Here is my take on what is being discussed throughoutly the thread posts:
1) FF6 is the best Final Fantasy of them all. 2) SC2 is an aberration, a RTS horribly designed but even so its 3rd best RTS available for us. 3) Is SC2 really easier than BW? Personally I find that SC2 is way easier in every single aspect, but thats just my experience. 4) Is SC2 less fun than BW? Yes, I find BW much more fun than SC2. 5) I play BW because of nostalgia? No, only those who don't play BW would possibly think that the people playing BW are there just because of nostalgia. Those people are silly to not say worse.
And yes, I've played a lot of games of SC2, and its a huge dissapointment. There are 2 more expansions coming out, but from what we have seen, it is not going to get any better.
Thats my opinion, if you don't agree thats because you are yourself and I am myself.
This is not nostalgia. This game is just better. l am really infuriated by all who says its only nostalgia. NO! You guys dont know a shit! This is one of those exceptions when i'm pretty sure a game is just more fun.
BW Music > SC2 music BW Multi > SC2 multi BW single < SC2 single BW joy of watching >>>>>> SC2 joy of sleeping BW > SC2
On December 29 2011 03:52 fabiano wrote: Here is my take on what is being discussed throughoutly the thread posts:
1) FF6 is the best Final Fantasy of them all. 2) SC2 is an aberration, a RTS horribly designed but even so its 3rd best RTS available for us. 3) Is SC2 really easier than BW? Personally I find that SC2 is way easier in every single aspect, but thats just my experience. 4) Is SC2 less fun than BW? Yes, I find BW much more fun than SC2. 5) I play BW because of nostalgia? No, only those who don't play BW would possibly think that the people playing BW are there just because of nostalgia. Those people are silly to not say worse.
And yes, I've played a lot of games of SC2, and its a huge dissapointment. There are 2 more expansions coming out, but from what we have seen, it is not going to get any better.
Thats my opinion, if you don't agree thats because you are yourself and I am myself.
Are you seriously implying War3 > Star2?
Star1 and Star2 are moving in different directions. BW is about doing hard things well, and SC2 is slowly moving in the direction of doing as many easy things at once as possible. And then, once it becomes clear to all SC2 has no chance of being BW mark 2 (which a lot of SC2 fans actually want), maybe the animosity between the two communities will lessen. Still, a direct comparison between the two doesn't look good for SC2.
BW good micro
SC2 Good Micro
BW Good Storms
SC2 good storms
(Though, in fairness, he also derped away the prism by flying it over marines, so it's not that great)
BW player disrespecting his opponent
SC2 player disrespecting his opponent
BW Fuck up:
SC2 Fuck up:
Yeah :|
Still, both games have their appeals. I play both, and I think that'll be more common as more SC2 players become BW-curious. Provided the BW community can be cool about it.
Think about it.. does BW and Kespa care about foreign fans?
So you want KOREAN organisation 2 care about foreign fans? while the foreign fans are like so small that there is no reason for them 2 care? and yet they let us restream and everything.
and GOM TV cares about foreigners because koreans dont care enough about GOM TV.
Actually, thats a lie. I started on the original empire game, however I failed to actually find any pictures of the game play. It was done in glorious 8 colors. Not 8bit you spoiled nintendo players, it literally only had 8 colors to display.
When Dune2/C&C/WC/WC2/SC1 came out in that order, you know what first grabbed everyone's attention at each release?
The graphics, the new improved capabilities of delivering a new war game experience with better graphics than the last. Sure back then we all played the genre because we liked the idea behind it and the mechanics but we were absolutely floored by the eye candy back then too. (I giggle when the sc1 crowd brags about how it 'discovered' things like apm and sophisticated economy management).
Hell, i remember people telling me how the cinematic was SC1 were so well done that they looked better than movies and so 'incredibly close' to real life. LOL
In the end I find all this hate on games being eye candy oriented to be a little hypocritical.
I think the popularity of minecraft is evidence that kids these days don't just care about graphics.
I've also encountered many younger people who've played some classic games that I haven't and speak of their greatness. There are just people who have an appreciation for good things (good taste) and people like Donald Trump who want everything to be gold plated or solid gold (tacky and bad taste despite being shiny and expensive).
EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to mention we all have the right to choose as consumers and even those consumers with bad taste need things to consume.
On December 29 2011 06:55 dUTtrOACh wrote: I think the popularity of minecraft is evidence that kids these days don't just care about graphics.
I've also encountered many younger people who've played some classic games that I haven't and speak of their greatness. There are just people who have an appreciation for good things (good taste) and people like Donald Trump who want everything to be gold plated or solid gold (tacky and bad taste despite being shiny and expensive).
EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to mention we all have the right to choose as consumers and even those consumers with bad taste need things to consume.
I'd also point out that the first thing anyone ever does on minecraft after playing it for any amount of time is to get a texture pack to cover up how ugly that game can look.
I don't get what people hating games cos they're "easier" are on about.
I don't play BW myself, but I played quake 1/2/3, qwctf/TF, TF2 all competitively. I don't think one game is "better" than the other. I think one is more fun than the other, but that's my opinion. Saying BW is better is just as incorrect as an SC2 fan saying SC2 is better. They are different games, it's all up to your own personal opinion.
I didn't like TF2 at first because of the insanely low learning curve compared to all the other games I had played since. But does that mean the top level players/clans are not skilled? No. Soon after I learned there is a different kind of skill in TF2 - teamwork. It relies very heavily on teamwork compared to the previous team fortress. This brings a new dimension of excitement, playing with your clan on skype/vent/whatever against a similar skilled clan, pulling off a really nicely planned out strategy with good teamwork is just as rewarding as splitting your marines perfectly against banelings or whatever.
The problem with games that have a huge learning curve is that people are afraid to get into it. They see people play and think it will be too hard to play. That's why you rarely see FPS games with bunnyhopping/strafejumping etc anymore, because it's hard to learn for the casual gamer. Game developers earn just as much revenue (if not more) from the casual gamer than the hardcore gamer, because there are more of them. That's also why you see all those facebook/iOS games. I wouldn't be surprised if Popcap have made more profit off Plants vs Zombies than Blizzard have made off SC2.
If you were a game developer and created two identical games; one with some technical aspect such as bunnyhopping and one without then did a survey on x people (combination between hardcore gamers and casual gamers from different games) and turned out the non-bunny hopping game was more favored, would you release the one with bunnyhopping just because you liked it more? No. Game developers have to make a living, and whether you accept it or not it will be a more popular game.
I don't play BW so there's probably not much depth/validity to this argument, but yes it's harder to do the simple tasks like keep up production and control your army in BW, but why does that make it a better game? One could argue that you should have been able to hotkey buildings, and should have been able to hotkey more than 12 units, which would have made it a better game.
tl;dr it's about opinion. You think BW is better, others think other games are better. Game developers have to appeal to the majority, which unfortunately is the less-technical games. That's all there is to it.
We've all been a part of games that have died, or are dying. It's sad indeed, and we will do anything to tell others that the game is better than other games, but we all have to move on sooner or later.
Actually, thats a lie. I started on the original empire game, however I failed to actually find any pictures of the game play. It was done in glorious 8 colors. Not 8bit you spoiled nintendo players, it literally only had 8 colors to display.
When Dune2/C&C/WC/WC2/SC1 came out in that order, you know what first grabbed everyone's attention at each release?
The graphics, the new improved capabilities of delivering a new war game experience with better graphics than the last. Sure back then we all played the genre because we liked the idea behind it and the mechanics but we were absolutely floored by the eye candy back then too. (I giggle when the sc1 crowd brags about how it 'discovered' things like apm and sophisticated economy management).
Hell, i remember people telling me how the cinematic was SC1 were so well done that they looked better than movies and so 'incredibly close' to real life. LOL
In the end I find all this hate on games being eye candy oriented to be a little hypocritical.
When ppl are saying SC2 is eye candy they are not saying that they dislike it because of the graphics, they are implying that graphics is all it's got, and that the actual gameplay is bad. Starcraft might have been considered eye candy back in the day, but it also had substance.
Everything about SC2 is worse than BW. It has terrible unit physics (movements). Compare how a group of zerglings moves in the different games. The BW zerglings are much more realistic to how they would move in a real battlefield. The graphics in SC2 are advanced but poorly made, I mean you can barely distinguish individual units. There are also less tactical units in SC2, and the tactical units is what makes BW so great.
BW is just better in all aspects, including physics, graphics and gameplay.
No, you're not the last generation that appreciates substance over shinys. There has never been such a generation in gamings history. Big blockbusters always have been state of the art; sc1 was no exception. And the games that gather cult followings through the years have always been games with substance.
There are also a lot of good games still being released. From the hardcore demon souls, to the story & atmosphere driven batman arkham games to the offbeat idea of minecraft.
Plenty of quality is released if you know where to look, but popularity has never been a good indicator of the quality of entertainment. After all, the average IQ is only 100; so don't expect the masses to be wise. Even if they're nerds.
On December 28 2011 13:14 JiYan wrote: i somehow see it as unlikely that this next generation will be all into the great classics, even the recent classics such as final fantasy. i feel like final fantasy isnt even popular anymore for kids
Really? We're in the golden age of remakes and ports. Companies have figured out that they can make big bucks releasing games they've already made a decade ago. Take a look at how many Chrono Trigger ports there are. Remakes/ports of SNES/NES Final Fantasies and Dragon Quests. Look up and down the lineup of popular DS titles. Look at the Virtual Console lineup on the Wii. I've even been seeing huge Sega Genesis bundles on Steam.
Kids these days may even be likelier to play the classics than before. Instead of going to a store and paying $80 for a SNES game that they didn't even know was good (they're only interested in it because Nintendo Power gave it good reviews!), they can go on the internet and buy one for a few bucks. Everyone has such easy access to a lot of classic games. I wouldn't be surprised if the original Mario Bros was played more often today than during the PSX days. In fact, I'd be shocked if that wasn't the case
EPT
CHEERS!
