I still play both old and new games. There are good new games, and there are bad ones. The same for the old.
Personally, i don't care if the game is "hard", if it's beginner friendly or anything close to that. First and foremost, i care how much i enjoy it. What's needed for me to enjoy a game? It's the feel i get when i noticed during playing the game that the developers cared about the game, tried to make it the best they can. For instance i get that feeling every time i play Super Mario World for SNES. I like the world build, the secrets, the soundtrack, just everything seems right about it. When i play it, i feel captivated. And i get the same feeling when i play Super Mario 64, or Super Mario Galaxy. Regardless of the graphics, the gameplay progress etc., i like all 3 of them equally much, because i feel they all have the same amount of "heart" into them.
And for me, BW is one of them. Every time i hear the Zealot grunt when he attacks with his blade, it feels right. Whenever Goons are being fucking stupid idiots, it still feels right. The Bnet chat channels, Lan etc.
Starcraft 2 isn't. I don't get the feeling out of it that Blizzard cared to create the best game they could for the community or to create the best thing they possibly could. It doesn't have the magic. I still like i a lot, still play it occasionally and watch it. But what's keeping me involved with Sc2 is the community, not the game itself.
On December 28 2011 03:21 Boblion wrote: The ladder system is fine ( even if the division system is shitty ) but everything else from custom to team games is absolutly atrocious. You can't create and name your game, the only maps played are on the top of the list ( and hence it is always the same lol ), took them 6 months to make chat channels and they are still way too small since the whole ui is cluttered with all the "achievements".
Your problem with SC:BW is the lack of a ladder sytem with match making which is completly different of the overall interface.
Haha dw man, i have practically converted from SC2 to BW, love the game and think it is 10x better, even without the nostalgia that you all share! dont worry, this game will live on forever
Not sure if nostalgia has anything to do with it. When I was at my parent's house I found the old nintendo 64 and played ocarina of time for a while. THIS was nostalgia, but i kinda got bored of it after a while. I play broodwar cause it's fun and challenging, when new games come out i play them and enjoy them most of the time, but i get bored pretty fast, only bw makes me return.
About the "last generation" thing.. I'm not sure. Gaming legends will probably get played by hardcore fans of the genre in the futur, but i don't think it will last for long. Maybe with websites like TL.net that keeps developing thanks to new generation games, but still keep "old games" comunitys alive, gamers will come in for the new game, but discover and fell in love with the old. I don't want to say there will be a last generation. You can bet I'm making my kids play broodwar in the future, wether they like or not!
The elitism is poking out a little through the spot where your fly is unzipped.
People have passions for different types of games. Graphics get better every few years with people making the same tired argument about how "back in the day it was all about gameplay".
I'm sure the exact same argument has been made by WarCraft 2 players about Brood War. And before that by Commodore 64 gamers about SNES, and by Tetris fanatics about all these shoddy new puzzle games with their fancy graphics, and so on.
In the future, there will come a day when SC2's graphics suck and people will talk about how at least SC2 has decent gameplay while SC3 is just trash. Then we'll move on to holographic/3-dimensional displays and then people will talk about how it's so gimmicky and the days of 2d graphics were at least about the game play. Then we'll have virtual reality simulations, and so on, and so forth.
Enjoy the games for what they are, cherish your memories. But you or we aren't the first or last of anything.
Ahhh, such a soothing post, I'm happy not to be alone in this forsaken world of modern games. I was so into games at school back then... d1 d2 fallout1/2, sc all those wonderful deep and challenging worlds. Those were the times. Now only bw is left on my hdd, I also play New Vegas, occasionally, but more and more I catch myself thingking "what the heck am I doing in this game?" I don't know, maybe we are getting older and nostalgic, I just don't know, but last time I thoroughly enjoyed a game was like 2-3 years ago... What the hell happened to me? I'm just not that guy anymore. BW is the only thing I can still play and don't feel dumb. Heh, last generation eh?
On December 28 2011 08:04 Newbistic wrote: I'm sure the exact same argument has been made by WarCraft 2 players about Brood War. And before that by Commodore 64 gamers about SNES, and by Tetris fanatics about all these shoddy new puzzle games with their fancy graphics, and so on.
In the future, there will come a day when SC2's graphics suck and people will talk about how at least SC2 has decent gameplay while SC3 is just trash. Then we'll move on to holographic/3-dimensional displays and then people will talk about how it's so gimmicky and the days of 2d graphics were at least about the game play. Then we'll have virtual reality simulations, and so on, and so forth.
Enjoy the games for what they are, cherish your memories. But you or we aren't the first or last of anything.
While I partially agree that the graphics vs gameplay argument is a bit of a rehash of "Back in my day," I don't think I agree with anything else you write.
I don't think so because I came from Warcraft 2/ Age of Empire 2 to Brood War. And I only started Brood War in 2007. So it's not nostalgia for me because I'm still playing it and only joined recently. Furthermore, while I am nostalgic about Warcraft 2 (awesome atmosphere and music) I can't really get into it like Brood War because the gameplay is not nearly so good. Good gameplay is good gameplay and memories don't really come into play with that.
In addition, there is a genuine critique to be made of the pc gaming industry beyond "Back in my day." Shamus Young and several others interested in game development have pointed out that pc games particular have one dimensionally been pushing for more realistic graphics without making better use of the tools they already have (console games usually stick with the same system for a while and get better at using the tools they have- pc industry will create new tools every time the make a new game.) There's a lot of potential development that has atrophied because AAA games have not bothered to back anything but good graphics. For instance some thing like procedural generation
On December 28 2011 03:21 Boblion wrote: The ladder system is fine ( even if the division system is shitty ) but everything else from custom to team games is absolutly atrocious. You can't create and name your game, the only maps played are on the top of the list ( and hence it is always the same lol ), took them 6 months to make chat channels and they are still way too small since the whole ui is cluttered with all the "achievements".
Your problem with SC:BW is the lack of a ladder sytem with match making which is completly different of the overall interface.
On December 27 2011 23:17 FFGenerations wrote: ssoo excitde cnat spel klazzart rigght zomg1 :D
it is sad to know that kids arent growing up with ff7 anymore ;( i guess when WE become parents itll be up to us to introduce our kids to it and spawn a new generation. same with cartoons (if disney can do it..!)
The thing is, there's a generation of gamers that are already sad that there's a generation of gamers that considers FF7 the first seminal work in the Final Fantasy series that people should be sad that others will not grow up with.
FFIV and FFVI shaped my childhood. FF7 was like my SC2.
The SNES generation keeps mentioning FF4 and FF6, but never FF5. I've played through all FF games up to 12 and I never saw the greatness in FF4. I think it's a great game, but I don't think it's better than FF5. They are the two most similar games in the series, and the reason why the SNES generation keeps mentioning FF4 while neglecting FF5 is because of nostalgia. FF6 is a awesome game though. That game really set the bar high, but I think FF7 lived up to that. I know FF7 had flaws, mainly the dumbed down battle mechanics, but in terms of storyline FF7 was just great. It has the most complex story of the series to this day, and Sephiroth is the most interesting villain by far, and it's not just about the visuals. Sephiroth had layers. He had a interesting background, and his actions are very much an expression to who he was. That's something that was very groundbreaking. Most villains up to that point were just generic bad guys. I can say the same thing about Cloud, the main character. He was such a complex character.
I'm sorry, but I will never take a person bashing on FF7 seriously.
Anyway. Personally, the reason why I'm clinging to BW is because no game can replace it right now. I envy the SC2 players for being able to play a game that hasn't been figured out yet, but that's not enough for me to switch. SC2 just has nothing that appeals to me.
The reason why is that this is what every single gaming community says about the one that follows it
I am a serious dinosaur in gaming years - I've been playing games online since Quake in '96, and the only games that truly preceded it at all were MUDs and War2 on Kali. Anyway, as you can imagine, I've bobbled through a lot of communities over the years, and you can follow the bouncing ball throughout the years quite clearly
The Quake guys talk shit about CS endlessly The CS guys talk shit about Halo endlessly The Halo guys don't really have much to bitch about yet, only COD, but eventually a new game will come out for them to whine about
There is always some truth to whatever the complaint is - spread is bad, controllers are bad - but none of these communities can ever get out of the box and reflect on things that have changed that are actually good.
As far as I'm concerned, Starcraft is the only RTS game of merit, so it's not surprising this consistently recurrent attitude would take so long to surface. I'm sure you'll all get used to it.
The people who are noobs now, will be saying the same things about Starcraft 3 a decade from now.
Is BW the better game? Overall, yeah, probably, but it's not all junk, and there are certain things in the game that I think are good additions. The best example I could give you would be Blink.
I don't see how it can be argued as anything OTHER than nostalgia. I mean, we grew up with these games, thus our values have been shaped by them and the times where we grew up/played them. The current generation has their own games, and are experiencing a different childhood than we were, so to push our games on them because we think they are 'better' due to xyz, is nothing more than nostalgia.
good graphics are the shit. If I started sc2 before BW I also would hate on BW and believe the nostalgia argument. Fortunately I played BW first so I can look past the graphical flaws and enjoy playing a game in which the micro actually takes skill.
Honestly though I don't blame people for not liking games that look ugly. Graphics are a huge part of the experience. It's just a shame Blizzard catered to such a noob audience with sc2 to the point where the game feels boring for people who are used to a challenge.
On December 27 2011 23:17 FFGenerations wrote: ssoo excitde cnat spel klazzart rigght zomg1 :D
it is sad to know that kids arent growing up with ff7 anymore ;( i guess when WE become parents itll be up to us to introduce our kids to it and spawn a new generation. same with cartoons (if disney can do it..!)
The thing is, there's a generation of gamers that are already sad that there's a generation of gamers that considers FF7 the first seminal work in the Final Fantasy series that people should be sad that others will not grow up with.
FFIV and FFVI shaped my childhood. FF7 was like my SC2.
The SNES generation keeps mentioning FF4 and FF6, but never FF5. I've played through all FF games up to 12 and I never saw the greatness in FF4. I think it's a great game, but I don't think it's better than FF5. They are the two most similar games in the series, and the reason why the SNES generation keeps mentioning FF4 while neglecting FF5 is because of nostalgia. FF6 is a awesome game though. That game really set the bar high, but I think FF7 lived up to that. I know FF7 had flaws, mainly the dumbed down battle mechanics, but in terms of storyline FF7 was just great. It has the most complex story of the series to this day, and Sephiroth is the most interesting villain by far, and it's not just about the visuals. Sephiroth had layers. He had a interesting background, and his actions are very much an expression to who he was. That's something that was very groundbreaking. Most villains up to that point were just generic bad guys. I can say the same thing about Cloud, the main character. He was such a complex character.
I'm sorry, but I will never take a person bashing on FF7 seriously.
Anyway. Personally, the reason why I'm clinging to BW is because no game can replace it right now. I envy the SC2 players for being able to play a game that hasn't been figured out yet, but that's not enough for me to switch. SC2 just has nothing that appeals to me.
Usually people don't reminisce about FFV because it wasn't released in America in order. FFIV was FF2 and FFVI was FF3. Then it skipped to FF7. It's only been recently (relatively) that FFIII and FFV were actually released in America.
FF7 is a great game. But it's not the de facto best game in the series. It's widely considered to be that by people that didn't play Final Fantasy until FF7, which is why I drew some parallels to BW and SC2. FF6, I believe, is all-around the best Final Fantasy game. But I understand that involves a fair bit of my own opinion so I'm not going to try to convince anyone of that fact.
I'm just saying that a lot of the people that say FF7 is the best Final Fantasy say that because it was the first game they played in the series. All of that fits into what I said earlier in the thread, though...
On December 27 2011 22:43 writer22816 wrote: We don't play games like BW, CS 1.6, Quake, Fallout 1/2, PST, Baldur's Gate etc because of nostalgia. We play them because they're GREAT games, superior to most if not all of the games on the market today.
Labeling these games as outdated makes about as much sense as labeling classical music outdated. For that reason I also do not think we are the last generation.
Another question that I have often pondered about is: when will we start seeing games of BW-quality again? Given the recent trend of virtually all modern games being easy to play, targeted towards the casual gamer etc one cannot help but wonder if we will ever see a masterpiece like BW again. This issue is of course linked with the future of eSports as a whole. Personally I feel that, as video games lose their negative social stigma, and as the idea of competitive gaming becomes more accepted, eventually we will start seeing far more truly great games again.
Nowadays we get games that easily rival hollywood blockbusters, that allow you to connect and play with people all over the world in a relatively painless fashion (sorry but SC:BW's Battle.net interface is just disgusting).
SC:BW Battle.net interface is absolutly amazing, it is simple and efficient. This is one of the main reason of bw's success, you can find games in like 3s. You just lost all your credibility lol. I mean just take a look at bnet 2.0... haha
B.net 2.0: multiplayer --> search game, start playing against people of your level B.net 1.0: seach games, try to join, game already started/host left, refresh. Repeat ad nauseam until you finally get to play against someone of whom you had no idea how good he or she was.
If the interface was so amazing Blizzard would not have completely overhauled and redesigned it, don't you think? Unlike what some very vocal people may think, developers actually spend a lot of time researching and testing this stuff.
regardless if we are the last generation or not, I think it's less about nostalgia and because we see these great Koreans and are much more in awe at what they are able to do given the limits of the game. It is simply amazing!
Art directory and visual style have little to do with grapics engines. In that sence gaming sometimes devolved. Being new players on the gamingmarket and limmited grapical possibilities forced creativity in the past. It is not only gameplay that has become cookiecutter in most games. And it seems developers use generic templates for the base of storylines and characters how sad.
Don't worry. You are not the last generation. New people watch broodwar and id be damned if i had children that didnt mandatorily watch starcraft(kinda sarcasm)
Starcraft is a really really good rts. Its nice and economy oriented with cool spells and stuff and a rediculous skill cap.
Starcraft 2 is economy but also much more army engagement oriented..
Is one better than the other? To some, yes. To some, no. But people from sc2 hear how great bw was and how it is also statcraft and they watch. I dont think gameplay will die without old gamers dieing. Worstcase scenario: bw dies next century. So chill, read candide, and cultivate the bw you have
EPT
