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first and last generation at the same time, since a generation is ~30 years. But just because there are more casuals and mmos are general hardcore gamer magnets, or atleast have been, since the new free 2 pay (not a typo) system will make those people search different games again.
Anyway those hardcore gamers will still be there, and they will find older gamers and they will tell them about the good games from the past, and they will probably get them and play them and so it continues. Another point is, nostalgia packs, old games with a new price, so i think as long as there is communication the good old games will never fade and if you played one you want the rest.
ff8 was my first rpg, now i possess all parts before that.
Anyway blizzard games played this month, warcraft 1, warcraft 2, bw and sc2. And warcraft 1 is by far the hardest in multiplayer, bw is piece of cake against it. So i find this bw, sc2 battles quiet funny. Especially the bw is harder then sc2 thing, my opinion is a bit different on that point, but explaining would take to long. But like people said its natural to defend your game. Just like quitters will often just have hate for their old game they played so long.
I enjoy all game unimportant of age, if people only play old game they miss out on good new ones, if they only play new games they will miss on old ones. Though its hard to find good new ones, but to be honest in the past it was way harder to find good ones as they were thrown out like crazy.
Damn now this whole thread makes me want to play freespace 1 and 2 ...
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Nostalgia only really kicks in when you enjoy a game you liked before and had fond memories of it. Starcraft is an exceptionally well designed game, not that it has ever been shitty or anything. As young kids we tend to find ourselves enjoying games more than critique certain parts about it. Its been a long time since I've really enjoyed playing a game that wows me as I age (aside from jumping right into the next gen consoles at the beginning).
Its a little hard to get into SC now than before, with different expectations and standards in today's age, as well as with how UI is much more streamlined (though the SC UI wasn't bad, just limiting which you had to click and select each building to make units or can only select up to 12 units at any given time). Every game has its run before its generation "dies out" because there's no new blood in it, that's how games are like. One of the only viable ways to introduce new blood into an old game is for a remake to happen, in prettier graphics as well as miscellaneous factors that meets modern expectations.
Given how limiting and mechanically challenging BW was however, one cannot expect to remake the game with all of the core principles intact and expect it succeeding in the modern gaming era.
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No.
Every time an SC2 person does something BW related, there are a ton of SC2 people going "Oh wow, I didn't know BW was so cool", and like one or two people starts getting into it. Foreign BW has the most potential for growth it's ever had, if the community starts shilling it.
At some point, you grow out of the "shiny = good" mentality, and you start looking at old games more fairly. Some are amazing. Some were amazing for their time. Some were overhyped (I've been replaying the SC1 campaign, and it's actually kind of bad).
Besides, there's a growing trend of minimalism in games, which is why there are so many indie games doing well despite having not great graphics (Cave Story, Minecraft, Dwarf Fortress, off the top of my head). Graphics are advancing less and less, so inventive gameplay is becoming more important (Braid).
I think one of the more interesting things about the communities is how badly SC2 fans want SC2 to be BW. Not to replace it in popularity, but to literally emulate it as much as possible. They have a lot more respect for BW than you might assume, given all the trolls.
On December 28 2011 02:56 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2011 22:44 QooQ wrote:
I agree that gameplay > graphics, but a game with good graphics doesn't automatically mean it has shitty gameplay. I say just adapt to the times. 100% agree. I'd love blizzard to remake BW and give us two options when playing it Hardcore (with BW AI) and Softcore (with SC 2 AI), but with the same graphics and units
There's a mod for SC2 that does that. It's kind of fun.
On December 28 2011 10:21 Takkara wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 09:44 ninini wrote:On December 28 2011 01:37 Takkara wrote:On December 27 2011 23:17 FFGenerations wrote:
ssoo excitde cnat spel klazzart rigght zomg1 :D
it is sad to know that kids arent growing up with ff7 anymore ;( i guess when WE become parents itll be up to us to introduce our kids to it and spawn a new generation. same with cartoons (if disney can do it..!) The thing is, there's a generation of gamers that are already sad that there's a generation of gamers that considers FF7 the first seminal work in the Final Fantasy series that people should be sad that others will not grow up with. FFIV and FFVI shaped my childhood. FF7 was like my SC2. The SNES generation keeps mentioning FF4 and FF6, but never FF5. I've played through all FF games up to 12 and I never saw the greatness in FF4. I think it's a great game, but I don't think it's better than FF5. They are the two most similar games in the series, and the reason why the SNES generation keeps mentioning FF4 while neglecting FF5 is because of nostalgia. FF6 is a awesome game though. That game really set the bar high, but I think FF7 lived up to that. I know FF7 had flaws, mainly the dumbed down battle mechanics, but in terms of storyline FF7 was just great. It has the most complex story of the series to this day, and Sephiroth is the most interesting villain by far, and it's not just about the visuals. Sephiroth had layers. He had a interesting background, and his actions are very much an expression to who he was. That's something that was very groundbreaking. Most villains up to that point were just generic bad guys. I can say the same thing about Cloud, the main character. He was such a complex character. I'm sorry, but I will never take a person bashing on FF7 seriously. Anyway. Personally, the reason why I'm clinging to BW is because no game can replace it right now. I envy the SC2 players for being able to play a game that hasn't been figured out yet, but that's not enough for me to switch. SC2 just has nothing that appeals to me. Usually people don't reminisce about FFV because it wasn't released in America in order. FFIV was FF2 and FFVI was FF3. Then it skipped to FF7. It's only been recently (relatively) that FFIII and FFV were actually released in America. FF7 is a great game. But it's not the de facto best game in the series. It's widely considered to be that by people that didn't play Final Fantasy until FF7, which is why I drew some parallels to BW and SC2. FF6, I believe, is all-around the best Final Fantasy game. But I understand that involves a fair bit of my own opinion so I'm not going to try to convince anyone of that fact. I'm just saying that a lot of the people that say FF7 is the best Final Fantasy say that because it was the first game they played in the series. All of that fits into what I said earlier in the thread, though...
FF7's story was totally awesome when you were fifteen, though. Didn't make any goddamn sense, but it was kewl.
The Materia system, however, remains one of my favorite RPG gameplay mechanics ever. I can play FF7 however I want by customizing to a theme. Make Cloud a white mage and Aeris a Warrior, for instance. FF Tactics was also really good at the customization (less so the new Final Fantasy Tactics games). FF games didn't get bad until X-2, though 8 was pretty meh.
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I play BW because not because of graphics but because of the korean scene and how this game is appealing to me as an e-sport. It's the only RTS e-sport I recognize after the decline of WC3.
SC2, on the other-hand, didn't live up to me. It was over-hyped, balanced poorly/wrongly, and a subpar professional scene.
Nostalgia isn't even a factor because I play both old and new games alike and judge them of their appeal to me. Some, like me, doesn't like Baldur's Gate but I loved DA1 and SW:Kotor, I didn't like Diablo 1 but I loved Diablo 2 and eagerly waiting for Diablo 3(w/c I think will be bad, but thats another matter).
Nostalgia is an analogy used by hipsters against BW fans because they doesn't understand BW. I wouldn't be worried about us being the last generation because we won't What I do think is that SC2 won't have it's "last generation" when Blizzard treat the SC2 scene like what they did to BW when SC3 comes out.
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Gentleman and ladies, it is an honor to be in a dying cult with you all =)
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On December 28 2011 12:26 stork4ever wrote:
Gentleman and ladies, it is an honor to be in a dying cult with you all =)
We are a cult now?
:/
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i somehow see it as unlikely that this next generation will be all into the great classics, even the recent classics such as final fantasy. i feel like final fantasy isnt even popular anymore for kids
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On December 27 2011 22:43 writer22816 wrote:
We don't play games like BW, CS 1.6, Quake, Fallout 1/2, PST, Baldur's Gate etc because of nostalgia. We play them because they're GREAT games, superior to most if not all of the games on the market today.
Labeling these games as outdated makes about as much sense as labeling classical music outdated. For that reason I also do not think we are the last generation.
Another question that I have often pondered about is: when will we start seeing games of BW-quality again? Given the recent trend of virtually all modern games being easy to play, targeted towards the casual gamer etc one cannot help but wonder if we will ever see a masterpiece like BW again. This issue is of course linked with the future of eSports as a whole. Personally I feel that, as video games lose their negative social stigma, and as the idea of competitive gaming becomes more accepted, eventually we will start seeing far more truly great games again.
oh dude, dont remind me. F2 doesnt even work on my computer and F1 has graphical problems /sad
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This is a very nice thread.
My theory is: the game design is always limited by the available technology, in the past game designers were forced to put much more effort in the story and playability. They just had to make game itself interesting and unique to be competitive. The number of means of attracting people's attention is much bigger now, amongst them there are graphic engines, designers of the past would only dream of. Most serious drawback of having new shiny, awesome graphic engine, is the temptation to abuse it. You are not designing the game anymore, just produce a movie. And we are visual animals, easily attracted by the pictures and always ready to substitute our imagination with other's. Isn't it just fun to watch 2000 overlords covering the map? Moreover, what the game designers reporting to their bosses are supossed to show? Can they claim "You have more fun playing that", "This is hard to master, you will spend thousands of hours before you start to understand that","Look how well balanced it is". Or will they rather go "This is how our new world will look like". I don't think anyone can afford to care about the story as it was before. Until all the creatures are drawn, all worlds designed, all landscapes painted. Then we may return to "scenario" part.
Why do you play computer games? Some will like to feed their heads with new ideas, some will prefer to master ideas on their own. The former will play tons of different games, while the latter will stick to only few and explore them. It is like you either practice different sport every day, or decide to stick to running for a life. How can you call that "nostalgic"? Will you tell a runner "Hey, try basketball, it has more rules, and besides, it is a ball game" and then you will tell him to switch to paragliding, because views are better? Well, he can of course try, but if he returns to running afterwards, there is no way to call him nostalgic. And the fact that history of sports is over 2000 years old and history of games only little over 30 does not change anything.
There were only few games I played for a longer period of time. They were always challenging OR I could challenge myself with that game. It never had anything to do with the graphics (When I first saw SC it looked just ugly to me) or even game complexity (I am in world's Top 30 in playing Windows Speed Solitaire). There is something that makes you return to certain games - and that is perhaps nostalgia. But if you play it constantly, it is not nostalgia, just your sport.
AND there was nothing funnier than the title of the thread however. I have an unique perspective on that: I will be 40 next year  I lived every gaming revolution until now. I was "last" so many times, I don't care, so you shouldn't do either. Just enjoy your game, whatever it is.
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I'm going to teach my children how to play Starcraft. )
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On December 28 2011 12:26 stork4ever wrote:
Gentleman and ladies, it is an honor to be in a dying cult with you all =)
Which of the TaekBangLeeSsang is our god?
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On December 28 2011 13:14 JiYan wrote:
i somehow see it as unlikely that this next generation will be all into the great classics, even the recent classics such as final fantasy. i feel like final fantasy isnt even popular anymore for kids
That's because the new Final Fantasy games suck.
Anyway, kids never like the old stuff. That's inherent to kids always. It's not until you're older that you can look past dated graphics and enter the "hipster" phase where you like old things.
Why are we all Bill O'Reilly in this thread?
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On December 28 2011 15:00 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 13:14 JiYan wrote:
i somehow see it as unlikely that this next generation will be all into the great classics, even the recent classics such as final fantasy. i feel like final fantasy isnt even popular anymore for kids That's because the new Final Fantasy games suck. Anyway, kids never like the old stuff. That's inherent to kids always. It's not until you're older that you can look past dated graphics and enter the "hipster" phase where you like old things. Why are we all Bill O'Reilly in this thread?
I thought FFXIII got good reviews?
Anyways, I've always been partial to FF8 over FF7. FFX is nice too. Are they up to FFXIV now?
You know what makes me feel nostalgic? My Sega Genesis. I watched my grandparents play 1v1 Tetris on it when they lived here, and I spent so many hours trying to save the Pride Lands in this one Lion King game I had. I also have this other game where you play as Michael Jackson and dance to destroy your enemies with magic sparkles. Good times, good times.
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i dont know how FF got into this but, FFX was fucking awful, i've played all them until then, i just could'nt get past that one ...
...Yes FFVIII was not that good but, it was better than FFX, in FFX u know whats gonna happen since the beggining.
my top 3 FF:
1-FFVI
2-FF9
3-FF7
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
what the.... why these topics still appear.(
If the people will be still normal and not with heads full of sh**, they WILL be always able to value the quality of the game of Starcraft : Brood War. One side is the consumer society, which is bad and which makes people to be "consumers", to consume games in a oh-hey-there-s-a-new-game-i-must-play-it-asap way instead of truly mastering them, even if it shrinks the number of games that you play. But the other side is... you just must believe in people, because not all of them are just "cells" of consumer society, even children, whose brains are being washed with 100500 tons of shouting advertisements at each corner of space/time, they too can be still normal people who have normal ability to be interested/master something.
If you show a person how to play chess and he sees that it's an unique game, he will learn how to play and like it. Same with SC:BW. If you just show it to person of no matter what generation and he sees that it's unrepeatable too, he too will learn and like it. It's one of the most "sportive" games ever. And among RTS it's probably The most.
And people like competition, they like to overcome difficulties too, you know. They in the DEEP of their soul like this MORE than "cool graphic", okay if you tell them 100500 times "you must like graphics" they will "like" it, but competition is an INSTINCT. It's always deeper and more real. And the game which gives more chance to compete with enemies... and with yourself... is better.
So.
PEOPLE
Y U NO JUST PLAY THE GAME YOU LIKE AND TELL EVERYONE HOW GOOD IT IS instead of predicting its downfall?
sincerely yours, Quasar.
P.S.: SC:BW ~= chess + poker in real-time.  As I always say. (TvT = maximum chess, ZvZ/PvP = maximum poker)
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On December 28 2011 15:16 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 15:00 Ribbon wrote:On December 28 2011 13:14 JiYan wrote:
i somehow see it as unlikely that this next generation will be all into the great classics, even the recent classics such as final fantasy. i feel like final fantasy isnt even popular anymore for kids That's because the new Final Fantasy games suck. Anyway, kids never like the old stuff. That's inherent to kids always. It's not until you're older that you can look past dated graphics and enter the "hipster" phase where you like old things. Why are we all Bill O'Reilly in this thread? I thought FFXIII got good reviews?
FF13 was 25 hours of running in a literal straight line, and the combat literally had an auto-pilot option.
Anyways, I've always been partial to FF8 over FF7. FFX is nice too. Are they up to FFXIV now?
Yeah, but it's another MMO and apparently really bad? Like, they outsourced the game to China so you stop getting EXP if you play for more than two hours at a time and all the text in the Japanese version only used Chinese characters even when it was awkward-sounding and thus Chocobos were called Horsebirds, which is as silly in Japanese as it is in English. They might have fixed that by release, though.
In terms of RPGs, FF is a tarnished franchise. I've always been partial to Suikoden (Suikoden II = Best PS1 RPG), and the Persona series has gotten popular lately for good reason.
You know what makes me feel nostalgic? My Sega Genesis. I watched my grandparents play 1v1 Tetris on it when they lived here, and I spent so many hours trying to save the Pride Lands in this one Lion King game I had. I also have this other game where you play as Michael Jackson and dance to destroy your enemies with magic sparkles. Good times, good times.
I just bought Shining Force 2 on Steam. Game was the shit, yo.
On December 28 2011 15:42 _Quasar_ wrote:
what the.... why these topics still appear.(
If the people will be still normal and not with heads full of sh**, they WILL be always able to value the quality of the game of Starcraft : Brood War. One side is the consumer society, which is bad and which makes people to be "consumers", to consume games in a oh-hey-there-s-a-new-game-i-must-play-it-asap way instead of truly mastering them, even if it shrinks the number of games that you play. But the other side is... you just must believe in people, because not all of them are just "cells" of consumer society, even children, whose brains are being washed with 100500 tons of shouting advertisements at each corner of space/time, they too can be still normal people who have normal ability to be interested/master something.
If you show a person how to play chess and he sees that it's an unique game, he will learn how to play and like it. Same with SC:BW. If you just show it to person of no matter what generation and he sees that it's unrepeatable too, he too will learn and like it. It's one of the most "sportive" games ever. And among RTS it's probably The most.
I think one big flaw in that analogy is that Chess fans don't refer to Checkers fans as shitheads.
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On December 28 2011 15:16 babylon wrote:You know what makes me feel nostalgic? My Sega Genesis. I watched my grandparents play 1v1 Tetris on it when they lived here, and I spent so many hours trying to save the Pride Lands in this one Lion King game I had. I also have this other game where you play as Michael Jackson and dance to destroy your enemies with magic sparkles. Good times, good times. Heck yes, mine (my brother's) is sitting in my closet completely ready to go with SSF2 in it and a few other carts beside it for when I feel like playing some Sonic or whatnot (good Sonic, not that garbage they've put out since Adventure).
It always saddens me to think (though I am lucky) that realistically, people born the year I was, 1992 (perhaps 1993 as well) are the last people to actually get to experience the magic that was the NES when it wasn't a completely obsolete machine (IE: you could still rent games for it or buy games from stores new). I totally remember playing it when I was 3 and it was AWESOME. I was horrible at Super Mario Bros. 3 but that didn't stop me from playing it every day. Same with Blades of Steel. I don't even like hockey but I love that game. I still have fun playing it to this day. There was something so simple yet so cool about the NES, and old games in general that just feels lost in modern day games.
Too many modern games make things too complicated but at the same time are too easy, they throw a new feature at you constantly but at no point do they actually make you struggle. Old games were simple in concept but could be really hard in execution. Think of Contra. In concept it was a simple side scrolling shooter but it was difficult in practice, not because it had bad controls or anything that is frequently blames nowadays, but because it was supposed to be hard (Partly due to some games being based of arcade games).
This idea even applies to modern shooters. Prior to November 5th, 2007 (hint hint), most shooters limited your available options when it came to weapons etc. and this made the game a lot more fun because it was skill based, not time based (Time based meaning if you sink more time in you get an upper hand from unlocks instead of actually getting good at the game). Honestly, since CoD4 came out and introduced all that perk stuff, I haven't enjoyed a multiplayer shooter. None of them can compare to games like MOH:AA or BF1942, where players won by being good, not by having an upgrade that made it so they dropped a grenade each time they died or upgrades that made their weapons do more damage than everyone else's, simply because they spent more time playing.
I guess this is why I, and many others here I'm sure, like Starcraft and why I used to be a SF4 player. There are no advantages, you either win or lose based on your own skill.
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I prefer SC2 to Broodwar but anyone who says "lol you only like x game more than it's sequel because of nostalgia" is a complete idiot. It really surprises me how many of these people I see on various gaming sites. There are legitimate reasons to like BW more than SC2 or most old games over their sequels.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
Most of my favourite games of all time are old school classics. BW, Mario Bros, Mario Kart, Unreal Tournament, Diablo 1&2, FF4&6, Chrono Trigger, Baldur's Gate series....etc. They all have a special place in my heart. Now that doesn't mean I don't enjoy or even love the newer generation of video games or that they're necessarily worse. However, they just don't leave the same impression and lasting shine in my memory and heart. I guess that's something natural though since I was much more impressionable during my formative years. I'm sure a lot of the young kids growing up now will forever treasure their time with SC2, MW, DA:O....etc and that's just how it is.
Still, I sincerely hope that more and more young gamers discover some of the old classics and experience them as I had. Changing times doesn't mean history should be forgotten especially when it's so bloody good.
edit: Oh and to answer the question: no. We may be a dying breed in the shifting sands of time, but as long as there are those willing to try out the past, and those who are willing to tell them about it, it'll forever live on.
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EPT
