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On May 11 2012 19:37 Elroi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 11:42 densha wrote:On May 11 2012 09:52 Maldais wrote:On May 11 2012 09:21 b0lt wrote:On May 11 2012 08:09 Maldais wrote:
There's a lot of hate on SC2 in this thread, some of the replies seem to show that people saw some sc2 in beta, didn't like it, and are still judging the game based on that. It's not deathball vs deathball anymore
Watch some GSL Code S You mean like the MVP vs parting code S semifinal set 4? Yes, because BW never has cheesy sets. Parting has been playing very greedy, which has allowed P to have very strong late games. MVP punished him for that, it's the metagame evolving, the very thing that has always made starcraft an amazing dynamic game. This comment is perfectly representative of what I see a lot of, trying to judge the entire game/community by a very small sample size. If a SC2 fan who had never watched BW before decided to give it a chance, saw two mediocre sets, and judged BW to be a terrible game based on that, what would you say? That is what you're doing to SC2. This is kind of funny because that sort of happened to me. Although I watch BW when it's on (and I subscribe to certain Youtube channels catering to BW), I have to say my experience has culminated in the thought that "hmm, this is a lot like SC2!". Some of the first full matches I saw were of players that I never heard of (i.e. they weren't Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Bisu, etc). One set I distinctly remember one player walking into siege tank fire needlessly and that immediately broke the aura that I had envisioned around BW. What I really do appreciate is the deep history and meta-game development that BW has. When looking at it that way, BW is so wonderful, but each individual game doesn't seem to have any more chance of being one of those "godly" type games than an SC2 game does. Both games have short cheesy games, both games have timing attacks (and players that build their careers off of them), both have macro games, both have those one-in-a-million EPIC games. I can certainly understand how 'being there' through the history and development of BW must play a huge role in what so many are feeling now, but I really think the similarities of the games far outweigh their differences, at least from a spectator's point of view. I don't want to sound rude, I am just honestly wondering this. Can you point out any games in sc2 that can match the excitement, the quality of game play and the incredible display of skill of, say, these two recent BW games: + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNrlTHtF0BY I understand that this is extremely subjective. But I am sincerely wondering because I have been watching some SC2 tornaments (especially when Stephano is playing because he looks very talented) and I haven't seen any games that are even close to being this good. This can be because the game just doesn't suit my subejctive preferenses or it could be that I just haven't been lucky when watching SC2.
Check out MMA vs. DRG in Blizzard Cup...probably universally considered the most intense SC2 series thus far. Obviously you can't compare it to Proleague in terms of stakes and history between SKT and KT, but trust me, that series was very spectator friendly. Not sure if you need a GSL pass though
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Say what!!? I know it's May atm, not April. Mixing both in a best of 7, with ace being SCII, equal me not liking it. I do enjoy watching SC and SCII, separately. But I will watch this train wreck to see if there're survivors, of course.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50530 Posts
Q: Will you have separate casters for SC1 and 2?
A: The casters will be the same, but we will try new combinations. We will make an announcement on the 15th. Btw, we're using the same four casters.
isn't Nal_Ra coming out of the army soon?
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On May 11 2012 23:19 kakaman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 19:37 Elroi wrote:On May 11 2012 11:42 densha wrote:On May 11 2012 09:52 Maldais wrote:On May 11 2012 09:21 b0lt wrote:On May 11 2012 08:09 Maldais wrote:
There's a lot of hate on SC2 in this thread, some of the replies seem to show that people saw some sc2 in beta, didn't like it, and are still judging the game based on that. It's not deathball vs deathball anymore
Watch some GSL Code S You mean like the MVP vs parting code S semifinal set 4? Yes, because BW never has cheesy sets. Parting has been playing very greedy, which has allowed P to have very strong late games. MVP punished him for that, it's the metagame evolving, the very thing that has always made starcraft an amazing dynamic game. This comment is perfectly representative of what I see a lot of, trying to judge the entire game/community by a very small sample size. If a SC2 fan who had never watched BW before decided to give it a chance, saw two mediocre sets, and judged BW to be a terrible game based on that, what would you say? That is what you're doing to SC2. This is kind of funny because that sort of happened to me. Although I watch BW when it's on (and I subscribe to certain Youtube channels catering to BW), I have to say my experience has culminated in the thought that "hmm, this is a lot like SC2!". Some of the first full matches I saw were of players that I never heard of (i.e. they weren't Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Bisu, etc). One set I distinctly remember one player walking into siege tank fire needlessly and that immediately broke the aura that I had envisioned around BW. What I really do appreciate is the deep history and meta-game development that BW has. When looking at it that way, BW is so wonderful, but each individual game doesn't seem to have any more chance of being one of those "godly" type games than an SC2 game does. Both games have short cheesy games, both games have timing attacks (and players that build their careers off of them), both have macro games, both have those one-in-a-million EPIC games. I can certainly understand how 'being there' through the history and development of BW must play a huge role in what so many are feeling now, but I really think the similarities of the games far outweigh their differences, at least from a spectator's point of view. I don't want to sound rude, I am just honestly wondering this. Can you point out any games in sc2 that can match the excitement, the quality of game play and the incredible display of skill of, say, these two recent BW games: + Show Spoiler +I understand that this is extremely subjective. But I am sincerely wondering because I have been watching some SC2 tornaments (especially when Stephano is playing because he looks very talented) and I haven't seen any games that are even close to being this good. This can be because the game just doesn't suit my subejctive preferenses or it could be that I just haven't been lucky when watching SC2. Check out MMA vs. DRG in Blizzard Cup...probably universally considered the most intense SC2 series thus far. Obviously you can't compare it to Proleague in terms of stakes and history between SKT and KT, but trust me, that series was very spectator friendly. Not sure if you need a GSL pass though
I actually watched the series an it was very intense...for a starcraft 2 match. Sorry, I watch both games a lot and the difference in intensity and overall action and level of gameplay is huge.
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On May 12 2012 00:18 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 23:19 kakaman wrote:On May 11 2012 19:37 Elroi wrote:On May 11 2012 11:42 densha wrote:On May 11 2012 09:52 Maldais wrote:On May 11 2012 09:21 b0lt wrote:On May 11 2012 08:09 Maldais wrote:
There's a lot of hate on SC2 in this thread, some of the replies seem to show that people saw some sc2 in beta, didn't like it, and are still judging the game based on that. It's not deathball vs deathball anymore
Watch some GSL Code S You mean like the MVP vs parting code S semifinal set 4? Yes, because BW never has cheesy sets. Parting has been playing very greedy, which has allowed P to have very strong late games. MVP punished him for that, it's the metagame evolving, the very thing that has always made starcraft an amazing dynamic game. This comment is perfectly representative of what I see a lot of, trying to judge the entire game/community by a very small sample size. If a SC2 fan who had never watched BW before decided to give it a chance, saw two mediocre sets, and judged BW to be a terrible game based on that, what would you say? That is what you're doing to SC2. This is kind of funny because that sort of happened to me. Although I watch BW when it's on (and I subscribe to certain Youtube channels catering to BW), I have to say my experience has culminated in the thought that "hmm, this is a lot like SC2!". Some of the first full matches I saw were of players that I never heard of (i.e. they weren't Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Bisu, etc). One set I distinctly remember one player walking into siege tank fire needlessly and that immediately broke the aura that I had envisioned around BW. What I really do appreciate is the deep history and meta-game development that BW has. When looking at it that way, BW is so wonderful, but each individual game doesn't seem to have any more chance of being one of those "godly" type games than an SC2 game does. Both games have short cheesy games, both games have timing attacks (and players that build their careers off of them), both have macro games, both have those one-in-a-million EPIC games. I can certainly understand how 'being there' through the history and development of BW must play a huge role in what so many are feeling now, but I really think the similarities of the games far outweigh their differences, at least from a spectator's point of view. I don't want to sound rude, I am just honestly wondering this. Can you point out any games in sc2 that can match the excitement, the quality of game play and the incredible display of skill of, say, these two recent BW games: + Show Spoiler +I understand that this is extremely subjective. But I am sincerely wondering because I have been watching some SC2 tornaments (especially when Stephano is playing because he looks very talented) and I haven't seen any games that are even close to being this good. This can be because the game just doesn't suit my subejctive preferenses or it could be that I just haven't been lucky when watching SC2. Check out MMA vs. DRG in Blizzard Cup...probably universally considered the most intense SC2 series thus far. Obviously you can't compare it to Proleague in terms of stakes and history between SKT and KT, but trust me, that series was very spectator friendly. Not sure if you need a GSL pass though I actually watched the series an it was very intense...for a starcraft 2 match. Sorry, I watch both games a lot and the difference in intensity and overall action and level of gameplay is huge.
I dunno, I still think it's due to the hype factor ingrained into BW fans. It's like saying watching a Brazilian soccer final with hardcore rabid fans vs. watching Europa cup finals, where the quality of play may be similar or even better, but people don't care as much.
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On May 12 2012 00:29 kakaman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 00:18 Miragee wrote:On May 11 2012 23:19 kakaman wrote:On May 11 2012 19:37 Elroi wrote:On May 11 2012 11:42 densha wrote:On May 11 2012 09:52 Maldais wrote:On May 11 2012 09:21 b0lt wrote:On May 11 2012 08:09 Maldais wrote:
There's a lot of hate on SC2 in this thread, some of the replies seem to show that people saw some sc2 in beta, didn't like it, and are still judging the game based on that. It's not deathball vs deathball anymore
Watch some GSL Code S You mean like the MVP vs parting code S semifinal set 4? Yes, because BW never has cheesy sets. Parting has been playing very greedy, which has allowed P to have very strong late games. MVP punished him for that, it's the metagame evolving, the very thing that has always made starcraft an amazing dynamic game. This comment is perfectly representative of what I see a lot of, trying to judge the entire game/community by a very small sample size. If a SC2 fan who had never watched BW before decided to give it a chance, saw two mediocre sets, and judged BW to be a terrible game based on that, what would you say? That is what you're doing to SC2. This is kind of funny because that sort of happened to me. Although I watch BW when it's on (and I subscribe to certain Youtube channels catering to BW), I have to say my experience has culminated in the thought that "hmm, this is a lot like SC2!". Some of the first full matches I saw were of players that I never heard of (i.e. they weren't Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Bisu, etc). One set I distinctly remember one player walking into siege tank fire needlessly and that immediately broke the aura that I had envisioned around BW. What I really do appreciate is the deep history and meta-game development that BW has. When looking at it that way, BW is so wonderful, but each individual game doesn't seem to have any more chance of being one of those "godly" type games than an SC2 game does. Both games have short cheesy games, both games have timing attacks (and players that build their careers off of them), both have macro games, both have those one-in-a-million EPIC games. I can certainly understand how 'being there' through the history and development of BW must play a huge role in what so many are feeling now, but I really think the similarities of the games far outweigh their differences, at least from a spectator's point of view. I don't want to sound rude, I am just honestly wondering this. Can you point out any games in sc2 that can match the excitement, the quality of game play and the incredible display of skill of, say, these two recent BW games: + Show Spoiler +I understand that this is extremely subjective. But I am sincerely wondering because I have been watching some SC2 tornaments (especially when Stephano is playing because he looks very talented) and I haven't seen any games that are even close to being this good. This can be because the game just doesn't suit my subejctive preferenses or it could be that I just haven't been lucky when watching SC2. Check out MMA vs. DRG in Blizzard Cup...probably universally considered the most intense SC2 series thus far. Obviously you can't compare it to Proleague in terms of stakes and history between SKT and KT, but trust me, that series was very spectator friendly. Not sure if you need a GSL pass though I actually watched the series an it was very intense...for a starcraft 2 match. Sorry, I watch both games a lot and the difference in intensity and overall action and level of gameplay is huge. I dunno, I still think it's due to the hype factor ingrained into BW fans. It's like saying watching a Brazilian soccer final with hardcore rabid fans vs. watching Europa cup finals, where the quality of play may be similar or even better, but people don't care as much.
Well, yeah. Things are more interesting when you're interested in them. That's almost tautological.
The upcoming GSL finals (spoilers, though it's been over 24 hours and it's on the front page) feature a guy with three GSL golds and a Silver, who hasn't won much of anything in nearly 8 months, against a potential Royal Roader (the first in GSL history, not counting the original GSL) on a 14 game winning steak. That's a really interesting story. What's more, it's a Bo7 TvP, a matchup that has been the subject of balance debates lately, where Terran (once a dominant race for months of GomTvTvT). It's old vs new in really every way. Old player versus young player. Established name vs upstart. Previously dominant race against newly strong race. That makes it a lot more interesting than a normal SC2 game, but only if you care about those things.
Likewise, Jangbi vs Fantasy in the OSL finals was way more than just an OSL finals. It was the Legend of the Fall. The BW forum was REALLY excited about that, and it was infectious, and so many SC2 fans watched that series and it got talked about on State of the Game, pretty much solely because it was the Legend of the Fall and everyone was flipping out over it. Proleague finals didn't get that level of attention from the non BW forum world. Nothing close to it. (Even though it was the last BW Proleague ever. If people knew that at the time, probably more foreign views)
Hype is a HUGE part of both game's success. I think the SC2 side is more aware of this that the slightly hoity-toity BW side, with GOM running vignettes on all the players and making a serious effort to make us care about them individually. I have a friend who never watched either starcraft, but he's interested in MarineKing solely because of the "I'm in the Kong Line and that makes me ;_;" documentary they put out. It's true for both games, though.
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On May 12 2012 00:29 kakaman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 00:18 Miragee wrote:On May 11 2012 23:19 kakaman wrote:On May 11 2012 19:37 Elroi wrote:On May 11 2012 11:42 densha wrote:On May 11 2012 09:52 Maldais wrote:On May 11 2012 09:21 b0lt wrote:On May 11 2012 08:09 Maldais wrote:
There's a lot of hate on SC2 in this thread, some of the replies seem to show that people saw some sc2 in beta, didn't like it, and are still judging the game based on that. It's not deathball vs deathball anymore
Watch some GSL Code S You mean like the MVP vs parting code S semifinal set 4? Yes, because BW never has cheesy sets. Parting has been playing very greedy, which has allowed P to have very strong late games. MVP punished him for that, it's the metagame evolving, the very thing that has always made starcraft an amazing dynamic game. This comment is perfectly representative of what I see a lot of, trying to judge the entire game/community by a very small sample size. If a SC2 fan who had never watched BW before decided to give it a chance, saw two mediocre sets, and judged BW to be a terrible game based on that, what would you say? That is what you're doing to SC2. This is kind of funny because that sort of happened to me. Although I watch BW when it's on (and I subscribe to certain Youtube channels catering to BW), I have to say my experience has culminated in the thought that "hmm, this is a lot like SC2!". Some of the first full matches I saw were of players that I never heard of (i.e. they weren't Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Bisu, etc). One set I distinctly remember one player walking into siege tank fire needlessly and that immediately broke the aura that I had envisioned around BW. What I really do appreciate is the deep history and meta-game development that BW has. When looking at it that way, BW is so wonderful, but each individual game doesn't seem to have any more chance of being one of those "godly" type games than an SC2 game does. Both games have short cheesy games, both games have timing attacks (and players that build their careers off of them), both have macro games, both have those one-in-a-million EPIC games. I can certainly understand how 'being there' through the history and development of BW must play a huge role in what so many are feeling now, but I really think the similarities of the games far outweigh their differences, at least from a spectator's point of view. I don't want to sound rude, I am just honestly wondering this. Can you point out any games in sc2 that can match the excitement, the quality of game play and the incredible display of skill of, say, these two recent BW games: + Show Spoiler +I understand that this is extremely subjective. But I am sincerely wondering because I have been watching some SC2 tornaments (especially when Stephano is playing because he looks very talented) and I haven't seen any games that are even close to being this good. This can be because the game just doesn't suit my subejctive preferenses or it could be that I just haven't been lucky when watching SC2. Check out MMA vs. DRG in Blizzard Cup...probably universally considered the most intense SC2 series thus far. Obviously you can't compare it to Proleague in terms of stakes and history between SKT and KT, but trust me, that series was very spectator friendly. Not sure if you need a GSL pass though I actually watched the series an it was very intense...for a starcraft 2 match. Sorry, I watch both games a lot and the difference in intensity and overall action and level of gameplay is huge. I dunno, I still think it's due to the hype factor ingrained into BW fans. It's like saying watching a Brazilian soccer final with hardcore rabid fans vs. watching Europa cup finals, where the quality of play may be similar or even better, but people don't care as much.
Your football analogy is so wrong that I had to reply just to say that, lol.
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On May 12 2012 02:14 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 00:29 kakaman wrote:On May 12 2012 00:18 Miragee wrote:On May 11 2012 23:19 kakaman wrote:On May 11 2012 19:37 Elroi wrote:On May 11 2012 11:42 densha wrote:On May 11 2012 09:52 Maldais wrote:On May 11 2012 09:21 b0lt wrote:On May 11 2012 08:09 Maldais wrote:
There's a lot of hate on SC2 in this thread, some of the replies seem to show that people saw some sc2 in beta, didn't like it, and are still judging the game based on that. It's not deathball vs deathball anymore
Watch some GSL Code S You mean like the MVP vs parting code S semifinal set 4? Yes, because BW never has cheesy sets. Parting has been playing very greedy, which has allowed P to have very strong late games. MVP punished him for that, it's the metagame evolving, the very thing that has always made starcraft an amazing dynamic game. This comment is perfectly representative of what I see a lot of, trying to judge the entire game/community by a very small sample size. If a SC2 fan who had never watched BW before decided to give it a chance, saw two mediocre sets, and judged BW to be a terrible game based on that, what would you say? That is what you're doing to SC2. This is kind of funny because that sort of happened to me. Although I watch BW when it's on (and I subscribe to certain Youtube channels catering to BW), I have to say my experience has culminated in the thought that "hmm, this is a lot like SC2!". Some of the first full matches I saw were of players that I never heard of (i.e. they weren't Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Bisu, etc). One set I distinctly remember one player walking into siege tank fire needlessly and that immediately broke the aura that I had envisioned around BW. What I really do appreciate is the deep history and meta-game development that BW has. When looking at it that way, BW is so wonderful, but each individual game doesn't seem to have any more chance of being one of those "godly" type games than an SC2 game does. Both games have short cheesy games, both games have timing attacks (and players that build their careers off of them), both have macro games, both have those one-in-a-million EPIC games. I can certainly understand how 'being there' through the history and development of BW must play a huge role in what so many are feeling now, but I really think the similarities of the games far outweigh their differences, at least from a spectator's point of view. I don't want to sound rude, I am just honestly wondering this. Can you point out any games in sc2 that can match the excitement, the quality of game play and the incredible display of skill of, say, these two recent BW games: + Show Spoiler +I understand that this is extremely subjective. But I am sincerely wondering because I have been watching some SC2 tornaments (especially when Stephano is playing because he looks very talented) and I haven't seen any games that are even close to being this good. This can be because the game just doesn't suit my subejctive preferenses or it could be that I just haven't been lucky when watching SC2. Check out MMA vs. DRG in Blizzard Cup...probably universally considered the most intense SC2 series thus far. Obviously you can't compare it to Proleague in terms of stakes and history between SKT and KT, but trust me, that series was very spectator friendly. Not sure if you need a GSL pass though I actually watched the series an it was very intense...for a starcraft 2 match. Sorry, I watch both games a lot and the difference in intensity and overall action and level of gameplay is huge. I dunno, I still think it's due to the hype factor ingrained into BW fans. It's like saying watching a Brazilian soccer final with hardcore rabid fans vs. watching Europa cup finals, where the quality of play may be similar or even better, but people don't care as much. Your football analogy is so wrong that I had to reply just to say that, lol.
Close enough
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On May 11 2012 23:19 kakaman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 19:37 Elroi wrote:On May 11 2012 11:42 densha wrote:On May 11 2012 09:52 Maldais wrote:On May 11 2012 09:21 b0lt wrote:On May 11 2012 08:09 Maldais wrote:
There's a lot of hate on SC2 in this thread, some of the replies seem to show that people saw some sc2 in beta, didn't like it, and are still judging the game based on that. It's not deathball vs deathball anymore
Watch some GSL Code S You mean like the MVP vs parting code S semifinal set 4? Yes, because BW never has cheesy sets. Parting has been playing very greedy, which has allowed P to have very strong late games. MVP punished him for that, it's the metagame evolving, the very thing that has always made starcraft an amazing dynamic game. This comment is perfectly representative of what I see a lot of, trying to judge the entire game/community by a very small sample size. If a SC2 fan who had never watched BW before decided to give it a chance, saw two mediocre sets, and judged BW to be a terrible game based on that, what would you say? That is what you're doing to SC2. This is kind of funny because that sort of happened to me. Although I watch BW when it's on (and I subscribe to certain Youtube channels catering to BW), I have to say my experience has culminated in the thought that "hmm, this is a lot like SC2!". Some of the first full matches I saw were of players that I never heard of (i.e. they weren't Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Bisu, etc). One set I distinctly remember one player walking into siege tank fire needlessly and that immediately broke the aura that I had envisioned around BW. What I really do appreciate is the deep history and meta-game development that BW has. When looking at it that way, BW is so wonderful, but each individual game doesn't seem to have any more chance of being one of those "godly" type games than an SC2 game does. Both games have short cheesy games, both games have timing attacks (and players that build their careers off of them), both have macro games, both have those one-in-a-million EPIC games. I can certainly understand how 'being there' through the history and development of BW must play a huge role in what so many are feeling now, but I really think the similarities of the games far outweigh their differences, at least from a spectator's point of view. I don't want to sound rude, I am just honestly wondering this. Can you point out any games in sc2 that can match the excitement, the quality of game play and the incredible display of skill of, say, these two recent BW games: + Show Spoiler +I understand that this is extremely subjective. But I am sincerely wondering because I have been watching some SC2 tornaments (especially when Stephano is playing because he looks very talented) and I haven't seen any games that are even close to being this good. This can be because the game just doesn't suit my subejctive preferenses or it could be that I just haven't been lucky when watching SC2. Check out MMA vs. DRG in Blizzard Cup...probably universally considered the most intense SC2 series thus far. Obviously you can't compare it to Proleague in terms of stakes and history between SKT and KT, but trust me, that series was very spectator friendly. Not sure if you need a GSL pass though
see it's funny, anytime someone says to watch a certain sc2 matchup that is supposed to be awesome (not saying it wasn't) they can't post a VOD of it. Anytime someone says there's an awesome BW VOD, they post it usually, or you can find it easily. I don't think I could ever get into sc2 if I have to pay for VODs. Sorry Blizz, I won't pay-to-play, and I won't pay to watch people play your games.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that I would really like to see that MMA vs DRG game if possible
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On May 12 2012 03:22 slappy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 23:19 kakaman wrote:On May 11 2012 19:37 Elroi wrote:On May 11 2012 11:42 densha wrote:On May 11 2012 09:52 Maldais wrote:On May 11 2012 09:21 b0lt wrote:On May 11 2012 08:09 Maldais wrote:
There's a lot of hate on SC2 in this thread, some of the replies seem to show that people saw some sc2 in beta, didn't like it, and are still judging the game based on that. It's not deathball vs deathball anymore
Watch some GSL Code S You mean like the MVP vs parting code S semifinal set 4? Yes, because BW never has cheesy sets. Parting has been playing very greedy, which has allowed P to have very strong late games. MVP punished him for that, it's the metagame evolving, the very thing that has always made starcraft an amazing dynamic game. This comment is perfectly representative of what I see a lot of, trying to judge the entire game/community by a very small sample size. If a SC2 fan who had never watched BW before decided to give it a chance, saw two mediocre sets, and judged BW to be a terrible game based on that, what would you say? That is what you're doing to SC2. This is kind of funny because that sort of happened to me. Although I watch BW when it's on (and I subscribe to certain Youtube channels catering to BW), I have to say my experience has culminated in the thought that "hmm, this is a lot like SC2!". Some of the first full matches I saw were of players that I never heard of (i.e. they weren't Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Bisu, etc). One set I distinctly remember one player walking into siege tank fire needlessly and that immediately broke the aura that I had envisioned around BW. What I really do appreciate is the deep history and meta-game development that BW has. When looking at it that way, BW is so wonderful, but each individual game doesn't seem to have any more chance of being one of those "godly" type games than an SC2 game does. Both games have short cheesy games, both games have timing attacks (and players that build their careers off of them), both have macro games, both have those one-in-a-million EPIC games. I can certainly understand how 'being there' through the history and development of BW must play a huge role in what so many are feeling now, but I really think the similarities of the games far outweigh their differences, at least from a spectator's point of view. I don't want to sound rude, I am just honestly wondering this. Can you point out any games in sc2 that can match the excitement, the quality of game play and the incredible display of skill of, say, these two recent BW games: + Show Spoiler +I understand that this is extremely subjective. But I am sincerely wondering because I have been watching some SC2 tornaments (especially when Stephano is playing because he looks very talented) and I haven't seen any games that are even close to being this good. This can be because the game just doesn't suit my subejctive preferenses or it could be that I just haven't been lucky when watching SC2. Check out MMA vs. DRG in Blizzard Cup...probably universally considered the most intense SC2 series thus far. Obviously you can't compare it to Proleague in terms of stakes and history between SKT and KT, but trust me, that series was very spectator friendly. Not sure if you need a GSL pass though see it's funny, anytime someone says to watch a certain sc2 matchup that is supposed to be awesome (not saying it wasn't) they can't post a VOD of it. Anytime someone says there's an awesome BW VOD, they post it usually, or you can find it easily. I don't think I could ever get into sc2 if I have to pay for VODs. Sorry Blizz, I won't pay-to-play, and I won't pay to watch people play your games. EDIT: I forgot to mention that I would really like to see that MMA vs DRG game if possible
Asking for pirated VoDs is a big no-no on this site, you may want to remove that edit.
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On May 11 2012 12:01 Harem wrote: Soo called it a "rubbish game" on his Facebook.
It would be really interesting to know what BW progamers really think of the game. I’m sure that some see the transition to SC2 as a fresh and exiting restart. I do however find it extremely hard to believe that they all love SC2. These guys were willing to sacrifice so much in order to play BW because they loved the game and now they are forced to switch to something completely different… Well, I guess they will only say positive things about SC2 as long as they are planning on playing it.
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On May 12 2012 03:45 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 03:22 slappy wrote:On May 11 2012 23:19 kakaman wrote:On May 11 2012 19:37 Elroi wrote:On May 11 2012 11:42 densha wrote:On May 11 2012 09:52 Maldais wrote:On May 11 2012 09:21 b0lt wrote:On May 11 2012 08:09 Maldais wrote:
There's a lot of hate on SC2 in this thread, some of the replies seem to show that people saw some sc2 in beta, didn't like it, and are still judging the game based on that. It's not deathball vs deathball anymore
Watch some GSL Code S You mean like the MVP vs parting code S semifinal set 4? Yes, because BW never has cheesy sets. Parting has been playing very greedy, which has allowed P to have very strong late games. MVP punished him for that, it's the metagame evolving, the very thing that has always made starcraft an amazing dynamic game. This comment is perfectly representative of what I see a lot of, trying to judge the entire game/community by a very small sample size. If a SC2 fan who had never watched BW before decided to give it a chance, saw two mediocre sets, and judged BW to be a terrible game based on that, what would you say? That is what you're doing to SC2. This is kind of funny because that sort of happened to me. Although I watch BW when it's on (and I subscribe to certain Youtube channels catering to BW), I have to say my experience has culminated in the thought that "hmm, this is a lot like SC2!". Some of the first full matches I saw were of players that I never heard of (i.e. they weren't Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Bisu, etc). One set I distinctly remember one player walking into siege tank fire needlessly and that immediately broke the aura that I had envisioned around BW. What I really do appreciate is the deep history and meta-game development that BW has. When looking at it that way, BW is so wonderful, but each individual game doesn't seem to have any more chance of being one of those "godly" type games than an SC2 game does. Both games have short cheesy games, both games have timing attacks (and players that build their careers off of them), both have macro games, both have those one-in-a-million EPIC games. I can certainly understand how 'being there' through the history and development of BW must play a huge role in what so many are feeling now, but I really think the similarities of the games far outweigh their differences, at least from a spectator's point of view. I don't want to sound rude, I am just honestly wondering this. Can you point out any games in sc2 that can match the excitement, the quality of game play and the incredible display of skill of, say, these two recent BW games: + Show Spoiler +I understand that this is extremely subjective. But I am sincerely wondering because I have been watching some SC2 tornaments (especially when Stephano is playing because he looks very talented) and I haven't seen any games that are even close to being this good. This can be because the game just doesn't suit my subejctive preferenses or it could be that I just haven't been lucky when watching SC2. Check out MMA vs. DRG in Blizzard Cup...probably universally considered the most intense SC2 series thus far. Obviously you can't compare it to Proleague in terms of stakes and history between SKT and KT, but trust me, that series was very spectator friendly. Not sure if you need a GSL pass though see it's funny, anytime someone says to watch a certain sc2 matchup that is supposed to be awesome (not saying it wasn't) they can't post a VOD of it. Anytime someone says there's an awesome BW VOD, they post it usually, or you can find it easily. I don't think I could ever get into sc2 if I have to pay for VODs. Sorry Blizz, I won't pay-to-play, and I won't pay to watch people play your games. EDIT: I forgot to mention that I would really like to see that MMA vs DRG game if possible Asking for pirated VoDs is a big no-no on this site, you may want to remove that edit.
I'm not asking for pirated vods. I'm saying I would love to see the game, and can't. You are proving my point for me
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On May 11 2012 23:19 kakaman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 19:37 Elroi wrote:On May 11 2012 11:42 densha wrote:On May 11 2012 09:52 Maldais wrote:On May 11 2012 09:21 b0lt wrote:On May 11 2012 08:09 Maldais wrote:
There's a lot of hate on SC2 in this thread, some of the replies seem to show that people saw some sc2 in beta, didn't like it, and are still judging the game based on that. It's not deathball vs deathball anymore
Watch some GSL Code S You mean like the MVP vs parting code S semifinal set 4? Yes, because BW never has cheesy sets. Parting has been playing very greedy, which has allowed P to have very strong late games. MVP punished him for that, it's the metagame evolving, the very thing that has always made starcraft an amazing dynamic game. This comment is perfectly representative of what I see a lot of, trying to judge the entire game/community by a very small sample size. If a SC2 fan who had never watched BW before decided to give it a chance, saw two mediocre sets, and judged BW to be a terrible game based on that, what would you say? That is what you're doing to SC2. This is kind of funny because that sort of happened to me. Although I watch BW when it's on (and I subscribe to certain Youtube channels catering to BW), I have to say my experience has culminated in the thought that "hmm, this is a lot like SC2!". Some of the first full matches I saw were of players that I never heard of (i.e. they weren't Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Bisu, etc). One set I distinctly remember one player walking into siege tank fire needlessly and that immediately broke the aura that I had envisioned around BW. What I really do appreciate is the deep history and meta-game development that BW has. When looking at it that way, BW is so wonderful, but each individual game doesn't seem to have any more chance of being one of those "godly" type games than an SC2 game does. Both games have short cheesy games, both games have timing attacks (and players that build their careers off of them), both have macro games, both have those one-in-a-million EPIC games. I can certainly understand how 'being there' through the history and development of BW must play a huge role in what so many are feeling now, but I really think the similarities of the games far outweigh their differences, at least from a spectator's point of view. I don't want to sound rude, I am just honestly wondering this. Can you point out any games in sc2 that can match the excitement, the quality of game play and the incredible display of skill of, say, these two recent BW games: + Show Spoiler +I understand that this is extremely subjective. But I am sincerely wondering because I have been watching some SC2 tornaments (especially when Stephano is playing because he looks very talented) and I haven't seen any games that are even close to being this good. This can be because the game just doesn't suit my subejctive preferenses or it could be that I just haven't been lucky when watching SC2. Check out MMA vs. DRG in Blizzard Cup...probably universally considered the most intense SC2 series thus far. Obviously you can't compare it to Proleague in terms of stakes and history between SKT and KT, but trust me, that series was very spectator friendly. Not sure if you need a GSL pass though
^ Does not compute.
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On May 12 2012 03:57 gn0m wrote:It would be really interesting to know what BW progamers really think of the game. I’m sure that some see the transition to SC2 as a fresh and exiting restart. I do however find it extremely hard to believe that they all love SC2. These guys were willing to sacrifice so much in order to play BW because they loved the game and now they are forced to switch to something completely different… Well, I guess they will only say positive things about SC2 as long as they are planning on playing it.
I think the wave of retirements that will inevitably come in several months will tell the real tale, especially once the transition is complete. Hopefully, the merge with the GOM teams will compensate for these retirements, but I think fans of both games will be saddened if big players start dropping out due to not being satisfied with SC2. And even if they don't retire, their dislike of SC2 may manifest itself in mediocre play. Heck, I look to Idra as an example, as he was arguably the most dominant foreigner of his time in BW, yet I think his rather public dislike for SC2 has affected his mentality and play to a point where that dominance is no longer true in SC2.
But that doesn't mean that some players will hate the game with a passion. From the recent interviews, Flash's insatiable thirst for competition will make him a dangerous force once he fully adapts. Then again, KeSPA is really good at regulating PR, so I don't trust absolutely everything, but I do feel that the thirst for competition will make at least some players look past the flaws in order to win.
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ace matches on sc2?
that is horrible..
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On May 12 2012 04:08 slappy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 03:45 TheButtonmen wrote:On May 12 2012 03:22 slappy wrote:On May 11 2012 23:19 kakaman wrote:On May 11 2012 19:37 Elroi wrote:On May 11 2012 11:42 densha wrote:On May 11 2012 09:52 Maldais wrote:On May 11 2012 09:21 b0lt wrote:On May 11 2012 08:09 Maldais wrote:
There's a lot of hate on SC2 in this thread, some of the replies seem to show that people saw some sc2 in beta, didn't like it, and are still judging the game based on that. It's not deathball vs deathball anymore
Watch some GSL Code S You mean like the MVP vs parting code S semifinal set 4? Yes, because BW never has cheesy sets. Parting has been playing very greedy, which has allowed P to have very strong late games. MVP punished him for that, it's the metagame evolving, the very thing that has always made starcraft an amazing dynamic game. This comment is perfectly representative of what I see a lot of, trying to judge the entire game/community by a very small sample size. If a SC2 fan who had never watched BW before decided to give it a chance, saw two mediocre sets, and judged BW to be a terrible game based on that, what would you say? That is what you're doing to SC2. This is kind of funny because that sort of happened to me. Although I watch BW when it's on (and I subscribe to certain Youtube channels catering to BW), I have to say my experience has culminated in the thought that "hmm, this is a lot like SC2!". Some of the first full matches I saw were of players that I never heard of (i.e. they weren't Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Bisu, etc). One set I distinctly remember one player walking into siege tank fire needlessly and that immediately broke the aura that I had envisioned around BW. What I really do appreciate is the deep history and meta-game development that BW has. When looking at it that way, BW is so wonderful, but each individual game doesn't seem to have any more chance of being one of those "godly" type games than an SC2 game does. Both games have short cheesy games, both games have timing attacks (and players that build their careers off of them), both have macro games, both have those one-in-a-million EPIC games. I can certainly understand how 'being there' through the history and development of BW must play a huge role in what so many are feeling now, but I really think the similarities of the games far outweigh their differences, at least from a spectator's point of view. I don't want to sound rude, I am just honestly wondering this. Can you point out any games in sc2 that can match the excitement, the quality of game play and the incredible display of skill of, say, these two recent BW games: + Show Spoiler +I understand that this is extremely subjective. But I am sincerely wondering because I have been watching some SC2 tornaments (especially when Stephano is playing because he looks very talented) and I haven't seen any games that are even close to being this good. This can be because the game just doesn't suit my subejctive preferenses or it could be that I just haven't been lucky when watching SC2. Check out MMA vs. DRG in Blizzard Cup...probably universally considered the most intense SC2 series thus far. Obviously you can't compare it to Proleague in terms of stakes and history between SKT and KT, but trust me, that series was very spectator friendly. Not sure if you need a GSL pass though see it's funny, anytime someone says to watch a certain sc2 matchup that is supposed to be awesome (not saying it wasn't) they can't post a VOD of it. Anytime someone says there's an awesome BW VOD, they post it usually, or you can find it easily. I don't think I could ever get into sc2 if I have to pay for VODs. Sorry Blizz, I won't pay-to-play, and I won't pay to watch people play your games. EDIT: I forgot to mention that I would really like to see that MMA vs DRG game if possible Asking for pirated VoDs is a big no-no on this site, you may want to remove that edit. I'm not asking for pirated vods. I'm saying I would love to see the game, and can't. You are proving my point for me
You do realize that's the reason why BW is about to die right?
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On May 12 2012 05:27 kakaman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 04:08 slappy wrote:On May 12 2012 03:45 TheButtonmen wrote:On May 12 2012 03:22 slappy wrote:On May 11 2012 23:19 kakaman wrote:On May 11 2012 19:37 Elroi wrote:On May 11 2012 11:42 densha wrote:On May 11 2012 09:52 Maldais wrote:On May 11 2012 09:21 b0lt wrote:On May 11 2012 08:09 Maldais wrote:
There's a lot of hate on SC2 in this thread, some of the replies seem to show that people saw some sc2 in beta, didn't like it, and are still judging the game based on that. It's not deathball vs deathball anymore
Watch some GSL Code S You mean like the MVP vs parting code S semifinal set 4? Yes, because BW never has cheesy sets. Parting has been playing very greedy, which has allowed P to have very strong late games. MVP punished him for that, it's the metagame evolving, the very thing that has always made starcraft an amazing dynamic game. This comment is perfectly representative of what I see a lot of, trying to judge the entire game/community by a very small sample size. If a SC2 fan who had never watched BW before decided to give it a chance, saw two mediocre sets, and judged BW to be a terrible game based on that, what would you say? That is what you're doing to SC2. This is kind of funny because that sort of happened to me. Although I watch BW when it's on (and I subscribe to certain Youtube channels catering to BW), I have to say my experience has culminated in the thought that "hmm, this is a lot like SC2!". Some of the first full matches I saw were of players that I never heard of (i.e. they weren't Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Bisu, etc). One set I distinctly remember one player walking into siege tank fire needlessly and that immediately broke the aura that I had envisioned around BW. What I really do appreciate is the deep history and meta-game development that BW has. When looking at it that way, BW is so wonderful, but each individual game doesn't seem to have any more chance of being one of those "godly" type games than an SC2 game does. Both games have short cheesy games, both games have timing attacks (and players that build their careers off of them), both have macro games, both have those one-in-a-million EPIC games. I can certainly understand how 'being there' through the history and development of BW must play a huge role in what so many are feeling now, but I really think the similarities of the games far outweigh their differences, at least from a spectator's point of view. I don't want to sound rude, I am just honestly wondering this. Can you point out any games in sc2 that can match the excitement, the quality of game play and the incredible display of skill of, say, these two recent BW games: + Show Spoiler +I understand that this is extremely subjective. But I am sincerely wondering because I have been watching some SC2 tornaments (especially when Stephano is playing because he looks very talented) and I haven't seen any games that are even close to being this good. This can be because the game just doesn't suit my subejctive preferenses or it could be that I just haven't been lucky when watching SC2. Check out MMA vs. DRG in Blizzard Cup...probably universally considered the most intense SC2 series thus far. Obviously you can't compare it to Proleague in terms of stakes and history between SKT and KT, but trust me, that series was very spectator friendly. Not sure if you need a GSL pass though see it's funny, anytime someone says to watch a certain sc2 matchup that is supposed to be awesome (not saying it wasn't) they can't post a VOD of it. Anytime someone says there's an awesome BW VOD, they post it usually, or you can find it easily. I don't think I could ever get into sc2 if I have to pay for VODs. Sorry Blizz, I won't pay-to-play, and I won't pay to watch people play your games. EDIT: I forgot to mention that I would really like to see that MMA vs DRG game if possible Asking for pirated VoDs is a big no-no on this site, you may want to remove that edit. I'm not asking for pirated vods. I'm saying I would love to see the game, and can't. You are proving my point for me You do realize that's the reason why BW is about to die right?
You do realize that you have no clue right?
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On May 12 2012 05:35 rasers wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 05:27 kakaman wrote:On May 12 2012 04:08 slappy wrote:On May 12 2012 03:45 TheButtonmen wrote:On May 12 2012 03:22 slappy wrote:On May 11 2012 23:19 kakaman wrote:On May 11 2012 19:37 Elroi wrote:On May 11 2012 11:42 densha wrote:On May 11 2012 09:52 Maldais wrote:On May 11 2012 09:21 b0lt wrote:
[quote]
You mean like the MVP vs parting code S semifinal set 4? Yes, because BW never has cheesy sets. Parting has been playing very greedy, which has allowed P to have very strong late games. MVP punished him for that, it's the metagame evolving, the very thing that has always made starcraft an amazing dynamic game. This comment is perfectly representative of what I see a lot of, trying to judge the entire game/community by a very small sample size. If a SC2 fan who had never watched BW before decided to give it a chance, saw two mediocre sets, and judged BW to be a terrible game based on that, what would you say? That is what you're doing to SC2. This is kind of funny because that sort of happened to me. Although I watch BW when it's on (and I subscribe to certain Youtube channels catering to BW), I have to say my experience has culminated in the thought that "hmm, this is a lot like SC2!". Some of the first full matches I saw were of players that I never heard of (i.e. they weren't Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Bisu, etc). One set I distinctly remember one player walking into siege tank fire needlessly and that immediately broke the aura that I had envisioned around BW. What I really do appreciate is the deep history and meta-game development that BW has. When looking at it that way, BW is so wonderful, but each individual game doesn't seem to have any more chance of being one of those "godly" type games than an SC2 game does. Both games have short cheesy games, both games have timing attacks (and players that build their careers off of them), both have macro games, both have those one-in-a-million EPIC games. I can certainly understand how 'being there' through the history and development of BW must play a huge role in what so many are feeling now, but I really think the similarities of the games far outweigh their differences, at least from a spectator's point of view. I don't want to sound rude, I am just honestly wondering this. Can you point out any games in sc2 that can match the excitement, the quality of game play and the incredible display of skill of, say, these two recent BW games: + Show Spoiler +I understand that this is extremely subjective. But I am sincerely wondering because I have been watching some SC2 tornaments (especially when Stephano is playing because he looks very talented) and I haven't seen any games that are even close to being this good. This can be because the game just doesn't suit my subejctive preferenses or it could be that I just haven't been lucky when watching SC2. Check out MMA vs. DRG in Blizzard Cup...probably universally considered the most intense SC2 series thus far. Obviously you can't compare it to Proleague in terms of stakes and history between SKT and KT, but trust me, that series was very spectator friendly. Not sure if you need a GSL pass though see it's funny, anytime someone says to watch a certain sc2 matchup that is supposed to be awesome (not saying it wasn't) they can't post a VOD of it. Anytime someone says there's an awesome BW VOD, they post it usually, or you can find it easily. I don't think I could ever get into sc2 if I have to pay for VODs. Sorry Blizz, I won't pay-to-play, and I won't pay to watch people play your games. EDIT: I forgot to mention that I would really like to see that MMA vs DRG game if possible Asking for pirated VoDs is a big no-no on this site, you may want to remove that edit. I'm not asking for pirated vods. I'm saying I would love to see the game, and can't. You are proving my point for me You do realize that's the reason why BW is about to die right? You do realize that you have no clue right?
Enlighten me
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On May 12 2012 03:57 gn0m wrote:It would be really interesting to know what BW progamers really think of the game. I’m sure that some see the transition to SC2 as a fresh and exiting restart. I do however find it extremely hard to believe that they all love SC2. These guys were willing to sacrifice so much in order to play BW because they loved the game and now they are forced to switch to something completely different… Well, I guess they will only say positive things about SC2 as long as they are planning on playing it.
Yup, I can see both sides to the argument in SC2 being a new challenge for them and now they have to sell the game. In the other light they're being forced to play a new game, which creates more tension to deliver good results.
For some players it could be a welcome change considering they either cannot break into their team's PL rosters or they've been there done that.
I like to focus more on the positives though. :D
On May 12 2012 05:39 kakaman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 05:35 rasers wrote:On May 12 2012 05:27 kakaman wrote:On May 12 2012 04:08 slappy wrote:On May 12 2012 03:45 TheButtonmen wrote:On May 12 2012 03:22 slappy wrote:On May 11 2012 23:19 kakaman wrote:On May 11 2012 19:37 Elroi wrote:On May 11 2012 11:42 densha wrote:On May 11 2012 09:52 Maldais wrote:
[quote]
Yes, because BW never has cheesy sets.
Parting has been playing very greedy, which has allowed P to have very strong late games. MVP punished him for that, it's the metagame evolving, the very thing that has always made starcraft an amazing dynamic game.
This comment is perfectly representative of what I see a lot of, trying to judge the entire game/community by a very small sample size. If a SC2 fan who had never watched BW before decided to give it a chance, saw two mediocre sets, and judged BW to be a terrible game based on that, what would you say? That is what you're doing to SC2. This is kind of funny because that sort of happened to me. Although I watch BW when it's on (and I subscribe to certain Youtube channels catering to BW), I have to say my experience has culminated in the thought that "hmm, this is a lot like SC2!". Some of the first full matches I saw were of players that I never heard of (i.e. they weren't Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Bisu, etc). One set I distinctly remember one player walking into siege tank fire needlessly and that immediately broke the aura that I had envisioned around BW. What I really do appreciate is the deep history and meta-game development that BW has. When looking at it that way, BW is so wonderful, but each individual game doesn't seem to have any more chance of being one of those "godly" type games than an SC2 game does. Both games have short cheesy games, both games have timing attacks (and players that build their careers off of them), both have macro games, both have those one-in-a-million EPIC games. I can certainly understand how 'being there' through the history and development of BW must play a huge role in what so many are feeling now, but I really think the similarities of the games far outweigh their differences, at least from a spectator's point of view. I don't want to sound rude, I am just honestly wondering this. Can you point out any games in sc2 that can match the excitement, the quality of game play and the incredible display of skill of, say, these two recent BW games: + Show Spoiler +I understand that this is extremely subjective. But I am sincerely wondering because I have been watching some SC2 tornaments (especially when Stephano is playing because he looks very talented) and I haven't seen any games that are even close to being this good. This can be because the game just doesn't suit my subejctive preferenses or it could be that I just haven't been lucky when watching SC2. Check out MMA vs. DRG in Blizzard Cup...probably universally considered the most intense SC2 series thus far. Obviously you can't compare it to Proleague in terms of stakes and history between SKT and KT, but trust me, that series was very spectator friendly. Not sure if you need a GSL pass though see it's funny, anytime someone says to watch a certain sc2 matchup that is supposed to be awesome (not saying it wasn't) they can't post a VOD of it. Anytime someone says there's an awesome BW VOD, they post it usually, or you can find it easily. I don't think I could ever get into sc2 if I have to pay for VODs. Sorry Blizz, I won't pay-to-play, and I won't pay to watch people play your games. EDIT: I forgot to mention that I would really like to see that MMA vs DRG game if possible Asking for pirated VoDs is a big no-no on this site, you may want to remove that edit. I'm not asking for pirated vods. I'm saying I would love to see the game, and can't. You are proving my point for me You do realize that's the reason why BW is about to die right? You do realize that you have no clue right? Enlighten me
Considering how ignorant you are and there have been posts and posts of discussion about it yet you decide not to search for yourself, how about no?
The other guy was right. You don't know what the hell you're talking about when it comes to correlation between VOD accessibility and KeSPA transitioning to SC2.
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I tried to spend a night watching the 'best' sc2 players in current games.
Needlessly to say, the sc2 vod scene is horrible and I don't want to be stealing to watch great sc2 games.
Sorry, but vod sharing is why after the fall of broodwar.net why so many of us migrated to sites like teamliquid.
I won't be paying for an account for a game I haven't got to watch a lot of high level games.
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EPT
