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On December 27 2011 22:44 QooQ wrote:
I agree that gameplay > graphics, but a game with good graphics doesn't automatically mean it has shitty gameplay. I say just adapt to the times.
100% agree.
I'd love blizzard to remake BW and give us two options when playing it Hardcore (with BW AI) and Softcore (with SC 2 AI), but with the same graphics and units
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Why can´t it be both?
Why do people always have to be: Its either A or B.
BW is a fantastic game, nostalgia may help people ignore some of the flaws.
Same with people who like newer games, its not them being blinded by shiny graphics or ¨just don´t know better¨ Maybe they genuinely like new games.
People are complex, its stupid to summarize their reasoning into simple stuff.
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I get nostalgia playing KOEI games for the SNES... and maybe quake 1(quakeworld)... I remember actually trying to explain to ppl when i was 13 that the mouse was far superior to arrow key aiming... It just wasn't included in games until then.
I am pretty sure I can hum the Romance of the 3 Kingdoms 3 still.... summers wasted renting that game when I could have bought it 100 times over.
Other than that... I just expect newer, faster, prettier, more efficient games... That's the way the world works... It bugs me that ppl get stuck in "time periods(pockets)" and never want to let go. Ya, it was nice, but let go... The world is changing and so should you 
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On December 28 2011 01:37 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 00:33 maartendq wrote:On December 27 2011 22:43 writer22816 wrote:
We don't play games like BW, CS 1.6, Quake, Fallout 1/2, PST, Baldur's Gate etc because of nostalgia. We play them because they're GREAT games, superior to most if not all of the games on the market today.
Labeling these games as outdated makes about as much sense as labeling classical music outdated. For that reason I also do not think we are the last generation.
Another question that I have often pondered about is: when will we start seeing games of BW-quality again? Given the recent trend of virtually all modern games being easy to play, targeted towards the casual gamer etc one cannot help but wonder if we will ever see a masterpiece like BW again. This issue is of course linked with the future of eSports as a whole. Personally I feel that, as video games lose their negative social stigma, and as the idea of competitive gaming becomes more accepted, eventually we will start seeing far more truly great games again. Nowadays we get games that easily rival hollywood blockbusters, that allow you to connect and play with people all over the world in a relatively painless fashion ( sorry but SC:BW's Battle.net interface is just disgusting). SC:BW Battle.net interface is absolutly amazing, it is simple and efficient. This is one of the main reason of bw's success, you can find games in like 3s. You just lost all your credibility lol. I mean just take a look at bnet 2.0... haha
B.net 2.0: multiplayer --> search game, start playing against people of your level
B.net 1.0: seach games, try to join, game already started/host left, refresh. Repeat ad nauseam until you finally get to play against someone of whom you had no idea how good he or she was.
If the interface was so amazing Blizzard would not have completely overhauled and redesigned it, don't you think? Unlike what some very vocal people may think, developers actually spend a lot of time researching and testing this stuff.
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On December 28 2011 03:09 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 01:37 Boblion wrote:On December 28 2011 00:33 maartendq wrote:On December 27 2011 22:43 writer22816 wrote:
We don't play games like BW, CS 1.6, Quake, Fallout 1/2, PST, Baldur's Gate etc because of nostalgia. We play them because they're GREAT games, superior to most if not all of the games on the market today.
Labeling these games as outdated makes about as much sense as labeling classical music outdated. For that reason I also do not think we are the last generation.
Another question that I have often pondered about is: when will we start seeing games of BW-quality again? Given the recent trend of virtually all modern games being easy to play, targeted towards the casual gamer etc one cannot help but wonder if we will ever see a masterpiece like BW again. This issue is of course linked with the future of eSports as a whole. Personally I feel that, as video games lose their negative social stigma, and as the idea of competitive gaming becomes more accepted, eventually we will start seeing far more truly great games again. Nowadays we get games that easily rival hollywood blockbusters, that allow you to connect and play with people all over the world in a relatively painless fashion ( sorry but SC:BW's Battle.net interface is just disgusting). SC:BW Battle.net interface is absolutly amazing, it is simple and efficient. This is one of the main reason of bw's success, you can find games in like 3s. You just lost all your credibility lol. I mean just take a look at bnet 2.0... haha B.net 2.0: multiplayer --> search game, start playing against people of your level B.net 1.0: seach games, try to join, game already started/host left, refresh. Repeat ad nauseam until you finally get to play against someone of whom you had no idea how good he or she was. If the interface was so amazing Blizzard would not have completely overhauled and redesigned it, don't you think? Unlike what some very vocal people may think, developers actually spend a lot of time researching and testing this stuff.
I'm pretty sure I take less time to find a game at D level than I did when I used to play sc2, being able to make is a useful talent toi have.
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The ladder system is fine ( even if the division system is shitty ) but everything else from custom to team games is absolutly atrocious. You can't create and name your game, the only maps played are on the top of the list ( and hence it is always the same lol ), took them 6 months to make chat channels and they are still way too small since the whole ui is cluttered with all the "achievements".
Your problem with SC:BW is the lack of a ladder sytem with match making which is completly different of the overall interface.
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On December 28 2011 03:09 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 01:37 Boblion wrote:On December 28 2011 00:33 maartendq wrote:On December 27 2011 22:43 writer22816 wrote:
We don't play games like BW, CS 1.6, Quake, Fallout 1/2, PST, Baldur's Gate etc because of nostalgia. We play them because they're GREAT games, superior to most if not all of the games on the market today.
Labeling these games as outdated makes about as much sense as labeling classical music outdated. For that reason I also do not think we are the last generation.
Another question that I have often pondered about is: when will we start seeing games of BW-quality again? Given the recent trend of virtually all modern games being easy to play, targeted towards the casual gamer etc one cannot help but wonder if we will ever see a masterpiece like BW again. This issue is of course linked with the future of eSports as a whole. Personally I feel that, as video games lose their negative social stigma, and as the idea of competitive gaming becomes more accepted, eventually we will start seeing far more truly great games again. Nowadays we get games that easily rival hollywood blockbusters, that allow you to connect and play with people all over the world in a relatively painless fashion ( sorry but SC:BW's Battle.net interface is just disgusting). SC:BW Battle.net interface is absolutly amazing, it is simple and efficient. This is one of the main reason of bw's success, you can find games in like 3s. You just lost all your credibility lol. I mean just take a look at bnet 2.0... haha B.net 2.0: multiplayer --> search game, start playing against people of your level B.net 1.0: seach games, try to join, game already started/host left, refresh. Repeat ad nauseam until you finally get to play against someone of whom you had no idea how good he or she was. If the interface was so amazing Blizzard would not have completely overhauled and redesigned it, don't you think? Unlike what some very vocal people may think, developers actually spend a lot of time researching and testing this stuff.
If deep thought and research led to facebook integration, increased delay and lan removal; they might be better off doing less of that.
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Unfortunately As a Kid I played WoW and before that Runescape... but now after being top masters on SC2 and been playing since beta, I actually wish I grew up on broodwar because I Love the game but not many people are interested in it anymore, the only broodwar i played Presc2 was the demo lol..
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Actually I once felt the same way about half a decade ago when new games kept coming out with the latest graphics and people kept arguing about how a game sucks as the graphics engines of older games became outdated. One of these people includes one of my seniors who was definitely better than the average scrub in whichever game he took up.
However, think about how this effect works in a more global fashion - movies, models etc. Fame goes to the better looking or at least the more appealing and accessible. Bieber, Twilight can be named as extreme examples.
On topic of games, the contemporaries of SC and CS might have similarly looked down upon other games:
Console games which were the "future" and "past" of that time were revived by injecting huge amounts of money and what I think is artificial demand for machines that had to be sold separately from the jack-of-all-trades PC and revive the TV (hardware) industry.
Rogue-like games (I played ADOM and thoroughly enjoyed it) like Nethack may have been similarly viewed by the "cool" gamers of the time with titles such as Quake 1 and 2 and Dark Reign 1 & 2 and Red Alert/Tiberian series. These have ASCII characters as the player and the enemies and work on a DnD like mechanism (just fyi, I'm pretty sure most will know).
How about browser games? I was once asked by a puzzled cybercafe cashier as to why my friend and I were playing TR (a well-moderated and re-balanced version of the old Archmage) in said cybercafe (the unsaid being that all the games they had available were so visually pleasing and modern).
Then again, how about sports? Today's "gamers" are stereotyped to be the antithesis of sports, yet many train physically (like programers) and reap the benefits of a healthy body. Would you say soccer is an outdated sport? How about petanque, or horseriding? The latter certainly has become more of a niche culture. Has pop music taken over classical, or breakdancing over ballet? To a certain extent, that which is more readily popular and "hip" will supplant the old, but only as long as the fad lasts. When tested with time, the games and activities with quality, difficulty and room for expansion and expression will tend to have the last laugh.
That being said, I vaguely remember one game developer saying that great games should fulfil 4 criteria, the first 2 i remembered were 1) easy to learn and 2) hard to master. Perhaps the essential components of a great game, when boiled down, transcend the superficial graphics and build a history around the following that sees past such fickle and ever-improving aspects.
Also hi from SG! *waves*
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On December 28 2011 03:09 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 01:37 Boblion wrote:On December 28 2011 00:33 maartendq wrote:On December 27 2011 22:43 writer22816 wrote:
We don't play games like BW, CS 1.6, Quake, Fallout 1/2, PST, Baldur's Gate etc because of nostalgia. We play them because they're GREAT games, superior to most if not all of the games on the market today.
Labeling these games as outdated makes about as much sense as labeling classical music outdated. For that reason I also do not think we are the last generation.
Another question that I have often pondered about is: when will we start seeing games of BW-quality again? Given the recent trend of virtually all modern games being easy to play, targeted towards the casual gamer etc one cannot help but wonder if we will ever see a masterpiece like BW again. This issue is of course linked with the future of eSports as a whole. Personally I feel that, as video games lose their negative social stigma, and as the idea of competitive gaming becomes more accepted, eventually we will start seeing far more truly great games again. Nowadays we get games that easily rival hollywood blockbusters, that allow you to connect and play with people all over the world in a relatively painless fashion ( sorry but SC:BW's Battle.net interface is just disgusting). SC:BW Battle.net interface is absolutly amazing, it is simple and efficient. This is one of the main reason of bw's success, you can find games in like 3s. You just lost all your credibility lol. I mean just take a look at bnet 2.0... haha B.net 2.0: multiplayer --> search game, start playing against people of your level B.net 1.0: seach games, try to join, game already started/host left, refresh. Repeat ad nauseam until you finally get to play against someone of whom you had no idea how good he or she was. If the interface was so amazing Blizzard would not have completely overhauled and redesigned it, don't you think? Unlike what some very vocal people may think, developers actually spend a lot of time researching and testing this stuff.
BNet "2" is one of the crappiest online interfaces I've ever seen. Horrible custom game interface, bad chat functionality, idiotic league system (completely intransparent for competitive players, yet still frustrating for casuals), no clan support, no online replays, and so on.
There are a bunch of games that predate SC2, which have arguably (in most cases unarguably) better interfaces: BW (it only lacks AMM), WC3, Armies of Exigo, Age of Mythology, AoE3, HoN. I'm sure there's couple more.
BNet 2 is a significant downgrade from BNet 1 in almost every regard...
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Oh ya lets not forget that there are also many terribad games in the olden age. Just as there are awesome games right now.
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To those hipsters that say today's games does not compare to the old ones, try:
1) Portal 1/2
2) Skyrim
3) Half-life 2
4) Braid
...and some others that I won't mention for those might be debatable. These four however, does not give an inch to the best of the best games of the history.
Do it if you are tired of the Modern Warfares and Halos, and truly want to play a modern masterpiece. Now if what you want is not a good gaming experience, but a crap covered in sweet, sweet nostalgia and nothing post-2000 will ever satisfy your unhealthy obcession for the old, then I suggest Frogs.
Games from our childhood are NOT better than those coming out nowadays. When you compare BroodWar/Ocarina of time/Final Fantasy 7/other masterpieces from the past to Call of Duty/Final Fantasy 13/other crap game what you are doing is comparing the yesteryear's best to today's worst. Not a fair comparison if you ask me.
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I'm going to force my kids to play brood war no matter what.
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I suspect that we'll see a reversion. Right now, graphics are increasingly good increasingly fast, so they are the most impressive thing to wow people with. But at some point, graphics will be practically – not indistinguishable, but "good enough" – and there will be stability where gameplay comes to the front again, at least until the next wave of innovation.
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I came to BW pretty damn late(around 2010).
I certainly don't play it out of nostalgia. I pretty much started during a time when SC2 was right around the corner.
Graphics are always nice, but they're definitely no substitute for good gameplay. I personally like the cartoon-like nature of BW units in that they look nice and are easily distinguished.
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I dont think that will ever see those awesome games again, just cause nowdays the market plays a bigger role in game desing, they make games for noobs, i mean BG first time i played i sucked so much, i had never played D&D before, i wasnt used to play games that requiere to quicksave after every fight, an average guy(yes you mainstream character) would quit the game right there just cause it may be too hard.
The only way to see these kind of games again is have a company or brand that says fuck the sales i'll make a real game, from what i've seen the only ones that do something like that are indie developers...
EDIT:
BLACK ISLE I NEED U ='(
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Im 14 and i play brood war. Though im the only one who plays older hard games (or even rts games) in my school there are younger people who does enjoy gameplay over graphics  . Its sad though what you say is true kids theese days man they only play easy games. IMO they could atleast play quake instead if they shall play fps .
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I've seen several post here that claim that they are better than the average gamer because they play older and so harder game. I'm not sure this is entirely true.
Sure Call of Duty/Halo/PES/Fifa suck, but they're not the game of an entire generation. Warcraft 3 isn't easy and have an amazing interface. Skyrim is great. Portal 1/2 are great. GW is supa supa good!
Also sorry but BG is only hard if you don't know how to abuse the game, like every single rpg.
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I have just started playing deux ex for the first time in my life. Its old. I didn´t hear about it until just recently. I know of no one that has ever played it. Its one of the most amazing games i have ever tried.
Nostalgia is great, but has little or nothing to do with BW being an amazing game.
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The current industry is all about graphics, ask all your IRL friends and they will tell you that MW3 is far far superior than quake because it's better looking and has nice guns and likewise arguments.
I still think there will be good games because there is much more money around the video games industry in general, just look at Dota 2, it looks promising.
Also, I love Klazart, he made me fall in love with competitve BW and become a sAviOr fan.
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EPT
