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On December 29 2011 19:09 OrangeSoda wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 18:45 Daozzt wrote:On December 29 2011 18:31 hitthat wrote:On December 29 2011 07:28 ninini wrote:
When ppl are saying SC2 is eye candy they are not saying that they dislike it because of the graphics, they are implying that graphics is all it's got, and that the actual gameplay is bad. Starcraft might have been considered eye candy back in the day, but it also had substance.
Everything about SC2 is worse than BW. It has terrible unit physics (movements). Compare how a group of zerglings moves in the different games. The BW zerglings are much more realistic to how they would move in a real battlefield. The graphics in SC2 are advanced but poorly made, I mean you can barely distinguish individual units. There are also less tactical units in SC2, and the tactical units is what makes BW so great.
BW is just better in all aspects, including physics, graphics and gameplay. Am I the only one that thinks graphic in SC2 is NOT even that good, even if we take RTS standards into consideration? After CoH and DoW2, SC2 looks just ugly. Hell, Supreme Commander is not worse than SC2 with its graphics. No, I'm not trolling anyone, thats exacly what my opinion is! In the contrast, SC2 single player is MORE fun. Missions are more difficult and diversed than those from BW [all cheese scenario and warcraftesque shit like "good corrupted overmind" doesnt take the good impresion] The graphics of SC2 aren't impressive, but they aren't bad enough that they will turn off newer players. Despite what people say about graphics, it is the main reason why nobody new plays or watches the Brood War. Younger kids nowadays think games like FF7 or BW look like shit because they grew up with ps2 or xbox as their first gaming console, and cannot appreciate good games with dated graphics. Main reason why no one watches brood war? you are a funny guy. You are correct about the graphics being outdated, considering the game is over a decade old, but really you think the main reason is the graphics? The main reason no one watches broodwar is because its casted at awful times for NA and EU, oh and its casted in Korean, good luck getting anyone into a game when its only catered to koreans. Also what are the chances someone bothers to pick up a game made in 98, or any game from the 90s. your BW elitism is terrible, you play broodwar so you look down upon anyone that doesn't play it? I remember back in the day when we poked eachother with sticks because thats all there was! now kids these days got all these gizmos and gadgets! they can't even apperciate a good stick poking now!
I watched a 2009 game of Jaedong vs Fantasy on youtube this morning. If it weren't for the fact that I've pretty much watched all the gomTV classic games a year or two ago, I wouldn't have known what was going on since the game was cast in Korean. Tasteless is pretty much the main reason why I got into starcraft (and to an extent still is the main reason why I still watch tournaments like MLG and Dreamhack).
The game itself was awesome and beyond anything you see in SC2, but I don't see a lot of people picking up Brood War anymore. The game is almost fifteen years old and hardly popular outside of korea or Teamliquid.net.
Then again, I find it hard to fire up any game besides Skyrim nowadays. My other xbox games are collecting dust. I only play once or twice a week anymore due to school and other activities anyway, but when I do, it's an hour or two hours of skyrim, which quite matches Morrowind in terms of stuff to discover and lore to be learned. Bethesda's done a really great job on this one, which could not be said of Oblivion (that game was graphics > gameplay all the way). Skyrim is the perfect example of a modern game done right. It's receiving GOTY awards left and right, and rightfully so.
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On December 27 2011 22:44 QooQ wrote:
I agree that gameplay > graphics, but a game with good graphics doesn't automatically mean it has shitty gameplay. I say just adapt to the times.
No, but when production value is spent on graphics rather than anything else, you get what you get. This is, of course, assuming a constant production value, which if course will differ between games and studios.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
Respect to those in this thread who said that they will (or actually do now) teach their children to play Starcraft. \m/_
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[/QUOTE]
Bethesda's done a really great job on this one, which could not be said of Oblivion (that game was graphics > gameplay all the way). Skyrim is the perfect example of a modern game done right. It's receiving GOTY awards left and right, and rightfully so.[/QUOTE]
If Skyrim only had a better UI -.- I hate it so much, its like Battlenet 2.0.
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i liked skyrim even less than oblivion  you cant even make your own spells, the magic system was so weak. was so bummed that they removed attributes completely too.
honestly, oblivion held my attention for longer than skyrim
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On December 29 2011 19:55 Daozzt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 19:09 OrangeSoda wrote:On December 29 2011 18:45 Daozzt wrote:On December 29 2011 18:31 hitthat wrote:On December 29 2011 07:28 ninini wrote:
When ppl are saying SC2 is eye candy they are not saying that they dislike it because of the graphics, they are implying that graphics is all it's got, and that the actual gameplay is bad. Starcraft might have been considered eye candy back in the day, but it also had substance.
Everything about SC2 is worse than BW. It has terrible unit physics (movements). Compare how a group of zerglings moves in the different games. The BW zerglings are much more realistic to how they would move in a real battlefield. The graphics in SC2 are advanced but poorly made, I mean you can barely distinguish individual units. There are also less tactical units in SC2, and the tactical units is what makes BW so great.
BW is just better in all aspects, including physics, graphics and gameplay. Am I the only one that thinks graphic in SC2 is NOT even that good, even if we take RTS standards into consideration? After CoH and DoW2, SC2 looks just ugly. Hell, Supreme Commander is not worse than SC2 with its graphics. No, I'm not trolling anyone, thats exacly what my opinion is! In the contrast, SC2 single player is MORE fun. Missions are more difficult and diversed than those from BW [all cheese scenario and warcraftesque shit like "good corrupted overmind" doesnt take the good impresion] The graphics of SC2 aren't impressive, but they aren't bad enough that they will turn off newer players. Despite what people say about graphics, it is the main reason why nobody new plays or watches the Brood War. Younger kids nowadays think games like FF7 or BW look like shit because they grew up with ps2 or xbox as their first gaming console, and cannot appreciate good games with dated graphics. Main reason why no one watches brood war? you are a funny guy. You are correct about the graphics being outdated, considering the game is over a decade old, but really you think the main reason is the graphics? The main reason no one watches broodwar is because its casted at awful times for NA and EU, oh and its casted in Korean, good luck getting anyone into a game when its only catered to koreans. Also what are the chances someone bothers to pick up a game made in 98, or any game from the 90s. your BW elitism is terrible, you play broodwar so you look down upon anyone that doesn't play it? I remember back in the day when we poked eachother with sticks because thats all there was! now kids these days got all these gizmos and gadgets! they can't even apperciate a good stick poking now! How is that elitist at all? New players don't play dated games because they are turned off because to them, the game looks like garbage and they can't see past the dated textures. How you can deny that is beyond me. If you gave a kid who grew up playing halo a gameboy color, he'd probably toss it in the trash. The only people who appreciate old games for their quality are older gamers 90% of the time (obviously).
I grew up playing NES as my first gaming system, and i would probably toss a gameboy color in the trash too, its old, get with the times. I remember playing pokemon blue on the big fat gameboy that had no color. If someone gave it to me now i wouldn't touch it. It was the best we had at the time, but now there is better. You said it yourself " New players don't play dated games because they are turned off because to them, the game looks like garbage". Graphics are not everything, but when you compare a gameboy or any old system to what we have acess to now, its an easy choice. Everyone in this thread references old classic games and always compare it to CoD, when in reality there are a bunch of great games that have been made in the past few years.
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On December 29 2011 20:03 c3rberUs wrote:
I think the whole "you play BW because of nostalgia" thing is wrong. Nostalgia describes a yearning for the past and yet here we are playing/watching the game along with thousands of others in the present. In short, nope its not nostalgia, its fun.
None of them knows what the definition of nostalgia is.
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On December 29 2011 20:42 heynes wrote:
Bethesda's done a really great job on this one, which could not be said of Oblivion (that game was graphics > gameplay all the way). Skyrim is the perfect example of a modern game done right. It's receiving GOTY awards left and right, and rightfully so.[/QUOTE]
If Skyrim only had a better UI -.- I hate it so much, its like Battlenet 2.0.[/QUOTE]
I play it on the Xbox360, so the UI doesn't bother me at all, on the contrary.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
The success of Minecraft, and the (relative) failure of Crisis says no. Why would people nowadays not care about gameplay anymore?
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The BW graphics are a bit shocking if you've only played SC2. After watching a couple of games, though, and after you adjust to the GIANT GEYSERS AND SUPPLY DEPOTS, you start to see why BW is a great game. I play SC2 and mainly watch SC2, but I definitely see the appeal of BW.
Idra was recently interviewed and he said that BW is a superior game (at least at this juncture) because the skill ceiling is SO HIGH that the better player almost always wins. From a purely competitve standpoint I agree with him. However, I believe that as SC2 players develop, we will see new techniques that separate the really good players from the BEST players. I do not believe the deathball will reign forever.
As for developers focusing on casual games, they go where the money is. I recommend Demon's Souls and Dark Souls to console gamers looking for a game that rewards skill.
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On December 29 2011 20:57 OrangeSoda wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 19:55 Daozzt wrote:On December 29 2011 19:09 OrangeSoda wrote:On December 29 2011 18:45 Daozzt wrote:On December 29 2011 18:31 hitthat wrote:On December 29 2011 07:28 ninini wrote:
When ppl are saying SC2 is eye candy they are not saying that they dislike it because of the graphics, they are implying that graphics is all it's got, and that the actual gameplay is bad. Starcraft might have been considered eye candy back in the day, but it also had substance.
Everything about SC2 is worse than BW. It has terrible unit physics (movements). Compare how a group of zerglings moves in the different games. The BW zerglings are much more realistic to how they would move in a real battlefield. The graphics in SC2 are advanced but poorly made, I mean you can barely distinguish individual units. There are also less tactical units in SC2, and the tactical units is what makes BW so great.
BW is just better in all aspects, including physics, graphics and gameplay. Am I the only one that thinks graphic in SC2 is NOT even that good, even if we take RTS standards into consideration? After CoH and DoW2, SC2 looks just ugly. Hell, Supreme Commander is not worse than SC2 with its graphics. No, I'm not trolling anyone, thats exacly what my opinion is! In the contrast, SC2 single player is MORE fun. Missions are more difficult and diversed than those from BW [all cheese scenario and warcraftesque shit like "good corrupted overmind" doesnt take the good impresion] The graphics of SC2 aren't impressive, but they aren't bad enough that they will turn off newer players. Despite what people say about graphics, it is the main reason why nobody new plays or watches the Brood War. Younger kids nowadays think games like FF7 or BW look like shit because they grew up with ps2 or xbox as their first gaming console, and cannot appreciate good games with dated graphics. Main reason why no one watches brood war? you are a funny guy. You are correct about the graphics being outdated, considering the game is over a decade old, but really you think the main reason is the graphics? The main reason no one watches broodwar is because its casted at awful times for NA and EU, oh and its casted in Korean, good luck getting anyone into a game when its only catered to koreans. Also what are the chances someone bothers to pick up a game made in 98, or any game from the 90s. your BW elitism is terrible, you play broodwar so you look down upon anyone that doesn't play it? I remember back in the day when we poked eachother with sticks because thats all there was! now kids these days got all these gizmos and gadgets! they can't even apperciate a good stick poking now! How is that elitist at all? New players don't play dated games because they are turned off because to them, the game looks like garbage and they can't see past the dated textures. How you can deny that is beyond me. If you gave a kid who grew up playing halo a gameboy color, he'd probably toss it in the trash. The only people who appreciate old games for their quality are older gamers 90% of the time (obviously). I grew up playing NES as my first gaming system, and i would probably toss a gameboy color in the trash too, its old, get with the times. I remember playing pokemon blue on the big fat gameboy that had no color. If someone gave it to me now i wouldn't touch it. It was the best we had at the time, but now there is better. You said it yourself " New players don't play dated games because they are turned off because to them, the game looks like garbage". Graphics are not everything, but when you compare a gameboy or any old system to what we have acess to now, its an easy choice. Everyone in this thread references old classic games and always compare it to CoD, when in reality there are a bunch of great games that have been made in the past few years.
Lmao, way to quote what I said and actually not read it. I said to THEM, it looks like shit, but for older people that have played it and and know that it's a great game, they don't care about graphics. There's nothing wrong with playing old games that are good, and there's no need to "get with the times". I would rather much sit down and play Ocarina of Time on the N64 than play Wii tennis or whatever the fuck comes out nowadays.
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Old games were better, I don't really care for nostalgia, patiently waiting in front of my tv, waiting for the thunderbirds to start or my old Atari is what I might consider nostalgic.
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On December 30 2011 03:59 Mr. Black wrote:
The BW graphics are a bit shocking if you've only played SC2. After watching a couple of games, though, and after you adjust to the GIANT GEYSERS AND SUPPLY DEPOTS, you start to see why BW is a great game. I play SC2 and mainly watch SC2, but I definitely see the appeal of BW.
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And the other way around as well. I hadn't watched sc2 for some time until today and the difference in design is big.
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BTW: Nostalgia is when you played BW 10 years ago and think the campaign was really amazing when in fact it has a lot of flaws you forgot about.
Nostalgia is not when you've been doing something religiously for years and still like it.
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Can you really blame the kids for not wanting to play some game like FF7 after playing Mass effect 2? FF7 my favourite game of all time, but I don't blame my cousin for not wanting to play it after he has played a game with 300000x better graphics and that's also VERY good. I started watching SC2 and then I got into BW, and I love it. But I'm used to seeing old graphics, to me BW is still a good looking game because I started playing when games were 2 rectangles and 1 square bouncing around in a screen.
Also, I've forgotten about all the bad games I've played on my PS one. But I remember a lot of those from PS3, simply because they are fresher on my mind. Time will pass and I'll forget them too, leaving a false idea that PS3 is a godlike console with only great games.
Another thing is, with platforms like steam, bad games stay a for a lot longer on the market, but in 1998, I wouldn't even get in touch with most of them, because they were not sold long enough for me to reach them.
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There's also, I think, a limit to how many games you can squeeze out of one particular concept. Especially single player games. A later game may do the same thing better, but it's the same thing. I think Mass effect is an example; the second chapter is simply better than the first under every aspect, but I got tired of it very fast despite putting a good deal of hours in the first.
This does not only apply to sequels. I enjoyed the first single-player fps "campaign" I played, and it was not an especially good one. Now each and every fps is pure boredom to me. Of course I instinctively feel that my first game was the better one.
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Thing is with the majority of the non -competitive population into LoL (varies for this one), BF3, MW3, Skyrim, Portal, etc., they are too ignorant to enter the eSports realm, which is mostly old games. So the answer to your question is yes, this is the last generation for games like BW.
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Glad to see that I'm not the only person who still enjoys playing brood war. 
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On December 30 2011 06:25 Ribbon wrote:
BTW: Nostalgia is when you played BW 10 years ago and think the campaign was really amazing when in fact it has a lot of flaws you forgot about.
Nostalgia is not when you've been doing something religiously for years and still like it.
No, nostalgia does not necessarily indicate a flaw viewed of the past, merely a yearning for the past, though I agree that BW play doesn't necessarily count as nostalgia because many still play it because it's still fun now.
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EPT
