing BW is just being naive.
Blizzard lawsuits were over profits against Kespa, how about this, what if Kespa had agreed to let blizzard have broadcasting profit margins, then blizzard supported the whole BW scene right there? Also besides, Blizzard was going to push the newer product regardless, I'm not defending it from a BW fan perspective, just saying that it was going to happen.
Get your facts straight, for fuck's sake. KeSPA agreed to pay blizzard from the very beginning. blizzard wanted way more than that - full rights to all of the content (StarCraft related) produced by OGN/MBC, final say in scheduling (which meant ProLeague out of the primetime and SC2 being broadcast), contracts with KeSPA players overriding KeSPA contracts, and so on.
That's why their "negotiations" fell through (blizzard did not even bother to show up to most of them according to KeSPA officials).
I wonder will we get such statements by other sponsors if they get the balls to say such things. I dont see a reason if companies really are interested in sponsoring bw to not do it, however if that is true than it can be only Blizzard forcing Kespa to switch to sc2. Unfortunatelly this is just assumption from unacquainted fan of bw.
On July 19 2012 10:53 AsymptoticClimax wrote: Just sounds like this CEO is bitter about BW fading out and just talking smack out of despite. mmhh, now where have I seen that before?
Sounds like someone hasn't read the thread. mmhh, now where have I seen that before?
On July 19 2012 10:53 AsymptoticClimax wrote: Just sounds like this CEO is bitter about BW fading out and just talking smack out of despite. mmhh, now where have I seen that before?
Sounds like someone hasn't read the thread. mmhh, now where have I seen that before?
10 minute breaks will do that to ya, i'll read it when I get home..
On July 19 2012 10:53 AsymptoticClimax wrote: Just sounds like this CEO is bitter about BW fading out and just talking smack out of despite. mmhh, now where have I seen that before?
Sounds like someone hasn't read the thread. mmhh, now where have I seen that before?
10 minute breaks will do that to ya, i'll read it when I get home..
On July 19 2012 10:53 AsymptoticClimax wrote: Just sounds like this CEO is bitter about BW fading out and just talking smack out of despite. mmhh, now where have I seen that before?
Sounds like someone hasn't read the thread. mmhh, now where have I seen that before?
10 minute breaks will do that to ya, i'll read it when I get home..
EPT
huh? If he didn't want BW to be replaced by SC2, couldn't he have marshaled every other like-minded individual to find a way to see if pro BW could still be viable for a little bit longer? 
