Stop being jerks to each other please. Stop talking about seperate TL sites, BW vs SC2, or which fan base is retarded/ignorant/elitist/old/constipated.
Don't post in the thread unless you take the time to read the situation.
Don't post in the thread to let others know that they should have been banned longer.
Don't post in the thread to claim that kespa is the evil empire based on you reading the translated musing of a random Chinese blogger.
Honestly people, this is common sense. I hate the fact that I have to moderate to the lowest common denominator. Make my job easier please.
Basically, Kespa has found 5-6 companies and they are looking forward to form one or two new teams. Also, they assured that there will be at least eight teams next season. The new teams formed next season will not be a republic of the old teams. Players will be distributed evenly with their ranking and races. The rest of the players will be FA.
Lastly, there will be a new managing system next seasons; teams will be completely managed by Kespa but they will be still sponsored by original sponsors. It will be easier for Kespa to manage, and players will be under the same management to preserve fairness, and as well as preventing match fixing and team disbanding. + Show Spoiler +
I dont know exactly what the team management means, I just translate it from chinese webstie. But apparently ,they have been discussing about this team management on korean BBS webstie already. I think it will still be the same team and coach, but instead of teams under companies' name, it will be under Kespa's name. So, like companies-Kespa-teams instead of companies-teams, Kespa will be like the middle man. Don't know how much difference that is going to make, but I think it would definitely be better if all the teams are under one organization's control.
New teams will be formed in October and Proleague will start in November.
On September 28 2011 10:55 forumtext wrote: slight error in OP's management paragraph.
The new team's management style will be different, it will have multiple sponsors instead of 1 like other teams. Kespa (temp?)manages. This way Kespa will have the power to select players, (then something about balance). This also prevents teams disbanding when 1 sponsor leaves. Actually this style of management was rumored for a while now in forums, it's likely that Kespa release this news by themselves to test reaction.
(T/N: This paragraph was written by the translator to explain to people how the new team work. He never explain his source)
On September 30 2011 02:26 forumtext wrote: update/rumor from the Chinese sites:
Start of tran:
There are 2 major coporations betting for the sponsorship of the newly combined 'Dream Team'. No news if there will be a new Team 2.
According to the person who released this news, the new 'Dream Team' will have a weak P line up, but they have JD/killer/roro for zerg, By.baby Sea Mind for T, this should compensate the lack of good P. This team is going to a strong contender to titles next season.
end of tran:
This new management thing only applies to any new teams formed, that's if it's applied at all. Regardless, none of the existing teams will be affected. -Ryo
Lastly, there will be a new managing system next seasons; teams will be completely managed by Kespa but they will be still sponsored by original sponsors. It will be easier for Kespa to manage, and players will be under the same management to preserve fairness, and as well as preventing match fixing and team disbanding.
Am I reading this right ? Kespa now control team so they could choose which player will be send to play on a map ? oO
This is great. I can foresee a couple of gossip problems outside of the league, but, other than that it's great. This goes out to all of those who doubted BW. We have something besides corporations, it's called patriotism. Get some. So awesomeeeeeeeee
Lastly, there will be a new managing system next seasons; teams will be completely managed by Kespa but they will be still sponsored by original sponsors. It will be easier for Kespa to manage, and players will be under the same management to preserve fairness, and as well as preventing match fixing and team disbanding.
Am I reading this right ? Kespa now control team so they could choose which player will be send to play on a map ? oO
Lastly, there will be a new managing system next seasons; teams will be completely managed by Kespa but they will be still sponsored by original sponsors. It will be easier for Kespa to manage, and players will be under the same management to preserve fairness, and as well as preventing match fixing and team disbanding.
The new teams formed next season will not be a republic of the old teams. Players will be distributed evenly with their ranking and races. The rest of the players will be FA.
Do current teams stay how they are, or are they also being redistributed? How much control does kespa have over the original teams?
Lastly, there will be a new managing system next seasons; teams will be completely managed by Kespa but they will be still sponsored by original sponsors. It will be easier for Kespa to manage, and players will be under the same management to preserve fairness, and as well as preventing match fixing and team disbanding.
im actual confuse by this how will kespa manage them and what will change from the team management before?
Lastly, there will be a new managing system next seasons; teams will be completely managed by Kespa but they will be still sponsored by original sponsors. It will be easier for Kespa to manage, and players will be under the same management to preserve fairness, and as well as preventing match fixing and team disbanding.
What does this mean when they say "teams will be completely managed by Kespa"?
as much as i would like to take this as good news, i cant fight the gut feeling of mine that this sounds like a government taking over control of a bankrupt company.
Lastly, there will be a new managing system next seasons; teams will be completely managed by Kespa but they will be still sponsored by original sponsors. It will be easier for Kespa to manage, and players will be under the same management to preserve fairness, and as well as preventing match fixing and team disbanding.
Am I reading this right ? Kespa now control team so they could choose which player will be send to play on a map ? oO
Wat? Management != coach.
They could decide to swap coach between teams ... At last, that's what I understand. I don't think I want more team if all teams are now under direct control of Kespa. But meh, I could be wrong tho.
Maybe it means that Kespa will take more care about financing of the teams. Try to stop them from spending too much money etc... I doubt that some guys from Kespa will go and say "Yo Flash you`re playing next match". I like how after 2 months of terrible news,everything turns to be ok in just 3 days Long Live Brood War!
Lastly, there will be a new managing system next seasons; teams will be completely managed by Kespa but they will be still sponsored by original sponsors. It will be easier for Kespa to manage, and players will be under the same management to preserve fairness, and as well as preventing match fixing and team disbanding.
What does this mean when they say "teams will be completely managed by Kespa"?
He might mean that the last word in sponsorship agreements/rosters/decisions to disband etc are given by Kespa but otherwise the teams function as normal.
Kespa wants BW to flourish as much as anyone and the recent disbanding was obviously not good for them.
Why would the new sponsors want their teams to be managed? Because they're feeling uncomfortable investing into something like a BW team, I guess. Since every sponsor (dunno about ACE) is a member of KeSPA, I guess that'll lead to a lot of corporate handshakes.
Maybe it's just to relieve the sponsors of a lot of administrative hassle by piling that workload on the backs of KeSPA instead? Seems like a benificial deal if it makes the corporations less wary about continuing to pump cash into the teams.
On September 28 2011 04:44 mustaju wrote: Why would the new sponsors want their teams to be managed? Because they're feeling uncomfortable investing into something like a BW team, I guess. Since every sponsor (dunno about ACE) is a member of KeSPA, I guess that'll lead to a lot of corporate handshakes.
Uh, that makes no sense. All teams need management. Though without further details it's hard to know if that one is a good thing or not.
On September 28 2011 04:44 mustaju wrote: Why would the new sponsors want their teams to be managed? Because they're feeling uncomfortable investing into something like a BW team, I guess. Since every sponsor (dunno about ACE) is a member of KeSPA, I guess that'll lead to a lot of corporate handshakes.
Uh, that makes no sense. All teams need management. Though without further details it's hard to know if that one is a good thing or not.
Well, I thought the same thing. Trying to rationalize, after all. But since that seems to be their strategy, I guess we'll have to wait and see. I'm hoping for a mistranslation, myself. :S
yay, Long live BW! :D I wanna see more of the Dong! :D Jaedong vs Flash again plz I had such a blast watching Jangbi v Fantasy :D BW is such a fantastic game
On one hand it's realy amazing news. On the other, as mentioned by Chill: "So the players' association also manages the players? That's strange to say the least."
I could see the benefit of Kespa manage the team for the benefit of the whole BW scene, but at the same time I'm worried this move might make sponsors bit more weary in investing in teams. Though I guess this lends more stability, since we won't have hit and run sponsors, which only makes people panic.
On September 28 2011 04:37 Black Gun wrote: as much as i would like to take this as good news, i cant fight the gut feeling of mine that this sounds like a government taking over control of a bankrupt company.
Korea governement directly move to protect their game/cultur, seem good to me, their a lot of thing that are not profitable and need to be defended
its scary what kespa does sometimes ... well most times it is. But i guess that is one way to keep teams from disbanding. Still scared of the direct management and possibility of moving pros around the teams. But nevertheless its good for the bw scene, atleast in the short run.
On September 28 2011 04:35 Chill wrote: So the players' association also manages the players? That's strange to say the least.
Agreed - that's really worrying especially for newer recruits that are up and coming that don't know how the contract scene goes.
Kespa probs going to keep player salaries down to make the teams a better investment for the corporations involved.
I have a hard time figuring out what else it could be, managers handle salary and career moves, and the career moves have been taken care of. Why would kespa be holding onto a managerial position? O_O
I dont know exactly what the team management means, I just translate it from chinese webstie. But apparently ,they have been discussing about this team management on korean BBS webstie already. I think it will still be the same team and coach, but instead of teams under companies' name, it will be under Kespa's name. So, like companies-Kespa-teams instead of companies-teams, Kespa will be like the middle man. Don't know how much difference that is going to make, but I think it would definitely be better if all the teams are under one organization's control.
To everyone who's wondering...the article means exactly what it says.
KeSPA will be managing all the teams. They'll be taking care of the teams. That means logistical stuff, like talking with sponsors, contract stuff, finances, etc.
Stuff like who the teams actually send on stage for Proleague will still be handled by the players and coaching staff...
A report like this is never good =/, just seems sugar coated. Hopefully it's true but I feel it's doubtful.
For those who don't understand, look at this from a business perspective. It looks like they are trying to siphon everything they can from the league right now, if I'm right you'll see more reports like when BW was thriving back in the day or worse, even more than back then.
The problem with sponsors is not really the money, a million dollars or so is a drop in the bucket for some of the largest conglomerates in the world. It's about committing their brand name, so who makes the call needs to trust a manager/coach to build a working team and not a scandal, and you can imagine that's not very common. That's why Boxer is thrown half a million dollars to build a team for a completely new game while others struggle for survival.
A organization like KeSPA is essencial to a strong scene and it's amazing they are receiving that vote of confidence.
What kespa means is that they will own the team. Not manage it. They will not decide which team buys which player. who plays on which map. But by owning the team they cant be disbanded, that way the current problems cant happen again. A Team might lose there sponsor, but the team will never go away.
So basically, all sponsors will now sponsor KeSPA, and KeSPA will distribute funds out to all the teams? This ensures that if 1 sponsor backs out, a whole team doesn't have to disband as a result. It might also level of financial playing field between teams, by closing the gap in funds each team has available.
Maybe it'll also mean that trading players between teams will be easier as well.
Yeah, i think you all are reading too much into Kespa "management." It sounds like it is to make things like transferring players and switching sponsors easier.
On September 28 2011 04:35 Chill wrote: So the players' association also manages the players? That's strange to say the least.
I think Kespa is more like the NBA than they are the players' association. Don't think BW in Korea even has a players' union tbh. Especially since so many of the pro gamers are underage.
Hmm, glad that broodwar continues, but I don't understand how consolidating management of all teams would REDUCE the likelihood of risk of match fixing or other dishonesty/corruption, if anything it would just make easier to do.
On September 28 2011 05:32 Zzoram wrote: So basically, all sponsors will now sponsor KeSPA, and KeSPA will distribute funds out to all the teams? This ensures that if 1 sponsor backs out, a whole team doesn't have to disband as a result. It might also level of financial playing field between teams, by closing the gap in funds each team has available.
Maybe it'll also mean that trading players between teams will be easier as well.
If that were the case, would teams lose the sponsor name in their team title? Is it no longer Samsung Khan, but just Khan?
On September 28 2011 05:32 Zzoram wrote: So basically, all sponsors will now sponsor KeSPA, and KeSPA will distribute funds out to all the teams? This ensures that if 1 sponsor backs out, a whole team doesn't have to disband as a result. It might also level of financial playing field between teams, by closing the gap in funds each team has available.
Maybe it'll also mean that trading players between teams will be easier as well.
If that were the case, would teams lose the sponsor name in their team title? Is it no longer Samsung Khan, but just Khan?
Not a chance, then Samsung would have to stop sponsoring the team
Nevertheless it is good to hear that oz, fox and hero players can relax a bit (sadly not all of them). And putting bias away it's not so bad to have 1-2 powerful teams instead of 3 punchbags.
Grey skies are clearing up Stop trying to find the dark side of everything, seriously why is this thread so negative. A month ago people were concerned we wouldn't be able to find a single sponsor, now we've got six companies showing interest. If you're weak in the worst of times you could at least show some strength when things are good...
On September 28 2011 05:54 Chef wrote: Grey skies are clearing up Stop trying to find the dark side of everything, seriously why is this thread so negative. A month ago people were concerned we wouldn't be able to find a single sponsor, now we've got four showing interest. If you're weak in the worst of times you could at least show some strength when things are good...
Here's to another season of proleague.
It is becoming tradition to be pissed off in preseason.
I think things will still the same. Lets say KTR wants to increase Flash salary. Obviously they cant do it without asking the sponsors. Now, instead of asking the sponsors themselves, they go to Kespa, and Kespa goes to the sponsors. Unless Kespa has a saying in how much they are going to increase Flash salary (in my example, obviously), I think Kespa management is a good thing. KeSPA does drop the ball sometimes, and thats why we are afraid of it. But I think its for the best. And it is fucking dope that they can assure that there will be 8 teams and the 2 teams WILL be formed. KeSPA power is no joke.
On September 28 2011 05:59 tree.hugger wrote: So they're going to split up the existing teams and redistribute the players? So if you were a fan of one particular team, now the players you were a fan of are going to be split amongst several teams?
Am I seriously reading that right, how does that make any sense?
The players of OZ and WMF will be split. The other teams are still the same.
On September 28 2011 05:32 Zzoram wrote: So basically, all sponsors will now sponsor KeSPA, and KeSPA will distribute funds out to all the teams? This ensures that if 1 sponsor backs out, a whole team doesn't have to disband as a result. It might also level of financial playing field between teams, by closing the gap in funds each team has available.
Maybe it'll also mean that trading players between teams will be easier as well.
If that were the case, would teams lose the sponsor name in their team title? Is it no longer Samsung Khan, but just Khan?
Not a chance, then Samsung would have to stop sponsoring the team
But my question is based on IF Zzoram's interpretation is correct, where companies don't sponsor teams directly. What if all 5-6 companies that KeSPA is talking to decide to sponsor but only 3 teams are added to make 8? Either someone's not getting their name up there or there's going to be some Microsoft/Coca-Cola Oz team name action going on. Look at professional physical sports. Organizations like the NBA have official sponsors, but teams aren't named Gatorade Lakers or McDonald's Mavericks.
I imagine the sponsor names would stay too, I'm mainly just trying to figure out what this "KeSPA middle man" thing really means.
On September 28 2011 05:49 Iplaythings wrote: I am curious what the names of these teams will be! good news, FINALLY :D
On September 28 2011 05:45 duncan.mc wrote:
On September 28 2011 05:32 Zzoram wrote: So basically, all sponsors will now sponsor KeSPA, and KeSPA will distribute funds out to all the teams? This ensures that if 1 sponsor backs out, a whole team doesn't have to disband as a result. It might also level of financial playing field between teams, by closing the gap in funds each team has available.
Maybe it'll also mean that trading players between teams will be easier as well.
If that were the case, would teams lose the sponsor name in their team title? Is it no longer Samsung Khan, but just Khan?
Not a chance, then Samsung would have to stop sponsoring the team
But my question is based on IF Zzoram's interpretation is correct, where companies don't sponsor teams directly. What if all 5-6 companies that KeSPA is talking to decide to sponsor but only 3 teams are added to make 8? Either someone's not getting their name up there or there's going to be some Microsoft/Coca-Cola Oz team name action going on. Look at professional physical sports. Organizations like the NBA have official sponsors, but teams aren't named Gatorade Lakers or McDonald's Mavericks.
I imagine the sponsor names would stay too, I'm mainly just trying to figure out what this "KeSPA middle man" thing really means.
FYI, it's pretty common in other parts of the world for professional sports teams to have their corporate sponsors in their names, especially in Asia.
Also, we have 7 teams currently (SKT, KT, CJ, Stars, Khan, STX, and Ace) so even if they only add 1 team there will be 8.
So SKKespaT1, KT Kespa Rolster, CJ Kespa Entus? Samsung Kespa Khan? Anyways, I hope that we'll get atleast 1 more team to get up to 9 teams in total. Honestly I don't mind if Kespa reorganize all the players and make them switch teams to keep everything balanced.
On September 28 2011 05:49 Iplaythings wrote: I am curious what the names of these teams will be! good news, FINALLY :D
On September 28 2011 05:45 duncan.mc wrote:
On September 28 2011 05:32 Zzoram wrote: So basically, all sponsors will now sponsor KeSPA, and KeSPA will distribute funds out to all the teams? This ensures that if 1 sponsor backs out, a whole team doesn't have to disband as a result. It might also level of financial playing field between teams, by closing the gap in funds each team has available.
Maybe it'll also mean that trading players between teams will be easier as well.
If that were the case, would teams lose the sponsor name in their team title? Is it no longer Samsung Khan, but just Khan?
Not a chance, then Samsung would have to stop sponsoring the team
But my question is based on IF Zzoram's interpretation is correct, where companies don't sponsor teams directly. What if all 5-6 companies that KeSPA is talking to decide to sponsor but only 3 teams are added to make 8? Either someone's not getting their name up there or there's going to be some Microsoft/Coca-Cola Oz team name action going on. Look at professional physical sports. Organizations like the NBA have official sponsors, but teams aren't named Gatorade Lakers or McDonald's Mavericks.
I imagine the sponsor names would stay too, I'm mainly just trying to figure out what this "KeSPA middle man" thing really means.
FYI, it's pretty common in other parts of the world for professional sports teams to have their corporate sponsors in their names, especially in Asia.
Cool, didn't know that. My experience is limited to American sports, Premier League soccer, and Olympics.
On September 28 2011 06:10 Xiphos wrote: So SKKespaT1, KT Kespa Rolster, CJ Kespa Entus? Samsung Kespa Khan? Anyways, I hope that we'll get atleast 1 more team to get up to 9 teams in total. Honestly I don't mind if Kespa reorganize all the players and make them switch teams to keep everything balanced.
No, it just means Kespa is legally in charge of the teams. What it means is that Khan will still exist even if Samsung no longer sponsors it, and Kespa will be better positioned to find a new sponsor.
So mixed, but mostly glad. KESPA isnt exactly flawless in my eyes (Disc for writing PP instead of PPP and such) but still nice with new sponsors and many teams!
With this comes more sability. Which means we won't see teams break apart anytime soon. KeSPA now can control things better and keep teams sponsored, so that we never have anothe rmonth of waiting to see if these teams will get sponsored or not. Its easier to keep the teams funded and together this way.
On September 28 2011 05:32 Zzoram wrote: So basically, all sponsors will now sponsor KeSPA, and KeSPA will distribute funds out to all the teams? This ensures that if 1 sponsor backs out, a whole team doesn't have to disband as a result. It might also level of financial playing field between teams, by closing the gap in funds each team has available.
Maybe it'll also mean that trading players between teams will be easier as well.
I think it's a lot more likely that the current sponsors will all stay the same. It seems like their goal is that if a sponsor pulls out (e.g. MBC), the team is managed by KeSPA, so if a new sponsor comes along, they can just rename the team to CNN Hero or whatever and have all of the management details stay the same, just with a different income source.
Wow this actually gave me chills, as nerdy as that may sound. Awesome, so excited this wont be the end of BW. Just hope all the players and teams are satisfied with the new management. Should be interesting to see the player distribution and the new teams.
On September 28 2011 05:32 Zzoram wrote: So basically, all sponsors will now sponsor KeSPA, and KeSPA will distribute funds out to all the teams? This ensures that if 1 sponsor backs out, a whole team doesn't have to disband as a result. It might also level of financial playing field between teams, by closing the gap in funds each team has available.
Maybe it'll also mean that trading players between teams will be easier as well.
I think it's a lot more likely that the current sponsors will all stay the same. It seems like their goal is that if a sponsor pulls out (e.g. MBC), the team is managed by KeSPA, so if a new sponsor comes along, they can just rename the team to CNN Hero or whatever and have all of the management details stay the same, just with a different income source.
if this is the case that's good news; I'm still confused a bit about it (as most people surely are; guess we can wait and see more clarifications/how it works).
this should be featured news imo. But as for the "5-6" companies, are they looking for 1 or 2 to pull through or are those companies all chipping in some--i.e. instead of something like "samsung khan" it'll have to be something like Intel-Kia Fingerboom (with 2 major sponsors, but managed by Kespa).
On September 28 2011 05:32 Zzoram wrote: So basically, all sponsors will now sponsor KeSPA, and KeSPA will distribute funds out to all the teams? This ensures that if 1 sponsor backs out, a whole team doesn't have to disband as a result. It might also level of financial playing field between teams, by closing the gap in funds each team has available.
Maybe it'll also mean that trading players between teams will be easier as well.
I think it's a lot more likely that the current sponsors will all stay the same. It seems like their goal is that if a sponsor pulls out (e.g. MBC), the team is managed by KeSPA, so if a new sponsor comes along, they can just rename the team to CNN Hero or whatever and have all of the management details stay the same, just with a different income source.
if this is the case that's good news; I'm still confused a bit about it (as most people surely are; guess we can wait and see more clarifications/how it works).
this should be featured news imo. But as for the "5-6" companies, are they looking for 1 or 2 to pull through or are those companies all chipping in some--i.e. instead of something like "samsung khan" it'll have to be something like Intel-Kia Fingerboom (with 2 major sponsors, but managed by Kespa).
Keep in mind, many teams have more than one sponsor, even if it's not in thier names. Flash doesn't wear a Pocari Sweat patch because he likes it, he wears it because they sponsor KT (and SKT too, incidentally).
For the short term, it's definitely good that BW continues.
But this really can't be good for the long run / welfare of the players. Now, let's say someone like Bisu becomes free agent. Basically he can only get salary as kespa dictates it and not through supply and demand.
If Kespa orders SKT to lower his salary for example to maintain profitability, nothing Bisu can do because other teams won't make counter offer since they are all under Kespa. This system will always disadvantage the players in the long run.
Of course the alternative would be BW shrink and dies if Kespa doesn't step in and the players have no job anyway. But i really don't see things remaining this way in the long run.
It will be easier for Kespa to manage, and players will be under the same management to preserve fairness, and as well as preventing match fixing and team disbanding.
So, one organization controlling all of the teams... that seems like it would make the potential for match fixing much, much higher. It's a huge conflict of interest.
On September 28 2011 06:49 dtz wrote: For the short term, it's definitely good that BW continues.
But this really can't be good for the long run / welfare of the players. Now, let's say someone like Bisu becomes free agent. Basically he can only get salary as kespa dictates it and not through supply and demand.
If Kespa orders SKT to lower his salary for example to maintain profitability, nothing Bisu can do because other teams won't make counter offer since they are all under Kespa. This system will always disadvantage the players in the long run.
Of course the alternative would be BW shrink and dies if Kespa doesn't step in and the players have no job anyway. But i really don't see things remaining this way in the long run.
Unless i am misunderstanding something.
Excited for the new teams though =)
Keep in mind that there are only 7 (excluding ace) bw teams in the world, so if Bisu isn't satisfied with his salary he could quit.
It will be easier for Kespa to manage, and players will be under the same management to preserve fairness, and as well as preventing match fixing and team disbanding.
So, one organization controlling all of the teams... that seems like it would make the potential for match fixing much, much higher. It's a huge conflict of interest.
How so? I don't think that Kespa would improve on this issue, but make things worse...
Sounds good. I think it can also be good for the players.At the moment you basically sit there with nothing, if a team sponsor decides to pull out. The team just disapears and all progamers are suddenly without a home. That just seems like a very unsecure situation for the players. Sponsors come and go after all. Maybe Kespas move will improve that situation.
In any case. It is good to read that new teams will be formed. Cant wait for the new season
hmm, seems like a move to keep the sponsors but it'll be hard for any new sponsors to come in with this new system imo... but it seems like the only move that can be done anyway in regards to preserving the teams for the future.
It's great that there is still interest from companies but when you redistribute the teams according to ranking you lose the storylines and a lot of the character of BW. I'll have to see how they do this before I make a proper judgement.
Not sure how this system prevents match fixing, but heyy as long there aren't any unfounded accusations and rash penalties, I'm all for this!! Interesting times for all BW hardcore fans : D
There isn't enough information to assess the impact of KeSPA management yet, whether positive or negative, so any talk of what it means for the scene is purely speculative. KeSPA management is a small detail compared to 5-6 new sponsors and 1-2 new teams anyways, this is extremely positive news.
On September 28 2011 04:37 Black Gun wrote: as much as i would like to take this as good news, i cant fight the gut feeling of mine that this sounds like a government taking over control of a bankrupt company.
Fortunately it sounds nothing like that. That would be analogous to KeSPA actually sponsoring the teams themselves.
On September 28 2011 04:24 caradoc wrote: Woah. 2 more probes?
At this rate we're going to need a new pylon soon. (I guess MBC would have been the first pylon, which makes OGN the nexus?) This is all in reference to Chef's blog in case you missed it.
EDIT:
On September 28 2011 08:12 Wohmfg wrote: It's great that there is still interest from companies but when you redistribute the teams according to ranking you lose the storylines and a lot of the character of BW. I'll have to see how they do this before I make a proper judgement.
Based on my reading of the OP, it sounds like they're only redistributing players from the three disbanded teams, so that the old teams will stay as they are and the new teams will actually be new teams, as opposed to a reconstructed Oz for example. The wording of the OP is ambiguous though, I could be completely off the mark.
I think their control is to keep the balance of the teams fair right? That's what's implied sort of and fits in with the rest of what is said. Which is very good, the new teams are going to be very interesting. Certainly not that they are coaching the teams or controlling anything to do with how the matches are played. Keep in mind that KeSPA is made up by representatives of the sponsors, so really nothing is changed whatever it exactly means... just that instead of 1 sponsor 'managing' a team it's now a responsibility of all. It sounds like prehaps it's a way to strengthen the scene by sharing among the big sponsors and small sponsors?
Proleague is going to be very fresh when it starts, whole new maps and new teams. I'm worried about mass of mirrors every match due to the unusual maps though.. i really wish somehow it could be made so some games don't end up 100% mirrors.
Edit: this really needs to be cleared up as people seem to have a misunderstanding that KeSPA is a totally separate organization. As far as i'm aware the organization of KeSPA is made up from representatives from the sponsors... ie: an SKT1 representative is currently the president i think. So they are already managing the teams but this is probably just a way to stabilize the future of smaller teams.
A little more clarification might be needed on the "management" question, but I think this can be taken positively given the alternative seemed to be the sponsors leaving which meant teams disbanding in mass and making BW's death seem all that more imminent.
Also the number of sponsors is interesting, it sounds like there's enough to cover the teams plus Proleague and OSL and even MSL sponsorship (possibly the MSL could continue even if it's not on MBC?). I would not be surprised to see a Korean Air team now.
Teams being managed by KeSPA makes me nervous. I mean, it makes sense that a team shouldn't be in danger of collapsing if the sponsor drops out, but KeSPA generally gives me the creeps. I wonder what the players think about this.
Lastly, there will be a new managing system next seasons; teams will be completely managed by Kespa but they will be still sponsored by original sponsors. It will be easier for Kespa to manage, and players will be under the same management to preserve fairness, and as well as preventing match fixing and team disbanding.
Um this sounds like a terrible idea, but I am willing to take it for the sake of keeping BW with a full 8-team lineup. This is a rather autocratic approach to handling the economic situation at hand. Relinquishing all management duties to the players association guarantees that teams are less likely to fudge up their economic standing, but it gives Kespa control of almost the entirety of pro BW. What happens when Kespa makes a shitty decision and they don't want to address their mistake? Will the Korean BW community just bend over and take it? What happens if a big company wants to make a stake in pro BW, but Kespa doesn't want to relinquish any power?
Perhaps I miss-interpreting what is being said, but I think this is a horrible idea. On the other hand I am happy that we will have 8 teams to cheer for.
Hold on: does this mean kespa chooses line ups? That would be rather awkward considering all of the snipers in BW (CJ especially). And how does this prevent match fixing? Kespa could very well be fixing matches whereas coaches have little to no knowledge of who will be played from the other teams.
Brood War lives on!!! Although I am not in full faith and support of Kespa intervening even more, I feel that this is necessary and well-deserved, considering the problems that were surrounding BW recently. I cannot wait until November!! :-)
I find it odd that Kespa is going to manage the teams, really curious as to how that's going to work out. Other than that I believe this is pretty good news.
On September 28 2011 10:36 stork4ever wrote: Kespa might be the spawn of evil and a thorn in blizzard's side...but thank god for Kespa and may bw be stronger then ever. The dragons are back
but they're still working together lol.
once again BW has taken a hit and come out on the other side smiling,I've already said to myself if BW survives the disbanding of 3 teams and MBC game,BW will live forever.
The new team's management style will be different, it will have multiple sponsors instead of 1 like other teams. Kespa (temp?)manages. This way Kespa will have the power to select players, (then something about balance). This also prevents teams disbanding when 1 sponsor leaves. Actually this style of management was rumored for a while now in forums, it's likely that Kespa release this news by themselves to test reaction.
(T/N: This paragraph was written by the translator to explain to people how the new team work. He never explain his source)
On September 28 2011 10:57 Release wrote: I still feel like the flair will be gone from seeing Zero and Soulkey's bromance, Best and Frotoss, etc, etc. Balance is nice, but at what cost?
Those teams will still remain the same. The new teams will be Oz, Fox, and MBC players distributed evenly to the new teams, so one team doesn't end up with something like Jaedong, Baby, Midas, Sea or something. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I got from the article.
The new team's management style will be different, it will have multiple sponsors instead of 1 like other teams. Kespa manages. This way Kespa will have the power to select players, (then something about balance). This also prevents teams disbanding when 1 sponsor leaves. Actually this style of management was rumored for a while now in forums, it's likely that Kespa release this news by themselves to test reaction.
I think this paragraph was added by the plu translator. It doesn't appear in the original Korean interview.
So Kespa management doesn't apply to all teams but just the new team/teams, reportedly anyway.
Someone on wfbrood translated the full interview from Korean to Chinese: + Show Spoiler +
游戏团表示:“不仅在球迷们的消息解散董事会中含有的企业来说也是不小的冲击。搬家公司中,各游戏团的事务局长聚集的战略委员会的组成特别工作组(task force team)组成的新游戏团创立的企业,目前正在物色。实际接触的企业见面,今后如果包括企业约有5 ~ 6个左右。其中一两球队的新程度至少可以组队预测说:“有。
国产e体育能力能看得出来要成长也同步 韩国网络游戏市场的国产游戏为先的本土e体育联赛,正在逐渐恢复元气。cj e & m netmarble、dragon弗拉的‘特殊浦项”在内,nexon的《突袭》、《地下城与勇士》、《跑跑卡丁车》等正在举行联赛,计划扩大,正在树立。但是现在还处于起步阶段,所以只能是关心和期待有所下降。同时,国产联赛的球员们参与对支援体系脆弱,正在经历阵痛。
SO happy for this. I disagree with Kespa on a lot of things and I'm not sure whether them having full control is a good thing or not, but as long the games continue I'll be happy. Hopefully Kespa doesn't try to overstep the line with managing teams.
On September 28 2011 11:22 DeepBlu2 wrote: SO happy for this. I disagree with Kespa on a lot of things and I'm not sure whether them having full control is a good thing or not, but as long the games continue I'll be happy. Hopefully Kespa doesn't try to overstep the line with managing teams.
The thing is that they will secure teams future.
I love the things they made so far. Can't wait till October to see the teams <3333
The new team's management style will be different, it will have multiple sponsors instead of 1 like other teams. Kespa manages. This way Kespa will have the power to select players, (then something about balance). This also prevents teams disbanding when 1 sponsor leaves. Actually this style of management was rumored for a while now in forums, it's likely that Kespa release this news by themselves to test reaction.
I think this paragraph was added by the plu translator. It doesn't appear in the original Korean interview.
So Kespa management doesn't apply to all teams but just the new team/teams, reportedly anyway.
Someone on wfbrood translated the full interview from Korean to Chinese: + Show Spoiler +
游戏团表示:“不仅在球迷们的消息解散董事会中含有的企业来说也是不小的冲击。搬家公司中,各游戏团的事务局长聚集的战略委员会的组成特别工作组(task force team)组成的新游戏团创立的企业,目前正在物色。实际接触的企业见面,今后如果包括企业约有5 ~ 6个左右。其中一两球队的新程度至少可以组队预测说:“有。
国产e体育能力能看得出来要成长也同步 韩国网络游戏市场的国产游戏为先的本土e体育联赛,正在逐渐恢复元气。cj e & m netmarble、dragon弗拉的‘特殊浦项”在内,nexon的《突袭》、《地下城与勇士》、《跑跑卡丁车》等正在举行联赛,计划扩大,正在树立。但是现在还处于起步阶段,所以只能是关心和期待有所下降。同时,国产联赛的球员们参与对支援体系脆弱,正在经历阵痛。
Finally Kespa doing something good for BW. Not sure how I feel about them directly managing the teams but if it's a necessary evil then so be it. The important thing is that there are sponsors who still believe in the viability of BW and are willing to sponsor a team.
On September 28 2011 11:32 ahx wrote: Sounds like they figured out a way to get paid more money.
KeSPA is non-profit, where is this profit you are thinking of? Let alone MORE profit. KeSPA = the sponsors = they put money in solely for advertising their brand. Where the hell do you think money comes from... TV advertisements on OGN is all i can think of and that goes to OGN. The teams and leagues just take a ton of money to run with no direct profit just exposure.
On September 28 2011 10:57 Release wrote: I still feel like the flair will be gone from seeing Zero and Soulkey's bromance, Best and Frotoss, etc, etc. Balance is nice, but at what cost?
With players getting mixed up on new teams we might see new bromances blossom, don't despair
Kespa will mix the players of the 3 disbanding teams to form 2 balanced teams. Why people are freaking out?
I really doubt that Kespa will manage the coaching process. Kespa will manage administrative stuff, not what goes on at the practice houses or who plays in wich map.
If it's management, could it be something like board management in a corporation, or maybe even management of a subsidiary? What this equates to generally is fiscal control. The day to day affairs are in the hands of the officers (the coaching staff) but any major corporate decision will have to be made by the board. This involves many things I would think - selling/buying players, hiring/firing coaches, leasing room for a practice house and renting a dormitory for the players, buying a team bus, etc (mostly involving acts of ownership). If so, I'm not sure how this might be fair, be it the management of 2 teams or of all teams. As someone pointed out, KeSPA is composed of representatives from all the teams, but the power within has been in the hands of CJ/SKT representatives. It feels too much like conflict of interest to me, honestly.
Ultimately, if it keeps BW up and running I'm fine with it though.
Well, obviously Kespa can't intervene in who gets sent to proleague and stuff. But until the management part gets some clarification on what it actually means, then all will pretty much be speculation.
How many teams are going to be formed from those "5-6 companies willing"?
On September 28 2011 12:37 c3rberUs wrote: Well, obviously Kespa can't intervene in who gets sent to proleague and stuff. But until the management part gets some clarification on what it actually means, then all will pretty much be speculation.
How many teams are going to be formed from those "5-6 companies willing"?
Kespa says it will try to maintain 8 teams for these year proleague format and 5-6 companies are interested in investing in to the scene but we are not told out of these interested sponsors how many more teams will be formed . I think we have just to wait and see what's going to happen.
On September 28 2011 12:30 Caladbolg wrote: If it's management, could it be something like board management in a corporation, or maybe even management of a subsidiary? What this equates to generally is fiscal control. The day to day affairs are in the hands of the officers (the coaching staff) but any major corporate decision will have to be made by the board. This involves many things I would think - selling/buying players, hiring/firing coaches, leasing room for a practice house and renting a dormitory for the players, buying a team bus, etc (mostly involving acts of ownership). If so, I'm not sure how this might be fair, be it the management of 2 teams or of all teams. As someone pointed out, KeSPA is composed of representatives from all the teams, but the power within has been in the hands of CJ/SKT representatives. It feels too much like conflict of interest to me, honestly.
Ultimately, if it keeps BW up and running I'm fine with it though.
That paragraph was added by the plu translator. It doesn't appear in the Korean interview.
On September 28 2011 10:55 forumtext wrote: slight error in OP's management paragraph.
The new team's management style will be different, it will have multiple sponsors instead of 1 like other teams. Kespa (temp?)manages. This way Kespa will have the power to select players, (then something about balance). This also prevents teams disbanding when 1 sponsor leaves. Actually this style of management was rumored for a while now in forums, it's likely that Kespa release this news by themselves to test reaction.
(T/N: This paragraph was written by the translator to explain to people how the new team work. He never explain his source)
On September 28 2011 12:30 Caladbolg wrote: If it's management, could it be something like board management in a corporation, or maybe even management of a subsidiary? What this equates to generally is fiscal control. The day to day affairs are in the hands of the officers (the coaching staff) but any major corporate decision will have to be made by the board. This involves many things I would think - selling/buying players, hiring/firing coaches, leasing room for a practice house and renting a dormitory for the players, buying a team bus, etc (mostly involving acts of ownership). If so, I'm not sure how this might be fair, be it the management of 2 teams or of all teams. As someone pointed out, KeSPA is composed of representatives from all the teams, but the power within has been in the hands of CJ/SKT representatives. It feels too much like conflict of interest to me, honestly.
Ultimately, if it keeps BW up and running I'm fine with it though.
That paragraph was added by the plu translator. It doesn't appear in the Korean interview.
The new team's management style will be different, it will have multiple sponsors instead of 1 like other teams. Kespa (temp?)manages. This way Kespa will have the power to select players, (then something about balance). This also prevents teams disbanding when 1 sponsor leaves. Actually this style of management was rumored for a while now in forums, it's likely that Kespa release this news by themselves to test reaction.
(T/N: This paragraph was written by the translator to explain to people how the new team work. He never explain his source)
Yep, thanks, but even if it's an unsubstantiated rumor right now, it's actually a logical move to prevent the fearmongering in respect of match-fixing issues and corporate downsizing. I just have a problem with the structural aspect, since if KeSPA does change into a management body of a few teams, it could interfere in what is presumably a market/player/coach-driven aspect (such as roster changes).
This is wonderful news. I'm glad that the situation is starting to stabilize with the Brood War scene. One question I have, though, is will they still hold the playoffs in the same fashion with the top-6 teams thing? With (supposedly) 8 teams, it would be kinda generous to let the top 6 advance, imo. I'll just trust in Kespa's decision making.
On September 28 2011 14:39 blahman3344 wrote: This is wonderful news. I'm glad that the situation is starting to stabilize with the Brood War scene. One question I have, though, is will they still hold the playoffs in the same fashion with the top-6 teams thing? With (supposedly) 8 teams, it would be kinda generous to let the top 6 advance, imo. I'll just trust in Kespa's decision making.
probably just revert back to the old format of 3v4, winner vs 2, winner vs 1.
On September 28 2011 17:02 arbiter_md wrote: I don't understand much of these news, but since most of the people say it's good news I will consider that BW is saved!
basically it says that Sponsors still holds interest in BW, which is incredibly good news
I understand the new sponsor part, which was needed, but why is there a whole new management system. To prevent disbanding? Does this mean that the BW community is going to pool sponsorship money and put all their eggs in one basket? I guess in the short run its financially a bit more stable then having teams do individual financing, but in the long run doesn't this put the entire league at risk? Tying everyone to a single money pool means its a one shot negotiation period for the contract renewal not for just one team, but for everyone?
Also, whats the public opinion of KeSPA in recent memory? I know in the past they were in a bit of a negative light, but while this news is certainly a good change of pace from norm lately, isn't this kind of bitter sweet in a way?
On September 28 2011 18:15 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: Also, whats the public opinion of KeSPA in recent memory? I know in the past they were in a bit of a negative light, but while this news is certainly a good change of pace from norm lately, isn't this kind of bitter sweet in a way?
They make questionable decisions with rules and such which gets them some (often deserved) flak, but they have always been incredibly important for the stability of pro BW. This is more proof of that
On September 28 2011 16:35 ICanFlyLow wrote: I wish they would atleast have 1 foreign team or a few foreign players onboard
Like who? Are there any foreign players who can realistically compete in Korea, let alone a whole team?
Sziky and Kolll. If LRM) was in Korea, and training in Korea, with a couple additions of the strongest player from the following best 2 foreign teams, then yes.
On September 28 2011 16:35 ICanFlyLow wrote: I wish they would atleast have 1 foreign team or a few foreign players onboard
Like who? Are there any foreign players who can realistically compete in Korea, let alone a whole team?
Sziky and Kolll. If LRM) was in Korea, and training in Korea, with a couple additions of the strongest player from the following best 2 foreign teams, then yes.
This is nonsense ,no way kespa is going to give you exemptions unless you have pro gaming license . If you guys seriously want to establish your own team , you could have at least win a courage tournament and say okay I am a pro gamer now . Look I have the credentials to play these game good and I am up to the level of korean pro gamers . Sponsors will flock to you obviously and no doubts from kespa will even accept your team in to the league .
On September 28 2011 17:02 arbiter_md wrote: I don't understand much of these news, but since most of the people say it's good news I will consider that BW is saved!
basically it says that Sponsors still holds interest in BW, which is incredibly good news
But they don't say to what extend the companies are willing to sponsor for all we know there's only 1 big sponsor and 5 very small ones. If that's the case it gives a whole other message than 6 big sponsors. I'm glad they found some sponsors though ^^.
Cautious optimism is good, but when you consider the alternative (dire BW situation over all) I think this is unequivocally good.
What could realistically be better? The Pope, Barack Obama, Dave Beckham, and Blizzard all saying BW is their highest priority and committing half of the resources under their control to it?
This is awesome news imo. Will be interesting to see how it unfolds.
On September 28 2011 16:35 ICanFlyLow wrote: I wish they would atleast have 1 foreign team or a few foreign players onboard
Like who? Are there any foreign players who can realistically compete in Korea, let alone a whole team?
Sziky and Kolll. If LRM) was in Korea, and training in Korea, with a couple additions of the strongest player from the following best 2 foreign teams, then yes.
This is nonsense ,no way kespa is going to give you exemptions unless you have pro gaming license . If you guys seriously want to establish your own team , you could have at least win a courage tournament and say okay I am a pro gamer now . Look I have the credentials to play these game good and I am up to the level of korean pro gamers . Sponsors will flock to you obviously and no doubts from kespa will even accept your team in to the league .
What? He didn't say anything about exemptions. He just said who can realistically compete, i think Kolll definitely could personally. But it isn't feasible and neither probably want to give up everything to do that.
On September 28 2011 16:35 ICanFlyLow wrote: I wish they would atleast have 1 foreign team or a few foreign players onboard
Like who? Are there any foreign players who can realistically compete in Korea, let alone a whole team?
Sziky and Kolll. If LRM) was in Korea, and training in Korea, with a couple additions of the strongest player from the following best 2 foreign teams, then yes.
Team like that could really win like 2 maybe 3 matches in entire season !
Go foreigners !
On topic It's good news. Not best since teams won't be kept like they used to be( I mean roster wise ). I also wonder what will be the names of new teams. Perhaps KeSPa DQ Oz or PPP ZiZI Yo Fox ?
On September 28 2011 16:35 ICanFlyLow wrote: I wish they would atleast have 1 foreign team or a few foreign players onboard
Like who? Are there any foreign players who can realistically compete in Korea, let alone a whole team?
Sziky and Kolll. If LRM) was in Korea, and training in Korea, with a couple additions of the strongest player from the following best 2 foreign teams, then yes.
On September 28 2011 04:22 eton7410 wrote: The new teams formed next season will not be a republic of the old teams. Players will be distributed evenly with their ranking and races. The rest of the players will be FA.
On September 28 2011 16:35 ICanFlyLow wrote: I wish they would atleast have 1 foreign team or a few foreign players onboard
Like who? Are there any foreign players who can realistically compete in Korea, let alone a whole team?
Sziky and Kolll. If LRM) was in Korea, and training in Korea, with a couple additions of the strongest player from the following best 2 foreign teams, then yes.
Mechanically speaking, I call bullshit I'd wager on B-teamers against either of them carrying a 70% or 80% winrate and invest every dollar I had against you.
I don't mean this as disrespectful. You're a good guy, and you have the best interests of foreign BW (other than trying to CHARGE for replays + Show Spoiler +
LOL
), but you're letting your judgment be clouded by your ties here to the point that you are very biased.
Did you see Kolll at WCG? He wasn't even close to being as good as the Koreans. The same year, Louder tried to 2 gate Jaedong. Guess how many kills mutalisks had. I would bet on a team filled with former B-teamers that don't get taken over a team of foreigners.
However, you are right that the only way to rectify this situation is a foreign practice house, but is your suggestion ten years too late? Without a huge sponsor, a bunch of 17 year olds who have no obligations, hope with girls, etc, and the ability to bring them all together under the same roof somewhere in Incheon... yeah
If Kolll didn't show the potential to be one day an A-team progamer, then who else? I'm pretty sure he meant after some time in Korea. Not immediately. Kolll was 14 at the WCG where he came 4th. Now of course a few years lost of possible hard practice is bad but i think if he had the potential then he's still got it and could do something for sure. But this is all theoretical and i believe he's correctly focusing on education. Like i said in another topic in the past i would have chosen Kolll/gosi[terran] out of anyone to 'realistically' compete over there.
To be honest i think KeSPA would legitimately welcome the publicity of a foreign player with everything that's happened lately, if someone had a line of communication with them. But i'm not sure anybody right now is willing to dedicate their all to it, i might be wrong though i'm not familar with a lot of the foreign players situations.
On September 28 2011 23:12 infinity2k9 wrote: If Kolll didn't show the potential to be one day an A-team progamer, then who else? I'm pretty sure he meant after some time in Korea. Not immediately. Kolll was 14 at the WCG where he came 4th. Now of course a few years lost of possible hard practice is bad but i think if he had the potential then he's still got it and could do something for sure. But this is all theoretical and i believe he's correctly focusing on education. Like i said in another topic in the past i would have chosen Kolll/gosi[terran] out of anyone to 'realistically' compete over there.
To be honest i think KeSPA would legitimately welcome the publicity of a foreign player with everything that's happened lately, if someone had a line of communication with them. But i'm not sure anybody right now is willing to dedicate their all to it, i might be wrong though i'm not familar with a lot of the foreign players situations.
I agree tl.net should sponsor koll to qualify in courage :D
I don't really get what KeSPA management of all the teams means, but I guess we'll have to wait and see for that one. For now, this sounds like excellent news! :D
While I came in only with the SC2 scene, I think I've got the idea of what KeSPA is up to.
For an American audience, they seem to be headed into a MLS-like system. In that system, KeSPA would actually "own" the teams. The teams wouldn't be run by KeSPA though. They'd have a team principal that makes those choices. They'd be doing this mostly so the title sponsors don't have to foot all of the bill for the costs. This also allows them to bring in more sponsors at a lower cost.
The general idea is, just throwing out hypothetical numbers, that a team costs say 3 million USD a year. But the companies don't feel like they get that return anymore on that much money. But they might feel they'd be fine at 1.5 million USD per year. There is a problem, however, as team sponsorship is an "either/or" decision. With KeSPA actually owning the teams, they sponsors can buy in, for possibly multiple teams, at a lower cost. Say Korean Air wants to sponsor 4 teams @ 500 thousand USD a year? Now they could, and they'd have their logos show up in roughly 50% of all matches.
That would make a lot of sense, but we're working with a double translated speculation. So, take it as that until we have more information.
If this works out well, it could set a precedence for all following e-Sports organizations that reach a certain level of influence in the progaming commercial scene.
I'm excited by at least 8 teams next season, the BW scene has been nothing but bad news for so long, that this certainly seems to be a change in tone for the scene.
Awsome. I suspect we will see Jaedong move to one of these newer teams ? I wonder if it will be possible for other already established players to change teams ? This will get interesting.
Really love the news - I rarely post, but I was so scared SC was gonna die in Korea. It's been with me since the beginning of High School, and just starting college, I feel SC is one of my remaining connections to my childhood. Really happy that SC is still going :DD
I'm optimistic. The whole KeSpa management thing will be cleared up eventually. I doubt it means they take on anything more than a greater administrative role.
everything sounds good except the kespa is gonna manage thing... I guess they mean the business side or something? don't see why they would replace the real managers who make the lineup decisions, could create some type of moral hazard would it not?
It's actually quite exciting to wait to see what new team formations we'll see. Sea and Jaedong in the same team would be awesome. They both have this aura of diligence and modesty around them that I have grown to respect. Throw in Killer and some up and coming rookies from disbanded teams and I have something to truly cheer for.
On September 28 2011 04:35 Chill wrote: So the players' association also manages the players? That's strange to say the least.
I could actually see that developing into a situation where there's a conflict of interest on the part of the association...but let's see what happens.
On September 29 2011 02:33 amazingoopah wrote: everything sounds good except the kespa is gonna manage thing... I guess they mean the business side or something? don't see why they would replace the real managers who make the lineup decisions, could create some type of moral hazard would it not?
They won't decide team linups for sure. New responsibilities for Kespa will be things like accommodation, PR and such...
If it is true the main goal will be probably to stop the same thing happening again with a load of gamers left possibly screwed when a sponsor pulls out. They are not going to effect any day to day running of the team, why would they.
This whole Kespa organization sounds mighty suspect. I don't understand how they have gotten so much power, but it doesn't seem like it could be good for esports in the long run.
On September 28 2011 04:35 Chill wrote: So the players' association also manages the players? That's strange to say the least.
I could actually see that developing into a situation where there's a conflict of interest on the part of the association...but let's see what happens.
I guess it technically could be considered a conflict of interest, but the idea of player's association managing the.... players..... is more non-sense than anything else.
On September 29 2011 00:00 Taf the Ghost wrote: While I came in only with the SC2 scene, I think I've got the idea of what KeSPA is up to.
For an American audience, they seem to be headed into a MLS-like system. In that system, KeSPA would actually "own" the teams. The teams wouldn't be run by KeSPA though. They'd have a team principal that makes those choices. They'd be doing this mostly so the title sponsors don't have to foot all of the bill for the costs. This also allows them to bring in more sponsors at a lower cost.
The general idea is, just throwing out hypothetical numbers, that a team costs say 3 million USD a year. But the companies don't feel like they get that return anymore on that much money. But they might feel they'd be fine at 1.5 million USD per year. There is a problem, however, as team sponsorship is an "either/or" decision. With KeSPA actually owning the teams, they sponsors can buy in, for possibly multiple teams, at a lower cost. Say Korean Air wants to sponsor 4 teams @ 500 thousand USD a year? Now they could, and they'd have their logos show up in roughly 50% of all matches.
That would make a lot of sense, but we're working with a double translated speculation. So, take it as that until we have more information.
That is what I kind of thought, them consolidating and sort of selling BW as a package deal, to deal with any poor ROI's from less popular or successful teams. I am curious though now as to also what happens to like KT. If they are pooling finances, can they still justify paying someone like Flash his salary or will they have to sort of budget it out in such a way as to not take money away from less successful teams.
On September 29 2011 00:00 Taf the Ghost wrote: While I came in only with the SC2 scene, I think I've got the idea of what KeSPA is up to.
For an American audience, they seem to be headed into a MLS-like system. In that system, KeSPA would actually "own" the teams. The teams wouldn't be run by KeSPA though. They'd have a team principal that makes those choices. They'd be doing this mostly so the title sponsors don't have to foot all of the bill for the costs. This also allows them to bring in more sponsors at a lower cost.
The general idea is, just throwing out hypothetical numbers, that a team costs say 3 million USD a year. But the companies don't feel like they get that return anymore on that much money. But they might feel they'd be fine at 1.5 million USD per year. There is a problem, however, as team sponsorship is an "either/or" decision. With KeSPA actually owning the teams, they sponsors can buy in, for possibly multiple teams, at a lower cost. Say Korean Air wants to sponsor 4 teams @ 500 thousand USD a year? Now they could, and they'd have their logos show up in roughly 50% of all matches.
That would make a lot of sense, but we're working with a double translated speculation. So, take it as that until we have more information.
That is what I kind of thought, them consolidating and sort of selling BW as a package deal, to deal with any poor ROI's from less popular or successful teams. I am curious though now as to also what happens to like KT. If they are pooling finances, can they still justify paying someone like Flash his salary or will they have to sort of budget it out in such a way as to not take money away from less successful teams.
A lot of unanswered questions....
Re-read the OP!
Just going to say this one last time. The part about Kespa managing the 1-2 NEW teams (not existing teams like KT) that will be formed, was a statement added into the summary by plu.cn (Chinese website). It might or might not turn out to be true.
Edit: This is in Community News now. Which means more Kespa bashing to come. I'm out.
On September 29 2011 03:04 Chenz wrote: This whole Kespa organization sounds mighty suspect. I don't understand how they have gotten so much power, but it doesn't seem like it could be good for esports in the long run.
On September 29 2011 03:05 Headnoob wrote: I do not like the idea of KESPA having even more control than it already does.
Guys that signed up in 2010 and probably don't even follow BW: KeSPA is made up of the sponsors. They have all control over the scene already. This is just a move to help protect players from disbanded teams, it's a good idea. KeSPA controls every aspect already that's what the point of a governing body of eSports.
Lately they are doing a good job it seems and managed to attract sponsors in the face of people saying it will die. Previously the main problem people had with them were strict referee decisions which were down to one guy really. Let's have some perspective here in the grand scale of things - this is what's more important than the petty things. Let the SC2 deluded guys rally against the KeSPA boogeyman (despite that they have no idea how it exists or operates) while they still lack any good sponsors and have high level players with no salaries.
ahaha, Its like in school where the gymnastics teacher place you into a group for some team game. Maybe kespa finally has been completly infiltrated by the north side...
On September 29 2011 03:23 Nomad- wrote: wtf is the point of the competition if kespa is controlling absolutely anything. Just send player x vs player x a thousand times.
KeSPA isn't the coaches you complete idiot. Firstly the statement might not even be true, secondly its for the management. AND KESPA IS MADE UP OF THE FUCKING SPONSORS SO ITS NO DIFFERENT.
Like if someone puts kespa in their post they should have a box telling them 'do you even know what kespa is and what they do' and if they still post ban.
Ah what great, great news!! BW shall continue to live on, and it looks like we will still have a full and awesome proleague, especially if the reformed teams can be made into solid contenders.
Needless to say I'm pumped for hearing what the new teams will be in October and even more so for proleague again in Novemeber!!!!!
Also, prepare for incoming waves of ignorance about KeSPA and what "managing" teams would mean...
wtf is the point of the competition if kespa is controlling absolutely anything. Just send player x vs player x a thousand times.
....
KeSPA isn't running the teams themselves, setting line-ups, etc. That's what the coaches are there for.
On September 29 2011 03:28 infinity2k9 wrote: KeSPA isn't the coaches you complete idiot. Firstly the statement might not even be true, secondly its for the management. AND KESPA IS MADE UP OF THE FUCKING SPONSORS SO ITS NO DIFFERENT.
Like if someone puts kespa in their post they should have a box telling them 'do you even know what kespa is and what they do' and if they still post ban.
Man, KeSPA's a pretty cool guy, managing all these teams and such. Must be a ton of business and it'll probably be easier on the teams. I don't think it should really affect play/tournaments too much though because all the coaches/teamnames will stay the same right?
On September 29 2011 03:23 Nomad- wrote: wtf is the point of the competition if kespa is controlling absolutely anything. Just send player x vs player x a thousand times.
I'm not sure you have fully grasped the situation. But just to point out one small mistake you made: KeSPA will not control "absolutely anything".
Here's to hoping that the new team will get a hilarious name. I would enjoy something along the lines of The Finger of Boom, The Grandmasters of KeSPArov or KeSPAradise Lost.
On September 29 2011 03:38 Dakure wrote: Man, KeSPA's a pretty cool guy, managing all these teams and such. Must be a ton of business and it'll probably be easier on the teams. I don't think it should really affect play/tournaments too much though because all the coaches/teamnames will stay the same right?
KeSPA is an abbreviation for Korean e-Sports Association, just so you know that it's not a person.
On September 28 2011 04:37 Black Gun wrote: as much as i would like to take this as good news, i cant fight the gut feeling of mine that this sounds like a government taking over control of a bankrupt company.
i think it was a bad idea to put this in the community headlines....
too many ignorant sc2 people who have no idea what they are talking about. yes, kespa could be better but kespa has the clout to bring in sponsors, when needed, to save the 3 disbanding bw teams. kespa has a bad image in tl which is partly deserved, but in some ways they are a necessary evil. people always complain about government control but they don't realize how much of their everyday lives which they take for granted is possible because of the government. kespa is playing a similar role for the bw scene in korea and note that there is NO reference to kespa's management of teams in the original korean article.
in sc2, you may have rejoiced that sc2 has no kespa but look at what's happening to the korean sc2 scene without a professional government body: sc2 teams don't have an entity like kespa that can formally attract big corporation sponsors to sc2 teams; instead the managers of sc2 teams are having to attract sponsors themselves and given that the managers/coaches have a progaming background, not a business background, they aren't very influential in convincing big corporate sponsors. the only relatively well off team is slayers but that's almost entirely hinged on boxer's fame from his bw days. and even then, slayers (and all other sc2 teams) aren't owned by the corporations themselves like in bw (that's why bw teams are named SKT, or KT, or Samsung Khan, etc.) so there's less stability in the future. just look at prime.we, they're living off being sponsored by some bbq chicken company.
Yep, check the first couple pages to get real BW people's responses. Don't bother with this thread anymore... I wish Day9 or someone in the SC2 community would clarify KeSPA's position in BW so people would stop blindly hating on them for keeping BW alive.
I'm not sure whether I like it or not. For one kespa kind of saves the proleague with this move, for which i'm really really grateful. I love watching Broodwar a lot more than watching sc2, although i started playing sc2 now. on the other hand, they have ultimate power now. as long as they don't screw it up, i'm just glad broodwar gets more PL seasons.
Kespa grabs more power, shocking. To me it cheapens the whole "team" feel when they are all managed by one entity. Never see this in other sports. The nba/nfl ect set the rules for the league and so on, they don't control all the teams right down to what players are on what team and what not, that would kill those sports.
Ignoring all this Kespa is power hungry or greedy talk, this is actually a clever solution: if companies are afraid of sponsoring a single potentially-lower tier team all by themselves, why not have a grab bag of sponsors split the sponsorship over multiple teams? So on that note, I approve.
On September 29 2011 04:33 SlaveboyZerg wrote: This should probably now have been headline news. SC2 is the game to promote now, for the good of the overall community.
Whoa dude, how is not supporting BW good for the overall community? It's not like SC2 support is missing because of this. Careful now!
On September 29 2011 04:06 J1.au wrote: Wow, Community News strikes again.
LOL
after a while all the kespa bashing gets boring, no love for managing the best esport ever -.- also people should read the thread before posting some question thats been answered many times
On September 29 2011 04:33 SlaveboyZerg wrote: This should probably now have been headline news. SC2 is the game to promote now, for the good of the overall community.
Whoa dude, how is not supporting BW good for the overall community? It's not like SC2 support is missing because of this. Careful now!
Wow some people just don't understand how offensive statements like these are. They probably never played Brood War or watched pro matches, so I don't blame them.
EDIT: To clarify, I'm referring to SlaveboyZerg's post, not Lumi's.
I find this announcement a little disturbing... Certainly don't agree with centralized management, but... who am I to say anything. Sincerely hope this works but I don't see it working for a long period.
On September 29 2011 04:17 mitthrawn wrote: So KeSPA controls everything and everyone? I don't get why people think this would be good for BW. Seriously.
Because they do a good job of keeping the scene alive and the companies behind Kespa have a lot of mula in them .
On September 29 2011 04:17 mitthrawn wrote: So KeSPA controls everything and everyone? I don't get why people think this would be good for BW. Seriously.
maybe because they already controlled everything and everyone. That's what happens when the organization literally consists of the sponsors that are behind the teams
So the new management system is most likely just concerning the financial aspect of things right? Intead of money going directly from sponsor to team, it goes through Kespa? I don't really mind it as long as some shady suits don't start skimming off the top to earn a little extra cash or something. If money gets to the right people on time, and the coaches and players are left to do their thing, does it really matter?
On September 29 2011 04:17 mitthrawn wrote: So KeSPA controls everything and everyone? I don't get why people think this would be good for BW. Seriously.
Why would it be bad? It's more efficient having a centralized structure that does the management side of things and finds and deals with sponsors than having teams depend directly on their parent corporation/company.
I think this is great. I really don't see how it could be bad. Kespa pretty much already controls everything...and teams not having to disband when they lose their only sponsor is just crappy.
When we comment on SC2 we actually know about it and whats going on. When retards come in and shit up news threads, they don't know anything about it. None of you know what KeSPA is or what they do, blatantly obvious. So don't post in a thread about a comment from the President of KeSPA talking stupid bullshit that you made up.
On September 29 2011 04:18 hmmm... wrote: i think it was a bad idea to put this in the community headlines....
Yeah, definitely a bad idea to put this news out to the general community... would be better if future headlines like this would not be mentioned at all... maybe the news should just be distributed to the hardcore BW fans via PM so everyone can circle-jerk each other more effectively and there's nothing of that dreaded negativity or *gasp* criticism here.
*shudders*
C'mon man. You can't just isolate yourself and ignore the outside world. Either you embrace the larger community or you wither off and die because there's no new blood.
I don't know whether to take this as good news or bad news. Kespa controlling the BW scene may or may not be good for the competition. My concern is, would prospective professional players not then be deprived of having a chance to compete, since Kespa might not see their potential and appoint them to a team?
It would seem that this will be great for the scene as a whole, and I understand that. Especially given that the industry now has more support because Kespa will be owning the players in essence. Competition will be tougher and more strict, but I can just wonder how this regulation will affect the players. Hopefully all turns out for the better.
KeSPA isn't running the teams themselves, setting line-ups, etc. That's what the coaches are there for.
And Kespa are the sponsors of the teams, the teams are paying the coaches, sooo.... Kespa also has control over the coaches and lineups, if they choose to do so. Fuck, if the president of Kespa thinks SK Telecom should send out Fantasy instead of ssak because it'll be better for the ratings - how the fuck is one of the coaches who's basically employed by Kespa to say no to that?
Of course it's just hypothetical, but as Chill has pointed out, these are very real concerns that come along with one organisation controlling every aspect of a league.
Hence why pretty much every other pro league in the world has independent teams not under the control of a single governing body controlling sponsors, teams, right down to individual players.
The large majority of the TL community is voicing their concerns here, and with good reason.
On September 29 2011 04:18 hmmm... wrote: i think it was a bad idea to put this in the community headlines....
Yeah, definitely a bad idea to put this news out to the general community... would be better if future headlines like this would not be mentioned at all... maybe the news should just be distributed to the hardcore BW fans via PM so everyone can circle-jerk each other more effectively and there's nothing of that dreaded negativity or *gasp* criticism here.
*shudders*
C'mon man. You can't just isolate yourself and ignore the outside world. Either you embrace the larger community or you wither off and die because there's no new blood.
We can take the negativity and criticism. What we're tired of is ignorance and inability to read (although I agree this shouldn't be generalized to exclusively SC2 population as I'm quite sure even some of the BW fans posses these characteristics).
KeSPA isn't running the teams themselves, setting line-ups, etc. That's what the coaches are there for.
And Kespa are the sponsors of the teams, the teams are paying the coaches, sooo.... Kespa also has control over the coaches and lineups, if they choose to do so. Fuck, if the president of Kespa thinks SK Telecom should send out Fantasy instead of ssak because it'll be better for the ratings - how the fuck is one of the coaches who's basically employed by Kespa to say no to that?
Of course it's just hypothetical, but as Chill has pointed out, these are very real concerns that come along with one organisation controlling every aspect of a league.
Hence why pretty much every other pro league in the world has independent teams not under the control of a single governing body controlling sponsors, teams, right down to individual players.
The large majority of the TL community is voicing their concerns here, and with good reason.
It's pretty obvious from your Fantasy-Ssak example that you either didn't read or didn't understand the entire OP. Neither did you read the last few pages of the thread. So stop spouting nonsense.
Great news. I hope Brood War lives forever. I don't understand all the hates towards Kespa. Evidently they've been fanfuckingtastic in developing professional BW.
On September 29 2011 04:18 hmmm... wrote: i think it was a bad idea to put this in the community headlines....
Yeah, definitely a bad idea to put this news out to the general community... would be better if future headlines like this would not be mentioned at all... maybe the news should just be distributed to the hardcore BW fans via PM so everyone can circle-jerk each other more effectively and there's nothing of that dreaded negativity or *gasp* criticism here.
*shudders*
C'mon man. You can't just isolate yourself and ignore the outside world. Either you embrace the larger community or you wither off and die because there's no new blood.
The point is that SC2 players don't even care about BW, so when they see BW threads in the news section, they will pop in to troll or post a snide comment. Honestly, BW news should just be posted in the BW forums, because the people who do care about the game will read the BW section anyways. Your dumb remark at the end of your post is exactly what I'm talking about.
headlining this news will only attract all new sc2 ppl - who mostly do not know anything about kespa or bw history. ppl who are truly interested in bw news will already have seen this. most of the bullshit/ignorant comments about kespa are coming from ppl whos tl join date is the start of 2010 and beyond - the date where sc2 beta started and the huge influx of sc2 ppl
KeSPA isn't running the teams themselves, setting line-ups, etc. That's what the coaches are there for.
And Kespa are the sponsors of the teams, the teams are paying the coaches, sooo.... Kespa also has control over the coaches and lineups, if they choose to do so. Fuck, if the president of Kespa thinks SK Telecom should send out Fantasy instead of ssak because it'll be better for the ratings - how the fuck is one of the coaches who's basically employed by Kespa to say no to that?
Of course it's just hypothetical, but as Chill has pointed out, these are very real concerns that come along with one organisation controlling every aspect of a league.
Hence why pretty much every other pro league in the world has independent teams not under the control of a single governing body controlling sponsors, teams, right down to individual players.
The large majority of the TL community is voicing their concerns here, and with good reason.
It's pretty obvious from your Fantasy-Ssak example that you either didn't read or didn't understand the entire OP. Neither did you read the last few pages of the thread. So stop spouting nonsense.
Just wanted to add on Ryo's comment and overall statement of people coming in with misinformation spread within them. KeSPA is the corporations that are sponsoring the teams. I repeat, KeSPA is made up of the corporate sponsors. That includes (but not limited to) the following: SK Telecom (Current president of KeSPA is from SK Telecom), Samsung, KT, CJ, OGN, etc.
So yes, in that one certain example, the President of KeSPA really can tell Fantasy instead of ssak if he uses all his powers because he is the head of SK Telecom.... But like many said, KeSPA (or should I really say, corporate sponsors) already have control over the scene because they are the same sponsors who funds the players, give them a house, pay the coaches and the players, etc even before this announcement. After this news, they will do the same exact freaking thing.
Why is it so hard for people to understand?
KeSPA = corporate sponsors
If KeSPA don't exist, we don't have "Samsung" in Khan, and it'll be just called T1 or Rolster....
On September 29 2011 04:18 hmmm... wrote: i think it was a bad idea to put this in the community headlines....
Yeah, definitely a bad idea to put this news out to the general community... would be better if future headlines like this would not be mentioned at all... maybe the news should just be distributed to the hardcore BW fans via PM so everyone can circle-jerk each other more effectively and there's nothing of that dreaded negativity or *gasp* criticism here.
*shudders*
C'mon man. You can't just isolate yourself and ignore the outside world. Either you embrace the larger community or you wither off and die because there's no new blood.
The point is that SC2 players don't even care about BW, so when they see BW threads in the news section, they will pop in to troll or post a snide comment. Honestly, BW news should just be posted in the BW forums, because the people who do care about the game will read the BW section anyways. Your dumb remark at the end of your post is exactly what I'm talking about.
Door swings both ways, people who pick a side trash the other. Although I do not see how keeping BW related news and info in a bubble is going to help expand its audience, perhaps if it is so bad then TL should split into two sites, TLClassic and TL2 or something.
On September 29 2011 04:18 hmmm... wrote: i think it was a bad idea to put this in the community headlines....
Yeah, definitely a bad idea to put this news out to the general community... would be better if future headlines like this would not be mentioned at all... maybe the news should just be distributed to the hardcore BW fans via PM so everyone can circle-jerk each other more effectively and there's nothing of that dreaded negativity or *gasp* criticism here.
*shudders*
C'mon man. You can't just isolate yourself and ignore the outside world. Either you embrace the larger community or you wither off and die because there's no new blood.
The point is that SC2 players don't even care about BW, so when they see BW threads in the news section, they will pop in to troll or post a snide comment. Honestly, BW news should just be posted in the BW forums, because the people who do care about the game will read the BW section anyways. Your dumb remark at the end of your post is exactly what I'm talking about.
Door swings both ways, people who pick a side trash the other. Although I do not see how keeping BW related news and info in a bubble is going to help expand its audience, perhaps if it is so bad then TL should split into two sites, TLClassic and TL2 or something.
You can't split it. Because SC2 can't live without BW (e.g. stupid terms bonjwa, starleague...)
Would TL benefit from seperating the website into 2 different ones? With the project going on with the broodwar LP it seems like the timing couldn't be better.
I just hate reading all the unnesessary SC2 vs BW posts, BW/SC2 players alike
Actually these are good news, Kespa is formed basically for the sponsors, so it has nothing wrong, about SC2 followers, I think is very clear that all are welcome but not when they dont know anything about some issues and post only trash. I remember one thread when most of the people didnt even know what Kespa was and many of them were bashing it, that was disgusting.
On September 29 2011 04:18 hmmm... wrote: i think it was a bad idea to put this in the community headlines....
Yeah, definitely a bad idea to put this news out to the general community... would be better if future headlines like this would not be mentioned at all... maybe the news should just be distributed to the hardcore BW fans via PM so everyone can circle-jerk each other more effectively and there's nothing of that dreaded negativity or *gasp* criticism here.
*shudders*
C'mon man. You can't just isolate yourself and ignore the outside world. Either you embrace the larger community or you wither off and die because there's no new blood.
The point is that SC2 players don't even care about BW, so when they see BW threads in the news section, they will pop in to troll or post a snide comment. Honestly, BW news should just be posted in the BW forums, because the people who do care about the game will read the BW section anyways. Your dumb remark at the end of your post is exactly what I'm talking about.
Door swings both ways, people who pick a side trash the other. Although I do not see how keeping BW related news and info in a bubble is going to help expand its audience, perhaps if it is so bad then TL should split into two sites, TLClassic and TL2 or something.
The foreign BW audience is so small that it doesn't even matter if it expands or not imo. I think it's just better isolate the news posts to keep the BW threads clean and just appreciate BW for what it is, while it lasts.
On September 29 2011 04:18 hmmm... wrote: i think it was a bad idea to put this in the community headlines....
Yeah, definitely a bad idea to put this news out to the general community... would be better if future headlines like this would not be mentioned at all... maybe the news should just be distributed to the hardcore BW fans via PM so everyone can circle-jerk each other more effectively and there's nothing of that dreaded negativity or *gasp* criticism here.
*shudders*
C'mon man. You can't just isolate yourself and ignore the outside world. Either you embrace the larger community or you wither off and die because there's no new blood.
The point is that SC2 players don't even care about BW, so when they see BW threads in the news section, they will pop in to troll or post a snide comment. Honestly, BW news should just be posted in the BW forums, because the people who do care about the game will read the BW section anyways. Your dumb remark at the end of your post is exactly what I'm talking about.
Door swings both ways, people who pick a side trash the other. Although I do not see how keeping BW related news and info in a bubble is going to help expand its audience, perhaps if it is so bad then TL should split into two sites, TLClassic and TL2 or something.
The foreign BW audience is so small that it doesn't even matter if it expands or not imo. I think it's just better isolate the news posts to keep the BW threads clean and just appreciate BW for what it is, while it lasts.
Nope, it does matter. Foreign BW will grow, we just have to catalyse it in the right way. Incidentally, have you told your friends about BW?
But that's not what this thread is about- people trash us too hard, they'll be banned.
I really don't know where the demonising of Kespa came from originally... Could it really be the implementation of those (admittedly slightly stupid) in-game typing rules? I'm personally very excited for the next season. Fresh competition, fresh action, and Horang2 to win it all!!! Damn I love that kid...
Yeah, I think this is good news. Kespa is trying to send a message to potential sponsors that is has all their concerns under control, such as match-fixing, etc. And they would have to be pretty stupid to decide match lineups of multiple teams. The chance of that happening is next to 0. And that isn't even taking into account what QuickStriker said, that they have had the chance to do that ever since they were formed. Give them some credit for brains.
On September 29 2011 04:18 hmmm... wrote: i think it was a bad idea to put this in the community headlines....
Yeah, definitely a bad idea to put this news out to the general community... would be better if future headlines like this would not be mentioned at all... maybe the news should just be distributed to the hardcore BW fans via PM so everyone can circle-jerk each other more effectively and there's nothing of that dreaded negativity or *gasp* criticism here.
*shudders*
C'mon man. You can't just isolate yourself and ignore the outside world. Either you embrace the larger community or you wither off and die because there's no new blood.
The point is that SC2 players don't even care about BW, so when they see BW threads in the news section, they will pop in to troll or post a snide comment. Honestly, BW news should just be posted in the BW forums, because the people who do care about the game will read the BW section anyways. Your dumb remark at the end of your post is exactly what I'm talking about.
Door swings both ways, people who pick a side trash the other. Although I do not see how keeping BW related news and info in a bubble is going to help expand its audience, perhaps if it is so bad then TL should split into two sites, TLClassic and TL2 or something.
The foreign BW audience is so small that it doesn't even matter if it expands or not imo. I think it's just better isolate the news posts to keep the BW threads clean and just appreciate BW for what it is, while it lasts.
Nope, it does matter. Foreign BW will grow, we just have to catalyse it in the right way. Incidentally, have you told your friends about BW?
But that's not what this thread is about- people trash us too hard, they'll be banned.
I really don't know where the demonising of Kespa came from originally... Could it really be the implementation of those (admittedly slightly stupid) in-game typing rules? I'm personally very excited for the next season. Fresh competition, fresh action, and Horang2 to win it all!!! Damn I love that kid...
SC2 fans are obviously jealous of our ignorance, arrogance and elitism.
Hey!!!!! Great news I'm really happy , I can't say I've ever really watched professional broodwar (me being a starcraft 2 newbie) but I know this news makes alot of people really happy and it's great for e-sports so i'm exstatic!
On September 29 2011 07:21 DIRESTRAIT wrote: Hey!!!!! Great news I'm really happy , I can't say I've ever really watched professional broodwar (me being a starcraft 2 newbie) but I know this news makes alot of people really happy and it's great for e-sports so i'm exstatic!
On September 29 2011 07:21 DIRESTRAIT wrote: Hey!!!!! Great news I'm really happy , I can't say I've ever really watched professional broodwar (me being a starcraft 2 newbie) but I know this news makes alot of people really happy and it's great for e-sports so i'm exstatic!
You don't need to post, if you don't want to...
Hey, don't complain. If everyone trolled like that, we wouldn't have a lot of the problems that we have to deal with.
I'm so glad that there will still be proleague! I don't think that Kespa would really mess with the actual coaching of the players of the teams they manage or anything like that. Hopefully it's just financial support that BW needs. I also don't get why there's so much hate and trolling in these kinds of threads. I love both BW and SC2, and there's no real reason why they both can't exist.
Stop being jerks to each other please. Stop talking about seperate TL sites, BW vs SC2, or which fan base is retarded/ignorant/elitist/old/constipated.
Don't post in the thread unless you take the time to read the situation.
Don't post in the thread to let others know that they should have been banned longer.
Don't post int he thread to claim that kespa is the evil empire based on you reading the translated musing of a random Chinese blogger.
Honestly people, this is common sense. I hate the fact that I have to moderate to the lowest common denominator. Make my job easier please.
I am a Starcraft 2 player as well, but I don't understand why most of us want BW to die, I think they should just live together and they can live together like the past year.
On September 28 2011 23:12 infinity2k9 wrote: If Kolll didn't show the potential to be one day an A-team progamer, then who else? I'm pretty sure he meant after some time in Korea. Not immediately. Kolll was 14 at the WCG where he came 4th. Now of course a few years lost of possible hard practice is bad but i think if he had the potential then he's still got it and could do something for sure. But this is all theoretical and i believe he's correctly focusing on education. Like i said in another topic in the past i would have chosen Kolll/gosi[terran] out of anyone to 'realistically' compete over there.
To be honest i think KeSPA would legitimately welcome the publicity of a foreign player with everything that's happened lately, if someone had a line of communication with them. But i'm not sure anybody right now is willing to dedicate their all to it, i might be wrong though i'm not familar with a lot of the foreign players situations.
I agree tl.net should sponsor koll to qualify in courage :D
That's excellent news, even as far more of an SC2 fan than a BW fan it's great news that BW isn't as dead as many were presuming it was about to be. Securing sponsors is something KESPA has always been excellent at, glad to see they're still managing it.
On September 29 2011 08:01 jmbthirteen wrote: It doesn't matter if you a fan of BW or sc2, the news that there are 5-6 companies interested in sponsoring is great news.
Actually, yeah, this is the best news that has come out of this announcement. Back when OZ was reported to disband, it looked like sponsors were pulling out and no one wanted to sponsor teams. Now we know how far from true that is. Quite a relief.
I think what people need to realize is that this is great news for BW, but even better news for SC2 (well not really better, but really great). The success of BW drives the success of SC2, so everyone should be happy.
On September 29 2011 08:07 mprs wrote: I think what people need to realize is that this is great news for BW, but even better news for SC2 (well not really better, but really great). The success of BW drives the success of SC2, so everyone should be happy.
Out of curiosity, how does one justify that the success of BW will drive the success of SCII? I'm curious about your reasoning (I don't really have an idea/opinion on this yet, however).
Thread after put in Community News = filled with SC2 trolls and ignorant KeSPA bashing
People who still like and follow BW are going to find this information on the BW forums that is (relatively) free of trolling. Every experience I have had with a BW topic that is put on community news is almost instantly met with trolling, red text everywhere and a huge mod warning at the top explicitly stated that SC2 vs BW discussions will not be tolerated. I definitely feel that some information should be put there, but when it is specific to only BW the result has not been one of overall positivity.
I personally feel the mods would save some time (and a few aspirin) if controversial topics like were kept to the BW forum.
To rebuke Imbatoss: there is a wealth of information on TL that can introduce a SC2 player to BW such as liquipedia, TLPD, the vods section, and most importantly the TL write-ups that are constantly put out. None of those invoke the trolling and disrespect some people show when news like this gets put on the community news section.
People of the great esport dominion, why are we being hostile toward each other? Yes we may have our differences and that there was a few conflicts but deep down we are all the same. We get the same rush when we see the professionals executing the impossible. We are all cheering for the same demographic. We are all a part of this little tiny population that are passionate about the same niche: professional gaming. So why the hate around? Deep down, we are all related with each other, the game might be different but the experience are almost identical. In the end, we are just creating feud inside of this big family.
On September 29 2011 08:10 setzer wrote: Thread before put in Community News = great!
Thread after put in Community News = filled with SC2 trolls and ignorant KeSPA bashing
I personally feel the mods would save some time (and a few aspirin) if controversial topics like were kept to the BW forum.
And then people such as myself wouldn't see it unless it turned up in the side bar. Being an existing fan of brood war should not be the only reason to see good nes like this. At the end of the day, TL is about esports and brood war is still one of the biggest in the world and the hallmark of what happens when something transcends a simple past time. I was actually really happy to see this on the front page as I feel both bw and sc2 can co-exist and be acessible to all fans.
On a side note, all front page news gets trolled. Check the NASL preview for examples.
On September 29 2011 08:07 mprs wrote: I think what people need to realize is that this is great news for BW, but even better news for SC2 (well not really better, but really great). The success of BW drives the success of SC2, so everyone should be happy.
Out of curiosity, how does one justify that the success of BW will drive the success of SCII? I'm curious about your reasoning (I don't really have an idea/opinion on this yet, however).
BW succeeding will keep companies interested in ESPORTS. The only way that bw dying would be good for SC2 is if the companies bailed out of bw teams to sponsor SC2, which wasn't the case, they were abandoning ESPORTS entirely.
BW legitimizes ESPORTS (especially to new companies thinking of sponsoring) by having big household brands sponsor them. Samsung, Korean Air, SKT1 etc are companies that are not niche companies. Look at the sponsors for SC2, (razor, kingston, steelseries) which cater to gamers that watch/play games. They are advertising to the choir. If you want ESPORTS to be big and mainstream (a thread awhile ago wanted it broadcasted on ESPN), then you better break out of your "niche" and be attractive enough to draw mainstream viewers. Sure there is the crazy chicken sponsor and pocari sweat showing some love to SC2. But at the end of the day, when BW dies, the sponsors has to shift to SC2, or ESPORTS heyday will be behind us.
That being said, due to the fanatical scbw fans, I truely believe scbw will outlast SC2, "all the cool kids are playing it", albeit in a cultlike/niche form.
On September 29 2011 08:07 mprs wrote: I think what people need to realize is that this is great news for BW, but even better news for SC2 (well not really better, but really great). The success of BW drives the success of SC2, so everyone should be happy.
Fully agree. To elaborate on this point, any sign that BW is recovering and can still continue bodes well for SC2 because of e-sports perception in general: that it's not really a sport. If BW can continue to survive and thrive financially through sponsors, then SC2 will always have that "potential" to be the next BW. If BW dies due to lack of financing, then potential sponsors for SC2 would see the sequel going down the path of its predecessor and hesitate to invest any money in it at all.
I think this applies not only to Korea but to the rest of the world as well. The world follows what happens in Korea, so if the professional league/scene dies, then that will affect how the foreign scene will be perceived as well. A dead GSL will = a dying SC2 scene.
Yay! I'm glad for several reasons. The biggest one is JD finally get's a new team he's been asking for. Hopefully with BaBy. I'm super curious on the teams now. SKT has been giving me fits for the past 2 years maybe I have a new team to root for.
I don't think they will "limit" salaries as much btw. The companies still sponsor and they still dictate the money they push into their teams. Just imagine TBLS not happy. I highly doubt Kespa wants there 4 Gods unhappy and... ya. I won't go there.
On September 28 2011 23:12 infinity2k9 wrote: If Kolll didn't show the potential to be one day an A-team progamer, then who else? I'm pretty sure he meant after some time in Korea. Not immediately. Kolll was 14 at the WCG where he came 4th. Now of course a few years lost of possible hard practice is bad but i think if he had the potential then he's still got it and could do something for sure. But this is all theoretical and i believe he's correctly focusing on education. Like i said in another topic in the past i would have chosen Kolll/gosi[terran] out of anyone to 'realistically' compete over there.
To be honest i think KeSPA would legitimately welcome the publicity of a foreign player with everything that's happened lately, if someone had a line of communication with them. But i'm not sure anybody right now is willing to dedicate their all to it, i might be wrong though i'm not familar with a lot of the foreign players situations.
I agree tl.net should sponsor koll to qualify in courage :D
I am not against this
Oh man, I would be so excited to see kolll give it a shot in Korea, the kid is just oozing with potential. It's a shame that we don't have Artosis to promote foreigners in the pro Korean scene anymore.
On September 29 2011 09:00 Seraphic wrote: Yay! I'm glad for several reasons. The biggest one is JD finally get's a new team he's been asking for. Hopefully with BaBy.
I am actually really hoping BaBy doesn't end up on a team with Jaedong. The two of them produce such awesome games that I would hate to see that matchup become a team kill.
On September 28 2011 04:30 Game wrote: This is great. I can foresee a couple of gossip problems outside of the league, but, other than that it's great. This goes out to all of those who doubted BW. We have something besides corporations, it's called patriotism. Get some. So awesomeeeeeeeee
"SC is like sex. You should play often, but never too hard. And you should only try hard when it matters."
Nice quote there joseph Can I take a wild guess and say, you lose a lot. My second guess is that when you lose, your rage centers around calling them a tryhard. <shrug>
On September 29 2011 08:10 setzer wrote: Thread before put in Community News = great!
Thread after put in Community News = filled with SC2 trolls and ignorant KeSPA bashing
People who still like and follow BW are going to find this information on the BW forums that is (relatively) free of trolling. Every experience I have had with a BW topic that is put on community news is almost instantly met with trolling, red text everywhere and a huge mod warning at the top explicitly stated that SC2 vs BW discussions will not be tolerated. I definitely feel that some information should be put there, but when it is specific to only BW the result has not been one of overall positivity.
I personally feel the mods would save some time (and a few aspirin) if controversial topics like were kept to the BW forum.
To rebuke Imbatoss: there is a wealth of information on TL that can introduce a SC2 player to BW such as liquipedia, TLPD, the vods section, and most importantly the TL write-ups that are constantly put out. None of those invoke the trolling and disrespect some people show when news like this gets put on the community news section.
User was warned for this post
Ouch, do I need rebuking? That hurts a little. I've worked pretty hard in this scene trying to make BW as attractive as possible.
On September 29 2011 07:52 MrSandman wrote: Edit: read the note above
Basically, long live brood war, go Kespa for helping the scene stay successful and let's look for some more damn good star league finals.
XD this. That OSL final had me on the edge of my seat til the last second... I actually said to my team on skype "shit, there's no way Jangbi could win this now". Absolute instant classic, if I was a CEO of anything I'd have been chucking sponsorship at the TV at that point
On September 28 2011 04:30 Game wrote: This is great. I can foresee a couple of gossip problems outside of the league, but, other than that it's great. This goes out to all of those who doubted BW. We have something besides corporations, it's called patriotism. Get some. So awesomeeeeeeeee
"SC is like sex. You should play often, but never too hard. And you should only try hard when it matters."
Nice quote there joseph Can I take a wild guess and say, you lose a lot. My second guess is that when you lose, your rage centers around calling them a tryhard. <shrug>
On September 29 2011 08:07 mprs wrote: I think what people need to realize is that this is great news for BW, but even better news for SC2 (well not really better, but really great). The success of BW drives the success of SC2, so everyone should be happy.
Fully agree. To elaborate on this point, any sign that BW is recovering and can still continue bodes well for SC2 because of e-sports perception in general: that it's not really a sport. If BW can continue to survive and thrive financially through sponsors, then SC2 will always have that "potential" to be the next BW. If BW dies due to lack of financing, then potential sponsors for SC2 would see the sequel going down the path of its predecessor and hesitate to invest any money in it at all.
I think this applies not only to Korea but to the rest of the world as well. The world follows what happens in Korea, so if the professional league/scene dies, then that will affect how the foreign scene will be perceived as well. A dead GSL will = a dying SC2 scene.
Or it can end up like the Counter-Strike scene where none of the games get enough attention to grow and evolve and slowly choke eachother to death. I fear that this may be the case. Esport in Korea may benefit from a flourishing BW scene in the long run, but not necessarily SC2.
That's a rather gloomy way to look at it but just as realistic as these 'this is grrreat for sc2!'-post.
On September 29 2011 08:07 mprs wrote: I think what people need to realize is that this is great news for BW, but even better news for SC2 (well not really better, but really great). The success of BW drives the success of SC2, so everyone should be happy.
Fully agree. To elaborate on this point, any sign that BW is recovering and can still continue bodes well for SC2 because of e-sports perception in general: that it's not really a sport. If BW can continue to survive and thrive financially through sponsors, then SC2 will always have that "potential" to be the next BW. If BW dies due to lack of financing, then potential sponsors for SC2 would see the sequel going down the path of its predecessor and hesitate to invest any money in it at all.
I think this applies not only to Korea but to the rest of the world as well. The world follows what happens in Korea, so if the professional league/scene dies, then that will affect how the foreign scene will be perceived as well. A dead GSL will = a dying SC2 scene.
Or it can end up like the Counter-Strike scene where none of the games get enough attention to grow and evolve and slowly choke eachother to death. I fear that this may be the case. Esport in Korea may benefit from a flourishing BW scene in the long run, but not necessarily SC2.
That's a rather gloomy way to look at it but just as realistic as these 'this is grrreat for sc2!'-post.
Much prefer the non-gloomy viewpoint, haha. When two scenarios seem equally realistic, I'd cast my lot with the optimistic outcome. It might hurt more, but it's always nicer to hope.
The CS scene was/is already an example of a scene that got badly divided. It didn't help that top players kept transferring teams (sounds familiar). At least we're all aware of what could happen, and can do our part to prevent that outcome for Starcraft in general. Moreover, we have a (currently) workable framework that we can just build on (Korean E-sports) and emulate in other places.
So if Kespa owns all teams how does player trading work? It seems to me that Kespa is unlikely to get into a biding war agaisn't themselves for players, how will this effect player salaries?
On September 29 2011 10:36 Krogan wrote: So if Kespa owns all teams how does player trading work? It seems to me that Kespa is unlikely to get into a biding war agaisn't themselves for players, how will this effect player salaries?
This new management thing only applies to any new teams formed, that's if it's applied at all. Regardless, none of the existing teams will be affected.
On September 29 2011 10:36 Krogan wrote: So if Kespa owns all teams how does player trading work? It seems to me that Kespa is unlikely to get into a biding war agaisn't themselves for players, how will this effect player salaries?
This new management thing only applies to any new teams formed, that's if it's applied at all. Regardless, none of the existing teams will be affected.
Alright I missed that, so you are saying 3 teams will be managed by the league (Kespa) and 5 teams by themselves? Hm I am sorry but if anything that sounds even more dodgy.
To be honest this sounds a lot like putting a band aid on someone that just had their arm ripped off.
On September 28 2011 23:12 infinity2k9 wrote: If Kolll didn't show the potential to be one day an A-team progamer, then who else? I'm pretty sure he meant after some time in Korea. Not immediately. Kolll was 14 at the WCG where he came 4th. Now of course a few years lost of possible hard practice is bad but i think if he had the potential then he's still got it and could do something for sure. But this is all theoretical and i believe he's correctly focusing on education. Like i said in another topic in the past i would have chosen Kolll/gosi[terran] out of anyone to 'realistically' compete over there.
To be honest i think KeSPA would legitimately welcome the publicity of a foreign player with everything that's happened lately, if someone had a line of communication with them. But i'm not sure anybody right now is willing to dedicate their all to it, i might be wrong though i'm not familar with a lot of the foreign players situations.
I agree tl.net should sponsor koll to qualify in courage :D
I am not against this
Oh man, I would be so excited to see kolll give it a shot in Korea, the kid is just oozing with potential. It's a shame that we don't have Artosis to promote foreigners in the pro Korean scene anymore.
I was working on somthing similar to this. My goal was to pit the best foreigners. against the newer blood on the Korean teams. It was to sort of see if foreigners would be able to auctally compete in something like courage and play against the Koreans well. If that was the case and foreigners could compete. That would be great. Of course that is nothing like courage. but it would be almost a test run. If Foreigners could compete. KeSPA might have taken notice of the foreigner scene and worked with foreigners.
The problem though will all this is KeSPA staff themselves. I sent them numrous e-mail and long detailed plans. I had everything set up. Just needed the players (both foreigner and Korean) KeSPA stopped responding to e-mail. Their last e-mail to me was telling me it was undergoing approval and I should hear a response shortly. It never came, or its been since may and I've gotten nothing. I've sent many e-mail to them and nothing back.
KeSPA ignores the foreigner scene. Even Sean Oh (CJ marketing manager) sent them a e-mail asking them to speed up the process. Nothing occured.
Its quite sad to see really. If KeSPA would take a little notice in the foreigner scene. It would be easier for someone like Koll to go to courage and play. Travelling to Korea for possibly 1 BO3 is rather silly. and if he didn't either won courage or go really far. Spending all that money to go to courage would be a huge waste.
Allowing some sort of online Foreigner vs Korean showmatches and such would be a very good way of testing the mettle of the foreigners best.
On September 29 2011 10:36 Krogan wrote: So if Kespa owns all teams how does player trading work? It seems to me that Kespa is unlikely to get into a biding war agaisn't themselves for players, how will this effect player salaries?
This new management thing only applies to any new teams formed, that's if it's applied at all. Regardless, none of the existing teams will be affected.
Alright I missed that, so you are saying 3 teams will be managed by the league (Kespa) and 5 teams by themselves? Hm I am sorry but if anything that sounds even more dodgy.
To be honest this sounds a lot like putting a band aid on someone that just had their arm ripped off.
7 teams are managed the way they've always been managed- KT, SKT, Stars, CJ, ACE, Khan, STX.
As for the new teams, this whole "kespa management" paragraph was written by the plu translator to try to explain what he thinks will happen. I don't remember the Kespa President actually saying this in his interview. It might happen or it might not. Just wait and see.
I did see your last comment before edit. I don't want to stry too off topic. But the goal was for a KeSPA sactioned event. which would be like any other event.
On September 29 2011 10:03 Caladbolg wrote: Or it can end up like the Counter-Strike scene where none of the games get enough attention to grow and evolve and slowly choke eachother to death. I fear that this may be the case. Esport in Korea may benefit from a flourishing BW scene in the long run, but not necessarily SC2.
That's a rather gloomy way to look at it but just as realistic as these 'this is grrreat for sc2!'-post.
The 1.6 counter-strike scene is still really active. I don't think that it can really be compared to brood war at all though since counter strike is a game that is played globally and not just in Korea so it would make sense that the scene is divided up more. Also, player transfers would have more impact in counter strike since they play 5v5.
Hmmm I'm not sure how I feel about this, it sounds like the villian becoming the hero but too much involvement from KeSPA could mess things up. I doubt that they will have involvement in who each of the teams send out in proleague, I think that would be still up to the coach/team.
Anyway, this is much better than those teams and their players going to waste and it would have been very sad if many of them were forced to retire. What does it mean when it says "The rest of the players will be FA"?
On September 28 2011 04:31 Jonvvv wrote: Good news everyone!
And yes, I read this in his voice as you were probably hoping, damn you!
On September 29 2011 13:07 Mr.Brightside wrote: Hmmm I'm not sure how I feel about this, it sounds like the villian becoming the hero but too much involvement from KeSPA could mess things up. I doubt that they will have involvement in who each of the teams send out in proleague, I think that would be still up to the coach/team.
Anyway, this is much better than those teams and their players going to waste and it would have been very sad if many of them were forced to retire. What does it mean when it says "The rest of the players will be FA"?
Free Agent, i think. Means that they can be picked up by any team (both old and new).
Not sure about how I feel about the specific details, but that they're really committing to keeping BW alive is the important thing, and so it lives on =D
It seems like, eventually, the whole BW scene will end up being propped up on the back of KeSPA. Maybe KeSPA is taking on too many responsibilities at once?
On September 29 2011 16:44 jsemmens wrote: It seems like, eventually, the whole BW scene will end up being propped up on the back of KeSPA. Maybe KeSPA is taking on too many responsibilities at once?
er... what other responsibilities does KeSPA have, exactly?
On September 29 2011 16:44 jsemmens wrote: It seems like, eventually, the whole BW scene will end up being propped up on the back of KeSPA. Maybe KeSPA is taking on too many responsibilities at once?
er... what other responsibilities does KeSPA have, exactly?
Picking Sc2 players for some random tournament lol.
How I imagined the news: Stork is playing cellphone games, Jangbi is playing with his trophy, January fending off all the "call me" e-mails she is getting. They hear the news, and now know that JaedongKHAN won't happen. Stork's previously cheerful visage becomes dark and hallowed as he comes to the realization that he has to start practicing more than his 5-minutes a day. He starts looking for his glasses.
(My way of saying I hope Stork get back to rolling people next season )
On September 29 2011 16:44 jsemmens wrote: It seems like, eventually, the whole BW scene will end up being propped up on the back of KeSPA. Maybe KeSPA is taking on too many responsibilities at once?
er... what other responsibilities does KeSPA have, exactly?
Picking Sc2 players for some random tournament lol.
Oh, yeah. They aren't doing a very good job of that, this probably won't help matters any...
On September 29 2011 16:51 LuckyMacro wrote: How I imagined the news: Stork is playing cellphone games, Jangbi is playing with his trophy, January fending off all the "call me" e-mails she is getting. They hear the news, and now know that JaedongKHAN won't happen. Stork's previously cheerful visage becomes dark and hallowed as he comes to the realization that he has to start practicing more than his 5-minutes a day. He starts looking for his glasses.
(My way of saying I hope Stork get back to rolling people next season )
On September 28 2011 16:35 ICanFlyLow wrote: I wish they would atleast have 1 foreign team or a few foreign players onboard
Like who? Are there any foreign players who can realistically compete in Korea, let alone a whole team?
Sziky and Kolll. If LRM) was in Korea, and training in Korea, with a couple additions of the strongest player from the following best 2 foreign teams, then yes.
I remember your words about you guys (I don't remember if it was LRM or another clan with you being the leader) as a clan tried out in a korean clanleague and got poor results. But obviously none of you guys trained in Korea back then.
But yes, there are lotsnlots of non-korean players (or NON-KOREAN foreigners as NeverExpo says) out there who can do pretty well if they train in Korea and it's not limited to Kolll and Sziky (even I would be able to break into yellow ranks if I trained in Korea).
On the topic, I wish PL would have more than 8 teams (hell, more than 50 would also do for me, div 2, div 3 or even div 4 with promotion and relegation). But still good news. Time for the big boys to step up.
The fact that there are still plenty of corporations interested in sponsorship has to be a good thing, and I'd say 8 teams is probably a bit more sustainable in today's economic situation. It should also lead to 8 strong teams.
Seeing who Kespa sends where in October should be interesting.
I am really optimistic with the situation at hand , 8 teams equals to much more quality players going to be dispersed into teach team especially those remainder of those who didn't make it into the 3 combined team under kespa , In which if the coach play their cards right they can bolster their team with stronger players . It's going to be interesting let's wait and see...
On September 29 2011 13:07 Mr.Brightside wrote: Hmmm I'm not sure how I feel about this, it sounds like the villian becoming the hero but too much involvement from KeSPA could mess things up. I doubt that they will have involvement in who each of the teams send out in proleague, I think that would be still up to the coach/team.
Anyway, this is much better than those teams and their players going to waste and it would have been very sad if many of them were forced to retire. What does it mean when it says "The rest of the players will be FA"?
Free Agent, i think. Means that they can be picked up by any team (both old and new).
Hahaha it was so obvious, I wrote that at like 7am so perhaps not so alert to what it might be. Thanks
And the problem with less teams is the fact that less people will get drafted and people will think that their chances of getting drafted is getting lower so less people will go for the rookie league.
I still wish to have 12 team proleague T_T. Or possibly more teams.
KeSPA news.... I'd probably still care about BW if KeSPA wasn't retarded. Even if they do something right, they'll still do 10 things wrong. Hopefully the gods of BW benefit though. Give JD a home and a salary!! =P
On September 29 2011 20:46 Neoattitude wrote: like everyone else...
kespa managing all teams?? how?... or whaat?
KESPA IS NOT MANAGING ALL THE TEAMS ONLY THE NEW TEAM.
No... KeSPA is managing ALL teams using their NEW MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. All teams will still be sponsored by their companies, however will be managed by KeSPA. Owners will still have control over the teams they own, and teams will be able to make their own decisions, however KeSPA will have the final say in all management issues. As far as I can read.
I don't really understand the hysteria about kespas decision to assume a more active role in team management. When I initially read the announcement I assumed it meant that they sought first to construct a solid financial oversight of teams so that the business side of the sport can be done with greater transparency, and second to ensure that should teams lose their sponsors in the future, that they would not have to endure the state of limbo that oz, fox and mbc hero are going through now. In those situations, kespa would be there to ensure that teams have the necessary parachutes to keep practicing and playing while kespa helps them find new sponsors.
Common sense approach imo following the corruption scandal and the disbanding of the three teams now, imo. I don't see how, given the strong leadership kespa are now showing, anyone can accuse them of not acting with the best interests of the sport in mind.
Don't post in the thread to claim that kespa is the evil empire based on you reading the translated musing of a random Chinese blogger.
Then why doesn't Kespa hire a community manager that could directly send the correct message on the biggest SC forums to date? If they care about their image they should do something about it..not rage like kids and expect the internet to bend to their will. That will never happen.
Promote/hold/defend your team....don't expect others to do it for u. If u let the internet decide about a random news u will always get the same result. 90% of internet works around gossip...other 10% p0r##
On September 30 2011 00:12 SkelA wrote: Why are ppl freaking out because Kespa is gonna take total control of the teams ???
Kespa has always managed the teams because Kespa = Sponsors lol.
Pretty much. I assume nothing will change for the 7 existing teams, and we'll have to see what happens for the new teams. Maybe they're doing this because none of the companies interested in sponsoring teams want to pay the entire cost of sponsoring, and KeSPA will combine their money and distribute it amongst the new teams?
I just don't see KeSPA as a group being more involved than that. I'm sure they'll hire coaches for the new teams, who will run them just as the existing teams are run. The only difference will be in player transfer, which doesn't happen very often anyway.
Don't post in the thread to claim that kespa is the evil empire based on you reading the translated musing of a random Chinese blogger.
Then why doesn't Kespa hire a community manager that could directly send the correct message on the biggest SC forums to date? If they care about their image they should do something about it..not rage like kids and expect the internet to bend to their will. That will never happen.
Promote/hold/defend your team....don't expect others to do it for u. If u let the internet decide about a random news u will always get the same result. 90% of internet works around gossip...other 10% p0r##
What we really should be asking is: Why is the number one BW site in the world has it's BW section kept alive by random poster translating a translation. Chinese stuff might not always be accurate, but it's all we have here, and the Chinese sure love BW more than TL atm.
I just hope TL is betting on the right horse here.
Don't post in the thread to claim that kespa is the evil empire based on you reading the translated musing of a random Chinese blogger.
Then why doesn't Kespa hire a community manager that could directly send the correct message on the biggest SC forums to date? If they care about their image they should do something about it..not rage like kids and expect the internet to bend to their will. That will never happen.
Promote/hold/defend your team....don't expect others to do it for u. If u let the internet decide about a random news u will always get the same result. 90% of internet works around gossip...other 10% p0r##
What we really should be asking is: Why is the number one BW site in the world has it's BW section kept alive by random poster translating a translation. Chinese stuff might not always be accurate, but it's all we have here, and the Chinese sure love BW more than TL atm.
I just hope TL is betting on the right horse here.
There are 2 major coporations betting for the sponsorship of the newly combined 'Dream Team'. No news if there will be a new Team 2.
According to the person who released this news, the new 'Dream Team' will have a weak P line up, but they have JD/killer/roro for zerg, By.baby Sea Mind for T, this should compensate the lack of good P. This team is going to a strong contender to titles next season.
On September 30 2011 02:26 forumtext wrote: update/rumor from the Chinese sites:
Start of tran:
There are 2 major coporations betting for the sponsorship of the newly combined 'Dream Team'. No news if there will be a new Team 2.
According to the person who released this news, the new 'Dream Team' will have a weak P line up, but they have JD/killer/roro for zerg, By.baby Sea Mind for T, this should compensate the lack of good P. This team is going to a strong contender to titles next season.
end of tran:
? I thought it supposed to be combination of three team , weird what happens to mbc than ..
On September 30 2011 02:26 forumtext wrote: update/rumor from the Chinese sites:
Start of tran:
There are 2 major coporations betting for the sponsorship of the newly combined 'Dream Team'. No news if there will be a new Team 2.
According to the person who released this news, the new 'Dream Team' will have a weak P line up, but they have JD/killer/roro for zerg, By.baby Sea Mind for T, this should compensate the lack of good P. This team is going to a strong contender to titles next season.
On September 30 2011 02:26 forumtext wrote: update/rumor from the Chinese sites:
Start of tran:
There are 2 major coporations betting for the sponsorship of the newly combined 'Dream Team'. No news if there will be a new Team 2.
According to the person who released this news, the new 'Dream Team' will have a weak P line up, but they have JD/killer/roro for zerg, By.baby Sea Mind for T, this should compensate the lack of good P. This team is going to a strong contender to titles next season.
end of tran:
? I thought it supposed to be combination of three team , weird what happens to mbc than ..
Wasn't MBC confirmed to keep it's channel running until march next year? I read it somewhere.
On September 30 2011 02:26 forumtext wrote: update/rumor from the Chinese sites:
Start of tran:
There are 2 major coporations betting for the sponsorship of the newly combined 'Dream Team'. No news if there will be a new Team 2.
According to the person who released this news, the new 'Dream Team' will have a weak P line up, but they have JD/killer/roro for zerg, By.baby Sea Mind for T, this should compensate the lack of good P. This team is going to a strong contender to titles next season.
end of tran:
? I thought it supposed to be combination of three team , weird what happens to mbc than ..
On September 30 2011 02:26 forumtext wrote: update/rumor from the Chinese sites:
Start of tran:
There are 2 major coporations betting for the sponsorship of the newly combined 'Dream Team'. No news if there will be a new Team 2.
According to the person who released this news, the new 'Dream Team' will have a weak P line up, but they have JD/killer/roro for zerg, By.baby Sea Mind for T, this should compensate the lack of good P. This team is going to a strong contender to titles next season.
On September 30 2011 02:26 forumtext wrote: update/rumor from the Chinese sites:
Start of tran:
There are 2 major coporations betting for the sponsorship of the newly combined 'Dream Team'. No news if there will be a new Team 2.
According to the person who released this news, the new 'Dream Team' will have a weak P line up, but they have JD/killer/roro for zerg, By.baby Sea Mind for T, this should compensate the lack of good P. This team is going to a strong contender to titles next season.
end of tran:
? I thought it supposed to be combination of three team , weird what happens to mbc than ..
On September 30 2011 02:26 forumtext wrote: update/rumor from the Chinese sites:
Start of tran:
There are 2 major coporations betting for the sponsorship of the newly combined 'Dream Team'. No news if there will be a new Team 2.
According to the person who released this news, the new 'Dream Team' will have a weak P line up, but they have JD/killer/roro for zerg, By.baby Sea Mind for T, this should compensate the lack of good P. This team is going to a strong contender to titles next season.
end of tran:
? I thought it supposed to be combination of three team , weird what happens to mbc than ..
It is, that's why Sea is in there.
What happened to tyson,jaehoon than ?
You're taking it too literal. It's basically a rumor saying that the new team would be pretty strong with these players, etc. They're not mentioned because it doesn't really add much to speculating how strong the team will be. Instead, they're basically put into the weak protoss category.
Edit: Actually, I just read the article. Jaehoon is mentioned.
Edit #2: Don't think too much about it. It's basically like saying one of us went kekekeke, if the dream team is formed, we would have JD, Baby, Sea, along with Mind, Roro, Shine, Hiya, Killer, and Jaehoon. It's also compared to the 2005 KT team.
Personally, I don't really think the team is that strong, heh. If teams like SKT and CJ were to combine, then that would be imba.
On September 30 2011 02:26 forumtext wrote: update/rumor from the Chinese sites:
Start of tran:
There are 2 major coporations betting for the sponsorship of the newly combined 'Dream Team'. No news if there will be a new Team 2.
According to the person who released this news, the new 'Dream Team' will have a weak P line up, but they have JD/killer/roro for zerg, By.baby Sea Mind for T, this should compensate the lack of good P. This team is going to a strong contender to titles next season.
On September 30 2011 02:26 forumtext wrote: update/rumor from the Chinese sites:
Start of tran:
There are 2 major coporations betting for the sponsorship of the newly combined 'Dream Team'. No news if there will be a new Team 2.
According to the person who released this news, the new 'Dream Team' will have a weak P line up, but they have JD/killer/roro for zerg, By.baby Sea Mind for T, this should compensate the lack of good P. This team is going to a strong contender to titles next season.
On September 30 2011 02:26 forumtext wrote: update/rumor from the Chinese sites:
Start of tran:
There are 2 major coporations betting for the sponsorship of the newly combined 'Dream Team'. No news if there will be a new Team 2.
According to the person who released this news, the new 'Dream Team' will have a weak P line up, but they have JD/killer/roro for zerg, By.baby Sea Mind for T, this should compensate the lack of good P. This team is going to a strong contender to titles next season.
end of tran:
? I thought it supposed to be combination of three team , weird what happens to mbc than ..
It is, that's why Sea is in there.
What happened to tyson,jaehoon than ?
Jaehoon is mentioned too. Basically they just named the main players from each team, it's not the whole line-up.
Osen also says coaching staff will probably comprise staff from the 3 teams and possibly former e-sports coaches.
On September 30 2011 02:26 forumtext wrote: update/rumor from the Chinese sites:
Start of tran:
There are 2 major coporations betting for the sponsorship of the newly combined 'Dream Team'. No news if there will be a new Team 2.
According to the person who released this news, the new 'Dream Team' will have a weak P line up, but they have JD/killer/roro for zerg, By.baby Sea Mind for T, this should compensate the lack of good P. This team is going to a strong contender to titles next season.
On September 30 2011 02:26 forumtext wrote: update/rumor from the Chinese sites:
Start of tran:
There are 2 major coporations betting for the sponsorship of the newly combined 'Dream Team'. No news if there will be a new Team 2.
According to the person who released this news, the new 'Dream Team' will have a weak P line up, but they have JD/killer/roro for zerg, By.baby Sea Mind for T, this should compensate the lack of good P. This team is going to a strong contender to titles next season.
Weak P lineup? Does this speculation mean that Jaehoon won't be joining the rest, or does it mean that the speculation assumes that he is still the PvX Enigma?
On September 30 2011 02:26 forumtext wrote: update/rumor from the Chinese sites:
Start of tran:
There are 2 major coporations betting for the sponsorship of the newly combined 'Dream Team'. No news if there will be a new Team 2.
According to the person who released this news, the new 'Dream Team' will have a weak P line up, but they have JD/killer/roro for zerg, By.baby Sea Mind for T, this should compensate the lack of good P. This team is going to a strong contender to titles next season.
end of tran:
Dang that line up almost sounds imba.
I hope Sea brings Hyun with him.
Yeah. Sea will be lonely if there's no Hyun or Saint.
On September 30 2011 03:17 eviltomahawk wrote: Weak P lineup? Does this speculation mean that Jaehoon won't be joining the rest, or does it mean that the speculation assumes that he is still the PvX Enigma?
Neither. Out of the 3 teams, there are only 2 protosses with more than 50% winrate, compared to the zergs and terrans, that's a weak line-up.
On September 30 2011 03:17 eviltomahawk wrote: Weak P lineup? Does this speculation mean that Jaehoon won't be joining the rest, or does it mean that the speculation assumes that he is still the PvX Enigma?
Neither. Out of the 3 teams, there are only 2 protosses with more than 50% winrate, compared to the zergs and terrans, that's a weak line-up.
Oh, ok. I was hoping that Jaehoon is still with his buddy Sea and some of the rest of the MBC Heroes team. Considering that the dream team's Zerg and Terran lineup is indeed a dream team, I'm not surprised that even an average Protoss lineup would look mediocre in comparison.
On September 30 2011 03:17 eviltomahawk wrote: Weak P lineup? Does this speculation mean that Jaehoon won't be joining the rest, or does it mean that the speculation assumes that he is still the PvX Enigma?
Neither. Out of the 3 teams, there are only 2 protosses with more than 50% winrate, compared to the zergs and terrans, that's a weak line-up.
Oh, ok. I was hoping that Jaehoon is still with his buddy Sea and some of the rest of the MBC Heroes team. Considering that the dream team's Zerg and Terran lineup is indeed a dream team, I'm not surprised that even an average Protoss lineup would look mediocre in comparison.
Yup. But if they only take Jaehoon and not Tyson as well, then it will really be a weak and inexperienced P line-up. I hope Kespa can find a good balance between the players and races. 2 new teams would be good. There's enough talent to form 2 very strong teams.
On September 30 2011 06:46 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Rumors that LG wants to sponsor the new team.
Omg, if that rumor is true, this might be one of the biggest sponsor team we ever seen yet! Everyone knows who LG is, especially outside of Korea and that'll make a good natural appeal in the big stages between corporation competitions which also gives rivalries of which LG is rival to (Samsung).
And fun fact, I have 2 uncles in Korea whom one works for Samsung, and another works for LG. Hahahaha, this will be fun.
Will be interesting to see how things shake out in terms of players being assigned to the teams...see just how competitive the newer teams can be with existing ones.
There are certainly a few 'wait and see' type of situations, but anything that helps extend bw is a good thing.
Not sure if want, but I'm sure as hell hoping all this turns out just fine and we get to enjoy BW for years to come. Also pretty syked about the new teams, so many great lineup possibilities.
LG.Jaedong,LG.Mind,LG.RollRo,LG.BaxterNoKiller,LG JAehoon the potential,LG.BRIDGE, LG.Baby,
I think if i was kt seeing this kind of line up being thrown upon in the proleague matches , I won't be smilling at all . Seriously these is one team you don't want to mess with no loopholes,nobody to blame . Much more stronger team ,You think cj is stack ? wait till you see these team makes it first debut .
It's like the KTF Magic Ns back than we had the most powerful players, Sync,Nada, Reach, Yellow and Nalra . We were supposed to win games but our management screw the ktf players because they won't let them practice with each other /
On September 30 2011 12:05 Dakota69 wrote: My inferior knowledge of Brood War prevents me from fully comprehending what happened here, but it sounds like good news....Cheers BW fans.
On September 29 2011 22:45 Shinta) wrote: KeSPA news.... I'd probably still care about BW if KeSPA wasn't retarded. Even if they do something right, they'll still do 10 things wrong. Hopefully the gods of BW benefit though. Give JD a home and a salary!! =P
On September 29 2011 20:46 Neoattitude wrote: like everyone else...
kespa managing all teams?? how?... or whaat?
KESPA IS NOT MANAGING ALL THE TEAMS ONLY THE NEW TEAM.
No... KeSPA is managing ALL teams using their NEW MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. All teams will still be sponsored by their companies, however will be managed by KeSPA. Owners will still have control over the teams they own, and teams will be able to make their own decisions, however KeSPA will have the final say in all management issues. As far as I can read.
User was warned for this post
lol, I get warned for saying absolutely nothing out of line.... I reread the post and once again saw that my post was valid. If you want to point out something that I missed due to a grammatical error in the OP or something else that could possibly make me wrong, then go ahead, I'll gladly receive the education, don't "WARN" me for doing nothing but making a normal post that doesn't cross any borders.
And before you think about banning me for making this responsive post, remember that I'm only looking for the "what I did wrong". You ban me for that and you're way out of line... (talking to mods)
On September 29 2011 22:45 Shinta) wrote: KeSPA news.... I'd probably still care about BW if KeSPA wasn't retarded. Even if they do something right, they'll still do 10 things wrong. Hopefully the gods of BW benefit though. Give JD a home and a salary!! =P
On September 29 2011 20:57 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On September 29 2011 20:46 Neoattitude wrote: like everyone else...
kespa managing all teams?? how?... or whaat?
KESPA IS NOT MANAGING ALL THE TEAMS ONLY THE NEW TEAM.
No... KeSPA is managing ALL teams using their NEW MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. All teams will still be sponsored by their companies, however will be managed by KeSPA. Owners will still have control over the teams they own, and teams will be able to make their own decisions, however KeSPA will have the final say in all management issues. As far as I can read.
User was warned for this post
lol, I get warned for saying absolutely nothing out of line.... I reread the post and once again saw that my post was valid. If you want to point out something that I missed due to a grammatical error in the OP or something else that could possibly make me wrong, then go ahead, I'll gladly receive the education, don't "WARN" me for doing nothing but making a normal post that doesn't cross any borders.
And before you think about banning me for making this responsive post, remember that I'm only looking for the "what I did wrong". You ban me for that and you're way out of line... (talking to mods)
Don't post in the thread to claim that kespa is the evil empire based on you reading the translated musing of a random Chinese blogger.
this prolly has to do something with it :>
anyway, can't wait for next season of PL, and osl prelims as well
On September 29 2011 22:45 Shinta) wrote: KeSPA news.... I'd probably still care about BW if KeSPA wasn't retarded. Even if they do something right, they'll still do 10 things wrong. Hopefully the gods of BW benefit though. Give JD a home and a salary!! =P
On September 29 2011 20:57 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On September 29 2011 20:46 Neoattitude wrote: like everyone else...
kespa managing all teams?? how?... or whaat?
KESPA IS NOT MANAGING ALL THE TEAMS ONLY THE NEW TEAM.
No... KeSPA is managing ALL teams using their NEW MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. All teams will still be sponsored by their companies, however will be managed by KeSPA. Owners will still have control over the teams they own, and teams will be able to make their own decisions, however KeSPA will have the final say in all management issues. As far as I can read.
User was warned for this post
lol, I get warned for saying absolutely nothing out of line.... I reread the post and once again saw that my post was valid. If you want to point out something that I missed due to a grammatical error in the OP or something else that could possibly make me wrong, then go ahead, I'll gladly receive the education, don't "WARN" me for doing nothing but making a normal post that doesn't cross any borders.
And before you think about banning me for making this responsive post, remember that I'm only looking for the "what I did wrong". You ban me for that and you're way out of line... (talking to mods)
First part random Kespa trashing second part wild speculation and spreading of misinformation. Annoyed with the warn? Be glad you wern't temped.
On September 29 2011 22:45 Shinta) wrote: KeSPA news.... I'd probably still care about BW if KeSPA wasn't retarded. Even if they do something right, they'll still do 10 things wrong. Hopefully the gods of BW benefit though. Give JD a home and a salary!! =P
On September 29 2011 20:57 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On September 29 2011 20:46 Neoattitude wrote: like everyone else...
kespa managing all teams?? how?... or whaat?
KESPA IS NOT MANAGING ALL THE TEAMS ONLY THE NEW TEAM.
No... KeSPA is managing ALL teams using their NEW MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. All teams will still be sponsored by their companies, however will be managed by KeSPA. Owners will still have control over the teams they own, and teams will be able to make their own decisions, however KeSPA will have the final say in all management issues. As far as I can read.
User was warned for this post
lol, I get warned for saying absolutely nothing out of line.... I reread the post and once again saw that my post was valid. If you want to point out something that I missed due to a grammatical error in the OP or something else that could possibly make me wrong, then go ahead, I'll gladly receive the education, don't "WARN" me for doing nothing but making a normal post that doesn't cross any borders.
And before you think about banning me for making this responsive post, remember that I'm only looking for the "what I did wrong". You ban me for that and you're way out of line... (talking to mods)
Don't call the people who created and are maintaining e-sport "retards", also don't try to post incorrect information like "Even if they do something right, they'll still do 10 things wrong"
@Shader No... Half of the first part is me trash talking KeSPA. I wasn't warned for that though because me talking about KeSPA was not restricted as part of the OP notes. The second half of the first part was me providing regular opinion as a fan of JD (JaeDong since it seems you didn't catch that). And I wasn't 'spreading misinformation' I was explaining my interpretation of the OP, and clearly stated that fact by saying "as far as I can read". It's not that I'm annoyed by being warned, in fact I should 'probably be banned' for making these posts since they are not productive. I'm rebelling because I was warned for reasons other than those stated. The reasons I was warned was not because I did something wrong, but because the Mod didn't like what I said, and a mod shouldn't be able to have the power to warn or temp ban someone because of their own personal opinions. @kamikami You can't tell me what I can and can not post in a forum..... A forum, by definition and by history of the development of the word, is a place where anyone and everyone can gather can express ideas and opinions. You don't have the right to tell me that I can't or shouldn't say something, and as long as I follow the rules, neither do the mods. If mods abuse their power then upper management should punish the mods accordingly.
I asked for positive feedback regarding my question, and I expected it from the mods. You randoms don't have any reason to respond to my post, and you only assist in disrupting the forum by doing so.
On September 30 2011 18:47 Shinta) wrote: @Shader No... Half of the first part is me trash talking KeSPA. I wasn't warned for that though because me talking about KeSPA was not restricted as part of the OP notes. The second half of the first part was me providing regular opinion as a fan of JD (JaeDong since it seems you didn't catch that). And I wasn't 'spreading misinformation' I was explaining my interpretation of the OP, and clearly stated that fact by saying "as far as I can read". It's not that I'm annoyed by being warned, in fact I should 'probably be banned' for making these posts since they are not productive. I'm rebelling because I was warned for reasons other than those stated. The reasons I was warned was not because I did something wrong, but because the Mod didn't like what I said, and a mod shouldn't be able to have the power to warn or temp ban someone because of their own personal opinions. @kamikami You can't tell me what I can and can not post in a forum..... A forum, by definition and by history of the development of the word, is a place where anyone and everyone can gather can express ideas and opinions. You don't have the right to tell me that I can't or shouldn't say something, and as long as I follow the rules, neither do the mods. If mods abuse their power then upper management should punish the mods accordingly.
I asked for positive feedback regarding my question, and I expected it from the mods. You randoms don't have any reason to respond to my post, and you only assist in disrupting the forum by doing so.
Are you being purposely obtuse? You derailed the thread by bitching about a warn. It may or may not have correct of me to respond but YOU are the one derailing the thread.
On September 30 2011 18:47 Shinta) wrote: @Shader No... Half of the first part is me trash talking KeSPA. I wasn't warned for that though because me talking about KeSPA was not restricted as part of the OP notes. The second half of the first part was me providing regular opinion as a fan of JD (JaeDong since it seems you didn't catch that). And I wasn't 'spreading misinformation' I was explaining my interpretation of the OP, and clearly stated that fact by saying "as far as I can read". It's not that I'm annoyed by being warned, in fact I should 'probably be banned' for making these posts since they are not productive. I'm rebelling because I was warned for reasons other than those stated. The reasons I was warned was not because I did something wrong, but because the Mod didn't like what I said, and a mod shouldn't be able to have the power to warn or temp ban someone because of their own personal opinions. @kamikami You can't tell me what I can and can not post in a forum..... A forum, by definition and by history of the development of the word, is a place where anyone and everyone can gather can express ideas and opinions. You don't have the right to tell me that I can't or shouldn't say something, and as long as I follow the rules, neither do the mods. If mods abuse their power then upper management should punish the mods accordingly.
I asked for positive feedback regarding my question, and I expected it from the mods. You randoms don't have any reason to respond to my post, and you only assist in disrupting the forum by doing so.
Are you being purposely obtuse? You derailed the thread by bitching about a warn. It may or may not have correct of me to respond but YOU are the one derailing the thread.
He should have pm the mod about his dissatisfaction of the warn and he is actually basing his arguments from a chinese blog writer . It could be false it could be true but we shouln't come to a conclusion so fast until official statements are released .
On September 30 2011 18:47 Shinta) wrote: @Shader No... Half of the first part is me trash talking KeSPA. I wasn't warned for that though because me talking about KeSPA was not restricted as part of the OP notes. The second half of the first part was me providing regular opinion as a fan of JD (JaeDong since it seems you didn't catch that). And I wasn't 'spreading misinformation' I was explaining my interpretation of the OP, and clearly stated that fact by saying "as far as I can read". It's not that I'm annoyed by being warned, in fact I should 'probably be banned' for making these posts since they are not productive. I'm rebelling because I was warned for reasons other than those stated. The reasons I was warned was not because I did something wrong, but because the Mod didn't like what I said, and a mod shouldn't be able to have the power to warn or temp ban someone because of their own personal opinions. @kamikami You can't tell me what I can and can not post in a forum..... A forum, by definition and by history of the development of the word, is a place where anyone and everyone can gather can express ideas and opinions. You don't have the right to tell me that I can't or shouldn't say something, and as long as I follow the rules, neither do the mods. If mods abuse their power then upper management should punish the mods accordingly.
I asked for positive feedback regarding my question, and I expected it from the mods. You randoms don't have any reason to respond to my post, and you only assist in disrupting the forum by doing so.
Are you being purposely obtuse? You derailed the thread by bitching about a warn. It may or may not have correct of me to respond but YOU are the one derailing the thread.
LG team would be great!
Btw, Shader I'm sorry to say this. Although you are semi veteran here, I think Shanti is right and not you. He was asking about the warning to the person who warned, MODS, and not you are any other random user. He just posted it here in this thread because this is where it happened, He could have done better by PMing a mod or posting it in the website feedback area, but as it is, he made the right decision to write it here respectfully. That being said, YOU responding to it and even expanding the argument further, unnecessarily, only derails this thread, which is good news! I know I'm also guilty of lengthening it, but let this be the last of it. Just apologize to him and let it go.
On September 30 2011 18:47 Shinta) wrote: @Shader No... Half of the first part is me trash talking KeSPA. I wasn't warned for that though because me talking about KeSPA was not restricted as part of the OP notes. The second half of the first part was me providing regular opinion as a fan of JD (JaeDong since it seems you didn't catch that). And I wasn't 'spreading misinformation' I was explaining my interpretation of the OP, and clearly stated that fact by saying "as far as I can read". It's not that I'm annoyed by being warned, in fact I should 'probably be banned' for making these posts since they are not productive. I'm rebelling because I was warned for reasons other than those stated. The reasons I was warned was not because I did something wrong, but because the Mod didn't like what I said, and a mod shouldn't be able to have the power to warn or temp ban someone because of their own personal opinions. @kamikami You can't tell me what I can and can not post in a forum..... A forum, by definition and by history of the development of the word, is a place where anyone and everyone can gather can express ideas and opinions. You don't have the right to tell me that I can't or shouldn't say something, and as long as I follow the rules, neither do the mods. If mods abuse their power then upper management should punish the mods accordingly.
I asked for positive feedback regarding my question, and I expected it from the mods. You randoms don't have any reason to respond to my post, and you only assist in disrupting the forum by doing so.
Are you being purposely obtuse? You derailed the thread by bitching about a warn. It may or may not have correct of me to respond but YOU are the one derailing the thread.
LG team would be great!
Btw, Shader I'm sorry to say this. Although you are semi veteran here, I think Shanti is right and not you. He was asking about the warning to the person who warned, MODS, and not you are any other random user. He just posted it here in this thread because this is where it happened, He could have done better by PMing a mod or posting it in the website feedback area, but as it is, he made the right decision to write it here respectfully. That being said, YOU responding to it and even expanding the argument further, unnecessarily, only derails this thread, which is good news! I know I'm also guilty of lengthening it, but let this be the last of it. Just apologize to him and let it go.
Back on topic, can't wait for the new PL season.
Expanding what arguments are you talking about , he is basing on a personal chinese point of view of the situation at hand . We can talk about these once we have official news these october .
On September 30 2011 18:47 Shinta) wrote: @kamikami You can't tell me what I can and can not post in a forum..... A forum, by definition and by history of the development of the word, is a place where anyone and everyone can gather can express ideas and opinions. You don't have the right to tell me that I can't or shouldn't say something, and as long as I follow the rules, neither do the mods. If mods abuse their power then upper management should punish the mods accordingly.
Oh god so you follow the rules by calling people "retarded" and post wrong information (post your our speculation as if it's confirmed news) in the forum. If you want to follow the rules, read the damn rules.
On September 30 2011 18:47 Shinta) wrote: @Shader No... Half of the first part is me trash talking KeSPA. I wasn't warned for that though because me talking about KeSPA was not restricted as part of the OP notes. The second half of the first part was me providing regular opinion as a fan of JD (JaeDong since it seems you didn't catch that). And I wasn't 'spreading misinformation' I was explaining my interpretation of the OP, and clearly stated that fact by saying "as far as I can read". It's not that I'm annoyed by being warned, in fact I should 'probably be banned' for making these posts since they are not productive. I'm rebelling because I was warned for reasons other than those stated. The reasons I was warned was not because I did something wrong, but because the Mod didn't like what I said, and a mod shouldn't be able to have the power to warn or temp ban someone because of their own personal opinions. @kamikami You can't tell me what I can and can not post in a forum..... A forum, by definition and by history of the development of the word, is a place where anyone and everyone can gather can express ideas and opinions. You don't have the right to tell me that I can't or shouldn't say something, and as long as I follow the rules, neither do the mods. If mods abuse their power then upper management should punish the mods accordingly.
I asked for positive feedback regarding my question, and I expected it from the mods. You randoms don't have any reason to respond to my post, and you only assist in disrupting the forum by doing so.
Are you being purposely obtuse? You derailed the thread by bitching about a warn. It may or may not have correct of me to respond but YOU are the one derailing the thread.
LG team would be great!
Btw, Shader I'm sorry to say this. Although you are semi veteran here, I think Shanti is right and not you. He was asking about the warning to the person who warned, MODS, and not you are any other random user. He just posted it here in this thread because this is where it happened, He could have done better by PMing a mod or posting it in the website feedback area, but as it is, he made the right decision to write it here respectfully. That being said, YOU responding to it and even expanding the argument further, unnecessarily, only derails this thread, which is good news! I know I'm also guilty of lengthening it, but let this be the last of it. Just apologize to him and let it go.
Back on topic, can't wait for the new PL season.
Expanding what arguments are you talking about , he is basing on a personal chinese point of view of the situation at hand . We can talk about these once we have official news these october .
argument about his warning. nothing about the OP. like replying to it so he extends the argument. Im sorry im not very good with my english, so there is confusion sometimes
WTF? there is a conflict between the chinese source and the original Korean article(as explained by Ryo more than once in this thread),according to the original Korean article only the new team(s?) will be managed by KeSPA.
On September 29 2011 10:36 Krogan wrote: So if Kespa owns all teams how does player trading work? It seems to me that Kespa is unlikely to get into a biding war agaisn't themselves for players, how will this effect player salaries?
This new management thing only applies to any new teams formed, that's if it's applied at all. Regardless, none of the existing teams will be affected.
Don't post in the thread to claim that kespa is the evil empire based on you reading the translated musing of a random Chinese blogger.
This suddenly makes sense.
also shinta),if you were warned for something,you probably deserved it.
I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2
On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote: I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2
That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does
On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote: I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2
That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does
Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL)
On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote: I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2
That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does
Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL)
Edit: I don't understand your point.
I guess we can speculate all we want but nobody really knows what is actually meant by "a new management system". So at this point all analogys are false ones.
On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote: I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2
That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does
Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL)
Edit: I don't understand your point.
I guess we can speculate all we want but nobody really knows what is actually meant by "a new management system". So at this point all analogys are false ones.
Not false, but unproven, but no matter what the "management system" is they will have a bias. Now, as far as speculation goes we won't know exactly how it works until they tell us, but I have an inclination that this won't be a great thing. Hopefully it is, but KESPA has mishandled things before.
On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote: I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2
That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does
Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL)
Edit: I don't understand your point.
I guess we can speculate all we want but nobody really knows what is actually meant by "a new management system". So at this point all analogys are false ones.
I am sticking with these argument and just wait and see what's going to happen , Ryo said that in the mid of october we will able to learn more about these new management . To dwell on matters that we don't know may lead to insanity .
On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote: I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2
That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does
Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL)
Edit: I don't understand your point.
I guess we can speculate all we want but nobody really knows what is actually meant by "a new management system". So at this point all analogys are false ones.
Not false, but unproven, but no matter what the "management system" is they will have a bias. Now, as far as speculation goes we won't know exactly how it works until they tell us, but I have an inclination that this won't be a great thing. Hopefully it is, but KESPA has mishandled things before.
Kespa is also all we have. If it weren't for Kespa, we'd be 3 teams down, end of story. Whatever their faults in the past, they're doing their best to help BW right now. We're getting 1, maybe even 2 teams back. What do we have to complain about?
On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote: I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2
That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does
Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL)
Edit: I don't understand your point.
I guess we can speculate all we want but nobody really knows what is actually meant by "a new management system". So at this point all analogys are false ones.
Not false, but unproven, but no matter what the "management system" is they will have a bias. Now, as far as speculation goes we won't know exactly how it works until they tell us, but I have an inclination that this won't be a great thing. Hopefully it is, but KESPA has mishandled things before.
Kespa is also all we have. If it weren't for Kespa, we'd be 3 teams down, end of story. Whatever their faults in the past, they're doing their best to help BW right now. We're getting 1, maybe even 2 teams back. What do we have to complain about?
Take a look at his post history and that can give you a view which side he is really on .
On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote: I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2
That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does
Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL)
Edit: I don't understand your point.
Kespa = the sponsors. The dude in the first post works for SK Telecom. Kespa already owned all of the teams because of this
On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote: I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2
That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does
Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL)
Edit: I don't understand your point.
I guess we can speculate all we want but nobody really knows what is actually meant by "a new management system". So at this point all analogys are false ones.
Not false, but unproven, but no matter what the "management system" is they will have a bias. Now, as far as speculation goes we won't know exactly how it works until they tell us, but I have an inclination that this won't be a great thing. Hopefully it is, but KESPA has mishandled things before.
Kespa is also all we have. If it weren't for Kespa, we'd be 3 teams down, end of story. Whatever their faults in the past, they're doing their best to help BW right now. We're getting 1, maybe even 2 teams back. What do we have to complain about?
Take a look at his post history and that can give you a view which side he is really on .
You claim I'm on a side. I miss too many SC2 matches to count. I don't miss a SINGLE BW match. Watch so many I can't even remember 90% of them. I much prefer to watch two semi-good SCBW pros over most SC2 pros. Why? Because their play is 100x better. If I were on any side it would be the side that kills KESPA and keeps both games going. With that though if SC2's expansion was actually good I wouldn't mind seeing BW pros play it, but I don't think they can make a truly great game anymore, so I will continue watching BW.
On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote: I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2
That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does
Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL)
Edit: I don't understand your point.
I guess we can speculate all we want but nobody really knows what is actually meant by "a new management system". So at this point all analogys are false ones.
Not false, but unproven, but no matter what the "management system" is they will have a bias. Now, as far as speculation goes we won't know exactly how it works until they tell us, but I have an inclination that this won't be a great thing. Hopefully it is, but KESPA has mishandled things before.
Kespa is also all we have. If it weren't for Kespa, we'd be 3 teams down, end of story. Whatever their faults in the past, they're doing their best to help BW right now. We're getting 1, maybe even 2 teams back. What do we have to complain about?
You're assuming that every other party would do worse. I personally don't see why if the 1 or 2 new teams were to come through couldn't manage themselves?
On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote: I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2
That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does
Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL)
Edit: I don't understand your point.
I guess we can speculate all we want but nobody really knows what is actually meant by "a new management system". So at this point all analogys are false ones.
Not false, but unproven, but no matter what the "management system" is they will have a bias. Now, as far as speculation goes we won't know exactly how it works until they tell us, but I have an inclination that this won't be a great thing. Hopefully it is, but KESPA has mishandled things before.
Kespa is also all we have. If it weren't for Kespa, we'd be 3 teams down, end of story. Whatever their faults in the past, they're doing their best to help BW right now. We're getting 1, maybe even 2 teams back. What do we have to complain about?
Take a look at his post history and that can give you a view which side he is really on .
You claim I'm on a side. I miss too many SC2 matches to count. I don't miss a SINGLE BW match. Watch so many I can't even remember 90% of them. I much prefer to watch two semi-good SCBW pros over most SC2 pros. Why? Because their play is 100x better. If I were on any side it would be the side that kills KESPA and keeps both games going. With that though if SC2's expansion was actually good I wouldn't mind seeing BW pros play it, but I don't think they can make a truly great game anymore, so I will continue watching BW.
On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote: I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2
That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does
Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL)
Edit: I don't understand your point.
I guess we can speculate all we want but nobody really knows what is actually meant by "a new management system". So at this point all analogys are false ones.
Not false, but unproven, but no matter what the "management system" is they will have a bias. Now, as far as speculation goes we won't know exactly how it works until they tell us, but I have an inclination that this won't be a great thing. Hopefully it is, but KESPA has mishandled things before.
Kespa is also all we have. If it weren't for Kespa, we'd be 3 teams down, end of story. Whatever their faults in the past, they're doing their best to help BW right now. We're getting 1, maybe even 2 teams back. What do we have to complain about?
You're assuming that every other party would do worse. I personally don't see why if the 1 or 2 new teams were to come through couldn't manage themselves?
I suppose it's all about perspective. KeSPA has bungled things up with leta pp incident and jaedong free agency. Both problems were rectified. KeSPA is not looking to screw the BW scene over they want BW to succeed this could be seen as selfish or self preservationist but i'm seeing a common goal here. That's why i feel i can trust KeSPA to maybe not do the best job but at least do what they believe to be in the scene's best interest.
On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote: I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2
That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does
Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL)
Edit: I don't understand your point.
I guess we can speculate all we want but nobody really knows what is actually meant by "a new management system". So at this point all analogys are false ones.
Not false, but unproven, but no matter what the "management system" is they will have a bias. Now, as far as speculation goes we won't know exactly how it works until they tell us, but I have an inclination that this won't be a great thing. Hopefully it is, but KESPA has mishandled things before.
Kespa is also all we have. If it weren't for Kespa, we'd be 3 teams down, end of story. Whatever their faults in the past, they're doing their best to help BW right now. We're getting 1, maybe even 2 teams back. What do we have to complain about?
Take a look at his post history and that can give you a view which side he is really on .
You claim I'm on a side. I miss too many SC2 matches to count. I don't miss a SINGLE BW match. Watch so many I can't even remember 90% of them. I much prefer to watch two semi-good SCBW pros over most SC2 pros. Why? Because their play is 100x better. If I were on any side it would be the side that kills KESPA and keeps both games going. With that though if SC2's expansion was actually good I wouldn't mind seeing BW pros play it, but I don't think they can make a truly great game anymore, so I will continue watching BW.
On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote: I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2
That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does
Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL)
Edit: I don't understand your point.
I guess we can speculate all we want but nobody really knows what is actually meant by "a new management system". So at this point all analogys are false ones.
Not false, but unproven, but no matter what the "management system" is they will have a bias. Now, as far as speculation goes we won't know exactly how it works until they tell us, but I have an inclination that this won't be a great thing. Hopefully it is, but KESPA has mishandled things before.
Kespa is also all we have. If it weren't for Kespa, we'd be 3 teams down, end of story. Whatever their faults in the past, they're doing their best to help BW right now. We're getting 1, maybe even 2 teams back. What do we have to complain about?
You're assuming that every other party would do worse. I personally don't see why if the 1 or 2 new teams were to come through couldn't manage themselves?
It's not that they can't manage themselves. It's that companies are primarily concerned with making money and not promoting esports (except as a means to gain profit), and have no obligation to keep their team if they feel like they're not making money. After all, sponsoring a team is an investment, not an act of charity. Kespa wants to prevent this entire fiasco from happening again. They don't want a sponsor to one day decide to pull out, and result in their team disbanding completely. This way, even if a sponsor backs out, the team will still exist, while Kespa finds them a new one.
Thank you both for clarifying that up. Very interesting strategy from them. Perhaps putting the sponsors under contract for X years will give teams a heads up to look for a new one if they don't renew the contract by Y months before the contract expires. Seems like a good safe way to keep all teams sponsored and thriving. Thank you guys.
As far as this thread is concerned, and as far as I know, no one knows for sure what this "new management" is or how KESpA will go about the new system. In this light, most of the comments here are not only moot, but downright juvenile, irresponsible, and erroneous. Juvenile because it looks like kids trying to compete who pisses longer without any real substance to the competition. Irresponsible because everyone is arguing based on speculation and personal interpretation, nothing more, while passing it on as actual fact. And erroneous because quite simply, unless there is clear unambiguous news about it, or it came from KESpA itself, therefore it is simply not true, not grounds for any discussion, and should be immediately arrested.
In fact, if TL finds balance whining and balance/game suggestions bannable, this is even more so. Balance whining/theorycraft at least are explicitly in the realm of fiction/suggestion. This one, discussing and prolonging the discussion based on the slightest bit of information, promotes misinformation, and goes at the very heart of BW/ESports, of how it operates on the ground. How could that kind of speculative discussion been allowed to get to 24 pages is beyond me. Those who participate in that ignorance mongering are worthy of a 2-day ban at least. Put this in perspective and you will actually see how erroneous and irresponsible activities like this are detrimental to everyone.
Let us wait for someone with clear, firsthand, impeccable knowledge on this matter to elucidate it first before we try to analyze and discuss it. Otherwise please stop spreading wrong information.
On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote: I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2
That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does
Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL)
Edit: I don't understand your point.
I guess we can speculate all we want but nobody really knows what is actually meant by "a new management system". So at this point all analogys are false ones.
Not false, but unproven, but no matter what the "management system" is they will have a bias. Now, as far as speculation goes we won't know exactly how it works until they tell us, but I have an inclination that this won't be a great thing. Hopefully it is, but KESPA has mishandled things before.
Kespa is also all we have. If it weren't for Kespa, we'd be 3 teams down, end of story. Whatever their faults in the past, they're doing their best to help BW right now. We're getting 1, maybe even 2 teams back. What do we have to complain about?
Take a look at his post history and that can give you a view which side he is really on .
You claim I'm on a side. I miss too many SC2 matches to count. I don't miss a SINGLE BW match. Watch so many I can't even remember 90% of them. I much prefer to watch two semi-good SCBW pros over most SC2 pros. Why? Because their play is 100x better. If I were on any side it would be the side that kills KESPA and keeps both games going. With that though if SC2's expansion was actually good I wouldn't mind seeing BW pros play it, but I don't think they can make a truly great game anymore, so I will continue watching BW.
On October 01 2011 21:34 seraphe wrote:
On October 01 2011 21:11 NoobSkills wrote:
On October 01 2011 21:07 ShadeR wrote:
On October 01 2011 20:44 NoobSkills wrote:
On October 01 2011 20:32 Ikonn wrote:
On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote: I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2
That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does
Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL)
Edit: I don't understand your point.
I guess we can speculate all we want but nobody really knows what is actually meant by "a new management system". So at this point all analogys are false ones.
Not false, but unproven, but no matter what the "management system" is they will have a bias. Now, as far as speculation goes we won't know exactly how it works until they tell us, but I have an inclination that this won't be a great thing. Hopefully it is, but KESPA has mishandled things before.
Kespa is also all we have. If it weren't for Kespa, we'd be 3 teams down, end of story. Whatever their faults in the past, they're doing their best to help BW right now. We're getting 1, maybe even 2 teams back. What do we have to complain about?
You're assuming that every other party would do worse. I personally don't see why if the 1 or 2 new teams were to come through couldn't manage themselves?
I suppose it's all about perspective. KeSPA has bungled things up with leta pp incident and jaedong free agency. Both problems were rectified. KeSPA is not looking to screw the BW scene over they want BW to succeed this could be seen as selfish or self preservationist but i'm seeing a common goal here. That's why i feel i can trust KeSPA to maybe not do the best job but at least do what they believe to be in the scene's best interest.
What did they do wrong in Jaedong free agency? Like those were the free agent rules, can't make an exception just because it's Jaedong. It's unfortunate Oz prehaps didn't pay him quite as much as he was worth (at the time) - but he still is very well paid i'm pretty sure.
It would be bad for the game if he was simply bought by a bigger team... after all, lack of competitiveness is surely partially why the disbanded teams are disbanded right? Making the gap between top and bottom smaller is the goal not bigger, and having Jaedong move almost to any team is gonna swing the balance around. If it's KT/SKT1 then PL would be basically decided beforehand, hence why it's very difficult for a player to be picked up in the free agency. It's basically discouraging teams from doing it at all, but especially for players like him.
And the pp thing. Rules are rules, it's maybe dumb and strict to follow it down to that. But it is a rule, and it was broken. Yeah it sucks but the hate has spread to people who don't even know what they are talking about based on a few unfortunate referee calls? It's silly. For us BW fans let's not get our statements mixed up and repeated by people wrongly. SC2 people see us hating on KeSPA for some minor things they don't even know about, and run with it.
When it comes to keeping the scene alive and going no one wants it more than them so we should be fully behind them this time and show your support and explain to non-understanders why it's beneficial. An organization like this isn't going to please everyone all the time and has to make some difficult decisions sometimes but when it comes to matters like ensuring the future of the game then we can support them.
On October 02 2011 00:51 The Black wrote: Just wait a minute.
As far as this thread is concerned, and as far as I know, no one knows for sure what this "new management" is or how KESpA will go about the new system. In this light, most of the comments here are not only moot, but downright juvenile, irresponsible, and erroneous. Juvenile because it looks like kids trying to compete who pisses longer without any real substance to the competition. Irresponsible because everyone is arguing based on speculation and personal interpretation, nothing more, while passing it on as actual fact. And erroneous because quite simply, unless there is clear unambiguous news about it, or it came from KESpA itself, therefore it is simply not true, not grounds for any discussion, and should be immediately arrested.
In fact, if TL finds balance whining and balance/game suggestions bannable, this is even more so. Balance whining/theorycraft at least are explicitly in the realm of fiction/suggestion. This one, discussing and prolonging the discussion based on the slightest bit of information, promotes misinformation, and goes at the very heart of BW/ESports, of how it operates on the ground. How could that kind of speculative discussion been allowed to get to 24 pages is beyond me. Those who participate in that ignorance mongering are worthy of a 2-day ban at least. Put this in perspective and you will actually see how erroneous and irresponsible activities like this are detrimental to everyone.
Let us wait for someone with clear, firsthand, impeccable knowledge on this matter to elucidate it first before we try to analyze and discuss it. Otherwise please stop spreading wrong information.
I think what you're saying here comes off as extremely condescending. I think people have a right to say what they think, and then if the Teamliquid mods find it ban-worthy, then so be it. I can't imagine BroodWar fans NOT feeling passionately about this issue, so comparing their concerns (however poorly miscommunicated they are) to 'kids trying to compete who pisses longer', is just throwing more kindling into the fire. I also would have phrased it "Children competing for the most extensive duration of urination" if I was trying to be a condescending sesquipedalian.
On October 02 2011 00:51 The Black wrote: Just wait a minute.
As far as this thread is concerned, and as far as I know, no one knows for sure ...Otherwise please stop spreading wrong information.
Start "no one knows for sure" but you declare it as "wrong information" at the end. So which is it? U sure it's wrong or you aren't sure? To me your post is just as ignorant as the others if not more, it's just a "let's ban everyone for 2 days" ranting with a sugar coating on top.
rumour US, rumor [ˈruːmə] n 1. a. information, often a mixture of truth and untruth, passed around verbally b. (in combination) a rumour-monger 2. gossip or hearsay 3. Archaic din or clamour 4. Obsolete fame or reputation
On October 02 2011 00:51 The Black wrote: Just wait a minute.
As far as this thread is concerned, and as far as I know, no one knows for sure what this "new management" is or how KESpA will go about the new system. In this light, most of the comments here are not only moot, but downright juvenile, irresponsible, and erroneous. Juvenile because it looks like kids trying to compete who pisses longer without any real substance to the competition. Irresponsible because everyone is arguing based on speculation and personal interpretation, nothing more, while passing it on as actual fact. And erroneous because quite simply, unless there is clear unambiguous news about it, or it came from KESpA itself, therefore it is simply not true, not grounds for any discussion, and should be immediately arrested.
In fact, if TL finds balance whining and balance/game suggestions bannable, this is even more so. Balance whining/theorycraft at least are explicitly in the realm of fiction/suggestion. This one, discussing and prolonging the discussion based on the slightest bit of information, promotes misinformation, and goes at the very heart of BW/ESports, of how it operates on the ground. How could that kind of speculative discussion been allowed to get to 24 pages is beyond me. Those who participate in that ignorance mongering are worthy of a 2-day ban at least. Put this in perspective and you will actually see how erroneous and irresponsible activities like this are detrimental to everyone.
Let us wait for someone with clear, firsthand, impeccable knowledge on this matter to elucidate it first before we try to analyze and discuss it. Otherwise please stop spreading wrong information.
I think what you're saying here comes off as extremely condescending. I think people have a right to say what they think, and then if the Teamliquid mods find it ban-worthy, then so be it. I can't imagine BroodWar fans NOT feeling passionately about this issue, so comparing their concerns (however poorly miscommunicated they are) to 'kids trying to compete who pisses longer', is just throwing more kindling into the fire. I also would have phrased it "Children competing for the most extensive duration of urination" if I was trying to be a condescending sesquipedalian.
Passion for BW is not the issue here. Correct information is. Please get that logic right.
This is the thread in its most basic sense: TL user translates from a chinese blogger something containing about KESpA stepping in with a system to keep BW alive. No one knows exactly what this system is. KESpA has not talked about it in detail, and no one in this thread has posted about it to make it factual. Yet, there is already 24 pages of statements how KESpA is evil (as seen above, rules are rules.), KESpA is the savior. KESpA is whatever. What is worse is that these statements breed into full blown discourse as if people know what they are talking about. imagine something as grave as knowing the real score about the future of professional BW. Then imagine people, without no facts whatsoever, just carelessly throwing all these wild arguments in the air about how this new system is, or will be. Now, how is that any less terrible than saying "Terran OP".
This is not even an issue of miscommunication as you seem to misunderstand. Review the posts, and you would think as if KESpA personally told these people what it plans to do. Please let's leave speculation out of here until we have solid facts to build on. And please by all means make sure you understand precisely what you are responding to before you respond to it, especially if you use words like "condescending" when that is what precisely NOT what the post is about.
On October 02 2011 00:51 The Black wrote: Just wait a minute.
As far as this thread is concerned, and as far as I know, no one knows for sure ...Otherwise please stop spreading wrong information.
Start "no one knows for sure" but you declare it as "wrong information" at the end. So which is it? U sure it's wrong or you aren't sure? To me your post is just as ignorant as the others if not more, it's just a "let's ban everyone for 2 days" ranting with a sugar coating on top.
rumour US, rumor [ˈruːmə] n 1. a. information, often a mixture of truth and untruth, passed around verbally b. (in combination) a rumour-monger 2. gossip or hearsay 3. Archaic din or clamour 4. Obsolete fame or reputation
Ok. Logic 101:
A: Let there be an unknown thing, "UNK123" B. Person X speculates: UNK123 is colored black
Now, did Person X say the right information? The wrong information? Absence of fact is always sympathetic to negation of fact than affirmation of it. And logic is never about exploring linguistic nuisance, but rather establishing FACT.
All I'm saying is stop all these rumors until we have facts. What do we have now? Nothing more than a translation from chinese of a blogger not even remotely associated with KESpA. The situation is volatile as it already is. No need to stir it up some more. A little restraint doesn't hurt at this time.
On October 02 2011 00:51 The Black wrote: Just wait a minute.
As far as this thread is concerned, and as far as I know, no one knows for sure ...Otherwise please stop spreading wrong information.
Start "no one knows for sure" but you declare it as "wrong information" at the end. So which is it? U sure it's wrong or you aren't sure? To me your post is just as ignorant as the others if not more, it's just a "let's ban everyone for 2 days" ranting with a sugar coating on top.
rumour US, rumor [ˈruːmə] n 1. a. information, often a mixture of truth and untruth, passed around verbally b. (in combination) a rumour-monger 2. gossip or hearsay 3. Archaic din or clamour 4. Obsolete fame or reputation
Ok. Logic 101:
A: Let there be an unknown thing, "UNK123" B. Person X speculates: UNK123 is colored black
Now, did Person X say the right information? The wrong information? Absence of fact is always sympathetic to negation of fact than affirmation of it. And logic is never about exploring linguistic nuisance, but rather establishing FACT.
Let's play a game. Pick the correct answer! 10 point question: A: Let there be an unknown thing, "UNK123" B. Person X speculates: UNK123 is colored black
Base on the information provided.
Now, did Person X say the right information? A. Yes B. No C. Maybe
The wrong information? A. Yes B. No C. Maybe
*tip: there is only 1 correct answer in this scenario.
A: Let there be an unknown thing, "UNK123" B. Person X speculates: UNK123 is colored black
Now, did Person X say the right information? The wrong information? Absence of fact is always sympathetic to negation of fact than affirmation of it. And logic is never about exploring linguistic nuisance, but rather establishing FACT.
Not really, Just because there isnt sufficient evidence to prove something isnt what it is, it doesnt mean it isnt that thing. The actual -logic- is that absence of fact isnt sympathetic to -any- particular outcome, its just absence of fact. Until UNK123 is proven to -not- be black, it may well be. Once -FACT- has been established (ie, that UNK123 is red or atleast not black), then you can make decisions based upon it.
To believe that something isnt, merely because you have seen no proof that would prove it so is actually the true Logic Blunder.
On October 02 2011 02:19 forumtext wrote: Let's play a game. Pick the correct answer! 10 point question: A: Let there be an unknown thing, "UNK123" B. Person X speculates: UNK123 is colored black
Base on the information provided.
Now, did Person X say the right information? A. Yes B. No C. Maybe
The wrong information? A. Yes B. No C. Maybe
*tip: there is only 1 correct answer in this scenario.
C and A. An opinion speculated as a fact is an incorrect statement.
On October 02 2011 02:19 forumtext wrote: Let's play a game. Pick the correct answer! 10 point question: A: Let there be an unknown thing, "UNK123" B. Person X speculates: UNK123 is colored black
Base on the information provided.
Now, did Person X say the right information? A. Yes B. No C. Maybe
The wrong information? A. Yes B. No C. Maybe
*tip: there is only 1 correct answer in this scenario.
C and A. An opinion speculated as a fact is an incorrect statement.
Sorry for derailing the thread, I am pretty sure Maybe is the only answer that is "correct" regardless of the result, because the only combinations are either 1A 2B or 1B 2A or 1C 2C, and since the first and second answer contradict eachother, with "only the information provided" only the 3rd answer is true? Also a lot of discoveries in this world started as a simple theory, if everyone dismiss them because we can't show facts first, we will still be in the stone age.
On October 02 2011 00:51 The Black wrote: Just wait a minute.
As far as this thread is concerned, and as far as I know, no one knows for sure what this "new management" is or how KESpA will go about the new system. In this light, most of the comments here are not only moot, but downright juvenile, irresponsible, and erroneous. Juvenile because it looks like kids trying to compete who pisses longer without any real substance to the competition. Irresponsible because everyone is arguing based on speculation and personal interpretation, nothing more, while passing it on as actual fact. And erroneous because quite simply, unless there is clear unambiguous news about it, or it came from KESpA itself, therefore it is simply not true, not grounds for any discussion, and should be immediately arrested.
In fact, if TL finds balance whining and balance/game suggestions bannable, this is even more so. Balance whining/theorycraft at least are explicitly in the realm of fiction/suggestion. This one, discussing and prolonging the discussion based on the slightest bit of information, promotes misinformation, and goes at the very heart of BW/ESports, of how it operates on the ground. How could that kind of speculative discussion been allowed to get to 24 pages is beyond me. Those who participate in that ignorance mongering are worthy of a 2-day ban at least. Put this in perspective and you will actually see how erroneous and irresponsible activities like this are detrimental to everyone.
Let us wait for someone with clear, firsthand, impeccable knowledge on this matter to elucidate it first before we try to analyze and discuss it. Otherwise please stop spreading wrong information.
I'm sorry but you have been registered for two days, what gives you the right to tell people what they can or can't speculate on? If the mods felt the thread had erroneous information they would close it. Maybe you have a very low opinion of TL but I don't see people being misguided by the information. The people who visit and participate in the BW forums are quite knowledgeable of what is happening within the Korean scene and having a place to FINALLY talk about some great developments going on is nothing but good. Calling for people to get bans for simply participating in discussion over the future of Korean e-sports is pretty laughable and your analogy to balance whining couldn't be more off the mark.
On October 02 2011 00:51 The Black wrote: Just wait a minute.
As far as this thread is concerned, and as far as I know, no one knows for sure what this "new management" is or how KESpA will go about the new system. In this light, most of the comments here are not only moot, but downright juvenile, irresponsible, and erroneous. Juvenile because it looks like kids trying to compete who pisses longer without any real substance to the competition. Irresponsible because everyone is arguing based on speculation and personal interpretation, nothing more, while passing it on as actual fact. And erroneous because quite simply, unless there is clear unambiguous news about it, or it came from KESpA itself, therefore it is simply not true, not grounds for any discussion, and should be immediately arrested.
In fact, if TL finds balance whining and balance/game suggestions bannable, this is even more so. Balance whining/theorycraft at least are explicitly in the realm of fiction/suggestion. This one, discussing and prolonging the discussion based on the slightest bit of information, promotes misinformation, and goes at the very heart of BW/ESports, of how it operates on the ground. How could that kind of speculative discussion been allowed to get to 24 pages is beyond me. Those who participate in that ignorance mongering are worthy of a 2-day ban at least. Put this in perspective and you will actually see how erroneous and irresponsible activities like this are detrimental to everyone.
Let us wait for someone with clear, firsthand, impeccable knowledge on this matter to elucidate it first before we try to analyze and discuss it. Otherwise please stop spreading wrong information.
I'm sorry but you have been registered for two days, what gives you the right to tell people what they can or can't speculate on? If the mods felt the thread had erroneous information they would close it. Maybe you have a very low opinion of TL but I don't see people being misguided by the information. The people who visit and participate in the BW forums are quite knowledgeable of what is happening within the Korean scene and having a place to FINALLY talk about some great developments going on is nothing but good. Calling for people to get bans for simply participating in discussion over the future of Korean e-sports is pretty laughable and your analogy to balance whining couldn't be more off the mark.
I'm sorry also but I may have been registered just yesterday or 100 years ago but it does not say anything about how long I've been following BW or how much I know. Anyone can speculate on anything, but never let it pass as a discussion of facts, that's what I'm saying. We really don't know at this point, and KESpA has not said anything to bring more things to light, so for all intents and purposes, all this talk about how KESpA will manage the new system is speculation to the remotest degree. Ok? And to all those who argue on logic, please get this - in logic, when something does not exist, it is assumed more that it is NOT TRUE than it is true. Whether or not it is discovered later on is another matter enirely. And the fact of the matter is, we do not know how KESpA will do about it, so please some complicating the issue with all the wild speculations.
On topic, god that's gotta be not good news, the update from Milkis
it sounds like good news for BW but at the same time i always feel worried each time its announced that KesPa will be giving themselves that extra little bit more power after every decision they make "in the right direction"
we'll just have to see it pans out. im expecting the worst to happen, but i would love to be wrong!
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.plu.cn/d/file/sc/note/2011-09-28/000b60b1dc037bbdb66a4b4c9a00c4c5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.plu.cn/d/file/sc/note/2011-09-28/0582948b4c60331af64000b192e869e9.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.plu.cn/d/file/sc/note/2011-09-28/5128d59d4f9f93499eb531e731e8c611.jpg)
Long live BW!!
Good news though.
I had such a blast watching Jangbi v Fantasy :D BW is such a fantastic game
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qbNQD.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wis.wcg.com/upload/attendee/E0020/SC-song.jpg)
