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On March 25 2012 00:56 cuppatea wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 00:08 maybenexttime wrote:On March 24 2012 21:50 Zzoram wrote:
Call me crazy but I like this idea and would totally watch it.
It would get foreigners to watch more Broodwar and get Koreans to watch more SC2. You know what would definitely make more Koreans watch SC2 and BW players be happy at the same time? Making SC2 a worthy successor to BW and an actually good spectator sport. Whoever came up with this stupid idea is disrecpectful to the BW fans. We don't need to be introduced to SC2, and I doubt Koreans do. The game simply does not meet our standards and Blizzard has no intention to make it any better. They're more concerned with casuals who will quit their game after a while anyway. The game sold well, reviewed well and, as an eSport, greatly exceeded the popularity of BW everywhere outside of Korea and I would guess maybe China. I don't think it's been quite the failure you make it out to be.
If it wasn't for Blizzard's reputation, WoW's popularity, BW's legacy as an esport and massive marketing, it wouldn't get anywhere. If the game was not called StarCraft 2, it wouldn't be half as popular. Didn't it lose like half of it's active player base already? SC2's popularity is a bubble. You'll learn soon enough if the Korean scene will transition to SC2, as Koreans will start to dominate every competition like they did in both BW and WC3 (when their WC3 scene was in its prime before the scandal). SC2's popularity will wane in the West.
The game is severely lacking in terms of micro, macro, strategy depth, maps and so on. Sure, it's a decent run-of-the-mill RTS. But it's nowhere near BW level and Blizzard does not aspire for it to get there. They want an easy game that sells among casuals.
Competent people have made countless invaluable suggestions on how to fix badly designed units and spells, macro mechanics, maps, the economy, bnet, and so on. Blizzard never gave a damn about it. The game sold. They're going to market the expansions like crazy and then won't fix any of the glaring issues anyway. Remember what they said about clan support during beta? "Some time after the release, in one of the first big content patches." Where is clan support now?
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On March 24 2012 22:05 Nouar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 21:48 ImbaTosS wrote:On March 24 2012 21:31 ffreakk wrote:On March 24 2012 20:03 0kz wrote:On March 24 2012 19:25 ImbaTosS wrote:On March 24 2012 18:58 Lennoxito wrote:
Really good idea, i like it. After couple seasons they even could transition fully to sc2. Haha that's funny... Oh no wait, you're just a fucking tool. Your kind would never have showed up here if it weren't for that poisonous game and it's community being inclusive and accepting of dimwitted children. Standards slipped the minute the mass-market turned up. Everyone from community members, to developers, to players to major organisers suddenly realised that they don't really care about standards/loyalty as long as there's money going to come at them. Enter people like this, en mass. An unearned superiority in the hands of anyone who wants it, creates so many entitled, gleeful internet children with no idea of to whom they are actually gloating, and how much we've put into this game. Teamliquid mods do their best, but you people keep popping up. Im actually more concerned about people like you, the dude had an opinion and didn't even say much.. worst class of bw fan is the one that thinks we live inside a box yay, I understand you might love bw because I do aswell but come on.. there was no need to bash him for nothing... The whole bw + sc2 idea still sounds horrible, as I said before if it had to happen I'd rather see only sc2, if all this is true kespa might be drunk or something.. Bash him for nothing? o.O Doesn't he belong to the swarms of posters that we never saw before just suddenly pop up here and wish for a full SC2 transition? It is a sensitive time. I mean, we all control our tempers differently, but i sure as heck see where hes coming from. If i was in a fouler mood, i likely wouldn't hesitate to bash his face in as well (verbally of course). Guys like those are the exact reasons why there were ever friction between the SC2 and BW people in the first place. We live inside a box yay? I did not bash him for nothing, claiming innocence on his behalf is naive. I'm the worst class of BW fan??? Thanks a bunch. As a guy who has put tons of time in the past into running teams, into trying to help organise events, training new players, making guides, commentating, and not to mention giving a whole load of money to the foreign scene in recent times, and not once expected anything back, I find that pretty hard to take. When you see what efforts I have made for the scene, you can maybe see why kids like him rub me up the wrong way, very very quickly. That on top of a topic speculating that we are about to be absolutely shafted by the higher-ups, culminates in some volatile stuff on my part. ffreak has some decent understanding of where I'm coming from here. Doesn't matter where you are or where he is coming from, you are bashing on a whole community and game, when a guy simply stated "he liked it, and what would be the most probable transition". His post was in no way offensive, everyone can have his opinion, for what you know the guy is 30 and has been as involved in other communities as you were in this one. Don't ASSUME things and tell people they are kids and have a shitty opinion and where they come from because you are angry. Show you are yourself, an adult, and refrain from posting when you are angry, especially when that guy, on that specific post, just doesn't deserve it. (and answer your PMs.) @ffreakk : the point is exactly to control your temper, and refrain from posting when in a bad mood. You can only complain about bad attitude when your own is not. Else you look like a fool. On a sidenote : I am 28, have been involved in esports and tournaments for the last 12 years in various games including BW, love BW as much as you do since I've been avidly watching since 2003, am angry too, often, and that's why I allow myself to tell you to control yourself.
Well, unsurprisingly the only ones who defend those annoying dudes whose post history is 100% on SC2 forums are other dudes with 100% post history from the SC2 forums, why am i not surprised.
He came to the Brood War forums sprouting shits like you did, i think that little bashing was exactly what he deserved.
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Seems a bit weird, but I suppose it could work in theory to sum up the fanbases a bit. OGN probably knows the BW fanbase pretty well so if they think it would work, there might be something to it. It doesn't seem to work with the foreign BW fanbase, but it's probably an insignificant target group not much worth worrying about (the current community is probably pretty useless to OGN).
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It's pretty pathetic seing all the hate agaisn't star2, it's an absolutely worthy game of getting it's own proleague and why must it be combined with BW?
I rather have two seperate leagues tbh.
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On March 25 2012 01:26 Hundisilm wrote:
Seems a bit weird, but I suppose it could work in theory to sum up the fanbases a bit. OGN probably knows the BW fanbase pretty well so if they think it would work, there might be something to it. It doesn't seem to work with the foreign BW fanbase, but it's probably an insignificant target group not much worth worrying about (the current community is probably pretty useless to OGN).
Nope, BW fans in Korea don't like it either.
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On March 25 2012 01:23 ffreakk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 22:05 Nouar wrote:On March 24 2012 21:48 ImbaTosS wrote:On March 24 2012 21:31 ffreakk wrote:On March 24 2012 20:03 0kz wrote:On March 24 2012 19:25 ImbaTosS wrote:On March 24 2012 18:58 Lennoxito wrote:
Really good idea, i like it. After couple seasons they even could transition fully to sc2. Haha that's funny... Oh no wait, you're just a fucking tool. Your kind would never have showed up here if it weren't for that poisonous game and it's community being inclusive and accepting of dimwitted children. Standards slipped the minute the mass-market turned up. Everyone from community members, to developers, to players to major organisers suddenly realised that they don't really care about standards/loyalty as long as there's money going to come at them. Enter people like this, en mass. An unearned superiority in the hands of anyone who wants it, creates so many entitled, gleeful internet children with no idea of to whom they are actually gloating, and how much we've put into this game. Teamliquid mods do their best, but you people keep popping up. Im actually more concerned about people like you, the dude had an opinion and didn't even say much.. worst class of bw fan is the one that thinks we live inside a box yay, I understand you might love bw because I do aswell but come on.. there was no need to bash him for nothing... The whole bw + sc2 idea still sounds horrible, as I said before if it had to happen I'd rather see only sc2, if all this is true kespa might be drunk or something.. Bash him for nothing? o.O Doesn't he belong to the swarms of posters that we never saw before just suddenly pop up here and wish for a full SC2 transition? It is a sensitive time. I mean, we all control our tempers differently, but i sure as heck see where hes coming from. If i was in a fouler mood, i likely wouldn't hesitate to bash his face in as well (verbally of course). Guys like those are the exact reasons why there were ever friction between the SC2 and BW people in the first place. We live inside a box yay? I did not bash him for nothing, claiming innocence on his behalf is naive. I'm the worst class of BW fan??? Thanks a bunch. As a guy who has put tons of time in the past into running teams, into trying to help organise events, training new players, making guides, commentating, and not to mention giving a whole load of money to the foreign scene in recent times, and not once expected anything back, I find that pretty hard to take. When you see what efforts I have made for the scene, you can maybe see why kids like him rub me up the wrong way, very very quickly. That on top of a topic speculating that we are about to be absolutely shafted by the higher-ups, culminates in some volatile stuff on my part. ffreak has some decent understanding of where I'm coming from here. Doesn't matter where you are or where he is coming from, you are bashing on a whole community and game, when a guy simply stated "he liked it, and what would be the most probable transition". His post was in no way offensive, everyone can have his opinion, for what you know the guy is 30 and has been as involved in other communities as you were in this one. Don't ASSUME things and tell people they are kids and have a shitty opinion and where they come from because you are angry. Show you are yourself, an adult, and refrain from posting when you are angry, especially when that guy, on that specific post, just doesn't deserve it. (and answer your PMs.) @ffreakk : the point is exactly to control your temper, and refrain from posting when in a bad mood. You can only complain about bad attitude when your own is not. Else you look like a fool. On a sidenote : I am 28, have been involved in esports and tournaments for the last 12 years in various games including BW, love BW as much as you do since I've been avidly watching since 2003, am angry too, often, and that's why I allow myself to tell you to control yourself. Well, unsurprisingly the only ones who defend those annoying dudes whose post history is 100% on SC2 forums are other dudes with 100% post history from the SC2 forums, why am i not surprised. He came to the Brood War forums sprouting shits like you did, i think that little bashing was exactly what he deserved.
Just because SC1 games these times are when I'm at work or sleeping in the morning, while there are SC2 tournaments when I'm OFF-work, doesn't mean I haven't been following the scene for 7 years and admin little things here and there like oh.... the SC1 tournament at WWI 2008 ? Like I said, don't assume things...
What does a comment about controlling anger even have to do with liking or not SC1 or 2 have to do with my post history ? Can't you take advice just as it comes ?
And "the only ones defending"... you mean the mod who warned ImbaToss (whom I had a healthy and sensible conversation with in MP) for that post, is also "an annoying guy who only posts on SC2 forums" ?
@ Ryo : I bet they don't lol, especially if they get shitty sc2 games in the process, and not high quality ones. It has a LITTLE chance to go right, and 99% chance to go horribly wrong :/
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I think I'm one of very few who do not think this is a terrible idea. In fact, I think it's actually a pretty decent idea.
I love Brood War. The level of refinement and precision in top play is really amazing to watch. But let's face it: Brood War is dying. I was switching between the Khan vs KT semifinal and MLG Columbus last night, and the difference in the crowd sizes was really depressing. BW might last a while longer, but it will gradually lose spectators and players to SC2/LoL.
The "SC Proleague" idea is the only way to introduce NEW viewers to BW. I think for that reason alone it is a really good idea. Current PL teams get to keep their top BW players on BW, and can more easily make the switch to integrating SC2 by having a few designated players. Suddenly the much larger SC2 audience is being exposed to BW, which is awesome. BW diehards may also gain a little more respect for SC2. I think at the end of the day, this idea could greatly prolong the current BW scene, even if the leagues eventually separate.
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Why would BW fans suddenly gain more respect for SC2? The problem is not our/their lack of exposure. The problem is SC2 not meeting our standards in so many regards.
It would actually be easy for Blizzard to fix those issues, especially considering the fact that HotS will reset the balance. Good solutions have already been suggested. But Blizzard is unlikely to listen to anyone. They think they know how handle their games after release, but the truth is, they do more harm than good. WC3 is the best example. I don't think they have ever reveresed any of their stupid decisions there. They never admit to being wrong, and that's the biggest problem.
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On March 25 2012 01:41 getSome[703] wrote:
I think I'm one of very few who do not think this is a terrible idea. In fact, I think it's actually a pretty decent idea.
I love Brood War. The level of refinement and precision in top play is really amazing to watch. But let's face it: Brood War is dying. I was switching between the Khan vs KT semifinal and MLG Columbus last night, and the difference in the crowd sizes was really depressing. BW might last a while longer, but it will gradually lose spectators and players to SC2/LoL.
The "SC Proleague" idea is the only way to introduce NEW viewers to BW. I think for that reason alone it is a really good idea. Current PL teams get to keep their top BW players on BW, and can more easily make the switch to integrating SC2 by having a few designated players. Suddenly the much larger SC2 audience is being exposed to BW, which is awesome. BW diehards may also gain a little more respect for SC2. I think at the end of the day, this idea could greatly prolong the current BW scene, even if the leagues eventually separate.
LOL. That's because PL is played at the studio in iParkmall.
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On March 25 2012 01:41 getSome[703] wrote:
I love Brood War. The level of refinement and precision in top play is really amazing to watch. But let's face it: Brood War is dying. I was switching between the Khan vs KT semifinal and MLG Columbus last night, and the difference in the crowd sizes was really depressing. BW might last a while longer, but it will gradually lose spectators and players to SC2/LoL.\
Don't even make comparisons of BW and tournaments like MLG. Both work differently, thus both will have different number of on-site viewers.
Basic fact: MLG will have more on-site viewers than BW during regular season. MLG never came close to beating Jin Air OSL final attendees last year.
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Why not just add LoL, Dota2 and CS:GO and make a ULTIMATE MEGA SUPA DUPA PROLEAGUE!?
Sounds awesome right? ... .. .
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Plus there are several games at MLG, when people at OSL finals only come for Brood War. You just can't compare these numbers. At all.
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This is something only the insanity caused by watching K-Pop can cause...
wtf mates?
w.t.f?
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when Koreans see the zzzzz of SC2 directly after a BW game... should be amusing. Excited screams over spider mines, scarab hits/duds, psionic storms, AAAH RECALL into...viking vs colossi sniping? Ghost vs high templar autocast wars? Force fields trapping and killing half an army? Can't wait.
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On March 25 2012 01:57 RoyAlex wrote:
Why not just add LoL, Dota2 and CS:GO and make a ULTIMATE MEGA SUPA DUPA PROLEAGUE!?
Sounds awesome right? ... .. .
Add 2 more games and we got our own ESPORT heptathlon!
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On March 25 2012 01:50 Ryo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 01:41 getSome[703] wrote:
I think I'm one of very few who do not think this is a terrible idea. In fact, I think it's actually a pretty decent idea.
I love Brood War. The level of refinement and precision in top play is really amazing to watch. But let's face it: Brood War is dying. I was switching between the Khan vs KT semifinal and MLG Columbus last night, and the difference in the crowd sizes was really depressing. BW might last a while longer, but it will gradually lose spectators and players to SC2/LoL.
The "SC Proleague" idea is the only way to introduce NEW viewers to BW. I think for that reason alone it is a really good idea. Current PL teams get to keep their top BW players on BW, and can more easily make the switch to integrating SC2 by having a few designated players. Suddenly the much larger SC2 audience is being exposed to BW, which is awesome. BW diehards may also gain a little more respect for SC2. I think at the end of the day, this idea could greatly prolong the current BW scene, even if the leagues eventually separate. LOL. That's because PL is played at the studio in iParkmall.
What? If more people were expected to show up, they would have booked a larger studio. Also the number of MLG attendees far exceeds the number of SKT vs KT PL finals attendees from last year, which was played in a medium sized ampitheater that had the capacity to seat many more people than showed up.
Don't even make comparisons of BW and tournaments like MLG. Both work differently, thus both will have different number of on-site viewers.
Basic fact: MLG will have more on-site viewers than BW during regular season. MLG never came close to beating Jin Air OSL final attendees last year.
The one tournament that has a comparable live audience to MLG are the OSL finals. However I would say that MLG attendance is definitely comparable, and that they would exceed the OSL finals attendance if they found a way to host it in a large enough convention center.
Also, MLG is run much more frequently, in locations with a much lower population density than Korea. The fact that the tournament repeatedly fills convention centers speaks magnitudes about SC2's poularity.
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Holy shit, this is the worst way imaginable they could have gone about in introducing SC2.
Should have gone for more separation. At least make the whole series one game or the other, if they don't want individual tournaments already, so that the viewers can pick which ones to watch. -_-
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Pretty disappointed with the BW TL community.
Thought they were above these kinds of remarks and hate.
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On March 25 2012 02:07 getSome[703] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 01:50 Ryo wrote:On March 25 2012 01:41 getSome[703] wrote:
I think I'm one of very few who do not think this is a terrible idea. In fact, I think it's actually a pretty decent idea.
I love Brood War. The level of refinement and precision in top play is really amazing to watch. But let's face it: Brood War is dying. I was switching between the Khan vs KT semifinal and MLG Columbus last night, and the difference in the crowd sizes was really depressing. BW might last a while longer, but it will gradually lose spectators and players to SC2/LoL.
The "SC Proleague" idea is the only way to introduce NEW viewers to BW. I think for that reason alone it is a really good idea. Current PL teams get to keep their top BW players on BW, and can more easily make the switch to integrating SC2 by having a few designated players. Suddenly the much larger SC2 audience is being exposed to BW, which is awesome. BW diehards may also gain a little more respect for SC2. I think at the end of the day, this idea could greatly prolong the current BW scene, even if the leagues eventually separate. LOL. That's because PL is played at the studio in iParkmall. What? If more people were expected to show up, they would have booked a larger studio. Also the number of MLG attendees far exceeds the number of SKT vs KT PL finals attendees from last year, which was played in a medium sized ampitheater that had the capacity to seat many more people than showed up.
Probably because MLG hosts multiple games?
And this isn't even comparing stream numbers, which is where the real numbers are anyways.
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On March 25 2012 02:02 rift wrote:
when Koreans see the zzzzz of SC2 directly after a BW game... should be amusing. Excited screams over spider mines, scarab hits/duds, psionic storms, blue goo everywhere to...viking vs colossus sniping? Ghost vs high templar autocast wars? Force fields trapping and killing majorities of armies? Can't wait.
Oh, very constructive post.
If you don't have anything to contribute, just stop it. Posts like these only help turning this thread into a flamefest.
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EPT
