Disclaimer: This upcoming season is BROOD WAR Proleague. No mention of STARCRAFT 2 in ANY of the articles. DO NOT be stupid when posting here. If you're looking for flame war, PM me instead about how much BW sucks. We don't need flame wars in TL threads.
(Will be doing a full translation if I think its necessary in the future)
To sum it up:
-New Proleague season will be divided up into 2, half a year per. Each season has 3 rounds, and there will be total of 84 games, which means each team will play 21 matches. We will have TWO winners this season, instead of having a Grand Final.
-8 teams will participate. In this post season, 4 top teams will go into playoffs with challenge style (previously used format I guess). Semi-PO and PO will be Best out of 3, while Finals will be only one match.
-BO5 will return this season. In order to keep the new players playing in Proleague, they got rid of ACE MATCH system, so player who played in any of previous 4 sets cannot play again.
-Matches will be held at OGN on Saturday, Sunday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. For Weekend, OGN will cast 2 games back to back starting 12:00 KST. On Tuesday/Wednesday, Proleague starts on 16:00 KST but only 1 match. There will be total of 6 matches per week.
-New Maps: Down to 6 from 8 because its BO5 now. Every map is new this season. Seems like we have a map similar to Holy World (Chain Reaction), successor to Outsider (Outlier), 4 player version of Medusa (Electric Circuit), and the 3rd series in the 'Ridge' series (Sniper Ridge) will be included. Seems like we also have reverse ramp style map 'Jade' along with 'Ground Zero' which might serve as successor to 'Python' and 'Fighting Spirit'
-First match is SKT T1 vs KeSPA 8th Team. It will be followed by KT Rolster vs Airforce ACE
boo... I hate the NO ACE MATCH part. Not only because Im a KT fan but all those tense moments where everyone is waiting on who the ace would be is now gone. good for january I guess.
On November 17 2011 14:16 supernovamaniac wrote: (Will be doing a full translation if I think its necessary in the future)
To sum it up:
-New Proleague season will be divided up into 2, half a year per. Each season has 3 rounds, and there will be total of 84 games, which means each team will play 21 matches. We will have TWO winners this season, instead of having a Grand Final.
-8 teams will participate. In this post season, 4 top teams will go into playoffs with challenge style (previously used format I guess). Semi-PO and PO will be Best out of 3, while Finals will be only one match.
-BO5 will return this season. In order to keep the new players playing in Proleague, they got rid of ACE MATCH system, so player who played in any of previous 4 sets cannot play again.
-Matches will be held at OGN on Saturday, Sunday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. For Weekend, OGN will cast 2 games back to back starting 12:00 KST. On Tuesday/Wednesday, Proleague starts on 16:00 KST but only 1 match. There will be total of 6 matches per week.
-New Maps: Down to 6 from 8 because its BO5 now. Every map is new this season. Seems like we have a map similar to Holy World (Chain Reaction), successor to Outsider (Outlier), 4 player version of Medusa (Electric Circuit), and the 3rd series in the 'Ridge' series (Sniper Ridge) will be included. Seems like we also have reverse ramp style map 'Zaid' along with 'Ground Zero' which might serve as successor to 'Python' and 'Fighting Spirit'
-First match is SKT T1 vs KeSPA 8th Team. It will be followed by KT Rolster vs Airforce ACE
-New Proleague season will be divided up into 2, half a year per. Each season has 3 rounds, and there will be total of 84 games, which means each team will play 21 matches. We will have TWO winners this season, instead of having a Grand Final.
I think it's pretty clear what this means.
I don't like the no ace match system, but if it was no ace match bo5 vs ace mach bo5 i'd probably take it. rather have ace match bo7 though.
T___T why Bo5, no Ace? I feel like that's actually going to make people less likely to stay until the end, if their favorite player (Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, etc.) has already played.
This hurts the rookies because teams not can't afford to save their ace players for the last match if they can lose before game 5. I want the bo7 format back and Grand Finals on the beach, yo!
Not enough sponsorship for a Grand Final? I can't see why they'd eschew something that seems to draw the casual fans out of the woodwork. This is now like the Apertura/Clausura thing with South and Central American soccer/futbol. I'm sad to see the old ACE format gone, but I do prefer Bo5.
Does it mention whether coaches will submit player names ahead of the match (the PL system from before the match-fixing scandal) or will it remain in the moment?
On November 17 2011 14:34 johnnywup wrote: what does it mean by no grand final and having two winners? is it like 4 teams in 2 different proleague brackets?
No, it's like they have two "semesters" per season. One team wins each semester.
There will be finals for each half of the season. It's basically reverted back to the format they used back in 2004 except Bo5 and with no split divisions (ala Mercury/Saturn).
edit: so we're back to the round 1/round 2 system aka 전기리그/후기리그
On November 17 2011 14:25 Kiett wrote: T___T why Bo5, no Ace? I feel like that's actually going to make people less likely to stay until the end, if their favorite player (Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, etc.) has already played.
What ? No Grand Finals ? I missed it in Shanghai because of that imaginary typhoon, so I promised myself I'd fly to Korea to see the next Grand Finals and they've just removed it ?
I guess it's ok because there are still playoffs finals.
And I guess it's really ok because all in all, the fucking Proleague is back yay ! SKT FIGHTING !
On November 17 2011 14:45 xxpack09 wrote: wtf..... ace matches generate SO much excitement....
Bo7 w/ ACE >>>>>> Bo5 without
its understandable though, they had to find a way to cut the broadcast time with only 1 broadcasting station at the same time give exposure to as many players as possible.
Best of 5 is a terrible decision. With only 8 teams, the talent is really condensed. We go from a maximum possible of players per team from 6 (since Ace was always a repeat) down to 5. Furthermore, no Ace, so you cannot see your hero play twice.
This is, frankly, a poor decision that will hurt the long term growth since most games will only see 3-4 players per team. I know the fans complained about the length of matches, but I have a feeling the Bo5 format with only 8 teams will be the end of Broodwar. I'm quite serious. New talent will not play as much, and who wants to be a bench warmer and practice partner their whole career.
New talent has no chance. 3-5 players per match down from 4-6 is HUGE.
CJ has 6 big stars (Hydra, Effort, Movie, Horang, Snow, Leta). They can only even field 5 of them tops... there isn't room for the whole big boys let alone the developing talent. All the teams are like this now except ACE and STX.
Although the Bo5 from 2009-2010 ago only saw a max of 4 players, there were 12 teams so 12x4 = 48 max players per week. Now it is 8x5 = 40 max players (or 24 minimum). This is worse than 2 years ago.
Ugh, I wanted Ace match for all the reasons above...mainly the possibility of being able to see the best of the best play twice (e.g Flash JD Bisu Stork..)
No grand final is so depressing too, its like taking away the superbowl ffs!
I also want Bo7 for more games , but I understand they would have trouble with the broadcasting..bah, but I still support them all the way! Go BW!
No Ace Match? FINALLY. That means a TEAM should be strong and not just one player. And I speak this sincerely, I am a Jaedong fan and a Oz fan, but I found extremely annoying a team like that reaching 08-09 finals just because of this ACE Match system.
Now my flash can't go out for ace matches anymore , honestly drafting mind was a great idea , coaches must have foreseen this situation coming that's why they decided to get a solid third player for kt and wooki . So nah, I don't think we are going to get trashed over by others team in this format . KT FIGHTINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
Good news for ACE, their biggest weakness was the lack of a superstar ace match player to seal the deal, now their team of players do stand a chance in a bo5 against other teams if they pick the matchups smartly.
They should stick with BO7, even if they have to remove ACE. I don't see how this will keep new players since teams can now stomp with their best 3 in any line up. SKT will be like FBB all the way T.T, Sun, Soo, S2, Hyuk won't even get a game.
This is ridiculous. I guess it's good and bad that there are no ace players, but the whole two winners thing is so weird. There should only be one champion team
On November 17 2011 14:51 r3z3nd3 wrote: No Ace Match? FINALLY. That means a TEAM should be strong and not just one player. And I speak this sincerely, I am a Jaedong fan and a Oz fan, but I found extremely annoying a team like that reaching 08-09 finals just because of this ACE Match system.
No finals? You're kidding me right?
there are going to be two finals. one for each season
On November 17 2011 14:45 xxpack09 wrote: wtf..... ace matches generate SO much excitement....
Bo7 w/ ACE >>>>>> Bo5 without
flash/kt is the biggest loser out of this format i reckon, no Ace and no WL
Not really, judging from Grand Finals 10-11, KT is solid. Not to mention same should be said for SKT1 as well. no Ace and no WL.
WL saved your asses so you could get a Playoff spot as #3, your regular PL format record in the first 2 rounds was terrible.(last rounds also not amazing)
On November 17 2011 15:02 Black[CAT] wrote: This is really2 bad for the growth of new players. Limiting number of sets...This is wrong...
Cat , maybe these is kespa response to audience complaining that sets are too long , so they are going to get bored by having bo7 plus an ace option . I think bo5 is not that bad but taking out ace option is really a bad idea for team's like kt T_T . On another note, if shin han bank is no where in sight as sponsors who else will be sponsoring proleague ?
On November 17 2011 14:25 Kiett wrote: T___T why Bo5, no Ace? I feel like that's actually going to make people less likely to stay until the end, if their favorite player (Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, etc.) has already played.
Moreover, those favorite ace players can now only play a maximum of 42 games over the whole year, it seems, as opposed to close to double that. Not only that, but no ace vs. ace means significantly fewer superlative Starcraft matches will be fought this year in favor of simple sniping.
On the whole, it seems like good Starcraft just got downsized.
The biggest problem I had with a Bo7 format was that teams had to play their second stringers on a regular basis, leading to a proliferation of boring, mediocre games. My interest in watching BW did drop immensely as a result, and I don't think I'm alone in this respect.
I'm also really happy players don't have to prepare for as many as 2 PL matches a week anymore. That was f'n insane.
On November 17 2011 14:45 xxpack09 wrote: wtf..... ace matches generate SO much excitement....
Bo7 w/ ACE >>>>>> Bo5 without
flash/kt is the biggest loser out of this format i reckon, no Ace and no WL
Not really, judging from Grand Finals 10-11, KT is solid. Not to mention same should be said for SKT1 as well. no Ace and no WL.
WL saved your asses so you could get a Playoff spot as #3, your regular PL format record in the first 2 rounds was terrible.(last rounds also not amazing)
"your asses" whoaaah. why so much hate? don't need to get so aggressive
judging from Grand Finals 10-11, KT is solid (and games leading to that point..when KT zergs were doing well)
Wow. I didn't like any of these changes. No winner's league, down to Bo5 and no Ace match. Like it or not it's the superstars that draw out the big crowds and create the most intrigue and drama. We'll be seeing a lot less of TBLS this year. A LOT less.
there should be a protest or petition if possible, the premise of removing ace match so "rookies" can get experience is BS because the good teams (Khan, CJ, SKT) fielded rookies routinely to get them experience in high pressure situations whereas the underdog teams were forced to field their aces in their entire lineup and ace just so that they could get results and maintain standing
tl;dr: rookies don't get exposure in bad teams, and in good teams they already did, all this does is remove fan excitement about ace match in the possibility that their favorite player/the best player on their team could come out and have an epic match / rematch
On November 17 2011 15:09 Zona wrote: The biggest problem I had with a Bo7 format was that teams had to play their second stringers on a regular basis, leading to a proliferation of boring, mediocre games. My interest in watching BW did drop immensely as a result, and I don't think I'm alone in this respect.
I'm also really happy players don't have to prepare for as many as 2 PL matches a week anymore. That was f'n insane.
There aren't any teams that would need to play their B-team players any more with WeMade and MBC gone now, though. No more herO[jOin] in important matches. *shudder*
All the other teams seem to have a pretty solid starting 6, save for perhaps STX (Calm, Bogus, Classic, hero, Shuttle, Modesty?? That seems pretty decent to me.)
Too many conflicting feelings. Bo7 with ace still gave more chances for newer players than Bo5 without ace. But I guess time constrictions were an issue for one studio. Also no grand finals? lol wut?
BW did get downsized, but the league really went overboard in the last few years and oversaturated the schedule with matches. From what I can gather as a fan who doesn't know the Korean language, 2007 was the zenith of BW popularity in South Korea. I don't think it's complete coincidence to associate when BW's popularity peaked with Kespa later stuffing the calender with more and more games until we had the ridiculous 10 matches/week schedule.
It's basically two seasons per year, which is fine by me. It wouldn't have been before, but with the death of the MSL and less frequent OSL tournaments anymore, we need our tournament fix to come from somewhere. No Grand Finals really equalizes the two seasons instead of before when you were only kinda a winner and then lost in the real finals to be forgotten. Now teams can celebrate with their full hearts every 6 months, instead of every 12.
No ace match means teams will have to gamble on whether to save their big gun for Game 5 or go all in with by front-loading earlier games. A Bo7 no-ace would be IMO quite brutal but would expose the most players; I personally would have gone with that format.
On November 17 2011 15:12 BLinD-RawR wrote: I'm not complaining it's still BW!
Probably the most appropriate response.
With less games, less teams, and less matches, every single set is now that much more significant. I expect a ridiculous surge of unorthodox strategies and cheeses this season. I think this season will be AWESOME!
the thing many netizens are complaining about is the fact that they are planning to broadcast on tues/wed at 4pm. who the hell is going to be available to watch proleague at 4pm? all students in korea, even elementary kids, go to cram schools after school and obviously, working adults can't watch either since they're still at work.
On November 17 2011 15:22 Ciryandor wrote: No ace match means teams will have to gamble on whether to save their big gun for Game 5 or go all in with by front-loading earlier games.
I think we'll just see the coaches "play the maps". So depending on which map is number 5, you either get an anticlimactic S2 vs Soulkey final or a totally awesome Bisu vs ZerO final. It'll quite simply depend on the map order. I don't think coaches will save their top players for last if the map is not good for their race or play styles. The only exception would be Flash, who is god, and can be saved for any map in any matchup.
wow ugh I hate almost all these changes ... :\ If only MBCGame stayed ......
The more I think about it the more I get depressed .. seriously, 2 finals are fine to me if there's a GRAND final like they did before Playoff changes are fine, but there seems to be no plans about it at all.
Also WHY Bo5?! The number of teams have gotten smaller, the number of days PL being broadcasted had shrunk, and the amount of at-least-decent players on every team has increased! Hell, even community polls showed there was the most support for keeping the Bo7 format .. Bo7 was so much fun to watch and was so beneficial for the upcoming players, now there's even less incentive for rookies to keep playing BW :l
and THE REMOVAL OF ACE MATCH? I swear to god, that is one of the DEFINITIVE things about Proleague, how can they do this?!?!? This is probably the most serious offender of the list of terrible changes.
I was EXTREMELY pumped about PL, but now I'm just depressed as hell. I'll still watch, but all my excitement has been shot away ...
On November 17 2011 15:25 hmmm... wrote: the thing many netizens are complaining about is the fact that they are planning to broadcast on tues/wed at 4pm. who the hell is going to be available to watch proleague at 4pm? all students in korea, even elementary kids, go to cram schools after school and obviously, working adults can't watch either since they're still at work.
....Are you for real? I have class at exactly 4PM. Wooowwwwww. It's like OGN has learned nothing from broadcasting over 10 years worth of Starcraft.
won't judge new system until we get to experience it. Apparently the Bo5 format helps with making it more desirable for live audiences a lot more, so that can be really nice.
On November 17 2011 15:25 hmmm... wrote: the thing many netizens are complaining about is the fact that they are planning to broadcast on tues/wed at 4pm. who the hell is going to be available to watch proleague at 4pm? all students in korea, even elementary kids, go to cram schools after school and obviously, working adults can't watch either since they're still at work.
....Are you for real? I have class at exactly 4PM. Wooowwwwww. It's like OGN has learned nothing from broadcasting over 10 years worth of Starcraft.
i know right? since they're only casting one game each on tues/wed, i don't see why they can't start later, like at 7...
if they were casting two games each day like on the weekends, i can understand the 4pm start but that isn't the case here.
On November 17 2011 15:43 ffreakk wrote: Sigh, i wonder what's their reason for getting rid of the ACE match system. >.<
Personally i think that's pretty much the high of any intense BW game >.<
Too not get rid of developing players. It worked in 2009-2010 since there were 12 teams. But with only 8, Bo5 with Ace would mean too few players get fielded. They had to go Bo5 since Bo7 was too long for Korean fans.
On November 17 2011 14:51 r3z3nd3 wrote: No Ace Match? FINALLY. That means a TEAM should be strong and not just one player. And I speak this sincerely, I am a Jaedong fan and a Oz fan, but I found extremely annoying a team like that reaching 08-09 finals just because of this ACE Match system.
No finals? You're kidding me right?
A deep team could always get a deserved win if it simply took the match before it went to the ace set.
No ace match is absolutely retarded. It almost always guarantee the top players matched against each other and it was the finale which is what viewers want to see: the big matchups. Taking away the most important game in a proleague match is beyond comprehension if their goal is growing casual interest in Korea. Having a match end on by.Hero vs Sun does seem to bear as much weight as if it ended on Bisu vs. Jaedong. And if they really wanted to have more players be active in each match, why not keep it bo7? Doesn't make too much sense to shrink the format this much when the league itself has suffered from heavy contraction.
Should have kept Bo7 with ace match. That way they keep the excitement of the ace match, while also providing the opportunity for rookies and unproven players to get a chance once in a awhile.
Also, like many people have said, the teams are all deeper so there would be less chance of seeing boring games between B teamers on a regular basis.
You guys remember that old jokes? Flash wins GOM it shuts down, Flash wins MSL, MBC shuts down, Flash wins PL finals, and BW was supposed to shut down, Well now Flash win too many ace matches and WL so they are removed too.
Wow i seriously just started hyperventalating for a second there.
they just changed something i thought would never change.
I can't believe they are getting the ace match, where the aces from both teams would come out and face off. that's what being an "ace player" means, you play the "ace match". I can't believe this at all.
I guess we're gonna have to accept this in our lives though. that's all we can do. It might actually be a good for team dynamics. FPL will be less exciting though .
Shinhan leaving as a sponser would definiteley explain this kind of things though.
That broadcasting schedule is actually a really good one though. I think it's actually the best possible with 6 matches/week. maps seem cool and that's a good day1.
On November 17 2011 16:19 Ferrose wrote: Is that a...Bo1 finals for each season? O_o
it was last year too. a bo1 in this case refers to a best of one , best of 7 (most likely) . the bo3s in semis refer to a best of three, best of sevens.
Only thing I really don't like is the removal of the Ace match. Otherwise I don't mind the bo5 over bo7.
This will make Fantasy pro league different though. Top players can't be nearly so expensive if they're guaranteed 2nd game and extra points for Ace match is removed. Interesting.
It's not that bad guys, it's two seasons per year with two 'grand finals'. The no ace match is a bit disappointing but it'll be good to watch some interesting pseudo ace matches between whichever players are sent out last.
God Kespa is so stupid. Why would you remove the ace match? And no winners League? Doesn't every sports institution that less super star coverage is a really bad thing? This will really hurt KeSPAs amount of viewers I guarantee it.
I can see the reasoning behind no Ace match though I am not sure yet if they are convincing. And I suspect that Winner's League had bad ratings so they got rid of it.
But two Winners and no Grand finals. I dont know what the fuck is going on. Have they lost their fucking mind? Maybe in Wimbledon next year there won't be Nadal vs. Federer. Both win! Because fuck you Fans. Also no Manchester vs. Barca. Because who would want to see that?
What in the name of hell... These are some weird changes. One thing I'm a huge fan of is less matches per week though! Think it's gonna make each match more tense and make it easier to follow aswell (plus, I believe this is also in the players' best interest).
Btw, is this format final or can changes still be made?
On November 17 2011 16:47 sixfour wrote: no ace match is unbelievably good for stars
Yeah good for Stars. But even though they have top players, good for all the deep teams like CJ as well. Completely turns pl on its head. Top player teams nowhere near as scary. Solid deep teams a lot more so.
Flash can't play the final role of final boss ??? T_T my kt fan boy heart is already crying inside already . So freaking depress.......................
Ace matches originally were a great way to get top players from different teams to play each other outside of the deep stages of tournaments. Now we are almost certainly going to miss out on many Jaedong Vs flash Vs Bisu matches just because they'll never be sent out on maps that are favorable to the other. There's no way this can help viewership.
But hey, maybe KT won't win a third title on flash and stats' backs.
The thing is, this might've made a little more sense last year. Progamer schedules were horrendously packed. But now with less teams and no MBC, there's actually extra time for gamers and they just cut back on the games.
On November 17 2011 17:15 TwoToneTerran wrote: Ace matches originally were a great way to get top players from different teams to play each other outside of the deep stages of tournaments. Now we are almost certainly going to miss out on many Jaedong Vs flash Vs Bisu matches just because they'll never be sent out on maps that are favorable to the other. There's no way this can help viewership.
But hey, maybe KT won't win a third title on flash and stats' backs.
The thing is, this might've made a little more sense last year. Progamer schedules were horrendously packed. But now with less teams and no MBC, there's actually extra time for gamers and they just cut back on the games.
They cut back on the games because it's only OGN that's broadcasting and OGN has a ton of other games that they want to broadcast as well.
The reason it's Bo5 is probably because OGN is airing SF2 Proleague on Saturdays and Tuesdays as well, right after SC Proleague.
On November 17 2011 17:15 TwoToneTerran wrote: Ace matches originally were a great way to get top players from different teams to play each other outside of the deep stages of tournaments. Now we are almost certainly going to miss out on many Jaedong Vs flash Vs Bisu matches just because they'll never be sent out on maps that are favorable to the other. There's no way this can help viewership.
But hey, maybe KT won't win a third title on flash and stats' backs.
The thing is, this might've made a little more sense last year. Progamer schedules were horrendously packed. But now with less teams and no MBC, there's actually extra time for gamers and they just cut back on the games.
They cut back on the games because it's only OGN that's broadcasting and OGN has a ton of other games that they want to broadcast as well.
The reason it's Bo5 is probably because OGN is airing SF2 Proleague on Saturdays and Tuesdays as well, right after SC Proleague.
As a Korean male with many other Korean male friends who watch e-sports, I can confidently say that absolutely noone cares about watching SF2.
On November 17 2011 17:15 TwoToneTerran wrote: Ace matches originally were a great way to get top players from different teams to play each other outside of the deep stages of tournaments. Now we are almost certainly going to miss out on many Jaedong Vs flash Vs Bisu matches just because they'll never be sent out on maps that are favorable to the other. There's no way this can help viewership.
But hey, maybe KT won't win a third title on flash and stats' backs.
The thing is, this might've made a little more sense last year. Progamer schedules were horrendously packed. But now with less teams and no MBC, there's actually extra time for gamers and they just cut back on the games.
They cut back on the games because it's only OGN that's broadcasting and OGN has a ton of other games that they want to broadcast as well.
The reason it's Bo5 is probably because OGN is airing SF2 Proleague on Saturdays and Tuesdays as well, right after SC Proleague.
As a Korean male with many other Korean male friends who watch e-sports, I can confidently say that absolutely noone cares about watching SF2.
That is true. But there's only one studio at Yongsan. Weekdays are packed with other stuff like WCG, Sudden Attack etc etc. And SF2 league is sponsored by 생각대로T (SK).
I used to be mad at the no ace match format, but when I thought about it I actually like the removal. It adds an extra strategic element to each match, like whether they want to play their aces early or conserve it for later but take the risk of losing the match before it gets to the 5th set. It also takes away gay situations like KT did before where they just needed one win without Flash and just relying on him to win the next two to take the match.
Besides, you dont know the lineup before the match anymore anyway and I always thought that was what made ace matches exciting. 5th set will stay exciting anyway
On November 17 2011 17:15 Ryo wrote: After some reflection, I think I can accept the new format. But BOTH halves of the season better be pure BW or else...
Imagines ryo going berzerk , straps on a red headband around his head, arm's himself with a M-60 machine guns , Suit's him self up with a jacket fill with grenades and ammunition . Kicks down the door at Kespa HQ and say's " Don't push it , I will give you a war ,you wont believe .
On November 17 2011 17:15 Ryo wrote: After some reflection, I think I can accept the new format. But BOTH halves of the season better be pure BW or else...
Imagines ryo going berzerk , straps on a red headband around his head, arm's himself with a M-60 machine guns , Suit's him self up with a jacket fill with grenades and ammunition . Kicks down the door at Kespa HQ and say's " Don't push it , I will give you a war ,you wont believe .
On November 17 2011 17:15 TwoToneTerran wrote: Ace matches originally were a great way to get top players from different teams to play each other outside of the deep stages of tournaments. Now we are almost certainly going to miss out on many Jaedong Vs flash Vs Bisu matches just because they'll never be sent out on maps that are favorable to the other. There's no way this can help viewership.
But hey, maybe KT won't win a third title on flash and stats' backs.
The thing is, this might've made a little more sense last year. Progamer schedules were horrendously packed. But now with less teams and no MBC, there's actually extra time for gamers and they just cut back on the games.
They cut back on the games because it's only OGN that's broadcasting and OGN has a ton of other games that they want to broadcast as well.
The reason it's Bo5 is probably because OGN is airing SF2 Proleague on Saturdays and Tuesdays as well, right after SC Proleague.
As a Korean male with many other Korean male friends who watch e-sports, I can confidently say that absolutely noone cares about watching SF2.
That is true. But there's only one studio at Yongsan. Weekdays are packed with other stuff like WCG, Sudden Attack etc etc. And SF2 league is sponsored by 생각대로T (SK).
Yeah Wish SK could shell out that sponsoring money on Proleague instead.
No ace match has both strengths and weaknesses. It will make for a better assessment of which team is best. With Bo5, it's much easier for a team to ride their ace. It also means we will get to see more players, which is great because there aren't as many games and guys who aren't marquee players have a greater opportunity. Nobody can deny the drama of an ace match, but I think the benefits do outweigh that feeling.
Going back to two seasons is totally fine by me as well. I always preferred that to the marathon season. If the end is in sight, every game means a lot more. Also, just think of it as two grand finals. We're getting two seasons instead of one, and doubling our dose of the tension of playoffs and the pomp of finals.
Overall, I think this is really promising, and I don't know if I've ever been as hyped about the start of PL as I am now.
well this is team league after all, so overall team strenght can shine, sending ace players now will have even more meaning than before because they have only 1 chance and will be used more strategically
On November 17 2011 17:15 TwoToneTerran wrote: Ace matches originally were a great way to get top players from different teams to play each other outside of the deep stages of tournaments. Now we are almost certainly going to miss out on many Jaedong Vs flash Vs Bisu matches just because they'll never be sent out on maps that are favorable to the other. There's no way this can help viewership.
But hey, maybe KT won't win a third title on flash and stats' backs.
The thing is, this might've made a little more sense last year. Progamer schedules were horrendously packed. But now with less teams and no MBC, there's actually extra time for gamers and they just cut back on the games.
They cut back on the games because it's only OGN that's broadcasting and OGN has a ton of other games that they want to broadcast as well.
The reason it's Bo5 is probably because OGN is airing SF2 Proleague on Saturdays and Tuesdays as well, right after SC Proleague.
As a Korean male with many other Korean male friends who watch e-sports, I can confidently say that absolutely noone cares about watching SF2.
That is true. But there's only one studio at Yongsan. Weekdays are packed with other stuff like WCG, Sudden Attack etc etc. And SF2 league is sponsored by 생각대로T (SK).
Yeah Wish SK could shell out that sponsoring money on Proleague instead.
This is something I don't quite understand. The only gaming tournaments that bring in any significant viewership in Korea are BW related. So why the need to diversify to the extent that it ends up hurting the BW scene.
of course now the most consistent team during regular season gets rewarded with a title, but still, it takes away the spectacle. the season can potentially be decided weeks in advance, taking away the excitement.
Yeah, bad that no ACE, but on the other hand that means more competition, and no more KT FLASH, yeah! lets see how it all works out. Anyway its BW we are going to watch!
What the hell is Kespa thinking . If they are going to remove ACE games and the Grand finals at least make the matches Bo7 . It's like they are killing the excitement and having less BW at the same time .
Lack of ace match + bo5 means we'll see a lot more strategic plays than before. Teams can't just send out whatever player they like and hope for the best, we'll see snipes and countersnipes and crazy builds and almost certainly more variety. Teams will have to think about which players they want to send and better players, such as TBLS will still practice for 2 maps per match, in case things go horribly wrong and the team needs a guaranteed win. It will be similar to how the Grand Finals last year went down, with SKT being forced to play Fantasy against Hoejja, in the hopes that Flash would come out, so we'll still have ace matches in a sense.
It sucks that some of the new players probably won't get to play as much but on the other hand, some of the older players might start sucking instead, such is the way of the world. By my count there are 105 games in a season per team, which should provide ample opportunities for the new players to shine or fail.
This might hurt teams like KT and SKT the most, since Bisu and Flash are superaces and can usually be relied on to win 2 games each match but CJ, Team8 and Stars will still have to win against higher quality players if they want to win instead of relying on luck. I think this setup will definitely lead to much higher quality matches overall.
And maybe next year we'll return to BO7 or something, assuming another network shows interest in BW. Curse you MBCGame for bailing on us.
o shit. so samsung khan won't be able to make full use of it's great lineup now when it's only bo5... but without ACE mode coaches will have to let worse players go first, just to save gosu for last sets
my biggest question now is: will there be FANTASY PL ????
Mixed feelings. My team Samsung benefits from lack of an ace match since we generally come out on the short end of matchups(Jaedong, Flash, CJ zergs, Woonjin zergs, and even against Bisu/Fantasy to a lesser extent). But from a spectator's standpoint, half the fun is seeing two teams' Aces battle each other in a winner-takes-all situation. And I feel a lot of the excitement will be gone.
Overall though, I really prefer Ace matches. And hope they change this policy for the 2nd half of the season.
My initial reaction to the format was one of shock and disappointment, but now I've had a chance to think about it more I'm gonna wait and see how it pans out.
As others have intimated already, I'd watch Bo1 with 7 seasons and no Champion in any of them as long as they're playing BW.
On November 17 2011 17:15 Ryo wrote: After some reflection, I think I can accept the new format. But BOTH halves of the season better be pure BW or else...
The fact is, they had to change it up, dramatically. The way last season was run wasnt apparently commercially viable and sustainable - the sponsors pulling out, TV ratings low as theyve been. So they did, with the concise BO5 format, to focus the proleague content on the best players, and league straight to the point with the double finals, making every game count. Remember, this is business, they cannot continue doing the same thing if it isnt turning a profit. And for the few past seasons, Proleague hasnt.
Having 2 winners and no Grand Finals is kind of weird. Is it like running 2 smaller seasons? The Proleague will be good, but I feel it's much better with the older system (although that wasn't perfect either).
On November 17 2011 17:15 Ryo wrote: After some reflection, I think I can accept the new format. But BOTH halves of the season better be pure BW or else...
Yeeeeah... I'm thinking probably not TT TT TT TT
I can't see the logic of not having a Grand Final unless it's because of this.
On November 17 2011 17:15 Ryo wrote: After some reflection, I think I can accept the new format. But BOTH halves of the season better be pure BW or else...
Yeeeeah... I'm thinking probably not TT TT TT TT
I can't see the logic of not having a Grand Final unless it's because of this.
On November 17 2011 19:06 BroodWarHD wrote: The fact is, they had to change it up, dramatically. The way last season was run wasnt apparently commercially viable and sustainable - the sponsors pulling out, TV ratings low as theyve been. So they did, with the concise BO5 format, to focus the proleague content on the best players, and league straight to the point with the double finals, making every game count. Remember, this is business, they cannot continue doing the same thing if it isnt turning a profit. And for the few past seasons, Proleague hasnt.
So then what could possibly be the rationale for removing the ace match?
On November 17 2011 17:15 Ryo wrote: After some reflection, I think I can accept the new format. But BOTH halves of the season better be pure BW or else...
Yeeeeah... I'm thinking probably not TT TT TT TT
I can't see the logic of not having a Grand Final unless it's because of this.
because it's effectively two separate seasons.
I know it's effectively two separate seasons, that's what no Grand Final means. My question was, what's the point of this?
On November 17 2011 17:15 Ryo wrote: After some reflection, I think I can accept the new format. But BOTH halves of the season better be pure BW or else...
Yeeeeah... I'm thinking probably not TT TT TT TT
I can't see the logic of not having a Grand Final unless it's because of this.
because it's effectively two separate seasons.
No, actually what Ryo means is BW first season, SC2 second season, which is why there's no Grand Final(why would you have a Grand Final between a BW winner and SC2 winner).
If both seasons are BW seasons, then there's no doubt there should be a Grand Final between both seasons' winner, unless KeSPA thinks only one team will win both seasons.
On November 17 2011 19:06 BroodWarHD wrote: The fact is, they had to change it up, dramatically. The way last season was run wasnt apparently commercially viable and sustainable - the sponsors pulling out, TV ratings low as theyve been. So they did, with the concise BO5 format, to focus the proleague content on the best players, and league straight to the point with the double finals, making every game count. Remember, this is business, they cannot continue doing the same thing if it isnt turning a profit. And for the few past seasons, Proleague hasnt.
So then what could possibly be the rationale for removing the ace match?
To accommodate for the larger player rosters on each team. The ace match system alongside a Bo5 would result in teams only needing to field 2 good players. I'm still sad : (
Actually, I hope with this new format it means KeSPA is allocating some time for OGN to host the next OSL, because Bo7 format really takes a long time. On a 4-3 match, game lasted roughly 3 hours+, which is kinda tiring for both the teams and the commentators IMO.
On November 17 2011 19:38 nok.jp wrote: Sorry for my bad english...
>Semi-PO and PO will be Best out of 3, while Finals will be only one match.
I can't get this line. (I read original Korean article, but still I can't understand what it means ;( ) It means Finals will be Bo3 too?
In the play-offs, the teams will play against each other at least twice, maximum thrice(Bo3 matches, first to win two matches advance). Finals is only one match.
Wow...cant say Im that happy with this news...we have less games, no grand final, no hype before the 5th game (at least not the same, because chances of having 2 big guns playing each other are slimmer now it seems) and the thing that worries me the most is the time of the games....
Wtf 12h and 16h KST its 3am and 7am around here (it will change to 4 and 8 once summer time comes but how long till that=/?). Dont they like europeans?
On November 17 2011 19:45 KobraKay wrote: Wtf 12h and 16h KST its 3am and 7am around here (it will change to 4 and 8 once summer time comes but how long till that=/?). Dont they like europeans?
So by your logic, you want them to play at midnight and 4am in the morning to cater you guys? The fangirls need to sleep too, you know?
On November 17 2011 19:41 sinistral wrote: Actually, I hope with this new format it means KeSPA is allocating some time for OGN to host the next OSL, because Bo7 format really takes a long time. On a 4-3 match, game lasted roughly 3 hours+, which is kinda tiring for both the teams and the commentators IMO.
On November 17 2011 19:38 nok.jp wrote: Sorry for my bad english...
>Semi-PO and PO will be Best out of 3, while Finals will be only one match.
I can't get this line. (I read original Korean article, but still I can't understand what it means ;( ) It means Finals will be Bo3 too?
In the play-offs, the teams will play against each other at least twice, maximum thrice(Bo3 matches, first to win two matches advance). Finals is only one match.
OH now I got it! Thank you! I misread that it means "games number". As I read the article, there are no mentions of the games number in Finals. Finals will be BO5 too maybe?
On November 17 2011 19:55 nok.jp wrote: I misread that it means "games number". As I read the article, there are no mentions of the games number in Finals. Finals will be BO5 too maybe?
On November 17 2011 19:55 nok.jp wrote: I misread that it means "games number". As I read the article, there are no mentions of the games number in Finals. Finals will be BO5 too maybe?
i hope the finals will be BO7, with an ace match.
YES it must be... ;( I'm pretty sad semiPO and PO is also BO5... It's too short!
I wanted to start watching the Pro-League this time, to possibly start getting into BW. But my main confusion is about how they could remove the Ace match. Isn't that a significant part of the Pro-League? And also, won't it backfire a bit, since I guess teams may send their Ace for the final game anyways?
On November 17 2011 20:17 Hassybaby wrote: I wanted to start watching the Pro-League this time, to possibly start getting into BW. But my main confusion is about how they could remove the Ace match. Isn't that a significant part of the Pro-League? And also, won't it backfire a bit, since I guess teams may send their Ace for the final game anyways?
you'd rather secure the win in the first 3 games rather than gamble on the last two (unless the maps are unfavourable or whatever).
On November 17 2011 19:45 KobraKay wrote: Wtf 12h and 16h KST its 3am and 7am around here (it will change to 4 and 8 once summer time comes but how long till that=/?). Dont they like europeans?
So by your logic, you want them to play at midnight and 4am in the morning to cater you guys? The fangirls need to sleep too, you know?
Why such a jerky response that comes off as someone who has no clue? Didnt you watch the last few years?! On weekends they played early because it was the weekend, kids/young adults/adults could watch the games and us Euros were kind of F*cked but we could watch games during the week because they were a few hours later (6pm in SK).
That also made sense for them. The 6pm in SK thing on week days allowed for people with work/school to watch games. Now its harder because some of them are still at school and most of them are still at work.
I never asked for such a stupid schedule like you suggested and Im making an effort to not post in such a stupid way as you did. The point is this is bad for us and for them also so think a little bit before you post and try to understand people's "logic" before calling them out.
On November 17 2011 19:45 KobraKay wrote: Wow...cant say Im that happy with this news...we have less games, no grand final, no hype before the 5th game (at least not the same, because chances of having 2 big guns playing each other are slimmer now it seems) and the thing that worries me the most is the time of the games....
Wtf 12h and 16h KST its 3am and 7am around here (it will change to 4 and 8 once summer time comes but how long till that=/?). Dont they like europeans?
Oh you. I've woken up at 5am way too many times to count these past 2 years, not to mention staying up till then to watch the 2am ish ones. Seems like they like NA ppl more now BAHAHAHAHAH!!
About the news, really think they should have kept the bo7 format. Even if they want to separate them into 2 seasons, they should at least have the two winners play each other. I want Jaedong and Killer to lift the GRANDFINALS TROPHY.
This is great news but the pessimist in me thinks that PL is in really bad shape.
I have a feeling that this is a transitory period before the switch to SC2. No announced sponsor yet for team8 and apparently no sponsor for PL and no plans for PL GF, the biggest event for BW esports. It makes sense that the season is cut in half just in case everyone is ready to move on when the first half is over.
On November 17 2011 20:17 Hassybaby wrote: I wanted to start watching the Pro-League this time, to possibly start getting into BW. But my main confusion is about how they could remove the Ace match. Isn't that a significant part of the Pro-League? And also, won't it backfire a bit, since I guess teams may send their Ace for the final game anyways?
you'd rather secure the win in the first 3 games rather than gamble on the last two (unless the maps are unfavourable or whatever).
But the other team would be thinking the same, so they may send out snipers on maps where they think you'll be sending out your ace.
I've always felt that Game 4 in these situations is the critical one, and that's where you want your best. If you're down 2-1 then you need your best to save you. If you're up 2-1 then you want your best to make sure there isn't a final set
No ace match should be pretty interesting, and prove to be bad in some cases, luckily Oz isn't a team anymore, they would've lost a lot in this format... good luck to STX I suppose though D:
This is strange.... practically it transforms into an organized "friendly match" competition. No Ace + No GF = not a true e-sport event...and that's the truth of the situation. They won't even try as long as at the end of the day nobody will be called a true champion.
On November 17 2011 21:13 BLinD-RawR wrote: I'm definitely for this,sure there is no grand finals,but hey if it ain't grand we can have 2 of them am I right?
No Ace and bo5. Autowin for team8? They have the deepest superstar lineup while CJ has the deepest A-class lineup. Obviously the rule change wasn't made with team8 in mind but it doesn't help refuting suspicions of bias; after all dream teams ruin leagues, especially overnight monopolistic dream teams (e.g. Real Madrid and their 350m euro spending in one season, or Man City and their oil money mercenaries)
Okay, I read around half of all comments but I didn't see any information regarding SC2 in proleague. Is there any news about this at all or nothing yet?
On November 17 2011 21:19 THM wrote: Okay, I read around half of all comments but I didn't see any information regarding SC2 in proleague. Is there any news about this at all or nothing yet?
From the past Blizzcon, it's known that KeSPA showed it's interest in SC2, and has been confirmed that major BW teams bought power-computers etc. I think, even if it will be slow, the transition from BW to SC2 is inevitable...i expect a concrete news to appear sometime in Q1 2012
On November 17 2011 21:16 tyCe wrote: No Ace and bo5. Autowin for team8? They have the deepest superstar lineup while CJ has the deepest A-class lineup. Obviously the rule change wasn't made with team8 in mind but it doesn't help refuting suspicions of bias; after all dream teams ruin leagues, especially overnight monopolistic dream teams (e.g. Real Madrid and their 350m euro spending in one season, or Man City and their oil money mercenaries)
people will call auto win but we'll see, every team except STX has a great Bo5 lineup(yes I'm putting ACE above STX)
but we'll see,its gonna be big, its gonna be grand, could it be better well yes, but a lot things people suggest don't see the other side of whats going on, as in why KeSPA has taken such decisions, since we don't reallt know we can't really argue about it.
well there is no SC2 in the proleague at least, pros can stick to only one game.
On November 17 2011 21:14 ReboundEU wrote: This is strange.... practically it transforms into an organized "friendly match" competition. No Ace + No GF = not a true e-sport event...and that's the truth of the situation. They won't even try as long as at the end of the day nobody will be called a true champion.
On November 17 2011 21:19 THM wrote: Okay, I read around half of all comments but I didn't see any information regarding SC2 in proleague. Is there any news about this at all or nothing yet?
On November 17 2011 21:14 ReboundEU wrote: This is strange.... practically it transforms into an organized "friendly match" competition. No Ace + No GF = not a true e-sport event...and that's the truth of the situation. They won't even try as long as at the end of the day nobody will be called a true champion.
Yes friendly match sums it up perfectly. Also, if two of JD, Bisu and Flash have a bad day in the OSL or get cheesed it is very well possible that we won't see any JD-Flash, JD-Bisu or Flash-Bisu at all in the next year because of cutting Ace matches.
On November 17 2011 21:14 ReboundEU wrote: This is strange.... practically it transforms into an organized "friendly match" competition. No Ace + No GF = not a true e-sport event...and that's the truth of the situation. They won't even try as long as at the end of the day nobody will be called a true champion.
On November 17 2011 21:26 Fenrax wrote: Yes friendly match sums it up perfectly. Also, if two of JD, Bisu and Flash have a bad day in the OSL or get cheesed it is very well possible that we won't see any JD-Flash, JD-Bisu or Flash-Bisu at all in the next year because of cutting Ace matches.
I honestly think we'll see more of those matches now, as people will save their aces till later in the match, thereby increasing the chances of it happening. At the very least it'll happen with a similar frequency to the BO7 format from last year, since that rarely went into ace matches anyway. But when compared to BO5 with ace match, it'll probably be less often.
On November 17 2011 21:14 ReboundEU wrote: This is strange.... practically it transforms into an organized "friendly match" competition. No Ace + No GF = not a true e-sport event...and that's the truth of the situation. They won't even try as long as at the end of the day nobody will be called a true champion.
LOL
can't say if you agree or disagree.
because what he says is clearly understandable
Would I ever agree that Proleague (in any format) is not a true e-sports event? Hell no.
On November 17 2011 21:14 ReboundEU wrote: This is strange.... practically it transforms into an organized "friendly match" competition. No Ace + No GF = not a true e-sport event...and that's the truth of the situation. They won't even try as long as at the end of the day nobody will be called a true champion.
LOL
can't say if you agree or disagree.
because what he says is clearly understandable
Would I ever agree that Proleague (in any format) is not a true e-sports event? Hell no.
So if Proleague introduces rainbow ponies and instead of BW, players have to fight with pillows to determine a winner..it's still a e-sport event? Because that's what i see in the new format...pillow-fight competition...
Atleast for me..the Fluff isn't there anymore..no need to get hyped anymore as long as there is no urge for 1 single champion that makes u'r blood boil at the match with anticipation of who will finally prevail after such a long tournament.
No Grand Final really upsets me and the split into two half seasons is fucking weird. Why not just have the 2 winners play a Grand Final match at the end of the season? ;\ Also not so happy with no ace match. I'm sort of okay with the times though cause matches are likely to end before GSL so I won't have to pick one or the other. Wonder if it was done that way on purpose.
On November 17 2011 21:42 NanaCry wrote: Waoh, that looks really bad... No more ace matches, no Grand Final, playoff final in one match.... Looks like they're giving up on BW.
On November 17 2011 21:26 Fenrax wrote: Yes friendly match sums it up perfectly. Also, if two of JD, Bisu and Flash have a bad day in the OSL or get cheesed it is very well possible that we won't see any JD-Flash, JD-Bisu or Flash-Bisu at all in the next year because of cutting Ace matches.
I honestly think we'll see more of those matches now, as people will save their aces till later in the match, thereby increasing the chances of it happening. At the very least it'll happen with a similar frequency to the BO7 format from last year, since that rarely went into ace matches anyway. But when compared to BO5 with ace match, it'll probably be less often.
Nope, we will see the battle of grands rarely now. Most of games between them happened in WL format. Now without WL, ace game would've been another option. But without that, the teams will simply avoid the risks.
Also there's no good in keeping them for later games. Usually every player trains on 1-2 maps that knows well, and that becomes his map inside the team. So we will see the big guns battling with each other only if happens for them to be comfortable on the same maps. And this is quite unlikely as they have different races.
Glad to see that changes and glad to see no SC2 for now. I think Bisu, Flash, Stork, Jaedong, Jangbi, Hero, Fantasy are just too good for SC2 and will absolutely destroy the skill ceiling breaking the game.
Brood War is 2x the game and I'm glad they are sticking to it. Now if only Brood War was made in 3D it would be the most amazing thing ever.
On November 17 2011 21:42 NanaCry wrote: Waoh, that looks really bad... No more ace matches, no Grand Final, playoff final in one match.... Looks like they're giving up on BW.
no,they're not.
if they did they'd introduce SC2 this season.
Not to drag this down to SC2/BW crap, but I suspect the reason the didn't introduce SC2 is probably because Gretech is still riding out that exclusivity deal and talks probably fell through with broadcasting rights. The GSL is competing with MLG, ESL, IEM, Dreamhack, etc. in the SC2 scene, so having OGN/KeSPA splitting the Korean viewership isn't a good business decision.
I really don't think KeSPA gives a damn about BW/SC2 fanboyism, its about the money, and they probably got their hands tied. Plus they could invest in trying to do what they know how to do with BW, or split the funds between BW and SC2 and potentially screw both of them up. THAT would be a deathblow IMO. KeSPA is doing the best with what they got IMO.
wait why is sc2 is being mention in these thread T_T please read the disclaimer ...
Supernovamaniac :
Disclaimer: This upcoming season is BROOD WAR Proleague. No mention of STARCRAFT 2 in ANY of the articles. DO NOT be stupid when posting here. If you're looking for flame war, PM me instead about how much BW sucks. We don't need flame wars in TL threads.
Edit : No wonder , these thread was put up in community news , hides back in his cave with laws books T_T.
i wonder if there's still winners league? too bad there's no more ace match but i think it's going to be more exciting and more strategic in a way. since teams should prepare for 5 good players and players can concentrate on 1 map per game and hopefully they can provide better matchups.
i wonder if they're going to release the schedule soon. we're coming home in the philippines this june and is planning to go a side trip to korea just to watch bw games but if it's off season...
On November 17 2011 22:01 TheBomb wrote: Glad to see that changes and glad to see no SC2 for now. I think Bisu, Flash, Stork, Jaedong, Jangbi, Hero, Fantasy are just too good for SC2 and will absolutely destroy the skill ceiling breaking the game.
Brood War is 2x the game and I'm glad they are sticking to it. Now if only Brood War was made in 3D it would be the most amazing thing ever.
Disclaimer: This upcoming season is BROOD WAR Proleague. No mention of STARCRAFT 2 in ANY of the articles. DO NOT be stupid when posting here. If you're looking for flame war, PM me instead about how much BW sucks. We don't need flame wars in TL threads.
Look when the first person brought the up SC2 rumor and proleague, and look at when the OP edited their post....
No one is flaming BW, and barely anything was said against SC2. It was a discussion about aspect of the upcoming proleague that had a lot of heat behind it. There is no fighting, so lets not go looking for one.
On November 17 2011 22:01 TheBomb wrote: Glad to see that changes and glad to see no SC2 for now. I think Bisu, Flash, Stork, Jaedong, Jangbi, Hero, Fantasy are just too good for SC2 and will absolutely destroy the skill ceiling breaking the game.
Brood War is 2x the game and I'm glad they are sticking to it. Now if only Brood War was made in 3D it would be the most amazing thing ever.
not that this format is a bad thing or anything. but, i just feel that a champions grand final would've been better instead of having two separate champions.
btw it only says there will be three rounds per half. does this mean winners league is off the table or am i missing something here???
On November 17 2011 22:12 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: Look when the first person brought the up SC2 rumor and proleague, and look at when the OP edited their post....
No one is flaming BW, and barely anything was said against SC2. It was a discussion about aspect of the upcoming proleague that had a lot of heat behind it. There is no fighting, so lets not go looking for one.
The reason why flame wars begin.
Anyways, Korean overall reactions are 'Why no ACE/Winnersleague?' at the moment, with few just thanking KeSPA for having Proleague, and few people outright bashing BW/KeSPA.
So at the moment, everyone has similar reactions to upcoming Proleague.
On November 17 2011 22:19 BloodDrunK wrote: not that this format is a bad thing or anything. but, i just feel that a champions grand final would've been better instead of having two separate champions.
btw it only says there will be three rounds per half. does this mean winners league is off the table or am i missing something here???
I'm sure the Netizens would pressure them about this come January.
Thx supernovamaniac for a translation (I also enjoy your stream).
Though it may be little disappointing to see the change in format of Proleague, however one has to consider the alternative, being NO Proleague at all or SC2 (or mixed) Proleague. The former would be definitive death to a game, the latter - at least some of us do not consider it alternative. What to worry about, is the diminishing number of new top players coming to BW, and I may agree that Bo5 format will discourage B-teamers. I hope that Proleague will not end being some sort of "Bufallo Bill Wild West Show", reduced to a dozen of inhumane-skilled competitors, who play vs each other over again and again.
If lineups are done blind (with no clue about opponent's lineup), there may be some meta-strategy involved (Agreed with BLinD-RawR), and we may easily see some top games from the beginning of the match, (as well as dodging the top players ofc).
So they lost their main sponsor, almost half of the teams disbanded (5 of 12 to be honest), MBC game disbands and there wont be GF anymore. This is really sad =/ And no SC2 as well -.-
I think there is reason behind every decision, and most of them are pretty easy to guess:
1. Bo5 - well, it takes less time to play than Bo7, right? Now, if you remember that MBC is gone, it makes perfect sense - there is WAY less time available for broadcasting!
2. No ACE system - for sake of BW, of e-sports, we need more players to be able to compete. Just think - don't we actually gain more than we loose? [ Also, for Bisu fans: he wont be a workhorse anymore. He might be able to prepare for OSL... Yeah, it's all made to favor him ;-) ]
3. Two winners - that one is the most difficult to see through... But I heard it's easier to obtain a sponsor if you have won a title... so it's probably for well-being of teams next season?
On November 17 2011 22:27 marcesr wrote: So they lost their main sponsor, almost half of the teams disbanded (5 of 12 to be honest), MBC game disbands and there wont be GF anymore. This is really sad =/ And no SC2 as well -.-
just because nothing about shinhan bank is said doesn't mean they lost them as a sponsor,please stop the nonsensical doomsaying.
On November 17 2011 19:45 KobraKay wrote: Wtf 12h and 16h KST its 3am and 7am around here (it will change to 4 and 8 once summer time comes but how long till that=/?). Dont they like europeans?
So by your logic, you want them to play at midnight and 4am in the morning to cater you guys? The fangirls need to sleep too, you know?
Why such a jerky response that comes off as someone who has no clue? Didnt you watch the last few years?! On weekends they played early because it was the weekend, kids/young adults/adults could watch the games and us Euros were kind of F*cked but we could watch games during the week because they were a few hours later (6pm in SK).
That also made sense for them. The 6pm in SK thing on week days allowed for people with work/school to watch games. Now its harder because some of them are still at school and most of them are still at work.
I never asked for such a stupid schedule like you suggested and Im making an effort to not post in such a stupid way as you did. The point is this is bad for us and for them also so think a little bit before you post and try to understand people's "logic" before calling them out.
I don't see what's your problem when fans from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean don't complain waking up early in the morning to watch BW streams.
The problem with having 6pm games is that the games might go very long, as much as 3-4 hours when it was Bo7, and I didn't mention days where Starleague qualifers run after Proleague matches, because there are days where games only end in 2300KST. I'm sure KeSPA doesn't want schooling girls to go back home so late at night, and I'm sure as well school doesn't end so late to watch matches at 1600KST. Sure, the working adults may miss the match, but don't ignore the possibility that they can come out of work early.
Well, your post makes me feel that you are completely ignorant of the audience, and caring only about yourself.
On November 17 2011 22:01 TheBomb wrote: Glad to see that changes and glad to see no SC2 for now. I think Bisu, Flash, Stork, Jaedong, Jangbi, Hero, Fantasy are just too good for SC2 and will absolutely destroy the skill ceiling breaking the game.
Brood War is 2x the game and I'm glad they are sticking to it. Now if only Brood War was made in 3D it would be the most amazing thing ever.
Honestly, alltho i am a SC2 player and fan. I wouldn´t like them swiching with WoL enyway. I mean i LOVE watching them play BW and i would LOVE it even more to see tham play the game i do but i think, as you already pointed out, SC2, for now, is not worth JD , Flash and Bisu. I hope tho they will keep on playing it from time to time, so when they swich they can demolish the rest of the sc2 pros and proove how worth the sc1 skill is in sc2. I think HotS might be the point at wich they could concider swiching.
(If eny1 disagrees with me i´m cool with that so no flaming needed, dont pretending i´m right in eny way)
On November 17 2011 22:33 Double T wrote: 3. Two winners - that one is the most difficult to see through... But I heard it's easier to obtain a sponsor if you have won a title... so it's probably for well-being of teams next season?
Seeing as the only teams that were disbanded were the ones that didn't make it into the post-season, I think you're right. Kespa8 gonna tear it up this season, yo.
To be honest, I'm most disappointed in the change to Bo5. Ace match was the first thing that struck me of course (no more YEAH STOOOOOR- wait WTF?!!? moments) but only needing 3-5 people to win each match when there are more A-class players per team now that 3 teams have disbanded will mean, as others have said, less time for the rookies. Maybe Bo5 is a reaction to the loss of MBCGame and OGN having to handle ALL the games, and the removal of the ace match is a concession so teams will be forced to come up with 5 people instead of just 4. As for having 2 champions per season, it would be interesting to see how it works out (two finals in smaller venues or two finals in PL Finals-size venues? will fans turn out for both?).
Nonetheless, BW is BW and I think I'd watch it even if they announced that an off-race match would be included in every game or something crazy like that lol. Finally, after 3 months PL is back and I'm feeling the hype!
Edit: I just noticed that the Tuesday/Wednesday Match is 3PM my time. I have work. FML no watching live for me for two days noooooooo Time to F5 LR threads furiously!
Why is this even considered as one season. Why can't we just look at it as two separate seasons each being 6 months. It's a lot more logical to me than saying that the season will have two winners.
On November 17 2011 22:40 sashkata wrote: Why is this even considered as one season. Why can't we just look at it as two separate seasons each being 6 months. It's a lot more logical to me than saying that the season will have two winners.
It's better to know that there will be at least 2 more seasons of BW, than to say next season 6 months and we'll see after that:-)
On November 17 2011 22:40 sashkata wrote: Why is this even considered as one season. Why can't we just look at it as two separate seasons each being 6 months. It's a lot more logical to me than saying that the season will have two winners.
It is probably because of sponsorship agreement, and means they will have to sign for longer period of time (and that is, we are guaranteed 2 seasons instead of one)
I can't believe that there will not be a Grand Finals. In any competition, people want to see the two best teams compete to see who is truly the greatest team. Having two winners is just not as interesting for spectators and it does not show which team is truly the best.
On November 17 2011 21:42 NanaCry wrote: Waoh, that looks really bad... No more ace matches, no Grand Final, playoff final in one match.... Looks like they're giving up on BW.
On November 17 2011 22:27 marcesr wrote: So they lost their main sponsor, almost half of the teams disbanded (5 of 12 to be honest), MBC game disbands and there wont be GF anymore. This is really sad =/ And no SC2 as well -.-
just because nothing about shinhan bank is said doesn't mean they lost them as a sponsor,please stop the nonsensical doomsaying.
You kinda said it yourself. There is already two seasons, so who knows if they'll introduce it for the public later, that the 2nd season will be "for" StarCraft II? Has there been some speculation/rumors by Korean netizens? Some people in this thread seem to think something similar, if i understood them right.
hmmm people are blind . is true there is not grand final,There are two Grand Finals cuz two seasons -__-. and about the new format .is the only way that kt dont repeat champion.this flash is imba
Damn, that are some terrible changes. It's like instead of promoting BW in its dark days they are trying hard to kill it off for good with the worst format they could come with.
The tension right before and during Ace matches, the change of pace and star factor during Winners League and Grand Finals were literally the most awesome aspects of Proleague. Now two of these things are gone for good and the GF is gimped a little being just half a year thing.
I will wait and see how it turns out in the end, but I'm definitely not pleased with those changes...not with a single one.
@Grettin: I kinda agree with your take on SC2 + Proleague.
I can´t however understand all this: "OH NO BW IS DEAD" stuff. I mean is it so dead that you are already counting how meny seasons are left? Yes BW will die eventually and i mean this should be no surprise to eny1. I´m just hoping that, if BW goes out, it does with a BANG! cuz the thought of having BW dying slowly and being rememberd as something unspectacular pains me. And i hope when BW is gone SC2 takes over its place more then eny other game.
On November 17 2011 23:11 gCgCrypto wrote: @Grettin: I kinda agree with your take on SC2 + Proleague.
I can´t however understand all this: "OH NO BW IS DEAD" stuff. I mean is it so dead that you are already counting how meny seasons are left? Yes BW will die eventually and i mean this should be no surprise to eny1. I´m just hoping that, if BW goes out, it does with a BANG! cuz the thought of having BW dying slowly and being rememberd as something unspectacular pains me. And i hope when BW is gone SC2 takes over its place more then eny other game.
Hey, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying anything about Broodwar dying(and especially wasn't counting how many seasons are left, at least intentionally). I'm just wondering since some/few of the "hardcore" viewers/followers in this thread seem to think the same i was thinking. I also wanted to ask if Korean netizens are already rumoring/speculating about the same thing.
Let me just say one thing again, even though these changes seem strange/stupid, Broodwar isn't dying just yet -- and i hope it won't.
No Grand Final....sorry but that just stupid. Having an long build up to a climatic finish is great and without a final it becomes more of a team practice league instead of a full on competitive season.
Not really a supporter of the no ace match system; I guess I understand why they did it but I don't like it.
But, on the other hand: PROLEAGUE IS CONFIRMED!!!!
I'll put money in that Flash is a good reason why the format changes. He was called "child labor Terran" for a reason.
I get the feelimg that there is a motivation to lessen the burden for players, especially Aces. Ace matches means practicing multiple matchups for an extra map, Winner's League format means practicing miltiple maps. And of that wasn't enough, SL practice.
On November 17 2011 23:11 gCgCrypto wrote: @Grettin: I kinda agree with your take on SC2 + Proleague.
I can´t however understand all this: "OH NO BW IS DEAD" stuff. I mean is it so dead that you are already counting how meny seasons are left? Yes BW will die eventually and i mean this should be no surprise to eny1. I´m just hoping that, if BW goes out, it does with a BANG! cuz the thought of having BW dying slowly and being rememberd as something unspectacular pains me. And i hope when BW is gone SC2 takes over its place more then eny other game.
Hey, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying anything about Broodwar dying(and especially wasn't counting how many seasons are left, at least intentionally). I'm just wondering since some/few of the "hardcore" viewers/followers in this thread seem to think the same i was thinking. I also wanted to ask if Korean netizens are already rumoring/speculating about the same thing.
Let me just say one thing again, even though these changes seem strange/stupid, Broodwar isn't dying just yet -- and i hope it won't.
No nonono sorry the second part was not directed to you :D more to those posting be4 you. Sorry for not making it clear.
Looks like I have LOTS of things to say this week on my show after reading this thread. Might as well turn the rumor section into 'snm bias' section. rofl.
On November 17 2011 23:23 Keone wrote: Did they ever BOTHER to even ask the fans???
They did. There was a thread here a couple of weeks ago where someone translated that KeSPA did a poll asking the Korean netizens regarding how Proleague should be run in this coming season. IIRC, Bo5 was the leading option, but whether KeSPA did use the poll result for this coming season's Proleague format, we wouldn't know.
Is there any reason they can't just come out halfway through the season and say "jk, we will have a grand final between winners of semester 1 and semester 2!!!!! [unless it's the same team]" Doesn't seem like it would be too hard to organize, and it's like a full year away. Even if you don't get Gwangahli (sp) beach surely they can get children's park or something again. Even STX masters cups always has a suitable venue.
as for b05, if broadcasting is tight I guess I understand. Disappointing, but at least it's something. Initial reaction to no ace match was really T_T, but now that I've thought about it most matches should be pretty high quality. Sucks to not have a bunch of bisu's vs jaedongs, or flash v jaedong, or flash v fantasy, or something along those lines for ace.
Don't know how the maps will work out, but it would really suck if it turns out a certain map will always be TVT and another zvz or something; then we'd see the likes of JD being "wasted" on a comparatively boring certain matchup every game. I hope map rotation will be good.
On November 17 2011 23:34 N.geNuity wrote: Is there any reason they can't just come out halfway through the season and say "jk, we will have a grand final between winners of semester 1 and semester 2!!!!! [unless it's the same team]" Doesn't seem like it would be too hard to organize, and it's like a full year away. Even if you don't get Gwangahli (sp) beach surely they can get children's park or something again. Even STX masters cups always has a suitable venue.
I'm sure the idiots over at KeSPA will realize that they need to make some changes when noone shows up to watch the games at 4 in the afternoon on weekdays, and OGN gets shitty TV ratings.
I don't mind the no Ace part. We wanted a best of 5 (those of us with limited time) and because of that it's important that one player is pulling a whole team. If your team only has to win 3 games and two of them are by one player... I dunno, it was ok in the past but overall I like this change. There's a romantic notion about the Ace match to be sure, but now we'll just have romanticise the idea of the player who leads the charge more.
No grand finals... Well I dunno, that's always fun, but it doesn't really matter... It's not a super legitimate match, it's just something that is fun. We still have the finals for each tournament and that is ok to me. Stanley cup winners don't play last years Stanley cup winners.
6 bo5s per week... I think I can handle that. We'll see. I think the matches this year will be a lot closer since the best players will be playing against the best players consistently, so maybe not too many bo5s, but at least we know probably 4-5 games and then we can get up. Sometimes watching 7 VODs in a row, even if it is exciting, is too much time.
Good changes, looking forward to the season, lets go team 8
People seem to have forgotten just a few months ago, we were reeling in insecurity that BW would continue at all. Be thankful for what we got, it's infinitely better than nothing.
Great, take away the excitement of team leagues by removing precisely the features that make it better than solo tournaments. And two winners? LOL this sounds like an elementary school contest.
EVERYBODY WINS GUYS, THERE ARE NO LOSERS IN LIFE, HERE ARE CANDIES FOR ALL
On November 17 2011 23:58 Taekwon wrote: People seem to have forgotten just a few months ago, we were reeling in insecurity that BW would continue at all. Be thankful for what we got, it's infinitely better than nothing.
indeed, we can't be so choosy.
I think this season is going to be something like a buffer to bring back the sponsors really, its just to say "HEY WE ARE NOT DEAD YET, PEOPLE STILL LOVE US, SO PLEASE COME BACK"
On November 18 2011 00:00 Suvorov wrote: Great, take away the excitement of team leagues by removing precisely the features that make it better than solo tournaments. And two winners? LOL this sounds like an elementary school contest.
EVERYBODY WINS GUYS, THERE ARE NO LOSERS IN LIFE, HERE ARE CANDIES FOR ALL
thx dude. but you have to be trolling me with "for the first time in bw history"...
Not really. My memory might fail me, but I don't remember any English commentator doing regularly full sets of PL, one of the biggest reason being that hardcore bw fan love korean commentators. What Sayle is doing is simply awesome.
Whaaaaaaat. How do you have 2 winners? That doesn't make any sense! Also no ace match is so stupid god That's when the big names usually play each other.
MEH Since no grand final I guess no awesome live event on the beach etc...... FML.
Pros need to practice like hell for this, Its going to be a more cutthroat, every match is going to count, people say its gonna be bad but I think its going to be awesome a lot more pressure goes out to every player now, NO ONE CAN AFFORD TO LOSE THEIR MATCHES.
The end doesn't matter, its how you get there that does.
Are you kidding me? It's like they're trying to drag Pro League in the mud, but considering the MBC network is hellbent on making another music channel -_-
On November 18 2011 00:02 DwD wrote: Whaaaaaaat. How do you have 2 winners? That doesn't make any sense! Also no ace match is so stupid god That's when the big names usually play each other.
MEH Since no grand final I guess no awesome live event on the beach etc...... FML.
bo5 with ace majorly fucks up teams like CJ, Kespa and on some degree KT, SKT, woongjing. Bo7 only would be good if there were two channels. OGN can't show SC 7 hours in row, also it's not good for teams. Only solution is to drain some players and form new teams, but apparently it's too difficult to find sponsors. Well other decisions are retarded.
On November 17 2011 19:45 KobraKay wrote: Wtf 12h and 16h KST its 3am and 7am around here (it will change to 4 and 8 once summer time comes but how long till that=/?). Dont they like europeans?
So by your logic, you want them to play at midnight and 4am in the morning to cater you guys? The fangirls need to sleep too, you know?
Why such a jerky response that comes off as someone who has no clue? Didnt you watch the last few years?! On weekends they played early because it was the weekend, kids/young adults/adults could watch the games and us Euros were kind of F*cked but we could watch games during the week because they were a few hours later (6pm in SK).
That also made sense for them. The 6pm in SK thing on week days allowed for people with work/school to watch games. Now its harder because some of them are still at school and most of them are still at work.
I never asked for such a stupid schedule like you suggested and Im making an effort to not post in such a stupid way as you did. The point is this is bad for us and for them also so think a little bit before you post and try to understand people's "logic" before calling them out.
I don't see what's your problem when fans from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean don't complain waking up early in the morning to watch BW streams.
The problem with having 6pm games is that the games might go very long, as much as 3-4 hours when it was Bo7, and I didn't mention days where Starleague qualifers run after Proleague matches, because there are days where games only end in 2300KST. I'm sure KeSPA doesn't want schooling girls to go back home so late at night, and I'm sure as well school doesn't end so late to watch matches at 1600KST. Sure, the working adults may miss the match, but don't ignore the possibility that they can come out of work early.
Well, your post makes me feel that you are completely ignorant of the audience, and caring only about yourself.
Again...no Im not caring only about myself. Other people pointed this problem out also.
You make a good point for bo7...but we dont have those anymore remember?...thats another reason why I posted about times. The starleague qualifiers are a rare ocasion so it shouldnt be factored in this discussion.
You assume 2 things, one that school ends before 4pm (around here it doesnt, unless you're either really young or really lucky) and that people have time to get home, second that working people can come home early to watch games...so it seems you're only trying to attack me without real reason just because you assume those 2 things and I dont. Yes those things can happen but how many workers get out of work that early to watch starcraft? Do you know many people that are able to do that? If so, boy are they lucky! About the kids and school, I based my argument on a few posts before my first one that stated that korean kids were at school or after school activities at those hours on week days. So, again Im not just talking shit to whine about not watching games (there are vods even tho I rather watch live). I expressed my concerns about europeans but the underlying reason was the view count and ratings as some people in this thread have mentioned already.
I still dont know why the hell are you attacking me for not understanding why are they making the schedule this way. You could have just expressed your point without that attitude and we could be debating without this tone. Its pretty simple, you believe its fine because everyone can watch it and fuck EU just wake up early "because school girls need to sleep to you know?". I believe the change is bad because it will make it easier for US to watch but bad for Korea and EU.
I believe with this attitude from both of us there no point in keeping this up because we're not going to agree with each other in this. You probably had your fair share of "shit I cant watch that because its EU time" and when you saw my post you rage because you think we always have it easy with game times around here, but that wasnt the case. I probably shouldnt assume in my first post that people would understand the underlying problem besides the fact that we get shafted.
Edit: Just so that you dont call me ignorant for no reason, there are people that I assume are actually from korean in this very page stating the same thing I did.
Well that format is odd, but I like the fact that a lot of the matches start at 10 pm my time, which gives me a good 2 hours to enjoy them before having to head to bed.
BO5 seems alright, it will keep the matches shorter so they can get through both in a reasonable amount of time. Which I am assuming is a big reason for dropping it from BO7 to BO5.
On November 17 2011 14:16 supernovamaniac wrote: -New Proleague season will be divided up into 2, half a year per. Each season has 3 rounds, and there will be total of 84 games, which means each team will play 21 matches. We will have TWO winners this season, instead of having a Grand Final.
I've never followed Proleague before (plan to this season!), and I'm confused. How is this different from just having two half-year seasons with one champion each, if there's nothing connecting them?
My first impression when I read the OP was FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU, but after some reconsideration..
I think actually the no ACE match will make EVERY MATCH more exciting, rather than "Oh ho hum, 2 players I don't care about are playing, it doesn't matter if this guy loses cuz there are a couple more matches/an ACE match left to go"
On the same note, bo5 (as opposed to bo7) will keep only the tightest of competition playing televised matches. This is great for spectatorship and reeling in sponsors, which is the most important right now than rookies getting some limelight. Not saying I didn't enjoy bo7 last season, I actually LOVED seeing rookies and having more games, but let's try to be appreciative of what they're doing here (keeping our beloved esport alive)
The two winner thing sounds like its just 2 smaller tournaments... but then why can't the two winners of each play for a "Grand Final"? (assuming its not both the same team ^_^)
On November 17 2011 19:45 KobraKay wrote: Wtf 12h and 16h KST its 3am and 7am around here (it will change to 4 and 8 once summer time comes but how long till that=/?). Dont they like europeans?
So by your logic, you want them to play at midnight and 4am in the morning to cater you guys? The fangirls need to sleep too, you know?
Why such a jerky response that comes off as someone who has no clue? Didnt you watch the last few years?! On weekends they played early because it was the weekend, kids/young adults/adults could watch the games and us Euros were kind of F*cked but we could watch games during the week because they were a few hours later (6pm in SK).
That also made sense for them. The 6pm in SK thing on week days allowed for people with work/school to watch games. Now its harder because some of them are still at school and most of them are still at work.
I never asked for such a stupid schedule like you suggested and Im making an effort to not post in such a stupid way as you did. The point is this is bad for us and for them also so think a little bit before you post and try to understand people's "logic" before calling them out.
I don't see what's your problem when fans from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean don't complain waking up early in the morning to watch BW streams.
The problem with having 6pm games is that the games might go very long, as much as 3-4 hours when it was Bo7, and I didn't mention days where Starleague qualifers run after Proleague matches, because there are days where games only end in 2300KST. I'm sure KeSPA doesn't want schooling girls to go back home so late at night, and I'm sure as well school doesn't end so late to watch matches at 1600KST. Sure, the working adults may miss the match, but don't ignore the possibility that they can come out of work early.
Well, your post makes me feel that you are completely ignorant of the audience, and caring only about yourself.
*chunk of text*
Let me apologise first if I sounded rude at the previous posts.
First of all, when this thread was first created, I as a BW fan, is extremely excited that Proleague is set to come back officially. It doesn't even matter what time the matches will start, when will the matches will be played, how many games will be played per matches, as long as Proleague is going to start, all in the world is fine.
Even though not a single match has been played, people started arguing that no ACE match is bad, Bo5 is bad etc etc. They're just thinking for their own entertainment. I understand most BW fans would want to have more matches to watch, but who knows if this could be the best Proleague ever since the start of it as players have more time to prepare specific strategies for specific maps? Yes, perhaps the matches starting early will have an impact on viewership, but who are we to judge?
It's just that your post flipped my switch that I've to definitely respond to that, because I simply cannot comprehend why people would want to complain timezone issues when it's pretty much the least important issue in regards to Proleague starting, and worth discussing.
Just FYI, the high school equivalent here starts at 7:30am in the morning, and ends at around 2:30pm in the afternoon. Which is why I have assumed SK's school time is approximately the same as my here. Again, this isn't really the main point of discussing the return of Proleague.
i really dont care about the new format.there are many cws many matches that see.i dont watch the 70% of the last proleague,cuz the big format.anyway im glad that pro bw is back.
Best setup for the PL is to have 4 Rounds of BO7 WITH Ace Match, and 1 Round for WL. Less matches and less games played by my fav? That's kinda of cutting WAY too much.
People are blowing this way out of proportion man (Unless I completely missread OP). "No ace match" is one of the things people are saying... They changed the ace match rule so that a team can't send a player more than once (even in ace match). That doesn't make it not an ace match all of a sudden. This mainly calls for strategical changes from the coaches. "No grand finals" is the other thing people are saying. As I understand it, the season is just split in two with one winner for each half season (total or two winners/season). In my eyes this just means two finals rather than one.
On November 18 2011 01:23 XsebT wrote: People are blowing this way out of proportion man (Unless I completely missread OP). "No ace match" is one of the things people are saying... They changed the ace match rule so that a team can't send a player more than once (even in ace match). That doesn't make it not an ace match all of a sudden. This mainly calls for strategical changes from the coaches. "No grand finals" is the other thing people are saying. As I understand it, the season is just split in two with one winner for each half season (total or two winners/season). In my eyes this just means two finals rather than one.
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No grand finals? I was starting to watch proleague last season and I can't believe a league will have no grand finals. Thats, thats just... thats just not right.
Also, no ace takes away so many interesting final game scenarios :/
On November 18 2011 01:23 XsebT wrote: People are blowing this way out of proportion man (Unless I completely missread OP). "No ace match" is one of the things people are saying... They changed the ace match rule so that a team can't send a player more than once (even in ace match). That doesn't make it not an ace match all of a sudden. This mainly calls for strategical changes from the coaches. "No grand finals" is the other thing people are saying. As I understand it, the season is just split in two with one winner for each half season (total or two winners/season). In my eyes this just means two finals rather than one.
How is it still an "ace match" in anything but name? I don't see why you feel it hasn't been changed? You aren't going to see the two team's best players duke it out, you'll just see the best players the teams have left. And given that one team has to be down 2-1 for there to be an ace match, one team is going to be on the verge of elimination, and probably sending their ace just to get to the ace match, no?
If you remove the only thing that makes the ace match different than any other match, what makes it still worthy of being the ace match?
On November 18 2011 01:23 XsebT wrote: People are blowing this way out of proportion man (Unless I completely missread OP). "No ace match" is one of the things people are saying... They changed the ace match rule so that a team can't send a player more than once (even in ace match). That doesn't make it not an ace match all of a sudden. This mainly calls for strategical changes from the coaches. "No grand finals" is the other thing people are saying. As I understand it, the season is just split in two with one winner for each half season (total or two winners/season). In my eyes this just means two finals rather than one.
How is it still an "ace match" in anything but name? I don't see why you feel it hasn't been changed? You aren't going to see the two team's best players duke it out, you'll just see the best players the teams have left. And given that one team has to be down 2-1 for there to be an ace match, one team is going to be on the verge of elimination, and probably sending their ace just to get to the ace match, no?
If you remove the only thing that makes the ace match different than any other match, what makes it still worthy of being the ace match?
Hey nerd,just think that u cant have JD vs Flash 2 times in the cws,too hard understand ? seriously i better stop read those comments.made me angry how people cry for nothing, the new format gonna be more hard for the simple reason there is not ace player to get the win.gonna be more strategy factor from the manager GG
On November 18 2011 01:23 XsebT wrote: People are blowing this way out of proportion man (Unless I completely missread OP). "No ace match" is one of the things people are saying... They changed the ace match rule so that a team can't send a player more than once (even in ace match). That doesn't make it not an ace match all of a sudden. This mainly calls for strategical changes from the coaches. "No grand finals" is the other thing people are saying. As I understand it, the season is just split in two with one winner for each half season (total or two winners/season). In my eyes this just means two finals rather than one.
How is it still an "ace match" in anything but name? I don't see why you feel it hasn't been changed? You aren't going to see the two team's best players duke it out, you'll just see the best players the teams have left. And given that one team has to be down 2-1 for there to be an ace match, one team is going to be on the verge of elimination, and probably sending their ace just to get to the ace match, no?
If you remove the only thing that makes the ace match different than any other match, what makes it still worthy of being the ace match?
Call it match point, call it final game, call it whatever you. I still call it ace match, because that's what we starcraft folk usually call the last and deciding game in a team match.
On November 17 2011 19:45 KobraKay wrote: Wtf 12h and 16h KST its 3am and 7am around here (it will change to 4 and 8 once summer time comes but how long till that=/?). Dont they like europeans?
So by your logic, you want them to play at midnight and 4am in the morning to cater you guys? The fangirls need to sleep too, you know?
Why such a jerky response that comes off as someone who has no clue? Didnt you watch the last few years?! On weekends they played early because it was the weekend, kids/young adults/adults could watch the games and us Euros were kind of F*cked but we could watch games during the week because they were a few hours later (6pm in SK).
That also made sense for them. The 6pm in SK thing on week days allowed for people with work/school to watch games. Now its harder because some of them are still at school and most of them are still at work.
I never asked for such a stupid schedule like you suggested and Im making an effort to not post in such a stupid way as you did. The point is this is bad for us and for them also so think a little bit before you post and try to understand people's "logic" before calling them out.
I don't see what's your problem when fans from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean don't complain waking up early in the morning to watch BW streams.
The problem with having 6pm games is that the games might go very long, as much as 3-4 hours when it was Bo7, and I didn't mention days where Starleague qualifers run after Proleague matches, because there are days where games only end in 2300KST. I'm sure KeSPA doesn't want schooling girls to go back home so late at night, and I'm sure as well school doesn't end so late to watch matches at 1600KST. Sure, the working adults may miss the match, but don't ignore the possibility that they can come out of work early.
Well, your post makes me feel that you are completely ignorant of the audience, and caring only about yourself.
*chunk of text*
Let me apologise first if I sounded rude at the previous posts.
First of all, when this thread was first created, I as a BW fan, is extremely excited that Proleague is set to come back officially. It doesn't even matter what time the matches will start, when will the matches will be played, how many games will be played per matches, as long as Proleague is going to start, all in the world is fine.
Even though not a single match has been played, people started arguing that no ACE match is bad, Bo5 is bad etc etc. They're just thinking for their own entertainment. I understand most BW fans would want to have more matches to watch, but who knows if this could be the best Proleague ever since the start of it as players have more time to prepare specific strategies for specific maps? Yes, perhaps the matches starting early will have an impact on viewership, but who are we to judge?
It's just that your post flipped my switch that I've to definitely respond to that, because I simply cannot comprehend why people would want to complain timezone issues when it's pretty much the least important issue in regards to Proleague starting, and worth discussing.
Just FYI, the high school equivalent here starts at 7:30am in the morning, and ends at around 2:30pm in the afternoon. Which is why I have assumed SK's school time is approximately the same as my here. Again, this isn't really the main point of discussing the return of Proleague.
Im glad we both got to post in a more calm manner. I can understand and relate to your post now. Yes im excited and in the end what matters is exactly that, proleague is going to start once more and we're going to have the pleasure to watch BW once more. I couldnt agree more.
The difference between our first posts was that I saw this and assumed the worse and you saw this and just got excited because theres still PL. In that sense yes I should be gratefull there is still a BW PL in the first place and start wondering if the times would lead to its downfall later after we get concrete facts and real numbers.
I apologize if I sounded like a whine kid in my first post. It wasnt the point of it.
I'll be happy to see you in LR threads for PL especially when CJ beats SKT lol GL HF!
On November 18 2011 01:23 XsebT wrote: People are blowing this way out of proportion man (Unless I completely missread OP). "No ace match" is one of the things people are saying... They changed the ace match rule so that a team can't send a player more than once (even in ace match). That doesn't make it not an ace match all of a sudden. This mainly calls for strategical changes from the coaches. "No grand finals" is the other thing people are saying. As I understand it, the season is just split in two with one winner for each half season (total or two winners/season). In my eyes this just means two finals rather than one.
How is it still an "ace match" in anything but name? I don't see why you feel it hasn't been changed? You aren't going to see the two team's best players duke it out, you'll just see the best players the teams have left. And given that one team has to be down 2-1 for there to be an ace match, one team is going to be on the verge of elimination, and probably sending their ace just to get to the ace match, no?
If you remove the only thing that makes the ace match different than any other match, what makes it still worthy of being the ace match?
Call it match point, call it final game, call it whatever you. I still call it ace match, because that's what we starcraft folk usually call the last and deciding game in a team match.
Yes. We call it that because it has (had) special rules that allow each team to send out its best player, or ace, even if that player has played before, hence the special name. If there is no such provision, there's no reason to call it anything. It makes exactly as much sense to call the Xth set of a BoX in an individual league an "ace match."
On November 18 2011 01:34 ZeromuS wrote: No grand finals? I was starting to watch proleague last season and I can't believe a league will have no grand finals. Thats, thats just... thats just not right.
Also, no ace takes away so many interesting final game scenarios :/
well, it does; it's simply two one-half year seasons. Each half-year season has a full playoff of 4 teams, so it'll feel like a perfectly good final (from what I understand of OP)
just all us fans of proleague are used to its history of having yearly grand grand finals. The league still has playoffs and finals, just not necessarily in the form we all lub.
I just do not enjoy the intention's behind the system i would rather see a Bo10 most teams seem to be deep enough to put up that many players. Also the Ace matches are the best part of any team league.
BO5 means we won't really get to see anyone new. No Ace means we won't really get to see the best players play each other often. No Grand Finals is the worst idea I've heard... The whole point of a league is to crown a winner. One winner.
basically they have abadoned what was the best in the league. And even a league without a winner? What t... is that? I dont really see how this could motivate players like bisu, flash, fantasy etc.. that they have won, but practically they are 2nd..
On November 18 2011 02:09 BlueyD wrote: That... sounds like a terrible decision.
BO5 means we won't really get to see anyone new. No Ace means we won't really get to see the best players play each other often. No Grand Finals is the worst idea I've heard... The whole point of a league is to crown a winner. One winner.
Not sure if you recall, but last season we got to see lots of new blood. This season we are not in the same situation, we are in survival mode.
You want a league full of ace matches? Watch OSL. PL is about a TEAM winning, I actually am glad Flash can't carry their team to victory now, if KT wins it will be because KT wins, not because they have Flash
i love how people come up with these weird logic jumps
"a league without a winner" >>> they have a winner for the first half and then a winner for the second half. how hard is that so to comprehend? we should be thinking of the league as two distinct leagues from hereon.
No grand finals is kinda boring. But I like bo5 format more, should get to see a lot of new players play. After all it's supposed to be a team effort not an ace carrying the team.
My class starts at 16:00 on Tuesday and Wednesday. Not to mention that conflicts with SC2 matches. That makes me super sad panda. I will definitely try to get to every other match possible though, ACE fighting!!!!11
On November 17 2011 22:37 Sawamura wrote: Can't wait for these song to be played at the beginning of each proleague games . I feel my APM is rising again <3 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! + Show Spoiler +
I love how GEMA screws over any BW video i'm trying to watch on youtube, even can't watch some of the PL games from Mokti's links, fingers crossed they don't flag this seasons videos or somebody cuts out the intros, jeez
My god the format, THE FORMAT. Sure games were super long but man, less BW per game, and no Ace?! WTH. I don't like the implications, but no judgement shall be passed before i see it in action.
FWIW, I think the no-grand-final thing is so easy to correct. Especially if the winner of the first season doesn't look good in the 2nd season. After all, it's not difficult to just add one more match to the end of the season if there's enough interest in it.
The Bo5 no KOF format is interesting. Before the season, I thought there would be 6 rounds with 2 rounds being WL. After all, gotta give fanboys and fangirls a chance to see Bisu and Flash in all their glory going for AKs. But instead they're nerfing star players. I really hope they can still maintain interest doing this. Lord knows the ratings is going be important for sponsorship and future seasons.
On November 18 2011 02:18 zeehar wrote: i love how people come up with these weird logic jumps
"a league without a winner" >>> they have a winner for the first half and then a winner for the second half. how hard is that so to comprehend? we should be thinking of the league as two distinct leagues from hereon.
On November 18 2011 02:18 zeehar wrote: i love how people come up with these weird logic jumps
"a league without a winner" >>> they have a winner for the first half and then a winner for the second half. how hard is that so to comprehend? we should be thinking of the league as two distinct leagues from hereon.
It's the fact everyone wants a grand final, final. Instead of two finals in two seasons. They had to shrink it down because they only have one network now and we won't get to see as many players now. How will you let the other guys develop? There just isn't the same amount of opportunity anymore for them to excel especially once they get knocked out of the OSL.
They'll probably find themselves playing more and more SC2 more than anything else. It's a bitter pill to swallow. I understand it, but there is nothing like a grand final tying everything together rather than having two bite size seasons with three rounds each.
On November 18 2011 01:23 XsebT wrote: People are blowing this way out of proportion man (Unless I completely missread OP). "No ace match" is one of the things people are saying... They changed the ace match rule so that a team can't send a player more than once (even in ace match). That doesn't make it not an ace match all of a sudden. This mainly calls for strategical changes from the coaches. "No grand finals" is the other thing people are saying. As I understand it, the season is just split in two with one winner for each half season (total or two winners/season). In my eyes this just means two finals rather than one.
How is it still an "ace match" in anything but name? I don't see why you feel it hasn't been changed? You aren't going to see the two team's best players duke it out, you'll just see the best players the teams have left. And given that one team has to be down 2-1 for there to be an ace match, one team is going to be on the verge of elimination, and probably sending their ace just to get to the ace match, no?
If you remove the only thing that makes the ace match different than any other match, what makes it still worthy of being the ace match?
Call it match point, call it final game, call it whatever you. I still call it ace match, because that's what we starcraft folk usually call the last and deciding game in a team match.
Uh... I don't mind the change, but it's called an ace match because you send your best player, aka your ace... Why would any team send their best player last? Ideally you'd want them to play in the first 3 games, maybe the 4th if you were 1-1 in the third. 5th only if you were 2-1 in the 4th.
So yeah, I think you don't know what ace means or something. It's like a fighter ace. You best pilot. Gets a lot of kills. You don't wanna lose before the 5th match having not played your best player.
On November 18 2011 02:18 zeehar wrote: i love how people come up with these weird logic jumps
"a league without a winner" >>> they have a winner for the first half and then a winner for the second half. how hard is that so to comprehend? we should be thinking of the league as two distinct leagues from hereon.
It's the fact everyone wants a grand final, final. Instead of two finals in two seasons. They had to shrink it down because they only have one network now and we won't get to see as many players now. How will you let the other guys develop? There just isn't the same amount of opportunity anymore for them to excel especially once they get knocked out of the OSL.
They'll probably find themselves playing more and more SC2 more than anything else. It's a bitter pill to swallow. I understand it, but there is nothing like a grand final tying everything together rather than having two bite size seasons with three rounds each.
:/
I agree with Zeehar, it's just two seperate leagues now, not two half leagues. Maybe they can add in a Grand Finals for winner of round 1 and winner of round 2.
I prefer BO5 and less days a week, imo. Less stress on players, more time to prep for individual leagues.
On November 18 2011 02:18 zeehar wrote: i love how people come up with these weird logic jumps
"a league without a winner" >>> they have a winner for the first half and then a winner for the second half. how hard is that so to comprehend? we should be thinking of the league as two distinct leagues from hereon.
It's the fact everyone wants a grand final, final. Instead of two finals in two seasons. They had to shrink it down because they only have one network now and we won't get to see as many players now. How will you let the other guys develop? There just isn't the same amount of opportunity anymore for them to excel especially once they get knocked out of the OSL.
They'll probably find themselves playing more and more SC2 more than anything else. It's a bitter pill to swallow. I understand it, but there is nothing like a grand final tying everything together rather than having two bite size seasons with three rounds each.
:/
I agree with Zeehar, it's just two seperate leagues now, not two half leagues. Maybe they can add in a Grand Finals for winner of round 1 and winner of round 2.
I prefer BO5 and less days a week, imo. Less stress on players, more time to prep for individual leagues.
They only have one individual league to prepare for now and even then that only used to effect players like JD or Flash. So I really don't see the point. There's always been a lot of time to prepare for matches. I don't buy it.
I like all of these changes. Bo5s without repeating players is a great compromise between developing new players/solid lineups, balancing out the teams, and fitting PL into OGN's broadcast schedule.
On November 18 2011 02:18 zeehar wrote: i love how people come up with these weird logic jumps
"a league without a winner" >>> they have a winner for the first half and then a winner for the second half. how hard is that so to comprehend? we should be thinking of the league as two distinct leagues from hereon.
It's the fact everyone wants a grand final, final. Instead of two finals in two seasons. They had to shrink it down because they only have one network now and we won't get to see as many players now. How will you let the other guys develop? There just isn't the same amount of opportunity anymore for them to excel especially once they get knocked out of the OSL.
They'll probably find themselves playing more and more SC2 more than anything else. It's a bitter pill to swallow. I understand it, but there is nothing like a grand final tying everything together rather than having two bite size seasons with three rounds each.
:/
I agree with Zeehar, it's just two seperate leagues now, not two half leagues. Maybe they can add in a Grand Finals for winner of round 1 and winner of round 2.
I prefer BO5 and less days a week, imo. Less stress on players, more time to prep for individual leagues.
They only have one individual league to prepare for now and even then that only used to effect players like JD or Flash. So I really don't see the point. There's always been a lot of time to prepare for matches. I don't buy it.
The other thing to keep in mind is that MBC is no longer around to support broadcasts in PL. Nor are they around to help support a grand finals of that size - Grand Finals were a combination of MBC and OGN support.
Also OGN and MBC were iffy on the BO7 schedule because it was causing issues with other programs and time slots etc.
On November 18 2011 02:18 zeehar wrote: i love how people come up with these weird logic jumps
"a league without a winner" >>> they have a winner for the first half and then a winner for the second half. how hard is that so to comprehend? we should be thinking of the league as two distinct leagues from hereon.
It's the fact everyone wants a grand final, final. Instead of two finals in two seasons. They had to shrink it down because they only have one network now and we won't get to see as many players now. How will you let the other guys develop? There just isn't the same amount of opportunity anymore for them to excel especially once they get knocked out of the OSL.
They'll probably find themselves playing more and more SC2 more than anything else. It's a bitter pill to swallow. I understand it, but there is nothing like a grand final tying everything together rather than having two bite size seasons with three rounds each.
:/
I agree with Zeehar, it's just two seperate leagues now, not two half leagues. Maybe they can add in a Grand Finals for winner of round 1 and winner of round 2.
I prefer BO5 and less days a week, imo. Less stress on players, more time to prep for individual leagues.
They only have one individual league to prepare for now and even then that only used to effect players like JD or Flash. So I really don't see the point. There's always been a lot of time to prepare for matches. I don't buy it.
The other thing to keep in mind is that MBC is no longer around to support broadcasts in PL. Nor are they around to help support a grand finals of that size - Grand Finals were a combination of MBC and OGN support.
Also OGN and MBC were iffy on the BO7 schedule because it was causing issues with other programs and time slots etc.
Well aware of that as I did touch base on that earlier and the Bo7's do run long.
This is really depressing news for me. I'm not exaggerating at all when I say that a yearly Grand Final, Ace matches and Winners league where probably my favourite things about the entire Proleague.
BvJ is literally my favourite matchup in all of BW and now we're gonna be robbed of a bunch of those which would have been ace matches ;_;
Two "winners" and no ace match? Questionable, but all I really want is to see some good games, that that is (hopefully) inevitable regardless of format details.
On November 18 2011 03:26 KevinIX wrote: The Ace thing is fine. I mean they can still save their Ace player for game 5.
I'm not so sure about having 2 winners.
You wouldn't want your ace for game 5, cause the series could end on game 3. I figure we will see most ace players play in either set 1 or 3. (Set the tempo at the start, or reset it at set 3 to a positive)
Why take out winner leagues , I don't get It why would kespa do these to us ? . Does these mean I won't be able to see Stats all kill skt1 for the third time ...
I guess WL is out cuz they didn't want Team 8 dominating...could you imagine that? "Oh you stopped Baby, ok, we'll send out JD." Other than that, I am a sad panda...at least leave the Bo7!
Actually, reading again, if their objective with the no-Ace was to deepen teams, why move it to BO5? I guess because of time. Seems like a BO7 no Ace situation would flesh out a team more than a BO5.
I still don't know why people are upset about a grand finals...they're still playing finals, I dunno...finals are a finals to me. Xx
As far as Winner's league, I think they took that out because they are trying to eliminate team "aces" winning everything? Same reason they removed Ace match, I guess they want to focus more on the team matches in PL...IDK two rounds of WL was way too much and quite boring, but I think we could have kept one round. :/
- I'm pretty much okay with the 2 half-season format. Thing I would like clarified: is the playoff format an end-of-year challenge with each half's winner based on regular-season record only, or a playoff that will happen at the end of each half? If the former, I'm fine with it; if the latter, kind of dumb. - Pure Bo5: I like the idea; then again I'm a Stars fan so yeah. On the other hand, I don't know when the last time this format was used was: is this new or a super-old-school reversion? - Playoff format: I assume if semis are 3-days and finals are 1, then the 3-day matches will probably be Bo5 and the final Bo7? - Playoff format: "Challenge". Guessing this is standard 4 plays 3, winner plays 2, winner plays 1, right?
I was really excited about this upcoming season of pro league, but of course KeSPA had to rain on my parade by changing things to a BO5 format with no ace match. What is even more frustrating is that there is no longer a grand final. I can't believe they are taking out the Winner's League, so much more tension and excitement over the pro league format. Even sc2 has a winner's league format, stop dropping the ball KeSPA.
two winners ? come on ^^ why no epic bo19 end final fight xD where it depends on the skill of the manager and cook to win cause both teams out of players ^^
On November 18 2011 05:58 Baptista wrote: every bw post i read these days have an bolded text at the top preventing any sc2 fans spamming bw threads. Kind of... you know...
On November 18 2011 05:58 Baptista wrote: every bw post i read these days have an bolded text at the top preventing any sc2 fans spamming bw threads. Kind of... you know...
Necessary?
a sign of the times; more reason to be excited for this season~~
I don't know about the two seasons, I guess they want to give two teams a chance to say they won a championship this season?
Also, the ace match isn't removed; teams will just have to be more careful in how they use their best player (i.e. Flash) and will have to develop more end-series strategies. I kinda of like the change, shake up the tournament a bit.
On November 18 2011 01:23 XsebT wrote: People are blowing this way out of proportion man (Unless I completely missread OP). "No ace match" is one of the things people are saying... They changed the ace match rule so that a team can't send a player more than once (even in ace match). That doesn't make it not an ace match all of a sudden. This mainly calls for strategical changes from the coaches. "No grand finals" is the other thing people are saying. As I understand it, the season is just split in two with one winner for each half season (total or two winners/season). In my eyes this just means two finals rather than one.
How is it still an "ace match" in anything but name? I don't see why you feel it hasn't been changed? You aren't going to see the two team's best players duke it out, you'll just see the best players the teams have left. And given that one team has to be down 2-1 for there to be an ace match, one team is going to be on the verge of elimination, and probably sending their ace just to get to the ace match, no?
If you remove the only thing that makes the ace match different than any other match, what makes it still worthy of being the ace match?
Call it match point, call it final game, call it whatever you. I still call it ace match, because that's what we starcraft folk usually call the last and deciding game in a team match.
Uh... I don't mind the change, but it's called an ace match because you send your best player, aka your ace... Why would any team send their best player last? Ideally you'd want them to play in the first 3 games, maybe the 4th if you were 1-1 in the third. 5th only if you were 2-1 in the 4th.
So yeah, I think you don't know what ace means or something. It's like a fighter ace. You best pilot. Gets a lot of kills. You don't wanna lose before the 5th match having not played your best player.
God damn this discussion... You're right if you relate it directly to card games. What I'm saying is that "ace match" is now sc slang for that deciding match. This is not gonna change for me at least - I'm not gonna start shouting MATCH POINT. You're still gonna pick the best player available anyway - a team might have just used an 'ace' too soon.
The main point is that while this is different, people are going completely overboard with how bad they think it is. PL now demands more skill depth in a team and more strategy in the coach's player selection. I find it dumb to call it bad simply because it's different.
I guess the reason people are upset is because they wanna see flash vs jaedong (and alike) ever time kt and t8 meets. Personally, I would much rather maintain the mystery and hype that revolves around such good players. - Have them meeting be a special treat once in a while.
Im not a huge BW fan or anything but I feel for them big time with this shitty format. Im glad pro-league is continuing but there is just no way this will generate the hype or viewership that previous formats did
-BO5 will return this season. In order to keep the new players playing in Proleague, they got rid of ACE MATCH system, so player who played in any of previous 4 sets cannot play again.
So sad. The future of BW looks really dark now. Not only have a lot of B-teamers been forced to quit, but they are also making it harder to play for the existing B-teamers. Like Hiya said, it's just a waste of time to try to become a BW progamer now, and this change just makes his words even more true. I don't know what KESPA is trying to do honestly. Pretty much all progamers prefered BO7.
T.T They want to see more players so they're making it a Bo5. Seems kinda counter productive. And I will miss ace matches sorely. Nothing more dramatic than an Ace match.
On November 18 2011 01:23 XsebT wrote: What I'm saying is that "ace match" is now sc slang for that deciding match. This is not gonna change for me at least - I'm not gonna start shouting MATCH POINT.
No you're completely wrong. Ace match = Ace match, Match point = Match point, but Match point =/= Ace match. You can call still call it what ever you want that's your own prerogative, but you are still wrong. Also don't act like you speak for the whole of the BW community, especially when you're trying to save your own argument.
On November 18 2011 01:23 XsebT wrote: PL now demands more skill depth in a team and more strategy in the coach's player selection. I find it dumb to call it bad simply because it's different.
Except it actually encourages the opposite since it uses a stupid Bo5 format. I hope you enjoy seeing KT only sending out Flash, Stats, and Action because that is all they will ever send out with this current format. This is just going to push even more B teamers and even lesser A teamers over to SC2 as they won't hardly ever get the chance to play. If they keep this format for more than a few seasons you can also expect the teams to cull their numbers by more than half as most of the current players will just be dead weight/glorified practice partners.
On November 18 2011 01:23 XsebT wrote: I guess the reason people are upset is because they wanna see flash vs jaedong (and alike) ever time kt and t8 meets. Personally, I would much rather maintain the mystery and hype that revolves around such good players. - Have them meeting be a special treat once in a while.
Again, with this format change you are going to see the top players clash so often that there will not be any excitement, hype, or "mystery" anymore around the players.
-BO5 will return this season. In order to keep the new players playing in Proleague, they got rid of ACE MATCH system, so player who played in any of previous 4 sets cannot play again.
So sad. The future of BW looks really dark now. Not only have a lot of B-teamers been forced to quit, but they are also making it harder to play for the existing B-teamers. Like Hiya said, it's just a waste of time to try to become a BW progamer now, and this change just makes his words even more true. I don't know what KESPA is trying to do honestly. Pretty much all progamers prefered BO7.
and most audiences preferred bo5 because they couldnt spend that much time watching a single match
edit: wow this thread is filled with a lot of whiners. its been said before, but proleague is a business, and what they were doing last year obviously didnt work out because of lower viewer ratings. with less matches and a smaller format (bo5) they want to trim down the focus and make each match more exciting because there are less games, which will hopefully bring more viewers.
I didn't know they had new players in BW? I just assumed most new players would transfer to SC2 knowing there is more money. Seems like a bad idea, they want to be drawing in viewers to BW, the best way to do that is show case the best players they got by allowing them to play more. Ace matches were what people lived for and I think it's the BW stars who kept the game alive.
On November 18 2011 08:46 emc wrote: I didn't know they had new players in BW? I just assumed most new players would transfer to SC2 knowing there is more money. Seems like a bad idea, they want to be drawing in viewers to BW, the best way to do that is show case the best players they got by allowing them to play more. Ace matches were what people lived for and I think it's the BW stars who kept the game alive.
There's new players and rookies all the time. Khan had quite few last year.
There are also a lot of 2-3 year players who are still developing. But there's just not as many slots for them as there used to be. Although sometimes you saw two no-names go at it last year, at least these no names got some exposure and a chance to thrive. We were blessed last year with the amount of progamers playing.
Look at it per set of every team playing one game.
2009-2010: Minimum 36 unique players, maximum 48 (or more if Ace is unique, but this was rare) 2010-2011: Minimum 40 unique players, maximum 60 (or more if Ace is unique, but this didn't happen, iirc) 2011-2010: Minimum 24 unique players, maximum 40 (absolute maximum)
24-40 unique players playing every set of 1 games per team is not a lot for the scene. Teams will still play developing players, but less frequently and with a much bigger penalty if they fail. The scene is shrinking, new players will catch on, and the future of BW is uncertain.
I like these decisions. I feel like what we've got here is the best which can be done to accommodate all fans. Remember Korean proBW is the only eSport with a significant and numerous casual following ie: not just nerds who play the game. These fans' gripe with the Bo7 formatt was that it reduced the chance for epic clashes between TBLS and whatnot. Whilst more hardcore fans preferred the Bo7 formatt as it gave strong up and comers air time and of course the obvious more games=]. So how to best balance things out? Bo5 no ace match! This Bo5 system will increase the chances of big names hitting each other and the no ace style will reward depth less than Bo7 but more than Bo5. Also a byproduct of this is that it ease's the pressure off OGN as the sole broadcaster who will do BACK TO BACK matches on the weekends! I also don't mind the proleague R1 and R2 style as this was how it was previously and as someone who started watching recently (2009) this'll be fun to watch!
On November 18 2011 08:46 emc wrote: I didn't know they had new players in BW? I just assumed most new players would transfer to SC2 knowing there is more money. Seems like a bad idea, they want to be drawing in viewers to BW, the best way to do that is show case the best players they got by allowing them to play more. Ace matches were what people lived for and I think it's the BW stars who kept the game alive.
There's new players and rookies all the time. Khan had quite few last year.
There are also a lot of 2-3 year players who are still developing. But there's just not as many slots for them as there used to be. Although sometimes you saw two no-names go at it last year, at least these no names got some exposure and a chance to thrive. We were blessed last year with the amount of progamers playing.
Look at it per set of every team playing one game.
2009-2010: Minimum 36 unique players, maximum 48 (or more if Ace is unique, but this was rare) 2010-2011: Minimum 40 unique players, maximum 60 (or more if Ace is unique, but this didn't happen, iirc) 2011-2010: Minimum 24 unique players, maximum 40 (absolute maximum)
24-40 unique players playing every set of 1 games per team is not a lot for the scene. Teams will still play developing players, but less frequently and with a much bigger penalty if they fail. The scene is shrinking, new players will catch on, and the future of BW is uncertain.
I think people are forgetting that when there were 12 teams most teams only had 1 good player and maybe a few more good but inconsistent players. Even last year with only 10 teams Bo7 led to a lot of By.Sun vs Perfective situations. But now that proleague is only 8 teams and fewer games per week there's no reason not to have Bo7, the talent is very consolidated and we'd see about the same quality players as Bo5 in 2007-2010.
The math in your posts sums it up pretty well too.
I really think that this new format for me , just made the whole league 30% less fun to watch/follow... GF and the ACE matches were part of the best to watch.
On November 18 2011 08:16 slappy wrote: lol wow a bunch of fuckin whiners. I for one am going to watch every match and love it, you probably will too
I'm honestly starting to hate a lot of posters who constantly find the worst in everything. But I guess that's the internet for you. To me it's good enough just knowing for sure when proleague starts and that they've got their shit together.
On November 18 2011 08:16 slappy wrote: lol wow a bunch of fuckin whiners. I for one am going to watch every match and love it, you probably will too
I'm honestly starting to hate a lot of posters who constantly find the worst in everything. But I guess that's the internet for you. To me it's good enough just knowing for sure when proleague starts and that they've got their shit together.
Negative Nancies :@
be a positive polly! i'm sure we'll enjoy the games and matches either way.
dont like the 2 winner system, thats kinda lame and really kills the spirit of winning.
bo5 without ace i dont mind though, because of the amount of depth that all the teams have this season, except for maybe STX and woonjin, though i thing woongjin is pretty deep
WHAT THE FUCK. Are they trying to kill Proleague? Who the hell decides this? They must be fucking retarded. Also, bo5 only, Kespa team wins, I don't even care who's the other "winner".
Edit: I guess I should say that it's nice that we will probably always be seeing relatively high quality players/matches, but I really feel sorry for the B-teamers, and I will ditch this if effOrt doesn't get a start as a result.
On November 18 2011 11:04 Mr.Brightside wrote: WHAT THE FUCK. Are they trying to kill Proleague? Who the hell decides this? They must be fucking retarded. Also, bo5 only, Kespa team wins, I don't even care who's the other "winner".
BW was pretty damn popular before Ace matches and Bo7 were the norm. Why do so many people expect BW to fail now?
I don't think the format switch is unreasonable:
* Matches were too long for viewers. * With MBC gone, OGN cannot carry the load of a Bo7 schedule on its own. Teams went from 10 to 8, but broadcasters went from 2 to 1. Do the math. * With a Bo5 format, you need to remove the Ace match for the sake of player variety.
Also:
* Two smaller seasons allow more agile planning. OGN can adapt quicker without changing rules in the middle of a tournament. * The smaller seasons and no WL also reward consistency in the earlier rounds. Last season, the team that finished last in R1 won the championship over the team that finished first (or second?). There is something wrong with that (and I am a KT fan). * You do have winners, just shorter tournaments, like Starleagues. We didn't expect the winners of the two-three yearly OSLs to duke it out to have a single winner, right? * There will be a month break between seasons. This is a good thing. * Not all teams have a total of 5 S-class and consistent A-class players. There will be rotation. * Bo5 no Ace match increases the impact of a successful Ace snipe. Sniping the Ace is worth nothing if he still gets to ROFLSTOMP your team in the Ace match (see: Flash). * Sending your Aces first is not a guaranteed win, especially with the higher risk involved with getting sniped.
On November 18 2011 01:23 XsebT wrote: What I'm saying is that "ace match" is now sc slang for that deciding match. This is not gonna change for me at least - I'm not gonna start shouting MATCH POINT.
No you're completely wrong. Ace match = Ace match, Match point = Match point, but Match point =/= Ace match. You can call still call it what ever you want that's your own prerogative, but you are still wrong. Also don't act like you speak for the whole of the BW community, especially when you're trying to save your own argument.
On November 18 2011 01:23 XsebT wrote: PL now demands more skill depth in a team and more strategy in the coach's player selection. I find it dumb to call it bad simply because it's different.
Except it actually encourages the opposite since it uses a stupid Bo5 format. I hope you enjoy seeing KT only sending out Flash, Stats, and Action because that is all they will ever send out with this current format. This is just going to push even more B teamers and even lesser A teamers over to SC2 as they won't hardly ever get the chance to play. If they keep this format for more than a few seasons you can also expect the teams to cull their numbers by more than half as most of the current players will just be dead weight/glorified practice partners.
On November 18 2011 01:23 XsebT wrote: I guess the reason people are upset is because they wanna see flash vs jaedong (and alike) ever time kt and t8 meets. Personally, I would much rather maintain the mystery and hype that revolves around such good players. - Have them meeting be a special treat once in a while.
Again, with this format change you are going to see the top players clash so often that there will not be any excitement, hype, or "mystery" anymore around the players.
Dear lord. I'm a pubic hair short of calling this a troll post. X_X However, it is (as should be evident to most around here) stupid enough that I think a heartfelt "shut the fuck up" is completely appropriate.
Edit: One thing though, I've been talking about my view on "ace match" this whole time. Whenever I've watched PL and it went to an ace match, for me the signifigance was in it being the last deciding game and these past 4/6 games now come down to this. The tension and the players fear of disappointing their team was what got me excited, and so that's what I have come to understand and appreciate about the term "ace match".
Just have January choose all aces, there's all the variety you can want.
I like Bo5, but not no ace match, more variety means we get more shitty players/games. Unless they're concerned that TBLS will fade out with no one to replace them.
On November 18 2011 11:40 Soap wrote: Just have January choose all aces, there's all the variety you can want.
I like Bo5, but not no ace match, more variety means we get more shitty players/games. Unless they're concerned that TBLS will fade out with no one to replace them.
But after all, this is a team league! It should represent which team is better - not which team has the best one or two aces. I believe this format is slightly superior at showing the skill depth of the teams. If that means "more shitty players/games" (which I personally don't see happening) then so be it.
On November 18 2011 11:51 ggrrg wrote: I really like the bo5/no ace system, but I don't understand why there won't be a grand final
The season is cut in half. There is one winner of each half season. Just think of this as two seperate competitions. The "season" term is more for the sake of sponsors, format changes and 'off seasons' as I see it.
On November 18 2011 12:05 RaiKageRyu wrote: Once again Bo3 from playoff and then having a single game for Finals is stupid.
Afford to rent a place for than one day please.
i heard they reduced the finals to just 1 BO5 because fans lose enthusiasm and they lose a shit ton of money on the second day
Really? I thought that for the 09 PL finals, it was something like 15k people showed up for the first day, and 40k on the second day.
Eh. I think I've come to terms with Bo5/No Ace. It's understandable, given the circumstances. But I do wish the weekday times could be changed...I mean, if the matches are shorter, then why not start at 6 or 7pm? I can't afford to miss any more classes, not even for BW T_T
And no grand finals. idk, it just kind of takes a lot of the prestige out of it. Instead of, "Hi, we're the 2012 champions," you only get to say, "Well... we won first half of 2012." Sigh... Oh well. Maybe if things go well this year, they'll have more leeway to change to a better format next year.
Kespa is favoring CJ major time with this format. Also, the 5set of the proleague half-finals will be terrible, and throughout the whole year, there will be no guarantee of any good matches.
I am fine with tweaking the format as they choose fit, under certain limits, but no-ace match is where I draw the line. Though I prefer bo7, I am fine with bo5, but we have to have an ace-match damit. I get at least 30x more hyped for the ace match than most of the other matches, especially when I get to see Bisu TWICE in one sitting. I can stomach it as long as we have a successful year of SC, and the BW industry gets some more money coming in.
On November 18 2011 01:23 XsebT wrote: What I'm saying is that "ace match" is now sc slang for that deciding match. This is not gonna change for me at least - I'm not gonna start shouting MATCH POINT.
No you're completely wrong. Ace match = Ace match, Match point = Match point, but Match point =/= Ace match. You can call still call it what ever you want that's your own prerogative, but you are still wrong. Also don't act like you speak for the whole of the BW community, especially when you're trying to save your own argument.
On November 18 2011 01:23 XsebT wrote: PL now demands more skill depth in a team and more strategy in the coach's player selection. I find it dumb to call it bad simply because it's different.
Except it actually encourages the opposite since it uses a stupid Bo5 format. I hope you enjoy seeing KT only sending out Flash, Stats, and Action because that is all they will ever send out with this current format. This is just going to push even more B teamers and even lesser A teamers over to SC2 as they won't hardly ever get the chance to play. If they keep this format for more than a few seasons you can also expect the teams to cull their numbers by more than half as most of the current players will just be dead weight/glorified practice partners.
On November 18 2011 01:23 XsebT wrote: I guess the reason people are upset is because they wanna see flash vs jaedong (and alike) ever time kt and t8 meets. Personally, I would much rather maintain the mystery and hype that revolves around such good players. - Have them meeting be a special treat once in a while.
Again, with this format change you are going to see the top players clash so often that there will not be any excitement, hype, or "mystery" anymore around the players.
Dear lord. I'm a pubic hair short of calling this a troll post. X_X However, it is (as should be evident to most around here) stupid enough that I think a heartfelt "shut the fuck up" is completely appropriate.
Edit: One thing though, I've been talking about my view on "ace match" this whole time. Whenever I've watched PL and it went to an ace match, for me the signifigance was in it being the last deciding game and these past 4/6 games now come down to this. The tension and the players fear of disappointing their team was what got me excited, and so that's what I have come to understand and appreciate about the term "ace match".
It all simply comes down to map order. If Chain Reaction is the 5th set for certain matches, it will be ZvZ regardless of which teams are dueling. But if Map 5 happens to be the map that Bisu and Jaedong practice on, then that's what we'll get. Great and mediocre set 5's will simply come down to the map order of the day.
And Jaehoon vs. s2 wouldn't be that bad of a match. The Jaehoon hate in these boards is strong.
It all simply comes down to map order. If Chain Reaction is the 5th set for certain matches, it will be ZvZ regardless of which teams are dueling. But if Map 5 happens to be the map that Bisu and Jaedong practice on, then that's what we'll get. Great and mediocre set 5's will simply come down to the map order of the day.
And Jaehoon vs. s2 wouldn't be that bad of a match. The Jaehoon hate in these boards is strong.
On November 18 2011 05:58 Baptista wrote: every bw post i read these days have an bolded text at the top preventing any sc2 fans spamming bw threads. Kind of... you know...
I'm kind of sad that there will be no ace matches, that was probably the most exciting part of the match for me. although I guess I should be somewhat happy since it looks like my team will destroy under this new format ^^
On November 18 2011 20:53 KevinIX wrote: People are underestimating KT imo. Flash may be Flash, but they have some talent. Action and Stats are solid players.
Action and Stats constantly oscillate between intermittent periods of incredible fervor and success and just pitiful play. While there is no doubt in my mind that these players are "solid" as you put it, tbh I'd personally place more bang for my buck in barracks, mind, and wooki. and go kang min cause i love him.
On November 18 2011 20:53 KevinIX wrote: People are underestimating KT imo. Flash may be Flash, but they have some talent. Action and Stats are solid players.
Action and Stats constantly oscillate between intermittent periods of incredible fervor and success and just pitiful play. While there is no doubt in my mind that these players are "solid" as you put it, tbh I'd personally place more bang for my buck in barracks, mind, and wooki. and go kang min cause i love him.
Action sure but Stats? The only period his play was even somewhat close to pitiful was last season when he couldn't figure out how to PvZ for a while. Otherwise he's beyond solid. If only he could go deep in an individual league again
So no winner's league? It feels like theyre really trying to get teams to value depth over a top loaded approach to team compositions, which is a good thing I guess. That said, I will miss my all-kills lol
BO5 will return this season. In order to keep the new players playing in Proleague, they got rid of ACE MATCH system, so player who played in any of previous 4 sets cannot play again.
They should have kept the ace match, although maybe with some limitations. Maybe something like:
- Each player has like 2 Ace cards, so overall they can be sent only 2 times as the ace. That way you ensure that no team would be able to send the same 1-2 players all the time.
- So if from 21 games, let´s say you get to the ace match in 6 of them, you make sure that at least there is a 3 player rotation. If you get to the Ace match every game, it forbids you from abusing your JD, Flash, Bisu, etc. so it makes you develop your depth. If you get few Ace matches, it probably means you are a deep team, but still you can have your usual starter Ace only twice, so if you get to your 3rd Ace match, you need to use someone else.
It could bring up interesting scenarios, like for example KT facing Samsung, and KT coach thinking: "Do I send Action, because I want to save Stats and Flash(who have been used once already) for later in the proleague in case we end up ACE matching with CJ or Super8?".
Sending Action, who is not bad himself, but not as a safe bet as Flash or even Stats, could still bring the victory home, but I am taking a bigger risk here. So what to do? I could lose this Ace match and lose the game for saving Flash and Stats, but maybe he faces CJ and wins 3-0 and no need for an Ace, so he wasted Flash saving him for an Ace match that never happened, and he probably would've won with Flash as the Ace vs Samsung.
On November 19 2011 15:53 wassbix wrote: KT coach sweating bullets now that he can't just insta-slam Flash into the booth twice for a win and now actually has to plan and stuff for each games
KT is a much more balanced team now, we'll do fine without the need of throwing Flash twice.
On November 19 2011 15:53 wassbix wrote: KT coach sweating bullets now that he can't just insta-slam Flash into the booth twice for a win and now actually has to plan and stuff for each games
Probably shivering in his blankets while eating ice cream.
On November 19 2011 15:53 wassbix wrote: KT coach sweating bullets now that he can't just insta-slam Flash into the booth twice for a win and now actually has to plan and stuff for each games
On November 19 2011 15:53 wassbix wrote: KT coach sweating bullets now that he can't just insta-slam Flash into the booth twice for a win and now actually has to plan and stuff for each games
KT is a much more balanced team now, we'll do fine without the need of throwing Flash twice.
Yeah, especially with the new mind pick-up.
Flash, Stats, Action, Mind, Crazy-Hydra looks like a really solid, good team tbh. Too bad most of them are inconsistent lol
On November 19 2011 15:53 wassbix wrote: KT coach sweating bullets now that he can't just insta-slam Flash into the booth twice for a win and now actually has to plan and stuff for each games
KT is a much more balanced team now, we'll do fine without the need of throwing Flash twice.
On November 19 2011 15:53 wassbix wrote: KT coach sweating bullets now that he can't just insta-slam Flash into the booth twice for a win and now actually has to plan and stuff for each games
I notice the T1 tag, then I notice the irony.
Sending flash as the ace for the ace match is of course a very logical match up , If KT had mind instead of flash supporting the team , They would have send mind for the ace matchup too , because he is a solid terran . So I don't understand the hate and all the predicting doom coming from skt1 bench and kt hate war mongers .
Look you can predict all you want but proleague hasn't start yet , Mind is a solid contender and I don't see Stats backing down from unleashing his random protoss *cannot win * skill like many people are speculating him to be . Crazy hydra and Action is a red herring and a hidden ace , If they are to perform nicely these year proleague , Sending them would be good and since it's a bo5 these year Wooki has the chance to show his talent too and our rookies barrack and perfective .
Do we really need ace match to win these year proleague these year ? Considering that Flash can win a single match up , It's already an advantage , Our Coach may not have the lime light like Coach Park , Coach Cho . However to think that he doesn't have any managerial skill at all , it's unacceptable , have you ever been to the kt training house ? have you experience yourself ? .
It's easy to see from the outlook that , kt strategy is to send flash twice to win , and any reasonable coach would have done the same thing . That doesn't mean Coach lee , isn't doing his job as a coach by predicting line up's and setting up snipers to get the advantage .
Don't think KT will have problems with the new line up, it is just bo5 now, remember this. They only need to wins to force the ACE match with Flash, and they can easily get 2 wins with Stats, Action, Mind, Barracks, etc. I think we will get less chances to see the ace players of each team, if the coach saves them for the ace match. Team like SKT1, KT, CJ etc. can win 3 games without the ace players.
On November 19 2011 17:52 jaQi wrote: Don't think KT will have problems with the new line up, it is just bo5 now, remember this. They only need to wins to force the ACE match with Flash, and they can easily get 2 wins with Stats, Action, Mind, Barracks, etc. I think we will get less chances to see the ace players of each team, if the coach saves them for the ace match. Team like SKT1, KT, CJ etc. can win 3 games without the ace players.
There arent any more ACE matches. u might want to re-read the first post. hence all the t1 fanboys saying that KT is screwed now.....which i honestly dont believe. they took most of the Bo7's in PO without resorting to ace matches....
On November 19 2011 17:52 jaQi wrote: Don't think KT will have problems with the new line up, it is just bo5 now, remember this. They only need to wins to force the ACE match with Flash, and they can easily get 2 wins with Stats, Action, Mind, Barracks, etc. I think we will get less chances to see the ace players of each team, if the coach saves them for the ace match. Team like SKT1, KT, CJ etc. can win 3 games without the ace players.
There arent any more ACE matches. u might want to re-read the first post. hence all the t1 fanboys saying that KT is screwed now.....which i honestly dont believe. they took most of the Bo7's in PO without resorting to ace matches....
Oh yea, sorry I did not had my senses together, there is no ace match anymore
Still, I don't think KT is screwed, SKT1 should be more afraid since they don't have any real addition.
On November 19 2011 17:52 jaQi wrote: Don't think KT will have problems with the new line up, it is just bo5 now, remember this. They only need to wins to force the ACE match with Flash, and they can easily get 2 wins with Stats, Action, Mind, Barracks, etc. I think we will get less chances to see the ace players of each team, if the coach saves them for the ace match. Team like SKT1, KT, CJ etc. can win 3 games without the ace players.
There arent any more ACE matches. u might want to re-read the first post. hence all the t1 fanboys saying that KT is screwed now.....which i honestly dont believe. they took most of the Bo7's in PO without resorting to ace matches....
Oh yea, sorry I did not had my senses together, there is no ace match anymore
Still, I don't think KT is screwed, SKT1 should be more afraid since they don't have any real addition.
SKT always had 3 'free wins' last season, the real problem was getting the closing 4th, The only worrying thing is that everybody else is stacked too yeah, but for the time being you can't say anybody but ACE and poor STX is losing sleep over this. (even though the drafting makes it seem like we didn't expect this and went for a deeper Zerg lineup, which is now basically worthless, or SKT gonna win sending 4 zergs now? trolol)
hmmmm. How will this allow knew players to play more? in b07 w/ace, KT needs 3 wins in 5 matches (flash gets 1) and they can test a player. in bo5 w/o ace, KT needs 2 wins in 3 matches (no flash) to test a player. Otherwise, they have to play flash to prevent losing, and the last match needs to be a good player to win the set.
On November 19 2011 17:52 jaQi wrote: Don't think KT will have problems with the new line up, it is just bo5 now, remember this. They only need to wins to force the ACE match with Flash, and they can easily get 2 wins with Stats, Action, Mind, Barracks, etc. I think we will get less chances to see the ace players of each team, if the coach saves them for the ace match. Team like SKT1, KT, CJ etc. can win 3 games without the ace players.
There arent any more ACE matches. u might want to re-read the first post. hence all the t1 fanboys saying that KT is screwed now.....which i honestly dont believe. they took most of the Bo7's in PO without resorting to ace matches....
Yes. But in a Bo5, KT still just need 2 wins outside of Flash. It wouldn't send the match to Ace. They'll just win the 3 games necessary. So in a roundabout way, he's still correct on that matter.
What I disagree with is that he thinks Stats, Action, Mind, Barracks, etc. can get two wins so easily. If anything, I'd take the depth of most teams over KT's.
On November 20 2011 03:13 hauton wrote: I don't see why they couldn't just do a Grand Finals with the winners of the two half-leagues
(or aggregate performance over the two to find a second place if one team won both)
Team performance is pretty uneven in BW. A team that wins the winter season might be 5th place come summer. Pairing them up against the winner is ... anti-climatic. I like the idea of two seasons and two grand finals. Round 2 & 3 can get tedious - especially now that the MSL isn't happening anymore
On December 01 2011 01:36 L_Master wrote: So next week is just a weird anomaly? No matches on the weekend, then one match each day at either the 16:00 time or even later at 17:00?
I don't know why there are no matches this weekend, but yes, next week there will be 4 matches, one everyday from Tuesday to Friday. The games on Thursday and Friday (CJ vs Khan, SKT vs KT) will be played on the WCG stage in Busan at 5PM.
I don't like that there is only one match a day. I would much rather like 2 matches a day even if they play less often then. Today for example just felt far too short.
On December 07 2011 08:56 Fenrax wrote: I don't like that there is only one match a day. I would much rather like 2 matches a day even if they play less often then. Today for example just felt far too short.
EPT
but all those tense moments where everyone is waiting on who the ace would be is now gone. good for january I guess.
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